Dan & Phil Part 68: The Quiffening

[kavat]

Aaw I really liked that. They were in a playful mood, Phil could barely keep his hands and eyes away. Editing in a dog at every mention was funny.

Making fun of someone's name because it's not a common one for you is not funny though. Come on deppy, you know better than this.

[Stakhanov]

I've had an absolutely terrible day today so I was glad to be able to come home to a new video. I actually laughed out loud multiple times, so thanks for the mood lift deppy.
I have to say at the end of the vid I felt Dan's "I'm in a bad mood right now" on a spiritual level

Also, to add to my frustrations today, I (finally) received a reply from someone at IRL about my "Don't Talk To Me" shirt still not having been shipped. Apparently they are out of stock and won't be getting any more in until next week. Its frustrating because I ordered within about an hour of the online shop first opening and according to my order number it seems like I should have been pretty early in the line of shirts they did have in stock, but I feel like I probably got pushed back bc its international. Now I'll get my long sleeve, black shirt well into spring when its way too warm to wear it except for maybe inside in the air conditioning. Ugh.

Hm, yea international shippings getting pushed back sounds very recognizable. They should fulfill orders according to a first in-first out principle, especially when they have limited stock! Can't you mail them to exchange your order to something that's more appropriate to the season? I would hope if they ship so late they'd be flexible.

The video:

One of their better ones These little games where they have to guess and speculate together work well. Phil resorting to cannibalism made me laugh and think of ages past when me and my brother could end up (almost) biting each other when playing games on the shared computer. Where have the days of hotseating a game with friends gone
Dan and Phil have such a knack for bringing out memories of the kind of friendships you have (had) as geeky teens playing games. I'm sure it comes natural to them :mrgreen:
Good bants, relaxed atmosphere and as always they look way to cute together. More of this please

[Ataraxia25]

Okay this is the very first time i post anything on this, i have no idea what i'm doing!

Just to say that THIS :

Making fun of someone's name because it's not a common one for you is not funny though. Come on deppy, you know better than this.

I get that they didn't want to make fun of the name on purpose / in a mean way but I think it was too much.

[kavat]

Okay this is the very first time i post anything on this, i have no idea what i'm doing!

Just to say that THIS :

Making fun of someone's name because it's not a common one for you is not funny though. Come on deppy, you know better than this.

I get that they didn't want to make fun of the name on purpose / in a mean way but I think it was too much.

Yeah, it just left a sour taste in my mouth. I get that they were trying to make fun of themselves for not remembering his name, but the editing just made it look like "lol he's called something strange like kimono or mekano or whatever". I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.

[Stakhanov]

Welcome @Ataraxia25 ! (strangely ataraxia is already an existing member on this forum?).
Another one steps out of the bushes. Grab a Ribena and come sit with the campfire

I can't even remember where they made fun of a name (mustn't have registered it as a very good joke ), but even if they dragged my own name for 10 full minutes and made a video out of it, I wouldn't be offended. John Cleese (of Monty Python, and many other things) has this running joke of trash talking the Belgians for no reason at all. I always found this funny as a Belgian. And that's how most Belgians must have felt because i remember John Cleese being confronted with his "anti-Belgian rants" on a late night talk show on Belgian tv, and at first he reacted a little hesitant, maybe thinking he had gravely offended people and was now supposed to explain, but since the crowd and presenter were all laughing, he understood we got the humor in it.

That's just a general approach I take to everything Dan and Phil say. They almost always try to entertain us. I very rarely take them serious and whenever there is controversy over something supposedly 'problematic' they've done or said, I usually find it hard to see how people could be so offended by something so small (or nothing) and think they are just being dramatic. That's just a general frustration I've got with some people who may write one day write about how they think "Phil is so going to propose to Dan on stage" or "Dan has come out in this video and btw he's such a bottom omg" and the next day will (pretend to) be offended because one of them said something that they subjectively view as problematic.
It just reminds me that most of the outcry probably comes from (young) teens who are generally not known for having huge amounts of maturity and may not quite understand -or feel for - the humor that's baked into Dan and Phils video's.

[Ataraxia25]

@Stakhanov yeah i think they weren’t serious at all, it was a joke to entertain us and i’m not really very offended, it’s just that it made me frown...

for what you said afterwards : that’s one aspect of this fandom that i don’t like, i feel like there is drama literally everywhere and that’s one of the reasons i just go on twitter less and less
and that’s why i prefer going and lurking on here, people are mostly older and the discussions are more interesting.

[Stakhanov]

Yes that's how I understood you. I don't know how they pull it of but personally even their very mediocre jokes make me smile because there's just something about their dynamic that make the daft jokes charming again.

I guess forums are more of a thing a thing that appeals to older people to start with? IDB is definitely something of an age anomaly compared to the huge followings on other media. Is it because they were a bigger part of the earlier days of the internet, or is it because the format is just more welcoming to talk about things more 'in depth" ?
Anyway if you've been lurking for months you probs know that this forum tends to concentrate on the typical topics too but at least here you can finish a thought instead of cramming a lot of hyperbole into 2xx characters.
If Dan and Phil were to lurk here, this must feel as the most horrible place on the internet for them because I imagine it's one thing to read a completely silly comment on twitter but it must be much more harrowing to see other people write out whole paragraphs in which they speculate a bunch about your behavior, construct whole theories around it and start detailed conversations about it that become pages and pages of (well intended, supportive) gossip

[Birdie]

I'm mostly confused why if it's a room inside of their apartment building they would need to go through the snow to get to it. I'm from the U.S. and everywhere I've lived the garbage/dumpster/place you take the trash out to is just outside by the road, so I'm unclear on this bin 'room' concept.

I mean, it just depends on your apartment building. My last apartment house's bin room was across the parking lot so taking out the trash was a ten minute trip, which is fun in the Norwegian winter. So the bin room doesn't have to be located in the apartment building itself, it's very often a shed or something on the premises.

Anyways, I came online for this:

It just reminds me that most of the outcry probably comes from (young) teens who are generally not known for having huge amounts of maturity and may not quite understand -or feel for - the humor that's baked into Dan and Phils video's.

So noticing racist mechanisms and micro aggressions is now something only young teens do because they don't get humour? Come on, please. Just because a problem doesn't affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. Making fun of "weird" names from other cultures is not a cool thing to do. Good for you if you're not offended by that, but don't belittle the reactions of other people, especially from non-western cultures for not liking having their names ridiculed on top of everything else. That's not humour. That's racist. I'm not saying Dan and Phil are racist but that joke sure played into racist ideas of white sounding names being normal and non-white sounding names being weird or hard to remember. Like, if they'd just said "Hey, I can't remember the one guy's name, let me look it up quick" that would have been a whole different deal. But "Lol, it sounds like Kimono, hahaha" is really insensitive. Good for you if you found it funny but try and see the bigger picture here. Making fun of names from different cultures because they don't sound familiar to you is othering and when it's coming from two white British guys it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth as well.

[somethingsketchy]

Hmm, which shirt is he wearing?

[hello9217]

I'm pretty sure that's his transparent jacket.

[lilabet]

Re the names. I read the joke completely differently. I thought they were riffing off their bad memories. I watched QE and the only name I could remember was Anthony and that was due to memes. However I can definitely understand why it would be disappointing that they riffed off a 'foreign' name when people never try to get them right.

[Stakhanov]

Anyways, I came online for this:

It just reminds me that most of the outcry probably comes from (young) teens who are generally not known for having huge amounts of maturity and may not quite understand -or feel for - the humor that's baked into Dan and Phils video's.

So noticing racist mechanisms and micro aggressions is now something only young teens do because they don't get humour? Come on, please. Just because a problem doesn't affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. Making fun of "weird" names from other cultures is not a cool thing to do. Good for you if you're not offended by that, but don't belittle the reactions of other people, especially from non-western cultures for not liking having their names ridiculed on top of everything else. That's not humour. That's racist. I'm not saying Dan and Phil are racist but that joke sure played into racist ideas of white sounding names being normal and non-white sounding names being weird or hard to remember. Like, if they'd just said "Hey, I can't remember the one guy's name, let me look it up quick" that would have been a whole different deal. But "Lol, it sounds like Kimono, hahaha" is really insensitive. Good for you if you found it funny but try and see the bigger picture here. Making fun of names from different cultures because they don't sound familiar to you is othering and when it's coming from two white British guys it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth as well.

Hello. This is not meant to be offending. Offense is never given and always taken.
This is just as a response since you seem to have a strong opinion about this. So have I.

So noticing racist mechanisms and micro aggressions is now something only young teens do because they don't get humour?

I have never said that is something 'only young teens do' and I don't view whatever you see in the joke as a racist mechanism and micro-agression.

Good for you if you're not offended by that, but don't belittle the reactions of other people

Are you saying i'm belittling people? Isn't that a micro-agression ?-I find the concept very problematic and of little worth.
I don't belittle any teens, but i can have an opinion about the maturity of the things I read about Dan and Phil at large on social media, and I do often see the signs in it of a young mind, still growing up. This does not mean I belittle them, however I can think what they say is silly and immature if that is what I think about it.

That's not humour. That's racist.

What can I say. We fundamentally disagree. If you'd like to discuss this, maybe we can talk via pm but all I can say is that, respectfully, we very much think differently about what constitutes a mechanism of racism, what can be funny or not, and what meaning we attach to the situation when Dan and Phil did this.
I don't consider anything they said as racist or insensitive and I think i very much am seeing the bigger picture in this. But you seem to have a whole set of underlying political and philosophical thoughts that make you say that what they've done is somehow related to racism and even leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. That's regrettable, and i'm happy it didn't with me because that would have made the video less fun for me.
I don't think it needs to leave that taste at all though, and i have my own political and philosophical ideas that are very much anti-racist and starts from an understanding of our shared humanity, which imbues us all equally with human rights regardless of race, gender, sexuality, (freedom from) religion or whatever else other ideologies may use to try treat people unequal.
None of what they've done in the video is in any way unethical to me.

[Birdie]

Maybe look up what a micro-aggression even is? It sure as hell ain't me pointing out that what you've said is belittling, lol. I'm not going to have this discussion with you because you obviously don't really wanna hear why this kind of joke is playing into racist stereotypes and behaviour. And by the way, I'm not having "political and philosophical thoughts" about this, I have experience with actual micro-aggressions, I have witnessed people making fun of other peoples' names out of ignorance for their culture. This is not a theoretical thing I just read about on the internet for me. I have seen this happen, I've seen the hurt it causes and that's why I responded to your post in the first place. This isn't just "young teens on the internet being immature about a joke". There is real life context.

I'm not saying Dan and Phil are racist. This bears repeating. I'm saying they've made an insensitive joke. They didn't mean any harm. It happens and it doesn't make them bad people or "unethical" or whatever you wanna call it. They're good people, they try very hard and we all know that. But that doesn't mean people who have experienced this kind of thing don't have any right to feel hurt by it. It also doesn't mean that anyone who is hurt by it or reacted negatively to it is just an immature teenager on the internet. That's all I'll say on that, I'm not really in any mood to take this further.

[dancy]

I didn't mention it yesterday but I didn't feel entirely comfortable with the jokes about Karamo's name either. I understand forgetting someone's name and I'm sure they didn't mean to be offensive but comparing it to kimono, meccano, komodo and various other things kinda rubbed me the wrong way and I felt like it went on for a bit too long

That's just a general frustration I've got with some people who may write one day write about how they think "Phil is so going to propose to Dan on stage" or "Dan has come out in this video and btw he's such a bottom omg" and the next day will (pretend to) be offended because one of them said something that they subjectively view as problematic.
It just reminds me that most of the outcry probably comes from (young) teens who are generally not known for having huge amounts of maturity and may not quite understand -or feel for - the humor that's baked into Dan and Phils video's.

Maybe I'm ignorant but I don't understand what in the world this has to do with thinking D&P made an insensitive joke?

Anyway, I'm guessing Dan is returning from Reading now? Seems like he was there for a couple of days.

[Stakhanov]

@Katka Well maybe you should look it up too? Because in reality people use the term in different ways and mean different things with it. If you define it as it has been here ( cfr the wikipedia definition) , I see no grounds on which you can possibly know what they were doing was marginalizing a group. I do not at all believe Dan or Phil were sending denigrading messages to the individual because of their group membership. Given that intent is lacking, i don't see how it qualifies as a micro-agression or as insensitive other than that is your assertion and opinion.
I think if anything is rather theoretical, it's the idea that micro-agressions should encompass the kind of things that are being said in the video. We all are part of many different groups and have many different identities, some of them marginalized. We all experiences micro-agressions throughout life. Which is not to say that we all experience them in equal amount or that they can't be harmful in any way, but given how much more fundamental rights are trampled every day for billions of people, and how experiences of feeling hurt by your name being pronounced wrongly by someone on the internet making a video clip (which is the concrete situation we were talking about), I can't say I particularly see a reason to care about it.
People on the internet almost always get my name wrong too, because it's pronounced differently in their language and culture. My language is not known to many of the people i converse with, so they tend to struggle with pronouncing my name. I do not feel harmed or marginalized because of this. As long as I don't sense people on purpose ridicule my name I think it just signifies the fact that they don't know Dutch. I feel the same way about many other words that people use to describe me sometimes. We are all extremely ignorant and mispronounce many names, locations or use words and concepts that have extremely negative connotations or are just plain wrong for the many groups we don't belong to ourselves.
One is free to feel about it however they wish so ofc, but equating the joke in the video with anything like "noticing racist mechanisms and micro-agressions" is imo more harmful than the joke itself.

"A microaggression is the casual degradation of any marginalized group. The term was coined by psychiatrist and Harvard University professor Chester M. Pierce in 1970 to describe insults and dismissals he regularly witnessed non-black Americans inflict on African Americans.[1][2][3][4] Eventually, the term came to encompass the casual degradation of any socially marginalized group, such as the poor or the disabled.[5] Psychologist Derald Wing Sue defines microaggressions as "brief, everyday exchanges that send denigrating messages to certain individuals because of their group membership".[6]"

Anyway, i'm in no mood to pursue this any further either. I've clarified what i meant and react to what you say, since you stated yourself you came online for this and we are all allowed to voice our thoughts. I do care for the perception that is made on a forum like this about what Dan and Phil does, because it affects what they do and share to some degree and I think it's only fair that the broad spectrum of thoughts is heard throughout the fandom -and society.

@dancy That wasn't specifically related to the joke, that's why i said it was more of a general frustration. It only related tangentially to the joke in the sense that i don't find the joke insensitive (or if it were I don't think it's really harmful) so it's another thing that some people would maybe say is 'problematic' without always looking at the things they themselves tweet out that can be deemed 'problematic'. But to be clear, I was just responding there to all of the things one reads in social media and which some would with pride say is part of the "stan culture" they are expressing.



So... that train picture It's done so well Dan is so good at making aesthetic selfies it's quite scary. I can't help but wonder what he's thinking about. He's said how trains bring out his reflective side, I gather times must be quite stressful for him with the upcoming tour and the dip he seems to have gone through at the start of this year.... I hope his view of the future is one that's (atypically so ? ) optimistic. Because from an outsider's perspective, i've gotta say I quite envy his position in life. Hopefully it feels the same for him.
What do y'all think could be on his mind?

[fancybum]

So... that train picture It's done so well Dan is so good at making aesthetic selfies it's quite scary. I can't help but wonder what he's thinking about. He's said how trains bring out his reflective side, I gather times must be quite stressful for him with the upcoming tour and the dip he seems to have gone through at the start of this year.... I hope his view of the future is one that's (atypically so ? ) optimistic. Because from an outsider's perspective, i've gotta say I quite envy his position in life. Hopefully it feels the same for him.
What do y'all think could be on his mind?

The comfort of his wealthy white male privilege.

[Stakhanov]

Could be, he does travel first class right?
It's a privilege that luckily, in Britain at least, isn't afforded by the color of your skin or your gender... but plainly by how much money you make or inherited from your parents. But it keeps the carriages nice and empty for the wealthy nonetheless...
And the crazy part is that most people think it's perfectly normal that's how we decide who travels in comfort and who doesn't.

[annetamiau]

I'm mostly confused why if it's a room inside of their apartment building they would need to go through the snow to get to it. I'm from the U.S. and everywhere I've lived the garbage/dumpster/place you take the trash out to is just outside by the road, so I'm unclear on this bin 'room' concept.

I mean, it just depends on your apartment building. My last apartment house's bin room was across the parking lot so taking out the trash was a ten minute trip, which is fun in the Norwegian winter. So the bin room doesn't have to be located in the apartment building itself, it's very often a shed or something on the premises.

Anyways, I came online for this:

It just reminds me that most of the outcry probably comes from (young) teens who are generally not known for having huge amounts of maturity and may not quite understand -or feel for - the humor that's baked into Dan and Phils video's.

So noticing racist mechanisms and micro aggressions is now something only young teens do because they don't get humour? Come on, please. Just because a problem doesn't affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. Making fun of "weird" names from other cultures is not a cool thing to do. Good for you if you're not offended by that, but don't belittle the reactions of other people, especially from non-western cultures for not liking having their names ridiculed on top of everything else. That's not humour. That's racist. I'm not saying Dan and Phil are racist but that joke sure played into racist ideas of white sounding names being normal and non-white sounding names being weird or hard to remember. Like, if they'd just said "Hey, I can't remember the one guy's name, let me look it up quick" that would have been a whole different deal. But "Lol, it sounds like Kimono, hahaha" is really insensitive. Good for you if you found it funny but try and see the bigger picture here. Making fun of names from different cultures because they don't sound familiar to you is othering and when it's coming from two white British guys it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth as well.

Not getting into this discussion, but when you say 'white sounding names' and 'non-white sounding names', do you mean 'English sounding names' and 'non English sounding names'? What's a white sounding name? (I'm genuinely asking).

[captainspacecoat]

Way late to the party as usual, but I enjoyed the gaming video! Thought it was cute and domestic and v flirtatious, and Phil miming biting Dan's arm was A Lot. Also Phil's hair looked so good.

Regarding them "misremembering" Karamo's name, I'm 100% with katka. Microaggressions aren't necessarily consciously intended to be racist, but that doesn't change the fact that they are racist. That's the point of a microaggression - often, it's little things that people who belong to a privileged group aren't even aware are harmful, but that have a great impact on members of the marginalised group.

Dan and Phil most likely did not intend to cause offence, but ridiculing non-Western names (or more specifically, highlighting how different the name was and how difficult it was to pronounce/remember by comparing it to other 'different-sounding' words, if that makes sense) others people with non-Western names. It's honestly so ridiculous to suggest that only "young teens" take issue with such things, when a) many people bringing it up are adults and b) what a fantastic thing if young teens are clued in and care about calling out racism in all its many forms (not to mention that many of the people calling it out likely belong to said marginalised groups).

[LurkingTrash]

I agree completely that making fun of a poc name or it's pronunciation has bad history and is in bad taste (exactly like you guys said, a micro-aggresion) but I have to say that my view (as a white person, and I'm aware of my privilege of the joke not having any affect in me) the joke wasn't meant to be about the pronunciation of his name but about remembering it? Which could be applied to anyone of any race they don't remember the name? I took it that way because: about 6:18 Dan says "whatever his name is" (exactly how he says in liveshows and other places when he's talking about anyone he doesn't remember the name of) and 6:21 Phil says "what's he called?" instead of anything along the lines of -how do you say it? and I didn't see a issue with them laughing about trying to remember a name
That's the difference for me from a insensitive joke to just a joke, but that's my perspective, I want to hear about people who have experience in suffering from this if that makes a difference because, like I said, I'm a white person and it might have gone over my head so I'd like to know if I'm being insensitive too and if it's just as bad so I can pay attention to it in the future

[rizzo]

Could be, he does travel first class right?
It's a privilege that luckily, in Britain at least, isn't afforded by the color of your skin or your gender... but plainly by how much money you make or inherited from your parents. But it keeps the carriages nice and empty for the wealthy nonetheless...
And the crazy part is that most people think it's perfectly normal that's how we decide who travels in comfort and who doesn't.

Anyway. The insta reminded me a bit of like... the cover of a dramatic 90s movies, give or take an iPhone.

I also never got a chance to respond to yesterday's video, but I agree with everyone in that it was really adorable and casual and I was living for how close Phil just naturally kept getting to Dan. Makes me realize how hard he tried to distance himself for years prior. (Awful #tbt to that time he'd just pointedly sit up and stare at the camera the whole time.) Also the apple jokes... I rewatched that like 10 times, they were so cute. That's honestly the kind of content I subscribed for.

When will they play fortnite again though?!

[snokoplasmic]

(Awful #tbt to that time he'd just pointedly sit up and stare at the camera the whole time.)

Pleeease don't make me remember that

[Birdie]

I'm mostly confused why if it's a room inside of their apartment building they would need to go through the snow to get to it. I'm from the U.S. and everywhere I've lived the garbage/dumpster/place you take the trash out to is just outside by the road, so I'm unclear on this bin 'room' concept.

I mean, it just depends on your apartment building. My last apartment house's bin room was across the parking lot so taking out the trash was a ten minute trip, which is fun in the Norwegian winter. So the bin room doesn't have to be located in the apartment building itself, it's very often a shed or something on the premises.

Anyways, I came online for this:

It just reminds me that most of the outcry probably comes from (young) teens who are generally not known for having huge amounts of maturity and may not quite understand -or feel for - the humor that's baked into Dan and Phils video's.

So noticing racist mechanisms and micro aggressions is now something only young teens do because they don't get humour? Come on, please. Just because a problem doesn't affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. Making fun of "weird" names from other cultures is not a cool thing to do. Good for you if you're not offended by that, but don't belittle the reactions of other people, especially from non-western cultures for not liking having their names ridiculed on top of everything else. That's not humour. That's racist. I'm not saying Dan and Phil are racist but that joke sure played into racist ideas of white sounding names being normal and non-white sounding names being weird or hard to remember. Like, if they'd just said "Hey, I can't remember the one guy's name, let me look it up quick" that would have been a whole different deal. But "Lol, it sounds like Kimono, hahaha" is really insensitive. Good for you if you found it funny but try and see the bigger picture here. Making fun of names from different cultures because they don't sound familiar to you is othering and when it's coming from two white British guys it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth as well.

Not getting into this discussion, but when you say 'white sounding names' and 'non-white sounding names', do you mean 'English sounding names' and 'non English sounding names'? What's a white sounding name? (I'm genuinely asking).

People react to names associated with white, western cultures differently than to names from non-western cultures, that's what I meant. I should have probably just said "western sounding" but it also has to do with whiteness. English names, yes, but French names too for example. Like for instance people will be more willing to try and pronounce your name right when it sounds "white" to them. People pronounce my name wrong all the time (It's not Cat-ka...) but they usually put some effort into it and they don't ridicule it. I have a friend from Turkey though whose name isn't that hard to pronounce but she had to remind our professor each and every lesson how to say it right and at one point he literally told her that she can't expect him to pronounce it right since it's so outlandish. (All the white people in our class rolling their eyes at her for getting upset over this are another story altogether.) I don't think he would have said that to a white person with a name that seems complicated to him. (The man can pronounce the names of Russian politicians just fine for instance.) Idk, I don't wanna get into this too deeply because it has nothing to do with D&P anymore but basically that's a thing that's happening and it's very upsetting. Here's a good thing on it from last year from The Mary-Sue.

I'll say it one last time and then move on because I really don't want to be misunderstood on this: I don't think D&P are racist. I don't think they would make any joke with the intention to harm people. I think they are lovely people who try their best to look past their own privilege, understand and do better. But that doesn't mean they can't accidentally say something insensitive. That's all there is to that. This stuff happens. It sure as hell happens to me too. The key is recognising what you did wrong and apologising and until now Dan and Phil have always done so when they became aware something like this happened and that's great, I love them, let's move on.

When will they play fortnite again though?!

Soon, I hope. I need them to really play it and not just hide away somewhere collecting stuff and talking about moving into a shed until they're hit by the gas and die. Nah, I kinda really want to see them win a round and actually approach other players and stuff, even if that means they die more often and have to play a few more rounds before they win one.

[Lucyrg95]

(Awful #tbt to that time he'd just pointedly sit up and stare at the camera the whole time.)

Pleeease don't make me remember that

i swear he didn't even used to blink he was staring at the camera so hard, dark times

[mm_sunny1993]

Regarding the misremembering of the name:

sorry but i feel like most are already making it worse than it is. For example i am white with a as some might call it 'white-sounding' name but people ALWAYS get it wrong or pronounce it wrong. So am i not allowed to be annoyed by it just because it's not a foreign name only a rare one and i'm not foreign? Every country or ethnic group has names that are easier to pronounce or remember and some were it's more difficult. Nothing about this has to be racist. They didn't make fun of the name, they just tried to remember it. If some people are annoyed by it because they think it meant something else then that's alright but it always comes back to the racist discussion whenever there is one little comment that someone hypes up. I'm sure some people wouldn't even have thought about that it might was intended to be a racist comment before they saw the discussion on here.

t.l.t.r: It wasn't meant to be a racist comment. Every country or ethnicity has names that are more or less difficult to pronounce/remember. And I'm sorry if I offended someone. I tried to be as articulate as i could and i don't mean to offend anybody. I'm just stating my opinion on this even if it seams to be a rare opinion.


Dan's train picture is nice. A pretty glow up from his last train selfie.