Dan & Phil Part 33: #JustBroThings

[alittledizzy]

I don't have time to do timestamps tonight but I definitely heard "our life" and I'm living for lowkey furry phan.

Also I am repeating myself from a few days ago, but damn - I love this month. And I love them this month.

I still genuinely don't think that we're only getting videos every day because Dan and Phil want to game an algorithm. I think neither of them are people who can be motivated to do something this big of a commitment with money as the sole motivator. It's hard for me to even imagine how people see them as strictly monetarily motivated. I am hesitant to give any single reason why they're doing this, I still think it was a combination of reasons all coming together - renewed enthusiasm for youtube itself now that they have time to concentrate on it, a desire to acclimatize their audience to a Dan and Phil who are more flirty and affectionate in one big push, and of course the fact that December is the most advantageous time to be trying this.

But basically no matter the reason, I'm grateful the stars aligned and we get this and they seem so into it and each other.

[mermaid blood]

^ it's a super enjoyable time, isn't it?

the games themselves are kind of like...the least important part of why one would watch dan and phil. i wanna tell people who are frustrated with the game choices, just sit back and watch two people be nice to one another on camera again, dudes. if you're viewing them from the perspective of having seen all the years that came before, that in itself is it's own christmas present.

[corn flakes]

I just continue to find how they seem fond of each other lovely, any chance he is visiting the uk and may met deppy? and may film something with them?

[fancybum]

I still genuinely don't think that we're only getting videos every day because Dan and Phil want to game an algorithm. I think neither of them are people who can be motivated to do something this big of a commitment with money as the sole motivator. It's hard for me to even imagine how people see them as strictly monetarily motivated. I am hesitant to give any single reason why they're doing this, I still think it was a combination of reasons all coming together - renewed enthusiasm for youtube itself now that they have time to concentrate on it, a desire to acclimatize their audience to a Dan and Phil who are more flirty and affectionate in one big push, and of course the fact that December is the most advantageous time to be trying this.

But basically no matter the reason, I'm grateful the stars aligned and we get this and they seem so into it and each other.

Agreed with all of this so hard. I was watching today's video and when it got to the lean in moment, my brain almost melted. How can anybody look at Phil in that moment and not see somebody pulling back from an expected kiss (and not in a bad way, just a 'we're filming, not right now' kind of way-- his little glance to see what Dan was going for, realizing it wasn't a kiss and continuing the bants), I feel like there is something very intentional going on. Beyond just intentionally loosening up and letting the chips fall where they may re: viewer/? perceptions etc. Every video. Every one. I don't even know what it means, but my immediate thought after this video was 'they're on a timeline', they're building to something. NOT A COMING OUT, but something on the horizon they're both aware of. I don't know, there's just something bigger picture happening behind the scenes that we're not aware of yet..? and it's exciting and wonderful and a little scary. I'm just so happy? Mixed with the ever-present frustration at certain people clamping down harder on the perpetuation of the idea that they're platonic friends and nothing more? It's a wild time full of conflicting emotions but the flood of content is buffering the journey quite well. Mostly.

ragemas
For real, calling it gaymas/gaymingmas is really rubbing me in all of the wrong ways. I don’t care how jokingly or affectionately you think you’re doing it, it just stands out as being fucked up. This is supposedly (and has been in the past, for the most part..) a supportive and accepting group of posters. And maybe that in itself has given people a sense of having a ‘pass’ with remarks that, to outsiders, could come off as offensive or cruel. And I understand that on a scale of things to be offended by, allegedly self-awarely calling a festive project D&P are doing ‘gaymas’ would be at the bottom for most, if it would even make the list at all.
If someone just showed up and posted here labelling one or both of them gay, everybody would flip out and whip out their sexuality tallies and basic human empathy and write a dissertation about respecting people’s labels for themselves or lack of labels or whatever. But suddenly it’s hilarious to casually call their month long project gay. I don’t understand the disconnect. I don’t care what the intent is, I don’t care how you’re rationalizing it to yourselves (“Well, I don’t mean it like that, I’m not like those other kinds of people who say it meaning it like that (like the fucking 4chan example on just the previous page), I’m joking").

“It’s just a joke brah lighten up” is the most infuriating response to an expression of discomfort about something that could be taken many ways. Oh I can’t take a joke, well fuck me then. It’s almost hilarious how hostile and alienating I find this thing that isn’t even registering to anybody. It just strikes me as casual cruelty every time I see it.

Cruelty. And it's kind of clarifying a big part of what bugged the fuck out of me about busgate. Busgate was cruel. How is it anything else? Nitpicking and probing and laughing about how you know better all over something done ostensibly to avoid a specific kind of scrutiny. Where they’re sleeping and who they’re sleeping with. Nobody’s business. Yet people feel entitled to it because they think they know The Truth™ and want to confirm-- for what? To sate your own curiosity at the expense of somebody else’s clearly set boundaries. Like sure, call up bus companies, drool over floorplans, but none of those things will actually tell you definitively anything at all. It won't get you a sex tape or something tangible that you can point at and say "Aha! I knew it!" as if the truth of their private lives is something to be caught and held up like a trophy for retweets.

Like wtf:

Agreed, its a play on words that they knew gamesmas, the obvious name, sounded too much like gaymas, so they had to awkwardly add on that ing making it sound really un-natural. To me its a joke about how self aware they are, not OMG THEY ARE GAY

Yep, if they're gonna jump through hoops to avoid gamemas/gaymas, I'm gonna mercilessly use that exact phrase as a joke because reasons.

I’m not seeing how it’s just a joke about their self-awareness.
“What I think they probably should have named it and assumed they considered naming it but then changed their minds because it could possibly sound like gaymas is what I’m going to call it for the lols”

The only reason coming to me is cruelty 'bc lol'. It’s mocking. Mocking rooted in a sexuality label. Like where’s the joke beyond gay apparently being a funny word. And by your admission at least, the joke doesn’t appear to be ‘this is what it could have sounded like so I’m just going to call it that something something self-awareness’, it’s “this is what I assume they wanted to avoid it sounding like so I’m going to mercilessly call it that based on my own assumptions.”

So it’s funny that something (you assume) they wanted to avoid is what you want to double down on. And why would you think they would want to avoid it? Because of ‘gay’? Would they want to avoid that because of the leaps and reaching people would make and do to link a sexuality identifier to what they’ve chosen to name their project? And the humour then is to casually use a term you assume they wanted to avoid because it potentially draws attention or brings to mind sexualities (specifically questions of their own personal sexualities and labels, a topic they’ve clearly chosen to avoid as much as possible for the last 7 years?). I’m only getting mocking cruelty out of this, not humour.

Like is it just a groupthink thing happening here? “I see other people are saying it, so I’m going to say it too”? Is it really no more than just 'gaymas sounds funny' and you don't see any issue with attributing it to two people who don't identify as gay just doing something in their professional lives? I bring up discomfort over it and all I get is variations of ‘take a joke’. Other than that, nobody really answered and I can’t believe that everybody calling it this mindfully agrees with the one or two people who gave ‘actual’ answers about the thinking behind it that were at least slightly more thoughtful than linking to some shitty 90s music (next time joking about consent is brought up, I’ll just post some throwback Lauryn Hill in solidarity ). Like whatever, go ahead and never examine your own thoughts and words and their intended expression vs. reception by others. Roll your eyes and go along your merry way being ironic and reductive and know that I and I alone am wrong and invalid. I’m the problem and ruining your fun and nothing you say is offensive because you don’t mean it that way and/or it’s coming from a supposedly supportive or affectionate place. Or a 'merciless' place, if that’s what you’re into . Or maybe it’s just coming from a place of entitlement (“I’m of the community, they’re of the community, I can make jokes at their expense or the community’s expense because I’m part of it (or support it I guess, when it's not just ace joke-fodder)”) or maybe even just latent homophobia. I don’t know, I don’t know any of you or your motivations for anything you do. All I see is the result: your words.

And I find it all especially shitty around this flipping awesome time of D&P taking their walls down and being actual humans together for the world to see. Every video is somehow better than the last and it’s all great and then I come here and just want to strangle myself, and not in the kink sense. People think (if they’re thinking) they’re straddling some cute line between loving banter and jokes, but so often it’s landing outside the line into cruelty (wasn't that an issue with scrolling through the pinof tag? I'm sure all of those people were laughing at their genius hilarity too), which is whatever if you’re hate watching, but the ample use of trashcans would lead me to think otherwise. And sure, I don’t need to be upset for Dan and Phil, they’re grown men who can take it or ignore it, it’s nothing new, but I’m upset for myself being subjected to this thoughtless shit masquerading as Self Aware Joe King that’s really based in outing, which I thought wasn’t cool ‘round these parts. Oh I’m sorry, I guess it’s just Ironic Outing because we all think we’re in the know and can joke freely about their private lives, and it’s all cool because we think they’re cool. Or bad liars. Or good liars that --bait. But we’re in on the joke whatever the case, and so anything goes, right? It’s just a game we’re all playing with them.

It all gets very tiring and antagonistic. Try not to cut anyone with all that edge.

[lilMango]

I don't have time to do timestamps tonight but I definitely heard "our life" and I'm living for lowkey furry phan.

Also I am repeating myself from a few days ago, but damn - I love this month. And I love them this month.

I still genuinely don't think that we're only getting videos every day because Dan and Phil want to game an algorithm. I think neither of them are people who can be motivated to do something this big of a commitment with money as the sole motivator. It's hard for me to even imagine how people see them as strictly monetarily motivated. I am hesitant to give any single reason why they're doing this, I still think it was a combination of reasons all coming together - renewed enthusiasm for youtube itself now that they have time to concentrate on it, a desire to acclimatize their audience to a Dan and Phil who are more flirty and affectionate in one big push, and of course the fact that December is the most advantageous time to be trying this.

But basically no matter the reason, I'm grateful the stars aligned and we get this and they seem so into it and each other.

I agree! They certainly don't need to be doing all of these videos for financial/business reasons. I'm mostly just happy that they seem to genuinely love making these videos every day. It feels comfortable. I just hope they don't feel obligated to do this every year.

[Philena]

I still genuinely don't think that we're only getting videos every day because Dan and Phil want to game an algorithm. I think neither of them are people who can be motivated to do something this big of a commitment with money as the sole motivator. It's hard for me to even imagine how people see them as strictly monetarily motivated. I am hesitant to give any single reason why they're doing this, I still think it was a combination of reasons all coming together - renewed enthusiasm for youtube itself now that they have time to concentrate on it, a desire to acclimatize their audience to a Dan and Phil who are more flirty and affectionate in one big push, and of course the fact that December is the most advantageous time to be trying this.

But basically no matter the reason, I'm grateful the stars aligned and we get this and they seem so into it and each other.

Agreed with all of this so hard. I was watching today's video and when it got to the lean in moment, my brain almost melted. How can anybody look at Phil in that moment and not see somebody pulling back from an expected kiss (and not in a bad way, just a 'we're filming, not right now' kind of way-- his little glance to see what Dan was going for, realizing it wasn't a kiss and continuing the bants), I feel like there is something very intentional going on. Beyond just intentionally loosening up and letting the chips fall where they may re: viewer/? perceptions etc. Every video. Every one. I don't even know what it means, but my immediate thought after this video was 'they're on a timeline', they're building to something. NOT A COMING OUT, but something on the horizon they're both aware of. I don't know, there's just something bigger picture happening behind the scenes that we're not aware of yet..? and it's exciting and wonderful and a little scary. I'm just so happy? Mixed with the ever-present frustration at certain people clamping down harder on the perpetuation of the idea that they're platonic friends and nothing more? It's a wild time full of conflicting emotions but the flood of content is buffering the journey quite well. Mostly.

ragemas
For real, calling it gaymas/gaymingmas is really rubbing me in all of the wrong ways. I don’t care how jokingly or affectionately you think you’re doing it, it just stands out as being fucked up. This is supposedly (and has been in the past, for the most part..) a supportive and accepting group of posters. And maybe that in itself has given people a sense of having a ‘pass’ with remarks that, to outsiders, could come off as offensive or cruel. And I understand that on a scale of things to be offended by, allegedly self-awarely calling a festive project D&P are doing ‘gaymas’ would be at the bottom for most, if it would even make the list at all.
If someone just showed up and posted here labelling one or both of them gay, everybody would flip out and whip out their sexuality tallies and basic human empathy and write a dissertation about respecting people’s labels for themselves or lack of labels or whatever. But suddenly it’s hilarious to casually call their month long project gay. I don’t understand the disconnect. I don’t care what the intent is, I don’t care how you’re rationalizing it to yourselves (“Well, I don’t mean it like that, I’m not like those other kinds of people who say it meaning it like that (like the fucking 4chan example on just the previous page), I’m joking").

“It’s just a joke brah lighten up” is the most infuriating response to an expression of discomfort about something that could be taken many ways. Oh I can’t take a joke, well fuck me then. It’s almost hilarious how hostile and alienating I find this thing that isn’t even registering to anybody. It just strikes me as casual cruelty every time I see it.

Cruelty. And it's kind of clarifying a big part of what bugged the fuck out of me about busgate. Busgate was cruel. How is it anything else? Nitpicking and probing and laughing about how you know better all over something done ostensibly to avoid a specific kind of scrutiny. Where they’re sleeping and who they’re sleeping with. Nobody’s business. Yet people feel entitled to it because they think they know The Truth™ and want to confirm-- for what? To sate your own curiosity at the expense of somebody else’s clearly set boundaries. Like sure, call up bus companies, drool over floorplans, but none of those things will actually tell you definitively anything at all. It won't get you a sex tape or something tangible that you can point at and say "Aha! I knew it!" as if the truth of their private lives is something to be caught and held up like a trophy for retweets.

Like wtf:

Agreed, its a play on words that they knew gamesmas, the obvious name, sounded too much like gaymas, so they had to awkwardly add on that ing making it sound really un-natural. To me its a joke about how self aware they are, not OMG THEY ARE GAY

Yep, if they're gonna jump through hoops to avoid gamemas/gaymas, I'm gonna mercilessly use that exact phrase as a joke because reasons.

I’m not seeing how it’s just a joke about their self-awareness.
“What I think they probably should have named it and assumed they considered naming it but then changed their minds because it could possibly sound like gaymas is what I’m going to call it for the lols”

The only reason coming to me is cruelty 'bc lol'. It’s mocking. Mocking rooted in a sexuality label. Like where’s the joke beyond gay apparently being a funny word. And by your admission at least, the joke doesn’t appear to be ‘this is what it could have sounded like so I’m just going to call it that something something self-awareness’, it’s “this is what I assume they wanted to avoid it sounding like so I’m going to mercilessly call it that based on my own assumptions.”

So it’s funny that something (you assume) they wanted to avoid is what you want to double down on. And why would you think they would want to avoid it? Because of ‘gay’? Would they want to avoid that because of the leaps and reaching people would make and do to link a sexuality identifier to what they’ve chosen to name their project? And the humour then is to casually use a term you assume they wanted to avoid because it potentially draws attention or brings to mind sexualities (specifically questions of their own personal sexualities and labels, a topic they’ve clearly chosen to avoid as much as possible for the last 7 years?). I’m only getting mocking cruelty out of this, not humour.

Like is it just a groupthink thing happening here? “I see other people are saying it, so I’m going to say it too”? Is it really no more than just 'gaymas sounds funny' and you don't see any issue with attributing it to two people who don't identify as gay just doing something in their professional lives? I bring up discomfort over it and all I get is variations of ‘take a joke’. Other than that, nobody really answered and I can’t believe that everybody calling it this mindfully agrees with the one or two people who gave ‘actual’ answers about the thinking behind it that were at least slightly more thoughtful than linking to some shitty 90s music (next time joking about consent is brought up, I’ll just post some throwback Lauryn Hill in solidarity ). Like whatever, go ahead and never examine your own thoughts and words and their intended expression vs. reception by others. Roll your eyes and go along your merry way being ironic and reductive and know that I and I alone am wrong and invalid. I’m the problem and ruining your fun and nothing you say is offensive because you don’t mean it that way and/or it’s coming from a supposedly supportive or affectionate place. Or a 'merciless' place, if that’s what you’re into . Or maybe it’s just coming from a place of entitlement (“I’m of the community, they’re of the community, I can make jokes at their expense or the community’s expense because I’m part of it (or support it I guess, when it's not just ace joke-fodder)”) or maybe even just latent homophobia. I don’t know, I don’t know any of you or your motivations for anything you do. All I see is the result: your words.

And I find it all especially shitty around this flipping awesome time of D&P taking their walls down and being actual humans together for the world to see. Every video is somehow better than the last and it’s all great and then I come here and just want to strangle myself, and not in the kink sense. People think (if they’re thinking) they’re straddling some cute line between loving banter and jokes, but so often it’s landing outside the line into cruelty (wasn't that an issue with scrolling through the pinof tag? I'm sure all of those people were laughing at their genius hilarity too), which is whatever if you’re hate watching, but the ample use of trashcans would lead me to think otherwise. And sure, I don’t need to be upset for Dan and Phil, they’re grown men who can take it or ignore it, it’s nothing new, but I’m upset for myself being subjected to this thoughtless shit masquerading as Self Aware Joe King that’s really based in outing, which I thought wasn’t cool ‘round these parts. Oh I’m sorry, I guess it’s just Ironic Outing because we all think we’re in the know and can joke freely about their private lives, and it’s all cool because we think they’re cool. Or bad liars. Or good liars that --bait. But we’re in on the joke whatever the case, and so anything goes, right? It’s just a game we’re all playing with them.

It all gets very tiring and antagonistic. Try not to cut anyone with all that edge.

I see your point. Sometimes jokes can start to perpetuate due to groupthink, and no one bats an eyelash or even thinks about possible repercussions or the true meaning of the words until someone else comes along who is actually offended and has the guts to explain why. I certainly didn't think twice until reading your post. That being said, I still don't understand getting so upset about other posters having negative or blasé replies to your previous post, which was seemingly off-handed with no real substance other than annoyance. It's much easier for me to consider making changes in my behavior when I'm approached by someone who explains the situation in a clear, logical, and respectful way, Iike you attempted this evening.

[captainspacecoat]

fancybum, your post was really interesting and made me think about the whole 'gaymas' thing. While I completely understand your point, I'm not sure I really agree with it. I personally haven't referred to gaming-mas as gaymas but I'm not offended by it. I don't see it as people labelling them as gay - if that was the case, I would probably be offended. I think it's just 1. a play on words that acknowledges that game-mas would have probs sounded more succinct and 2. acknowledges their newfound closeness and comfortableness (not a word?).

In my experience (disclaimer: I identify as bi), the word 'gay' is often used in certain contexts by people who don't identify as gay but are otherwise non-straight, e.g. if I saw a picture of a pretty girl on tumblr I might say "omg i'm so gay" even though I'm actually bi, just because it's easier etc, and I think that's pretty common in many online circles.

I feel like people on here saying 'gaymas' is along those lines, and I assume that most people using the term on here identify as LGB+, thus I really can't see a problem with it. Do I think people should refer to it as 'gaymas' to actual dnp? Probably not. I definitely don't want them to feel insecure about their change in behaviour or backtrack or anything like that. Anyway, having said all that, I totally get why it makes you uncomfortable and you're absolutely entitled to feel that way

[hmm]

ragemas
For real, calling it gaymas/gaymingmas is really rubbing me in all of the wrong ways.
...
If someone just showed up and posted here labelling one or both of them gay, everybody would flip out and whip out their sexuality tallies and basic human empathy and write a dissertation about respecting people’s labels for themselves or lack of labels or whatever. But suddenly it’s hilarious to casually call their month long project gay.

agree
not to attack those who have called it gaymas bc im already dying at this level of confrontation, but to me personally it sounds off
i feel like its because a lot of members here are lgbt/are fully supportive of the lgbt community, we forget that something sounds bad because we know that we (individually) are not homophobic
brainstorm for a new name?

[secretagentphan]

Okay I can't even handle phan anymore WHY CAN'T THEY LET ME LIVE MY LIFE.
Also even though I should've expected it from 4chan those comments about Dan were yikes...

also is there anyway anyone can link me to the voldy vid? Even the link to the guru gossip Google docs thing would be fine. I've been feeling kind of anti phan lately for no reason so I feel like I need to remind myself lol

[lilMango]

ragemas
For real, calling it gaymas/gaymingmas is really rubbing me in all of the wrong ways.
...
If someone just showed up and posted here labelling one or both of them gay, everybody would flip out and whip out their sexuality tallies and basic human empathy and write a dissertation about respecting people’s labels for themselves or lack of labels or whatever. But suddenly it’s hilarious to casually call their month long project gay.

agree
not to attack those who have called it gaymas bc im already dying at this level of confrontation, but to me personally it sounds off
i feel like its because a lot of members here are lgbt/are fully supportive of the lgbt community, we forget that something sounds bad because we know that we (individually) are not homophobic
brainstorm for a new name?

I agree with the part I bolded. I personally haven't called it gaymas because I've felt uncomfortable about calling it that, but I know that it's been called that as a lighthearted joke with no negative intention, for the reason you've said.

[chloek88]

fancybum i feel like i'm always silently nodding and agreeing with you from behind my screen, but since you put so much thought and effort into that post, i'll step out of the woodwork this time and just say yes and thank you. i'm relieved that you did take the time to call people out on the hypocrisy of calling it gaymas but being otherwise anti-label, anti-outing, #woke...and it 100% is the same hypocrisy of going through PAINSTAKING effort of trying to expose d&p's bed situation w/ busgate, aggrandizing that months-long invasion of privacy to this day (i cringe whenever i see busgate lauded as some kind of hallmark of this forum. i want to think idb's better than that), but then when someone on twitter requests d&p kiss in the pinof hashtag, oH nOo they're monsters putting pressure on the boys and trying to force-out them.
is the difference just whether they're directly tagged in something or not? i feel like the phandom's pretty interconnected, nothing really stays in just one corner of it, and most things get back to the boys.

calling it gaymas does just seem mean and immature. and i don't think you're all mean, immature, unempathetic people. as far as i can tell, most people on here are extremely sympathetic to lgbtq+ individuals or identify as such, and we all seem to care very much about dan and phil.

[secretagentphan]

ragemas
For real, calling it gaymas/gaymingmas is really rubbing me in all of the wrong ways.
...
If someone just showed up and posted here labelling one or both of them gay, everybody would flip out and whip out their sexuality tallies and basic human empathy and write a dissertation about respecting people’s labels for themselves or lack of labels or whatever. But suddenly it’s hilarious to casually call their month long project gay.

agree
not to attack those who have called it gaymas bc im already dying at this level of confrontation, but to me personally it sounds off
i feel like its because a lot of members here are lgbt/are fully supportive of the lgbt community, we forget that something sounds bad because we know that we (individually) are not homophobic
brainstorm for a new name?

I agree with the part I bolded. I personally haven't called it gaymas because I've felt uncomfortable about calling it that, but I know that it's been called that as a lighthearted joke with no negative intention, for the reason you've said.

I also have not called it "gaymas" and i wasn't personally offended but I can see how it could be a problem. As someone who is Bisexual and went through a lot of denial before realizing it, being called "gay" or people assuming that if a bi person dates the same sex they are suddenly gay, it can get upsetting. This is lighthearted though and NOTHING compared to what I see in the "phan" tags on tumblr so I don't think it's necessarily a big deal for the people on here calling it that. I do see the problem though and since others seem to have the same issues as me we should probably refrain from using it. I love you all though, no judgement!

[DeadlyNova]

I don't have much to add to the current discussion, other than saying the fact that I didn't think too much of 'gaymas' until reading fancybum's post. I agree with all of it and I can definitely see why it would be offensive.


That being said, I do want to say my opinion on the new videos! I haven't said much about the last few, but I really loved the slender video yesterday and the akinator one today. The original akinator video is actually one of my favorites on the gaming channel, so....

Also, Phil in glasses is literally my favorite thing ever so I feel so #blessed right now.

[eevee]

@fancybum

I understand that this is something you really care about, and something that's really bothered you. I'm not going to criticize you for that. I would hate to be criticized for what triggers me...and I know you tried to do that, and I'm not the only one you dragged in your post, but I'm not going to fight fire with fire. So this is what I'm going to say:

This is a gossip forum. We are dedicated to speculation about two youtube personalities who chose this career path. There are rules in place to protect their privacy, such as discussing specific location. If the rules are not comprehensive enough for your comfort level, you are free to move to a different platform.

I'm not just saying this because you're uncomfortable with one term that we coined, you're uncomfortable with one of the main topics of discussion that's been going on for months. And the reason you're uncomfortable is because you feel the speculation, the gossip, the entitlement is going too far.

And that's a valid way to feel. We all have different comfort levels here, which is made especially visible when we discuss family. Some people choose not to participate in those conversations because they feel such speculation is inappropriate.

They don't, however, indirect many, many people on this forum in a passive-aggressive way. They don't rag on everything this forum was basically made for. I realize it's on the grounds of respect, but like I said, that's why we have rules here. When you sign up for the forum, you agree to the rules, which are lines drawn for you.

I'm sorry you're uncomfortable with this forum, I'm sorry we've driven you to feel this way, but no one here deserves to be attacked like this.

[Laney]

ragemas
For real, calling it gaymas/gaymingmas is really rubbing me in all of the wrong ways.
...
If someone just showed up and posted here labelling one or both of them gay, everybody would flip out and whip out their sexuality tallies and basic human empathy and write a dissertation about respecting people’s labels for themselves or lack of labels or whatever. But suddenly it’s hilarious to casually call their month long project gay.

agree
not to attack those who have called it gaymas bc im already dying at this level of confrontation, but to me personally it sounds off
i feel like its because a lot of members here are lgbt/are fully supportive of the lgbt community, we forget that something sounds bad because we know that we (individually) are not homophobic
brainstorm for a new name?

I agree with the part I bolded. I personally haven't called it gaymas because I've felt uncomfortable about calling it that, but I know that it's been called that as a lighthearted joke with no negative intention, for the reason you've said.

I also have not called it "gaymas" and i wasn't personally offended but I can see how it could be a problem. As someone who is Bisexual and went through a lot of denial before realizing it, being called "gay" or people assuming that if a bi person dates the same sex they are suddenly gay, it can get upsetting. This is lighthearted though and NOTHING compared to what I see in the "phan" tags on tumblr so I don't think it's necessarily a big deal for the people on here calling it that. I do see the problem though and since others seem to have the same issues as me we should probably refrain from using it. I love you all though, no judgement!

I hadn't seen the problem with calling it "gaymas" before. However, after reading everyone's very well thought out opinions, I am starting to see the problem with it, and will not be using the term anymore. I don't suddenly think it's an horrible and offensive thing, but it now just feels slightly wrong and hypocritical of me to use it. Sexuality is a very personal thing, and what helped me put this into perspective was the fact that I would be uncomfortable and annoyed if someone decided to put a label on my sexuality for me, even if just as a joke.

I just wanted to make a note of how much I appreciate the fact that we can have civil discussions on here, so thank you everyone for being so polite!

[alittledizzy]

In completely unrelated news, Phil liked this on twitter:

(Wonder if it made him think of Dan presenting.)

[anathema]

ragemas

For real, calling it gaymas/gaymingmas is really rubbing me in all of the wrong ways. I don’t care how jokingly or affectionately you think you’re doing it, it just stands out as being fucked up. This is supposedly (and has been in the past, for the most part..) a supportive and accepting group of posters. And maybe that in itself has given people a sense of having a ‘pass’ with remarks that, to outsiders, could come off as offensive or cruel. And I understand that on a scale of things to be offended by, allegedly self-awarely calling a festive project D&P are doing ‘gaymas’ would be at the bottom for most, if it would even make the list at all.
If someone just showed up and posted here labelling one or both of them gay, everybody would flip out and whip out their sexuality tallies and basic human empathy and write a dissertation about respecting people’s labels for themselves or lack of labels or whatever. But suddenly it’s hilarious to casually call their month long project gay. I don’t understand the disconnect. I don’t care what the intent is, I don’t care how you’re rationalizing it to yourselves (“Well, I don’t mean it like that, I’m not like those other kinds of people who say it meaning it like that (like the fucking 4chan example on just the previous page), I’m joking").

“It’s just a joke brah lighten up” is the most infuriating response to an expression of discomfort about something that could be taken many ways. Oh I can’t take a joke, well fuck me then. It’s almost hilarious how hostile and alienating I find this thing that isn’t even registering to anybody. It just strikes me as casual cruelty every time I see it.

Cruelty. And it's kind of clarifying a big part of what bugged the fuck out of me about busgate. Busgate was cruel. How is it anything else? Nitpicking and probing and laughing about how you know better all over something done ostensibly to avoid a specific kind of scrutiny. Where they’re sleeping and who they’re sleeping with. Nobody’s business. Yet people feel entitled to it because they think they know The Truth™ and want to confirm-- for what? To sate your own curiosity at the expense of somebody else’s clearly set boundaries. Like sure, call up bus companies, drool over floorplans, but none of those things will actually tell you definitively anything at all. It won't get you a sex tape or something tangible that you can point at and say "Aha! I knew it!" as if the truth of their private lives is something to be caught and held up like a trophy for retweets.

Like wtf:

Agreed, its a play on words that they knew gamesmas, the obvious name, sounded too much like gaymas, so they had to awkwardly add on that ing making it sound really un-natural. To me its a joke about how self aware they are, not OMG THEY ARE GAY

Yep, if they're gonna jump through hoops to avoid gamemas/gaymas, I'm gonna mercilessly use that exact phrase as a joke because reasons.

I’m not seeing how it’s just a joke about their self-awareness.
“What I think they probably should have named it and assumed they considered naming it but then changed their minds because it could possibly sound like gaymas is what I’m going to call it for the lols”

The only reason coming to me is cruelty 'bc lol'. It’s mocking. Mocking rooted in a sexuality label. Like where’s the joke beyond gay apparently being a funny word. And by your admission at least, the joke doesn’t appear to be ‘this is what it could have sounded like so I’m just going to call it that something something self-awareness’, it’s “this is what I assume they wanted to avoid it sounding like so I’m going to mercilessly call it that based on my own assumptions.”

So it’s funny that something (you assume) they wanted to avoid is what you want to double down on. And why would you think they would want to avoid it? Because of ‘gay’? Would they want to avoid that because of the leaps and reaching people would make and do to link a sexuality identifier to what they’ve chosen to name their project? And the humour then is to casually use a term you assume they wanted to avoid because it potentially draws attention or brings to mind sexualities (specifically questions of their own personal sexualities and labels, a topic they’ve clearly chosen to avoid as much as possible for the last 7 years?). I’m only getting mocking cruelty out of this, not humour.

Like is it just a groupthink thing happening here? “I see other people are saying it, so I’m going to say it too”? Is it really no more than just 'gaymas sounds funny' and you don't see any issue with attributing it to two people who don't identify as gay just doing something in their professional lives? I bring up discomfort over it and all I get is variations of ‘take a joke’. Other than that, nobody really answered and I can’t believe that everybody calling it this mindfully agrees with the one or two people who gave ‘actual’ answers about the thinking behind it that were at least slightly more thoughtful than linking to some shitty 90s music (next time joking about consent is brought up, I’ll just post some throwback Lauryn Hill in solidarity ). Like whatever, go ahead and never examine your own thoughts and words and their intended expression vs. reception by others. Roll your eyes and go along your merry way being ironic and reductive and know that I and I alone am wrong and invalid. I’m the problem and ruining your fun and nothing you say is offensive because you don’t mean it that way and/or it’s coming from a supposedly supportive or affectionate place. Or a 'merciless' place, if that’s what you’re into . Or maybe it’s just coming from a place of entitlement (“I’m of the community, they’re of the community, I can make jokes at their expense or the community’s expense because I’m part of it (or support it I guess, when it's not just ace joke-fodder)”) or maybe even just latent homophobia. I don’t know, I don’t know any of you or your motivations for anything you do. All I see is the result: your words.

And I find it all especially shitty around this flipping awesome time of D&P taking their walls down and being actual humans together for the world to see. Every video is somehow better than the last and it’s all great and then I come here and just want to strangle myself, and not in the kink sense. People think (if they’re thinking) they’re straddling some cute line between loving banter and jokes, but so often it’s landing outside the line into cruelty (wasn't that an issue with scrolling through the pinof tag? I'm sure all of those people were laughing at their genius hilarity too), which is whatever if you’re hate watching, but the ample use of trashcans would lead me to think otherwise. And sure, I don’t need to be upset for Dan and Phil, they’re grown men who can take it or ignore it, it’s nothing new, but I’m upset for myself being subjected to this thoughtless shit masquerading as Self Aware Joe King that’s really based in outing, which I thought wasn’t cool ‘round these parts. Oh I’m sorry, I guess it’s just Ironic Outing because we all think we’re in the know and can joke freely about their private lives, and it’s all cool because we think they’re cool. Or bad liars. Or good liars that --bait. But we’re in on the joke whatever the case, and so anything goes, right? It’s just a game we’re all playing with them.

It all gets very tiring and antagonistic. Try not to cut anyone with all that edge.

First of all, props to you for saying all of this. While I agree with a lot of what you said, I feel like you maybe be taking this slightly too seriously (for lack of a better word). While, yes, no one should be calling Dan and Phil "gay", calling gamingmas "gaymas" has no malicious intent behind it. And, I don't know, maybe you're right and no one should dismiss it, but for me "gaymas" is just a lighthearted play on words. That's it. And while I think it's perfectly fine to discuss whether or not it's alright to joke about said play on words, I feel like you were almost questioning the integrity behind people calling it that. And I think it's fair to assume that no one meant anything bad by it, so
(And like, I haven't been calling it "gaymas" because I think it's unnecessary. But if people want to call it that, whatever, as long as they mean it as a play on "gamemas" which I think they do.)

In completely unrelated news, Phil liked this on twitter:

(Wonder if it made him think of Dan presenting.)

Speaking of Phil's twitter, his follower count finally surpassed his subscriber count.

[majitzu]

In completely unrelated news, Phil liked this on twitter:

(Wonder if it made him think of Dan presenting.)

I was laughing so much and was a bit confused earlier when i first saw it, and then i realize the fingers were drew with pen. It doesn't look like mittens anymore

[lappelduvide]

That cup is amazing...I cannot believe the graphic designers/marketers don't do this on purpose.
EDIT: Only looked quickly, and just realised the hands on the cup are drawn on. Still questionable either way.

Another thing to add to the Dan kink proof list (side note can we like start a list of these somewhere) is, well really that entire NHIE video with Tyler Oakley, but especially his reaction to the shocking/massaging device.
Also the casual BDSM reference at the end. The of me is conviced that 'cherry' is their safeword, and without being too obvious Dan quickly tried to think of a new one and only went as far as 'banana'...Try harder Dan..should've been 'Haru' or something

[trashqueen]

fancybum, you are allowed to express your frustration with us calling it gaymas or with busgate (even though it's been months lmao why do you continue to bring it up)

i'm allowed to continue to call it that way because I don't see calling something gay as an insult in any way and to me it's just a joke about the fact that they went out of their way to not name it gamemas, and my opinion is as valid as yours, especially bc i'm also lgbt+

i also think context is important and that a poster that's been around for months/years makes a joke about their sexualities (even though it's not about their sexualities at all? and gay can be used as an umbrella term anyway??) is not the same as a newcomer showing up throwing claims left and right and/or being rude

i don't wanna go over busgate or 'stalking' because we've been over this a hundred times but again, if it makes you uncomfortable then i'm sorry but I'm not gonna stop because to me it's just fun, the forum has rules and mods that make sure everything that gets posted doesn't go pass a certain point of invasive, busgate didn't, so suck it up and stop whining about something you have no control over, there are also things people post about that annoy me, that doesn't mean i can't grasp the concept that i can't control what everyone else does or that my moral compass is somehow superior

again this is just my opinion, but as you posted yours in such a uuuh... passionate.... way i thought i would do the same

[fancybum]

@fancybum
This is a gossip forum. We are dedicated to speculation about two youtube personalities who chose this career path. There are rules in place to protect their privacy, such as discussing specific location. If the rules are not comprehensive enough for your comfort level, you are free to move to a different platform.

I'm not just saying this because you're uncomfortable with one term that we coined, you're uncomfortable with one of the main topics of discussion that's been going on for months. And the reason you're uncomfortable is because you feel the speculation, the gossip, the entitlement is going too far.

And that's a valid way to feel. We all have different comfort levels here, which is made especially visible when we discuss family. Some people choose not to participate in those conversations because they feel such speculation is inappropriate.

They don't, however, indirect many, many people on this forum in a passive-aggressive way. They don't rag on everything this forum was basically made for. I realize it's on the grounds of respect, but like I said, that's why we have rules here. When you sign up for the forum, you agree to the rules, which are lines drawn for you.

I'm sorry you're uncomfortable with this forum, I'm sorry we've driven you to feel this way, but no one here deserves to be attacked like this.

I don't think it's against the rules to question how far people take something, so I think I'll stay thanks, I'm clear on the rules. And ever since busgate, when a poster said, paraphrasing as it was a while ago, "nobody spoke out against it and therefore everybody on this forum was supportive of it," which isn't how things work, but kind of indicated that unless you stated 'hey i'm not cool with it' you're dragged in with the groupthink. Nah m8. This isn't gg, that's a gossip forum where assholishness is encouraged, that wasn't the intent behind this place when it got started. It's to discuss D&P, and if people don't all agree with how that's being done, that can also be discussed. Should everybody who wasn't down with busgate, then or now, find a different platform? The people who were uncomfortable with discussion over the banking information, should they find a different platform? The rules don't state everybody needs to have the same comfort level with every possible discussion and shut up if they differ. What kind of forum would that be.

Call whatever you want whatever you want, I don't have ball gags to pass out, I'm just saying 'I don't agree with x', and I appreciate everyone who responded to that with thoughtful responses, both for and against. Like secretagentphan (love your name) and captainspacecoat etc, with the assumption people didn't mean it negatively or in more than just a silly way. That's an assumption I wasn't comfortable making for everybody using the term. And I guess my issue with it is: we're not D&Ps friends so it's not fully comparable to saying about yourself or close friends 'that's really gay of you' or that kind of thing in similar contexts. I don't feel we have that liberty, that's not a door they've opened; in fact it seems like a door they very emphatically slammed shut awhile ago. And chloek88, thank you for your post. Times like these I wish the thumbs option still existed so I could feel less like the whiny fun-ruiner banging on the windows of a house I'm not welcome in looool. But anyways, whatever. I've said my piece, I'll shut up about it. It'll be over in a few weeks anyway, I'll just focus on the good. And eevee I'll just foe you so we never need to interact again and I invite you to do the same.

[MoonPride]

I really don't think that they are acting out all this touching each other stuff for baiting, there is no point. They have a huge following who would watch their videos regardless. Heck I'd even watch a video of them watching paint dry lol.

It seems Phil had gamingmas on his mind a few weeks before Dec and I really think it's because he wanted them to keep busy after the tour and maybe just maybe all the extra fondness is really them saying they are comfortable showing us a small side of their relationship that is more than just best friends. I think it's a lot easier then doing a whole coming out video which I think for them would put pressure on their relationship seeing how some of the phandom act.

Regarding Phil looking at the screen when Dan leaned into him staring, I wouldn't read that as all acting. Daily vloggers sometimes watch themselves in the view finder when filming, it doesn't mean they are trying to decieve the audience or anything. I think some people are so shocked about how close they have been acting they are trying to find anything that they can pick holes in that could maybe disprove phan actually being real and it's all just for views ans money.

Personally for me I am enjoying the content, yeah some of the games are cheesy but lets be real they never set this out to be a serious gaming channel.

It's early here and I haven't had much sleep so if I'm rambling and not making sense forgive me.

[eevee]

fancybum, you are allowed to express your frustration with us calling it gaymas or with busgate (even though it's been months lmao why do you continue to bring it up)

i'm allowed to continue to call it that way because I don't see calling something gay as an insult in any way and to me it's just a joke about the fact that they went out of their way to not name it gamemas, and my opinion is as valid as yours, especially bc i'm also lgbt+

i also think context is important and that a poster that's been around for months/years makes a joke about their sexualities (even though it's not about their sexualities at all? and gay can be used as an umbrella term anyway??) is not the same as a newcomer showing up throwing claims left and right and/or being rude

i don't wanna go over busgate or 'stalking' because we've been over this a hundred times but again, if it makes you uncomfortable then i'm sorry but I'm not gonna stop because to me it's just fun, the forum has rules and mods that make sure everything that gets posted doesn't go pass a certain point of invasive, busgate didn't, so suck it up and stop whining about something you have no control over, there are also things people post about that annoy me, that doesn't mean i can't grasp the concept that i can't control what everyone else does or that my moral compass is somehow superior

again this is just my opinion, but as you posted yours in such a uuuh... passionate.... way i thought i would do the same

I was gonna put this in a spoiler but it's all amazing so I'm not gonna hide it.

When it comes to fancybum's post it seems like there's no point in responding since they won't see it. Oh well, my point didn't seem to come across to them correctly anyway.

[danphil333]

me every single day since the boncas

also me

[human]

Regarding Phil looking at the screen when Dan leaned into him staring, I wouldn't read that as all acting. Daily vloggers sometimes watch themselves in the view finder when filming, it doesn't mean they are trying to decieve the audience or anything. I think some people are so shocked about how close they have been acting they are trying to find anything that they can pick holes in that could maybe disprove phan actually being real and it's all just for views ans money.

Phil's looking at the camera though, the monitor is to Dan's right so I think maybe he just didn't know Dan was staring at him like that lol. I enjoy the idea of Dan editing this when Phil wasn't there so when Phil probably saw the edit to check before it went live, if he even did, he was prolly like lol wtf were you doing.

Also #SaveDansLips. When will the lip balm be a thing. When. Boy needs to HYDRATE.