Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by alittledizzy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:48 am

ijustwantdeath wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:18 am
captainspacecoat wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:30 pm
lurker wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:01 pm
as many others, i'm in a weird headspace right now and i haven't really figured out yet what to think. i've said before that i'd draw the line at them interacting publicly with felix in a way that sends the message that it's okay to condone good behaviour. however, the scenario i had in mind was more like "they collab with him or dan calls him something diminishing like problematic dad again and i stop watching their content". dan's statement in the ls originally made me feel like that wasn't the case, but the photo does cross the line i set, doesn't it? even is it's not the worst case scenario and even if the meetup was about marzia and even if they didn't post or retweet the picture. and that sucks so much especially after dan's latest video, and i can't find a way to reconcile with it (except wishing it never happened, lmao). it just really, really sucks and i'm disappointed.
I really feel you. I can't bring myself to watch Phil's video because the whole Felix thing has left such a sour taste in my mouth, and I can't stop thinking about it. And it's such a shitty feeling, because just a day and a half ago everything was so good and I felt so fondly about them, and I was so excited for Spooky Week and everything else that was to come. And now I just feel gross, and I don't know how to reconcile what's happened with the love I felt for them before (and still do feel now, really). Especially as my life is so stressful right now and there are a lot of difficult things going on, so Dan and Phil would usually provide an excellent distraction from all that. My dream scenario is that in Dan's liveshow they get bombarded with people criticising them for this and they're forced to address it and apologise, but it's just not realistic lol.

Never in my life have I wished they lurked on IDB, but right now there's nothing I want more than for them to read our conversations on here over the past day or so.
You're not alone. Not to dampen down anyone's joy but I didn't smile once through out the entirety of the new video. It felt weird and gross to turn the other cheek and pretend the entire situation never happened. But that's exactly what's going to happen. They're the kings of ignoring issues so they're probably not going to address it in their liveshows and if they do, it's going to be vague and planned - "oh yeah, marzia's party, that was fun, we played truth bombs and watched some horror, definitely not gonna bring up the fact that we spent a weekend with a racist ha ha". And the phandom will follow through, wait till the next gaming video with 3 seconds of eye contact or an innuendo and the whole issue will be brushed under the rug won't it?

All that was going on in the back of my mind while watching it was that phil can dish out a half assed video and still get north of a million views while other poc creators who put in considerably more effort don't get even half the views (eg, nathen zed) and if that isn't the definition of privilege then idk what is tbh. (not saying phil doesn't put in effort in his content or that there aren't other factors to his success, just that this video wasn't particularly his best and there's definitely a reason why most top youtubers are white.)

I just really hope this atmosphere of bitterness and lack of clarity doesn't last for too long and spoil spooky week and halloween baking for me, as dnp are a safe space that i cherish. But then again as a poc, i can't really stand to stan people who think of racism as an excusable character flaw and further contribute to a system that normalizes this behavior. whatever i guess, what more could I expect from two rich white men who live in a bubble and go to parties with other rich white men.

:furtivehug: hugs to anyone else who might feel the same way
I am sort of viewing this like making a friend and realizing you haven't seen every side of them until the first time you fight. I've enjoyed Dan and Phil, and what they've brought to my life - but this is making me evaluate exactly what sort of distance I need to hold them at emotionally. (On my end, of course - I'm nothing to them so the whole dynamic is one sided.) I was hinging a lot on the fact that in my time in fandom all their previous bad behavior seemed... well, in the past? And that they'd grown as people and both hit a level of maturity and social awareness. I now have to own up to how conditional that is and while I think that I will eventually continue to enjoy their content, the highs aren't gonna be quite as high and I'll probably be a lot less willing to actually defend them and support them and give them the benefit of the doubt when in previous situations I might have done.



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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by allsaintshowell » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:10 am

anonymousdork wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:31 am
missemma wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:34 pm
LtrllySusan wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:13 pm
The two flat theory can definitely be updated after this - there are two intercoms (or whatever you call that 'phone' that answers the doorbell). How big do places have to be to justify mutiple of those? It's the same model though, so definitely same flat/building. Also, that metal roll container at 6:37 is hideous :lol:
Haha this was the only thing I took from the video, flat speculation. That and the fact they must have had a washing machine changed as there is a box behind that hideous metal thing!
Other than that I think Phil should get a spon deal with Firebox. He spends a lot of money there.
woah, this is news to me - is this an actual theory, that they have two flats? What does that imply about their relationship? Sorry, I've just never heard this before... :o
they have what's called a duplex aka two apartments joined together; i remember dan saying it in a ls a little bit after they moved in! from what i understand, the gaming room, small lounge, and dinof space are in the bottom apartment with their bedrooms, kitchen, and large lounge in the top apartment.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by Reizam » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:43 am

ijustwantdeath wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:18 am
captainspacecoat wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:30 pm
lurker wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:01 pm
as many others, i'm in a weird headspace right now and i haven't really figured out yet what to think. i've said before that i'd draw the line at them interacting publicly with felix in a way that sends the message that it's okay to condone good behaviour. however, the scenario i had in mind was more like "they collab with him or dan calls him something diminishing like problematic dad again and i stop watching their content". dan's statement in the ls originally made me feel like that wasn't the case, but the photo does cross the line i set, doesn't it? even is it's not the worst case scenario and even if the meetup was about marzia and even if they didn't post or retweet the picture. and that sucks so much especially after dan's latest video, and i can't find a way to reconcile with it (except wishing it never happened, lmao). it just really, really sucks and i'm disappointed.
I really feel you. I can't bring myself to watch Phil's video because the whole Felix thing has left such a sour taste in my mouth, and I can't stop thinking about it. And it's such a shitty feeling, because just a day and a half ago everything was so good and I felt so fondly about them, and I was so excited for Spooky Week and everything else that was to come. And now I just feel gross, and I don't know how to reconcile what's happened with the love I felt for them before (and still do feel now, really). Especially as my life is so stressful right now and there are a lot of difficult things going on, so Dan and Phil would usually provide an excellent distraction from all that. My dream scenario is that in Dan's liveshow they get bombarded with people criticising them for this and they're forced to address it and apologise, but it's just not realistic lol.

Never in my life have I wished they lurked on IDB, but right now there's nothing I want more than for them to read our conversations on here over the past day or so.
You're not alone. Not to dampen down anyone's joy but I didn't smile once through out the entirety of the new video. It felt weird and gross to turn the other cheek and pretend the entire situation never happened. But that's exactly what's going to happen. They're the kings of ignoring issues so they're probably not going to address it in their liveshows and if they do, it's going to be vague and planned - "oh yeah, marzia's party, that was fun, we played truth bombs and watched some horror, definitely not gonna bring up the fact that we spent a weekend with a racist ha ha". And the phandom will follow through, wait till the next gaming video with 3 seconds of eye contact or an innuendo and the whole issue will be brushed under the rug won't it?

All that was going on in the back of my mind while watching it was that phil can dish out a half assed video and still get north of a million views while other poc creators who put in considerably more effort don't get even half the views (eg, nathen zed) and if that isn't the definition of privilege then idk what is tbh. (not saying phil doesn't put in effort in his content or that there aren't other factors to his success, just that this video wasn't particularly his best and there's definitely a reason why most top youtubers are white.)

I just really hope this atmosphere of bitterness and lack of clarity doesn't last for too long and spoil spooky week and halloween baking for me, as dnp are a safe space that i cherish. But then again as a poc, i can't really stand to stan people who think of racism as an excusable character flaw and further contribute to a system that normalizes this behavior. whatever i guess, what more could I expect from two rich white men who live in a bubble and go to parties with other rich white men.

:furtivehug: hugs to anyone else who might feel the same way
I guess what you all have to reconcile is whether them attending Marzia's birthday party is a dealbreaker for you or not, and if you still believe deppy are truly good people worth stanning.

I am extremely disappointed that they decided to attend that party. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I don't think we should ever forget it. But, after taking a step back and looking at them in the big picture, I remember a lot of the good things they've done as well as their growth into better people over the years (no, I don't believe they do it just for "brownie points"). For all the positive they've done, is this one bad thing going to make me stop watching their content? No. They are not infallible, they make mistakes just like anyone. Should we pretend it never happened? Also no. To err is human, but if the error is hurtful/harmful to those who follow them then they need to be held accountable for it.

Again, this is just me. They aren't perfect and I think they're making an awful lapse in judgment, but underneath it all are good-hearted people that can still learn a thing or two so I'll keep watching (albeit critically). Whether you believe that or not is entirely up to you, and if you find it's just too much then that's totally valid. <3

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by kuensukki » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:18 am

ijustwantdeath wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:18 am
captainspacecoat wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:30 pm
lurker wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:01 pm
as many others, i'm in a weird headspace right now and i haven't really figured out yet what to think. i've said before that i'd draw the line at them interacting publicly with felix in a way that sends the message that it's okay to condone good behaviour. however, the scenario i had in mind was more like "they collab with him or dan calls him something diminishing like problematic dad again and i stop watching their content". dan's statement in the ls originally made me feel like that wasn't the case, but the photo does cross the line i set, doesn't it? even is it's not the worst case scenario and even if the meetup was about marzia and even if they didn't post or retweet the picture. and that sucks so much especially after dan's latest video, and i can't find a way to reconcile with it (except wishing it never happened, lmao). it just really, really sucks and i'm disappointed.
I really feel you. I can't bring myself to watch Phil's video because the whole Felix thing has left such a sour taste in my mouth, and I can't stop thinking about it. And it's such a shitty feeling, because just a day and a half ago everything was so good and I felt so fondly about them, and I was so excited for Spooky Week and everything else that was to come. And now I just feel gross, and I don't know how to reconcile what's happened with the love I felt for them before (and still do feel now, really). Especially as my life is so stressful right now and there are a lot of difficult things going on, so Dan and Phil would usually provide an excellent distraction from all that. My dream scenario is that in Dan's liveshow they get bombarded with people criticising them for this and they're forced to address it and apologise, but it's just not realistic lol.

Never in my life have I wished they lurked on IDB, but right now there's nothing I want more than for them to read our conversations on here over the past day or so.
You're not alone. Not to dampen down anyone's joy but I didn't smile once through out the entirety of the new video. It felt weird and gross to turn the other cheek and pretend the entire situation never happened. But that's exactly what's going to happen. They're the kings of ignoring issues so they're probably not going to address it in their liveshows and if they do, it's going to be vague and planned - "oh yeah, marzia's party, that was fun, we played truth bombs and watched some horror, definitely not gonna bring up the fact that we spent a weekend with a racist ha ha". And the phandom will follow through, wait till the next gaming video with 3 seconds of eye contact or an innuendo and the whole issue will be brushed under the rug won't it?

All that was going on in the back of my mind while watching it was that phil can dish out a half assed video and still get north of a million views while other poc creators who put in considerably more effort don't get even half the views (eg, nathen zed) and if that isn't the definition of privilege then idk what is tbh. (not saying phil doesn't put in effort in his content or that there aren't other factors to his success, just that this video wasn't particularly his best and there's definitely a reason why most top youtubers are white.)

I just really hope this atmosphere of bitterness and lack of clarity doesn't last for too long and spoil spooky week and halloween baking for me, as dnp are a safe space that i cherish. But then again as a poc, i can't really stand to stan people who think of racism as an excusable character flaw and further contribute to a system that normalizes this behavior. whatever i guess, what more could I expect from two rich white men who live in a bubble and go to parties with other rich white men.

:furtivehug: hugs to anyone else who might feel the same way

THIS IS SO REFLECTIVE OF ME RN. I have been watching phil forever, he's always made me happier and I've always felt the need to defend him and his inability to be open about his emotions etc but today when I was watching the video I just felt annoyed/bothered. Every smile he did just made me more uncomfortable. It's such a strange feeling because I've supported him for so long and suddenly I feel detached and more judgemental. It's like the rose tinted glasses I've had for both of them have lost their lenses and I'm just empty. And we have so much content on our way but I feel like I don't want to care about it. Or it feels wrong to support people that associate publically and privately with someone like Felix. Also agree about white creators getting more attention. BUT people like tomska exists and he's fucking amazing at addressing issues and consistently being aware of his privilege, something dp sorely lack.

With dp. dan atleast tries but only on issues that relate to him. They aren't aware of anything outside their personal bubble and therefore they don't actually think that aligning with someone like Felix has consequences. I hope people give them shit but so far all the big phandom accounts on twitter who hold so much influence and get noticed by dp have brushed it under the rug. dontpanic when I was referring to the lack of racial issues discourse I was referring more to twitter. Idb is honestly been a great community in actually calling these issues now but it's harder to assume dp see this rather than twitter where they pursue the most audience interaction.

I guess as of now, I wait till tomorrow and see what they say but those feelings of discomfort are raging inside me atm. It feels really good to talk things out and I encourage anyone that's feeling conflicted to reach out. :love1:
Last edited by kuensukki on Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by cheetopapi » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:28 am

hi first time poster, but a long time lurker here with a really useless first post- can we find out where phil got his shirt? the stranger things hype in me is wild rn and phils shirt just refueled that for me.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by katemko » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:38 am

I would totally sponsor the liveshow or whatever it’s called to ask them about all this if paychecks didn’t take like three days to go through for me and i need food. since he brought felix up w/o much prompt i wanna believe he’ll talk about it if asked.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by Reizam » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:43 am

cheetopapi wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:28 am
hi first time poster, but a long time lurker here with a really useless first post- can we find out where phil got his shirt? the stranger things hype in me is wild rn and phils shirt just refueled that for me.
It's from Topman:

http://www.topman.com/en/tmuk/product/t ... rt-7101563

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by pilotlight » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:09 am

I spent the last 5 days driving across most of Canada (why is this country so big?? :( ) and I missed a lot. Few quick thoughts:
-The spooky headers are amazing! :stan:
-I have nothing else to add about the Felix thing, except that I don't blame anyone who's feelings hurt. I'm definitely disappointed in them.
-I did really like Phil's video though. The past 2 weeks have been super stressful and tiring and it honestly did make me smile and relax for a few minutes. :shrug: I dunno what possess him to order that costume (or why it would be recommended to him...what other blow-up things are you buying, Phil?) but I'm not sure what he was expecting. :lol:

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by kuensukki » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:16 am

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by psychicmoth » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:46 am

Hello idb, long time no poster here. I think idb is the only place where I feel safe enough to voice my opinion, I legit have fear to post about this topic on Twitter or Tumblr -where I’m far more active- because I have seen a lot of people defending this behaviour and honestly I don't feel strong enough to deal with anons and threads where someone try to explain me why I’m overreacting or some bullshit like that.

Also, I think lots of people here have voiced my thoughts much better than I could have done. I feel heartbroken, I feel disappointed, I feel betrayed. It’s shocking how powerful a picture can be. I really I tried to enjoy Phil’s video but honestly I couldn't. He always brighten up my day, always, but today he couldn't, I felt so grossed out and that broke my heart. I still love them, so much, and maybe that’s why this hurts so bad.

Today more than never I hope they lurk here, they need to know about how disappointed and sad we feel. I don’t remember exactly how big the discussion about the monolid eyes became, I have the impression this situation has become much bigger than that one and hopefully at this point they already know about our discomfort. I hope so. They handled that another situation well, they apologized and tried to find a way to fix their mistake. I hope they do the same this time.

edit.- yes, leela's post is perfect.
Last edited by psychicmoth on Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by lurkin » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:50 am

kuensukki wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:16 am
THIS POST IS EVERYTHING :stan: :stan: :stan:

https://queerofcups.tumblr.com/post/166 ... is-a-scary
Ugh that is so well-put and everything I've wanted to say and more. This belief that whatever pewdiepie does is just a minor "character flaw" with no real-world complications leaves a bad taste in my mouth. because yeah, dan and phil will never have to deal with any repercussions from felixs normalization of bigoted behavior to tens of millions of subscribers. but this isnt just your kinda racist friend joe who you can maybe scold and reducate about social issues. they've excused a man who has influence over millions and millions of people. and when youve excused the ONE man on youtube who should have the MOST responsibility for his actions out of all of them, you've excused them all. you've told everyone that this is ok. that this will be tolerated. that how they benefit from this relationship is more important than anything else and that bigotry is just a quirky trait that some people have and cant help.

edit: also fuck profiting off the "japanese aesthetic". they should be able to make good "aesthetic" merch without relying on the culture and languages of others. but with the new merch reveal that seems like too much to ask...
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by AroboticPhil » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:21 am

that picture has also left a very sour taste in my mouth and everytime i remember it I'm grossed out.
I agree with what someone said, it's very likely they'll just completly ignore this and let it go away (but if they don't, I hope with all my heart Dan won't try to find a way to make light of the situation with "problematic dad" comments or excuse it).
It's funny (it's not) that when phil made a collab with nanalew, who then turned out to have homophobic views, the response was way way bigger and everyone was talking about it and condemning her... arguably, felix and this situation are much worse yet most people are quiet about it, it really sucks. and the fact that DnP might not even be aware of how a lot of us feel because of this makes me furious.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by Sidile » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:46 am

Hi
First, sorry if my english isn't very good, it's not my native language.
Second, i tend to struggle with how to explain what and how I'm thinking, so sorry if it's not completely understandable.
Third, i discovered dan and Phil recently (begining of june)when i wasn't OK and they made me happy. But. I don't know how to feel with the recent event. One thing I'm sure is that I'm going to ask what in the world were they thinking this evening in the ls. I don't care if I spend money on this, i want them to know how disapointed and sad a lot of us feel. I have nothing to loose.

Last, i love you all. Have a good day or night!

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by thewaytobehappy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:46 am

I come back in the morning and my genuine concern for people from yesterday has become the usual resignment I feel when I see this occurance in a IRL fandom. People's inability to cope with their favorite doing something stupid/offensive/they just don't like never fails to amaze.

I highly doubt DnP will be very open to discussion to this in the LS tonight. This was, to them, clearly a private event they were invited to. They know that some corners of their fandom don't care for Felix, but beyond a "yeah, we know he can be problematic" I think you need to keep your expectations way down. I expect Spooky Week and the boardgame will be main topics of discussion.

Phil's vid was cute af. I didn't care for the last '"drawer haul" vid he did but I loved this one. The inflatable costume and little tree were to die for.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by captainspacecoat » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:03 am

thewaytobehappy wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:46 am
I come back in the morning and my genuine concern for people from yesterday has become the usual resignment I feel when I see this occurance in a IRL fandom. People's inability to cope with their favorite doing something stupid/offensive/they just don't like never fails to amaze.

I highly doubt DnP will be very open to discussion to this in the LS tonight. This was, to them, clearly a private event they were invited to. They know that some corners of their fandom don't care for Felix, but beyond a "yeah, we know he can be problematic" I think you need to keep your expectations way down. I expect Spooky Week and the boardgame will be main topics of discussion.
People are genuinely hurt, because the implications of Dan and Phil willingly and unapologetically spending time with Felix sends a genuinely hurtful message. It is perfectly understandable that people would feel sad/angry/upset/confused when people they admire, who they turn to for a break from the harshness of real life, do something they perceive to be harmful. And that goes especially so for people who have been directly hurt by this, and who have expressed the fact that they feel unsafe and unwanted by Dan and Phil associating with Felix (a person who is notorious for fuelling anti-semitism and anti-black racism, regardless of whether or not you think he actually believes what he says).

It doesn't hurt to just show a little empathy for the people who are upset by this, and to recognise that for many people it is really hard for them to move forward from this. I don't think it's so much "people's inability to cope with their favourite doing something stupid/offensive/they just don't like", but rather people being rightfully disappointed that two people we had pinned to be socially aware, empathetic, decent people would turn around and do something that goes against the most basic standards we should all try to live our lives by - don't associate with racists.

It's obviously a nuanced situation, and was probably the wake up call we all needed to keep in mind that at the end of the day Dan and Phil are privileged white men. I think it's gonna take some time before a lot of us feel like we're able to give a shit about their everyday content, and if that's not the case for you then that's fine but I hope you can understand why it's that way for me and many others.

Also, the more people who talk about this in the livestream tomorrow the more Dan and Phil will at least be forced to think about it. I doubt they'll talk about it, but at the very least I want them to know how hurt a lot of us are by this, and I want them to seriously consider the implications of their actions.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by FandomLurker » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:25 am

karma_yeah wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:54 am
FandomLurker wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:18 am
Hi guys,

I really hesitate getting into the Felix conversation, not just because it makes me anxious and I hate confrontation but also because I agree with everyone. I think it is one of those things that really makes it clear how much varied reactions can be based on different life experiences and beliefs and how valid they all are. I genuinely find myself getting where everyone is coming from, even those that disagree with each other. I just thought I would respectfully offer my opinion so I can be done with my own reaction to this being an, understandably, on going conversation. Maybe even to give myself a bit of closure, all though I think I will stay up to date to ensure that new information can continue to add to my own perspective.

I think Felix has proven that despite apologies, scandals, and "mistakes" he has not grown. I think he may have said something similar to this in his very short apology video. The newest one. I have unsubscribed because I do not have room for his negative antics in my mind space. That said the current political discourse and chaos where I live, in the US, has really shaped my perspective. I am mixed race hispanic and Syrian bisexual person, and all except my immediate family support policies that genuinely frighten and insult me on a very personal level. My instinct is to be angry, to delete Facebook friends, ignore certain family members, ect. And to some degree I do. However, something that I have more recently grown to believe is that by doing that I only cut off people who might need exposure to people who thing differently to grow and change. I could be wrong. I might change my mind. I don't know if there are any clear right answers. But right now I just think D+P and others who disagree with Felix cutting off contact means that Felix is only/mostly surrounded by people who agree with his attitude. He will not really be confronted with different perspectives.I think if anything it is important for people who disagree on things like his recent behavior to stay in contact to have respectful but challenging dialogue. I guess I just want to think that some people can change and grow and learn and if we want people to stop acting horribly they have to be given the chance to. I think Felix has said and done horrible things and profited from it. He uses his large platform in a way I find abhorrent. I do not meant to in anyway excuse his behavior or suggest you give him more chances or anything. I don't like his content. I also think you vote with your dollar, so I won't give him my views or attention. In terms of D+P we don't know, and we can assume and a lot of the assumptions are probably right, but we don't KNOW that they haven't had that conversation with him, we don't know if they have texted or called or confronted him and if so to what degree. We don't what he may or may not have done to reach out. We assume often that they filter information before we receive it, so we don't know if that has happened here. I don't mind assuming or trying to figure out, or processing or anything like that. Just food for thought. I personally need more direct information before my feelings about D+P change. I will probably me more cautious and aware of their actions. But I don't blame them for going to the party or staying in contact.

I do hope this made some sense and I really understand why people may disagree with me. These are just my ramblings to offer a perspective. No disrespect intended.

Thanks :D
FandomLurker Thanks so much for your well thought out and articulate post. You make an excellent point, that when people only interact with others who look like them, think like them, etc. there's little opportunity for personal growth.

I've personally been a little surprised that Felix (who I agree is abhorrent) wants to be around Deppy at all, as it is highly unlikely that they are heterosexual, and are most likely in a loving committed relationship, which runs counter to the beliefs he seems to support. Honestly, the whole thing puzzles me. I don't keep up with Felix, nor will I ever watch anything he makes, so I won't know if he seems to show any "character development" unless I read about it here, but it doesn't sound like any progress has been made on that front.


I also think they (at least Dan) is self-aware enough and consciously-evolved enough to have given the topic some thought. I'd love for him/them to address the topic. (not holding my breath though; blue is not my color :rofl: )

On a personal level, my heart goes out to you. The rhetoric I hear in the news daily terrifies me, (and I'm of the plain vanilla privileged class, just female, but still . . .). I'm very fortunate to live in one of the most diverse cities in the US, and I don't know where you live, but if your ever in a position to relocate, I believe you'd find it to be a place where you'd be welcomed with open arms! :D


Sorry I am just now responding. There have been a lot of posts to catch up on and emotions to sort through. I really appreciate your respectful and kind words. I agree with you. I hope maybe D+P have some character development from this and surprise everyone here.Which is why I think interacting with people you disagree with, in a safe way, can be positive and important. We don't know what has happened behind closed doors and locked phones. I am also not expecting them to respond and while it is disappointing and I wish that they would have a talk about it in some way I also am not holding my breath. Although blue is my color ;) I will say that I appreciate and love when people speak out and speak up and I do understand people disagreeing but idk if I really think in this case they are OBLIGATED. It would be great, it would be ethical, and all that but my investment in them is not based on it. Although I am the one that gets to monitor it. Like I said before, if they start appearing in his videos, putting him on their channels/twitter/instagram/tumblr/ect I will probably rethink and avoid that specific thing like the plague. And like I said before I really think I understand those who are done, and disagree, and see it as an obligation. No disrespect or shade meant.

I'm glad you are in a diverse city and hopefully in a place you feel safe and heard. I am pretty lucky with my location and to have found my people who feel and value me, and my rights. Wouldn't that be a hoot if we were neighbors.

Anyways, I did really enjoy this latest video. It felt like we were getting back to basics in a really good way. Although I do agree that it felt a bit rushed. I also thing Phil is slowly but surely making more adult jokes and maybe just very subtly shifting his channel to a bit more grown up. I can't see him cursing, leaving his PG style and whatnot but I think he is maybe working on finding a balance that is more adult and pg. What do you guys think? I am super nervous for tomorrows live show

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by Ablissa » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:27 am

RE: Felix
I love this forum and I love that this is the place where people can safely discuss things like that. I rarely say anything controversial, especially on tumblr, because I have too much anxiety about it, anon hate really affects me sometimes. Here, it feels like everyone can participate and it's a safe place for us all.

At the beginning of the whole Felix discussion, I tried to take a neutral stance, some people even disagreed with me, which I understand. I said that I understood them not immediately breaking up their friendship, I sincerely hoped they might voice their opinion more openly, show where they stand in the grand scheme of things. I said I don't want them to do anything to publicly support him. Let them stay friends if they absolutely must, as I said, I too have friends who are controversial. But don't go out of your way to show it off.

While they didn't go out of their way to show it off, they still posed for the photo, Phil posted a cute video, and now even I, a person who always avoids confrontation, feel bitter. In a way, it's thanks to you all. You've opened my eyes to the bigger picture, to how I can't really compare deppy to myself, because they have millions of people watching, impressionable young people who should not be told it's okay to support a racist person.

I don't want them to support him in any way, I want them to be the good people I believe that, at the core, they really are. I understand that they've been friends for a while, I understand they might be scared of backlash if speaking out against him, but (partially thanks to you all) I think it's a risk they're going to have to take.

I always believed them to be better than that, woke and aware of all the bad things in the world. In a way, they are, with all the charities they've supported. They don't only use their platform for making money, good things come out of it too. But I don't know...

I feel guilty for being so understanding in my previous posts, for comparing them to myself with my own problematic (not racist or homophobic, still) friends. Deppy get me through so many hard patches in life and I am willing to forgive them for so much. But somehow, I want more from them this time, something stronger than just "we'll have a talk".

I suck at voicing my feelings, this is a pointless ramble, but I'm right there with you all, even if I can't bring myself to be so severe on them (which I now admit they deserve). I'm disappointed. If Dan doesn't address the issue in his LS, or there is no LS, I don't know what I'll think anymore.

I hope they are better than that. I hope they show us that they are better than that.

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts, as I said, I love this forum and I appreciate all of you.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by nostalgic » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:38 am

wow I never post but hello everyone. I just wanted to chime in a bit because this is such an important topic.

I understand that people are feeling very hurt right now. I am so sorry to anyone who feels betrayed by dan and phils actions. I want you to know that you’re valid in your feelings and it’s ok to be upset right now. I too felt a bit sick over that photo.

But I also feel like maybe we should take a little step back and realize that not everything is so clear cut- right/wrong. What Felix said in the past? Yes, that is clearly wrong and there is no other way about it. But dan and Phil attending marzia’s birthday? I’m not so sure that should be immediately interpreted as “acceptance” or “approval” over a persons behavior. Dan clearly hinted at disappointment in Felix’s actions by implying he wished to speak with him and in completely leaving his name out of the narrative to begin with. He seemed embarrassed to even bring him up (as he should) and explained that they wished to celebrate marzia and see their friends Sophie and Pj. I think it was quite apparent that he felt uncomfortable with the situation. Now, I wish he was uncomfortable enough to just refuse the invite, but I do see how the edges may get blurred when you have mutual friends who you still wish to have a relationship with. No photos were posted by them and they remained radio silent. I feel like the last thing they’d want to do is to promote this man or to imply that they agree with his behavior. But he is marzias bf, inevitably they were in the photos posted by others and the damage was done.

People like Felix? Should clearly not be supported. But is attending his girlfriends party with long time mutual friends an act of support? I’m not so sure it’s that cut and dry. Dan and Phil aren’t perfect and have LOTS to learn. But the dan and phil we know are good people who generally try to do good and promote good. They may not always be the best in their execution, but I can say with very little doubt in my mind that they tend to mean well. they have a pretty good track record. If they were to go out of their way to defend Felix or voice support, that would be another story.

this isn’t me making excuses for them but more so proposing that perhaps we should consider that we don’t know the full story? We don’t know how they feel about Felix (the little we do know is that dan finds him problematic) ....we dont know what their thought process was. It’s unfortunate that their friend group overlaps with him and it’s unfortunate that the photo was posted elsewhere but I really really really doubt d&p would ever wish this to be considered a sign they support Felix. I kinda feel like dan is probably mid panic realizing that this has hurt so many people and wishing things had gone differently. Perhaps it will be a addressed tomorrow.

tldr: dan and phil are ~typically good people and hopefully this was a case of “I’ll reluctantly put up with this jackass for the sake of my other friends but I despise everything he stands for”
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by kuensukki » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:40 am

captainspacecoat wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:03 am
thewaytobehappy wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:46 am
I come back in the morning and my genuine concern for people from yesterday has become the usual resignment I feel when I see this occurance in a IRL fandom. People's inability to cope with their favorite doing something stupid/offensive/they just don't like never fails to amaze.

I highly doubt DnP will be very open to discussion to this in the LS tonight. This was, to them, clearly a private event they were invited to. They know that some corners of their fandom don't care for Felix, but beyond a "yeah, we know he can be problematic" I think you need to keep your expectations way down. I expect Spooky Week and the boardgame will be main topics of discussion.
People are genuinely hurt, because the implications of Dan and Phil willingly and unapologetically spending time with Felix sends a genuinely hurtful message. It is perfectly understandable that people would feel sad/angry/upset/confused when people they admire, who they turn to for a break from the harshness of real life, do something they perceive to be harmful. And that goes especially so for people who have been directly hurt by this, and who have expressed the fact that they feel unsafe and unwanted by Dan and Phil associating with Felix (a person who is notorious for fuelling anti-semitism and anti-black racism, regardless of whether or not you think he actually believes what he says).

It doesn't hurt to just show a little empathy for the people who are upset by this, and to recognise that for many people it is really hard for them to move forward from this. I don't think it's so much "people's inability to cope with their favourite doing something stupid/offensive/they just don't like", but rather people being rightfully disappointed that two people we had pinned to be socially aware, empathetic, decent people would turn around and do something that goes against the most basic standards we should all try to live our lives by - don't associate with racists.

It's obviously a nuanced situation, and was probably the wake up call we all needed to keep in mind that at the end of the day Dan and Phil are privileged white men. I think it's gonna take some time before a lot of us feel like we're able to give a shit about their everyday content, and if that's not the case for you then that's fine but I hope you can understand why it's that way for me and many others.

Also, the more people who talk about this in the livestream tomorrow the more Dan and Phil will at least be forced to think about it. I doubt they'll talk about it, but at the very least I want them to know how hurt a lot of us are by this, and I want them to seriously consider the implications of their actions.
<3 <3 <3 <3 (i kinda love you rn) you saved some serious keyboard smashing from my end. How bout we stop insensitive posts about our inability to cope, or our overreactions. At this point im indifferent to dp and appalled by the phandom and their insensitivity to this issue. People on tumblr and twitter are actually offended that dp are even being called out about this. Like sorry Barbara that racial issues don't affect you but it doesn't mean we tape our mouths shut and not openly discuss and cope about it. Let me quote nihilist-toothpaste because these words really resonated with me and I really appreciate them:
a community of people who are more afraid to talk about the potential for racism amongst their favs than they are afraid of actual racism itself is terrifying to me. it’s unsettling. a community of people who would rather be angry, who would rather be defensive and class everything as ‘drama’ and ‘discourse’ rather than listening to people whose feelings are hurt, rather than exercising basic compassion and empathy … it’s scary. and this is the impact of dnp’s decisions. ‘racism’ isn’t just burning crosses or using the n word yourself or calling yourself a white supremacist. it’s a system that actively erases and silences the experiences of black people and other people of color, a system in which white people can do and say anything about nonwhites without material or lasting repercussions, because their network of other white people will always be able to put up with it, look past it, and protect them. dnp didn’t just make a personal choice, they made a public one that communicates that their weekend plans were more important to them than the people who may have been harmed by the person they were associating with. they made a choice to normalize this person and his career, to show that he’s someone they can still have fun with, and to communicate that message to thousands and thousands of young, impressionable, mostly white fans.
i mean theres not much more to say....
Last edited by kuensukki on Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by somethingsketchy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:47 am

anonymousdork wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:31 am
missemma wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:34 pm
LtrllySusan wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:13 pm
The two flat theory can definitely be updated after this - there are two intercoms (or whatever you call that 'phone' that answers the doorbell). How big do places have to be to justify mutiple of those? It's the same model though, so definitely same flat/building. Also, that metal roll container at 6:37 is hideous :lol:
Haha this was the only thing I took from the video, flat speculation. That and the fact they must have had a washing machine changed as there is a box behind that hideous metal thing!
Other than that I think Phil should get a spon deal with Firebox. He spends a lot of money there.
woah, this is news to me - is this an actual theory, that they have two flats? What does that imply about their relationship? Sorry, I've just never heard this before... :o
It was an actual theory discussed here back in September, though you can see how it quickly escalated into something less serious. :lol:
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by lurker » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:11 am

if they do end up mentioning it in the ls, i sincerely hope it's not in the tone of "we didn't know...." or "felix isn't..." or "we didn't mean to". i think for me, the only thing that would actually make me feel differently would be a sincere comment on why they still associate with him and clearly stating that they don't condone him and apologize for sending this signal. we know they're capable of it (see dream daddy), but atm i'm not very optimistic that the response is large enough for them to address it in a ls... which again, sucks. does anyone have a measure on what's going on on twitter/tumblr compared to nanalew or the eyelid comment?

also i wanted to say that i just read the responses to my last post when i caught up with the thread and it does make me feel better to see that other people on here (who usually share my enthusiasm and joy for the content we watch) feel similarly shitty and lost about this. i think we'll all find a way eventually to either disengage with dnp or to continue watching critically and vocally, but to reiterate, it sucks. thank you idb though for this discussion - i don't want to interact with phandom on any other platform atm, but i'm very glad this exists.
thank's you were great

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by clippedteapot » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:33 am

I've been keeping up with the conversation about Felix because it's interesting to see the variety in reactions - the opinion general stays in the same area (disappointed), but the expression of it shifts around a lot. Just thought I'd offer my perspective after thinking on it for a while...

I'm disappointed as well that they decided to go and see PDP and Marzia - although I'm kind of interested in how a lot of people seem to not...Care that Marzia is dating PDP? (I think? I legitimately don't know much about Felix beyond some general knowledge, the scandals, really.) But that's a messy thing in itself. But I'm not surprised, nor am I particularly hurt, that DnP decided to go despite the fact that PDP was going to be there, and that they likely played nice with him. I kind of learned pretty early on in life that all your idols are just people at the end of the day, and they're going to make decisions that remind me of that whether I want to associate them as the paragons of goodness or not. I think it's a lot...Easier in the long run to remember that these people are just people, which means they're going to make selfish decisions no matter the following or influence because that's just what people do. People will make selfish decisions no matter if they're influential or not - If we weren't like that a good chunk of this forum would have actually given DnP up and cut themselves from the DnP revenue stream, but here we all are anyways, and here most of us likely will be later one during spooky week and christmas and whatever else they do. (And I don't mean to advocate for ditching them entirely! Sorry if it comes off that way, I do think it's better to have a mixture of voices and opinions as to, if nothing else, keep someone from completely swinging to the other side because that's the side that accepts them. I'm just saying that people tend towards doing things that don't really rock the boat for personal reasons, no matter what's wrong with the boat already. It's stressful to actually act against the grain - sure, you can say whatever online, but I've seen people who are incredibly harsh online completely flake out in person and while I get why - it also just makes you look terribly fake, imo. Don't say what you can't do or can't handle being mirrored at you.)

For me it's a matter of categorizing and weighing - DnP hang out with Felix every once and a while (it's not as if they're constantly in his videos or mention him all the time), which is a bad thing, but also DnP provide enjoyable content, are generally positive and socially aware, and have grown a lot over the years to becoming more openly supportive of queer communities and mental illness awareness. The pros outweigh the cons, which sounds a bit uncaring I guess? Weighing race issues vs mental health vs queer positivity vs general public face. But I have to find some way to organize this wild world to live, and this is it for me.

DnP themselves aren't notoriously racist - or are very good at hiding it, if anything - they do things that I would expect of most "aware but still fumbling sometimes" white people, which includes hanging out with your one racist friend in order to hang out with your whole group of not actually (that) racist friends. (To be a little flippant, - everyone's a little bit racist, it's true.) Yeah, they're public figures, but they're still people, like I said before, I don't expect them to hold up as paragons, especially for things they hardly even talk about like racial issues. (They couldn't pull that off anyways, let's be honest.) They're good at some things and disappointing on other ends, I can accept that because that's how pretty much everyone is to some degree. As long as DnP don't become horribly racist - can't imagine them ever going down the homophobic or transphobic route, or anything like that - I can accept them doing something that puts them into a position where they are vaguely implicitly OK-ing Felix's nonsense because at the very least it's implicit, and while Dan mentioning it in his livestream was likely damage control over all else I personally appreciated that he at least admitted to being aware that hanging out with PDP isn't something that's considered a good thing. I really do wish they just..Didn't go, honestly, but the next best scenario is: went to that party, posed for a "cute" photo with friends for a birthday, then pulled Marzia aside later during the weekend and told her they really can't hang out with Felix anymore because he's just becoming a person they don't want to be associated with, but we'll never know until like, years later if they choose to do that. I don't expect them to publicly be like "WE CUT FELIX OUT OF OUR LIVES" because that just feels performative and invasive, having to tell millions of people you don't know that you stopped talking to someone you at least at some point genuinely liked. Like, maybe not for everyone, but for me it's hard to cut out friends from your life right away, fading is a lot easier and also takes a lot longer. And honestly, how many people would believe them and how many people would think they're being fake? We're never going to get their texts or personal messages or anything like that, we're never going to be given 100% confirmation, let's be real.

I don't think it's wrong for anyone to be hurt or deeply disappointed, and if this is a breaking point for you then that's how it is, and you're perfectly allowed that. It's not something I really think anyone should be blamed for, feeling hurt, and while I personally think some of these reactions have been particularly harsh in both directions - I get that how I feel is based off of my experiences and way of navigating the world, and that other people have a different standard/thought process/experiences. If you're having a tough time processing it, I'd suggest taking some steps away from DnP and working out how you feel without having them be around, so to say. It is possible to enjoy something while still being critical of it, because the world isn't black and white, it doesn't operate on any binary system - that's what makes it so difficult and unique. But it's good to know where your personal lines are regardless of that.

Sorry for the long post.

The monolid thing was a misunderstanding that caught fire, just saying. Asian-American here, he (obviously?
to me anyhow) was referring to the other eyes next to the monolids, he said the monolids were nice when they passed by it - I was really confused when I saw the "discourse" because to me it was obvious they weren't talking about the monolids as sneaky. But w/e, I deleted my tumblr when the site culture started edging towards fear-mongering and mob attacks. On a similar note, I do think their Japan merch is.....In bad taste, at best. Some of it would be fine if they just took out the JP text imo, but profiting off a language of a country you've never even lived in is unimpressive, for two white guys especially.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by 000dia000 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:49 am

ijustwantdeath wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:18 am
All that was going on in the back of my mind while watching it was that phil can dish out a half assed video and still get north of a million views while other poc creators who put in considerably more effort don't get even half the views (eg, nathen zed) and if that isn't the definition of privilege then idk what is tbh. (not saying phil doesn't put in effort in his content or that there aren't other factors to his success, just that this video wasn't particularly his best and there's definitely a reason why most top youtubers are white.)
Wildly off-topic, but I just need a break for a bit from the current discussion, as I've already added to it.
While I agree with you completley on the lack of popular poc Youtubers, in Nathan's case, it's probably because of his upload schedule. It's abysmal. Not the best example of the "ideal" content creator that YouTube probably wants, unfortunately. He seems more prolific and successful on twitter than he's ever been. The thing is, he pretty much says that he has difficulty making videos because of school, and that he doesnt make a lot of money from videos. I kind of wish he'd pick up steam and become a lot more popular, but something tells me that he probably wouldn't even like that.

(Sorry for hijacking the Dan and Phil main topic to talk about Nathan, but he seems more on everyone's good books now. People dragging Dan and Phil the last ten pages have started to look like a beauty bloggers guru gossip page, so strange.)
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by katemko » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:59 am

The more I think about this, the more stuck I feel.
With personal life goings-on, I need them more than I ever have this year rn. Like a lot of you, they're my turn-my-brain-off mode. I found them a few weeks after a close family member was diagnosed with cancer, and I've latched on like a lil' leech since. However at the time I had a lot of other things to watch for escapism, and those things are all gone now, long story short. Youtube (mostly them) is all I have which I'm aware is unhealthy. But hey, I'm a polsci college student.

I have ditched fandoms when it became clear that intense stuff was going on. Like previously stated, I'm a non-white lady (I have my own thoughts about the japan merch-didn't even notice the monolid debacle until dnp themselves apologized for it). Maybe the ethical thing to do is to ditch. But as childish as it seems, I don't wanna. I have their calendar and a poster in my room so they're the lil happy faces I see when I wake up and get home from work/class every day. The more I read all your responses the more I go "aw shit. yeah this is worse than i thought" and i worry if i'm a terrible WOC if i continue to stick by their side like a leech. i don't think quitting them altogether is the answer until we have more info, but i'm also not black or jewish. i don't have an eloquent way to end this. i dunno.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

Post by thatlittlepeachtree » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:43 am

Hi, I'm new, and obviously the best way to introduce myself is to dive right into a controversial discussion filled people far more qualified than I. Start as you mean to go on, I guess.

I'd just say that I wouldn't hold Dan and Phil to a higher standard than I hold myself, or one of my friends. I've never been a fan of Felix's content, but his recent behavior has made it pretty damn clear that we wouldn't get on in real life, either. He's not someone I would chose to hang around, and if Dan and Phil were still distant associates calling him senpai I'd be questioning their taste- but that's not what's happening. He is a pre-existing part of a group of friends, comes in a pair with Marzia, and I'm guessing in real life he's been fun to be around. If one of my friends refused to go to a good friends birthday party because her boyfriend was a prick, I'd be supportive but surprised.

Of course, everything is higher stakes when you're famous. Being around somebody becomes an endorsement, and being one of those edgelords makes you a face of a movement rather than another idiot with a computer. Without dismissing the feelings of anyone here, I'd just like to say that I think, regardless of the backlash from the fandom, Dan and Phil are not acting in an 'actively' bad or problematic way, they are just not choosing to make a stand on social issues by torpedoing what I'd think must be a good group of friends. And to be honest, it's my guess that faced with a similar situation but none of the intense scrutiny, many of us here would be going to that birthday.

I do hope that Dan is truthful when he says he'll talk to Felix, and I hope that both of them are vocal about social issues they're passionate in the future, including the kind of casual (and not so casual) racism that Felix has perpetuated on their platform. If they collaborate with him again, lets just say that adblock is coming on. I don't want to support that content.

Also, Phil's new video is super fun- much better than the last 'Things I Regret Buying.'

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