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Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by mez29 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:05 am

lurker wrote:i also think it's possible he added the "am i right brits" to point out he was using the word in the british sense.


Yes, I think it's certain that that's why he said it. I was actually pleasantly surprised by his nod to British English there—his vocabulary seems distinctly Americanised a lot of the time.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by RiriPandaHeart2 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:13 am

I freaking love cheeky Phil. :love1: :garbage:

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by Truth_or_cliche » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:15 am

Yikes I clearly need to clarify some things. I should be more specific and not assume people will understand my thought processes.

I am in no way implying that YouTube or YouNow has any influence on d&p's content, or how they interact with each other. When I said they ask them to do things they don't really want to do I meant things like telling their viewers to turn on notifications or be mindful of possible new viewers during the ls or something like that. Things that may be annoying but not really a big deal especially for people who sign your check. I did not mean things like "hey pretend to be friends or pretend to be boyfriends" or anything like that.

In regards to the buddy jokes: I hadn't yet seen the ls and jumped at the chance to discuss the topic as I was starting to think I was just imagining the tone. I had noticed it before and didn't immediately get the joke so I wasn't sure if there was even a joke to get. I said it was weird because if it was not a joke then I didn't understand the tonal shift. Probably should've used a different word tbh. For the record I don't think it's weird if it's a joke, just didn't realize it was a joke. Also, I shouldn't have used the "mocking their friendship" example. I was trying to show my thought process, but it was unnecessary and confusing as I immediately dismissed the idea myself when it first popped into my head as silly. I shouldn't have brought it up. So yeah I get the joke now (thanks papierklemmen and catallena) and no longer feel left out lol.

Sorry for this long ass unnecessary post, just wanted to clarify some things!
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by alittledizzy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:18 am

Dan and Phil are incredibly mocking in how they address their relationship on camera: mate, bro, etc. Bestest buddy and 'obviously Phil' just seem to fit right in that category to me, the only difference being that it is Dan humor alone untempered by Phil giggling beside him. And because for me personally what this forum represents is a place to share all my thoughts about things I read wildly into, I'll totally bite and say:

I think it's because they're feeling less rigid in that identity and more comfortable expressing amusement with it. It feels more like an inside joke between them that they are aware we're in on, as opposed to than genuine discomfort or malicious/defensive sarcasm. (With allowance for the fact that Dan doing almost anything that involves addressing an audience reads as a touch defensive.)

Anyway, timestamps to come in a bit, but I wanted to make that point separately.

Truth_or_cliche wrote:I am in no way implying that YouTube or YouNow has any influence on d&p's content, or how they interact with each other. When I said they ask them to do things they don't really want to do I meant things like telling their viewers to turn on notifications or be mindful of possible new viewers during the ls or something like that. Things that may be annoying but not really a big deal especially for people who sign your check.


I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's correct. We know that younow wanted Dan and Phil to go subscription only for replays and their answer was to start streaming on tumblr so that people weren't reliant on younow for replays. Now they're streaming on youtube which further undercuts younows profits. To me that indicates clearly that Dan and Phil do not bow to any younow dictates. I'm quite sure younow understands that Dan and Phil are the biggest draws to the site, and Dan and Phil have many other options for streaming if they wanted to. Younow needs the Dan and Phil checks, Dan and Phil don't need the younow ones.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by 000dia000 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:31 am

Regarding Dan saying f*g - I think in the context he used it does not warrant him to be held responsible due to the context. A f*ggot also refers to a "bundle of sticks" so if Phil accidentally returns to his Northern roots and let it slip, take it easy on him. They're hardly using offensive slurs and at this point, it's pretty obvious how mindful of their audience they are being.

Regarding Dan eating salad, I know many people are juping to veganism and vegetarianism, but I think it's much more simpler than that-he's just eating healthily. I personally eat vegan meals a lot, but I'm not a vegan, it's just healthy and based upon personal preference. I don't like when people use personal experience to prove a point because it may not apply to deppy, but other people I've met are the same While he may eventually give veganism a chance, I personally believe he's making the "small steps" instead of going in completely cold turkey.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by isabella » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:51 am

000dia000 wrote:Regarding Dan saying f*g - I think in the context he used it does not warrant him to be held responsible due to the context. A f*ggot also refers to a "bundle of sticks" so if Phil accidentally returns to his Northern roots and let it slip, take it easy on him. They're hardly using offensive slurs and at this point, it's pretty obvious how mindful of their audience they are being.


agreed with this. as an lgbt american viewer, which is the assumed audience that would be upset by his usage of that word, i was taken aback at first because it's just not a word used in polite conversation in america and it's actually quite harsh and taboo to say in our context. so yeah i was shocked for about 2 seconds but i also have lived in england for nearly 2 years now so i know the context and it took me all of 2 seconds to be like "oh okay cool" and brush it off. i don't think him using a word that is culturally innocent for him should be anything to berate him about. he's just talking off the top of his head a lot of the time in liveshows, which he's tried to tell us before, so it's not like he was thinking about every possible meaning of every word he said. i think it wouldn't hurt for him to keep in mind that that word has other meanings in the future, but it's not like he's talking about cigarettes every week anyways lol they care a lot about us and the way they're perceived so i trust they aren't trying to hurt us or be offensive. tl;dr i'm not upset but it did shock me for a hot second
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by sentinel » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:55 am

Jesus what's with the pressure on this guy to be vegan? Let him eat whatever he wants, what's next - demand his meaningful core message? I feel like the phandom pressures Dan and Phil into things that they are not necessarily into but since it's the trendy thing they feel like they should do it anyway.

About the 'fag' thing - in British English it's not an offensive word and he quite clearly didn't mean it as "ohh good thing we didn't light up a gay guy" so I literally don't understand the discussion???

The discourse is just killing me these days
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by pilotlight » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:55 am

About calling cigarettes fags:
I mean, give his audience some credit. Even if someone had never heard the word used like that before, a quick google search would clear things up in like 10 seconds. If someone's still offended after that (or can't be bothered to even think further than "omg a bad word") it's on them, not Dan.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by alittledizzy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:58 am

sentinel wrote:Jesus what's with the pressure on this guy to be vegan? Let him eat whatever he wants, what's next - demand his meaningful core message? I feel like the phandom pressures Dan and Phil into things that they are not necessarily into but since it's the trendy thing they feel like they should do it anyway.


I mean if we're making demands on them based on what is trendy can we go back to the 'get a dog' one at least because @ replies to their tweets always being full of pictures of dogs was very pleasant. I am impressionable young thirtysomething person who needs to be catered to, please. With puppies.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by isabella » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:58 am

sentinel wrote:Jesus what's with the pressure on this guy to be vegan? Let him eat whatever he wants, what's next - demand his meaningful core message? I feel like the phandom pressures Dan and Phil into things that they are not necessarily into but since it's the trendy thing they feel like they should do it anyway.

About the 'fag' thing - in British English it's not an offensive word and he quite clearly didn't mean it as "ohh good thing we didn't light up a gay guy" so I literally don't understand the discussion???

The discourse is just killing me these days


i agree with you but i think you have to understand how hurtful and culturally significant that term is for lgbt people in america to understand why it's a discussion. if you spend your whole life being bullied for being gay/bi/pan and being called a f*g as part of that or even just grow up with that cultural context for the word, it's understandable that you might not be neutral about hearing it in a place you didn't expect to.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by fancybum » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:58 am

sentinel where did anybody pressure Dan to be vegan? Please provide quotes.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by secretagentphan » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:03 am

pilotlight wrote:About calling cigarettes fags:
I mean, give his audience some credit. Even if someone had never heard the word used like that before, a quick google search would clear things up in like 10 seconds. If someone's still offended after that (or can't be bothered to even think further than "omg a bad word") it's on them, not Dan.

I agree with this and I'm not going to get anymore involved in the language discourse because :roll:

If Dan is going vegetarian or at least cutting down on meat that's such a better idea. Completely cutting out animal products to eating steak on and off is so extreme it sets you up for failure. I feel like he's trying it for ethical reasons more than health (because not eating meat doesn't automatically mean healthier and you have to be careful with that shit) but either way that's up to him. He can eat whatever he wants and doesn't have to share if he doesn't want to.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by lerien » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:08 am

sentinel wrote: I feel like the phandom pressures Dan and Phil into things that they are not necessarily into but since it's the trendy thing they feel like they should do it anyway.


I don't really think they feel pressured to do anything tbh, at least regarding their personal lifestyle that's why they don't tell us anything.
Regarding Dan and veganism, I agree with 000dia000, he might not have gone full cold turkey again but only tried to eat less meat and/or fish but I do think we are just blowing it out of proportion, in context it may have just been him saying he doesn't eat that much fish anymore.
And knowing some (not all but some) vegans who are prone to verbally assault when you're not thinking exactly like them while arbouring the vegan label... well, I can't blame him for not saying anything if he wants to take baby steps.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by chloek88 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:33 am

i found dan's responses about sherlock and yuri on ice very intriguing, so apologies for my overanalysis below.

at 19:20, when asked about bbc sherlock he says "i definitely prefer the first two seasons, after the third season...I don't like...mary... i love the actress, quite like the character, i just don't like the idea of the character..." he says it all very bashfully and mumblingly and is hiding his face behind his hand. he drops johnlock all the time as his go-to easy throwaway ship to mention whenever shipping comes up, but he's always done so pretty mockingly, so i never took him seriously as an actual johnlock shipper.

butttt...he says he likes amanda abbington and he likes mary's character, so we know he isn't opposed to mary, but rather, what kind of figure she represents in the show. mary is pretty universally seen as the main obstacle hindering john and sherlock's relationship, so to say he likes her character but doesn't like the idea of her character... to me, this can only read as him saying mary's great but he just doesn't like the idea of a female character being imposed upon/forced between two close men whose sexualities are ambiguous and whose relationship is unclear but very intimate and blurs all boundaries between work partners, flatmates, best friends, and lovers. interesting, and leads me to believe he actually does ship johnlock. (he did say he's wading up to his nipples in the fandom)

16:03 his reaction to "are you experiencing victuuri withdrawals" is to duck out of camera and make an anguished noise that sounds like he's heaving vomit or has been punched in the gut, and then come back on screen, nonchalantly say "yeah, i guess, good anime" and promptly segue into talking about another anime.

ever since he wrongly predicted that yoi would just be homoerotic and not go full-gay, he's been completely silent about the show (other than acknowledging that he's been keeping up with it.)
he hasn't said a single word about the gay romance, even when people were waiting with baited breath during the liveshow after victuuri's first kiss. much like after evan peters' character dramatically reappeared in this season's AHS with a gay sex scene, he didn't say a single word about that.

so his reaction to the victuuri question was so weird. i get the sense he's not thrilled about the show. maybe he just isn't comfortable discussing such a widely shipped male romance, and one that's legitimate and canon? maybe the noise of anguish was genuine anguish over loving/missing the romance? doubtful though, since he was so dismissive and nonchalant about it immediately afterwards. maybe he hates the show, but if that were the case, why would he finish watching it? maybe he's just fed up of hearing about it, or tiring of his fans talking about/asking him about it? maybe he's uncomfortable with a gay romance being so widely featured and flamboyant in an anime?
in his october 25 liveshow though (around 21:30), he went on a mini-rant about japanese anime's lacking representation and gayness still being treated like some weird fetish with no regular gay characters/serious gay romances. so, it seems like yoi took exactly the kind of route he hoped it would take? idk...

sidenotes: cackled at his pizza-man-stripper bit at around 10 mins in, thrilled he mentioned meryl streep's speech at the golden globes (wish he hadn't backed off from the subject so quickly tho), and was so charmed by his embarrassment/bashfulness when the gas men were in his kitchen.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by trashqueen » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:46 am

isabella wrote:
sentinel wrote:Jesus what's with the pressure on this guy to be vegan? Let him eat whatever he wants, what's next - demand his meaningful core message? I feel like the phandom pressures Dan and Phil into things that they are not necessarily into but since it's the trendy thing they feel like they should do it anyway.

About the 'fag' thing - in British English it's not an offensive word and he quite clearly didn't mean it as "ohh good thing we didn't light up a gay guy" so I literally don't understand the discussion???

The discourse is just killing me these days


i agree with you but i think you have to understand how hurtful and culturally significant that term is for lgbt people in america to understand why it's a discussion. if you spend your whole life being bullied for being gay/bi/pan and being called a f*g as part of that or even just grow up with that cultural context for the word, it's understandable that you might not be neutral about hearing it in a place you didn't expect to.


i understand the feeling but usamericans need to understand that they are not the center of the universe and that the rest of us do not live our lives catering to them, i genuinely don't think it's that traumatizing to be taken aback for the use of what to you is a slur for the three seconds it takes you to realize that the person who said it didn't mean it that way bc shock horror other countries exist.

this is my perspective as a native spanish speaker, we have so many dialects that you can say pretty much anything and have it be offensive somewhere else (i'm not even exaggerating: https://youtu.be/TKKCVctGuc, and that's not even 10% of it), if we can deal with it you can do it to

re: bestest friend, i also categorized it along with the bro jokes, i don't see it as over explaining or mocking the audience, if they are mocking something it's themselves

re: spring 2017, idk if something in particular is gonna happen but i think when we get there looking back at deppy as they are now it's gonna feel like ages ago, to me the biggest 2017 change its gonna be the relationship they have we the audience (going by the recent changes we've seen)

edit: i need to finish reading before posting smh

re: yoi reaction, yes, i also think it's weird how after it went full gay he started talking about it a lot less, idk what to make of it, i think it's possible he's just sick of hearing about it, i liked it just fine but i also ended up exhausted of seeing it everywhere

re: sherlock comment, god, i wish he had talked more about his sherlock opinion because i also interpreted what he said about mary that way, and i hated it, if he genuinely thinks that mary existing is the reason johnlock is not canon i'm gonna have to punch him, johnlock isn't canon because steven moffat is a queerbaity piece of shit, stop blaming female characters existing for shitty showrunning decisions
Last edited by trashqueen on Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by alittledizzy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:46 am

chloek88 wrote:i found dan's responses about sherlock and yuri on ice very intriguing, so apologies for my overanalysis below.

at 19:20, when asked about bbc sherlock he says "i definitely prefer the first two seasons, after the third season...I don't like...mary... i love the actress, quite like the character, i just don't like the idea of the character..." he says it all very bashfully and mumblingly and is hiding his face behind his hand. he drops johnlock all the time as his go-to easy throwaway ship to mention whenever shipping comes up, but he's always done so pretty mockingly, so i never took him seriously as an actual johnlock shipper.

butttt...he says he likes amanda abbington and he likes mary's character, so we know he isn't opposed to mary, but rather, what kind of figure she represents in the show. mary is pretty universally seen as the main obstacle hindering john and sherlock's relationship, so to say he likes her character but doesn't like the idea of her character... to me, this can only read as him saying mary's great but he just doesn't like the idea of a female character being imposed upon/forced between two close men whose sexualities are ambiguous and whose relationship is unclear but very intimate and blurs all boundaries between work partners, flatmates, best friends, and lovers. interesting, and leads me to believe he actually does ship johnlock. (he did say he's wading up to his nipples in the fandom)

16:03 his reaction to "are you experiencing victuuri withdrawals" is to duck out of camera and make an anguished noise that sounds like he's heaving vomit or has been punched in the gut, and then come back on screen, nonchalantly say "yeah, i guess, good anime" and promptly segue into talking about another anime.

ever since he wrongly predicted that yoi would just be homoerotic and not go full-gay, he's been completely silent about the show (other than acknowledging that he's been keeping up with it.)
he hasn't said a single word about the gay romance, even when people were waiting with baited breath during the liveshow after victuuri's first kiss. much like after evan peters' character dramatically reappeared in this season's AHS with a gay sex scene, he didn't say a single word about that.

so his reaction to the victuuri question was so weird. i get the sense he's not thrilled about the show. maybe he just isn't comfortable discussing such a widely shipped male romance, and one that's legitimate and canon? maybe the noise of anguish was genuine anguish over loving/missing the romance? doubtful though, since he was so dismissive and nonchalant about it immediately afterwards. maybe he hates the show, but if that were the case, why would he finish watching it? maybe he's just fed up of hearing about it, or tiring of his fans talking about/asking him about it? maybe he's uncomfortable with a gay romance being so widely featured and flamboyant in an anime?
in his october 25 liveshow though (around 21:30), he went on a mini-rant about japanese anime's lacking representation and gayness still being treated like some weird fetish with no regular gay characters/serious gay romances. so, it seems like yoi took exactly the kind of route he hoped it would take? idk...

sidenotes: cackled at his pizza-man-stripper bit at around 10 mins in, thrilled he mentioned meryl streep's speech at the golden globes (wish he hadn't backed off from the subject so quickly tho), and was so charmed by his embarrassment/bashfulness when the gas men were in his kitchen.


Ooh now this is the kind of post-liveshow analysis I love.

I wondered if his reluctance to talk about YOI and Sherlock/expanding on his opinions on Mary had to do with the awareness that any opinion he gives he will be eternally bound to.

If he mentions passionately liking the YOI ship or gives controversial opinions on what he doesn't like then he will just be encouraging the throngs of people to continue spamming his tweets, asks, and comments about that forevermore. I suspect he doesn't mind that as much when it's things he's not passionate about or his audience isn't passionate about. Like, he'll talk about The Walking Dead on end - but no one's out there making TWD phanart by the masses or asking him and Phil to roleplay TWD characters. If I were him I'd be wary about activating fanbases with potential to overlap with my existing one.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by lerien » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:13 am

alittledizzy wrote:I wondered if his reluctance to talk about YOI and Sherlock/expanding on his opinions on Mary had to do with the awareness that any opinion he gives he will be eternally bound to.


Definitely agreeing with you there. His sound of anguish (?) when asked about "victuuri withdrawals" was totally the sound of him not wanting to answer honestly the question. At least, it seemed that way to me: he had/has a lot in his head about the subject, probably hasn't finished deciphering it yet so he just gave a generic answer ("good anime, I guess") because it's not very clear even for himself and he doesn't want to create too much attention/a shitstorm about it.

Regarding Sherlock and his opinion on Mary, I kind of see what he's going for? Like he thinks she had been added by the writers/showrunners for the "no-homo" garantee between John and Sherlock - she totally was. Plus, Moffat tends to characterize his female characters badly (he seems to only ever show them as castrating and menacing to men's virility or something, that's really annoying cf. the Woman, Missy, River Song...). So I can understand that as much as the actress and the character can be great, the reason why she exists in the first place and the trope she is characterized from are quite off putting.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by zvezdochka » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:16 am

alittledizzy wrote:I think it's because they're feeling less rigid in that identity and more comfortable expressing amusement with it.

Not that anyone needs confirmation on this, but as someone who wasn't following D&P for a year, I was very surprised to see how relaxed they became :D

Wow, chloek88, thanks for your input on the LS :respekt2:. Not to dawn on YOI's future, but maybe what Dan doesn't quite like about it is that THE GAYNESS can easily become its main feature instead of character development, strong storyline, etc. Hannah Hart tried to explain this trend by saying she wants to play interesting characters that happen to be gay, not gay characters. Am I making sense? Upsetting YOI's fans is the last thing I want to do.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by LeftHandedism » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:19 am

On Dan and food:

Whether it's vegetarianism or veganism or eating less meat, whether it's for moral reasons or health reasons or just as an experiment, Dan seems to have mostly :salad: on his plate these days! I intend to continue in my important role of :salad: stalker and report back on any sightings. :D

(Posted largely to use the new emoji--thanks Oqua! :2thumbsup:)
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by Catallena » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:39 am

Dying at this fake woke and blatant US centric discussion over the word fag. Asking others to adjust their language because 'BUT IN AMERICA!!1' :roll:

silverwinter wrote:
papierklemmen wrote:
silverwinter wrote:okay. and for the record, while i specifically knew what he was talking about and i specifically wasn't offended by his words, tons of queer american (or from anywhere else) kids watching that liveshow could have been. he didn't bother to elaborate at all to make sure people knew what he really meant, and i think that as an entertainer, he needs to be aware of his words and of who his audience is


not to start a language wank, but your post is a bit ironic since quite a number of (gay, bi and even straight) people here in idb also expressed that they're uncomfortable with the word "queer" being used when referring to lgbt community, because somewhere it's still considered a slur.


the reason i use the word queer and not that other one is bc the former is a commonly reclaimed word in the community that most people who are online a lot are aware of it. if dan said that word, everyone would know what he was referring to. that other word is still considered a derogatory slur in most places, has not been reclaimed, and non-english people aren't necessarily aware that it can be used in a different sense.

again, all i'm saying is that dan should've been more conscious of what he was saying as someone with a young audience

and captainspacegoat yeah i basically don't disagree with you there. i'm not saying that anyone should attack dan or anything, i don't think he did anything immensely wrong, and his not being straight is definitely a good thing to keep in mind with all this. my point is that he said something thoughtless and that he needs to be more conscious in the future


Q*eer is also still considered a derogatory slur in many places??? Some people reclaiming it and waving history books around does not change that. You're being oddly selective and Dan has nothing to be conscious about when he's literally just speaking his own language.


Anyway back to the hill I've personally decided to die on this week; Dan's weird behavior while clarifying 'we' and talking about their domestic Christmas presents.

To me, the tone in which he spoke during those parts was not his usual sarcastic tone, if it was it wouldn't make my skin crawl and I'd actually appreciate it because Dan is not nearly enough of sarcastic bastard these days. But it's a specific annoyed tone that he tends to use in liveshows that I can't stand, hence me not usually watching them. Like I'm glad he isn't being an asshole about it like in 2012, but it doesn't make it any less obnoxious and unnecessary to me. The buddy and bro talk is cute when they do it together because then it actually mocks bro culture, while Dan gave more vibes of mocking the viewer for no good reason. Again that's probably just me, I'm bitter and hate fun. Let's move on.

His reluctance to talk about YOI... maybe he simply wasn't as blown away by it as the rest of the audience but he isn't sure how to say it. I feel he's been pretty meh about it every time he's been asked when it was still airing.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by sentinel » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:46 am

fancybum wrote:sentinel where did anybody pressure Dan to be vegan? Please provide quotes.

The 4 million tweets/tumblr posts about how he ~broke~ being vegan. By then I was out of the phandom for a good year and even I caught on the drama on my dash. He went from being the saviour to being called trash because he said he was going try veganism and then decided he wasn't really into it. In his diss track the lumps together "you were vegan for three weeks I’m so impressed by your clear moral integrity" with tumblr saying he is "problematique" - the fact that every move he makes is taken as a statement. Him giving up on veganism was treated like he personally betrayed people. And let's not forget that when Phil said it's not for him everyone acted all disappointed. I'm on mobile so I can't be bothered to try and use twitters shitty mobile website but if you search "Dan not vegan" I'm sure enough a lot of the tweets will read "why is Dan not vegan"
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by lurker » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:47 am

alittledizzy wrote:
chloek88 wrote:i found dan's responses about sherlock and yuri on ice very intriguing, so apologies for my overanalysis below.

at 19:20, when asked about bbc sherlock he says "i definitely prefer the first two seasons, after the third season...I don't like...mary... i love the actress, quite like the character, i just don't like the idea of the character..." he says it all very bashfully and mumblingly and is hiding his face behind his hand. he drops johnlock all the time as his go-to easy throwaway ship to mention whenever shipping comes up, but he's always done so pretty mockingly, so i never took him seriously as an actual johnlock shipper.

butttt...he says he likes amanda abbington and he likes mary's character, so we know he isn't opposed to mary, but rather, what kind of figure she represents in the show. mary is pretty universally seen as the main obstacle hindering john and sherlock's relationship, so to say he likes her character but doesn't like the idea of her character... to me, this can only read as him saying mary's great but he just doesn't like the idea of a female character being imposed upon/forced between two close men whose sexualities are ambiguous and whose relationship is unclear but very intimate and blurs all boundaries between work partners, flatmates, best friends, and lovers. interesting, and leads me to believe he actually does ship johnlock. (he did say he's wading up to his nipples in the fandom)

16:03 his reaction to "are you experiencing victuuri withdrawals" is to duck out of camera and make an anguished noise that sounds like he's heaving vomit or has been punched in the gut, and then come back on screen, nonchalantly say "yeah, i guess, good anime" and promptly segue into talking about another anime.

ever since he wrongly predicted that yoi would just be homoerotic and not go full-gay, he's been completely silent about the show (other than acknowledging that he's been keeping up with it.)
he hasn't said a single word about the gay romance, even when people were waiting with baited breath during the liveshow after victuuri's first kiss. much like after evan peters' character dramatically reappeared in this season's AHS with a gay sex scene, he didn't say a single word about that.

so his reaction to the victuuri question was so weird. i get the sense he's not thrilled about the show. maybe he just isn't comfortable discussing such a widely shipped male romance, and one that's legitimate and canon? maybe the noise of anguish was genuine anguish over loving/missing the romance? doubtful though, since he was so dismissive and nonchalant about it immediately afterwards. maybe he hates the show, but if that were the case, why would he finish watching it? maybe he's just fed up of hearing about it, or tiring of his fans talking about/asking him about it? maybe he's uncomfortable with a gay romance being so widely featured and flamboyant in an anime?
in his october 25 liveshow though (around 21:30), he went on a mini-rant about japanese anime's lacking representation and gayness still being treated like some weird fetish with no regular gay characters/serious gay romances. so, it seems like yoi took exactly the kind of route he hoped it would take? idk...

sidenotes: cackled at his pizza-man-stripper bit at around 10 mins in, thrilled he mentioned meryl streep's speech at the golden globes (wish he hadn't backed off from the subject so quickly tho), and was so charmed by his embarrassment/bashfulness when the gas men were in his kitchen.


Ooh now this is the kind of post-liveshow analysis I love.

I wondered if his reluctance to talk about YOI and Sherlock/expanding on his opinions on Mary had to do with the awareness that any opinion he gives he will be eternally bound to.

If he mentions passionately liking the YOI ship or gives controversial opinions on what he doesn't like then he will just be encouraging the throngs of people to continue spamming his tweets, asks, and comments about that forevermore. I suspect he doesn't mind that as much when it's things he's not passionate about or his audience isn't passionate about. Like, he'll talk about The Walking Dead on end - but no one's out there making phan TWD phanart by the masses or asking him and Phil to roleplay TWD characters. If I were him I'd be wary about activating fanbases with potential to overlap with my existing one.


i don't feel qualified to talk about his sherlock opinions as i have never watched the series, but i had some thoughts about yoi. (i feel like since yesterday i've gone from "lurker" to full-on "i post every five minutes" someone save me from myself i'm heavily procrastinating.) in general, i feel like people asking him to talk about yoi in the chat are more hoping for him to gush about it than to give a review, which he is probably aware of and which in turn might be a reason for him not to do it. the main thing being discussed is of course viktor and yuuri and it seems plausible to say that whatever he says about their relationship will, to some extent, be projected back onto him. plus, correct me if i'm wrong or you perceived it differently, but i also feel like dan has always been somewhat careful about being seen as a shipper, or about people thinking he watches something for a ship, so if this is the case, him not really talking about yoi might be for the same reason, i.e. not wanting people to think he watched it for the relationship alone. however this doesn't really fit in with his comments about angst and drama in sports anime (how no one watches free for the swimming or how phil is craving more drama in haikyuu) -- it would seem perfectly natural to make a reference back to this.

then, it might be a matter of wanting to give a "qualified reasoning" about why something is good, which is an impression i get a lot with dan. again, i'm interested in hearing other people's impressions, but i feel like when he mentions something he likes, he doesn't just want to say "ahhh i loved this so much" or something along the lines, but state what exactly he liked and why. but with respect to the story itself, there's in my opinion not a lot to discuss. that doesn't mean i think yoi wasn't cleverly written! however, there's nothing much controversial or left open for discussion -- the way i perceived it, the anime tells a story (and in my opinion does so beautifully), but it's somewhat straightforward and gradual. however you might...

...discuss yoi with respect to representation (what was shown, what wasn't shown, for which possible reasons that might be, if one would have hoped for even more, what impact the show might have, etc.). of course it would be interesting to hear his opinions on this, especially tying back to what he expected from it in the beginning -- but that would mean directly addressing/discussing lgbt issues.

edit after i've been reading the posts that appeared while i was still typing:

zvezdochka wrote:Not to dawn on YOI's future, but maybe what Dan doesn't quite like about it is that THE GAYNESS can easily become its main feature instead of character development, strong storyline, etc. Hannah Hart tried to explain this trend by saying she wants to play interesting characters that happen to be gay, not gay characters. Am I making sense? Upsetting YOI's fans is the last thing I want to do.


i understand what you mean, but i don't really feel that it's the case with yoi per se, seeing that the main character's orientations aren't even addressed in the show and (at least i felt like) a lot of the focus was in fact on the (three) main characters' character development. however i think what you said is still a good point because i feel like what many people asking about yoi in the chat would want him to adress is *dan voice* "the gayness", not a 5-minute interpretation of characters and storyline.
Last edited by lurker on Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by lilMango » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:49 am

Catallena wrote:To me, the tone in which he spoke during those parts was not his usual sarcastic tone, if it was it wouldn't make my skin crawl and I'd actually appreciate it because Dan is not nearly enough of sarcastic bastard these days. But it's a specific annoyed tone that he tends to use in liveshows that I can't stand, hence me not usually watching them. Like I'm glad he isn't being an asshole about it like in 2012, but it doesn't make it any less obnoxious and unnecessary to me. The buddy and bro talk is cute when they do it together because then it actually mocks bro culture, while Dan gave more vibes of mocking the viewer for no good reason. Again that's probably just me, I'm bitter and hate fun. Let's move on.


I felt the same way, and found it weird that people took it as an adorable thing... I don't know, it didn't come off to me as a moment that should be saved and cherished and fangirled over, it seemed like an (obviously necessary) jab. That being said, it didn't really affect me negatively. I can't expect anything else at this point. What is he gonna do, say "Phil is my boyfriend and he knows me well"?
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by fancybum » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:59 am

sentinel wrote:
fancybum wrote:sentinel where did anybody pressure Dan to be vegan? Please provide quotes.

The 4 million tweets/tumblr posts about how he ~broke~ being vegan. By then I was out of the phandom for a good year and even I caught on the drama on my dash. He went from being the saviour to being called trash because he said he was going try veganism and then decided he wasn't really into it. In his diss track the lumps together "you were vegan for three weeks I’m so impressed by your clear moral integrity" with tumblr saying he is "problematique" - the fact that every move he makes is taken as a statement. Him giving up on veganism was treated like he personally betrayed people. And let's not forget that when Phil said it's not for him everyone acted all disappointed. I'm on mobile so I can't be bothered to try and use twitters shitty mobile website but if you search "Dan not vegan" I'm sure enough a lot of the tweets will read "why is Dan not vegan"

Oh ok I thought you were talking about the vegan discussion that just happened here. "The discourse these days is killing me", was that unrelated to the 'jesus christ why are people pressuring Dan to be vegan'? Did you mean the discourse over the entirety of the internet? Or..? Because I haven't seen anybody lately getting weird about Dan and veganism, here or anywhere. But the past intense reactions could be why, if he is lessening his meat consumption these days, he's being more lowkey about it. (And taking an interest in his own words and discussing the likelihood of what he might be up to these days based on them isn't applying pressure, if that discussion did contribute at all to your reaction).
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

PostPosted by alittledizzy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:02 am

lilMango wrote:
Catallena wrote:To me, the tone in which he spoke during those parts was not his usual sarcastic tone, if it was it wouldn't make my skin crawl and I'd actually appreciate it because Dan is not nearly enough of sarcastic bastard these days. But it's a specific annoyed tone that he tends to use in liveshows that I can't stand, hence me not usually watching them. Like I'm glad he isn't being an asshole about it like in 2012, but it doesn't make it any less obnoxious and unnecessary to me. The buddy and bro talk is cute when they do it together because then it actually mocks bro culture, while Dan gave more vibes of mocking the viewer for no good reason. Again that's probably just me, I'm bitter and hate fun. Let's move on.


I felt the same way, and found it weird that people took it as an adorable thing... I don't know, it didn't come off to me as a moment that should be saved and cherished and fangirled over, it seemed like an (obviously necessary) jab. That being said, it didn't really affect me negatively. I can't expect anything else at this point. What is he gonna do, say "Phil is my boyfriend and he knows me well"?


I didn't take it as 'adorable' exactly - I just took it in the same vein as the bro-mate-joking. Dan's tone seeming different fits with me the same way Dan's tone is always different when it's just Dan instead of Dan with Phil. (And the same way Phil's tone is different when it's just him and he's not interacting with Dan.)

Definitely didn't read it as a jab toward anything but the concept that their ~friendship branding~ is something they maintain with a wink and a nod.
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