alittledizzy wrote:coffeepenguin wrote:blueapple_x wrote:So I've been curious about this for a long time because everyone seems to have different definitions for certain words and oftentimes use things synonymously. I figured I'd post about it here.
How do you define fanservice and shipbaiting and queerbaiting? What makes these three things different from each other? How do they apply to D+P? How do they NOT apply to D+P? Please give specific examples if possible.yay definitions!
I like your definition of fanservice, but with the other two, I feel like it's not relevant if it's a joke or not. Here's my attempt:
Fanservice (in fiction/art/media/etc.) - intentionally including something or depicting something in a way that is known to please fans without it being necessary for the story/the message of the piece. Pretty much the same definition could be applied to youtubers, in Deppy's case, for example, everything PINOF for the last three years at least is fanservice, talking about ships and bands they don't particularly care about is fanservice. The thing with fanservice is people involved are generally open about admitting it is what it is.
Shipbaiting (in fiction and stuff) - intentionally hinting at a possibility of two (or more?) characters starting a relationship while never or only in the very end going through with it. Could be viewed as a form of fanservice, if the fans are ok with it and accept that the ship won't become canon. The way johnlock is treated by Sherlock writers is shipbaiting (what with many different characters consistently assuming they're a couple and them being described as perfect partners for each other). Usually denied by people involved in it. When applied to youtubers, it's kissy thumbnails, boyfriend tags, some jokes could be viewed as this. In Deppy's case, that "Dan and Phil sex tape" is shipbaiting, half of their early online interaction is shipbaiting if they were not together at the time, Dan and Tyler's collabs are somewhat shipbaity, imo, but I guess it's just how Tyler rolls. Voldy is shipbaiting af, if we are to believe the prank excuse (which I don't), because it doesn't contain any reference to it being fake in the video itself or in the description (like, if it was a prank, there would have been another video, or comment, or something for the reveal later, so in any case for some time that video would have been viewed as real without anything to immediately disprove it, that's textbook shipbaiting for me)
Queerbaiting (in fiction and stuff) - intentionally coding a character as not straight with subtext (clothes, hobbies, manner of speaking, plot devices) while never confirming or outright contradicting/denying it in the text or outside of it (for example, in interviews). Started a long time ago as a legitimate way of introducing LGBTQ+ characters that only a part of the audience would recognise as such and the homophobic bosses wouldn't notice, nowadays, as LGBTQ+ characters "earned" their place in the mainstream, is more about not recognising at the beginning that a character could be read as not straight, then realising it's a popular belief with the fans, playing it up for some time until, inevitably, disproving it and facing a well earned backlash. Teen Wolf is a perfect example with the way the possibility of a character being bisexual was handled (I mean, on some point, Stiles's being hit on by a girl he previously saw dating another girl, so he says he thought she liked girls. She replies that you can like both and that she also likes boys. Then she asks if Stiles likes girls, which he confirms, and also if he likes boys - cue his confused face and a cut. WTF). For me, queerbaiting is inherently harmful and can't ever be brushed off as a joke, because it's hard not being straight in our very heterosexist world as it is. With real people it's more complicated, but, for example, female authors of published gay erotica writing under male pseudonyms are queerbaiting. In Deppy's case, what Dan's doing with all his male attraction mentions is either him being bi or queerbaiting, I don't see any other possibility.
I'm not even gonna answer the question about defining the terms, because this is basically what I would have said. Fantastic post, all very well said, and very reflective of the actual definitions of those terms - complete with intention, which plays a huge part in each of them.
If we're looking at the grand picture here, so far it seems like everyone is saying essentially the same/similar things for the most part or things I agree with anyway.
coffeepenguin, you went pretty in depth with the definitions and I enjoyed reading it . The ones I gave were meant to be very basic and more directed to youtubers, so I guess I should've clarified that (sorry lol). When I said "it's not always obvious if it's a joke/fake for shipbaiting and queerbaiting, which I'd argue is relevant/applicable, I meant whoever is doing it is more or less trying to bait people into thinking one thing about a situation, that isn't actually true/isn't going to happen (hence my usage of joke/fake).
dizzy, I agree with the intention being a huge part of everything. Nowadays, I think deppy's intentions are fanservice. Whether or not each fan reads it that way is another story.
melon lord and nephilimcat, Thanks for giving specific examples of how you thought the definitions would hypothetically apply/not apply to D+P. You brought up some good points!