If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by melon lord » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:46 pm

The thing is that there are literally so many - equally valid - interpretations and so many plot holes and things we don't know of as an audience, that all our perspectives have some truth to them.

Whether you see them as being friends or more than friends, there's so much for both sides of the debate that we'll never really reach a common consensus.

Still fun to talk about, though. :lol: Their life is so much more interesting.

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by Winston » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:51 pm

melon lord wrote:The thing is that there are literally so many - equally valid - interpretations and so many plot holes and things we don't know of as an audience, that all our perspectives have some truth to them.

Whether you see them as being friends or more than friends, there's so much for both sides of the debate that we'll never really reach a common consensus.

Still fun to talk about, though. :lol: Their life is so much more interesting.
Not true there is one thing we all seem to agree on; that they truly do love each other. Whether it be P L A T O N I C or romantic, they love each other.
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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by papierklemmen » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:01 pm

melon lord wrote:The thing is that there are literally so many - equally valid - interpretations and so many plot holes and things we don't know of as an audience, that all our perspectives have some truth to them.

Whether you see them as being friends or more than friends, there's so much for both sides of the debate that we'll never really reach a common consensus.

Still fun to talk about, though. :lol: Their life is so much more interesting.
it is fun! and as i said, i'm a really big fan of unresolved mysteries, so i can't wait to get down to the bottom of this one, even if it'll never happen. :lol: btw past few years have been pretty big on solved mysteries: they found out what happened to jacob wetterling, they found out the identity of lori ruff, possible new clues in the jonbenet case, in asha degree case... who knows, maybe the great mystery of phan will be solved soon what am i even on about
Not true there is one thing we all seem to agree on; that they truly do love each other. Whether it be P L A T O N I C or romantic, they love each other.
now THAT is true. and #confirmed by chris too.

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by melon lord » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:11 pm

Winston wrote:
melon lord wrote:The thing is that there are literally so many - equally valid - interpretations and so many plot holes and things we don't know of as an audience, that all our perspectives have some truth to them.

Whether you see them as being friends or more than friends, there's so much for both sides of the debate that we'll never really reach a common consensus.

Still fun to talk about, though. :lol: Their life is so much more interesting.
Not true there is one thing we all seem to agree on; that they truly do love each other. Whether it be P L A T O N I C or romantic, they love each other.

well yes of course, a blind person could see that

not jealous no not at all *sobs lonely tears into empty ramen bowl*

But I mean if they bishi bashi platonically as bros, or as phan 8-)

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by hypothesised » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:56 am

what i find most interesting about d+p (especially dan) is that they are willing to violently reject or rebut (especially in 2012 oh god) any and all mention about phan being real. i'm an ardent larry shipper/one direction fan ( :gg: ) and what made me buy into larry is that neither louis nor harry outrightly denied, in their own words, larry. yet dan has done it multiple times, sometimes in ways that are uncalled for and rude (which i get). so yeah, i don't particularly buy into phan for this one reason but i do like the idea of them together
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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by gnostic » Tue May 09, 2017 11:53 am

Let me revive this thread!

I was wondering if all my non-phan people (I remember your names babies ) would want to share if / how the "events" of the last few months affected their beliefs because there's no way to hold this discussion in the mainthread lbr?
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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by 000dia000 » Tue May 09, 2017 10:05 pm

gnostic wrote:Let me revive this thread!

I was wondering if all my non-phan people (I remember your names babies ) would want to share if / how the "events" of the last few months affected their beliefs because there's no way to hold this discussion in the mainthread lbr?
To clarify, I do lean more towards shipping phan, than I do to not. I am skeptical, but more so wary at the exact nature of the relationship, and what it entails.
I think it's more idealistic just to envision that they plan to spend their certain determinate future together-but I don't want to assume that this will be romantic?? In that, I can see that they plan to live together, that's what I think, but it's not necessarily romantic. It can still be a close, platonic relationship that they plan to have, that they've always had, and they've happy living together as they are like that. The only reason I still have uncertainty is that, well, they haven't confirmed anything about the nature of their relationship, the only thing they have confirmed if the closeness they share together, and that's the only thing I'm really happy to see with them. Honestly, while I'd hate the idea of them knowingly queer baiting, I can honestly see them possibly having this live together, in a platonic relationship, possibly for the rest of their lives.
[It's very easy to think "they're so cute together", but honestly, I like to focuses on "they seem so happy together" and that's what makes their interactions and relationship enjoyable to me. I can watch any couple on youtube, and their affection is so straight forward, generic. But with deppy it is so much more complex in the subtleties of affection and admiration they seem to express to each other. "Heart-eyes Howell" and "jealous Dan" is objective in itself, and nearly laughable as "proof", but small gestures and nice statements they say about each other, reveal a lot more. While I don't know what to think of the status of their "relationship", the only thing I do know is that they obviously care about each other, and I think that's the most important thing.]
My feelings haven't really changed towards if I think they're "real" or not in the last few months. The only thing that has changed is my conviction that they are in a committed relationship, and that it is unwavering. However, I do think I would be disappointed if it turned out they just suddenly got up and out from where they are right now, and start dating other people. The mere thought is just so (?) bizarre. They already seemed to have settled down and have not shown any sign of moving out...so maybe this is a sign that, well, this will be for a while? Maybe a long time? I think in the case they weren't together, and had to find SO's, not to sound cheesy, but I'm not sure they're find someone they love as much as each other
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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by papierklemmen » Fri May 12, 2017 7:10 am

gnostic wrote:Let me revive this thread!

I was wondering if all my non-phan people (I remember your names babies ) would want to share if / how the "events" of the last few months affected their beliefs because there's no way to hold this discussion in the mainthread lbr?
i wish i could provide juicy opinions, but unfortunately i've been less and less invested in the "mystery" these past months and, turns out the less interested i am, the less i care and the less i believe in #phanisreal. so i kind of haven't changed my views.
i thought i would change my mind, and for a second when the moving out video came out i did, but their move has been hyped up as some sort of solid conformation, when in reality it was them fleeing their terrible flat and, let's be real, their stalkers. other youtubers move way more frequently than these two, i am surprised they stayed that long considering their address has been in the open for ages now. but then again, i take what they say at face value so it's hard for me to judge. the other stuff... i don't know. dan making male attraction mentions? news at 11. phil making male attraction mentions? still not buying that one, sorry, saying someone has a pretty face is hardly saying you're attracted to them. i'm not protesting though, if he likes men he likes men, you do you m8.
i am not gonna lie, reading about dan's apparent declaration of a future dog and future house made me put my goggles on for a moment, but the actual vid was a bit anticlimatic. a few months ago i would be like #iwanttobelieve, and now i'm just bored lol.
tldr; nothing has really changed, despite their new flat n all. they're still as guarded as ever and i'm kind of tired of reaching for clues anyway. call me when they release a sextape tbh.

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by gerrymandering » Thu May 18, 2017 8:21 pm

i don't have much to say other than personally i just don't see why they would hide it and lie about it for the better half of a decade. like what would be the point?

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by 000dia000 » Thu May 18, 2017 8:30 pm

gerrymandering wrote:i don't have much to say other than personally i just don't see why they would hide it and lie about it for the better half of a decade. like what would be the point?
being "out" to the public as a gay couple (homophobia and all that), privacy, spiral of lies, their "denial" phase being a period of break-up, some bring up possible "ship-baiting" or even "queer-baiting"...the usual stuff
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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by Katka » Thu May 18, 2017 8:37 pm

gnostic wrote:Let me revive this thread!

I was wondering if all my non-phan people (I remember your names babies ) would want to share if / how the "events" of the last few months affected their beliefs because there's no way to hold this discussion in the mainthread lbr?
That’s really hard to answer for me. Lately I really want to believe but then I remember why I didn’t ship them in the first place: Because I don’t want to assume something that has not been confirmed. So I’m still in that place. I catch myself thinking: Come on, they’re living together, doing everything together etc. but then I kinda think that’s super heteronormative of me? Who am I to say what their behaviour means and what is couply and what isn’t without any kind of confirmation? So yeah, I’m agnostic and I will be until I get a real answer, I guess. I’d be so happy for them if they were actually together but I don’t feel comfortable just assuming it based on what I think their behaviour looks like. They're obviously very close but I don't think it's my place to put a label on it. You do you, guys.
gerrymandering wrote:i don't have much to say other than personally i just don't see why they would hide it and lie about it for the better half of a decade. like what would be the point?
Don't forget they're not a hetero couple though. Coming out as a couple has very different consequences for two men than it would have for a hetero couple and there are a million reasons a same-sex couple would want to hide their relationship, it wouldn't even have to be a Youtube related reason. So even though I'm not a shipper, that's not one of my reasons.

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by anenergetic » Sun May 28, 2017 4:56 am

just wanted to drop in to say this is a very interesting forum and the discussion seem to be very civil, not that i expected it not to be, but still nice nonetheless.
gay :prideflag:

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by ananas » Sun May 28, 2017 4:19 pm

I'm a non-shipper and here's why:
It makes me kind of uncomfortable to see two real life people shipped together. They are not fictional characters, but actual real people. They are really private and separate their youtube and personal lives, and shipping just feels like crossing a line. I feel like a lot of the "fans" they have would stop watching them if they started dating/people found out about other love lives. I don't watch them because of phan moments, I find them entertaining.
Do I believe they are together?
No. They have said they are not together in 2012 over and over again. I know this was the "dark times" of phan, but that's their last statement of their relationship, so that's what I'll go by.
If somehow, someday they come out as a couple?
I wouldn't mind at all. I would be very happy for them.

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by 000dia000 » Sun May 28, 2017 8:34 pm

ananas wrote:
I'm a non-shipper and here's why:
It makes me kind of uncomfortable to see two real life people shipped together. They are not fictional characters, but actual real people. They are really private and separate their youtube and personal lives, and shipping just feels like crossing a line. I feel like a lot of the "fans" they have would stop watching them if they started dating/people found out about other love lives. I don't watch them because of phan moments, I find them entertaining.
Do I believe they are together?
No. They have said they are not together in 2012 over and over again. I know this was the "dark times" of phan, but that's their last statement of their relationship, so that's what I'll go by.
If somehow, someday they come out as a couple?
I wouldn't mind at all. I would be very happy for them.
IE: Shipping
I find that Deppy belong in the gray area between shipping culture and well, their own culture that's quite unique. There's a heavy emphasis on the relationship between themselves and their audience being due to the relationship they have with each other. While some interpret this as romantic, more casual audience members would be invested in the chemistry they have with each other (usually for gaming) where interaction is an important part of the entertainment. Nevertheless, people "shipping" them holds a huge part to their success, and while it is uncomfortable to think about, has benefitted them more than hindered.

However, you're feelings about shipping real life people are valid, honestly, there's something a little discomforting to me about shipping anybody with anything because of visual aesthetics or jus' because, as many in shippers do. It annoys me to see comments like, "Is it bad that I ship them??/?". It's just alienating and strange that peoples only interest is wanting people to fuck make cute daisy chains and kiss.

However, I like to make the distinguish between shipping and deppy, one that phan, while is a "ship" is quite possibly something more than that. I think in the case you believe that there's a possible genuine relationship, you can establish that it's not necessarily something you "ship" but just a thing you believe exists.

However, if you do have doubts to the genuinity then of course that doesn't apply, but of you do happen to think "they might be together" then that doesn't necessary mean you ship them, as it's not part of the shipping culture.
BTW I wouldn't have anything against people who say that they would no longer watch them if they weren't together. For one, people feel very strongly about queer baiting and would be upset. Secondly, I'm being kind of petty here, but if one of them got a boyfriend/girlfriend, chances are they will be boring and probably not as entertaining as they are with each other. YouTubers incorporating their arm candy into their content is their death, if you ask me. There's also to consider deppy have been quite lax recently with making creative videos (this is my opinion) and I think the only thing really drawing in prospective viewers is the mystery around their relationship, or at the very least the bants they have together. Take out the dynamic duo and you're left with two guys who honestly need each other to drive each others creativity (and who's to say that their new SO has that ability? I doubt). Fans come and go. They're fickle. Even if deppy came out tomorrow morning as in a relationship and having two dogs, they might just lose half their subscribers: just because the novelty has worn off.
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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by ananas » Mon May 29, 2017 7:44 am

000dia000 wrote:
ananas wrote:
I'm a non-shipper and here's why:
It makes me kind of uncomfortable to see two real life people shipped together. They are not fictional characters, but actual real people. They are really private and separate their youtube and personal lives, and shipping just feels like crossing a line. I feel like a lot of the "fans" they have would stop watching them if they started dating/people found out about other love lives. I don't watch them because of phan moments, I find them entertaining.
Do I believe they are together?
No. They have said they are not together in 2012 over and over again. I know this was the "dark times" of phan, but that's their last statement of their relationship, so that's what I'll go by.
If somehow, someday they come out as a couple?
I wouldn't mind at all. I would be very happy for them.
IE: Shipping
I find that Deppy belong in the gray area between shipping culture and well, their own culture that's quite unique. There's a heavy emphasis on the relationship between themselves and their audience being due to the relationship they have with each other. While some interpret this as romantic, more casual audience members would be invested in the chemistry they have with each other (usually for gaming) where interaction is an important part of the entertainment. Nevertheless, people "shipping" them holds a huge part to their success, and while it is uncomfortable to think about, has benefitted them more than hindered.

However, you're feelings about shipping real life people are valid, honestly, there's something a little discomforting to me about shipping anybody with anything because of visual aesthetics or jus' because, as many in shippers do. It annoys me to see comments like, "Is it bad that I ship them??/?". It's just alienating and strange that peoples only interest is wanting people to fuck make cute daisy chains and kiss.

However, I like to make the distinguish between shipping and deppy, one that phan, while is a "ship" is quite possibly something more than that. I think in the case you believe that there's a possible genuine relationship, you can establish that it's not necessarily something you "ship" but just a thing you believe exists.

However, if you do have doubts to the genuinity then of course that doesn't apply, but of you do happen to think "they might be together" then that doesn't necessary mean you ship them, as it's not part of the shipping culture.
BTW I wouldn't have anything against people who say that they would no longer watch them if they weren't together. For one, people feel very strongly about queer baiting and would be upset. Secondly, I'm being kind of petty here, but if one of them got a boyfriend/girlfriend, chances are they will be boring and probably not as entertaining as they are with each other. YouTubers incorporating their arm candy into their content is their death, if you ask me. There's also to consider deppy have been quite lax recently with making creative videos (this is my opinion) and I think the only thing really drawing in prospective viewers is the mystery around their relationship, or at the very least the bants they have together. Take out the dynamic duo and you're left with two guys who honestly need each other to drive each others creativity (and who's to say that their new SO has that ability? I doubt). Fans come and go. They're fickle. Even if deppy came out tomorrow morning as in a relationship and having two dogs, they might just lose half their subscribers: just because the novelty has worn off.
These were just my thoughts, and I agree with your points. People would be pissed if they weren't together. But even if they had other girl/boyfriends it wouldn't mean that they would start making videos with other people, right? They have been publicly best friends all this time, so I doubt they would even show them in videos because of demon phan shippers and privacy. I don't know, this subject is quite interesting. I would also feel like they have queer-baited somewhat by not clearing their relationship in recent years (they did before, which I choose to believe until newer statement is made). :?

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by 000dia000 » Mon May 29, 2017 9:02 am

ananas wrote:
000dia000 wrote:
ananas wrote:
I'm a non-shipper and here's why:
It makes me kind of uncomfortable to see two real life people shipped together. They are not fictional characters, but actual real people. They are really private and separate their youtube and personal lives, and shipping just feels like crossing a line. I feel like a lot of the "fans" they have would stop watching them if they started dating/people found out about other love lives. I don't watch them because of phan moments, I find them entertaining.
Do I believe they are together?
No. They have said they are not together in 2012 over and over again. I know this was the "dark times" of phan, but that's their last statement of their relationship, so that's what I'll go by.
If somehow, someday they come out as a couple?
I wouldn't mind at all. I would be very happy for them.
IE: Shipping
I find that Deppy belong in the gray area between shipping culture and well, their own culture that's quite unique. There's a heavy emphasis on the relationship between themselves and their audience being due to the relationship they have with each other. While some interpret this as romantic, more casual audience members would be invested in the chemistry they have with each other (usually for gaming) where interaction is an important part of the entertainment. Nevertheless, people "shipping" them holds a huge part to their success, and while it is uncomfortable to think about, has benefitted them more than hindered.

However, you're feelings about shipping real life people are valid, honestly, there's something a little discomforting to me about shipping anybody with anything because of visual aesthetics or jus' because, as many in shippers do. It annoys me to see comments like, "Is it bad that I ship them??/?". It's just alienating and strange that peoples only interest is wanting people to fuck make cute daisy chains and kiss.

However, I like to make the distinguish between shipping and deppy, one that phan, while is a "ship" is quite possibly something more than that. I think in the case you believe that there's a possible genuine relationship, you can establish that it's not necessarily something you "ship" but just a thing you believe exists.

However, if you do have doubts to the genuinity then of course that doesn't apply, but of you do happen to think "they might be together" then that doesn't necessary mean you ship them, as it's not part of the shipping culture.
BTW I wouldn't have anything against people who say that they would no longer watch them if they weren't together. For one, people feel very strongly about queer baiting and would be upset. Secondly, I'm being kind of petty here, but if one of them got a boyfriend/girlfriend, chances are they will be boring and probably not as entertaining as they are with each other. YouTubers incorporating their arm candy into their content is their death, if you ask me. There's also to consider deppy have been quite lax recently with making creative videos (this is my opinion) and I think the only thing really drawing in prospective viewers is the mystery around their relationship, or at the very least the bants they have together. Take out the dynamic duo and you're left with two guys who honestly need each other to drive each others creativity (and who's to say that their new SO has that ability? I doubt). Fans come and go. They're fickle. Even if deppy came out tomorrow morning as in a relationship and having two dogs, they might just lose half their subscribers: just because the novelty has worn off.
These were just my thoughts, and I agree with your points. People would be pissed if they weren't together. But even if they had other girl/boyfriends it wouldn't mean that they would start making videos with other people, right? They have been publicly best friends all this time, so I doubt they would even show them in videos because of demon phan shippers and privacy. I don't know, this subject is quite interesting. I would also feel like they have queer-baited somewhat by not clearing their relationship in recent years (they did before, which I choose to believe until newer statement is made). :?
Yeah, I doubt they would make videos with a new SO, knowing the backlash, but if it was another YouTuber or they just wanted to show them, who knows how open they might eventually feel? The guard they put up might feel broken with the *truth* and they can be their true self's. I feel it takes some YouTubers longer than others to introduce someone to their audience. Regardless, I just don't think they maintain the same atmosphere living with someone else. When YouTube's lose their roots, they kind of wash up.

Them possibly queerbaiting is tricky for me, as I don't think they intentionally did that. The internet was a different place and they didn't think ahead that in 8 years time Tumblr would find their touchy-feely and possibly queer-platonic relationship something to complain about. It's all circumstantial, and if they came out, would they be accused of that? Similarly, if you consider how Dan (and to an extent Phil) have been very open about their male attraction , it's difficult to assume that they are purposely trying to "act gay" when they already are? They didn't know their behaviour would be held under such scrutiny. Wouldn't "queer baiting" be void if it's true that they're not straight?

The only thing that they could be accused of, and that I fully believe, is that they are ship baiting. They did fanfic segments in tatinof (BTW where's the cake scene it's been months??) And have reportedly said that they do not mind fanfic or referring to people shipping them. I like to see shipping as quite different from the actual relationship, and nearly like a beard to cover themselves up to outsiders who wouldn't look further into some ship that is stereotypically thought up by 13 year olds. They use it as protection, and it honestly doesn't affect them, it boosts their popularity and keeps the audience interested. There's no doubt in my mind that they are shipbaiting-but actively? No.

They ignore it most of the time, just encourages it when it crops up. They might "play up", their relationship for the ship-but then you must consider that maybe they genuinely act like that around each other. They act like they spend their whole life's together-and so far it seems they go, going on holidays with each others families, moving into a new flat together, etc. Sometimes the ship just writes itself, and there's some things they can't help but do that may be accused of the act of shipbaiting." It's a tricky subject, and many people would be more inclined to stay on the definite "yes" and "no" side of the question, but I don't see it so clearly. I don't think they have intentionally queerbaited, and in regards to shipbaiting I just think they encourage the ship, without giving it any real answer.
:cactus:

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by ananas » Mon May 29, 2017 10:56 am

000dia000 wrote:
ananas wrote:
000dia000 wrote:
ananas wrote:
I'm a non-shipper and here's why:
It makes me kind of uncomfortable to see two real life people shipped together. They are not fictional characters, but actual real people. They are really private and separate their youtube and personal lives, and shipping just feels like crossing a line. I feel like a lot of the "fans" they have would stop watching them if they started dating/people found out about other love lives. I don't watch them because of phan moments, I find them entertaining.
Do I believe they are together?
No. They have said they are not together in 2012 over and over again. I know this was the "dark times" of phan, but that's their last statement of their relationship, so that's what I'll go by.
If somehow, someday they come out as a couple?
I wouldn't mind at all. I would be very happy for them.
IE: Shipping
I find that Deppy belong in the gray area between shipping culture and well, their own culture that's quite unique. There's a heavy emphasis on the relationship between themselves and their audience being due to the relationship they have with each other. While some interpret this as romantic, more casual audience members would be invested in the chemistry they have with each other (usually for gaming) where interaction is an important part of the entertainment. Nevertheless, people "shipping" them holds a huge part to their success, and while it is uncomfortable to think about, has benefitted them more than hindered.

However, you're feelings about shipping real life people are valid, honestly, there's something a little discomforting to me about shipping anybody with anything because of visual aesthetics or jus' because, as many in shippers do. It annoys me to see comments like, "Is it bad that I ship them??/?". It's just alienating and strange that peoples only interest is wanting people to fuck make cute daisy chains and kiss.

However, I like to make the distinguish between shipping and deppy, one that phan, while is a "ship" is quite possibly something more than that. I think in the case you believe that there's a possible genuine relationship, you can establish that it's not necessarily something you "ship" but just a thing you believe exists.

However, if you do have doubts to the genuinity then of course that doesn't apply, but of you do happen to think "they might be together" then that doesn't necessary mean you ship them, as it's not part of the shipping culture.
BTW I wouldn't have anything against people who say that they would no longer watch them if they weren't together. For one, people feel very strongly about queer baiting and would be upset. Secondly, I'm being kind of petty here, but if one of them got a boyfriend/girlfriend, chances are they will be boring and probably not as entertaining as they are with each other. YouTubers incorporating their arm candy into their content is their death, if you ask me. There's also to consider deppy have been quite lax recently with making creative videos (this is my opinion) and I think the only thing really drawing in prospective viewers is the mystery around their relationship, or at the very least the bants they have together. Take out the dynamic duo and you're left with two guys who honestly need each other to drive each others creativity (and who's to say that their new SO has that ability? I doubt). Fans come and go. They're fickle. Even if deppy came out tomorrow morning as in a relationship and having two dogs, they might just lose half their subscribers: just because the novelty has worn off.
These were just my thoughts, and I agree with your points. People would be pissed if they weren't together. But even if they had other girl/boyfriends it wouldn't mean that they would start making videos with other people, right? They have been publicly best friends all this time, so I doubt they would even show them in videos because of demon phan shippers and privacy. I don't know, this subject is quite interesting. I would also feel like they have queer-baited somewhat by not clearing their relationship in recent years (they did before, which I choose to believe until newer statement is made). :?
Yeah, I doubt they would make videos with a new SO, knowing the backlash, but if it was another YouTuber or they just wanted to show them, who knows how open they might eventually feel? The guard they put up might feel broken with the *truth* and they can be their true self's. I feel it takes some YouTubers longer than others to introduce someone to their audience. Regardless, I just don't think they maintain the same atmosphere living with someone else. When YouTube's lose their roots, they kind of wash up.

Them possibly queerbaiting is tricky for me, as I don't think they intentionally did that. The internet was a different place and they didn't think ahead that in 8 years time Tumblr would find their touchy-feely and possibly queer-platonic relationship something to complain about. It's all circumstantial, and if they came out, would they be accused of that? Similarly, if you consider how Dan (and to an extent Phil) have been very open about their male attraction , it's difficult to assume that they are purposely trying to "act gay" when they already are? They didn't know their behaviour would be held under such scrutiny. Wouldn't "queer baiting" be void if it's true that they're not straight?

The only thing that they could be accused of, and that I fully believe, is that they are ship baiting. They did fanfic segments in tatinof (BTW where's the cake scene it's been months??) And have reportedly said that they do not mind fanfic or referring to people shipping them. I like to see shipping as quite different from the actual relationship, and nearly like a beard to cover themselves up to outsiders who wouldn't look further into some ship that is stereotypically thought up by 13 year olds. They use it as protection, and it honestly doesn't affect them, it boosts their popularity and keeps the audience interested. There's no doubt in my mind that they are shipbaiting-but actively? No.

They ignore it most of the time, just encourages it when it crops up. They might "play up", their relationship for the ship-but then you must consider that maybe they genuinely act like that around each other. They act like they spend their whole life's together-and so far it seems they go, going on holidays with each others families, moving into a new flat together, etc. Sometimes the ship just writes itself, and there's some things they can't help but do that may be accused of the act of shipbaiting." It's a tricky subject, and many people would be more inclined to stay on the definite "yes" and "no" side of the question, but I don't see it so clearly. I don't think they have intentionally queerbaited, and in regards to shipbaiting I just think they encourage the ship, without giving it any real answer.
Interesting topic! Yes, I don't think they saw it coming eight years ago, and acted naturally with each other. When the shipping started hardcore Dan (maybe Phil also..?) got scared and denied it strongly. Nowadays what shippers see as "them opening up and giving hints of their relationship" I see as them just not caring anymore that hey are shipped or that people think they are together.
I think a lot of the viewers are drawn to the "mystery of phan". And I think Dan and Phil know this.
Yeah, they wouldn't be queer bating but ship bating if they ever were found to not be in a relationship.
For me it's really interesting to see how long they an maintain this status quo in their relationship online, and what happens when the truth is found. :)

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by 000dia000 » Mon May 29, 2017 10:01 pm

(I can't quote, ananas because I'm on phone)
Yeah, I think they've made a conscious decision to be more open/be less serious about it, and like you said, the "truth" will probably be known soon, and I'm honestly thinking it will be within the next year that something will happen. I think regardless of whether they're together or not, I say in five years they'll have a much smaller phandom and it will be less intensive. Fame is fleeting, and unless they go off to Hollywood to direct a movie or do some other secret project, then it will dwindle to a small community who watch their videos. I think by then, the "mystery" won't be as necessarily integral to success.
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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by twix » Mon May 29, 2017 11:31 pm

000dia000 wrote: Them possibly queerbaiting is tricky for me, as I don't think they intentionally did that. The internet was a different place and they didn't think ahead that in 8 years time Tumblr would find their touchy-feely and possibly queer-platonic relationship something to complain about. It's all circumstantial [...] They didn't know their behaviour would be held under such scrutiny.
000dia000 wrote:I think regardless of whether they're together or not, I say in five years they'll have a much smaller phandom and it will be less intensive. Fame is fleeting, and unless they go off to Hollywood to direct a movie or do some other secret project, then it will dwindle to a small community who watch their videos. I think by then, the "mystery" won't be as necessarily integral to success.
TBH the reason I think the shipping/mystery is so intensive at the moment has everything to do with the dissolution of One Direction and many of the fans who were into larry needed something else to latch onto and deppy looked promising. They'll move on when something else comes up. (of the many secret-relationship type conspiracies that have proliferated over the last ~15 years, there is remarkable overlap in prominent theorists.)

The other thing, and this relates to the first quote, is that these types of discussion/analysis/theorizing have become so much more mainstream (+ certain degree of social acceptability) in the last five years. No one could have reasonably been prepared.

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by captainspacecoat » Tue May 30, 2017 1:23 am

twix wrote: TBH the reason I think the shipping/mystery is so intensive at the moment has everything to do with the dissolution of One Direction and many of the fans who were into larry needed something else to latch onto and deppy looked promising. They'll move on when something else comes up. (of the many secret-relationship type conspiracies that have proliferated over the last ~15 years, there is remarkable overlap in prominent theorists.)

The other thing, and this relates to the first quote, is that these types of discussion/analysis/theorizing have become so much more mainstream (+ certain degree of social acceptability) in the last five years. No one could have reasonably been prepared.
Hmm that may be so for people who "ship" them on a more surface level, i.e. those who base their beliefs on the way dnp look at each other, or just their own desire for two men to be in a relationship. But I think there's a lot more substance behind the story of dnp, and I think its takes a lot less reaching to come to the conclusion that dnp may be in a relationship than it does with larry. I don't know a whole lot about larry, but as far as I'm aware the two of them have had almost no contact for years, and their relationship has been strained since the beginning of 1d, when they used to act flirty with one another sometimes. I think that pales in comparison to the going-on 8 years of context surrounding dnp that (in my admittedly biased perspective as someone who believes they're together) would plausibly suggest they're in a relationship. I think there's a lot less tinhatting with dnp, and a lot of the reasons to believe in their relationship lie in wider context rather than insignificant moments in videos etc.

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by 000dia000 » Tue May 30, 2017 1:31 am

That's interesting twix and I think you're right. It wasn't just Larry, I see people migrating from other ships like Supernatural, Glee and Sherlock. I think some people are drawn to similar things, people have relatively similar interests, curiosities and attractions and they don't change, they just morph into something new, where appropriate. So, the idea of shipping and ideas related to that is quite second nature for a lot of people.

I'm actually interested how many people have migrated from other ships, can that be added to the Dan and Phil survey?? Haha

And as captain space coat has said, the context of phan and its background has a lot more depth and basis of truth than Larry or fictional character ships. So it's a little more complex. Also, due to the genuinity of their friendship, I say those who migrated get more constant, real appeal that they haven't before. Probably making them feel very secure and definite in their certainty of phan, or in general
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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by YourMother » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:29 pm

Does anyone else GENUINELY WORRY that one day Dan or Phil will reveal their SO, and the subsequent backlash?
Like, it's just so sad that they've got this fandom that's so obsessed with shipping them/wanting to have them for themselves, that if they were found to have a partner I honestly feel sick at the thought of the abuse that person might receive.
Of course I know not everyone is like that, and I hope the crazies are in the minority, but I can't help wondering. From my perspective, if I was in a situation like that, no matter how much I loved that person, I don't think I could handle the hate, and I'm pretty sure it would make me leave.
I just think sometimes shippers (not just of phan) are way too pushy with their beliefs. As a result I just steer clear of shipping in general, and I don't do it with real people. Would it bother me if Phan was a thing? No. That's their business, and I respect them either way. I just wish certain people would start thinking the same way. Then, maybe, Dan and Phil would feel more comfortable being open about their personal lives.

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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by 000dia000 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:08 pm

YourMother wrote:Does anyone else GENUINELY WORRY that one day Dan or Phil will reveal their SO, and the subsequent backlash?
Like, it's just so sad that they've got this fandom that's so obsessed with shipping them/wanting to have them for themselves, that if they were found to have a partner I honestly feel sick at the thought of the abuse that person might receive.
Of course I know not everyone is like that, and I hope the crazies are in the minority, but I can't help wondering. From my perspective, if I was in a situation like that, no matter how much I loved that person, I don't think I could handle the hate, and I'm pretty sure it would make me leave.
I just think sometimes shippers (not just of phan) are way too pushy with their beliefs. As a result I just steer clear of shipping in general, and I don't do it with real people. Would it bother me if Phan was a thing? No. That's their business, and I respect them either way. I just wish certain people would start thinking the same way. Then, maybe, Dan and Phil would feel more comfortable being open about their personal lives.
The kind of intensity of the phandom is just confirmation for me that there is no way there are any secret SO's, among other things. I think that even if phan wasn't a thing, and if one of them (a hot single guy)was suddenly in a relationship, there would be a backlash anyway. I think it's a societal problem rather than something unique to the phandom tbh. The phandom isn't great but isn't a monster that's harming Dan and Phil, simply put they have control over what they share and subsequently their own life, they are aware of how their career night be affected in this hypothetical situation, but would they care? No. The phandom would move on.
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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by sparkle » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:27 pm

Can I dump the contents of my brain here, I was going to put this in the 'why do you ship' thread but I realised this pertains to the doubt that they aren't together and therefore is anti proof. (For the record I oscillate between 99.9% convinced they're together and 50% they aren't)

How the HELL have they kept everything secret for this long if they are together? One slip, that is all it would take. Basically every time they are out of the house they would have to be actively NOT touching each other, and have been since 2009. That seems impossible. For example, people know where Phil's 30th birthday meal was and I'm certain people will have searched geotagged photos of it trying to spot them in the background. Thus, they would have to be under a state of constant vigilance outside which just seems impossible. Especially if alcohol is involved. I have photos with so many random people in the background, its not too much of a logical leap to assume that they are in the background to many, many random photos. And you're telling me that not ONCE (beyond the London meet-up arm thing) there has been any photographs of them.

A lot of the phan 'proof' is heavily edited (That photo from FNAF 3 where they kiss when the lights are off? Doesn't happen) and is taken out of context. There is not a lot of it, and what is genuine is sometimes literally 'Dan looked at Phil'.

Dan vehemently denied them being together. What if that was actually true? That anger can be read as 'oh shit, hide everything' or 'this is straining a very important friendship please stop'. Their relationship is obviously extremely special and this would strain anybody. There was a definite bite in his messages, he was angry, but does that mean he was denying and covering up Phan? Not necessarily

If they were so in love and so explicit about being together in 2009/2010. Why did they NEVER ever explicitly state they were in a relationship?

You are also telling me that the many people that will know the truth (friends, family, Facebook friends, colleagues) have not ONCE provided credible proof? (i.e. leaked a screenshot of their Facebook profiles, leaked private photos). Especially people who they have pissed off or who they have stopped being friends with. I struggle to believe this especially. I don't think they'd have a super injunction on their relationship status, so I struggle to believe everyone wishes to keep their privacy.

The true cynic in me maybe thinks Phan is their brand and they're just acting up to it because it gets them clicks. And clicks get them money. (I don't believe this but it's a possibility)

They are liars and have lied. They have lied about how they met, they have lied about Bubble Bobble ffs! They are withholding something to do with their relationship.

It is entirely plausible that they are just two men who have an amazing connection and that is all they need in life? Relationships can be fulfilling and intimate without being 'a relationship'.

But THE video. My doubt about yes/no centres heavily around this. I cannot get past a second of it because something about me strikes me as so genuine and true. This is why I cannot fully say they aren't together, because it strikes me as so genuine. But all of the above is reason to me that they AREN'T together.

But the indicators that they are together, to me at least, is growing almost every time they post something as a duo on the internet :?

I think they are approaching a point where something will be said and it will be explicitly addressed. It feels like something is building, and I say this as someone who spent a 2 year absence from the phandom. I feel like everything that is happening now is them testing the waters for an announcement. I also understand that two men being in a relationship is different to a heterosexual one, so there is obviously the consideration of homophobia in this, as well as their own privacy and that they owe us nothing beyond what they chose to share.
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Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by Susanisnotafish » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:13 am

sparkle wrote:Can I dump the contents of my brain here, I was going to put this in the 'why do you ship' thread but I realised this pertains to the doubt that they aren't together and therefore is anti proof. (For the record I oscillate between 99.9% convinced they're together and 50% they aren't)

How the HELL have they kept everything secret for this long if they are together? One slip, that is all it would take. Basically every time they are out of the house they would have to be actively NOT touching each other, and have been since 2009. That seems impossible. For example, people know where Phil's 30th birthday meal was and I'm certain people will have searched geotagged photos of it trying to spot them in the background. Thus, they would have to be under a state of constant vigilance outside which just seems impossible. Especially if alcohol is involved. I have photos with so many random people in the background, its not too much of a logical leap to assume that they are in the background to many, many random photos. And you're telling me that not ONCE (beyond the London meet-up arm thing) there has been any photographs of them.

A lot of the phan 'proof' is heavily edited (That photo from FNAF 3 where they kiss when the lights are off? Doesn't happen) and is taken out of context. There is not a lot of it, and what is genuine is sometimes literally 'Dan looked at Phil'.

Dan vehemently denied them being together. What if that was actually true? That anger can be read as 'oh shit, hide everything' or 'this is straining a very important friendship please stop'. Their relationship is obviously extremely special and this would strain anybody. There was a definite bite in his messages, he was angry, but does that mean he was denying and covering up Phan? Not necessarily

If they were so in love and so explicit about being together in 2009/2010. Why did they NEVER ever explicitly state they were in a relationship?

You are also telling me that the many people that will know the truth (friends, family, Facebook friends, colleagues) have not ONCE provided credible proof? (i.e. leaked a screenshot of their Facebook profiles, leaked private photos). Especially people who they have pissed off or who they have stopped being friends with. I struggle to believe this especially. I don't think they'd have a super injunction on their relationship status, so I struggle to believe everyone wishes to keep their privacy.

The true cynic in me maybe thinks Phan is their brand and they're just acting up to it because it gets them clicks. And clicks get them money. (I don't believe this but it's a possibility)

They are liars and have lied. They have lied about how they met, they have lied about Bubble Bobble ffs! They are withholding something to do with their relationship.

It is entirely plausible that they are just two men who have an amazing connection and that is all they need in life? Relationships can be fulfilling and intimate without being 'a relationship'.

But THE video. My doubt about yes/no centres heavily around this. I cannot get past a second of it because something about me strikes me as so genuine and true. This is why I cannot fully say they aren't together, because it strikes me as so genuine. But all of the above is reason to me that they AREN'T together.

But the indicators that they are together, to me at least, is growing almost every time they post something as a duo on the internet :?

I think they are approaching a point where something will be said and it will be explicitly addressed. It feels like something is building, and I say this as someone who spent a 2 year absence from the phandom. I feel like everything that is happening now is them testing the waters for an announcement. I also understand that two men being in a relationship is different to a heterosexual one, so there is obviously the consideration of homophobia in this, as well as their own privacy and that they owe us nothing beyond what they chose to share.
I relate to your oscillation and your reasoning a lot. I also rely only on the Halloween gathering arm thing and voldy as Phan "proof" and often find it hard to discount their Phan denials. I won't be 100% sure they're in a romantic relationship unless they say so or have a child (even then, would they not confirm their relationship status? "Can't two bros raise a child without being shipped?")

As far as no one "catching them touching", I can believe that they just never do that in public. After all, they live together and can do whatever they want physically most of their lives. All closeted relationships (even straight ones such as extramarital affairs) are hidden. I personally (with no evidence as to why) feel that if they are a couple and they've told anyone it would only be Bryony and Wirrow and Phil's family. They've been friends with Bryony since they met, but she may not have known since then. Same with Phil's family. They may have only been told in the last few years. These people would be trustworthy and never betray them imo.

I think another reason Dan doesn't even want to expressly state his sexuality could be fear of what has happened to Evan Edinger since coming out as demisexual. I also wonder if not wanting to cause any more drama for Dan's younger brother could even play a part.

Also, what did they lie about about bubble bobble? I'll try doing a search to see if I can find out.

Hope this helps you to know you're not alone in your oscillation. We'll never really know until we know, and there's no prize for the ones who guessed right. The speculation and debate are quite enjoyable/frustrating/depressing depending on the day. I'm glad they are more than just a ship and are really great, caring, and entertaining individuals, so when I'm frustrated not knowing about Phan I can just focus on all those other things. They're my first and only OTP btw, so like a first anything, it's very near and dear to my heart and affects me quite deeply.
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