Dan & Phil Part 86: here, queer & full of existential fear

[daichii]

KING OF MY LIFE!!!!!

edit: this MUST be at the top of the page

[knq]

loves phil

[snokoplasmic]

MY BABY BOY ❤❤

[LtrllySusan]

It's an amazing photo, but the longer I look at his eyes, the weirder they look

[yellowsubmarine]

Get it boy!!! Damn he's WORKING IT
slaying hearts everywhere

[Ataraxia25]

I don't want to spoil the pic of Phil so

if anyone wants to learn more about feminisms and the different theories about it, such as radical and liberal, i'd be glad to help with some material to read and watch. maybe you'll learn about why it's not ok to compare feminists to nazis

I can't believe we're having this discussion. The user who said that used nazis as an example. If you prefer, we can use homophobes. Trans-exclusionary radical feminists who don't like to be called that are like homophobes who don't like being called homophobes. Still, you exclude trans women from a movement that involves them. Dan says fuck terfs and so do i.

[knq]

I can't tell if that's a real rainbow or the rainbow lights from Dan's video! Phil saying it felt look a good photo to share today sounds like it's an older photo, which I guess would make sense with either option, as Dan was working on his video for several months to a year and could have had the lights for it. Also I don't recognize the floor. Is it a stage? Were there rainbow lights in II? Why did Phil omit the endscreen from his recent video? Is it because he's transitioning to a shot of their forever dog in their forever home? IS THEIR FOREVER HOME FULL OF RAINBOWS?

Ahem.

[Amiaw]

I love the new pic. Too bad dan didn’t like it - he was online liking other photos when Phil posted.

I think the lack of end screen was just because of the type of video it was but honestly it could mean anything. I never know with these 2 anymore

[feenix]

GOOD LORD PHIL LESTER

[000dia000]

Honestly, a lot of "gossip" about them being gay or in a relationship doesn't automatically become true because of recent events. We treated it at the time like it was bullshit, because that's what it was: bullshit. We couldn't have known for definite the sexuality of Dan or Phil until they said so themselves. Honestly, it would still be difficult to express the validity of rumours now, after all there has also been so many counter claims that they were straight or not in a relationship (their relationship isn't a hundred percent confirmed now...but thats beside the point shhh). Hypothetically, if there are eventually rumours about them dating other people or sleeping around...idk they'd still just be rumours because anyone could make anything up. I can imagine rumours happening from clout chasers or antis who just want to fuck shit up. And people will be confused and like what if it's trueee???? as normal.

When I kind of brought up the whole sexuality speculation regarding them two, I was kind of basing my thoughts off of the results of the phandom survey and what people thought of their sexuality. From that, more people leaned towards Dan being the "gayer" of the two and less people were resolute of Phil being gay. There was more of a general consensus of him being bi/pan, queer, or even straight. I think this just may have been due to Dan being more defensive of his sexuality (2012 era) while Phil had always been chill and ignored the topic altogether. A lot more people probably felt that Dan had certainly something to hide while Phil probably did not. To be fair, this is quite a sweeping generalization, and very surface level of how I felt the phandom behaved between like 2015-2017. This time when I first started watching them, "phan" was an extremely popular ship on Tumblr and certainly had a community of people who like to ship gay men keeping the ship active for the sake of shipping (this crowd within the phandom either seems to have diluted, moved to more active ships from kpop twitter, or perhaps remain still but have matured, I feel like). Therefore, because Phil didn't seem to have anything to "prove" of himself, nor does he present himself as a more stereotypical gay person (of which more people think Dan embodies, to a degree) I felt like people were more inclined to think Phil was the "straighter" one. These carried into a heteronormative perception of their relationship dynamic where top/bottom discourse prevailed and phannie Tumblr and Instagram was saturated with stupid memes that Dan was a bottom sub and Phil was some Dom Daddy top (I'm sorry to bring this dark past of the phandom up, but from my experience currently in other fandoms I see so many real life people's whole personality be ruined by these bullshit misunderstood dynamics and it's really fucking weird??!!?? How did people allow that shit to happen with Dan and Phil??? ).

Anyways, because it was just a strange consensus that people came to (and from reading so many takes, I'm guilty of it myself) that when putting Dan and Phil on a gay scale, people usually placed Dan as gayer than Phil, and very rarely the other way around. This is my observation, but I don't think other people may see it strictly this way. Maybe it was my own kind of ignorant assumption based on these factors that I never really considered. That's why I was overall surprised by Phil being resolutely gay, I'll own up to that. Anyways, while they both identify as gay now, I feel that it is somehow ironic that it seems like Phil was the "gayest" of the duo after all, due to Dan expressing more fluidity in his sexuality, even while identifying as a queer, gay man.

This was a long essay, a lot of people will scroll past quick, but anyways, Phil's new photo :

[flarequake]

Stunning photo, how lucky to be sitting in the sun at such an opportune time

Also please don’t imply that feminists were compared to nazis. If not all radfems are terfs, great, but terfs were the ones compared (I’m not interested in reading about it, enough for my tired brain to do without that passive-aggressive unreadably-tiny-text suggestion).

[pearshaped34]

I hear a lot of folks saying they weren't surprised that Phil was casually out to so many people but I really am! Primarily because we've gotten so few (and none overwhelmingly... Idk credible?) hints or slip ups from people around them?

Ha, same. I mean, it's actually not that hard to be a decent person and not out someone but I'm still surprised so many Youtube people were apparently decent people, especially way back when a lot of people weren't aware how painful forced outings are. Then again, he didn't say he was out to everyone. Might be he was only out to Youtubers he was a bit closer to (like Cat, Louise maybe, Bryony etc.) and knew he could trust. I actually don't see him telling perfect strangers after what happened with his friend from home, at least not perfect strangers with a big internet presence. His local shopkeeper seems a lot safer because even if they went on the internet like "Phil's gay, lol", who would believe them?

To be fair Charlieskies kind of did out them (well at least Dan) and was a fairly credible source (as in he has spent time with them in real life) it just wasn't accepted as an outing by the fans because it was gross and against Dan and Phil's wishes. But really was there anyone who didn't know what he was saying with the comments he made about Dan liking balls and hinting he could say something else? And to give it even more credibility Wirrow even got involved to ask him not to share private stuff in public (which I don't think he'd do if Charlie wasn't actually sharing private stuff).

I get that he came across bitter af so there was an argument that he could just be lying but honestly it never seemed likely to me that he was trying to falsely out a straight man because he was bitter.

I also wouldn't assume most people didn't out them because they're so decent but rather because they knew they'd get backlash for it. Yes it would get them attention but everyone would quickly turn on them for daring to betray Dan and Phil like that. There really wasn't anything positive to be gained IMO. Although I have to assume people like Onision didn't know for sure because I kind of feel like he'd have outed them because he wouldn't care if their was backlash.

[liola]

I am seeing a lot of people here and on the other site saying that most people saw Dan as gay and Phil as bi and...where did this come from? From what I remember from some years ago, most people were actually convinced Dan was bi and unsure about Phil because of the lack of material regarding who he was attracted to, but a lot of us saw him as gay?

if anyone wants to learn more about feminisms and the different theories about it, such as radical and liberal, i'd be glad to help with some material to read and watch. maybe you'll learn about why it's not ok to compare feminists to nazis

Hi I'm the one who compared TERFs to nazis and i stand behind it 100%, and as a feminist who believes in equality and not marginalizing a group of minorities, I still say fuck terfs. Maybe if you learned to read what people say you would have seen that I didn't compare feminists to nazis, but I compared terfs to nazis! And radical feminists who defend terfs, just like oh i don't know, people who say they are not nazis but see no issue with their beliefs!

But sure okay, maybe not all radical feminists are terfs, great, but if you identifies in the group that belittles the existence of trans women and doesn't believe in their right to exist and live in women spaces - yeah you're a terf and thus you can fuck off I have no time or energy or patience for your condescending tone.

Signed, a feminist who says fuck terfs

Now, to cleanse myself -

PHIL LESTER YOU OUTSTANDING GAY KING

[knq]

When I kind of brought up the whole sexuality speculation regarding them two, I was kind of basing my thoughts off of the results of the phandom survey and what people thought of their sexuality. From that, more people leaned towards Dan being the "gayer" of the two and less people were resolute of Phil being gay. There was more of a general consensus of him being bi/pan, queer, or even straight.

Ooh, thank you for the reminder about the Phandom Survey. Data!!! I forgot we have data! (God I love you, Phandom )

The 2018 results are the most readily available. As of last year, more people taking the survey and willing to label them thought Dan was Bi, Queer, and Pan than thought Phil was. And more people taking the survey and willing to label them thought Phil was Gay, Straight, and Ace than thought Dan was.



There's an interesting contradiction there. (Contradiction isn't the right word but I can't think of the right one oops) More people believed Phil was attracted to one gender than believed Dan was attracted to one gender, but that applied to believing he was gay and believing he was straight.

(Of course for both of them the most popular responses were labels/non-labels dnp had used on formspring, I'm just looking at the relative differences.)

The phandom survey also has a comparison of beliefs about Dan and Phil's sexualities from 2015 to 2018, but that's more difficult to interpret because new categories were added each year.

[jesp]

Moderating

I am seeing a lot of people here and on the other site saying that most people saw Dan as gay and Phil as bi and...where did this come from? From what I remember from some years ago, most people were actually convinced Dan was bi and unsure about Phil because of the lack of material regarding who he was attracted to, but a lot of us saw him as gay?

if anyone wants to learn more about feminisms and the different theories about it, such as radical and liberal, i'd be glad to help with some material to read and watch. maybe you'll learn about why it's not ok to compare feminists to nazis

Hi I'm the one who compared TERFs to nazis and i stand behind it 100%, and as a feminist who believes in equality and not marginalizing a group of minorities, I still say fuck terfs. Maybe if you learned to read what people say you would have seen that I didn't compare feminists to nazis, but I compared terfs to nazis! And radical feminists who defend terfs, just like oh i don't know, people who say they are not nazis but see no issue with their beliefs!

But sure okay, maybe not all radical feminists are terfs, great, but if you identifies in the group that belittles the existence of trans women and doesn't believe in their right to exist and live in women spaces - yeah you're a terf and thus you can fuck off I have no time or energy or patience for your condescending tone.

Signed, a feminist who says fuck terfs

Now, to cleanse myself -

PHIL LESTER YOU OUTSTANDING GAY KING

liola, please don't tell other users to fuck off.

I fully recognise that this is a contentious and deeply personal subject to many people, and that emotions often run high during these discussions, but I would like to ask everyone to keep the discussion as civil as possible and the tone in your posts appropriate for the forum.

I'm happy for the conversation to continue as it does relate to Dan's video, and because I {and the other mods} believe it is an important discussion to be had. Discussions like this help people learn and change, and hopefully lead to a more inclusive environment in the LGBTQ community and the world at large.

[obvsly]

I love the new pic. Too bad dan didn’t like it - he was online liking other photos when Phil posted.

Probably because he took it? When I take pictures for friends and they post those on social media, I rarely like them either. I’d be like you’re complimenting your own photography skills lol. I hope dan really was the one taking it anyway.

And, a bit sorry to wade in but the TERFs debate, I just don’t get it. I’m in the fuck terfs camp myself, just to clarify. If you’re not the TE part of the term, then there should be no need to be offended? Being RFs is fine and all. It’s the TE part that is just wrong. Thank you.

PS. I love phil.

[lilabet]

PJ

[plinthofmylife]

Our king is #2 on trending even with a sub-10 minute video. So freaking proud of Phil.

ETA: I am a rainbow nerd for this post. How perfect!

[wells.kai]

I can't tell if that's a real rainbow or the rainbow lights from Dan's video! Phil saying it felt look a good photo to share today sounds like it's an older photo, which I guess would make sense with either option, as Dan was working on his video for several months to a year and could have had the lights for it. Also I don't recognize the floor. Is it a stage? Were there rainbow lights in II? Why did Phil omit the endscreen from his recent video? Is it because he's transitioning to a shot of their forever dog in their forever home? IS THEIR FOREVER HOME FULL OF RAINBOWS?

Ahem.

this

[bevioletsky]

I feel like there’s a difference between Phil casually coming out to that nice lady from the shop near his parents’ house that he sees a few times a year and who keeps asking him about his life (imaginary scenario obvs) and coming out to other youtubers, or folks at the BBC or such. The former kind of person would probably not have much of an incentive to gossip about Phil and/or dnp. They’re internet famous, and while I think especially in the UK relevant enough to have lots of people kind of be aware of their existence, they’re not traditional celebrities and even many of the people who maybe have heard of them aren’t interested in and knowledgeable enough of their careers and their history to start ~spreading rumours and therefore for it to feel like too much of a risk to sometimes come out to some people. But I doubt Phil has literally been coming out to the mailman and their cousin, or that he was explicitly out to other youtubers and internet people (after a certain point in time), to protect Dan and their relationship. At least it seems like an unlikely scenario to me.

Did that make sense? Idk. Nice photo, Phil, love the lights

if anyone wants to learn more about feminisms and the different theories about it, such as radical and liberal, i'd be glad to help with some material to read and watch. maybe you'll learn about why it's not ok to compare feminists to nazis

The thing that has rubbed me wrong the most from the very beginning is this condescending attitude of yours - that Dan doesn’t know what he is talking about when he says no thank you to TERFs; that we on this forum aren’t educated enough on feminism when most of us say fuck TERFs. I don’t have much interest in getting into a debate about TERFs and radical feminism. They exclude transpeople from their feminism and are outright transphobic: fuck them. Saying people are equating feminists in general and nazis by bringing nazis up misses the point: TERFs don’t tend to like being called TERFs because they think it’s a slur, which it isn’t, kind of like nazis don’t like being called nazis or racists don’t like being called racists, and all these groups then come up with alternative, euphemistic terms for themselves to make themselves more presentable and acceptable to other people. And the fact that it irked you when Dan mentioned TERFs in his video? Uhhhh makes me kind of suspicious.

I promised myself I wouldn’t comment on this topic anymore but perhaps this was actually the last time.

[000dia000]

When I kind of brought up the whole sexuality speculation regarding them two, I was kind of basing my thoughts off of the results of the phandom survey and what people thought of their sexuality. From that, more people leaned towards Dan being the "gayer" of the two and less people were resolute of Phil being gay. There was more of a general consensus of him being bi/pan, queer, or even straight.

Ooh, thank you for the reminder about the Phandom Survey. Data!!! I forgot we have data! (God I love you, Phandom )

The 2018 results are the most readily available. As of last year, more people taking the survey and willing to label them thought Dan was Bi, Queer, and Pan than thought Phil was. And more people taking the survey and willing to label them thought Phil was Gay, Straight, and Ace than thought Dan was.



There's an interesting contradiction there. (Contradiction isn't the right word but I can't think of the right one oops) More people believed Phil was attracted to one gender than believed Dan was attracted to one gender, but that applied to believing he was gay and believing he was straight.

(Of course for both of them the most popular responses were labels/non-labels dnp had used on formspring, I'm just looking at the relative differences.)

The phandom survey also has a comparison of beliefs about Dan and Phil's sexualities from 2015 to 2018, but that's more difficult to interpret because new categories were added each year.

Oops. While I was right remembering the bi and straight thing, I was a little wrong on the gay thing. Maybe it was different other years. I just felt less people perceived Phil as "gay" based on his interactions with women. I guess I might need to review my argument a little. Thanks for actually bringing the receipts lmao.

[sonicgreen]

KING OF MY LIFE!!!!!

edit: this MUST be at the top of the page

sorry im dragging this for the THIRD TIME onto this page. I'm emotional. Hes too good. I'm proud, I'm happy, I'm excited. psst, im still v much a sucker for phil hes too pretty

[Possum]

Phil's photo is so lovely

...I have nothing of substance to add to current discussions. I'm just still really really happy and proud of both of them.

[obsessivelymoody]

God Phil looks amazing. (I didnt even notice that pun until I went to hit post lmao) I agree with other people saying he seems like there's been a weight lifted. I don't think as much as Dan, but they've had different experiences and feelings throughout it. I do love that neither of them have been subtle though. With knowing that Phil's been out for so long it's hilarious to look back on all those Male attraction mentions, especially in the last couple of years. The man is relentless and I LOVE IT.

Anyway. Happy to see them happy and gay

[AroboticPhil]

ahhh love gaymazing phil ft rainbow
i still haven't process so many parts of that video but mostly the way phil says he's gay so casually, openly and confidently. every time he says i'm gay it adds 5 years to my lifespan. i'm just so surprised (but in a great way) at how confident/open about his sexuality he is and seeing his friends comment "i'm so happy for you phil" makes me emotional, especially ones like PJ who definitely knew him to be proudly out and who are happy because he gets to share that publicly now.
also i hope this is not overstepping into their privates lives too much but from both videos, it really looks like phil didn't come out before because he/they felt that wouldn't be ok for dan and wow. their supportivness and bond
finally : i really really hope phil will share the gay jokes he definitely makes with us now (tho he already did to some extent) that's all i'm looking forward tho. and a gaming viddy preferably devan wedding. and a pride selfie. and cute travel insta stories. ahhh im looking forward to post coming out universe so much