Dan & Phil Part 97: Arch enemies and Husbands

[Susanisnotafish]

Hadn't seen anyone post this yet, Phil was in some short clips of a Thomas Sanders video:

Phil clips:
'rollercoasters' 4:33
'NO' 4:48
talking abt greenscreen 15:15
'hippo' 15:34
'banana' 15:42

Thanks for the time stamps! I watched the whole vid, but stopped at the promo, then noticed your time stamps and went back to catch those final Phil bits!

[alittledizzy]

Okay thank you I just cry laughed at that madlibs video and that is exactly what my morning needed.

[adorally]

Hi guys this is incredibly random, but would any of y'all know what video this conversation is from?

Phil is talking about scalies and he's like "You're all, you're all valid!!!" and Dan interrupts him by saying, "Oh they're VALID, are they?" I think they were playing a video game, and I think this video is from when they were on tour...

wHY has this dialogue been stuck in my head for the past week?? I'm not even a scaly, or at least I haven't bothered finding out otherwise. Please find this conversation for me so that I can forget. God bless.

[madzilla84]

That sounds a bit like this bit from the Heartthrob video, at 12:55, though that was about furries:

D: You know there's like a hundred thousand furries watching this, and you've just offended them-
P: I know you're relevant, I'm just saying, back in the day-
D: Oh they're relevant, are they? Okay, the furry fandom needs to have a problem with amazingphil

https://youtu.be/s_w0KwquhKU?t=775

[adorally]

That sounds a bit like this bit from the Heartthrob video, at 12:55, though that was about furries:

D: You know there's like a hundred thousand furries watching this, and you've just offended them-
P: I know you're relevant, I'm just saying, back in the day-
D: Oh they're relevant, are they? Okay, the furry fandom needs to have a problem with amazingphil

https://youtu.be/s_w0KwquhKU?t=775

omfg that's exactly it

thank you...

[obsessivelymoody]

Phil appears in the new asdf movie at around 0:23 seconds in, coming out!

[alittledizzy]

"I'M GAY"

Phil has a brand new and he's sticking to it, lmao.

He also just tweeted about it!

[LAshleigh]

Does that mean it's also Phil at 1:20?

[BrothAndBrine]

LOL, I love how in the credits/description, even if they are in the order for a good reason, Daniel J Layton is right before Phil.

[obsessivelymoody]

Does that mean it's also Phil at 1:20?

Oh I totally missed that lol, it is Phil at that timestamp too!

[madzilla84]

I wanted to bring this over here because it's been living rent-free in my head since I read it the other day. I think it's a super interesting take on the ongoing 'discourse' about how DnP communicate (or don't) with us, and a good way to sort of see it from both sides, as a lot of these arguments wrongly split people into 'babying' vs 'entitled'... I'm not trying to re-start the discourse, by the way, nor am I saying this is definitely the case, I just thought this particular POV was a very good one that I hadn't really seen around before.

tl;dr - I thought this was a really good post. Thank you, OP, if you're on here!

I posted it, along with a link to the OP, under the spoiler.

when stories go wrong

Seeing all the discourse around how dnp communicate with us, I couldn’t help but relate it to the ideas about storytelling that I’ve been exploring on this blog.

It seems to me that there’s a link between some people’s frustration with dnp and the disappointment we all can feel when a story that we’ve become emotionally invested in doesn’t turn out the way we want it to.

My take on it comes down to this:

We as humans are born with an innate drive to tell and be told stories, and we constantly construct stories out of the real life events happening around us. We instinctively know what a story needs in order to have a satisfying conclusion and we experience a strong negative reaction when a story we are emotionally attached to fails to deliver this.

So much of what has happened in Dan and Phil’s real lives follows the structure of a well-told story (more specifically the rags to riches plot with Dan as protagonist) that it sets us up to feel the same sense of emotional investment that we feel when watching/reading fictional stories. In my view, it was this very thing that fuelled their popularity - our connection with them wasn’t just based on their content, but also on our emotional investment in the unfolding story of their lives. And once the story instinct has been triggered, it creates expectations in us about about what should happen next - we can’t help it, we’re programmed that way.

When a story that has become meaningful to us suddenly veers off course or ends abruptly, we can feel a keen sense of loss and abandonment. We are left in limbo with a whole heap of unresolved feelings. We have the sense that we’ve have been denied something that is ‘owed’ to us, that we’ve been unfairly treated, and then we get angry at those we feel are responsible (think of fan reactions to the end of GoT, or series 4 of Sherlock, or the unexpected cancellation of many a beloved show that never got to have a proper ending).

dnp had unwittingly became the protagonists in a story that we all became hugely invested in but that couldn’t deliver the kind of emotional resolution that our story instinct tells us we deserve, because real people’s real lives just don’t work that way. With the ending of the ii era, the loss of joint content, and Dan taking a big step back, the story that they’d been telling for the last near decade suddenly….stopped. We were reassured that this was only temporary, but over months and then years came the realisation that this wasn’t the case. It was clear that we were no longer able to be a part of the world of Dan and Phil that they’d created then and invited us all to share. Without any proper closure, we were left in a kind of limbo, intellectually knowing that things were different and why, but emotionally finding it hard to accept.

People have responded to this in different ways. Some have found it fairly easy to accept that dnp being dnp has run it’s course and appreciate their solo projects. Some miss seeing them together but revisit old videos, or turn to fanfic, or enjoy looking out for the small glimpses of joint content we get from time to time. Others find their attention moving on to new fandoms that replace their emotional investment in dnp. But some people are still finding themselves stuck in the feeling of loss, the sense of having been abandoned or let down that comes when our story instinct is triggered but is left unresolved, and they express this through criticism of dnp and especially Dan that can seem harsh or undeserved to others.

I personally think it’s really positive and healthy that dnp have been able to redraw the boundaries of how they interact with their audience to something that feels more comfortable for them. At the same time I try not to judge too harshly those who struggle with letting go of how things were before because the strength of their feelings makes so much more sense to me when looked at in this wider context. I might not agree with their criticisms, but I don’t feel so confused about where the strength of their feeling comes from.

[autumnhearth]

^ Yeah it’s very much like an abrupt cancellation of their joint tv show, with Phil continuing on with his long running solo series, which for years just felt side thing, now with no Dan guest appearances and of course Dan’s solo series ending at the same time with him instead sporadically popping up in other media. Dan’s rag to riches story however carries on, especially if you extend that to personal growth and accepting his sexuality, like holy shit he was on the cover of Attitude magazine, that’s *huge* character development!

[madzilla84]

Oh for sure, but the analogy obviously isn't perfect and only extends so far, as YouTube/real lives don't line up *completely* with, say, a fictional TV show. Thinking of something like, I dunno, the X-Files, where a lot of people lost interest once Mulder left, even though Scully, also a beloved character, was still there and had some good (...and some not-so-good) character developments and things going on. For many people, it had to be both of them together or they just weren't interested, while for others, they were quite happy to continue watching because they were invested enough in Scully as a character, or they liked the new characters, or whatever.

As I say, not a perfect or even very good example because real life and fiction can't really be compared that directly (as the post I posted points out), but you get what I mean, I hope!

(I also think the focus is more on the abruptness/unresolved-ness of the "ending", rather than the fact it happened at all; a well-written ending can be fine for a lot of fans of a series)

[glitterintheair]

Just posting to say that the analogy with Sherlock S4 hit way too close to home.

[rizzo]

I understand and believe that Dan and Phil are human beings who make decisions for themselves and are not in any way a fictional story. That's how I continue on in this fandom and accept the situation we're in. They're humans who do what they need to do for themselves and I'm beyond the point of calling them out - we are where we are and I'm going to enjoy what we get these days. That's my preface for the next thing I'm going to write.

With that being said, I'll say that the difference (to me) is this: In the case of stories and tv shows and movies, you usually get an explanation for an abrupt ending: the network doesn't see the show as profitable, the author is working on other stories, etcetc But with Dan and Phil there is no explanation. We're left to accept the end of DnP (as a brand and "story" if you will) and figure out the reasoning behind that end for ourselves. I think that makes it a harder pill to swallow. They didn't even offer a Jenna Marbles-esque final post (or 2). We could argue for DML2, but like... not really. It would be like if Jenna had said "I'm not doing the podcast with Julien anymore, but nothing else will change" instead of her definitive final comments that included statements like "I need to be done with this channel now ...or forever". I think Dan and Phil intended to wean us off their "story" by making the changes seem not-so-severe, but they ended up leaving behind a relatively confused fandom that was, frankly, very tired of hearing the word "hiatus" and knowing it meant "end".

Anyway, that paragraph spiraled a lot, but I think what I really wanted to say is that, even in a world where the 2 of them are a story without the ending/explanation we so craved, we still got even LESS of an explanation. Their story was a TV show being cancelled and the network vagueposting about it maybe coming back one day with a new plot. Maybe. Kinda. Just keep following the characters in their separate arcs.

But again: Dan and Phil are human beings and their life isn't a story. It's their life. They can do what they need to do. So it's fine. It's all fine.

[Megancita75]

So one thing I've noticed about myself lately is that I find myself now more interested in them as individual people, and not so much in their relationship. Like, don't get me wrong, I am still interested in that and I was also interested in them as individuals before, but there's been some sort of shift where I really am thinking less of them as a couple and that dynamic and am spending more time thinking about Phil's personality (and the new parts of it we've been seeing) and Dan's personhood (which to me, at least, feels like a brand new person in some ways). So their master plan is working

[gnostic]

That was a fun video, I've never tried anything pumpkin spice in my life but seasoning dry room temperature popcorn when you could do it straight from the microwave while it's warm and buttery seems criminal.

I am sorry I know this is old and my response is entirely off topic but i've been reading up on the forum as I do occasionally and I read your comment and
When i moved to England i discovered they have an OBSESSION with premade popcorn, it is freaking HORRIFIC

[inanerat]

That was a fun video, I've never tried anything pumpkin spice in my life but seasoning dry room temperature popcorn when you could do it straight from the microwave while it's warm and buttery seems criminal.

I am sorry I know this is old and my response is entirely off topic but i've been reading up on the forum as I do occasionally and I read your comment and
When i moved to England i discovered they have an OBSESSION with premade popcorn, it is freaking HORRIFIC

While I love popcorn and sometimes microwave popcorn is super convenient and I get that, air popped is really good, usually less popped kernels, never burned, and you can season to taste? Butter? Salt? Brown sugar? Cheese powder? Nutritional yeast? Pumpkin spice, you name it (do not recommend all of those all at once) And make however much you want? I'm very pro-air-popped popcorn, I don't get why it isn't more of a thing, especially with people like me and Phil that eat popcorn all the time.

Way less trash too! You can even get bulk kernels some places so you don't have to create any plastic! Now that I think about it, deppy did have one at one time, Phil got it for christmas 2013 and talked about it in this video (https://youtu.be/AkeAAKj9lLk, popcorn bit starts at 1:45). I wonder why they didn't keep it, they are loud and you do need a bowl with taller sides to not make a mess but then you can eat out of the bowl like a trough which is peak popcorn eating experience, better than Phil's 'put the bag on your face like a horse' technique. Maybe it broke. idk.

I am 1000% here for popcorn discourse. Also I like cheese popcorn too, soz Phil.

[noodlebum]

I can't eat popcorn anymore, but when I did, sweet cinema popcorn was the best, followed by butter microwave popcorn (in a premade bag thing). However, I admit I was OBSESSED with Tesco's sweet and salted bagged popcorn. I've never had popcorn made in a pan, I don't know if it's as much a thing here?

[alittledizzy]

I kinda wish Phil had waited to post his Halloween adjacent video until closer to the day.

I'm just craving some kind of Dan and/or Phil experience to complete the spooky theme vibes.

Maybe I'll just imagine them pumpkin carving on their own. Or making a pumpkin pie. Anyway, that reliable fallback: when the boys disappoint, just make a fanfic movie in your own head.

[madzilla84]

Last year he posted a vid on the 20th (Norman makeup tutorial) and then again on the 27th (haunted hotel), so maybe...? I mean, I don't want to get my hopes up as I don't think it's too likely (and the hotel one was a spon they presumably wanted to go out close to Halloween), but you never know!

(At this point I'd take a couple of insta stories featuring ... whatever they're doing for Halloween this year.)

[Amiaw]

I know last year around this time we got some park pictures from Martyn’s birthday celebration so I don’t know if it’s possible but if they are able to see each other I’d be happy with an old school dnp + mnc pic

[alittledizzy]

I know last year around this time we got some park pictures from Martyn’s birthday celebration so I don’t know if it’s possible but if they are able to see each other I’d be happy with an old school dnp + mnc pic

That would be so nice.

I'd also just like to see Cornelia. She was so active around the beginning of the pandemic but then stopped using instagram as much and eventually stopped being active on twitter, too. I think she's only tweeted twice in the past few months and she also stopped liking things. I hope it's just her deciding social media wasn't good for her and not health issues or something else like that. It would just be nice to see her again.

[Templeofshame]

I was a little sad we didn't get any Cornelia modelling in the latest merch drop.

[rizzo]

sigh seth everman adopted a cat and phil liked his post and honestly... with this and pj's cat and jimmy's puppy? if dan and phil don't get a fuzzy creature of their own soon, i might combust.