Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by dblyw » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:52 pm

I’m finding the discourse around the book to be fascinating. I have some thoughts that aren’t aimed at/arguing with anyone at all.

I am a researcher (I have a PhD and lead healthcare research for the government) and considered an “expert” in certain things. Truly how we learn what works and what doesn’t work is by talking to people who’ve experienced the thing we’re studying and trying things out to see if they work. Me being an “expert” doesn’t mean I’m the only one with the right answers....ideas often come from patients, staff, caregivers, family members, etc. So I definitely think there is room for “non-experts” to voice their thoughts and experiences because it may resonate with others. And it might not.

I don’t get the sense he’s offering advice on treating serious mental health problems. According to Daniel and Depression, he has tried some things out that worked to help keep him stable in terms of general well being and that ultimately helped keep his depression at bay. The things he described in that video were a lot of the same info I’ve gotten from my own therapists, seen in the research literature, and serve as part of the foundation of a depression intervention I’m currently implementing. (Side note: I’m NOT a psychologist, but have psychologists on my team to help me think through how to adapt and implement the program...kind of like Dan is probably doing with the book).

I am imagining this book as an expansion of the themes of the D&D video and focused on general well being...but I could be totally wrong.

A separate thing I’ve been wondering about is the seeming lack of support from some of dan’s YouTube friends. I only follow a few people in his friend group, but noticed that several of them liked/commented on the lingerie pic, but none of them did on his book announcement on Instagram. I didn’t notice him liking many supportive tweets either. Maybe others that follow more of his friends have a different impression...just curious about it.



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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by shan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:49 am

Hello, I'm new here but I wanted to share my thoughts on the discourse around Dan's book.

I'm honestly so surprised at the amount of unease around his book announcement! As someone who has dealt with diagnosed major depression for 10+ years and anxiety for most of my life, I was ecstatic when I saw what the book would be about. Bringing more awareness to mental health is almost always a good thing! It's almost as though people expect him to suddenly do a complete 180 and provide a book on depression written in the style of Jake Paul.

For the people concerned about the 'this book could change your life' comment (emphasise on could not will), from the trailer I very much take this to be in reference to the heavy focus on taking stock of your mental health. From Daniel and Depression, we know that he didn't really acknowledge his negative mental health symptoms for a long while. If you don't take the time to understand your mental health, how likely are you to seek help and/or treatment? To me, this was very clearly the point of that sentiment because realising your mental health may not be as good as it can be, especially during these COVID times, could absolutely change your life as you then have the knowledge you need to take steps to improve it.

To the people claiming only those with a degree in mental health should give advice on the topic, I whole-heartedly disagree. Speaking with friends who have also sort treatment from Psychologists/Psychiatrists and discussing what worked for them has often been more beneficial to me than my own experiences with Psychologists (and trust me, I've seen many over the last decade trying to find the right fit). The reason for this being, peers who have been through similar experiences to you can provide a genuine account of what techniques etc. from their treatment worked for them rather than Psychologists who may never have experienced depression having strong opinions on certain methods of treatment (which are well documented to very much be a not one-size-fits-all kind of deal). A good friend of mine currently studying Psychology at a Masters level had very strong objections to the method of treatment my Psychologist was using despite it working for me! CBT if you're interested.

That's not to say that a professional voice isn't necessary, because it absolutely is. I would never listen to the advice of a non-professional who I a) didn't explicitly trust and b) had not sort treatment themselves. But sharing our experiences and our advice is so so important in my opinion. It spreads awareness, it spreads resources, it helps others realise they aren't alone and that their struggles don't need to be a secret and the way they are feeling doesn't have to be their new normal.

On the point of professional voices, there is a very clearly stated emphasise on the fact that a Psychologist has been consulted in the writing of this book and there is absolutely no way that Dan of all people would ignore the advice of said professional when offering his insights. More than that, I guarantee you that the book will actively encourage seeking professional help for these issues (if it is within your means, as I understand it's not so straight-forward for Americans). I can tell you with absolute certainty it will be the first piece of advice he offers. And can I re-state he sought a Psychologist's opinion/approval for the book? He 100% did not have to do that, he chose to ensure this book was not putting anything potentially harmful out there.

Please don't stress yourself out over this book announcement. Dan has never been the type of person to throw anything out into the world without an absurd amount of consideration and overthinking. If there was something he thought could be potentially damaging, Dan would be the first to pull the plug on the project.

Let's wait until the book is released and we've read it before we freak out about hypothetical negatives. I have 100% confidence this book will wonderful and I'm so excited to read it next May!

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by Phanshy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:59 am

No one is saying Dan can't write a book about his mental health and what has helped him get through things, I'm sure no one thinks he has bad intentions with this, no doubt he genuinely thinks it will help people but ultimately wasn't what helped him going to see a qualified therapist, not a celebrity self-help book. Not to trivialize it but if it was the same description but from somebody other than Dan would you have the same confidence or are you just relying on your faith in Dan.

I know a lot of people have been helped by Dan's videos and even him just being so vocal about his own struggle and maybe this book will reach people who wouldn't be reached by anything else but it doesn't sit right with me, especially the conversation about people not being able to access therapy (like Dan has)like this book is a good substitute that's kind of a scary thought to me. People can be confident that this will be a great book if they want and others can think even the marketing of it bothers them.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by shan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:15 am

My faith in the book is absolutely dependent on the person who wrote it. Dan has a number of years under his belt of being vocal about mental health, working with and shouting out resources, organisations and charities that do significant work for mental health. I don't think Dan is advertising nor claiming that his book is a substitute for therapy, so I suppose I really don't understand that concern that I've seen come up so much. I'd be willing to bet that his advise centrally hinges on seeking professional help if necessary and the entire book is in consultation with a professional so the concern on it's content perplexes me in that respect as well.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by lefthandedism » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:23 am

shan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:49 am
Hello, I'm new here but I wanted to share my thoughts on the discourse around Dan's book.
I'm honestly so surprised at the amount of unease around his book announcement! As someone who has dealt with diagnosed major depression for 10+ years and anxiety for most of my life, I was ecstatic when I saw what the book would be about. Bringing more awareness to mental health is almost always a good thing! It's almost as though people expect him to suddenly do a complete 180 and provide a book on depression written in the style of Jake Paul.

For the people concerned about the 'this book could change your life' comment (emphasise on could not will), from the trailer I very much take this to be in reference to the heavy focus on taking stock of your mental health. From Daniel and Depression, we know that he didn't really acknowledge his negative mental health symptoms for a long while. If you don't take the time to understand your mental health, how likely are you to seek help and/or treatment? To me, this was very clearly the point of that sentiment because realising your mental health may not be as good as it can be, especially during these COVID times, could absolutely change your life as you then have the knowledge you need to take steps to improve it.

To the people claiming only those with a degree in mental health should give advice on the topic, I whole-heartedly disagree. Speaking with friends who have also sort treatment from Psychologists/Psychiatrists and discussing what worked for them has often been more beneficial to me than my own experiences with Psychologists (and trust me, I've seen many over the last decade trying to find the right fit). The reason for this being, peers who have been through similar experiences to you can provide a genuine account of what techniques etc. from their treatment worked for them rather than Psychologists who may never have experienced depression having strong opinions on certain methods of treatment (which are well documented to very much be a not one-size-fits-all kind of deal). A good friend of mine currently studying Psychology at a Masters level had very strong objections to the method of treatment my Psychologist was using despite it working for me! CBT if you're interested.

That's not to say that a professional voice isn't necessary, because it absolutely is. I would never listen to the advice of a non-professional who I a) didn't explicitly trust and b) had not sort treatment themselves. But sharing our experiences and our advice is so so important in my opinion. It spreads awareness, it spreads resources, it helps others realise they aren't alone and that their struggles don't need to be a secret and the way they are feeling doesn't have to be their new normal.

On the point of professional voices, there is a very clearly stated emphasise on the fact that a Psychologist has been consulted in the writing of this book and there is absolutely no way that Dan of all people would ignore the advice of said professional when offering his insights. More than that, I guarantee you that the book will actively encourage seeking professional help for these issues (if it is within your means, as I understand it's not so straight-forward for Americans). I can tell you with absolute certainty it will be the first piece of advice he offers. And can I re-state he sought a Psychologist's opinion/approval for the book? He 100% did not have to do that, he chose to ensure this book was not putting anything potentially harmful out there.

Please don't stress yourself out over this book announcement. Dan has never been the type of person to throw anything out into the world without an absurd amount of consideration and overthinking. If there was something he thought could be potentially damaging, Dan would be the first to pull the plug on the project.
Let's wait until the book is released and we've read it before we freak out about hypothetical negatives. I have 100% confidence this book will wonderful and I'm so excited to read it next May!
Thanks for sharing your well-articulated thoughts and excitement for the book! And :welcome: !
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by shan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:36 am

Thank you :D

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by xAshleighx » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:39 am

shan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:49 am
For the people concerned about the 'this book could change your life' comment (emphasise on could not will), from the trailer I very much take this to be in reference to the heavy focus on taking stock of your mental health. From Daniel and Depression, we know that he didn't really acknowledge his negative mental health symptoms for a long while. If you don't take the time to understand your mental health, how likely are you to seek help and/or treatment? To me, this was very clearly the point of that sentiment because realising your mental health may not be as good as it can be, especially during these COVID times, could absolutely change your life as you then have the knowledge you need to take steps to improve it.
Welcome!

I don't want to speculate on what Dan specifically meant by the "could change your life" comment, but I think that this is definitely one way that the book could help people - particularly those who purchase it to support him, rather than because they think they need it. I could see myself having been in that position if the book had come out a year ago. I knew that I had a lot of anxiety, and I knew that I found it hard to get out of bed most days, but I didn't think that there was anything I could do about it, and I didn't think it was "that bad," so I didn't seek treatment. Eventually my fiancee and friend teamed up to convince me to get help, but were they not around, I think that someone I look up to like Dan could have filled a similar role.

Even now, I am genuinely interested in what ideas/techniques/etc Dan will share. On the one hand, I know that I should utilize the podcasts, blog posts, etc. that Kurapika mentioned which are made by actual professionals, but on the other hand, I know myself and I know that I will be more inspired to do something if it is recommended by someone I trust on a more personal level, whether that be a personal therapist (which I can no longer afford), friend, or even Dan. I don't think he's going to be explaining any wild and risky techniques (at least, I hope not), but for me even discussing something like self-compassion, establishing a support system, etc. could be helpful.

Thank you for mentioning those resources, though, Kurapika! I have genuinely never thought about things like that existing, if I cannot get back into therapy due to cost I will try and look into those more reputable options, in addition to (and to be taken more 'seriously' than) this upcoming book.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by Phanshy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:53 am

Shan my comment wasn't really a response to your comment in particular only my last line because I didn't see your post till I was posting mine. I absolutely don't think Dan would want people to think this is a substitution for therapy that was a response to someone saying not everyone can access therapy. I know he's done a lot to advocate about mental health and I'd never want to diminish that and the genuine help he's been to many people through sharing his experience but not everyone finds his approach helpful, his "relatable humour" approach on Twitter I find very difficult and often quite triggering at times which is why I don't follow him on Twitter and rely on others to keep me updated.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by shan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:03 am

I completely understand that, I'm not a huge fan of his twitter content either. I don't think he would use this book as an opportunity to bust out that kind of content en masse (at least I really hope not). I'm imagining something more like 'Basically I'm Gay' with little interjections here and there that don't impact too much on the seriousness of the story.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by plinthofmylife » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:25 am

If this is just an extended take on Daniel & Depression and Basically, I'm Gay in a book package, I couldn't be more excited.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by Kurapika » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:00 am

Phanshy wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:53 am
Shan my comment wasn't really a response to your comment in particular only my last line because I didn't see your post till I was posting mine. I absolutely don't think Dan would want people to think this is a substitution for therapy that was a response to someone saying not everyone can access therapy. I know he's done a lot to advocate about mental health and I'd never want to diminish that and the genuine help he's been to many people through sharing his experience but not everyone finds his approach helpful, his "relatable humour" approach on Twitter I find very difficult and often quite triggering at times which is why I don't follow him on Twitter and rely on others to keep me updated.
all your last posts are exactly what i'm trying to say. a lot of people have this idea, that i think is very individualistic, that bc it works for them, it can work for everyone, and it's just not true.

please listen to professionals when they talk about their field of work.

but, once again, this might not apply to dan!
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by graviphantalia » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:30 am

One thing I'd like to add about the book discourse is that I believe that we aren't really the best representation of the audience for this book. So many of you guys have discussed your own personal mental crises, professional training, and experiences with therapy in your assessments. But that's the minority of the possible readers. Most of the population is still neurotypical and relatively unfamiliar with and don't need therapy. So while a self-help guide wouldn't stop you from having mental illness, the blurb gives me the impression that it'd give basic ways to handle personal problems that may cause a person to spiral into crisis. And as others have said, a basic self-help book for most-likely neurotypicals who are temporarily distressed is a lot more accessible and practical than going through the whole process of finding a therapist. I also appreciate Dan's work towards ending the stigma towards seeing a therapist in "Daniel and Depression," and could see that theme being carried out throughout the book.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by shan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:06 am

graviphantalia wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:30 am
One thing I'd like to add about the book discourse is that I believe that we aren't really the best representation of the audience for this book. So many of you guys have discussed your own personal mental crises, professional training, and experiences with therapy in your assessments. But that's the minority of the possible readers. Most of the population is still neurotypical and relatively unfamiliar with and don't need therapy. So while a self-help guide wouldn't stop you from having mental illness, the blurb gives me the impression that it'd give basic ways to handle personal problems that may cause a person to spiral into crisis. And as others have said, a basic self-help book for most-likely neurotypicals who are temporarily distressed is a lot more accessible and practical than going through the whole process of finding a therapist. I also appreciate Dan's work towards ending the stigma towards seeing a therapist in "Daniel and Depression," and could see that theme being carried out throughout the book.
This is what I couldn't find the words for! I don't think his book is intending to be ground-breaking in terms of advice nor catering for people with serious mental illness. Most likely it will be suggestions for helping minor bouts of decreased mental health, along the lines of having a routine, getting enough sleep, exercise etc. which is the first recommendation of every Psychologist I've seen. I personally think it will be more about breaking stigmas around mental health and providing ways to open up about personal struggles since talking about, even to people you're very close to, can be really hard.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by liola » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:50 am

If we don't have enough information thus we can't have criticism of the book then surely we don't have enough information to say for sure what's going to be in it and just how helpful and great it will be, right?

All of this to say, everyone that thinks this book will be good, it's great that you think so. I hope you will enjoy the read when it finally is out and I hope it will be a good read, it'll five you comfort and it will be worth the wait.

Personally the book could be the best of his genre of all times and it wouldn't change the fact I don't care about these kind of books personally and I'm wary of Dan writing one and I'm not interested in buying it or reading it but I can be critical of the idea of it.

Let's share opinions without telling others WHY they should actually see the beauty of the book and how it can be amazing, because someone having issues with the idea of it will not change their minds and it sounds.. kinda judgy.

The book could be amazing or it could be empty words filled with the same kind of advice you can find in any inspirational instagram post or even giving money to Howell junior the life coach (who is also not a certified professional and everyone bashed for despite doing pretty much what Dan is doing now but his name isn't Dan). We really don't know. One opinion isn't more valid than the other, please.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by shan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:37 am

I don't think anyone is claiming the book will be objectively good or even particularly useful as a well of information into coping with decreased mental health. I personally don't expect to read anything new beyond additional insights into Dan's own experiences. If the book doesn't sound like your cup of tea, no problem. I don't think anyone is forcing that issue (that I've seen).

I believe the conversation has been more around the qualification of Dan to write it in the first place. I personally think the level of concern is a bit much when he clearly has thought about this to the extent of seeking professional consultation on the contents of the book (and gone so far as listing this on the blurb) probably hoping to avoid the criticism he now seems to be receiving.

I'm sorry if my opinion came off judge-y, it definitely wasn't intended to be. I came here because I wanted to share my excitement with others as I don't know any DnP fans irl but reading the thread was just really disheartening.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by Phanshy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:23 am

You shouldn't feel disheartened the majority of people here according to the poll are planning to buy the book, last time I checked it was 71% who were gonna get it for different reasons. I think those of us who have issues with aspects of the book for many different reasons are probably more vocal about our misgivings. It's really difficult, I feel very conflicted because I've really missed Dan and I'm glad he's back even though it's with something I can't get on board with, I'm happy for him that it's been successful because I can only imagine how much he's put in to it and how scary it is to open up about things but I also have issues with aspects of the description and the marketing of it that aren't going to go away. I feel awful even thinking this but I'm just hoping this is going to be a one off because I don't want him to become some kind of self-help guru.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by glitterintheair » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:10 pm

Phanshy wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:23 am
but I also have issues with aspects of the description and the marketing of it that aren't going to go away.
Same. My main issue is that the description and the marketing remind me of Adrian. I just can’t help it, the way those things are worded look very similar to the posts Adrian makes on Instagram and that leaves me with a bad feeling. And as someone who criticized Adrian for his choices, I can’t be on board with Dan’s when they look pretty much the same to me. However, I really hope I am wrong. I hope that the more we get know about this book, the less Adrianesque will seem to be (now, this would be a good time for an Author vs Readers Q&A).
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by shan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:39 pm

I get the discomfort with some of the wording in the marketing. I've seen someone mention elsewhere that the marketing is likely something he has little control over and has probably been purposefully written to draw in readers outside of his current youtube following. My belief in everything ultimately turning out ok is absolutely because of following Dan and his journey and how careful he is with what he says to his audience. I can understand how it may rub people the wrong way outside of his circle.

I'm also coming from the perspective of having very little info on the Adrian situation. All I know from a two second look at his insta is he likes running in the mountains. Has he taken a similar path? (Note: I don't think self-help Howell is going to be Dan's MO forever, just a topic he is clearly passionate about and wanted to expand on in a more serious, formal way).

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by lefthandedism » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:47 pm

plinthofmylife wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:25 am
If this is just an extended take on Daniel & Depression and Basically, I'm Gay in a book package, I couldn't be more excited.
This. We have a very good idea of Dan's positions and approachs from a decade's worth of videos, liveshows, charity events and so forth. And we have excellent specific clues from Daniel & Depression and BIG. I would focus on the data we have before us rather than vaguely (poorly) worded marketing blurbs, negative associations with the "self help" genre, or anything Dan's relatives are doing.

We've already seen the real trailer for this book. Unless and until Dan specificly contradicts it.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by lefthandedism » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:50 pm

shan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:39 pm

I'm also coming from the perspective of having very little info on the Adrian situation. All I know from a two second look at his insta is he likes running in the mountains. Has he taken a similar path? (Note: I don't think self-help Howell is going to be Dan's MO forever, just a topic he is clearly passionate about and wanted to expand on in a more serious, formal way).
Adrian has a YouTube channel you can check out and two instas (you should be able to get from one to the other). We also have an Adrian Howell thread in the Other YouTubers subforum for discussion of Adrian's content.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by alittledizzy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 pm

shan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:37 am
I don't think anyone is claiming the book will be objectively good or even particularly useful as a well of information into coping with decreased mental health. I personally don't expect to read anything new beyond additional insights into Dan's own experiences. If the book doesn't sound like your cup of tea, no problem. I don't think anyone is forcing that issue (that I've seen).

I believe the conversation has been more around the qualification of Dan to write it in the first place. I personally think the level of concern is a bit much when he clearly has thought about this to the extent of seeking professional consultation on the contents of the book (and gone so far as listing this on the blurb) probably hoping to avoid the criticism he now seems to be receiving.

I'm sorry if my opinion came off judge-y, it definitely wasn't intended to be. I came here because I wanted to share my excitement with others as I don't know any DnP fans irl but reading the thread was just really disheartening.
Please do continue sharing your excitement. I love seeing this forum get new members and personally I'm excited as fuck. I'm a fan of Dan. A lot of us are, though it may not seem like it from reading the discussion happening now! Definitely don't feel disheartened. I like Dan as a person and I trust him and I trust that he's not putting out total crap. It may be that it's published and I find that I like the personal stories about Dan but not the advice. But even if the book isn't to my liking once it's published I'm still excited for him as a person and I'm excited for new activity. We're gonna get so much in the coming months and I'm just... fucking ready for it.

So trust me, there are a lot of excited people here, and they'll pop back up the next time someone does something. That does tend to be the pattern, there are a lot of people that do want that initial burst of sharing excitement with other fans then disappear once the debate cycles start. But some of us that are excited do stick around, so please stay and join us. <3

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by kavat » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:28 pm

I'm so excited for the "promotional shenanigans" as he put it. Pictures! Interviews! Maybe even in video form! Book tour might not be a thing, who knows, but maybe a livestream of sorts? I'm so starved for Dan content that I'll take anything at this point.

Combine that with the possibility of regular quiz shows with Phil and I'm v v happy.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by shan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:33 pm

alittledizzy wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 pm
shan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:37 am
I don't think anyone is claiming the book will be objectively good or even particularly useful as a well of information into coping with decreased mental health. I personally don't expect to read anything new beyond additional insights into Dan's own experiences. If the book doesn't sound like your cup of tea, no problem. I don't think anyone is forcing that issue (that I've seen).

I believe the conversation has been more around the qualification of Dan to write it in the first place. I personally think the level of concern is a bit much when he clearly has thought about this to the extent of seeking professional consultation on the contents of the book (and gone so far as listing this on the blurb) probably hoping to avoid the criticism he now seems to be receiving.

I'm sorry if my opinion came off judge-y, it definitely wasn't intended to be. I came here because I wanted to share my excitement with others as I don't know any DnP fans irl but reading the thread was just really disheartening.
Please do continue sharing your excitement. I love seeing this forum get new members and personally I'm excited as fuck. I'm a fan of Dan. A lot of us are, though it may not seem like it from reading the discussion happening now! Definitely don't feel disheartened. I like Dan as a person and I trust him and I trust that he's not putting out total crap. It may be that it's published and I find that I like the personal stories about Dan but not the advice. But even if the book isn't to my liking once it's published I'm still excited for him as a person and I'm excited for new activity. We're gonna get so much in the coming months and I'm just... fucking ready for it.

So trust me, there are a lot of excited people here, and they'll pop back up the next time someone does something. That does tend to be the pattern, there are a lot of people that do want that initial burst of sharing excitement with other fans then disappear once the debate cycles start. But some of us that are excited do stick around, so please stay and join us. <3
That's so good to hear! I might have to try arranging my visits to the shouty-excited times then as these kind of exchanges can be quite detrimental to my own mental health (I'm an overly sensitive bean so I try to be around positivity as much as possible). I'm very excited for the infinite possibilities of more Dan content, even though joint content will likely remain :tumbleweed:

One final thought before I leave for the day is from just watching Adrian Howell's depression and anxiety video. I can't imagine two more opposite individuals in their approach to discussing mental health. A 12 minute spur of the moment video with no plan versus Dan's thought out, researched and heavily resourced video are worlds apart and gives me even more comfort that there's little to be afraid of for this book.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by rizzo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:28 pm

shan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:33 pm
One final thought before I leave for the day is from just watching Adrian Howell's depression and anxiety video. I can't imagine two more opposite individuals in their approach to discussing mental health. A 12 minute spur of the moment video with no plan versus Dan's thought out, researched and heavily resourced video are worlds apart and gives me even more comfort that there's little to be afraid of for this book.
I'm a pretty intense critic of Adrian's attempts to "coach" anyone - so much so that I've even DM'd him about it to no avail - and I think what you said here really concisely summarizes why I think Dan's book has my support vs anything Adrian's recommended to date.

Until I see evidence of Adrian putting time in to research the information he shares... And forget collaborating with a trained psychologist - until I see him even REFERENCE one.... he won't be in the same realm as Dan. I just think the comparison isn't there.

That all being said..... The wonderful thing about our (relatively) free world is that people have an abundance of choice when it comes to the media they consume. For some, seeking support for their mental health problems may be as easy as listening to Adrian hammer on about veganism and cycling. And the rest of us can spend all of our days explaining why his platform isn't a valid one, but hey! Maybe becoming a vegan cyclist has actually changed someone's life. IDFK.

In the same way, someone can choose to read Dan's book and take meaning from it. And use whatever tips he has to make changes in their life. And this could be a good middle ground for those people! Knowing this advice is based not only in one person's personal experience, but that it's backed by a trained psychologist.

I'm basically repeating the same thing others have already said, but my point is that Dan never promised to heal all things and has already spoken pretty loudly about the therapist he sees and meds he takes. And I'm certain without a shadow of doubt he'll say the same in his book. I think he's the last person on Earth who believes one book will be the big change for someone, but he wants to contribute what he knows. And he's doing that from a pretty educated POV - so I genuinely see no issue in it whatsoever.

Good on him for taking on a serious topic and trying to contribute positively to individual human lives.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

Post by obvsly » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:33 pm

shan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:33 pm
One final thought before I leave for the day is from just watching Adrian Howell's depression and anxiety video. I can't imagine two more opposite individuals in their approach to discussing mental health. A 12 minute spur of the moment video with no plan versus Dan's thought out, researched and heavily resourced video are worlds apart and gives me even more comfort that there's little to be afraid of for this book.
THIS! I have been trying hard not to outright compare them out of fear I’d be kicked out of the main thread though lol But yeah, what you said. Call me optimistic but I can’t see dan going all new age on us like that. I’m excited to see what exactly the tone of the book would be like.

Added: ooh I just saw rizzo’s post up there, so ah yeah, that too. :D
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