Dan & Phil Part 94: Year of the Rats

[Phanshy]

I care about Dan and Phil as people way more than I do about them as entertainers, I don't want Dan to do things that make him unhappy but I do want him to be honest about things and not just ignore us, especially because things are really different than they said they would be, which is ok if plans change but clarity isn't hard. Why can't they say sorry we thought the gaming channel was just going on a hiatus but we discovered that we aren't motivated to go back to it or whatever the reason.

I'm not on Twitter the only way I see his tweets is if someone posts them here, I am not a fan of Twitter Dan at all honestly find a lot icky, I generally just roll my eyes and move on. I don't however think he's planning on trying to sell us anything after the last time but I got clowned last time so I'm not completely writing it off. I'd much rather he said hey I've been working on something new merch/book/one man show whatever I'll release more details next week or whenever. The phandom would get hyped for that and it wouldn't feel manipulative like it felt to me last time. I personally think whatever he's working on is something he wants to be judged on it's own merits and not successful because of his existing fan base which is going to be really difficult and probably plays into him talking about imposter syndrome, is it successful because it's good or because the phandom will go see it or buy it no matter what? He struggles so much with perfectionism he'll probably be really hard on himself.
If Dan's decided he never wants to make another YouTube video or post another picture on Instagram that's ok I understand because personally the thought of sharing any part of myself like that would be a nightmare for me, but he could put a statement out saying he's done with this form of interacting with his audience for the foreseeable future because it has a negative impact on him, he could do it with comments turned off if he doesn't want to see the negative comments.

I know what it's like to have severe anxiety and depression I get anxiety hives and panic attacks every time I leave my house and I work myself into such a mess that I always throw up before making a call to everyone except 2 people so I have complete sympathy for Dan, I wouldn't want to be under the scrutiny he's under but a statement could clarify things once and for all. This constant elephant in the room situation is creating negativity in his comments and Phil's and in the phandom in general. Criticizing him doesn't mean we don't care or understand it's because we do care and having a metaphorical door slammed in our face hurts, even more so when he's willing to crack it open to sell something before slamming it closed again, it makes us feel stupid.

[blahblahblah8]

After reading the last few pages I’m not totally sure what the topic is right now lol but I kinda wanna share some thoughts I have. I see a lot of people have the mindset that the phandom is too harsh on dan or criticizes him too much and that might be why he doesn’t communicate. Just a disclaimer-I’ve been in this phandom for years but I was young in the beginning so I’m just gonna give my POV here, not trying to say that this is fact at all. I think the phandom relationship with dan is different than it is with Phil bec there were a lot of times where it seemed like dan didn’t like us. That was in the early years and so much has changed since then but feelings like that still linger. In BIG I feel like dan explained why he had a complex relationship with his audience and he made it sound like he’s happy with the way things are now and that he was ready to share more. But I’m not sure if something changed or I just misread what he meant but he went the opposite way and has just completely stopped sharing anything. I can understand why people might be mad bec it hurts to care about someone and feel ignored when they don’t give back. I’m not mad at him because i don’t think he’s intentionally trying to make us feel ignored. I have no way of knowing but I’m hoping he’s just working through some things to get to a point where he’s ready to grow his relationship with his audience again. I don’t believe he’s trying to change his audience, if it turns out that he is I’ll be very disappointed tbh. It would be much easier rn if he could just communicate about what he’s working on or why everything else changed. I’m not sure why he doesn’t, I hope it’s not because he’s avoiding the phandom’s response bec I believe that he knows his audience is made up of a mostly understanding and supportive people that care about him. I think that the idea people have that a lot of the audience likes to attack dan is outdated, I think that stems from how it was before when it felt like he didn’t like us. I see the majority being supportive of whatever project he’s working on. It’s okay to say that he’s bad at communicating, because he is lol. I don’t think saying that is negativity or criticism.

[Morganaa]

I was about to stop postin, 'cause like i said - it's pointless, butthis kinda struck me. Please, tell me just WHERE i was joking about taking pills to deal with anxiety? I said, quote " and went to get an anxiety pill... Or maybe without the last part, i dunno, i might be the only one loading myself up on pharmaceuticals when im panickin'...". Did hou seriously picked up this one line as a joke? Well, it wasnt. A LOT of people take anxiety pills, so i only said that i do and i dont know if he does - thats LITERALLY it. Where do you see a joke in that?
As for the rest... Your whole reply to me is basically what i deemed a common sense(again - i only said he's almost 30 and after decade should know how to deal with everything people's comments' related - again, that's LITERALLY it.). I didnt talk about anythimg else because i thought it was pretty obvious.

Jufearaya - again, where, for the love of god did i say you cannot have a breakdown after 30? Point it out for me, i dont remember sayin anything even close to that. And maybe i wasnt clear enough in all my gibberish if 2 people didnt get my point at all, too bad. Im gonna try to be now, as best as i can:
I was struggling with all kinds of mental problems basically since kindergarten. I was depressed as a child and a teenager, i had a VERY bad social phobia and anxiety that i almost failed to finish hs because of, i was scared to get out of my bed, scared of people and of everything. By the time i was 14 i was already after 2 suicidal attempts and a few months after the second one, i was already starting to struggle with addiction to(oh yeah) anxiety drugs and other ddpressants. That one never really stopped, even tho it's been YEARS. You really dont have to explain to me how mental problems work and can hit you at any age - i had a whole bunch of screws in my head wrong pretty much since i was born it seems like - the only difference is i had and have to deal with all my shit ALONE, nobody ever had emphaty for me, all i always heard was "do something with yourself", "so you're like, mentally ill? Oh shit" and "get help or something". Being seriously screwed up from the time you were a little kid to the time you are a grown woman(like you are), being around millions of people(not gonna talk how i managed to do that, but i was and will be again when the whole quarantine's over) when none of them ever cared a little and just looked at you screamin "oh my fucking god, you look awful!!! Maybe you shouldnt work when you're hangover all the time" and looking at you even more like you're a freak and shrugging when you said you aint hangover, just not feeling well mentally is a little different from somebofy not posting for some time and thousand people being like "omg, i hope he's ok, omg i hope he's not depressed again, omg, he may not be posting because of his mental health"etc. It's just a little different from what i went through, so sorry if my standards are a bit different and i think he should have his shit together by now cause he's 30. No one ever cared even once when i woke up in a hospital from overdose or with severe injuries in a course of a few months, a couple of times that is(not when i was 14 or 15, not when i was 20 and not when i was 22)so sorry if i think that having everybody running around you and wipe your ass like that for years just because you were once depressed and had internal homophobia is a little exaggerated, you know(yes, i dont know if he has some other problems - im just talking about those i know).
You wanna hear my whole life story, you're not gonna hear it or rather - read about it here(what i just wrote is maybe about 15% of what was going on). Let's just say im pretty sure you wouldnt want to swap places with me, even in your situation. But i still dont know why's that relevant since this topic aint about me and my life issues. I just said he should know how to deal with himself after all this time - and if that's his way of dealing then it's pretty fucking shitty. Thats my opinion.

And since this discussion has evaluated towards mental health, im bailing. I certainly dont wanna talk about that, but im sayimg that loudly instead of hiding. Bye everyone!

[Megancita75]

I've hesitated to wade into this discussion since it seems so cyclical and unproductive, and for all I know what I've written below is something I've already said before.

As a person new to this fandom and fandoms in general, I have found myself over the course of the last year struggling to find a way to feel less emotionally hijacked by discourse or speculation over DnP or by the actions or nonactions of DnP themselves. I have enough stuff going in my real life that affects me emotionally that I don't want to spend too much emotional energy feeling upset about two strangers on the Internet or other fans and I don't want to rely on any of them to make me happy.

It has been very helpful for me to think about the limits of what they (or any creator) can provide to me emotionally and creatively and distinguish between critical analysis of what is provided to us and acceptance of other things that aren't provided to us. So what I've landed on for now is to just focus on and react to what I get, which is content from Phil and occasional social media interaction from Dan. And I try not to assign meaning to what we don't get -- so the lack of joint content or communication about future plans is just that, an absence that doesn't mean anything other than that it is absent; it's completely neutral.

When I do get triggered by discourse it is very similar to the same pattern I follow when I get triggered by anxiety, where I react emotionally to anticipated events or invented scenarios and then catastrophize; I'm a happier person when I can instead take a breath and assess the actual information I have in front of me, remind myself of what I can and can't realistically control, and make an effort to identify the positives.

So in the case of Dan's communication style, if I were to follow my normal anxiety pattern I could spend a lot of time trying to guess at what the silence means and catastrophize that it means he hates me, or that he is in crisis, or that he only cares about money, or that he is in general a bastard; or I could look at the information I do have (a dude who has said he is taking a break, who has said he doesn't like to talk about plans until they are concrete, who has said he finds social media stressful and who only likes to post when he has something interesting to share or say, who has said he appreciates fans but the era of giving fans what they want is over, who has said he is trying to explore his creativity in private and doesn't know what the future holds, who has said he has projects but has no timeline for them, and who occasionally shows up on social media with something sweet or funny or perverse); accept that I have very little power to influence his behavior or creative output or to read his mind; and celebrate that what I do have in front of me is an inspiring example of a guy re-inventing himself.

There are so many good things in this fan space -- interesting conversations about content and creativity and sexuality and pop culture and mental health, great art and fic, really smart and funny fans, and two creators who have provided a lot of content together in the past and whose separate creative futures look exciting. Those are the things I'm choosing to concentrate on because the other approach just needlessly hurts me.

What I've written here is just what has been helpful to me and is my two cents and isn't meant to be critical of other ways of engaging with creators. I get that we all have a different fan experience and expectations; I've just been trying to sort out in my own mind what approach will work best for me in the long-term for any creator I choose to stan.

[dontpanic]

I miss moving theories. If they do end up buying a house in the future do we think they'd stay in London?

[Phanshy]

I miss moving theories. If they do end up buying a house in the future do we think they'd stay in London?

I think not central London maybe a outer borough, but who knows, I don't really understand why they haven't bought a house yet unless they see there forever home further away but aren't ready to give up central London living yet.
I don't see them actually telling us for understandable reasons, as long as Phil has a white wall to film in front of avoids filming flooring and stays away from kitchen based content we will just be left speculating.

[obsessivelymoody]

Considering how their last 3 places have had their locations leaked through stuff like floorplans, I highly doubt we will see anything. They didn't even want to/haven't shown us much of the current flat(s), and I think that's definitely more for safety's sake than anything else.

Though, I wonder how the pandemic might be putting a wrench in house hunting? To me the current flat situation has always been totally temporary, from day one when Dan said it wasn't a "forever home", only to be amplified by literally everything else they've said about it. Personally I'm surprised they haven't moved yet, but I guess searching for that forever home takes time, especially with guys like deps But hey maybe they could have moved! Kept the filming flat and have a real home to live in most of the time. Doubtful, though, considering what we have seen recently from Phil and Norman Fest stuff and the uh pandemic lol.

I'm always camped out on moving hill, though, so I will always be sitting here with my lawn chair and popcorn awaiting any movement.

[kavat]

I've hesitated to wade into this discussion since it seems so cyclical and unproductive, and for all I know what I've written below is something I've already said before.

As a person new to this fandom and fandoms in general, I have found myself over the course of the last year struggling to find a way to feel less emotionally hijacked by discourse or speculation over DnP or by the actions or nonactions of DnP themselves. I have enough stuff going in my real life that affects me emotionally that I don't want to spend too much emotional energy feeling upset about two strangers on the Internet or other fans and I don't want to rely on any of them to make me happy.

It has been very helpful for me to think about the limits of what they (or any creator) can provide to me emotionally and creatively and distinguish between critical analysis of what is provided to us and acceptance of other things that aren't provided to us. So what I've landed on for now is to just focus on and react to what I get, which is content from Phil and occasional social media interaction from Dan. And I try not to assign meaning to what we don't get -- so the lack of joint content or communication about future plans is just that, an absence that doesn't mean anything other than that it is absent; it's completely neutral.

When I do get triggered by discourse it is very similar to the same pattern I follow when I get triggered by anxiety, where I react emotionally to anticipated events or invented scenarios and then catastrophize; I'm a happier person when I can instead take a breath and assess the actual information I have in front of me, remind myself of what I can and can't realistically control, and make an effort to identify the positives.

So in the case of Dan's communication style, if I were to follow my normal anxiety pattern I could spend a lot of time trying to guess at what the silence means and catastrophize that it means he hates me, or that he is in crisis, or that he only cares about money, or that he is in general a bastard; or I could look at the information I do have (a dude who has said he is taking a break, who has said he doesn't like to talk about plans until they are concrete, who has said he finds social media stressful and who only likes to post when he has something interesting to share or say, who has said he appreciates fans but the era of giving fans what they want is over, who has said he is trying to explore his creativity in private and doesn't know what the future holds, who has said he has projects but has no timeline for them, and who occasionally shows up on social media with something sweet or funny or perverse); accept that I have very little power to influence his behavior or creative output or to read his mind; and celebrate that what I do have in front of me is an inspiring example of a guy re-inventing himself.

There are so many good things in this fan space -- interesting conversations about content and creativity and sexuality and pop culture and mental health, great art and fic, really smart and funny fans, and two creators who have provided a lot of content together in the past and whose separate creative futures look exciting. Those are the things I'm choosing to concentrate on because the other approach just needlessly hurts me.

What I've written here is just what has been helpful to me and is my two cents and isn't meant to be critical of other ways of engaging with creators. I get that we all have a different fan experience and expectations; I've just been trying to sort out in my own mind what approach will work best for me in the long-term for any creator I choose to stan.

Thank you for this whole post. You put concrete words on something I've only been able to think about in very abstract ways.

[coffeepenguin]

Hi, slightly weird question, sorry, but since it's the only phandom space I interact with I don't have much choice: does anyone have any links or timestamps to Dan's publicly expressed opinions about Eminem? I've searched the forum and tried to search youtube, but I can't really find anything, apart from a couple of very brief mentions and of course that thing in BIG, and I'm sure he must have talked about him on some occasion. Also, if anyone has a working link to the liveshow on 12th November 2013 that would be great (it says in the liveshow timestamps thread that the link is unavailable), it appears that there is a longer mention there. You can DM me if you don't want to talk about it in the main thread. Thanks in advance for any help!

[flarequake]

Had a look at the playlists I have bookmarked and that one’s been blocked by Dan. I can’t find another upload of it, that’s the one on phanshows’ channel. It’s called ‘I love me a 1d triple dip mmm’, if that helps at all, but who knows why he blocked it. I don’t remember any specific Eminem mentions, I’m afraid.

[flarequake]

Just saw a photo of Dan from Pride last year and it got me thinking. It’s this one -

I’ve noticed this look on his face and in his eyes a few times since he came out and in some of his movements or mannerisms in BIG like the shoulder turn and when he said ‘but I didn’t have to, love you!”, his cute pose when he knelt by the polling station sign in his ‘I voted’ ig photo. In those he’s acting maybe purposefully cute and as if he’s hidden that for years, or maybe only just felt like it recently as he’s felt able to talk about things and be his full self more. I wonder if it’s part of why he hasn’t wanted to keep making videos, especially as he said they feel like a snapshot of how you are and that he was changing so much (did he say that in the mukbang? I forget when it was exactly.)

He’s so often been sarcastic, deadpan, the serious one compared to Phil’s bright, silly energy and if he was more cute more often, that would be quite a change. He might not be like that often, maybe it’s not much of anything except the odd moment, maybe it’s just how he is sometimes when he’s particularly happy. He’s always been by turns sarcastic, loud, dramatic and various other things and not one way all the time, but it’s interesting to notice.

[madzilla84]

I always feel like I have some sort of social blindness when this comes up in conversation (maybe I do, who knows), but I feel like I haven't seen a *dramatic* change in the way he's acting and presenting himself so far (not that we've seen him much, admittedly), and I feel like he was definitely doing that 'cute' look sometimes pre-BIG in photos and such, especially fan selfies like that one. It was actually something I worried about; because we hadn't seen him for so long I was worried he'd feel different when we did, but so far every time we have in the last year or so he's been still Very Dan. But of course, both expressions and opinions are widely open to interpretation.

[poweroftriangles]

Aside: This Twitter account has been giving me a lot of joy.

[liola]

I just realized that they sent out a Dan and Phil shop newsletter today, to promote the sale of Truth Bomb while stocks are available (I imagine it's the one with their names on it and that's why it only talks about their store supply)

What I did find weird, like it gave me a pause, is that they signed it with IRL merch team rather than DnP. Does anyone recall this happening before? I dunno why such a simple detail made me pause on it!

[Amiaw]

What I did find weird, like it gave me a pause, is that they signed it with IRL merch team rather than DnP. Does anyone recall this happening before? I dunno why such a simple detail made me pause on it!

Yes they signed it that way on a previous newsletter

[liola]

What I did find weird, like it gave me a pause, is that they signed it with IRL merch team rather than DnP. Does anyone recall this happening before? I dunno why such a simple detail made me pause on it!

Yes they signed it that way on a previous newsletter

Ah thank you, who knows why it didn't register the other time but it did today!

[asleepycactus]

i've been here long enough (never really posted, only observed from afar) to notice that some people on this forum never hold dan accountable for his behavior and i can never understand why. "he doesn't owe us anything" doesn't hold up the same argument anymore i think after he's only put up a merch shop and nothing else.

[Megancita75]

I was thinking recently about LGBTQ films that I've loved watching, and that I might re-watch during this era of staying at home more. I thought I'd share my list of recommended movies (with the caveat that I tend to like a certain type of film: slow, indie, international. I do wish there were more films out there in general that weren't coming out stories -- I think I've reached saturation on that -- but a fair number of these are that story. Anyway, I'd love other recommendations if anyone has some!

Aimee & Jaguar
A Fantastic Woman
A Date for Mad Mary
Beach Rats
Beginners
Bound
Boys Don't Cry
The Cakemaker
Call Me By Your Name
Desert Hearts
Disobedience
Eastsiders
Eyes Wide Open
Free Fall
God’s Own Country
Heartland
Heavenly Creatures
Henry Gamble’s Birthday Party
High Art
In the Grayscale
Love Simon
Moonlight
Mosquita and Mari
Paris 05:59
Pit Stop
Plan B
Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Pride
Shelter
Tangerine
Tomboy
Undertow
Weekend

[Megancita75]

Gonna add one more since the Edit window closed:

Fingersmith (excellent book, excellent miniseries adaptation)

[lefthandedism]

My all-time favorite queer movie is "My Beautiful Laundrette".

Check out our LGBT Film, TV Show, and Book Recs thread for more great recommendations!

[oriharakaoru]

Hi there, first time posting, but I lurk occasionally. I'm also a post-COU fan, so excuse my ignorance! I'm sure this has probably been discussed on this forum before, and I am HIGHLY curious about it. Has anyone vaguely figured out the layout of the filming flat? It has these rooms for sure, right?

- gaming room
- lounge with the Muse poster and weird frosted glass wall (wtf - where does this go???)
- filming kitchen

also possible (???) rooms:

- dan's (brief lol) filming set-up at the desk
- maybe phil's new set-up and live show set-up??
- hallway in COTY where Phil filmed the closet scene?

none of this really matters at all, but sometimes it keeps me up at night like i'm red-string-meme guy i stg. feel free to just link me to old post from like 2018 lol.

[dontpanic]

i've been here long enough (never really posted, only observed from afar) to notice that some people on this forum never hold dan accountable for his behavior and i can never understand why. "he doesn't owe us anything" doesn't hold up the same argument anymore i think after he's only put up a merch shop and nothing else.

I mean, I can only speak for myself here but in all honestly I just genuinely don't feel there's anything that Dan has done to be held accountable for? Like, I don't really feel entitled to anything from him in the way that some do, I honestly feel like he's communicated well enough to know he's taking a step back from social media and is working on something that takes time and that's all I personally need. I'll be delighted when he releases whatever he's planning but until then I'm not going to like, waste my energy getting mad or whatever.

edit: ooh, if we're talking about heartbreaking films with lgbt+ ppl there's always Lilting(2014)

[bluecaterpillar]

Hi there, first time posting, but I lurk occasionally. I'm also a post-COU fan, so excuse my ignorance! I'm sure this has probably been discussed on this forum before, and I am HIGHLY curious about it. Has anyone vaguely figured out the layout of the filming flat? It has these rooms for sure, right?

- gaming room
- lounge with the Muse poster and weird frosted glass wall (wtf - where does this go???)
- filming kitchen

also possible (???) rooms:

- dan's (brief lol) filming set-up at the desk
- maybe phil's new set-up and live show set-up??
- hallway in COTY where Phil filmed the closet scene?

none of this really matters at all, but sometimes it keeps me up at night like i'm red-string-meme guy i stg. feel free to just link me to old post from like 2018 lol.

filming flat:
-baking kitchen/lounge with muse poster (all one room)
-office, where dan used to film and where phil currently films. this is the room behind the frosted glass wall
-gaming room
-phil's old 'bedroom'. the wardrobe in here is the one he used for the closet scene in coty

as for where phil livestreams, no idea where that is. i assume it's somewhere in the filming flat because it's something he does for work, but that's just a guess.

I mean, I can only speak for myself here but in all honestly I just genuinely don't feel there's anything that Dan has done to be held accountable for? Like, I don't really feel entitled to anything from him in the way that some do, I honestly feel like he's communicated well enough to know he's taking a step back from social media and is working on something that takes time and that's all I personally need. I'll be delighted when he releases whatever he's planning but until then I'm not going to like, waste my energy getting mad or whatever.

edit: ooh, if we're talking about heartbreaking films with lgbt+ ppl there's always Lilting(2014)

yeah, i miss dan but he'll be back. what has he done recently that warrants being mad at him? we know he's working on stuff. he's not asking us for anything right now. he's not dropping merch left right and centre anymore.

and if we're talking lgbt films i recommend brokeback mountain if you want to cry and 'but i'm a cheerleader' for something more light-hearted.

[firsttimeposter]

Joining in with the lgbtq+ films, one that I’ve recently started loving (but isn’t quite a queer film) is billy elliot. It’s very queer coded and has some lovely, very different lgbtq+ scenes and a main character who, if not queer, is definitely free of prejudice and an ally. It’s an AMAZING film (haven’t seen the musical), and is soo sweet with its representation. Though it is quite old and a bit rough around the edges.
It’s very straight forward and Very northern which is .

[malday]

Judging by some of the words used someone not knowing dnp reading these posts might think Dan is some horrible scheming guy, instead of some dude with issues and flaws like the rest of us.
Parasocial relationships have been brought up a lot of times on this forum. Maybe if you have strong negative feelings towards him and presume the worst intentions, it's time for you to parasocially break up with him already. Why waste time, money, energy on someone you feel keeps disappointing you?