Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Name

[coffee pig]

Just to clarify, I also don't think it was fair to jump on Bassoonage for what was probably a poorly-worded sentence in a post made late at night. She also made it clear that she wasn't against the idea of Dan and Phil being bisexual. Also, forgive us if we've assumed you are straight, Bassoonage, but the way you worded your posts makes it sound as if you were not speaking from experience when talking about same-sex attraction. If you're still going to read this.

I get that what you're trying to say, I really do. I'm not disputing that someone's perceived ''masculinity'' or ''femininity'' necessarily correlates with their sexuality. I know plenty of straight men who are not typically masculine and feel comfortable enough to talk about guys that they find attractive. It's just a gut feeling that I have that I don't think Dan is one of these people.

There's such a lack of sarcasm and jokes about ''gal pals'' in this post that I don't feel like myself.

[SquishPhan]

A sexual reference in Phil's Twitter favourites? What is life?

And most importantly...Dan changes his Twitter header. #BOTTOMCONFIRMED.

Go Phil.

I like Dan's new twitter header.

[jaej]

if either of them ever deny bisexuality, i'll respect it, but they haven't. they've said it and there's far less to suggest it was a lie than there is to suggest they're actually straight or gay
but something i think people forget is that there are reasons to avoid mentioning your sexuality and hint towards being straight if you want to be closeted and not have it discussed. society is so heteronormative, clearly, that it's easy to drop a little 'haha i like tits' into a conversation and you've got at least an extra 6 months of mostly passing under the radar. at the same time, dan seems to physically hate lying (proper lies, not a video being uploaded 24 hours later than expected) and i just can't see him outright lying about his sexuality. so dropping a couple of little statements on female attraction a few years ago could seem like enough to -prove- straightness. it's also why i think he mentions men more now, he's got something else to try to prove and suggest now

[felucca]

Logging in on IDB today like



A belated to Catallina for this post in the last thread because literally same.

I feel like people exaggerate Dan's past 'problematicness' tbh. Some act like he made nothing but rape jokes and was some raging racist and misogynist. He made insensitive jokes sometimes, but hardly that extreme and he learned from it some years later. Most people his age did. I still like the tasteful dark humor (so without the rape jokes) that made Dan stand out, and I'm pretty sure Dan and Phil still do too but they rarely show it nowadays. Good dark humor is becoming a lost art on the internet it seems, it's like there's no grey area between really gross 'humor' and just cringe memes with bad puns anymore.

It's interesting people say they wouldn't have liked Dan (or Phil) if they had found them a few years ago, it's the exact opposite for me. If I found their videos now, I probably would click away pretty quickly just like I do whenever I watch any video from a Gleamer or someone similar. Aside from Dan and Phil's chemistry together, nothing makes them stand out anymore imo. I don't find their current main channel content as funny as it used to be, their upload schedules have become infuriating (it used to be funny when Dan promised to upload on Thursday but was still editing during Phil's liveshow on Saturday), their personas have become demon hell versions of what they were, and I really just don't give a shit about apps, books and tours.

When I get grumpy these days it's never from a lack of videos (bc who cares) but from a lack of liveshows and other hints they're not actually alternative Gleam robots. This picture is a very accurate description of what the last month in the phandom has felt like to me:



except I've got complaints and all my dreams are dead.

And most importantly...Dan changes his Twitter header. #BOTTOMCONFIRMED.

Thanks, I can't unsee it now.

[Stakhanov]

I think we should introduce a wheel-of-drought on this forum. Exactly 7 days after the last Dan or Phil video has been released, we spin the wheel and start speculating about that aspect of their personality the wheel lands on. Because now we just seem to default to their sexuality (well Dan's mostly) every time.
I did enjoy the many thoughtful and polite contributions.

missemma You have boldly gone where no woman has gone before A phanalysis of his eye reflections, i love it

Sadly, i've gotta say i see Phil in his eye there like i see jesus on my toast.



Which makes me think of a great new product for the shop: Phan - toasters ! With a preconfigured stance to burn phan into your toast (and mind).

[karma_yeah]

NSFW
Meanwhile on the phan bus.

Flushed and panting, Dan pauses to catch his breath. 'Phil! You said you'd read IDB updates while I did this!'

'Right' gasps Phil. 'Uh... this person says you seem like you would never suck on a penis.'

'Oh really' Dan says. 'Good. I don't want to give people the wrong idea.'

All conversation trails off as Dan gets back to business.

I just choked on my cereal! (no Phil, you can't have any! and aren't you a little "preoccupied" right now?)


ps: love the emoji. I'm assuming oqua and her magic?

[tigertatze]

And most importantly...Dan changes his Twitter header. #BOTTOMCONFIRMED.

That just made my day thx (we do need that like/thanks button)

[karma_yeah]

Pen yoink video: Bums me out. They are gracious to their fans, but it's very apparent the disconnect between talent and fan these days with them. Hard to articulate for me. It's mannerisms I've learned to understand from being behind the scenes. And I would bet you $50 that that letter never returned to D&P's hands and got tossed 5min after those girls walked away.

Interesting. What makes you think that? To me, the worse they'd do would be putting all the letters in a bag and have it somewhere and never read them, but I doubt they'd throw them away!

This is something I've wondered for a while: What in the world do they do with all the tons of mail, plushies, and other gifts they've gotten over the years? Do they have a big storage unit somewhere? Or donate stuffed animals/toys they can't keep to a charity?They can't possibly read all the letters (holds hand up to volunteer if they need help).

[Stakhanov]

Since i'm to lazy to type and just nearly died laughing watching "a whole new world" parody, this about sums up my current epistemological position on their sexuality.

How Dan and Phil represent themselves to us:




How we interpret their actions, adding our own beliefs and intuitions ( ):




What we know about the actual truth of the matter:

[mermaid blood]

A belated to Catallina for this post in the last thread because literally same.

I feel like people exaggerate Dan's past 'problematicness' tbh. Some act like he made nothing but rape jokes and was some raging racist and misogynist. He made insensitive jokes sometimes, but hardly that extreme and he learned from it some years later. Most people his age did. I still like the tasteful dark humor (so without the rape jokes) that made Dan stand out, and I'm pretty sure Dan and Phil still do too but they rarely show it nowadays. Good dark humor is becoming a lost art on the internet it seems, it's like there's no grey area between really gross 'humor' and just cringe memes with bad puns anymore.

It's interesting people say they wouldn't have liked Dan (or Phil) if they had found them a few years ago, it's the exact opposite for me. If I found their videos now, I probably would click away pretty quickly just like I do whenever I watch any video from a Gleamer or someone similar. Aside from Dan and Phil's chemistry together, nothing makes them stand out anymore imo. I don't find their current main channel content as funny as it used to be, their upload schedules have become infuriating (it used to be funny when Dan promised to upload on Thursday but was still editing during Phil's liveshow on Saturday), their personas have become demon hell versions of what they were, and I really just don't give a shit about apps, books and tours.

When I get grumpy these days it's never from a lack of videos (bc who cares) but from a lack of liveshows and other hints they're not actually alternative Gleam robots.

thank you for bringing this post to my attention Fel, I missed it.
both of you just summarised what my problem is with them and has been since about January 2015. sigh. i keep seeing little hints that it's still in them (I enjoyed Agario and the last Undertale, for example), but most mostly it's clouded over by all the other junk and i get disillusioned that they are even still comfortable doing this anymore and enjoying themselves.

'demon hell version' personas is too real
thank god for the penis mushroom like Phil, your fecking coke drink tweet made me want to drown myself.

karma_yeah, they probably get donated and gotten rid of pretty quickly, especially on tour. the letters I think they keep. they wouldn't take up much space, and if they're stored somewhere else they can read and then chuck when they've got time to go through. they've commented on getting objects and letters sent back to them from cons at a later date, both overseas and in the UK. there wouldn't be pressure to read through them by any particular deadline. i imagine they've kept some of the ones that touched them, Dan especially seems quite sentimental like that but i could also see Phil doing it.

I miss their liveshow duets
I guess I wait for the Tatinof dvd to experience them singing together again.

[Ticia]

Pen yoink video: Bums me out. They are gracious to their fans, but it's very apparent the disconnect between talent and fan these days with them. Hard to articulate for me. It's mannerisms I've learned to understand from being behind the scenes. And I would bet you $50 that that letter never returned to D&P's hands and got tossed 5min after those girls walked away.

Interesting. What makes you think that? To me, the worse they'd do would be putting all the letters in a bag and have it somewhere and never read them, but I doubt they'd throw them away!

This is something I've wondered for a while: What in the world do they do with all the tons of mail, plushies, and other gifts they've gotten over the years? Do they have a big storage unit somewhere? Or donate stuffed animals/toys they can't keep to a charity?They can't possibly read all the letters (holds hand up to volunteer if they need help).

I think there's a Catrific vlog from a couple of years ago where they all are in DP hotel room reading letters, putting the gifts in boxes to ship them home...and Cat eating the food fans gave them Other than that, they haven't said much, and it makes sense: of course they can't keep everything they receive and have to throw things away/donate them, but recognizing it would bring them such a shitstorm because "omg the fame got into their heads, so rude, much disrespect to their fans, wow".

Edit: just to clarify, the dab picture with Squidward as the header isn't photoshopped, it's his actual Twitter header.

[hunnyftw]

I think we should introduce a wheel-of-drought on this forum. Exactly 7 days after the last Dan or Phil video has been released, we spin the wheel and start speculating about that aspect of their personality the wheel lands on. Because now we just seem to default to their sexuality (well Dan's mostly) every time.
I did enjoy the many thoughtful and polite contributions.

Yeah, that actually looks like a good idea. Maybe I'll get to it someday when I will have a sudden need to procrastinate from something
Also, not to belittle anybody's contribution because many people raised valid and interesting points, but today's grumpy discussions sort of proove somebody's theory (was it IckleMiss or am I imagining stuff?) that whenever the content drought gets a little too long we all get grumpy and start arguing...

[sweetmm]

I'm enjoying the DanEyeBall-gate

[mermaid blood]

^ hunty were you around for the discussions during the nearly month-long drought just before they dropped the bour announcement with no warning? *shudders* i couldn't decide which was worse, before or the shitstorm after. stir craziness is definitely a real illness in the phandom.

[fancybum]

Also in that same Cat vlog (or one of them), they're leaving a M&G or something, and Phil remembers he left all the letters behind and he literally turns and runs back to get them. It's not their fault that the amount of stuff they get now is kind of overwhelming in volume so I'd be surprised if they were able to read everything, but I still think they understand what it means to their fans that they get it/read it and are appreciative of that. I'm sure they just toss them after reading though (well hopefully recycle ), no point keeping it all; they hoard enough in their flat as it is.

Anyway I wonder if Dan will actually post his vid today.. I'm not going to bother judging it until I've actually seen it.

[greatnessflicker]

Logging in on IDB today like

so accurate.

I'm going to just add my quick two cents to some of the covered topics under a spoiler

dan and fan speculation of depression--I love what cora808 said about projection. When it comes to interpretation, I'm a big proponent of the "everything is a rorschach test" truism, in that what we say about something reveals more about us than the something. people who deal with depression are going to naturally, even if it is unconscious, project that onto Dan. as long as it is done in private (as in, nobody's tweeting at dan to get help or starting a charity for him or whatever), I think it is fine.

also, again, this is going to reveal stuff about me, I think it is very telling that in Dan's recent tumblr post about mental health, he calls his troubles "neurosis." At various points in my life I've had various diagnoses, but I usually just refer to general traits I display as neuroses when I'm not sure which diagnosis they fit under. To me, that's a term that implies a slightly more serious issue than relatable human behavior but is also less concrete, more undefined. So dan's use of the term to me means he's saying his issues were serious but not that serious.

nostalgia for early dan and phil--i also love phamnotof's posts about this topic. I was in high school throughout 2009-2012 and definitely would not have been into their image. "Problematic" stuff beside, Dan seemed just very childish and a bit rude (there's a line between sarcasm and rudeness and for me, Dan overstepped it many times). I do get that I'm a bit sensitive, so that probably colors my experiences.

Also, I don't buy that "it was a different time" excuse either. Again, I know I was not into rape jokes when I was in high school (not to say I was perfect. I used the r-slur for a very long time, and then I actually worked with kids with special needs and still feel bad about it). I don't hold it/their past (or anyone's) against them, I just wouldn't have been a fan in their earlier years. However, now that I'm already endeared to present dan and phil, I do look back at them fondly.

I also like bedhead93's post about how, for them, early dan and phil were actually relatable, as opposed to present dan and phil who project reliability but aren't. good insight

mez29 -- that was amazing!

I'm going to jump on the dan and phil gift thing. In addition to the vlogs from conventions, we also see fan gifts in their apartment numerous times. Someone on twitter made dan and phil plushies (I think in the style of tsum tsums? I forget), and then they posted that they saw them on the shelf in the lounge. plus the plushed dogs were a gift. Dan's yeezus sweater and wildcats jersey were gifts. There's the cacti versions of dan and phil in phil's sleepless video. Dan showed genuine love for the black parade box set (?) a fan got him during the USA book signings.

Of course, it is entirely possible that they only keep the best gifts, but I like to think a lot of them are appreciated.

Letters may be a different story because it can be so overwhelming, but I can see dan and phil cracking them out when they aren't feeling so great for a little ego-boost.

somewhere in their kitchen is a drawer just for whisks.

[Vivastian]

I don't think he's gay baiting because I don't over analyse everything he says, every facial expression, every touch, look, dark eye circle. If I knew people were doing that to me I literally couldn't get out of bed and function.

Personally, I think Dan's made it clear that he's asking for over-analysis. Conversations like this one seem to suggest as much; take it as whatever you want—trolling, joking around, but it certainly doesn't paint the picture of it bothering him.

If he were truly uncomfortable with people picking apart his statements on males, he likely wouldn't be continuing to drop them as he's doing, which I wouldn't even qualify as 'over'-analyzing as it happens so often. He's active on social media, so I'm sure he is very aware of the impression that "abs and angst" is making. And yet, he doesn't stop. To me, and to large amount of people, that's significant of something. I don't think the prospect of queerbaiting can be taken so easily off the table if you choose to believe it's not a hint towards who he finds attractive.

This is the best way I can explain my position - To me, as a straight woman, bisexuality equals two sexualities: gay and hetro. If a man tells me he's not gay then I assume he's straight. If he says he's not gay but he's actually bi, then, to me, he's a liar and an ass.

I must say, you defend your claims on Dan's sexuality very aggressively.

Firstly, bisexuality is a sensitive subject, even more so considering the large population on IDB. Often, it is ridiculed, demeaned, seen of as a stage, a transition period, ignored, or blatantly referred to as a 'fake sexuality'. Discussion of it extends past just Dan's orientation and to the wider social context as a whole. I don't think aggression displayed here is as much defending that orientation as it is defending the nature of bisexuals and queer individuals, on principle.

I somewhat understand the basis of what you try to say beforehand. Correct me if I'm wrong—you're stating that you consider statements like "I'm not gay" from a bisexual deceptive? That a question contains connotations that should immediately prompt a "but I'm bisexual"?

I disagree. It communicates a lack of empathy; evasive answers are a common way of staying in the closet when you're not ready to come out, or if it's not safe to. Would you refer to a gay man as an ass too, if he was misleading about his sexuality? Would you really consider a lie in that case unjustified? I don't think anyone has the right to feel betrayed when it's such a heavy-weighted inquiry.

What needs to also be recognized is that the only reason why it's considered deceptive is because of the black and white (gay or hetero) perspective. "Are you gay?" does not equate to "are you into guys?" and saying "I'm not gay" does not equate to "I'm straight."

And I don't see why it should.

[DryCereal]

Also, not to belittle anybody's contribution because many people raised valid and interesting points, but today's grumpy discussions sort of proove somebody's theory (was it IckleMiss or am I imagining stuff?) that whenever the content drought gets a little too long we all get grumpy and start arguing...

Dunno if I said it publicly, (even if so, I doubt I'd be the only one...!) but I don't disagree with it!

As for mail/gifts etc - Unless they're at an event, where we've seen them packing stuff to post back, it must get sent ether to the BBC or to Flipside/Channelflip? I know I'd be tempted to scrapbook the letters etc and keep them same for the crafty stuff, or at least photograph it and scrapbook those... (fight me, I'm a sappy, sappy hoarder!) - as for the gifts/toys etc, I'd quietly donate them.

[Catallena]

jfc this disucssion. Yikes. Just... No. Leave it up to me fellow straighties to be problematic so I feel the need to apologize. *bows head in shame*

This is the best way I can explain my position - To me, as a straight woman, bisexuality equals two sexualities: gay and hetro. If a man tells me he's not gay then I assume he's straight. If he says he's not gay but he's actually bi, then, to me, he's a liar and an ass.

To me, as another straight woman, you're full of crap. Bisexuality is not the combination of being gay and straight. It is it's own thing. Please read up on sexualities that aren't your own before giving opinions on them and the people who may or may not identify as such D:


ANYWAY. Loving the thread title Content drought is real, D&P are boring and I can't wait for this tour to be over.

If I were a popular YouTuber I'd feel so guilty about getting all these letters and presents, there's just no way you can keep all of it unless you live in a massive house (with a dog, glass walls and a koi pond ) or have a storage unit, but even then you'd just put away everything you get and never look at it again which is still really sad? Especially with artwork, someone slaved over that for hours and you'd just look at it once and then box it up somewhere. I'd feel really shit about it ._.

[greatnessflicker]

(lol, under my spoiler i accidentally refer to bedhead91 as bedhead93. sorry for projecting what I assume your birth year is with mine)

[coffee pig]

(lol, under my spoiler i accidentally refer to bedhead91 as bedhead93. sorry for projecting what I assume your birth year is with mine)

This is a bit spooky because 1993 is my actual birth year. I tend to lie about my birthday/birth year on the internet because I'm paranoid and '91 is the default year I go to, for some reason. You've found me out.

phamnotof wrote:
And I guess for me, this way is preferable even as far as experiencing them as celebrities goes, I would just not be comfortable being a fan of someone who I could think of in terms of 'just like me', but that's personal preference and a desire for boundaries. Like I honestly prefer this, I prefer a good production value and a firmly set wall, I've got poorly edited and badly lit friends who make terrible jokes IRL. I like that they're a business now, because I am fascinated by personas, I think they're an artform, good branding is like porn to me, the gap between persona and private citizens keeps me up at night - this is what I like. I like storytelling and entertainment and I don't find it manipulative, fanservice to me is their job, serve me up, bro, just do it in a way that I can enjoy, sell yourself well or then I'll be unhappy. I need you to be fictional to a degree, or else I won't be able to project my everything onto you. But again, this is preference.

I don't have time now to respond to this properly but I find it interesting how we have such different perspectives on this. Like angrymob said, I didn't get into YouTube for high production value or a firmly set wall, I got into it precisely because it was different from the other types of media I was already consuming. It wasn't polished, it was self-produced, it was made by people like me...which was fun and different. It's strange that even now, I wouldn't exactly label myself as a ''fan'' of or even think of them as celebrities, even though they technically are. I've accepted how YouTube has changed over the years gradually but begrudgingly, like a crotchety grandmother who has been forced by her children to learn how to use a computer.

[Lain]

jfc this disucssion. Yikes. Just... No. Leave it up to me fellow straighties to be problematic so I feel the need to apologize. *bows head in shame*

I'm honestly floored.

[karma_yeah]

Re: letters/gifts receive - I agree, they are SO sentimental, I don't think they would throw letters and fan art away, and if they did donate plushies they would definitely need to do it quietly. I was just trying to imagine where they would keep everything. We've gotten a couple of glimpses inside some closets, and lets face it, organization is not their forte!

As for mail/gifts etc - Unless they're at an event, where we've seen them packing stuff to post back, it must get sent ether to the BBC or to Flipside/Channelflip? I know I'd be tempted to scrapbook the letters etc and keep them same for the crafty stuff, or at least photograph it and scrapbook those... (fight me, I'm a sappy, sappy hoarder!) - as for the gifts/toys etc, I'd quietly donate them.

But Flipside/Channelflip "managing" that aspect for them makes sense (or maybe they have an attic in their place with lots of boxes).

ps happy belated IckleMissMayhem

[DryCereal]

Re: letters/gifts receive - I agree, they are SO sentimental, I don't think they would throw letters and fan art away, and if they did donate plushies they would definitely need to do it quietly. I was just trying to imagine where they would keep everything. We've gotten a couple of glimpses inside some closets, and lets face it, organization is not their forte!

As for mail/gifts etc - Unless they're at an event, where we've seen them packing stuff to post back, it must get sent ether to the BBC or to Flipside/Channelflip? I know I'd be tempted to scrapbook the letters etc and keep them same for the crafty stuff, or at least photograph it and scrapbook those... (fight me, I'm a sappy, sappy hoarder!) - as for the gifts/toys etc, I'd quietly donate them.

But Flipside/Channelflip "managing" that aspect for them makes sense (or maybe they have an attic in their place with lots of boxes).

ps happy belated IckleMissMayhem

Thanks! - and they DO have an attic, "where the girl from .... definitely lives" (am i imagining that Phil once mentioned he'd explored it during a LS, much to Dan's surprise?)

[hunnyftw]

^ hunty were you around for the discussions during the nearly month-long drought just before they dropped the bour announcement with no warning? *shudders* i couldn't decide which was worse, before or the shitstorm after. stir craziness is definitely a real illness in the phandom.

[offtopic]I was a Deppy fan but I wasn't on gigi and I'm glad tbh because let me tell you, I perceived it (and still do!) as a dramatic change of direction from them and I really didn't take it lightly; neither the style in which they made the shift, nor the actual content that it entailed. Seeing fellow grumpy humans would only strengthen those negative feelings so it's probably for the better that I worked through that on my own.[/offtopic]