TV show thread

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Re: TV show thread

Post by teamug » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:53 pm

mio wrote: I agree so hard on the unfinished plot lines/ending!! I think they set it up to have room for a third season but it got cancelled. afaik they are making a sequel in comic book form right now and this might be the firsts comic I will actually get into because I NEED TO KNOW :o

The fanfic btw is Force over Distance by cleanwhiteroom, it's not online anymore but I'll send it too you if you're interested! It diverges from the series somewhere during S2 and makes for a brilliant wrap up of all the storylines and goes in depth about stuff that only got touched on in the show. So it can kind of be read as an alternative ending, def gave me the closure I needed after the canon one!

How is Dark Matter? it has been on my "maybe to-watch list" for a while now...
Did not know about the comic, very interested in that. The ending just cut short every plot line with no thought, left me annoyed at the whole series a bit.

Dark Matter, love it so much. Strong female characters, a somewhat original concept (amnesiac space pirates), but the production, acting, plot, all done very well. What I like best, the actors (characters) are 'normal', 'realistic', there is an actual interesting story driving the plot, not sexy minimally dressed people debating ethics. (no judgement for the latter kind of shows, watch many myself, but it is nice there are all sorts of shows available).



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Re: TV show thread

Post by kusunoki masashige » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:36 pm

mio wrote:
teamug wrote:
mio wrote:Just a shot in the dark, but are there any Stargate fans here?

Tbh I could never get too deep into SG1 or Atlantis but Stargate Universe owns my soul. I originally watched it to be able to read a certain fanfic (which was totally worth it and still one of the best fics ever written imo) and ended up falling in love. I am in the process of rewatching right now and my poor heart. This show is just SO GOOD. The characters, the plot twists, the mind-fuck... I just wish I had somebody to rant with.
I watched sg universe (last year i think) and I thought it was fantastic, well, almost, there was so much more I wanted them to explore (plot and character wise), and the ending (not a fan), but the acting was great, and I just enjoyed watching it. btw what fanfic?

The stargate saga was a bit unknown to me, but I do remember seeing some of the eariliest episodes on tv (dawn of time), and the other series didn't interest me, but stargate universe clicked, probs because I had just finished Dark Matter and Killjoys at the time and this popped up somewhere.

Immersed in Asian drama at the moment, but you've inspired me to watch the series again asap.
I agree so hard on the unfinished plot lines/ending!! I think they set it up to have room for a third season but it got cancelled. afaik they are making a sequel in comic book form right now and this might be the firsts comic I will actually get into because I NEED TO KNOW :o

The fanfic btw is Force over Distance by cleanwhiteroom, it's not online anymore but I'll send it too you if you're interested! It diverges from the series somewhere during S2 and makes for a brilliant wrap up of all the storylines and goes in depth about stuff that only got touched on in the show. So it can kind of be read as an alternative ending, def gave me the closure I needed after the canon one!

How is Dark Matter? it has been on my "maybe to-watch list" for a while now...
Aaah, I thought I was alone with my love for Stargate Universe!!
SG1 and Atlantis was something I sometimes watched when it was on TV, but never really got into it. Universe on the other hand…brilliant characters, great plot - it's really a shame it only lasted two seasons. I'm still bitter that SG1 with its black-and-white characters and repetitive storylines got a bazillion seasons and specials and stuff and a show with so much potential got axed so soon…
Mio, could you maybe send me the fanfic too?? I need closure..

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Re: TV show thread

Post by mio » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:12 am

So, Sherlock.

I feel uncool bringing this up again (after all on tumblr it's already a meme that this show is as relevant as supernatural) but damn. This escalated quickly. After that shitstorm of a final episode the whole fandom crashed and burned in a day. In the tags you can still see the excitement pre-airing with all the fake or not-fake early leaks and speculations and then ...well. This is the kind of fandom drama I live for.

There are apparently some people who still believe there will be a secret forth episode just randomly airing next sunday because of the "people always stop after three" quote. I mean, that would be kind of brilliant and also a little bit of the "making tv history" they promised, but they still couldn't make up for all the problematic stuff they pulled this season like
the treatment of all the female characters, especially having another non-straight woman who's an evil emotionless mastermind, bringing up Irene Adler as love interest AGAIN although she identifies as gay and using her for the awkward no-homo discussion, also once again the whole world revolves around Sherlock Holmes, obviously, and his bromance with his flatmate that is obviously the center of the universe because everybody including his wife is willing to step aside and literally die for said bromance. Oh but yeah, still no homo of couse, because even Sherlock Holmes would need a wife to be completed. I don't even ship Johnlock I'm just bitter about the sexism and heteronormativity.

Honorable mentions to reducing Mary and Molly to props that are used to give the male leads angst, casually using rape for shock value, throwing everything out of the window that made the show enjoyable in the first place and instead adding more plot holes than should be humanly possible in a three episode season. Oh but they gave us domestic bliss in the last scene that had no prior development but oh well. What is character development anyway? Characters can get over stuff inbetween episodes, no problem.
And while I kind of liked the second episode for the entertainment factor (there was a case! and deductions! and a creepy villain!) the other two were just desperately trying to up the stakes and didnt make much sense in the end.

...also everytime somebody mentions the making TV history I get the Yuri on ice opening stuck in my head help
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Re: TV show thread

Post by teamug » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:24 am

Sherlock. Overall I was disappointed in this season, too many "now why would they do that" moments for me. Esp Mary and John.
Mary
I still don't understand the concept behind her death. What needed to happen in the plot for her to die. John blaming Sherlock for it? the not talking to eachother? Just why, why? I liked John and Mary as a couple in the show, I also really wanted more of Mary, a kickass super spy, but all we got was her traveling around, hiding out in a damp church cellar, and walking a dog. So much potential wasted, Irene was showcased more than Mary, and I think Mary was a much more important character to the development of the story (plot) and the growth of Sherlock and John. And why did the (older) lady spy lead Sherlock and co to the aquarium, and why kill S? why not just run off?
John
How the frack did he not figure out what Mycroft was doing in the 3rd ep, with the whom to kill scene. Seriously, at least to me it was obvious 5 seconds into his speech. John was ooc the entire season. I didn't agree that John would have blamed S and cut off all communication, and why not examine S himself (the ambulance and Molly), who are these friends he keeps shipping the baby off to? Idk, there was something 'off' about John. He was always as flawed character, like everyone else, but this time 'round, I found him to be self-centered, arrogant, and mean.
I didn't know the show runners said something about this season making "tv history" because I saw nothing that special happening, unexpected, but not mindblowing.

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Re: TV show thread

Post by bee » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:57 pm

Oh great finally someplace I can complain about Sherlock, nobody I know even watches it. I relate to your opinions so much re:
Mary, John, female characters, Molly, heteronormativity
. I'm still almost angry about the finale. And confused, like, was I high watching the episodes before that and liking the show so much.
Mary's death was awful and almost cheesy? What the hell? And then in the second ep John beating up Sherlock. Like. There's so much misery between all these people. Molly. Mycroft. Aaarggh.
And I'm sorry it's just so fake to bring in a completely new character in the LAST EPISODE who then explains the whole show? Like, lol, we tricked you, wasn't that great. Anything you thought you were watching before this was bullshit, ha-ha.
Also who needs logic in this show. Plotholes are great. Massive leaps of probability too. Logic is for losers. Sherlock is all about impossible superhero-like powers and mindcontrol now. Who cares if it fits together.
Am I dreaming? Is anything real?
Am I insane to have seen it as a slowburn romance? I didn't go; oh wow Sherlock and John should get together, I just really believed they were going there, slowly. And their insistence that they weren't together was to not spoil anything. Apparently I'm delusional. Great. And also a fan that the writers like to shit on because OF COURSE they weren't going to go there and OF COURSE I'm some fetishizing woman that just wanted them to fuck. No thank you that definitely wasn't the case.
Maybe interactions between creators and audience shouldn't exist at all. In cases like this I really can't see the upside of it.
Also the explicitly gay/bi villains in the last episode was especially jarring to me. Like wow did you really not notice doing that? Why??
I did like parts of the season, some scenes were great, and was into the second episode the most. But after the final episode I don't think I can watch the show again, it's like it burned out my enjoyment of the story as a whole completely. For now at least. Maybe I can look at the final episode again someday if I'm over my upset and frankly bafflement.

About the making tv history thing: burning out your extremely popular show in one episode is pretty epic though.
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Re: TV show thread

Post by teamug » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:46 am

bee wrote:About the making tv history thing: burning out your extremely popular show in one episode is pretty epic though.
Lost. How I Met Your Mother. :D

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Re: TV show thread

Post by papierklemmen » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:10 pm

bee wrote: Am I insane to have seen it as a slowburn romance? I didn't go; oh wow Sherlock and John should get together, I just really believed they were going there, slowly. And their insistence that they weren't together was to not spoil anything. Apparently I'm delusional. Great. And also a fan that the writers like to shit on because OF COURSE they weren't going to go there and OF COURSE I'm some fetishizing woman that just wanted them to fuck. No thank you that definitely wasn't the case.
i've seen this narrative online a lot it and i'm sorry but it's kinda baffling to me. it might have been sad at first, but it's spun out of control, with all the "we've been lied to" and "this is all a conspiracy" accusations, especially aimed at the actual gay showrunner, mark gatiss.
as everyone, i was seeing it as a slowburn romance in seasons 1-2; it looked like all the gay jokes were equally balanced out by occasional serious moments which could be taken as hints (irene comparing her feelings for sherlock with john's etc.). HOWEVER. the show grew in popularity, the fan's theories reached the top and to clarify things the showrunners CLEARLY stated that it's NOT going to happen MULTIPLE times - that's when it was the time to let it go. as everyone should have. they confirmed a lot of times that "yes, we lie a lot, but NOT IN THIS CASE. NOT ABOUT THIS". this is not a case of two real people being in the closet and possibly hiding it from the real world - it's a written show, the characters don't exist, they are fictional, it all depends on the writers, and when the writers are saying "we are not writing it as a gay romance" - it's not a wink wink, we're hiding a surprise situation, it's a clear statement.

as a lot of people, i was angry about the queerbaiting that they put out and never actually acknowledged - that is extremelly shitty. the showrunners are definitely to blame for the fact that the whole situation reached this level - when they started to address the issue and clear up that the show is not going there, it was about time to stop the gay jokes and fanservice, which they didn't... and yeah, their attitude to fans is beyond repulsive. the best case would have been if they were honest and said "we put in a lot of gay jokes because we thought it would be funny and modern, we didn't know what queerbaiting was and how people would take it, now we know and we apologize, we fucked up" or something along those lines.
however, if by the season 4 you were still expecting that johnlock is happening: it's on you, not on the writers. they said it's not. you didn't listen.

the amount of homophobic crap that mark gatiss is now getting from the deluded viewers, the death threats, the rape threats, the over-the-top dramatic thinkpieces on how it was all an anti-gay BBC conspiracy...it's disgusting. especially considering that the "curly dad" moffat is being left out of the narrative, because, i guess, no one expected anything from him cause he's straight? fucking hell.
that said, the season was utter and complete shit and while the show's quality took a nosedive back in season 3, this season it seriously jumped the shark with the secret sister/mindcontrol/explosions/other mambo jumbo. the treatment of women on the show has always been atrocious so the mary thing didn't even surprise me. steven moffat ruined all his shows with his delusions of grandeur and continues to do so.

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Re: TV show thread

Post by teamug » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:53 pm

papierklemmen wrote:however, if by the season 4 you were still expecting that johnlock is happening: it's on you, not on the writers. they said it's not. you didn't listen.
This requires an audience that is aware that showrunners made comments on the direction of the story. I didn't, hadn't heard an opinion by the writers or anyone involved in the show (on the subject of romance between John and Sherlock specifically), so all I had to go on was what the show offered. And like you said, the baiting continued, so johnlock was "open to interpretation". What was available was source material (Doyle) and whatever the episodes gave me.
Personally, johnlock was always an option, but John was married, then there was a child, he maintained that he was 'not gay' (nothing about being straight), but anything can happen, it's a tv show. My only 'anti' argument was Doyle, but again, tv show.
All I want is to enjoy the show I watch, I don't want to have to research the real meaning and backstory behind every word that is said, every action/choice that a character makes. And it annoys me that these showrunners felt the need to clarify, why not express yourself through the show in the first place.
Wow, such emotion from me, didn't realize it bothered me this much actually. Glad to get it off my chest.

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Re: TV show thread

Post by papierklemmen » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:40 pm

teamug wrote: Personally, johnlock was always an option, but John was married, then there was a child, he maintained that he was 'not gay' (nothing about being straight), but anything can happen, it's a tv show. My only 'anti' argument was Doyle, but again, tv show.
i get it, but in this case it's more of a "if that happened, it'd be cool" kind of situation, isn't it? because as you mentioned, the show maintained that john wasn't "gay", john was married, they had a child etc. i'm talking about people who are genuinely pissed because they believed it was 100% GOING there, despite all the obstacles or whatever put in their way and despite the answers that the showrunners gave. people who were very invested in this idea monitored what they showerunners were saying, but very much ignored every answer given because they didn't like it. the "anything can happen" is a healthy approach, but the anything part basically means literally anything - they could have also very explicitely hooked up irene and sherlock and bring in john's second wife, but they didn't.
Gatiss: “He explicitly says he is not interested. Doesn’t mean he couldn’t be. Doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with it. I’m a gay man. This is not an issue. But we’ve explicitly said this is not going to happen… No matter how much we lie about other things, that this show is going to culminate in Martin and Benedict going off into the sunset together. They are not going to do it. And if people want to write whatever they like and have a great time extrapolating that’s absolutely fine. But there is no hidden or exposed agenda. We’re not trying to f*ck with people’s heads. Not trying to insult anybody or make any kind of issue out of it, there’s nothing there. It’s just our show and that’s what these characters are like. If people want to do that on websites absolutely fine. But there’s nothing there.
a lot of fans are now calling mark an "honorary straight" for not making their ship canon. way to go, guys.

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Re: TV show thread

Post by teamug » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:56 pm

I get your point. But unless a viewer is aware of the comments made by the writers, the 'johnlock possibility' is real, because the show planted the seed and watered and fed and nurtured that seed. Irene said she was gay in the show, that is what the writers gave viewers, that 'fact' I took as canon in this fanon of Doyles'. So to me, Irene and Sherlock wouldn't have made sense, but that's just my opinion. Johns' sexuality on the show is 'not gay', many years ago, I would have taken this to mean that he is straight, but it doesn't, I may be closer the middle age than youth, but the internet has taught me many things. The behind the scenes context the writers handed out (about not going there romantically), I'm actually getting worked up right now, was not available to me, but I felt there was something there between Sherlock and John. I know I'm not the only one, but even those viewers that had this special access to the writers designs on the characters, some of them also 'saw' something between S&J, why would these viewers take the writers' words at face value when the 'something there' continued in the series. If something is there (s1-s2), and remains there (s3-s4?), then it is there for that person, even if someone says it's not. Honestly, even if I had known of the writers intentions, I don't think it wouldn have made a difference, I'd still have 'seen' what I saw, the potential for johnlock, because the show made it that way. (edit- I swear I have a point, but I'm not expressing it well (at all))

And the people that were very invested and are now apocalyptically pissed at the writers, well, I don't know what the say, 'they are responsible for their own actions, they don't get to blame the writers for what they say ', 'astronomically conceited', 'no one should be bullied', 'they need to get a grip, ffs it's a tv show' (she says in post defending her shipping), just a few thoughts that crossed my mind, wait a minute, John gets married again? This is why I need to read the damn books, all of them, not just a few of the more popular ones.

I'm sorry I sound aggressive papierklemmen, you're saying things very politely and sensibly, and making a good point, but my lizard brain is on edge and all I hear is "it's all in your head, the paperclip thinks you're a crazy delusional shipper lady" (that's supposed to lighten the mood) Sorry.

And the Gatiss quote, I'm not about to have a go at him, but as for "there's nothing there", maybe write that into the script. No one should have to disclose their sexuality, their relationships, even fictional characters based on fictional characters, but the writers did bring it up in the first place. Why mention it, if they themselves won't extrapolate?

edit: What is wrong with me, I sound like I just want to pick a fight. And I think we sort of agree on most things.

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Re: TV show thread

Post by bee » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:42 pm

Under a spoiler because I'm not really sure anymore what is and what isn't
teamug I relate to a lot of what you're saying and you're more coherent in your points than I can be. I get the lizard brain feeling and I'm definitely not seeking to pick a fight either.

I read "not gay" as "bi/pan/otherwise" because I could relate to the way that was handled in the show. And so was all the other stuff. It just made complete sense to me. Maybe that's my fault but yeah. And the creator comments, I also only discovered those last year when I sought out the fandom. I'd been watching the show since the beginning and I'd already formed my thoughts and feelings by then (also a fan of Sherlock Holmes before the show).
The creator comments were also so much of "But also we lie all the time, so". So anything you then deny or confirm, really doesn't matter? That made it possible to read into it so much.

To have the characters stay ambiguous is one thing, but to then give the villains 'permission' to not be that..? That's really upsetting to me. I don't understand they weren't seeing this.
I'm probably preaching to the choir but I'm talking through this also to make myself deal with it.

And a big part of my upset in the end is also the Eurus plot. Because it so enhances this feeling of being played with, not being taken seriously. To have the show explained in a last episode in this way, that's so completely different than all the episoded before that.

I should probably take a step back at one point and let it go. But my involvement in the show as a whole (it really wasn't all about Johnlock to me) is difficult to let go of.
To be clear I really don't subscribe to harassing the creators and anyone involved in the show. And attacking Mark Gatiss' sexuality really is creepy. That's just logical to me but since I feel like I'm kind of being placed in this corner of harassing emotional fans I felt like I should clarify (maybe I'm really not, then all right, we're on the same page).
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Re: TV show thread

Post by papierklemmen » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:09 pm

The creator comments were also so much of "But also we lie all the time, so". So anything you then deny or confirm, really doesn't matter? That made it possible to read into it so much.
the comment of mark's that i brought up was addressing this. he said that as much as they lie about other stuff, they are not lying about this and there's no secret agenda.
well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, which is fine! there's a lot of debate on whether the word of god counts as part of canon, and personally i think - sadly yes. not everyone agrees. but there are cases when the word of god actually clears up the confusion, like the 1970 movie "the private life of sherlock holmes". the director said that he wanted to make holmes gay and regretted that he didn't make it more ovbvious. or other instances when the creators had to explain that the relationship was subtext (xena/gabriel) etc.

but, as with all the fiction out there, i subscribe to "this is my own interpretation and for me it's canon!" when it comes to outcomes that i don't like, because i then can choose to view it the way i want and be satisfied. everyone's interpretations are valid and they all make sense. however i believe that writers are not obliged to go the way their fans are demanding.

personally, i thought the ending sequence (mary blessing the two, them raising a child together, not having any romantic interests etc.) was pretty ambiguous and enough for the audience to come to their own conclusions. plus, moffat did say that sherlock is a love story that doesn't involve sex. they love each other immensely, they care about each other, they are best friends, but they are not involved romantically. there's that too.
but my experience with the overly demanding sherlock fanbase soured everything about the ship anyway, so maybe that's why i get an eye twitch whenever i see someone talk about their disappointment. btw bee, i didn't think you were "one of those", i just talked generally about the atmosphere in the fandom.

as for, bi/pan/etc. - unfortunately, i noticed that the "i'm not gay" on tumblr and "i'm not gay" everywhere else mean different things. the "i'm not gay" outside of tumblr usually means "i'm straight" (cue markiplier clarifying that "when i said i'm not gay, i also obviously meant i'm not bisexual, i don't like dicks, i'm straight, sorry everyone" :roll:).
whatever, honestly 3-4 season were such a shitshow that i'm happy to close this chapter, hopefully for good. let's just hope that we'll get a proper non-straight sherlock holmes adaptation soon enough and forget about this mess.

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Re: TV show thread

Post by teamug » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:28 pm

bee wrote:I should probably take a step back at one point and let it go. But my involvement in the show as a whole (it really wasn't all about Johnlock to me) is difficult to let go of.
Yes. I've made myself sound like all this is about johnlock, when there is so much more that I loved about the show, the characters of John and Sherlock, putting all "potential relationship twaddle" aside, I loved these characters, and the modern take, Mrs Hudson, the comedy, I truly liked this show. There were major issues, nothing is perfect, but the feeling of the show made it a favorite. Johnlock was on a backburner, it wasn't what brought me back, it wasn't what made me want more episodes. But with this last season, I feel like I have to keep justifying my feelings and sometimes I feel condescended to (a general tone, not here) because I didn't see the 'accepted truth' of John and Sherlock. And I feel like throwing my hands in the air, because I'm made to seem stupid, naive and delusional. And that is hurtful, when what I feel is what the show gave me to feel. Maybe I did misunderstand a lot of the show then, but...it didn't seem that way at the time I was watching.
The show may have not ended on a cliffhanger to most, but it feels that way to me. I have so many thoughts, I can't keep track of them.
Now I sound melodramatic.

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Re: TV show thread

Post by teamug » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:01 pm

papierklemmen wrote:or other instances when the creators had to explain that the relationship was subtext (xena/gabriel) etc.
Subtext for what? I feel like the ground is disappearing beneath me with all this new insight. I spent my teen years with Xena, so this is sure to disappoint.

Just wondering- you say during s1-2 you saw John and Sherlock as a slowburn romance, was it the showrunners comments that then persuaded you otherwise? and had you not delved so far into the fandom (i assume) and the "word of god" from moffat and gatiss had not reached you, do you think you would have maintained the "possibility" or "potential" for a romantic relationship between J&S?

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Re: TV show thread

Post by bee » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:29 pm

papierklemmen wrote:
The creator comments were also so much of "But also we lie all the time, so". So anything you then deny or confirm, really doesn't matter? That made it possible to read into it so much.
the comment of mark's that i brought up was addressing this. he said that as much as they lie about other stuff, they are not lying about this and there's no secret agenda.
Hmm yeah you know I did read that but my brain immediately gets suspicious of the wording (Ben and Martin?). That is a part of being over-invested fans maybe (and I've learned now I definitely was/am that), but I also feel like those double layers and subtext and stuff like that is so much part of the show itself. That that inherently played a part in how the fans handle this show (looking for clues! solving puzzles!). That was the show to me, looking for clues, looking for quirky details in the background, for nudges to other Sherlock adaptations. That was the fun for me. So that definitely plays a role in the fan's (and at least mine personally) dealing with creator comments on the show I think.
I can see how, as with the 'not gay' as read by straight people, this all can be read in two ways. The problem is I think, that not-straight people are much more sensitive to subtext and hints without spelling things out. Or avoiding certain answers while giving the answer for those 'in the know'. That's difficult to switch off if you feel like something is there. And I can't fault LGBT+ people reading too much into their comments (and the show). And I get the feeling that the majority upset with the show in the end, are LGBT+ people. And maybe too hopeful and invested in a certain perspective, but yeah.. It's just really unfortunate.
teamug wrote:
bee wrote:I should probably take a step back at one point and let it go. But my involvement in the show as a whole (it really wasn't all about Johnlock to me) is difficult to let go of.
Yes. I've made myself sound like all this is about johnlock, when there is so much more that I loved about the show, the characters of John and Sherlock, putting all "potential relationship twaddle" aside, I loved these characters, and the modern take, Mrs Hudson, the comedy, I truly liked this show. There were major issues, nothing is perfect, but the feeling of the show made it a favorite. Johnlock was on a backburner, it wasn't what brought me back, it wasn't what made me want more episodes. But with this last season, I feel like I have to keep justifying my feelings and sometimes I feel condescended to (a general tone, not here) because I didn't see the 'accepted truth' of John and Sherlock. And I feel like throwing my hands in the air, because I'm made to seem stupid, naive and delusional. And that is hurtful, when what I feel is what the show gave me to feel. Maybe I did misunderstand a lot of the show then, but...it didn't seem that way at the time I was watching.
The show may have not ended on a cliffhanger to most, but it feels that way to me. I have so many thoughts, I can't keep track of them.
Now I sound melodramatic.
'Stupid, naive and delusional' yeah same.. I also don't really understand this feeling with season 4 completely yet and why it felt that way.

Maybe they did try to leave things open a little to avoid something like that (because I see the sort of open ending), but they wrote themselves in this corner that it wasn't possible anymore or they didn't see it. Idk
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Re: TV show thread

Post by papierklemmen » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:01 pm

teamug wrote:
papierklemmen wrote:or other instances when the creators had to explain that the relationship was subtext (xena/gabriel) etc.
Subtext for what? I feel like the ground is disappearing beneath me with all this new insight. I spent my teen years with Xena, so this is sure to disappoint.

Just wondering- you say during s1-2 you saw John and Sherlock as a slowburn romance, was it the showrunners comments that then persuaded you otherwise? and had you not delved so far into the fandom (i assume) and the "word of god" from moffat and gatiss had not reached you, do you think you would have maintained the "possibility" or "potential" for a romantic relationship between J&S?
subtext = xena and gabriel were actually in love with each other (i didn't watch later seasons, so maybe it was confirmed and that's why you're confused and thought i meant something else? because early on they were just defined as "friends")

in my case it was definitely the comments. i would have probably kept thinking it was still possible, but in season 3 when mary came in i would have gone with the "sherlock's unrequited feelings" angle. or the "incompatible sexualities" angle. tbh i wasn't that invested in the show, so it's suprirsing how easily their take on it and the fandom's reactions reached me.

johnlock certainly wasn't why i liked the show either. i liked season 1-2 because it had a good balance of everything. "detecting", comedy, drama, friendship, cool shots. season 3-4, i thought, were pretensious hollywood crap. where did the detective stories go? why did everything have to be BIG, IMPORTANT, NEVER SEEN BEFORE? the plot turned to ridiculous twists like secret assassins, secret sisters... so, thankfully because of all that, i had no problem letting it go.

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Re: TV show thread

Post by teamug » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:07 pm

papierklemmen wrote:subtext = xena and gabriel were actually in love with each other (i didn't watch later seasons, so maybe it was confirmed and that's why you're confused and thought i meant something else? because early on they were just defined as "friends")

so, thankfully because of all that, i had no problem letting it go.
xena- ok. yeah, their relationship was obvious, so for a moment I thought I was loosing touch with reality. :lol:

as for letting go...all I want.

thanks for chatting. I did dip into the sherlock fandom this season, and it was very... passionate and had a lot of mixed messages.

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Re: TV show thread

Post by papierklemmen » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:14 pm

it was a cool chat, thank you too!
i hope you'll be able to let it go.

btw bryony had a massive rant on twitter re: sherlock's finale :lol: i'm surprised she was part of the tjlc!
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Re: TV show thread

Post by teamug » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:43 pm

papierklemmen wrote: btw bryony had a massive rant on twitter re: sherlock's finale :lol: i'm surprised she was part of the tjlc!
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alrighty then. Well, I hope she felt better after getting all that out of her.
I had to google tjlc. :facepalm:
and even then the acronym didn't make sense, the THE didn't register and johnlock is a single word but both j and l are used, and I ended up staring at all these " the JOHNLOCK conspiracy" phrases and not getting it. Took an embarrassingly long time.

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Re: TV show thread

Post by Skylar » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:42 pm

hey just wanted to know, does anyone on this forum watch rick and morty? i recently binge watched the whole 2 seasons and i'm in love with it
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Re: TV show thread

Post by bee » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:01 pm

I liked the Sherlock chat too, brought me some perspective.
Skylar wrote:hey just wanted to know, does anyone on this forum watch rick and morty? i recently binge watched the whole 2 seasons and i'm in love with it
I've only watched a few episodes so far but if I'm my most cynical/silly it's perfect. Love people's brains that can come up with this stuff
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Re: TV show thread

Post by 000dia000 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:51 pm

Skylar wrote:hey just wanted to know, does anyone on this forum watch rick and morty? i recently binge watched the whole 2 seasons and i'm in love with it
Haha yeah, it's definitely one of my favourite shows at the moment I can't wait until the third season. It's quite unique, as a TV show, there's nothing else quite like it, except maybe Futurama even then its much better
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Re: TV show thread

Post by oqua » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:55 am

teamug wrote: I had to google tjlc. :facepalm:
and even then the acronym didn't make sense, the THE didn't register and johnlock is a single word but both j and l are used, and I ended up staring at all these " the JOHNLOCK conspiracy" phrases and not getting it. Took an embarrassingly long time.
Omg thank you for this. I never understood that acronym either. I just could never get "the Johnlock conspiracy" to match up to "TJLC" in my head; I think subconsciously I've been convinced that it must secretly stand for "the Johnlock Conspiracy Theory" or something, but with the T from "theory" moved to the front for some reason lmao. How could I have been so blind?
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Re: TV show thread

Post by angelbeanphil » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:31 pm

I tend to come in late to these threads.
But omg is anyone here excited about the last season of Bates Motel with Rihanna???!!

I don't think Bates Motel gets enough love as a show, like it's dark and creepy but it's so worth watching if you like that kinda thing! It's a sorta a modern prequel to the movie Psycho and Freddie Highmore playing Norman Bates is nearly spot on with the original.
gahh, someone talk about this show with me
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Re: TV show thread

Post by Skylar » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:19 am

^i would love to talk to you about it if i watched it :c

does anyone here watch glee? i'm pretty sure a few people here do, i've seen at least one person have a glee icon on here. i'm binge watching the entire series. i've never actually binge watched a series more than 2 or 3 seasons..so wish me luck. i'm on the 3rd season right now, on episode 11. it's really good. so far my favorite character is kurt. he's so pure and deserves no hate. i ship klaine really hard btw like aaaa pls someone talk to me about this show?
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