Dan & Phil Part 93: Fomosexual

[rizzo]

I'm gonna pretend Dan did collab with Tyler for the sake of this post, because literally - forgive my indelicacy here - but I literally don't understand why Dan's not allowed to collab with anyone but Phil first?!?!

Phil was pretty clear with DML2 and Dan with.. his general absence... that they want to focus on their personal relationship over their public-facing one. So, I think I'm just really struggling with this idea some have put out that it's "rude" of Dan not to collab with Phil first. Phil's about 50% of that decision. Them collabing in the PCOU would be strange. People would over-analyze (even more than before) every god-forsaken move and glance and laugh and action. Everything would be gif'd. They would have to think through their every move and they wouldn't be able to explore themselves in the world as an Out couple separate from themselves as an Out... entertainment duo. Like, I just think it's really clear why they're not collabing. To be clear: I don't like it. But I understand it.

So, Dan collabing with a Tyler (or an Anthony, or a Lilly, or ... literally anyone that isn't Phil) makes so much sense to me. It's an easy, task-oriented (probably) re-introduction for him back into youtube before he posts something on his channel that meets his "quality threshold" or whatever.

Like, if nothing else, a collab with someone separate from his life makes total sense.

IDK. Maybe I'm just a little extra frustrated here and I don't mean to be, because I defo respect everyone's emotions. But that's the thing. It's an US thing that we're sad he's not collabing with Phil. Not a THEM thing. It has only positive benefits for both Dan and Phil. Dan's not doing anything that isn't right for Dan. We're just mad that he's not sacrificing his sanity for us.

[Megancita75]

Good post rizzo. Honestly, every time I think about them appearing on camera together in a professional capacity, I just cringe thinking about the scrutiny it would receive and the picking apart of every glance, etc. I think only the passage of time will help with that.

It really does make me wonder why that sort of scrutiny doesn't seem to happen with Jenna/Julien, Safiya/Tyler, Shane/Ryland, etc., unless it does and I don't know about it.

[liola]

Who's saying that he isn't allowed? I personally just would be disappointed as the first reaction, then probably just watch the video. I'd go back to complain about lack of communication if it kept going on and that's all. Like all these things can co-exist.

I strongly disagree that their collab in the PCOU would be strange, it might be overanalyzed and extra talked about, but not JUST because it's post coming out, but because it would be the first in an entire year+! Because let's be honest, people talked about it before, people speculated before, people giffed before, there's analysis and gifs and reactions to the vday video to this day. They probably perceive that way, and I understand it, i respect it, but it still fucking sucks personally, i'm still sad over it, I can't help it, and I'm sure everyone else that would be sad over it also cannot help it. And i'm beating a dead horse here, but it also wouldn't feel as bad if Dan had interacted with us a little bit more in the past 12 months, or if they hadn't kept everything joint separated except for merch and now Vidcon Mexico because it's a re-do of II. You wanna be separated, be separated, but be coherent, otherwise people will complain (which they can ignore, it's their right)

This is a community forum, of course all of these things are an US thing, I don't understand why it seems to not be that way, or am I just dumb. Maybe I am.

[flarequake]

I only saw a few tweets and then let myself have a few seconds of ‘I wonder’ when I checked Tyler’s channel. I don’t know that he has to hype and tease people when they guess wrongly in so much anticipation, he could be less ‘ooh, maybe ‘ about it. I don’t mean to seriously drag him, he’s a nice enough guy and maybe it’s all in good fun, but a creator has some power and can turn the tide of things if they choose to. Granted, also if a fanbase listens, but I still wonder if they would if things were said enough the right way, idk.

I thought there was no chance that striped shirt was Dan’s, tbh it was just too ugly (excuse me dropping my filter a bit today, but let’s be honest).

Still a bit amazed Dan couldn’t tell us before disappearing last year if he didn’t want to alienate his audience, before then popping in and out without having given us that info, but drone on, change the record I had the worst year of my life in 2011 when similar things happened with friends and the feelings are the same, if anyone needs more reason why some of us still mind, btw.

Anyway, changing the subject, the monochrome fansite looks hella cute, very sweet project. I have bookmarked it, haven’t read the fic yet.

[glitterintheair]

They sure don’t mind to collab when they have to sell merch and make like 50 clips together on an iPhone, just saying.

[madzilla84]

If they were that concerned that their every look/glance/touch would be analysed (like those things aren’t already?!), they could, I don’t know, DO A PODCAST.

Sorry, ahem. I’ll get over it one day no I won’t.

(FWIW I don’t think that would be any more of a concern for them than it was before and has always been; I think it’s really just whether or not they *want* to make anything together some time, which I guess they just haven’t since 2018. Maybe they will one day, maybe they won’t. Obviously, I hope they do.)

[obsessivelymoody]

They sure don’t mind to collab when they have to sell merch and make like 50 clips together on an iPhone, just saying.

Are we forgetting that they are indeed running a business as well as being fun internet personalities? It hurts, I totally get that, but sometimes it's easier to, and excuse me for this, give the people what they want to sell stuff. And I don't think it's out of malice, no one has to spend their money on them. It's a good business tactic, and we know they like working together anyway. It would be nice to see them in the same capacity we got in pretty much every year before 2019 but things change, which is hard to swallow. But like I said in a post earlier, I think we can trust them not to want to alienate the core audience, or act out of malice.

[glitterintheair]

They sure don’t mind to collab when they have to sell merch and make like 50 clips together on an iPhone, just saying.

Are we forgetting that they are indeed running a business as well as being fun internet personalities? It hurts, I totally get that, but sometimes it's easier to, and excuse me for this, give the people what they want to sell stuff. And I don't think it's out of malice, no one has to spend their money on them. It's a good business tactic, and we know they like working together anyway. It would be nice to see them in the same capacity we got in pretty much every year before 2019 but things change, which is hard to swallow. But like I said in a post earlier, I think we can trust them not to want to alienate the core audience, or act out of malice.

I totally get that! I just find weird this concept that they don’t want to be seen together now because we would overanalyze things or because the joint brand is dead when they seem very okay with doing things together when they know they can profit off it.
I want to clarify I am not against that btw, it’s business and they are good at it, I just find it a bit hypocritical.

They might not want to alienate their core audience but a year has passed and we’re still here talking about the same issues we had back then. That must mean something, imo.

[Phanshy]

I don't think them appearing together on camera would be weird at all, would it be over analysed yes but since every tweet and Instagram post is deconstructed for hidden meaning or zoomed in to for any hidden info so it wouldn't be any different, the gaming videos were always over analysed Tumblr was usually full of heart eyes/ love eyes or innuendo gifs with 30 minutes of a video going up, it would be weird if any collaboration wasn't treated like that since that is a big part of the phandom. I know Dan needed a break to make BIG and I'm not criticising that at all but that would be the reason if the analysis was bigger than normal because of the lack of joint content, it would have settled down if they'd have continued to do videos together.

I was talking about this on Sunday to a family friend who's never even watched a YouTube video, so only knows about Dan and Phil because of my obsession and trying to explain why it's really hard not seeing them together in a photo or video for such a long time and a huge part of it to me is when I thought about them coming out I figured things would just carry on the same, I didn't expect they'd share more personal things about their relationship or do couple type videos or anything but I also didn't expect everything joint to end basically forever, I'm not saying they should have if they aren't comfortable doing it just that I didn't expect it to be like this which is on me not them.

I think comparing how Dan and Phil's relationship is analysed to most other YouTube couples is not fair since for most of the time they denied it and people were trying to prove it or just making shipping videos in the same way they would with other ships. With the three examples above people mostly only know the lesser known one because of their relationship with the more famous person, so there wasn't the are they aren't they thing because they were introduced as the partner.

[flarequake]

There can be consistency and integrity in business too if they meant it, but then we all want joint meetups so be careful what we wish for.

[Phanshy]

Sorry for the double post

I get them not wanting to work together so they don't feel like they're monetizing their relationship, but surely it's worse to only be seen together to sell us something than for them to make a video together like they have the whole time. They could just have a combined IRL shop for Christmas and not a joint branded one, they could have just offered separate personalised videos as a prize to anyone who bought one of their solo merch items they choose to do it jointly to capitalise on the Dan and Phil brand they're trying to distance themselves from. It's like we're not Dan and Phil unless we're selling something that leaves a bad taste in the mouth of some of us.

[flarequake]

This is what I mean about be careful what we wish for I guess, cos the thought of that isn’t such fun. I wouldn’t want to choose between them and in a way that feels more cynical. Obvs they had jumpers left and it was easy and made sense. Heh, idk. I still agree that it seemed off, though.

[flarequake]

Oop, Phil tweeted. No one can read the word ‘thing’ anymore.

[Amiaw]

Vidcon finally posted the mental health panel to its channel

[Megancita75]

I'm thinking about this Mexico City trip and I hope they get to explore the city some. I went there on vacation last year and loved it. It has some amazing architecture, museums, food, and green spaces. It is also an overwhelming city in terms of sheer population, but that's part of what gives it energy. In particular, the anthropology museum, the Frida Kahlo museum, and the public murals were very good, though I do wonder how easy it is for them to be tourists.

[Birdie]

To be clear: I don't like it. But I understand it.

Yeah, that's where I'm at too. Like I said a few days ago, they always had the "best friends" thing to hide behind. It was the official story and it let them be close and a bit intimate on camera without having to explain it too much or having to "admit" (horrible word choice, but I'm too tired to find a different one) that they're together. A lot of us didn't believe the best friends story but it was still there, between them and us, as some kind of buffer. That's gone now. Appearing in a video together would basically give us a real look into their personal dynamics now that they're not pretending they're just friends anymore. And I don't think they want us to see that. Like, at all. And I respect and understand that.

Dan practically said as much in BIG. He wants their relationship to be private. And I think (pure speculation as always) that maybe they haven't figured out how to keep their private relationship seperate from how they'd appear in a video together. Something along those lines, I'm half asleep, I hope this makes sense.

They sure don’t mind to collab when they have to sell merch and make like 50 clips together on an iPhone, just saying.

I think those were different. They were only a few seconds each and there wasn't much room for too many interactions that could be analysed or give too much away. A ten minute video is a different story. I agree with the sentiment of your post though, I just also think a short clip is different to a full-length video.

I ultimately think the reason why there are no collabs - with anyone - is that Dan is done with Youtube. I'd be happy to be proven wrong but I don't see him returning to the platform for good. He might do a long video project once a year or something, I'm not saying he won't upload ever again, but I don't think he's gonna be the kind of creator he was in the past.

[bevioletsky]

I wrote this earlier, and was going to add to it but then had to do something else and now it’s late. I think I’m slightly reiterating what other folks have said but fuck it, might as well:

I understand the whole thing about the potential difficulty in navigating their relationship and online presence together post coming out, and I expect that there’s some truth to it, but I also wonder if people sometimes overstate the point a little? Whatever interactions of them together we have got since June have seemed perfectly natural to me, whether we’re talking about their Vidcon meet-and-greet, or their holiday instastories (Nevada, Japan), or the shout-out videos before Christmas, or even Dan being in the glasses video in voice form. Sure, we’ve had a whole lot less of them together over the past year than ever before, and the lack of pictures of them together and such has felt deliberate sometimes, but it’s not like Dan has been super present otherwise either, and to me it seems like it has plenty to do with them currently working on separate things and just... not wanting to be that online? rather than it being just about them coming out. And idk, perhaps a whole yt video together would feel like a bigger step and different kind of exposure to them than casual instastories, but I wonder if that’d almost be more because of the audience-at-large and their perspective, considering how joint videos tend to get more views, and there surely would be some buzz over a ~comeback as it’s been so long since they did a video together. The fandom’s going to fandom and it’s always giffed and analysed the shit out of everything, so I’m not sure that I buy that as being too significant a reason.

I think the tl;dr version of the rest of the post I was going to write was something like: I think it would have been a strange move for Dan to do a video with Tyler and I did not expect it to happen at all (though one can never be Too sure because who knows what he’s up to ever); I don’t think it’s something he’s interested in doing – either anymore or at the very least currently (like, we know he could have filmed with Tom last year had he wanted to); although yes, admittedly I personally would have felt sad and weird about it. Then I had some vague thoughts about both my own empathy and frustrations, and the point obsessivelymoody made about trusting them/Dan to not do something that’d truly alienate their audience but who knows what they were anymore because again it’s late and I’m not even going to try.

[alittledizzy]

The fandom’s going to fandom and it’s always giffed and analysed the shit out of everything, so I’m not sure that I buy that as being too significant a reason.

I think there is a massive difference in that happening when they had plausible deniability and a glass closet to hide behind - when there was an understood sense of Dan and Phil aren't going to confirm anything we analyze or suspect - and in that happening in a world where Dan and Phil are confirmed out and together. It may not seem different from our end, because we knew, but from their end... I can imagine and do believe that it feels a lot more vulnerable now, particularly to Dan but really to both of them.

[Susanisnotafish]

Just jumping in with a little tip that if anyone has Dollar Tree stores near them and would like DAPGO, I got a copy for $1 there yesterday. I wanted the book since I only had the enhanced e-book. Wish there was a book to go with II.

[spaceguitar]

Have you guys seen all of the amazing art for the fanfiction Monochrome, including a whole website & game demo? I wasn't involved at all but I could cry just seeing the beautiful result.

[liola]

The fandom’s going to fandom and it’s always giffed and analysed the shit out of everything, so I’m not sure that I buy that as being too significant a reason.

I think there is a massive difference in that happening when they had plausible deniability and a glass closet to hide behind - when there was an understood sense of Dan and Phil aren't going to confirm anything we analyze or suspect - and in that happening in a world where Dan and Phil are confirmed out and together. It may not seem different from our end, because we knew, but from their end... I can imagine and do believe that it feels a lot more vulnerable now, particularly to Dan but really to both of them.

I don't really understand this point of view to be honest. Because yeah, it might feel more vulnerable to them, but at the same time a video (for example) has the reasoning of existing because it's work, because it's always been the case, they've always made videos together. I don't see how they'd think that would be too much to be analyzed and scrutinized when they shared an entire vacation to their favourite place, around a time that they know fandom take as very personal and romantic for them, and shared it without giving it any reasoning. Because their social media platforms are still part of their job, and arguably personal pictures of a personal trip feels way more vulnerable and couple-y than a video like thousands they've already done together in the past, where they can edit what they want to edit and have a structure to adhere to.

Again, this talking all in theory because it's obvious that right now Dan just doesn't want to be on youtube (and who knows when/if he will). I'm sure lots of things feel more vulnerable for them, but I also do strongly believe that they approached their relationship on screen, at least for the past couple of years, as pretty obvious to their fandom and most likely to the general public, because I think Dan's choice of word "obviously" was very pointed.

[glitterintheair]

I don't see how they'd think that would be too much to be analyzed and scrutinized when they shared an entire vacation to their favourite place, around a time that they know fandom take as very personal and romantic for them, and shared it without giving it any reasoning. Because their social media platforms are still part of their job, and arguably personal pictures of a personal trip feels way more vulnerable and couple-y than a video like thousands they've already done together in the past, where they can edit what they want to edit and have a structure to adhere to.

This. If they really, really wanted to be more private because they couldn’t handle people overanalyzing their relationship, would they have shared that much with us from their very much private vacation? For god’s sake, we all were saying ‘this is their 10th anniversary trip’ for all the length of that holiday and they posted something almost every day. They knew what we would think but they didn’t seem to care. So like I don’t buy this whole “it would be too much for them to be on screen together” because why would it be? Certainly no one expects them to kiss on camera or to call each other “my boyfriend” or something. Their dynamic is still the same, you could see it in the Glasses vid which was very appreciated by everyone because of how much natural they seemed to be.
I am just rambling at this point and I am not sure I explained myself like I wanted to, but long story short: I think the lack of joint vids is because Dan is not a YouTuber anymore and is done with the platform, not because of how people would react.

[madzilla84]

I pretty much agree - I don’t think them trying to figure out how they’d act on screen factors into it, I think at this point that’s pretty natural for them. (Everything at the end of 2018 was so lovely to watch, I was looking forward to seeing how it’d continue; oh well lol) I was encouraged by their (admittedly very few) public interactions last year, as they were still so *them* and nothing had really changed. I think if they ever work together again it’ll be mostly Same Old Dan and Phil relationship-wise, which I’m fine with. I think they just - don’t have anything they want to do together right now. *glum face*

I don’t think Dan has made a decision as absolute as being 100% done with Youtube forever, but he clearly doesn’t want to be a ‘youtuber’ any more (which has been the case for a while honestly). But I can see him posting the very occasional video if YouTube would be the best platform for it - despite its issues, he has a huge audience there and total creative control, which is going to be hard to find anywhere else. As for D&P working together again- eh, never say never; If they come up with an idea they like some time in a month/6 months/a year/5 years from now, they might.

[Birdie]

I think it's both. Mostly because Dan hasn't been completely off Youtube since BIG. He had a small part in Contra's video and he did that Shakespeare charity thing. Granted, he might have just done those because he likes those creators and didn't want to miss the chance to work with them or something, but he did appear in those things. I do think he's done with Youtube but I also think there are other reasons besides that why he's not really in Phil's videos or any other joint content anymore.

Basically, I don't think our different points of view really exclude each other and I personally think it's a bit of all of this. I can't imagine it not being overwhelming, being out as an lgbtq couple and having to figure out how to present that relationship in official video format without exploiting it or being too personal. I wouldn't discount that just because they have appeared in some smaller things together regardless but maybe you're right and we shouldn't read too much into it either.

But mostly I think Dan is done with that kind of content or Youtube in general. I mean, even before BIG we had him talking so much about his quality threshold and how easy, funny videos don't seem to meet it anymore. I think this plays a lot into why they became seperate creators as well. Dan's imagined content, like, the content he wants to make, is very different from Phil's content or what they did on dapg. But I'm just judging that based on BIG and the two collabs he chose to do last year. That's all we can go by right now anyways.

[stufflizloves]

The fandom’s going to fandom and it’s always giffed and analysed the shit out of everything, so I’m not sure that I buy that as being too significant a reason.

I think there is a massive difference in that happening when they had plausible deniability and a glass closet to hide behind - when there was an understood sense of Dan and Phil aren't going to confirm anything we analyze or suspect - and in that happening in a world where Dan and Phil are confirmed out and together. It may not seem different from our end, because we knew, but from their end... I can imagine and do believe that it feels a lot more vulnerable now, particularly to Dan but really to both of them.

I don't really understand this point of view to be honest. Because yeah, it might feel more vulnerable to them, but at the same time a video (for example) has the reasoning of existing because it's work, because it's always been the case, they've always made videos together. I don't see how they'd think that would be too much to be analyzed and scrutinized when they shared an entire vacation to their favourite place, around a time that they know fandom take as very personal and romantic for them, and shared it without giving it any reasoning. Because their social media platforms are still part of their job, and arguably personal pictures of a personal trip feels way more vulnerable and couple-y than a video like thousands they've already done together in the past, where they can edit what they want to edit and have a structure to adhere to.

i think the major difference between videos pre-BIG/COTY and what they shared of their trip to Japan is audience. videos posted to youtube get millions of sets of eyeballs on them—they get commented on sometimes by media who benefit from clicks about online creators, debated upon in the comments section. i would posit that youtube viewers & casual subscribers are not attentive to dnp’s ig story the way that the phandom is. even tho dnp are very, very [painfully] aware that videos you post online never truly disappear, i imagine 24-hour 10 second clips posted to their story without a comment section/immediate feedback feel lower stakes than clips edited together that will live forever on their youtube library (...or until their yanked down for being offensive *pours one out for amazingdan 2*)

i know we have differing opinions on the purpose of ig story. i understand it plays a part in their work—fostering loyal relationships with their viewers is certainly a part of their branding that has helped them do many professional things. but..they don’t get ad revenue on their story—they don’t get paid for clicks. to me it always feels a little bit like bonus, behind the scenes sort of content. i disagree that pictures and videos that they deemed shareable from their personal trip is the same thing as posting a vlog DITL-style video that generates ad sense. from my perspective they are not the same thing.