Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

[quercussp]

Hm, I wanted to stay out of this, (especially since I didn't post in forever) but the doomsday mood on here is getting so severe, I thought the opinion of someone who didn't get disenchanted with the boys by this whole thing wouldn't hurt.

The thing is, you're all saying that if somebody does something hurtful and shitty, all his decent friends should just cut him out of their lives immediately? Leaving a guy with 50 million subscribers with only racist friends to influence him? How does this make anything any better?
And I know you all see them as "public figures" but at the same time they are still just some guys, some human beings, socially awkward ones at that. I, for one, wouldn't know how to completely cut someone out of my life who is tangled with my friends group. Phil has been friends with PJ for more than ten years now, and I do believe that the three of them do really click very well, and since they only get the chance to meet a couple of times a year and most of PJs social life in Brighton seems to include Felix and Marcia these days, cutting Felix (and not to forget Marcia since they're a package deal much like deppy) would practically mean mostly ending the friendship with PJ.

I'm just a bit confused about the strength of your reactions. Of course, I'm not feeling too happy about them hanging out with Felix either, but it's still not them saying that it is okay to say that word. And a lot of you seemed to only get really disappointed when the picture surfaced, although we knew they would meet since a few days before that. So what, you would be more ok with it if they had refused to be in the picture? Going all "sorry birthday girl, we will still hang out with you but we don't want to be in a photo with your boyfriend so our image on social media won't get soiled"? (I get that most of you are disappointed that apparently they don't see or care how them meeting up with Felix might send the message to some people that they think what Felix did wasn't so bad. But again, they aren't politicians, they are just human beings. life is complicated.) It's not like they mentioned their hanging out with Felix on any of their own platforms, so it's not like they're condoning his behavior publicly. Not that that's what I would consider a mere picture with him. They just mentioned the birthday party on the liveshow, which means only to people like us who would have found out anyways.

But then, I don't get the whole "role model" thing anyway, I never expected anybody to be without fault, even as a kid I didn't really "look up to" any celebrity. Why do people care that much about what some celebrity is thinking? Maybe I was a strange kid, but I think my role models were my parents? I like the guys because they're funny, I feel entertained by them, I think they're generally good people and I came to care about their wellbeing a lot. But they don't need to be morally superior to the average person for me to feel this way. Considering the extreme reactions of a lot of you guys here, I'm just wondering what kind of transcendental beings the boys were in your head before all of this happened.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but the thing is that at least my reaction isn't rational. I did know and was prepared for it, or so I thought, and didn't expect anything different. And I definitely will get over it and I still consider DnP good people, but for some reason it still hurts. But I also don't think that Felix needs someone to hold his hand and make him better. But your post did help me try to work out my feelings for the situation, so thank you for that.

[Birdie]

This „Felix needs a decent friend to explain to him why what he did was wrong!“ argument crops up every few days lately and it’s still not relevant because Felix knows what he’s doing. He’s had it explained to him a million times. The problem is he just doesn’t care and no decent friend willing to explain it to him over and over again can change that. Look, it’s not like Felix said a bad word once. He has used racist (and anti-semitic, homophobic and sexist) language for ages and no matter how often he gets called out, he never listens. He doesn’t care. This isn’t about us expecting D&P to drop a friend for saying a bad word once. It’s about a fandom made up of people from all kinds of social backgrounds being disappointed that two people they look up to still publicly engage with a man who enables harmful behaviour for laughs and doesn’t care who gets hurt.

I’ve said this before. If they want to stay friends with Felix in private, go ahead. We don’t get to decide what they do in their private lives and cutting a friend out of your life is hard. The problem is that it’s happening publicly. So yeah… not wanting to be in the picture would have been an option. Not going and sending Marzia a gift would also have been an option. And idc that it was Marzia’s party, okay. Marzia is dating a racist and that says a lot about her as a person so miss me with that “poor Marzia, they only went for her!”. I also really don’t want anyone’s concern. Yes, I’m having trouble coping with this but I don’t need anyone looking down on me for not just pretending it didn’t happen like the issue at its core is not extremely serious. It is extremely serious. I think this event showed a lot of us that D&P aren’t as aware of their privilege as we wanted to believe they were and that’s a shock. And it’s absolutely valid to be upset about this, especially if you’re someone who is directly affected by Felix’s ongoing racist, anti-semitic and homophobic behaviour. I really don’t need anyone yelling from their high horse how irrational the reactions to this are and how concerned they are about people reacting this strongly. If this doesn’t affect you, good for you. I’m going to quote captainspacecoat and kuensukki who’ve already said what I think about this.

It doesn't hurt to just show a little empathy for the people who are upset by this, and to recognise that for many people it is really hard for them to move forward from this. I don't think it's so much "people's inability to cope with their favourite doing something stupid/offensive/they just don't like", but rather people being rightfully disappointed that two people we had pinned to be socially aware, empathetic, decent people would turn around and do something that goes against the most basic standards we should all try to live our lives by - don't associate with racists.

How bout we stop insensitive posts about our inability to cope, or our overreactions. At this point im indifferent to dp and appalled by the phandom and their insensitivity to this issue. People on tumblr and twitter are actually offended that dp are even being called out about this. Like sorry Barbara that racial issues don't affect you but it doesn't mean we tape our mouths shut and not openly discuss and cope about it.

[goingbackto505]

I loved Phil's video tbh, it made me laugh and most importantly didn't add to my stress/anxiety and just generally I think it was a lot better than his video about taking tests, which was definitely a total filler. idk, Phil's naturally funny and he usually always manages to lighten up my mood, so I can thank him for that.
I guess after the way everyone in the youtube community "dealt" with Felix after the "death to all jews" and "hitler did absolutely nothing wrong" thing, I realized that youtubers just will not publicly go against him (even though Sean/Jack tried). in fact, apparently I should just be glad that Dan and Phil are one of the few bigger/more influential youtubers who didn't openly praise him after he made one of his shitty non-apology videos where he didn't apologize at all and where there was no remorse, just pure anger/smugness directed at disney, youtube, wsj, sjws (and, of course, J.K. Rowling). as a jewish person, I was hurt by his actions and was actually scared by just how many antisemites, xenophobes and racists have openly expressed their support towards him and were laughing along with him and his "jokes". I was told to stfu or that 'context matters', or that I should 'drink bleach', etc after I tried to express that, every other youtuber was basically saying the same thing in their videos made in support towards 'poor Felix' who was absolutely unfairly attacked by the evil media. youtubers like Idubbbz exist, keemstar exists, and they have many fans and followers, so I've always viewed DnP as harmless and non-hateful people who don't want to partake in any controversy or express any real opinions (the latter can annoy me from time to time). I absolutely didn't expect for them to drop Felix, it's obvious they're far too comfortable in their positions as it is to change anything, they're 'such good friends with him' and Felix has far too many useful connections for them to just cut ties with him, bla bla etc etc. for the most part, they're doing what's beneficial for their careers and are highkey afraid of Felix's influence. that's why I'll be really surprised if Dan even talked to him at all, though it's not like both Dan and Phil don't have their motives there. pretty much all the youtubers think that he's not a racist, but just a dumbass, but I don't care if that's the case, the scary thing is the kind of people who now admire him and the things he keeps trying to normalize and trivialize, he's a "dumbass" with the biggest platform on youtube. I guess I'll just wait for what they/Dan might say in the liveshow to let us know where they stand in all of this, but I really don't expect much. it's sad, but my life is stressful more than enough as it is, so for now I won't make any serious judgments.

[alittledizzy]

And I know you all see them as "public figures" but at the same time they are still just some guys, some human beings, socially awkward ones at that.

You are definitely right, they are just some guys. They're not guys I know, and I have absolutely no social responsibility to them. I think my expectations of them are actually way, way lower than my expectations would be for someone in my actual life, precisely because they are two strangers on the internet and the decision to support or not support this, to keep viewing or not keep viewing, is one hundred percent in my hands. Dan and Phil don't impact my job, my social life outside of fandom, my relationship, my family. I have to deal with racist people in almost every other aspect of my life and it always comes tangled with some long mess of 'if I publicly go against this person I lose this person and this person' etc and that shit is complicated. This? Isn't complicated. They did something I don't like, I have to decide how far that dislike extends. (And I am going to keep viewing; Dan and Phil are good people in a lot of ways and I'm very invested in them and their life. But I definitely don't think because I'm not unsubscribing that I'm not allowed to still express when I'm frustrated and disappointed.)

I'm just a bit confused about the strength of your reactions. Of course, I'm not feeling too happy about them hanging out with Felix either, but it's still not them saying that it is okay to say that word.

I definitely suggest you go back and read where kuen quoted nihilist-toothepaste's posts, because it is precisely about the fact that different people draw their lines in different places. To some, a person is okay as long as they're not using racist language; to others, condoning someone else who does use those words in such a public way is where the line is drawn. Just because your line is drawn at 'they don't say that word, they're okay' doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else's line to be drawn in a different place,.

But they don't need to be morally superior to the average person for me to feel this way. Considering the extreme reactions of a lot of you guys here, I'm just wondering what kind of transcendental beings the boys were in your head before all of this happened.

Do you really think "don't hang out with the guy whose entire career this year has been having to defend his racist and anti-semitic speech" is transcendental? Because it's definitely not. I don't expect moral superiority from them. I didn't expect a statement; I didn't expect them to publicly condone him. I don't expect them to become poster children for speaking out on any topic, ever. In my opinion 'don't hang out with a racist' is not some highest rung of the ladder type demand. They're not role models to me, they're human beings and this is one area in which I underestimated them as people. I'm now adjusting my perception of them like I would with anyone.

(The other thing in your post that I disagree with is the implication that declining the invite to Marzia's party would have impacted their friendship with PJ. It wouldn't have. This isn't a social group that hangs out every weekend. They see each other once a year, and as many people have said before - it would have been as simple as sticking a card and present in the mail with a "Sorry, we had other plans." I'm not going to quote your post because this is not directly to you, this is a general response to everyone issuing the same argument: They made this decision, there's no need for anyone to make excuses for them around it. If Dan and Phil are okay with still being known as the youtubers who are friends with Felix despite all the damage he's done, then that's what they are and it's not for fans to try and delicately word around to make themselves feel better.)

[SquishPhan]

Hm, I wanted to stay out of this, (especially since I didn't post in forever) but the doomsday mood on here is getting so severe, I thought the opinion of someone who didn't get disenchanted with the boys by this whole thing wouldn't hurt.

The thing is, you're all saying that if somebody does something hurtful and shitty, all his decent friends should just cut him out of their lives immediately? Leaving a guy with 50 million subscribers with only racist friends to influence him? How does this make anything any better?
And I know you all see them as "public figures" but at the same time they are still just some guys, some human beings, socially awkward ones at that. I, for one, wouldn't know how to completely cut someone out of my life who is tangled with my friends group. Phil has been friends with PJ for more than ten years now, and I do believe that the three of them do really click very well, and since they only get the chance to meet a couple of times a year and most of PJs social life in Brighton seems to include Felix and Marcia these days, cutting Felix (and not to forget Marcia since they're a package deal much like deppy) would practically mean mostly ending the friendship with PJ.

I'm just a bit confused about the strength of your reactions. Of course, I'm not feeling too happy about them hanging out with Felix either, but it's still not them saying that it is okay to say that word. And a lot of you seemed to only get really disappointed when the picture surfaced, although we knew they would meet since a few days before that. So what, you would be more ok with it if they had refused to be in the picture? Going all "sorry birthday girl, we will still hang out with you but we don't want to be in a photo with your boyfriend so our image on social media won't get soiled"? (I get that most of you are disappointed that apparently they don't see or care how them meeting up with Felix might send the message to some people that they think what Felix did wasn't so bad. But again, they aren't politicians, they are just human beings. life is complicated.) It's not like they mentioned their hanging out with Felix on any of their own platforms, so it's not like they're condoning his behavior publicly. Not that that's what I would consider a mere picture with him. They just mentioned the birthday party on the liveshow, which means only to people like us who would have found out anyways.

But then, I don't get the whole "role model" thing anyway, I never expected anybody to be without fault, even as a kid I didn't really "look up to" any celebrity. Why do people care that much about what some celebrity is thinking? Maybe I was a strange kid, but I think my role models were my parents? I like the guys because they're funny, I feel entertained by them, I think they're generally good people and I came to care about their wellbeing a lot. But they don't need to be morally superior to the average person for me to feel this way. Considering the extreme reactions of a lot of you guys here, I'm just wondering what kind of transcendental beings the boys were in your head before all of this happened.

Yeah this is where I am at as well. A bit disappointed in Deppy, but honestly not surprised. And I’m not really judging them either, since I feel that would be a bit hypocritical. I think they are good people, but still flawed humans (just like the rest of us). And I do also think that some of these reactions are a bit extreme, since we are basically talking about strangers (something that I need to remind myself off at times).

[rainydays]

Hm, I wanted to stay out of this, (especially since I didn't post in forever) but the doomsday mood on here is getting so severe, I thought the opinion of someone who didn't get disenchanted with the boys by this whole thing wouldn't hurt.

The thing is, you're all saying that if somebody does something hurtful and shitty, all his decent friends should just cut him out of their lives immediately? Leaving a guy with 50 million subscribers with only racist friends to influence him? How does this make anything any better?
And I know you all see them as "public figures" but at the same time they are still just some guys, some human beings, socially awkward ones at that. I, for one, wouldn't know how to completely cut someone out of my life who is tangled with my friends group. Phil has been friends with PJ for more than ten years now, and I do believe that the three of them do really click very well, and since they only get the chance to meet a couple of times a year and most of PJs social life in Brighton seems to include Felix and Marcia these days, cutting Felix (and not to forget Marcia since they're a package deal much like deppy) would practically mean mostly ending the friendship with PJ.

I'm just a bit confused about the strength of your reactions. Of course, I'm not feeling too happy about them hanging out with Felix either, but it's still not them saying that it is okay to say that word. And a lot of you seemed to only get really disappointed when the picture surfaced, although we knew they would meet since a few days before that. So what, you would be more ok with it if they had refused to be in the picture? Going all "sorry birthday girl, we will still hang out with you but we don't want to be in a photo with your boyfriend so our image on social media won't get soiled"? (I get that most of you are disappointed that apparently they don't see or care how them meeting up with Felix might send the message to some people that they think what Felix did wasn't so bad. But again, they aren't politicians, they are just human beings. life is complicated.) It's not like they mentioned their hanging out with Felix on any of their own platforms, so it's not like they're condoning his behavior publicly. Not that that's what I would consider a mere picture with him. They just mentioned the birthday party on the liveshow, which means only to people like us who would have found out anyways.

But then, I don't get the whole "role model" thing anyway, I never expected anybody to be without fault, even as a kid I didn't really "look up to" any celebrity. Why do people care that much about what some celebrity is thinking? Maybe I was a strange kid, but I think my role models were my parents? I like the guys because they're funny, I feel entertained by them, I think they're generally good people and I came to care about their wellbeing a lot. But they don't need to be morally superior to the average person for me to feel this way. Considering the extreme reactions of a lot of you guys here, I'm just wondering what kind of transcendental beings the boys were in your head before all of this happened.

I agree. I've stayed out of this so far because I wasn't sure how to phrase what I wanted to say without people misunderstanding or getting upset over it, but you pretty much explained what I'm feeling at the moment.
I'm not happy about them hanging out with felix either, it would have been such a strong statement if they hadn't gone, but I'm honestly a bit surprised by the reaction people are having to what happened. Especially because we knew they were going to that party and just a week ago people were disappointed, sure, but they weren't actually debating whether to leave the phandom or not. I just don't understand what that picture changed, why it had such a drastic impact, more than the knowledge that they were attending that party.
I would be far more upset if they had given public support to felix in any way (collabing with him or even just tweeting him in friendly terms), but they attended a private party, they didn't post any pictures themselves, they didn't mention him on their platforms. The only picture we got didn't hint that they are still friends with him. For all we know, they aren't, but they are friends with marzia and they were there for her that day. Dropping felix entirely (because I honestly don't think they are going to hang out with him a lot in the future, they already didn't before this happened) would also mean dropping marzia. There's no way they would be able to mantain a friendship with her, while at the same time refusing to hang out or be seen with her boyfriend.

Would it be different if it was pj or sophie's birthday party, to which felix was also invited? Would people expect them to not attend pj/sophie's party because pwp was there? Does it make it worse that it was his girlfriend rather than just a friend of his? These are not rhetorical questions btw, I'm genuinely trying to understand where people draw the line.

I also agree that I've never considered dan and phil to be some kind of social justice icons. They do some things, speak about certain issues, maybe slighly more than other youtubers, but also far less than others. They could've done something good, they could've done better, and they didn't. It's disappointing maybe, but I'm not going to demonize them for attending a party (privately).
I'm not defending them either though. I firmly believe that privileged people don't need to be coddled or defended, especially not by their fanbase, but I think maybe some people hold them at too high standards. They are good people, they care about others, but they're also just people, humans who will sometimes take the easy way and do things that are disappointing.

[mysterylovescompany]

Hm, I wanted to stay out of this, (especially since I didn't post in forever) but the doomsday mood on here is getting so severe, I thought the opinion of someone who didn't get disenchanted with the boys by this whole thing wouldn't hurt.

The thing is, you're all saying that if somebody does something hurtful and shitty, all his decent friends should just cut him out of their lives immediately? Leaving a guy with 50 million subscribers with only racist friends to influence him? How does this make anything any better?
And I know you all see them as "public figures" but at the same time they are still just some guys, some human beings, socially awkward ones at that. I, for one, wouldn't know how to completely cut someone out of my life who is tangled with my friends group. Phil has been friends with PJ for more than ten years now, and I do believe that the three of them do really click very well, and since they only get the chance to meet a couple of times a year and most of PJs social life in Brighton seems to include Felix and Marcia these days, cutting Felix (and not to forget Marcia since they're a package deal much like deppy) would practically mean mostly ending the friendship with PJ.

I'm just a bit confused about the strength of your reactions. Of course, I'm not feeling too happy about them hanging out with Felix either, but it's still not them saying that it is okay to say that word. And a lot of you seemed to only get really disappointed when the picture surfaced, although we knew they would meet since a few days before that. So what, you would be more ok with it if they had refused to be in the picture? Going all "sorry birthday girl, we will still hang out with you but we don't want to be in a photo with your boyfriend so our image on social media won't get soiled"? (I get that most of you are disappointed that apparently they don't see or care how them meeting up with Felix might send the message to some people that they think what Felix did wasn't so bad. But again, they aren't politicians, they are just human beings. life is complicated.) It's not like they mentioned their hanging out with Felix on any of their own platforms, so it's not like they're condoning his behavior publicly. Not that that's what I would consider a mere picture with him. They just mentioned the birthday party on the liveshow, which means only to people like us who would have found out anyways.

But then, I don't get the whole "role model" thing anyway, I never expected anybody to be without fault, even as a kid I didn't really "look up to" any celebrity. Why do people care that much about what some celebrity is thinking? Maybe I was a strange kid, but I think my role models were my parents? I like the guys because they're funny, I feel entertained by them, I think they're generally good people and I came to care about their wellbeing a lot. But they don't need to be morally superior to the average person for me to feel this way. Considering the extreme reactions of a lot of you guys here, I'm just wondering what kind of transcendental beings the boys were in your head before all of this happened.

Yeah this is where I am at as well. A bit disappointed in Deppy, but honestly not surprised. And I’m not really judging them either, since I feel that would be a bit hypocritical. I think they are good people, but still flawed humans (just like the rest of us). And I do also think that some of these reactions are a bit extreme, since we are basically talking about strangers (something that I need to remind myself off at times).

I haven't bothered to type up my thoughts on this whole debacle (and have scrolled through/past a LOT of pages, holy fuck), but I basically think the same. also bluntedclaws I see you agreeing and I keep nodding along to your posts, just wanted to let you know

I'd like them to play the spooky mode (or whatever it's called) of Golf with Friends. Also can they return to Dream Daddy after Spooky Week please and thank you.

[thewaytobehappy]

My empathy goes as far as knowing that it sucks when someone you idolize does somerhing you don’t like. I’ve been in another IRL fandom for over 15 years and I know that’s hard.

But Ding and Pong are actual people, and our feelings matter very little them. You are not entitled to police their actions or friends. You cannot project you social causes in them, and not expect to be dissapointed.

I know this sounds harsh, but I do hope people Will consider this, because this likely won’t be the last time they hang with Felix and co. It won’t be the last time they do something that offends you.

[alittledizzy]

specially because we knew they were going to that party and just a week ago people were disappointed, sure, but they weren't actually debating whether to leave the phandom or not. I just don't understand what that picture changed, why it had such a drastic impact, more than the knowledge that they were attending that party.

For me, realizing Dan strongly mislead the entire situation made a difference; not the picture but realizing that Dan phrase it like 'we are going to see PJ and Sophie, and also going to Marzia's party' as if the point of the weekend was Sophie and PJ - when the reality was 'we are going to spend the weekend in an airbnb Marzia and Felix rented out.' Somehow understanding exactly how Dan tried to downplay it and that he recognizes it's bad and tried to manipulate expectations made it worse.

[Loafer]

specially because we knew they were going to that party and just a week ago people were disappointed, sure, but they weren't actually debating whether to leave the phandom or not. I just don't understand what that picture changed, why it had such a drastic impact, more than the knowledge that they were attending that party.

For me, realizing Dan strongly mislead the entire situation made a difference; not the picture but realizing that Dan phrase it like 'we are going to see PJ and Sophie, and also going to Marzia's party' as if the point of the weekend was Sophie and PJ - when the reality was 'we are going to spend the weekend in an airbnb Marzia and Felix rented out.' Somehow understanding exactly how Dan tried to downplay it and that he recognizes it's bad and tried to manipulate expectations made it worse.

I think Dan was downplaying it a little, but he’s always been really vague about where he’s going and who he’ll be with, no matter where they go, so it’s hard for me to say for sure that he was deliberately trying to manipulate the expectations. He for sure was trying to do damage control by bringing up that he would be hanging out with Felix, but skirting around the details of where they would be staying is totally normal for them.

[nostalgic]

I agree. I've stayed out of this so far because I wasn't sure how to phrase what I wanted to say without people misunderstanding or getting upset over it, but you pretty much explained what I'm feeling at the moment.
I'm not happy about them hanging out with felix either, it would have been such a strong statement if they hadn't gone, but I'm honestly a bit surprised by the reaction people are having to what happened. Especially because we knew they were going to that party and just a week ago people were disappointed, sure, but they weren't actually debating whether to leave the phandom or not. I just don't understand what that picture changed, why it had such a drastic impact, more than the knowledge that they were attending that party.
I would be far more upset if they had given public support to felix in any way (collabing with him or even just tweeting him in friendly terms), but they attended a private party, they didn't post any pictures themselves, they didn't mention him on their platforms. The only picture we got didn't hint that they are still friends with him. For all we know, they aren't, but they are friends with marzia and they were there for her that day. Dropping felix entirely (because I honestly don't think they are going to hang out with him a lot in the future, they already didn't before this happened) would also mean dropping marzia. There's no way they would be able to mantain a friendship with her, while at the same time refusing to hang out or be seen with her boyfriend.

Would it be different if it was pj or sophie's birthday party, to which felix was also invited? Would people expect them to not attend pj/sophie's party because pwp was there? Does it make it worse that it was his girlfriend rather than just a friend of his? These are not rhetorical questions btw, I'm genuinely trying to understand where people draw the line.

I just wanted to quote your post and bold some of the parts that really represent how I'm feeling right now. They didn't publicly post about the party and this was a private event. The only way people would even know they were there (apart from dan warning us in the live show) was from Marzia's blog post. I do think its important to note that they were very low-key about it and far from trying to publicly yell their "support" for this man. And also, I agree with the part about what if it had been PJ/Sophie birthday and Felix was in attendance. Are they supposed to avoid any room the guy is in for the rest of time? It's just not realistic. Friends overlap and just because you are around someone, doesn't mean you agree with them.

For me, realizing Dan strongly mislead the entire situation made a difference; not the picture but realizing that Dan phrase it like 'we are going to see PJ and Sophie, and also going to Marzia's party' as if the point of the weekend was Sophie and PJ - when the reality was 'we are going to spend the weekend in an airbnb Marzia and Felix rented out.' Somehow understanding exactly how Dan tried to downplay it and that he recognizes it's bad and tried to manipulate expectations made it worse.

This is a valid thought and I really appreciate you posting this because it allowed me to look at it from a different perspective. I suppose I am seeing it from the opposite way so I will just leave my thoughts to offer another pov.
What if that WAS the reality for him? What if for him it was simply "we are going to see PJ and Sophie and also going to Marzia's party" and it truly was a matter of "i like these people and disagree with this man....so I will go but ONLY for them." I feel like dan was desperately trying to make that distinction in the live show but in a subtle way. (I feel he was wrong to do it subtly and should have made a statement loud and clear, but I do think that was his attempt). You said you dislike that dan recognized felix was bad and tried to downplay it, but for me, that's the very thing that makes me feel better in this situation. He clearly was uncomfortable and recognized felix = bad and he did try to downplay the whole party but....isnt that what he should do? Not publicly speak on it or loudly show his support. I feel like the way they stayed radio silent at the event showed they had zero desire to associate with him publicly. I guess I'm just looking at it from a different perspective. To me, I see a Dan that wanted to attend a party for those he does like (marzia, pj/soph) and felt internally conflicted due to felix's presence. Because of that, he threw the mention in on younow as a warning and attempt to clarify he was NOT going for felix (wouldn't even mention his name, said he wished to speak with him about recent events). And once there, never mentioning or positing about the event at all on social media. I see someone who recognized the wrong in this situation, was conflicted, wanted to keep it away from the public eye, and that is something I view as a positive. Not in a negative 'he was deceptive' type of way. But a way that showed he was conscious of not wishing to show support for felix despite attending the party. Just a different thought I suppose.

[dansnose]

the thing is that dan sadly doesn’t really owe us anything? sorry for being so blunt but that birthday gathering wasn’t a big public event it was a private event just for a few friends and really, maybe if phandom did less detective work on anything it wouldn’t seem as bad? i didn’t even know marzia has a blog if it wasn’t for ppl who looked up the place they stayed i wouldn’t even know it was a sleepover kinda thing and not just one evening/ day of celebration
also, i’m full on 100% jewish just putting out there before i say any more.

but in all honesty, i haven’t personally felt that affected by dnp hanging out with felix? i couldn’t care any damn less about felix (or marzia for that matter) i’m aware of how nasty he is bc i saw mutuals online talk about it but i’ve never seen a pewdiepie video and have no intention to ever watch him. i don’t like him, i don’t care for him, so i just ignore him overall and put my focus on what i do care about. which i know can come off as ignorant but i never saw the point in dedicating my time to things i don’t enjoy (also doing some hard work at therapy and in serious need of focusing on the good and only good for awhile, sorry).

i know my view of this is far different than how most of you view this situation and i deeply apologize i’m not dismissing anyone’s
feelings and i think everyone and their opinions are valid bc we all view things differently. but i just think dan and phil are not social justice icons they never were and never will. they’re great people and i love them with my entire heart but they are who they are and there’s nothing we can do about it.

Also, genuine question; i’ve never seen anyone say something about PJ being close to felix, why’s that? they hang out far more than dnp do with felix but no one seems to care? (educate me though bc i don’t know if they’re still actually close or stuff)(just a thing i noticed but????)

[plath]

^ this is not a forum for PJ. It's a forum for Dan and Phil.

Personally, I unsubbed PJ a while ago.

[leaveimreading]

just dropping in to leave this thread here

guess we'll see what happens in 11 days

[goingbackto505]

is twitter phandom that bored lmao

[plath]

just dropping in to leave this thread here

guess we'll see what happens in 11 days

Some people have way too much time on their hands.

[lishachi]

I don't think they should stop being friends with anybody, and obviously they still like Felix to some extent and what they 'discussed' or whatever Dan said he'd do with him is definitely their business. But I'd be disappointed if absolutely nothing is mentioned about it, considering he brought it up. I don't know about twitter or tumblr, but we've all gone on for multiple pages about this topic and I'm sure at least some of us would like some clarity.

I am not completely overly upset or deeply saddened at them hanging out with Felix, because it is their choice, and they made it. I think the feelings of disappointment got me more. But I can understand people being upset about it.

Again, their life and who they hang around with is their business, what Dan and Phil choose to say to him regarding it all is up to them, I just hope they did at least say something because it doesn't seem like something they'd agree with at all.

[leaveimreading]

is twitter phandom that bored lmao

they really are, there's at least 3 of these accounts 'predicting' things

EDIT:

translates from polish to 'to give you a hint, because you are STUPID. the password is 'itsmyurlwoo. ' '

and

'definitely not for 11 days, more like 7 '

[rizzo]

vote on the new thread name, plskthx.

[bluntedclaws]

For me, realizing Dan strongly mislead the entire situation made a difference; not the picture but realizing that Dan phrase it like 'we are going to see PJ and Sophie, and also going to Marzia's party' as if the point of the weekend was Sophie and PJ - when the reality was 'we are going to spend the weekend in an airbnb Marzia and Felix rented out.' Somehow understanding exactly how Dan tried to downplay it and that he recognizes it's bad and tried to manipulate expectations made it worse.

I just saw this as Dan's normal stalker evasion. He made it seem like they were going to Brighton so they wouldn't get stalked on the way to Rye.

[lishachi]

vote on the new thread name, plskthx.

21 votes for 'Come in my Lady Door' ...I'm so proud of us.

Also forgot to say, I love the smilies and the banner! So spoop.

[goingbackto505]

they really are, there's at least 3 of these accounts 'predicting' things

EDIT:

translates from polish to 'to give you a hint, because you are STUPID. the password is 'itsmyurlwoo. ' '

and

'definitely not for 11 days, more like 7 '

yeah, it's that time of the month in the phandom™ again

[DatCog]

vote on the new thread name, plskthx.

21 votes for 'Come in my Lady Door' ...I'm so proud of us.

Also forgot to say, I love the smilies and the banner! So spoop.

My suggestion!! If it wins, it'll be my proudest moment on IDB

[dans left hand]

dan and phil are over for me. not just because they’re hypocrites (felix), i just don’t enjoy anything they’re flogging right now

[malday]

dansnose, Some people have mentioned PJ, and that they are disappointed in him.

While i was happy whenever Dan and Phil subtly showed their support for lgbtq or other movements i never held them to be role models or advocates just for re-tweeting something or rambling in a liveshow, I just took those to be their personal alignments, and was glad that they weren't afraid to show them publicly.

Because i never held them to that standard and because there are several factors at play i won't demonize them for going to that party but i reserve my right to be disappointed and cynical. And i'll wait and see what they do publicly from now on.