Dan & Phil Part 28: Possibly very gay

[alittledizzy]

Disagree on the sexist thing. If anything he's being ageist, he's assuming he has a young fanbase (which primarily, he does) that won't care about the things he's talking to or don't have enough life perspective to understand the impact of politics. It's the same tone he gets when talking about mature movies and tv shows, where he has strong opinions he wants to share but he doesn't think anyone cares. A little pretentious but also a little bit pre-emptively defensive because he knows he'll be told no one cares or just asked to talk about anime again if he goes on too long.

I think if Dan were standing in front of a 25-30 year old woman his tone wouldn't be the same, but in his eyes - like it or not - we're all lumped together in a stereotype of a teenager.

[Skeletorsrighthand]

Disagree on the sexist thing. If anything he's being ageist, he's assuming he has a young fanbase (which primarily, he does) that won't care about the things he's talking to or don't have enough life perspective to understand the impact of politics. It's the same tone he gets when talking about mature movies and tv shows, where he has strong opinions he wants to share but he doesn't think anyone cares. A little pretentious but also a little bit pre-emptively defensive because he knows he'll be told no one cares or just asked to talk about anime again if he goes on too long.

I think if Dan were standing in front of a 25-30 year old woman his tone wouldn't be the same, but in his eyes - like it or not - we're all lumped together in a stereotype of a teenager.

i would think that too if every liveshow AHS and stranger things are mentioned again and again and again.

[offtopic]I would love it if Dan talks about more video games stuff does he play RTS ? if so whats his favorite ? Grand strategy ? MOBAS ?[/offtopic]

[mio]

Interesting points, also on the possible sexism part. I agree that it's a thing a lot of guys do, even in liberal environments. Interesting enough I never felt that coming from him in any way (except for some stupid jokes way back) and he never seems to emphazise that his fanbase is mostly girls either.

It's probably the way some of you mentioned - he does feels he is more educated/intelligent than most of his audience, judging on the average age of the phandom and the kind of questions asked on the liveshows (anime, new videos, school, phil..) and sees it as his mission to educate people and tell them about the thigns that "really" matter.

I just never felt personally offended when he acts a bit high and mighty, because I'm older and pretentiousmyself.
But it's true that these kind of comments can come across as offensive, especially if you're a (younger) girl.

[spaceguitar]

Whatevs now I'm just watching an old joint live show. I think that dan gets into ultra-pretentious mode when talking to the chat during live shows- but he really doesn't as much in interactions with other people

[vincentian]

Disagree on the sexist thing. If anything he's being ageist, he's assuming he has a young fanbase (which primarily, he does) that won't care about the things he's talking to or don't have enough life perspective to understand the impact of politics. It's the same tone he gets when talking about mature movies and tv shows, where he has strong opinions he wants to share but he doesn't think anyone cares. A little pretentious but also a little bit pre-emptively defensive because he knows he'll be told no one cares or just asked to talk about anime again if he goes on too long.

I think if Dan were standing in front of a 25-30 year old woman his tone wouldn't be the same, but in his eyes - like it or not - we're all lumped together in a stereotype of a teenager.

I think Dan partially uses pretentious tone for comedic effect, especially when he goes from “name my cactus” and meme talk to some higher matters and fancier words in 3 seconds. I also don’t think he is that genuine when he aborts the conversation on “serious” subjects because he’s convinced the audience doesn’t care (even if most of it probably doesn’t). Unless it’s a really sensitive subject (like sexuality, that audience will instantly project on him) he probably doesn’t hold back that much (do not listen to what he says); I doubt he has a well-thought-out speech prepared for each occasion anyway, and what he ends up saying is probably it. What bugs me though is that I see people on tumblr and twitter genuinely praising him for how well-spoken and intelligent he is after he drops a couple of “deep” things in the middle of generally chatty liveshow, it’s like a joke in itself. He may be intelligent, but this effect is created simply due to this funny contrast of serious talk to rest of the liveshow.

[flurry]

Hi guys, this is my first time posting so I'm not sure how this works. I've been lurking about for some time because the threads here seem quite interesting! I've been watching Dan and Phil since about 2010, with bouts of interest where I catch up on their videos and then bouts where I just watch other things in the meantime. I've followed them pretty consistently though so it's interesting to see all the analysis and thoughts here! Hope I can contribute in some way

Also, the time Dan and Phil do younows is literally in the middle of the night for me, so I appreciate all the sharing here of the things that happened during their younows!

[spaceguitar]

I think Dan partially uses pretentious tone for comedic effect, especially when he goes from “name my cactus” and meme talk to some higher matters and fancier words in 3 seconds. I also don’t think he is that genuine when he aborts the conversation on “serious” subjects because he’s convinced the audience doesn’t care (even if most of it probably doesn’t). Unless it’s a really sensitive subject (like sexuality, that audience will instantly project on him) he probably doesn’t hold back that much (do not listen to what he says); he probably doesn’t have a well-thought-out speech prepared for each occasion anyway, and what he ends up saying is probably it. What bugs me though is that I see people on tumblr and twitter genuinely praising him for how well-spoken and intelligent he is after he drops a couple of “deep” things in the middle of generally chatty liveshow, it’s like a joke in itself. He may be intelligent, but this effect is created simply due to this funny contrast of serious talk to rest of the liveshow.

Sometimes I find it funny. Like when he was having an actual conversation with the chat and someone said 'time is just concept' and he got really serious and went, 'yeah it is. so are a lot of things. like morality. or language.' and then just stared at the screen for 5 seconds. I think I laughed out loud at that. I find that comedic. Other times I find the #deep stuff too pretentious.
(I agree that it can be annoying to see fans praising him, but fans are going to praise, so whatever.)

[helvetica]

Hi guys, this is my first time posting so I'm not sure how this works. !

welcome

[Catallena]

HAPPY 7th PHANNIVERSARRY. Let's all hope Phan survives The Seven Year Itch.

I usually find Dan to be very condescending towards his audience during liveshows, it's the reason I don't watch them anymore. They just piss me off. He isn't pretentious on the level of Jack or Hazel, but he does treat his audience like morons sometimes. The unnecessary lying, the 'you all probably don't care/know this/are too young' thing and him trying to sound wise and profound on so many topics including stupid shit like pop culture (he takes shit more seriously than your average ONTD member sometimes wtf?) is just so eye roll inducing it gave me headaches every Tuesday. Phil's liveshows are boring but at least don't leave me in a worse mood than I started out with. When they still joined each other's liveshows in the last 10 minutes it was somewhat worth it, but now I'm really only here for joint liveshows (still annoyed they deliver for the TATINOF release on YTR btw).

As far as the wealth of the Howell family goes, they were able to afford family holidays to far away expensive destinations, but I think Dan did say once that because they traveled so much their house wasn't all that fancy. So average middle class, but definitely not poor. I'm guessing he just meant that he didn't get much of an allowance before he was allowed to work, like my best friend's father made double what my father made but her allowance was half of mine.

Disagree on the sexist thing. If anything he's being ageist, he's assuming he has a young fanbase (which primarily, he does) that won't care about the things he's talking to or don't have enough life perspective to understand the impact of politics. It's the same tone he gets when talking about mature movies and tv shows, where he has strong opinions he wants to share but he doesn't think anyone cares. A little pretentious but also a little bit pre-emptively defensive because he knows he'll be told no one cares or just asked to talk about anime again if he goes on too long.

I think if Dan were standing in front of a 25-30 year old woman his tone wouldn't be the same, but in his eyes - like it or not - we're all lumped together in a stereotype of a teenager.

Specifically the stereotype of a teenage girl though. So it would be ageism and sexism.

[alittledizzy]

Timestamps for Dan's liveshow from yesterday.

1:00 - "I have no idea why I own this." Unless a fan says they bought it, I'm gonna call bullshit on Dan having had this one for a while and not realizing it. If he'd owned a Winnie the Pooh one for a while surely we'd have seen that before, given that Pooh is his childhood fave.
2:14 - Moulin Rouge was one of his favorite movies as a child.
2:31 - "We knew you were a furry, honey." No denial.
2:52 - Epic thumbing. "How many thumbs do I have inside me right now?"
5:42 - Spooky Week video on dinof or AP - he doesn't know what the plan is yet. Another example of how they come up with a video idea first together then just decide where it will go.
6:44 - Asked about still having the Tonberry: "Still have the- the- all the- plushes on a giant wardrobe over there." Then some waffle about dusting. Did he not read that question entirely before he said it aloud? Or did he just read it aloud impulsively and then immediatly regret it and stumble over his words?
7:16 - Dan's face talking about Phil in the child's car. Beamy McBoyfriendFace. "I was worried that Phil would die going down this corridor as fast as possible, but he did it quickly and I was in a state of shock, as many people showed me."
8:15 - Starts to read a question "Can you-" then stops himself and laughs and moves on quickly.
9:16 - Last - "maybe" - of the TATINOF related stuff: 360 video.
10:34 - And something on Phil's channel. "As a bonus for the people subscribed to Phil's channel." Describes what they're uploading there as "a funny, awful video."
11:11 - What an aggressive BOOP.
12:10 - Cringe rant.
13:33 - Dan talks about AHS, makes sure we know what Phil's theory was.
14:10 - Dan is asked if he's ever tried VR, makes sure we know it would make Phil sick.
14:42 - Asked how it feels to be inside a bear - the tiniest smirk ever. Also the way he says "oh yeahhh" sounds like a Phil thing.
15:55 - London and LA book events. They managed to tell their viewers before the actual bookstores for once, I'm impressed.
17:35 - Write the word 'Dan' as someone is punching you, DIY Dan autograph.
17:53 - Q&A event will be recorded, go on dinof.
18:34 - He and Phil filmed an exciting, mysteryious (Youtube Rewind) thing. They are in it more than last year.
19:28 - "They did not tell me and Phil that they wanted us to turn up somewhere at six am and do exercise for five hours."
21:01 - "Speaking of girl groups, Phil's keeping me watching The X-Factor." He keeps you watching it, Dan? Is this what you do during bondage time?
22:39 - "Me and Phil finally watched Stranger Things."
24:22 - "What's your favorite soccer team? "No."
25:00 - Hillary or Trump? Not Trump.
27:20 - Money/capitalism rant. People don't need to get merch, it's just nice for people that have money and can. "When I was a teenager my family didn't have any money, I had no merchandise, I never went to concerts."
29:08 - Yuri on Ice. He's enjoying it, but it's more of a fanservicey comedy than a drama and he likes his drama animes.
31:32 - "Maybe we'll do a poll. Or maybe I'll just ask Phil and he'll have a strong opinion."
32:48 - Fargo.
34:30 - Still Fargo. "We just watched the second season of it, me and Phil finished it."
35:11 - gif vs jif
36:18 - Outlast 2 demo, FNAF Sister Location - spooky week games.
37:27 - kpop talk; fave BTS song? "Boy in Love - that one sounds fun."
38:30 - "Speaking of tv shows that I hate that Phil makes me watch." Someone please remind Dan that he can actually leave a room that Phil is in, it is physically possible.
38:40 - Long capitalism/The Apprentice rant.
41:53 - Doesn't want to do another tumblr tag, but "Phil might one day." Long cute stretchy move.
42:00 - Dan doesn't like filming the same video over and over, and in other news, stay tuned for ISG 7938542 next week.
43:09 - Clocks are wrong. Dan disagrees with clocks.
43:50 - Time is just a concept. "Yeah, it is. But I mean, lots of things are concepts. So's morality. And language. And purpose. Take away concepts, and we're just biological beings that want to eat and have sex and kill things that threaten the things we want to eat and have sex with. So, you can reject your concepts and get all uppity about that or you can accept that concepts are fun. Just putting that out there."
46:13 - Dan would be an air nomad in A:TLA.
48:20 - Do you respect nonbinary people's pronouns? "Gender is a construct. Sex is biological, gender doesn't mean anything. What is gender? Honestly. Call yourself a frickin' banana, I don't care. Just be comfortable with who you are."
50:52 - Make Phil dress as Piglet. "Wow, the strange erotic AU I don't want to read about on tumblr later." the pooh bear doth protest too much.
51:12 - Last couple tatinof videos (maybe).

[Diyes_Celine]

Finally got to watch Dan's liveshow. I shouldn't be surprised by now that he is a condescending piece of twat. I was never a fan of his personality so I just watch him because I really like Phil and he is cute. I really thought he got better with joking how great he is (intellectual bleh). But I wanted to punch him for everything he said that offended me (e.g. Tumblr tag). Sometimes I wonder if that really is his humour, his defense mechanism or his real personality.

If he really is this annoying irl, no wonder Phil's old friends don't like him.

Happy 7 yrs of tolersting each other.

[eevee]

If he really is this annoying irl, no wonder Phil's old friends don't like him.

Happy 7 yrs of tolersting each other.

Lighten up m8

[antigone]

wow lol

I like this side of Dan tbh

[anathema]

Finally got to watch Dan's liveshow. I shouldn't be surprised by now that he is a condescending piece of twat. I was never a fan of his personality so I just watch him because I really like Phil and he is cute. I really thought he got better with joking how great he is (intellectual bleh). But I wanted to punch him for everything he said that offended me (e.g. Tumblr tag). Sometimes I wonder if that really is his humour, his defense mechanism or his real personality.

If he really is this annoying irl, no wonder Phil's old friends don't like him.

(lol jk)

Okay but in all seriousness; to you and the others who only like one of them: how do you feel about their brands being so connected? And that they don't have separate fan bases? Do you not care or do you wish they didn't have the sole "Dan and Phil" brand/they had separate fandoms?

[cold-tea]

Dan's ls have always put me in a bad mood so I don't even bother with them. I don't watch his videos as well unless Phil is in it/mentioned

I don't really care about their fan base being so intertwined but sometimes I wanna gouge my eyes out when another Dan topic that's been beat to death gets brought up again.

[SquishPhan]

Do I think Dan can be pretentious? Yes.
Do I think that Dan is sexist? No, not at all.

[visiblelurker]

wow lol

I like this side of Dan tbh

Me too. Part of Dan's appeal to me is his evolution.

I first came across him in 2012 and despite liking his content, I just backed away and went back to doing my best impression of a productive member of society. In younows and dailybooth stuff, he just came across as someone who was so uncomfortable with himself and desperate for approval and quite frankly, not someone who seemed very fun to follow. I came across him again within the last year and it actually took me a couple videos to place him.

Does Dan have flaws? Yes, who doesn't. Do people have a right to critique him as they perceive things? Absolutely, plus that's what makes this forum interesting. Personally, I just wish criticisms of him would be more based in the context of what he overall shows us rather than isolating singular instances and conjecturing claims from that.

Just to be clear, I am in no way trying to censor others' opinions and discussion, but this is just my two cents. (and now back into lurkerdom).

[PhansThrowPillows]

Timestamps for Dan's liveshow from yesterday.

1:00 - "I have no idea why I own this." Unless a fan says they bought it, I'm gonna call bullshit on Dan having had this one for a while and not realizing it. If he'd owned a Winnie the Pooh one for a while surely we'd have seen that before, given that Pooh is his childhood fave.
2:14 - Moulin Rouge was one of his favorite movies as a child.
2:31 - "We knew you were a furry, honey." No denial.
2:52 - Epic thumbing. "How many thumbs do I have inside me right now?"
5:42 - Spooky Week video on dinof or AP - he doesn't know what the plan is yet. Another example of how they come up with a video idea first together then just decide where it will go.
6:44 - Asked about still having the Tonberry: "Still have the- the- all the- plushes on a giant wardrobe over there." Then some waffle about dusting. Did he not read that question entirely before he said it aloud? Or did he just read it aloud impulsively and then immediatly regret it and stumble over his words?
7:16 - Dan's face talking about Phil in the child's car. Beamy McBoyfriendFace. "I was worried that Phil would die going down this corridor as fast as possible, but he did it quickly and I was in a state of shock, as many people showed me."
8:15 - Starts to read a question "Can you-" then stops himself and laughs and moves on quickly.
9:16 - Last - "maybe" - of the TATINOF related stuff: 360 video.
10:34 - And something on Phil's channel. "As a bonus for the people subscribed to Phil's channel." Describes what they're uploading there as "a funny, awful video."
11:11 - What an aggressive BOOP.
12:10 - Cringe rant.
13:33 - Dan talks about AHS, makes sure we know what Phil's theory was.
14:10 - Dan is asked if he's ever tried VR, makes sure we know it would make Phil sick.
14:42 - Asked how it feels to be inside a bear - the tiniest smirk ever. Also the way he says "oh yeahhh" sounds like a Phil thing.
15:55 - London and LA book events. They managed to tell their viewers before the actual bookstores for once, I'm impressed.
17:35 - Write the word 'Dan' as someone is punching you, DIY Dan autograph.
17:53 - Q&A event will be recorded, go on dinof.
18:34 - He and Phil filmed an exciting, mysteryious (Youtube Rewind) thing. They are in it more than last year.
19:28 - "They did not tell me and Phil that they wanted us to turn up somewhere at six am and do exercise for five hours."
21:01 - "Speaking of girl groups, Phil's keeping me watching The X-Factor." He keeps you watching it, Dan? Is this what you do during bondage time?
22:39 - "Me and Phil finally watched Stranger Things."
24:22 - "What's your favorite soccer team? "No."
25:00 - Hillary or Trump? Not Trump.
27:20 - Money/capitalism rant. People don't need to get merch, it's just nice for people that have money and can. "When I was a teenager my family didn't have any money, I had no merchandise, I never went to concerts."
29:08 - Yuri on Ice. He's enjoying it, but it's more of a fanservicey comedy than a drama and he likes his drama animes.
31:32 - "Maybe we'll do a poll. Or maybe I'll just ask Phil and he'll have a strong opinion."
32:48 - Fargo.
34:30 - Still Fargo. "We just watched the second season of it, me and Phil finished it."
35:11 - gif vs jif
36:18 - Outlast 2 demo, FNAF Sister Location - spooky week games.
37:27 - kpop talk; fave BTS song? "Boy in Love - that one sounds fun."
38:30 - "Speaking of tv shows that I hate that Phil makes me watch." Someone please remind Dan that he can actually leave a room that Phil is in, it is physically possible.
38:40 - Long capitalism/The Apprentice rant.
41:53 - Doesn't want to do another tumblr tag, but "Phil might one day." Long cute stretchy move.
42:00 - Dan doesn't like filming the same video over and over, and in other news, stay tuned for ISG 7938542 next week.
43:09 - Clocks are wrong. Dan disagrees with clocks.
43:50 - Time is just a concept. "Yeah, it is. But I mean, lots of things are concepts. So's morality. And language. And purpose. Take away concepts, and we're just biological beings that want to eat and have sex and kill things that threaten the things we want to eat and have sex with. So, you can reject your concepts and get all uppity about that or you can accept that concepts are fun. Just putting that out there."
46:13 - Dan would be an air nomad in A:TLA.
48:20 - Do you respect nonbinary people's pronouns? "Gender is a construct. Sex is biological, gender doesn't mean anything. What is gender? Honestly. Call yourself a frickin' banana, I don't care. Just be comfortable with who you are."
50:52 - Make Phil dress as Piglet. "Wow, the strange erotic AU I don't want to read about on tumblr later." the pooh bear doth protest too much.
51:12 - Last couple tatinof videos (maybe).

I was going to just let this be but now that I saw it in writing I guess I can't...

Chat: Do you respect nonbinary people's pronouns?
Dan: "Gender is a construct. Sex is biological, gender doesn't mean anything. What is gender? Honestly.''
Me:

Dan: ''Call yourself a frickin' banana, I don't care."
Me:

I can honestly say that Dan is one of the few people ''in the public eye'' who I feel like gets that gender is a spectrum and who seems to have genuinely changed their previous ways of thinking. It's something that I like the most about him, the way he's evolved. He seems, to me at least, a person who respects others and isn't only ''sensitive'' ''because tumblr'' or whatever. There have been several times that I've felt included specifically because of something that he has said, not in an ambiguous way either but in a way that he's made sure to include everyone and it has made me happy and it has made me be able to let my mental guard down a bit when I watch his content (something that doesn't happen easily).

So to hear him say ''Call yourself a frickin' banana, I don't care." made me pause for a second. Like, that's literally a comment that people make when they don't understand, don't want to understand or just want to be mean/transphobic. It's like when people say something like ''there are only two genders and everyone else is just a special snowflake and what's next I have to respect your fruitness and your marriage with a dog lolzor whatever, be a banana I don't care.''

I KNOW that's not how he meant it but it really wasn't great to hear him say that especially when that's exactly the way your identity gets triviliased daily. So yeah, not a great choice of words...at least he ended with ''Just be comfortable with who you are." ....thanks, Dan. So I guess I'll just focus on the underlying message and be happy with that...maybe.

Anyway, can't wait for the spooks!

[rizzo]

Finally got to watch Dan's liveshow. I shouldn't be surprised by now that he is a condescending piece of twat. I was never a fan of his personality so I just watch him because I really like Phil and he is cute. I really thought he got better with joking how great he is (intellectual bleh). But I wanted to punch him for everything he said that offended me (e.g. Tumblr tag). Sometimes I wonder if that really is his humour, his defense mechanism or his real personality.

If he really is this annoying irl, no wonder Phil's old friends don't like him.

Okay but in all seriousness; to you and the others who only like one of them: how do you feel about their brands being so connected? And that they don't have separate fan bases? Do you not care or do you wish they didn't have the sole "Dan and Phil" brand/they had separate fandoms?

I'm not one of those people, but I did want to tack on to this. I personally think someone's friends are a very strong reflection on who they are as a person. Given that Phil and Dan could fuse into each other and nobody would notice, it's not a far stretch to judge Phil based on his friend. Phil chooses to spend literally all of his time with Dan, to watch every show with him, to have every convo, and to share almost every material thing. If you don't like Dan... how do you like Phil?

It comes down to the way they present themselves to their audience, in which case I don't know if it's fair to say Dan's condescending or that it's no surprise Phil's friends don't like him or whatever. IDK. If there's something about Dan that's annoying, it's guaranteed Phil shares a similar opinion or viewpoint, if only less publicly.

[papierklemmen]

well this escalated quickly!!

idk i would disagree about sharing viewpoints with friends. especially on social issues, especially when you're a white priviliged guy. they doncurr and won't curr.

but dan's visible flaws that people might find repulsive are more to do with his temperament and they might actually mellow down when he's with his chill friends. i can be loud, obnoxious, negative and rude - but when i'm with my very kind and loving friend i'm all " ". and if i'm not she will sass me lol.

the 'banana' thing sounded a bit...idk insensitive. kinda reminded me of people who pretend they are not racist by saying "whether you're white, black, yellow, green, purple, rainbow colored it doesnt matter". it just shows you don't really care about the issue, to you it's a joke. yeah.

p.s. i like them both but i still wish they had more of independant content sometimes. and equally too cause it seems like all opportunities go to dan (documentary).

[Waggle9007]

360 video!!

[mio]

The banana comment was stupid an makes me a bit angry too. But I don't think he had any bad intentions by saying it. Still something people should call him out for, like anybody else, so that he can learn.
It often feels like he wants to fit in with the tumblr sj crowd (which is great imo) and the general liberal consensus that became the norm online during the last years (I mean the internet was waaay different in 2009, or even when tumblr started to become a thing), but it doesn't work all the time yet. Not enough experience/exposure? Maybe. It's a learning process and everybody slips up.
I just keep compairing this Dan to the way he used to be in the beginning and well, I'm glad he's come this far. (and otherwise I'd have unfollowed long ago tbh)

Do we have any comments on this topic from Phil btw?

[bluebox-away]

So now we just need to watch that video from every possible angle to search the dressing room for clues right? Honestly, I really liked it even though I didn't expect much, I feel like that was kind of the 'realest' we've seen them in a long while, they looked so nervous right before they went on bless them

Also, info about the Q&A thing's in 2 hours apparently! I really hope I can go to the London one

[Diyes_Celine]

Finally got to watch Dan's liveshow. I shouldn't be surprised by now that he is a condescending piece of twat. I was never a fan of his personality so I just watch him because I really like Phil and he is cute. I really thought he got better with joking how great he is (intellectual bleh). But I wanted to punch him for everything he said that offended me (e.g. Tumblr tag). Sometimes I wonder if that really is his humour, his defense mechanism or his real personality.

If he really is this annoying irl, no wonder Phil's old friends don't like him.

Okay but in all seriousness; to you and the others who only like one of them: how do you feel about their brands being so connected? And that they don't have separate fan bases? Do you not care or do you wish they didn't have the sole "Dan and Phil" brand/they had separate fandoms?

I'm not one of those people, but I did want to tack on to this. I personally think someone's friends are a very strong reflection on who they are as a person. Given that Phil and Dan could fuse into each other and nobody would notice, it's not a far stretch to judge Phil based on his friend. Phil chooses to spend literally all of his time with Dan, to watch every show with him, to have every convo, and to share almost every material thing. If you don't like Dan... how do you like Phil?

It comes down to the way they present themselves to their audience, in which case I don't know if it's fair to say Dan's condescending or that it's no surprise Phil's friends don't like him or whatever. IDK. If there's something about Dan that's annoying, it's guaranteed Phil shares a similar opinion or viewpoint, if only less publicly.

I compare it to a friend who has an annoying s/o but you chose to tolerate that person because 1. You don't really know how their relationship works coz you are not part of it. 2. Your friend seems to be happy.

I actually like Dan now compared to when I started watching them despite his condescending tone and his sometimes uninformed opinion. I even watch his ls now. I really like how he really talks about world issues. But it really irks me when he talks about his thought process of creating videos. Their recent videos are often a rehash of something. If he could just stop talking about his "bright" idea and simply show it.

Joint branding: I really like it because Phil gained a lot from that. I have accepted that Phil's audience will not grow if not for Dan. Phil is not relatable. He doesn't have a pretty face. He is too weird to be mainstream. He is an acquired taste.
I still sometimes think what could have been if they weren't always compared to each other. Or, if they didn't collaborate that often. Maybe Phil will be like PJ? I will never know but I guess I like the current et-up.
Also, the joint branding lessened the annoying hardcore Dangirls. Less people to argue with in Tumblr.

[nephilimcat]

Everything was fine until Dan took the camera and moved it so much. I wanted to view Phil ffs He was looking so damn good I think I'm officially a Philgirl now I will watch it again though, I want to see the rest and Dan too. I just wanted to have a look at Phil first.

I love Dan, but I've been a bit impatient with him recently. I don't even know why. I just know that the banana comment didn't help, even though I know he meant it in a positive way and probably didn't realise how many people could actually be offended or hurt because of it. He wouldn't have said it, if that was the case because it's Dan we're talking about.
I like his personality, it just riles me up sometimes. Maybe because there are some things he does and says that remind me of myself. I do have a kind of annoying personality, just like him. I obviously don't know him, but it seems very similar. Would explain why I love Phil so much though