Shane Dawson

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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by manged » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:53 pm

tw- sexual abuse, I guess.
I heard the Shane thread here had been revived, so I rushed over as quickly as I could. Honestly, I've been waiting for this day for a few years now. I'm a longtime Shane watcher, and have juggled enjoying his content with also being very critical of it and him. So off rip, I can say that I'm aware of his style of shock humor and am aware that he experienced sexual abuse as a child. In my eyes, he very clearly has a warped sense of boundaries between himself and those significantly younger than him. I wish I had kept a record of all the red flags he's shown.

The video that sparked this was his recent 2 part series where he finds a 14 year old musician on YouTube and instantly becomes obsessed with her, to the point of reaching out to her, inviting her to his home, and filming with her. I and others on GG didn't really see what it was about her that seemed to captivate Shane to the point that he was moved to tears over a fucking Hamilton cover.

But there he was calling her his "daughter" and "this bitch". Then when she came to his house and performed for him, this was his reaction:
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As a 29 year old man, how is your initial reaction to throw them knees back and buss it open in front of a teen girl?
And throughout the video, he verbalizes that what he's doing is "creepy" in a self-deprecating way, but clearly it wasn't "creepy" enough for him to not do the things- quite like how he admitted child porn is creepy in the podcast, but still went and searched for it.
So when his fans want to use the "he was joking; his humor is dark" excuse, his awareness that something was wrong hasn't been enough to prevent him from doing it. Not entirely equivalent but somewhat related just to make the point- he "joked" about liking men for YEARS before he actually came out (Lemme clarify that I'm not comparing pedophilia to liking men, before anyone interprets it that way. I'm referring to his own behavioral pattern). He jokes about his body dysmorphia and eating disorders. I don't think people with dark senses of humor just pluck it out of their asses; it comes from pain or shame and is expressed as "humor".
I'm more inclined to believe Shane isn't a legit pedophile. A lot of the points made in that Exposed video were silly, like his bf and ex having baby faces. But I think all this backlash should serve as a wake up call to Shane that, pedophile or not, he does cross a line when it comes to kids and teens, and being like "lol that's creepy" doesn't free him of the blame.
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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by Catallena » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:15 pm

fancybum wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:50 pm

(I haven't watched this or the expose video yet, I just saw that he posted this response)
Saw this just now, and like I said the original video screams 'teen from stan twitter needs internet woke points' so that's all fair. But my opinion on him remains... bad. In fact, I just realized something. Since the Logan Paul thing there's been a debate on how YouTube has been failing Creators recently in favor of shitty people like the Paul brothers. But here's a man who thought jokes justifying pedophilia were funny and was one of the faces of the platform in the days where YouTube was gaining mainstream recognition. And nobody ever did shit about it. In fact, he's still here being popular without ever having felt consequences for his actions. He claims that he has changed and wouldn't do shit like that anymore but then we move on the next post...
manged wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:53 pm
tw- sexual abuse, I guess.
I heard the Shane thread here had been revived, so I rushed over as quickly as I could. Honestly, I've been waiting for this day for a few years now. I'm a longtime Shane watcher, and have juggled enjoying his content with also being very critical of it and him. So off rip, I can say that I'm aware of his style of shock humor and am aware that he experienced sexual abuse as a child. In my eyes, he very clearly has a warped sense of boundaries between himself and those significantly younger than him. I wish I had kept a record of all the red flags he's shown.

The video that sparked this was his recent 2 part series where he finds a 14 year old musician on YouTube and instantly becomes obsessed with her, to the point of reaching out to her, inviting her to his home, and filming with her. I and others on GG didn't really see what it was about her that seemed to captivate Shane to the point that he was moved to tears over a fucking Hamilton cover.

But there he was calling her his "daughter" and "this bitch". Then when she came to his house and performed for him, this was his reaction:
Image
As a 29 year old man, how is your initial reaction to throw them knees back and buss it open in front of a teen girl?
And throughout the video, he verbalizes that what he's doing is "creepy" in a self-deprecating way, but clearly it wasn't "creepy" enough for him to not do the things- quite like how he admitted child porn is creepy in the podcast, but still went and searched for it.
So when his fans want to use the "he was joking; his humor is dark" excuse, his awareness that something was wrong hasn't been enough to prevent him from doing it. Not entirely equivalent but somewhat related just to make the point- he "joked" about liking men for YEARS before he actually came out (Lemme clarify that I'm not comparing pedophilia to liking men, before anyone interprets it that way. I'm referring to his own behavioral pattern). He jokes about his body dysmorphia and eating disorders. I don't think people with dark senses of humor just pluck it out of their asses; it comes from pain or shame and is expressed as "humor".
I'm more inclined to believe Shane isn't a legit pedophile. A lot of the points made in that Exposed video were silly, like his bf and ex having baby faces. But I think all this backlash should serve as a wake up call to Shane that, pedophile or not, he does cross a line when it comes to kids and teens, and being like "lol that's creepy" doesn't free him of the blame.
W T F. Indeed, how is that your reaction to a teen girl?? That's not funny. He claims he has changed, then does shit like that which obviously still comes from the same mindset. Much like how I never believes he suddenly stopped making racist jokes at all just because he dropped that shit in his videos. But he is really fucking weird about kids and being in the presence of them, and not in any kind of quirky way. But in an unsettling and gross kinda where I wouldn't want my children near him.
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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by 998274 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 pm

maybe i'm too sensitive or something...
but who the hell finds jokes about pedophilia funny? especially in that context?
i've never watched shane, so it's very difficult for me to understand why at this point people still defend him, but i guess i'm the same way with deppy so who am i to judge (although i would hope that if dnp made jokes like that i would unsubscribe in an instant)

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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by alittledizzy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:45 am

I just watched his apology and all I can think is... he sincerely doesn't see an issue in his behavior, and I kind of get why. I think to him 2017/2018 Shane really is a toned down matured version of who he used to be, and his comedy is a toned down and matured version of what his comedy used to be. But the root of the comedy is still there, he's still the guy with no filter who says things for shock value. And since it's not like he changed his entire style, all he did was tone it down, it makes it really easy to connect who he is now (considering things like what manged posted) with who he was then.

I think 'unsettling' is definitely the word I'd used to describe him.

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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by whatdoiknow » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:08 am

I would say I'm someone who is a fan of Shane to an extent (I've talked before about enjoying certain content of his, especially more recent stuff, and finding some of his videos quite funny). I would never blindly defend anyone even if I like them. I do not think Shane is a pedophile, at least not based on any evidence we have seen (that doesn't mean that he definitely isn't, I just don't think there has been any real evidence to support that).

I do think that Shane has worked to become a better person, and I do think he truly thinks he has become a better person. Though I do enjoy some of his content, I do think he still has a lot of things to work on and he is far from perfect. I struggled to get through his most recent videos with Sophie, because I did find it slightly weird. But I felt the reason I found it weird and a bit unsettling was that he was doing this for selfish gains, not because I thought his interaction with the child was overall strange. (though I will say that I skipped through quite a bit of the video because I was getting second-hand embarrassment from it, and I did not see the moment that is screen-capped above, and that is definitely quite unsettling).

Basically my thoughts on the matter are that I have not seen any proof that Shane is a pedophile (or any other illegal thing), but that he has done a lot of fucked up things in the past in the name of comedy, and that he continues to fuck up sometimes and do things I don't agree with. If it is ever proven that he has actually done something immoral or illegal, I would immediately stop watching him and not defend him, but from what I've seen/know so far, I am okay with watching the videos of his that appeal to me for some light entertainment, while being cautious and watching out for any more possible signs that he ultimately is not a good person.


Edit:
998274 wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 pm
maybe i'm too sensitive or something...
but who the hell finds jokes about pedophilia funny? especially in that context?
i've never watched shane, so it's very difficult for me to understand why at this point people still defend him, but i guess i'm the same way with deppy so who am i to judge (although i would hope that if dnp made jokes like that i would unsubscribe in an instant)
Just wanted to add, that I didn't think his jokes were funny at all and when his was playing the clip at the beginning of the apology video, I was super uncomfortable. I thought it was a recent clip (because the apology vid was the first I'd heard of the matter), and I was so disgusted and wasn't going to watch his videos anymore. Once he mentioned how old the clip was, I obviously still found it gross, but for now I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't say something like that today. That's just my perspective though.

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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by Lain » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:19 am

I felt physically ill after I saw that video, but I did take the time to watch most of the clips included and I just think it's glaringly obvious that context has been thrown out of the window. Still, I'm really disgusted and disappointed by the jokes he made in the past, especially as someone that was abused when I was less than 5 years old and especially as the mother of two young girls.

I know that I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I probably will give him the benefit of the doubt because I desperately don't want it to be true, but if anything even slightly more convincing comes out I won't hesitate bitch. Pewdiepie is beyond dead to me at this point, and there's a lot more room in that garbage heap for others.
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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by alittledizzy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:33 am

I think that the reason I'm so frustrated with his fans dismissing it entirely is exactly because of the two comments above mine. I think that someone making an expose video for attention or whatever is sketchy as fuck and he's not a pedophile, but I fully believe that fans should be informed... it doesn't matter if he said those things six days ago or six years ago, it's perfectly fine to make an informed decision to forgive him but knowing what kind of person someone is in the past can give you context to judge their current actions in an appropriate light.

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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by Skylar » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:12 am

I don’t think he’s a pedophile. Maybe his jokes are a bit dark, but I personally like dark humor. Maybe not /that/ dark, but, I still like him and I support him and I love his content. I just like “problematic” youtubers or whatever it seems. I don’t know. I just. I love Shane. I love his content. He’s the only youtuber I’ve watched that’s made me cry laughing. I know he’s not a pedophile. It makes me sick that people would accuse him of this.
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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by captainspacecoat » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:04 am

Skylar wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:12 am
I don’t think he’s a pedophile. Maybe his jokes are a bit dark, but I personally like dark humor. Maybe not /that/ dark, but, I still like him and I support him and I love his content. I just like “problematic” youtubers or whatever it seems. I don’t know. I just. I love Shane. I love his content. He’s the only youtuber I’ve watched that’s made me cry laughing. I know he’s not a pedophile. It makes me sick that people would accuse him of this.
Most people on this thread though aren't accusing him of being a pedophile. They're simply stating that the jokes /comments he has made in the past regarding pedophilia and the way he has (recently) behaved around a minor are distasteful/disturbing to them. It is possible, and essential I would argue, to be critical of your faves. Like, you can still "like" and "support" and "love" his content, while also recognising that some of the jokes he's made/things he's done were just flat-out in bad taste (e.g. his past use of blackface, joking about pedophilia etc). I find it strange that someone would like a youtuber specifically because they are "problematic", regardless of why it is they have been accused of offensive/bigoted/disturbing behaviour. It takes practise, but it really is so worth teaching yourself to approach your faves with maturity and self-awareness.

Part of being a fan of someone is not just acknowledging the good they do and supporting their successes, it is also acknowledging when they fuck up and ensuring that you don't abandon your own morals or intelligence in the way you behave as a fan. It can be hard, and sometimes your first instinct is to defend the people you love, but I think that being critical is so, so important. Don't be a sheep, basically :shrug:

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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by kavat » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:09 am

I'm at work so I can't check properly how legit this is but this seems so strange? Is this whole thing connected to the Logan Paul scandal? Thread: Or it might just be bored teenagers messing around.
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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by Katka » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:18 pm

Okay, but this kind of thing, it’s not “dark” or “edgy” humour. Monty Phyton is dark humour. Justifying pedophilia, even if it’s meant as a joke, is just gross. Look, I’ve always found Shane unsettling for the same reasons that have been stated by others. His low empathy mixed with his no filter persona just gives me seriously weird vibes and the way he really doesn’t seem to understand why the stuff he does is wrong is really odd. He’s been cancelled for me from the moment he and his friends harassed Franchesca Ramsey on Twitter a few years back after she called out his racism and no matter how often he says he’s changed, he really hasn’t. Shane has that white pretty boy bonus that makes people believe he’s a good person no matter how fucked up the things he does and says are but I really hope people finally become more critical of him and similar Youtubers.

kavat: Is she suggesting Logan Paul’s management created this scandal to make people focus on Shane and forget about Logan’s fuck up? I gotta get my tin hat for this…
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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by Lain » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:03 pm

alittledizzy wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:33 am
I think that the reason I'm so frustrated with his fans dismissing it entirely is exactly because of the two comments above mine. I think that someone making an expose video for attention or whatever is sketchy as fuck and he's not a pedophile, but I fully believe that fans should be informed... it doesn't matter if he said those things six days ago or six years ago, it's perfectly fine to make an informed decision to forgive him but knowing what kind of person someone is in the past can give you context to judge their current actions in an appropriate light.
What about my comment frustrated you?

I didn't just watch the expose video and dismiss it as ludicrous. I took the time to watch the clips in the video in the proper context and came to the conclusion that he's not a pedophile. I'm still disgusted by the comments regardless, though.
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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by kavat » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:03 pm

Katka wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:18 pm
kavat: Is she suggesting Logan Paul’s management created this scandal to make people focus on Shane and forget about Logan’s fuck up? I gotta get my tin hat for this…
Yeah, that's what I'm getting from this. If it's true it's point to a larger problem within the platform, if this is how managers do their business. Tinfoil hat on :tinfoil:
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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by alittledizzy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:05 pm

Lain wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:03 pm
alittledizzy wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:33 am
I think that the reason I'm so frustrated with his fans dismissing it entirely is exactly because of the two comments above mine. I think that someone making an expose video for attention or whatever is sketchy as fuck and he's not a pedophile, but I fully believe that fans should be informed... it doesn't matter if he said those things six days ago or six years ago, it's perfectly fine to make an informed decision to forgive him but knowing what kind of person someone is in the past can give you context to judge their current actions in an appropriate light.
What about my comment frustrated you?

I didn't just watch the expose video and dismiss it as ludicrous. I took the time to watch the clips in the video in the proper context and came to the conclusion that he's not a pedophile. I'm still disgusted by the comments regardless, though.
I'm sorry, I worded my post badly, I wasn't frustrated with your response, your response is the kind I want to see - someone acknowledging what Shane did, and taking it into consideration, and making up their mind after that. But in a lot of fans (and those are the ones I'm frustrated with) the fan culture mindset leaves someone's choices being 'must defend at all costs' or 'must burn at the stake' with no in between. Because fan culture (or maybe I just mean "stan culture") means that more often people who consider themselves fans of someone are more willing to adjust their perception of right and wrong than adjust their perception of the person they define themselves as being a fan of, and therefore will just keep pushing the line of what is acceptable back further and further in order to keep their guilt free viewing habits. It also has the side effect of drawing battle lines in the sand - posts on tumblr that say things like "unfollow me if you think [whatever] about [fave celeb/youtuber]" are aggressive and paint an almost hostile stance about anyone who does want to have some kind of middle ground opinion like, "He was wrong, I'm deciding this is not enough for me to stop watching this time, but I'll judge his future actions with this in context."

Basically I'm frustrated because within the confines of a lot of fandom circles opinions like yours and whatdoiknow's. are rare.

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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by Lain » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:10 pm

Oh, I completely missed your point, whoops. I've had coffee now =)

I agree, it's very frustrating. Especially considering what he was being accused of. I see a lot of that kind of hostility on Twitter and Tumblr every time pdp is disgusting and his fans rush to his defense. It's unfortunate that a lot of those types of fans refuse to even have a conversation.
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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by whatdoiknow » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:32 pm

alittledizzy wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:05 pm
Lain wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:03 pm
alittledizzy wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:33 am
I think that the reason I'm so frustrated with his fans dismissing it entirely is exactly because of the two comments above mine. I think that someone making an expose video for attention or whatever is sketchy as fuck and he's not a pedophile, but I fully believe that fans should be informed... it doesn't matter if he said those things six days ago or six years ago, it's perfectly fine to make an informed decision to forgive him but knowing what kind of person someone is in the past can give you context to judge their current actions in an appropriate light.
What about my comment frustrated you?

I didn't just watch the expose video and dismiss it as ludicrous. I took the time to watch the clips in the video in the proper context and came to the conclusion that he's not a pedophile. I'm still disgusted by the comments regardless, though.
I'm sorry, I worded my post badly, I wasn't frustrated with your response, your response is the kind I want to see - someone acknowledging what Shane did, and taking it into consideration, and making up their mind after that. But in a lot of fans (and those are the ones I'm frustrated with) the fan culture mindset leaves someone's choices being 'must defend at all costs' or 'must burn at the stake' with no in between. Because fan culture (or maybe I just mean "stan culture") means that more often people who consider themselves fans of someone are more willing to adjust their perception of right and wrong than adjust their perception of the person they define themselves as being a fan of, and therefore will just keep pushing the line of what is acceptable back further and further in order to keep their guilt free viewing habits. It also has the side effect of drawing battle lines in the sand - posts on tumblr that say things like "unfollow me if you think [whatever] about [fave celeb/youtuber]" are aggressive and paint an almost hostile stance about anyone who does want to have some kind of middle ground opinion like, "He was wrong, I'm deciding this is not enough for me to stop watching this time, but I'll judge his future actions with this in context."

Basically I'm frustrated because within the confines of a lot of fandom circles opinions like yours and whatdoiknow's. are rare.
Thanks for clarifying alittledizzy. I was also a little confused by your first comment, and was going to ask about it then saw you already replied to Lain; it turns out my interpretation of your comment was right, but thanks for clarifying anyway!

I completely agree with what you're saying. The most frustrating (and destructive) thing to see in fandoms is people blindly 'stanning' people and getting aggressive towards others who don't share their viewpoint. I've seen it happen way too many times, and it's not only disappointing, but also a little scary. If (probably mainly young) people are already acting this way toward fandom issues (small or large), how are they going to act with possibly more significant matters as they grow up. Not to say blindly defending people on social media over pedophilia, homophobia, racist, etc things isn't already bad, but how will they reconcile their beliefs of certain people when voting in politics and matters such as that? I really think there should be a critical thinking course taught at school.

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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by Skylar » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:43 am

captainspacecoat wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:04 am
Skylar wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:12 am
I don’t think he’s a pedophile. Maybe his jokes are a bit dark, but I personally like dark humor. Maybe not /that/ dark, but, I still like him and I support him and I love his content. I just like “problematic” youtubers or whatever it seems. I don’t know. I just. I love Shane. I love his content. He’s the only youtuber I’ve watched that’s made me cry laughing. I know he’s not a pedophile. It makes me sick that people would accuse him of this.
Most people on this thread though aren't accusing him of being a pedophile. They're simply stating that the jokes /comments he has made in the past regarding pedophilia and the way he has (recently) behaved around a minor are distasteful/disturbing to them. It is possible, and essential I would argue, to be critical of your faves. Like, you can still "like" and "support" and "love" his content, while also recognising that some of the jokes he's made/things he's done were just flat-out in bad taste (e.g. his past use of blackface, joking about pedophilia etc). I find it strange that someone would like a youtuber specifically because they are "problematic", regardless of why it is they have been accused of offensive/bigoted/disturbing behaviour. It takes practise, but it really is so worth teaching yourself to approach your faves with maturity and self-awareness.

Part of being a fan of someone is not just acknowledging the good they do and supporting their successes, it is also acknowledging when they fuck up and ensuring that you don't abandon your own morals or intelligence in the way you behave as a fan. It can be hard, and sometimes your first instinct is to defend the people you love, but I think that being critical is so, so important. Don't be a sheep, basically :shrug:
No no I’m aware. I don’t condone the jokes he made. They were in bad taste. Granted I do sort of like that sort of humor but a lot of it went too far. I apologize if I made it seem like
I condoned his jokes in the past.

Edit; also I’d like to add I don’t like him solely because he’s “ problematic”I like him because he’s genuine and I like his content. I apologize if i seemed like I approved of his past behavior.
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Re: Shane Dawson

Post by blurry-bitch » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:30 pm

Skylar wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:43 am

No no I’m aware. I don’t condone the jokes he made. They were in bad taste. Granted I do sort of like that sort of humor but a lot of it went too far. I apologize if I made it seem like
I condoned his jokes in the past.
Yeah I would also like to add that, after all, he has apologized for the jokes. Were they shit? Yeah. But he also said that himself. And it was 6 years ago. And out of context too. So to have someone try and accuse him of being a pedophile is ridiculous and hurtful to me. Like, how much can somebody cling onto a stupid joke from sb's past. Shane had a lot of really problematic content but the jokes he makes today, even if they are crazy, they are not really offensive. He mostly makes fun of himself anyway.

Im going to go because I'm just starting to ramble. I just like him a lot and I can tell he feels hurt by that (well, obviously).
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