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Sociopolitical Issue thread

Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by sia » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:12 am

What a mess is happening with Brexit. I really hope EU will not be so desperate to try to make an example out of this and cut UK as soon as possible. Do you guys think supporters of exit will change their mind after pound losing value and foreing countries especially usa losing interest in investing in uk? Can you even change your mind now for example with another referendum of something? I mean the point of EU is the unified economy. We don't need to feel national pride or be united against common enemy. We just need agreements about education and farming and ecology so that trade is easier. If common people are blind enough to not realise that it is the job of people in Brussels to explain that. Didn't know Netherlands were so against EU. I thought them leaving EU would be pretty impossible because of intertwined borders it has with its neighbours.
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by Catallena » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:46 am

sia wrote:Didn't know Netherlands were so against EU. I thought them leaving EU would be pretty impossible because of intertwined borders it has with its neighbours.


Most Dutch people aren't necessarily against the EU in general, just the EU as it is currently functioning. They feel like they don't have enough influence, that the EU wastes it's time with laws that aren't their business, that it costs too much money (the cost of the monthly move from Brussels to Strasbourg and back is complained about a lot, and my pro-EU self agrees with that), that the borders should close and that no new members (read: poor East European countries or Turkey) should be able to join the EU because they cost a lot money but don't bring anything in.

My dear mother isn't against Europe working together, human rights laws or a union of nations but she dislikes all those things I just named and reads too much shit media so she, and many other people like her who feel this way, could be swayed to vote to leave if it ever came to a referendum.
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by sia » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:59 am

But still this are all issues that can be fixed with change of laws inside the Europe. Exiting Europe in this situation is kind of like having pneumonia and instead of taking medication trying to remove the lungs. I'm hoping a lot of issues like this will be addressed in the following months so you won't even have time to get to the referendum. And I get that us ex-socialist countries with fucked economies can feel like unnecessary garbage but we still bring cheaper workers and natural resources or something (I come from such a small country that I'm pretty sure we don't help with anything on the bright side we also don't use up that much money).
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by IckleMissMayhem » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:21 pm

sia wrote:But still this are all issues that can be fixed with change of laws inside the Europe. Exiting Europe in this situation is kind of like having pneumonia and instead of taking medication trying to remove the lungs.

Yup. Unfortunately 52% of people who voted yesterday don't agree with you us. :x :(
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by SquishPhan » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:37 pm

I have my issue with the EU as well, some which have been named already, but I will vote to remain if it ever really came to it. I hope the majority does so as well.
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by Catallena » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:47 pm

IckleMissMayhem wrote:
sia wrote:But still this are all issues that can be fixed with change of laws inside the Europe. Exiting Europe in this situation is kind of like having pneumonia and instead of taking medication trying to remove the lungs.

Yup. Unfortunately 52% of people who voted yesterday don't agree with you us. :x :(


Yep, I agree. Like even the biggest pro-EU person will acknowledge that the EU doesn't always work well or efficiently and that some changes need to be made. But apparently many people would rather get rid of the entire thing than fix problems. Especially older people that want to go back to the ~old times~ or to when there was only the EEC with only 12 European countries (minus Greece... no one wants Greece), because they don't want to acknowledge that we live in different times now.

'We did fine on our own back then, why wouldn't be we be able to do that now?' < My mom. Bless her, I guess. :roll:
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by sia » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:17 pm

Khm sorry for being sort of graphic. I still have feeling like this whole Brexit thing was something that blew out of proportion on accident because some political extremist were playing too hard on whole xenophobia and british imperialism cards that don't even have a lot to do with the whole issue.

This is kind of sad because in my country people were so proud that we were finally good enough to join the mighty EU :lol: But now we complain here just like everywhere else. It has its issues crisis happened, that whole thing with immigrants was one unorginased mess and people blame "those birocrats that sit in Brussels and roll around in money and have no idea what real world is like" or something :lol:
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by daphenaxa » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:22 am

I don't wanna be alarmist but really that brexit vote got me so fucking sad and angry. and it's kinda stupid because I knew they were gonna vote out. Like it was for sure seeing how the campaign unfolded and all.
But yeah idk the state of the world is honestly really scary at the moment. You have all the big democracies really facing the growth of far right populist parties. And it has been for a long time but now they are really powerful and really gaining momentum. With the economic crisis coming from Brexit and the added stress of the refugee crisis and the unfortunately real risk of EU disintegrating, well it doesn't look too good.
Plus you have Russia doing their thing in Ukraine, in Syria going against the US, government of Turkey looking scary too.
It was bizarre but when I saw the result I had a bit of a sense of doom honestly.
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by Zaz » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:47 am

daphenaxa wrote:I don't wanna be alarmist but really that brexit vote got me so fucking sad and angry. and it's kinda stupid because I knew they were gonna vote out. Like it was for sure seeing how the campaign unfolded and all.
But yeah idk the state of the world is honestly really scary at the moment. You have all the big democracies really facing the growth of far right populist parties. And it has been for a long time but now they are really powerful and really gaining momentum. With the economic crisis coming from Brexit and the added stress of the refugee crisis and the unfortunately real risk of EU disintegrating, well it doesn't look too good.
Plus you have Russia doing their thing in Ukraine, in Syria going against the US, government of Turkey looking scary too.
It was bizarre but when I saw the result I had a bit of a sense of doom honestly.


Things do look pretty bleak... I'm not much of an optimist, especially regarding politics, but i really hope that there will be a silver lining in the next few months. I just need a tiny bit of hope rn.

I'm really sad for the UK, but at the same time I hope that it'll cause the other countries in the EU to wake up, but I know that if we have the same referendum in my country it would probably lead to the same results...

I get that people are scared, tired and angry and that the EU's state (and lbr, the world) is really shitty atm but how can people be so easily persuaded that standing alone would be better?
How can parties who promote division and hatred have so much strengh, and gather more and more people, when we have witnessed countless times in history that it only leads to terrible things? EU was built to avoid those things ffs!

It feels so pointless, i mean it's downright absurd. Europe is such a positive and beautiful thing at its core. Sure, it's not working now, but it could be fantastic! It feels so wrong to imagine that the UK will really not be a part of the EU anymore.

It's time for a change, that's for sure, the old political and economical system doesn't work anymore, but we're never gonna build something better if every nation isolates itself.

"Try new things!"

Still, I know it's not much, but reading all your thoughts about brexit makes me realize that even though the situation rn is terrible, there is a sense of community, and that maybe something might come out of it sooner or later (hopefully sooner)
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by IckleMissMayhem » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:51 am

From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.


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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by Zaz » Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:03 am

IckleMissMayhem wrote:From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.


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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by teamug » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:06 am

warning: rant-y pissed off-y shouldn't be voicing opinions in this state-y

Delaying in enacting Article 50 also means that as the UK sorts its' goverment out, the rest of the EU countries struggle to keep their economies stable, citizens from rebelling, and as the EU focuses solely on not disintegrating, when the UK govt gets it act together, they (the UK) are in a much better position to hack out beneficial (for the UK) agreements with the EU than if they started the process next tuesday (now that most EU ministers aren't merkel-esque in their opinions). It's a good political move. At least the UK wasn't in the euro, things would be far worse. (someone mentioned something about a silver lining)

It's just crap all around. And Boris Johnson. blood boiling.
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by IckleMissMayhem » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:24 am

teamug wrote:warning: rant-y pissed off-y shouldn't be voicing opinions in this state-y

Delaying in enacting Article 50 also means that as the UK sorts its' goverment out, the rest of the EU countries struggle to keep their economies stable, citizens from rebelling, and as the EU focuses solely on not disintegrating, when the UK govt gets it act together, they (the UK) are in a much better position to hack out beneficial (for the UK) agreements with the EU than if they started the process next tuesday (now that most EU ministers aren't merkel-esque in their opinions). It's a good political move. At least the UK wasn't in the euro, things would be far worse. (someone mentioned something about a silver lining)

It's just crap all around. And Boris Johnson. blood boiling.
"Screw you guys, I ain't doing it" is about the only thing I've ever agreed with Cameron about. The leave campaigners got us into this shite, it's only fair they commit career suicide by either backing out of the whole thing, or by dragging the entire country through this VERY. BAD. MOVE.
Everything's fallen to pieces in five days. FIVE. DAYS. Is my trashcan politics-proof? cos I want it to be politics-proof.
And I need to know the ramifications WRT freedom of movement and right to work. Like, yesterday. :?


On the plus side though, someone fixed that fucking irritating-as-thrush Pooh/Piglet meme that makes me want to punch smug idiot Leave-voters on facebook. You know, the ones coming out with platitudes like "well, now we (meaning Remain voters) need to "work together to make this work for the best" Have they no concept of irony? So there's that:

"How did you vote?" said Pooh.

"Leave," said Piglet.

"I voted remain," said Pooh.

"Are we still friends?" said Piglet.

"Well to be honest, I'm not really sure" said Pooh, uncharacteristically thoughtfully. "It's a complex issue and not really one that can be reduced to seven lines of text for the purposes of a rather twee meme.

"On the one hand, a belief in unity, that we're stronger together, and that when we work as a team we both benefit, was one of the main reasons why I voted as I did.

"On the other hand, whilst I appreciate that, just as I did, you chose your vote based on what you thought was for the best, you have precipitated a huge financial collapse, destabilised my country, and threatened the future of my children, and it's hard for me to forget that, especially within a matter of hours.

"It's entirely possible that we're going to end up with a very much depleted Sixty Acre Wood, and while you might have no issue with the other animals who live here, you sided with those who did. As of yesterday, Kanga's had to go into hiding, Rabbit's marching to Christopher Robin's house demanding her immediate repatriation, and Tigger's had donkey shit shoved through his letterbox. While you might not have wanted that, you legitimised it, and decided that other animals' lives and security were collateral damage.

"It's true that you're still the small, massively overmarketed stuffed animal that you were before, but realistically I've seen another side of you that I hadn't before and it's going to take me some time to process that.

"And whenever I tried to discuss this with you beforehand, you either accused me of scaremongering or insisted on ignoring me and showing me pictures of cats instead.

"So rather than pressing me for assurances I'm in no position to make right now, I'd appreciate it if you could give me some space and allow me to get off my face on honey and grieve the future that I thought I had, which has been destroyed in the favour of the one that you've dragged me into.

"And if you don't, I'll post you to Cameron. All right?"
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by aralik » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:52 am

i don't particularly like evan but i was just stalking his twitter to see if i see anything/anyone interesting and found this tweet which is sorta what i've been saying this past weekend (only half-jokingly)

he has a few more tweets on the issue. i wish sometimes that d&p could also voice some opinions. (i'm right now overlooking my slight annoyance cuz i think evan only tweets these simply because he's directly affected by it as an immigrant/expat in the uk)
ugh.
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by IckleMissMayhem » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:49 pm

aralik wrote:i don't particularly like evan but i was just stalking his twitter to see if i see anything/anyone interesting and found this tweet which is sorta what i've been saying this past weekend (only half-jokingly)

"We" Evan? Huh. Count yourself lucky you're one of the very few who will barely be affected by the results of the EU Referendum.
Then we also need not just the right to vote, but to make it mandatory for all people to bother their arses to GO. VOTE.
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by mez29 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:07 am

Yeah, I never feel that comfortable about the 'ban old people from voting' thing. The arguments go both ways. Also I have the good fortune of knowing several people in that age bracket who are actually really progressive, and there are certainly a lot of young people around with dodgy neoliberal/rightwing views. It seems like a bit of a lazy way to categorise people and make excuses for their political leanings rather than trying to analyse those leanings critically and work out what's wrong with our society.

(also 65+ isn't old right? my dad is 66, i don't want to be the child of an old person)

I kind of think it would be better, not to just impose an arbitrary age-based limit, but instead to multiply people's voting power by their expected life expectancy. So if I'm expected to live another 65 years my vote would be worth 6.5 times who's only expected to live another ten years. Obviously it would be really difficult to implement, and based on the idea that the results of votes have permanent effect, but it seems a bit fairer to me.
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by teamug » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:43 am

Alternatively, how about, if you pay taxes, you get a vote. Ages 18+, sorry to all 16-17 year olds, basing this opinion on myself at 17.
I don't think some votes should have more worth than others, to me thats inches away from 'all people are equal only some are more equal'. Pensioners are the largest money source to most goverments, since they (govts) tend to ignore the obvious wealthy class as a source of tax income, so I do understand why their generation is fed up. My grandmother lived through a depression, ww2, recession, many good years, a depression, booming times, euro crisis. Not throwing down a 'feel sorry for their generation and their sacrifices' card. Nothing is an excuse for idiocy, or clemency from taking responsibility for actions taken/ votes made. But she paid taxes for 80 years and voted for 15 presidents, 22 parliaments (had to wiki and do much math). So on her behalf, though we would not have/ and did not vote similarly, I could never deny her a say in her life.
(edit- pensioners as a source of tax money, non corporate)
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by sunday » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:10 pm

mez29 wrote:Yeah, I never feel that comfortable about the 'ban old people from voting' thing. The arguments go both ways. Also I have the good fortune of knowing several people in that age bracket who are actually really progressive, and there are certainly a lot of young people around with dodgy neoliberal/rightwing views. It seems like a bit of a lazy way to categorise people and make excuses for their political leanings rather than trying to analyse those leanings critically and work out what's wrong with our society.

(also 65+ isn't old right? my dad is 66, i don't want to be the child of an old person)

I kind of think it would be better, not to just impose an arbitrary age-based limit, but instead to multiply people's voting power by their expected life expectancy. So if I'm expected to live another 65 years my vote would be worth 6.5 times who's only expected to live another ten years. Obviously it would be really difficult to implement, and based on the idea that the results of votes have permanent effect, but it seems a bit fairer to me.

65 definitely does not seem old to me either, I was shocked he gave that number haha. I guess it has to do with it being the retirement age but still, most 65 year olds have plenty of years left in them

I get what you mean with the whole life expectancy-related-vote thing and I don't think it's a bad idea, but unfortunately making some votes more valuable than others pretty much undermines the purpose of a democracy

I agree IckleMissMayhem: voting should just be made mandatory the same way it is in Australia. I wish we'd do that in NZ too. A lot of people who would vote left just can't be bothered getting their shit together to go vote. If they were forced to, things would be a lot more balanced
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by mez29 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:13 pm

:thanks: teamug yeah good points life experience is definitely something that needs valuing as well. I'm not sure about paying taxes as a benchmark though. What about those of us who are students, and postgraduate students who don't earn enough to pay tax (speaking for myself for the next three years there lol) and people who are employed in very low wage jobs? Using taxes as a threshold kind of makes the whole thing be based on money when it should really be based on human rights, which is an area that money ought not to come into at all as it just paves the way for fetid corporate capitalism.

i am quite drunk so please don't read that as hostile, i am entirely unable to judge the tone of my words rn


sunday wrote:I get what you mean with the whole life expectancy-related-vote thing and I don't think it's a bad idea, but unfortunately making some votes more valuable than others pretty much undermines the purpose of a democracy


Exactly, it would never work in practice. Just a thought experiment I guess.

How would compulsory voting work? What's the penalty for not voting? It sounds a bit authoritarian to me :shrug:
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by sunday » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:44 pm

mez29 wrote:How would compulsory voting work? What's the penalty for not voting? It sounds a bit authoritarian to me :shrug:

I think you get a fine, not jail time or anything extreme like that. The main argument against it would be it infringes on your liberty. But I feel like if you want to live in a democratic society and enjoy the benefits that come with it, then one of the requirements would be that you have to vote. Without getting too philosophical, we give up freedoms in democratic societies all the time because the benefits of giving them up outweigh the negatives of losing that freedom. I don't think forcing people to vote is a big deal, they can always spoil their ballot in protest if they hate all the options :shrug:
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by corn flakes » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:02 pm

In my native country is compulsory to vote, I live abroad and had to fill a document saying that I live too far away/have problems going to my nearest embassy to vote. They told me that otherwise I would have to pay a ginormous tax first thing after landing in my motherland; according to my mum. at her time, also they gave you a doc after voting and only with that you can apply for a job but now there should only be the tax. :shrug:

Here there is delusion regarding politics also with the events that are sadly the norm now "antipolitics" and extremists are in rise and this type of movements love when people become disinterested.

I still don't understand how trumps is doing so well in the usa, I used to follow john oliver but seriously:
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by teamug » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:41 pm

mez29 wrote::thanks: teamug yeah good points life experience is definitely something that needs valuing as well. I'm not sure about paying taxes as a benchmark though. What about those of us who are students, and postgraduate students who don't earn enough to pay tax (speaking for myself for the next three years there lol) and people who are employed in very low wage jobs? Using taxes as a threshold kind of makes the whole thing be based on money when it should really be based on human rights, which is an area that money ought not to come into at all as it just paves the way for fetid corporate capitalism.


Exactly. Realized hours after posting I had totally forgotten the years spent at university voting but not taxed (oops). Yeah, taxes not a criterion for voting rights. my bad.

compulsory voting: should be a thing. But I have to say, I am always dumbfounded that people are such lazy voters, personally I love voting, though tbh so far I usually end up disappointed but that hasn't dulled my enthusiasm yet.
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by IckleMissMayhem » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:48 am

mez29 wrote:
How would compulsory voting work? What's the penalty for not voting? It sounds a bit authoritarian to me :shrug:

I quite like the idea of unpaid community service, tbh. In a "you couldn't be arsed spending 10 minutes to vote and involve yourself in the running of the country, well guess what?" 8-)
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by arequian » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:38 am

Living in a country where voting is mandatory (the penalty is a fine), I have some points about it:

- It doesn't make more people vote. The participation in the national elections here is usually around 70-80%.

- A lot of people vote without really caring, so they are likely to follow some ridiculous reasoning (like that behind Brexit), as long there's a major party supporting it. It doesn't make them engage.

And answering some specific posts:
sunday wrote:But I feel like if you want to live in a democratic society and enjoy the benefits that come with it, then one of the requirements would be that you have to vote. Without getting too philosophical, we give up freedoms in democratic societies all the time because the benefits of giving them up outweigh the negatives of losing that freedom. I don't think forcing people to vote is a big deal, they can always spoil their ballot in protest if they hate all the options :shrug:


-We didn't choose to live in democratical society, and we rarely have a say in how we want it to work. And if “they can always spoil their ballot in protest”, what's the point in forcing them to go vote? They would just waste their time, and make the line longer for those who really want to vote.

IckleMissMayhem wrote:
mez29 wrote:
How would compulsory voting work? What's the penalty for not voting? It sounds a bit authoritarian to me :shrug:

I quite like the idea of unpaid community service, tbh. In a "you couldn't be arsed spending 10 minutes to vote and involve yourself in the running of the country, well guess what?" 8-)


-Where I live voting can easily take 4 hours, but maybe it's just that we have few “voting centres” (I don't know what they're called in english).

Just wanted to clarify that I think voting is really important and should be encouranged, I still don't understand why people aren't more involved with politics when their future might depend on a single election. It's just that I'm strongly against compulsory voting, as I think everyone should have the right to decide how they participate in the electoral system (or if they want to participate at all).
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Re: Sociopolitical Issue thread

PostPosted by opendoor » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:17 am

The Australian federal election was today, and they're counting the votes now. The Labor party are doing far better than expected, and the other major party, Liberals, are very not pleased. However, the Liberal-National coalition might still have enough seats to form majority government (though I hope not). We'll see.
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