[Offtopic]love, love, love you guys and your opinions! we should probably make a separate thread for this tho, don't wanna piss anyone off by derailing etc.[/Offtopic]
So, the other day, I was looking at the listing for their old place and it sells at £200-£300k which strikes as odd, quite frankly. For comparison, I live by the countryside with my parents and two siblings where our house is valued around £600k. Both of my parents work as a senior member of staff at a primary school and the owner of their own company respectively. Why is it that Dan and Phil have such a low mortgage, despite living in London and presumably raking in the thousands weekly? Have they upgraded now or what?
Your post also got me thinking about the subtext of Dimple and er, Pimple (idk sorry) in relation to voldy. Do you think part of the reason that Dan was this face of the video leak wasn't because Dan was more hurt by it, but maybe because Dan - who was the subject - was less hurt by it? Because if you believe it being real, it's a very emotional and private Phil being exposed. If you believe it isn't real, it's still something that was never intended for public viewing. I think it was easier for Dan to be the face of this because Dan didnt make it. If anybody is going to be emotionally affected by this, surely it would be the creator more than the person it was made for? (if you believe it to be real) Therefore Dan became the arsehole online because Dan was embarrassed/hurt/thicker skinned than Phil in this situation? I have ALWAYS read this situation as Dan being the one who was hurt and lashing out, but maybe it was Dan protecting somebody he loved who was very hurt, and wasn't lashing out but was choosing to have himself be the face of drama to protect Phil? Because Phil never acknowledged it I always assumed he was more okay than Dan who I read as obviously hurting, but now I'm wondering if the complete opposite was true. Phil was devastated, and they/Dan decided to use Dan to draw attention away from Phil to give him chance to heal.
(regardless the video IMMEDIATELY after the 2nd leak is Internet Support Group, and Dan isn't okay in that video)
first, thank you for you reply (and also from liola, goingbackto505 and obscureDnPreference)
I remember oqua made this post concerning their behaviour after the initial leak and made a timeline posted of their online presence on this day:
To summarize, the post went into detail, analyzing their online presence and theorized that for the few hours that Phil "went silent" online while Dan was dealing with the aftermath, this may have been a period where he was distressed/trouble as one could imagine. It's an interesting post, not only does it make sense in the "timeline" of events of that day, but also puts into perspective both Dan and Phil's behavior during this time, rationalizing Phil's silence and Dan's aggression as Dan's way of taking the attention away from Phil, and it works. This is based off of other posts people have made here. That the aggression and anger Dan demonstrated was not directed at Phil, but at the phandom itself, which is also understandable given the context.
I do believe that this period has had a knock-on effect with their behavior and openness online, particularly Phil. He seemed to have a change in video design and behavior on this channel after this, where his person really kicks in and he becomes more of a surface layer of himself. He deletes old videos of his past and of himself and tries to start himself fresh and brush away his past, not as anything necessarily incriminating, but that he felt too exposed and wanted to retract what he put out there. It's more affirming to see this curve back and him slowly becoming more open and more "himself" if that makes any sense, while I love Phil it did feel at times like he was wearing a mask and just putting on his happy-go-lucky expressions and smiles. Dan's recent comment about Phil's passiveness to negativity and contentment with being himself made me feel more at ease, that he's not worried with himself or secretly unhappy. I'm not claiming he's a 100 percent A-okay, but it's nice to hear from somebody like him. Dan who constantly makes self-depreciating comments and worrisome expressions on mental health. While Dan is prone to that kind of self-outlook, it's affirming to hear that he views Phil as a strong person (also nice if you consider how this is something Dan views positively and cute phan moments and all that). At least then, the kind of fear that he has become negatively affected by the leak, isn't too great? But who's to really know someone's trauma, the severity or even the lasting effects, in their case.
Thank you for essentially confirming what I thought. I think it's interesting to analyse their behaviour at this time, because I think it is a lot more united and deliberate than it appears at first glance. And Phils way of protecting himself is enabled by Dan taking control, which is something I think that is very subtle and easy to miss.
I know we will never find out, but I do wonder what it was like when they realised it had leaked.
gohomohowell wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:46 am
Two more optional questions:
1. Do you want Dan to come out with a label? As bisexual, pansexual, anything like that? Do you secretly wish that he did so no one could ever reasonably think of him as straight again? Or are you really satisfied with how it is now, just picking up the hints and references? Do you agree with Dan not wanting any labels, or do you secretly think that's dumb and believe he must have a label that he's just not confident enough to share yet? Divulge, divulge :twisted:
2. Let's say, Dan and Phil come out as a couple. It's simple - a caption on an Instagram post calling each other boyfriends or a kiss on the cheek. But after that confirmation.... nothing happens. They act exactly the same, sit exactly the same distance apart and you won't ever get any public kisses or hugs out of them. Maybe it's out of habit for them, or they're afraid of the backlash or they feel uncomfortable with all the fetishizing teen girls, whatever. But would you lose interest or would you keep speculating? Would you watch their videos with as much vigor as before? Or would you abandon ship? Because this is something we reference a lot but never give our own answers to.
Honesty, honesty, honesty!
Honesty? Lets do this.
1. I don't want Dan to come out with a label because I am very free in my labelfree form (though if I had to I'd probably be bi/pansexual...? idk) I wish he'd do ONE thing that would without a doubt shut up the 'but he's straight' people up for good - but I don't know what more he could do without it being weirdly invasive and to me he's already got to that point? I think a lot of people have internalised 'straight as norm' when they view Dan which is why people continue to read him as straight. But I NEVER want him to label himself (unless thats what he wanted) because it is so validating to have someone in such a position of influence show that you don't have to make a big thing about sexuality, you can just be and thats enough. I'd like to see him be like 'as someone who isn't heterosexual' but literally nothing more than that. You don't need to even do that, let alone anything more.
2. I would be so fucking happy - I think I'd have such a feeling of validation and that I was right. I would keep watching, because i'm not here for the ship, I tried to tell myself I'm only here because I want to see them confirm Phan and I felt like it was imminent - nope i'm here for good. Unless Dan gets on my tits again But seriously though, I do feel like if ANYTHING ever happens, it'd be something small and subtle like that, undeniable but subtle. Like maybe in a gaming video idk.
archived wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:47 pm
7. Older than it should be, I'm 16 and no offence but some people on here remind me of twilight mums.
I think I probably thought the same about older fans when I was 16, but as I've gotten older I've realised that you don't just magically become """an adult""" lol. Interests don't just disappear when you turn 18, and you don't just suddenly become interested in designated "sophisticated" adult things. Also, it makes sense that so many people in their 20s and 30s (and older!) are interested in Dan and Phil, as we're actually closer in age and life stage to Dan and Phil than teenagers are. Also, some of us have been here since we were teenagers (I was 16 when I first started watching), why should we have to just pack it all up and move on once we reach adulthood if our interest in them hasn't waned? With time, my opinions on Dan and Phil have matured and I've actually learned a lot about myself through them, and ultimately Dan and Phil are a great, lighthearted escape from uni, work and the hellscape that is 2017. There are no rules, let people enjoy what they enjoy regardless of age.
Thank you for this refreshing attitude! At 29 it seems I'm one of the older members of this forum, but I have been watching Phil since I was 18 and Dan since I was 21! Why should I have grown out of D&P (and YouTube in general, my teenage cousins think I'm super weird for still being interested in it!) when I, and many other fans my age, were pioneers of the platform?
The snotty attitude of 'mainstream media' and, to be honest, the fandoms themselves, that YouTube is just for teenagers really pisses me off. There was a discussion on here the other day about D&P being 'looked down on' as something for just teenage girls, but I think the attitude that they're only for that demographic is perpetuated between the Phandom itself. Older fans do exist, we're just not as vocal or visible and we have as much right to be here as anyone else.
This is inherently different from middle aged women getting hot and bothered about romance novels written specifically for teenagers, and lusting over 17-year-old Taylor Lautner. This is people consuming and interacting with content made by their peers.
(Sorry - this is a sore subject for me).
I find the Twilight mums comment interesting because I'm assuming what archived meant is people who are old enough to be D&P's mum sexualising them? Or fawning over them and viewing them as flawless when they're both not. The first one I'm not bothered about because they're adults, I find it weirder seeing 14 year olds calling Phil dad tbh, but the second one I can understand why you'd feel like that. Like there isn't a lot of trash talking about them here, and if there is its normally quickly stifled, which can give the illusion that they're 100% perfect all of the time.
But for me the connotation is that theres an age limit on a fandom is amusing. I once had people on Twitter say that at 19 I was 'too old' to be a fan of My Chemical Romance (lul what they've been my favourite band for literally 10 years to this day) and that I was a horrible person because I'd seen them live twice and a load of other shit. (including death threats lol, all because they misinterpreted a tweet that got read out by Daniel P. Carter on Radio One). Theres no age limit. I've been a fan of them since I was 17, and theres less of an age gap between Dan and I than there is between Dan and Phil. (something like 3 years 11 months compared to 4 years 5 months) and I feel like I can relate more to Dan in particular because a lot of the life stuff he's gone through (university, hating it, dropping out, being disillusioned and feeling like you have no direction in life, having parents not prepare you to be an adult, taking a massive gamble on something that shouldn't work out but did) has ALL happened to me. How the hell is the average Phandom member (i'm guessing aged between 13-17) supposed to relate to any of that? I find it weirder when one of them tries to make a video about being in education because neither of them have been in it for SO long. Its just forced.
(Though if Phil is reading this I would 100% love to hear about your time at uni in more depth)
ALSO: to whoever said that 'I only found voldy because of people screaming that they DIDNT have it'. Yep. I would have never have known about it, except I ended up following a chain of links that led me to master posts of every video ever and they all said WE DONT HAVE THAT VIDEO and because I couldn't get a straight answer, I honestly thought it was something like an unlisted video to send to someone you like on Valentines idk?! I ended up searching for it to find it and watched it like whereas if people had never mentioned it/linked to a brief description of it, i would have never gone looking for it?!
1. Do you want Dan to come out with a label? As bisexual, pansexual, anything like that? Do you secretly wish that he did so no one could ever reasonably think of him as straight again? Or are you really satisfied with how it is now, just picking up the hints and references? Do you agree with Dan not wanting any labels, or do you secretly think that's dumb and believe he must have a label that he's just not confident enough to share yet? Divulge, divulge :twisted:
2. Let's say, Dan and Phil come out as a couple. It's simple - a caption on an Instagram post calling each other boyfriends or a kiss on the cheek. But after that confirmation.... nothing happens. They act exactly the same, sit exactly the same distance apart and you won't ever get any public kisses or hugs out of them. Maybe it's out of habit for them, or they're afraid of the backlash or they feel uncomfortable with all the fetishizing teen girls, whatever. But would you lose interest or would you keep speculating? Would you watch their videos with as much vigor as before? Or would you abandon ship? Because this is something we reference a lot but never give our own answers to.
1) The only thing I would want to see short of an outright label, is at least a general acknowledgement of being non-straight, because I agree, for some folks maybe labels are passé or because of the fluid nature of sexuality what can be labeled today is maybe not the same as in the future. But, I think just saying you don't believe in labels is a bit of a copout, mainly because of the negative association I have as it applies to some celebrities who are actually straight, but maybe have a sizable queer following so they throw around the "no labels" thing as a sort of queer-baiting tactic. I'd also like to see some sort of general non-straight/ queer-spectrum acknowledgement too because I think relying on Dan's history of male attraction mentions is supportive evidence, but not direct evidence—take for example Caspar, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone that would argue that he isn't squarely straight, yet, he casually mentions male attraction and appreciation nearly as much as Dan. So, I guess my point is, you can still ascribe to no labels if that's what you're comfortable with and that's how you identify, but I'd still like to see some sort of acknowledgement of queerness other than the inferences made by his male attraction comments.
2) I'd be lying if I didn't think it would change my viewing perspective in some manner, but in no way would I go "okay, finally, mystery solved... time to pack up and go home". I think I would be just as engaged, if not more so, and still looking for little domestic clues about their life together.
gohomohowell wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:04 pm
[Offtopic]love, love, love you guys and your opinions! we should probably make a separate thread for this tho, don't wanna piss anyone off by derailing etc.[/Offtopic]
So, the other day, I was looking at the listing for their old place and it sells at £200-£300k which strikes as odd, quite frankly. For comparison, I live by the countryside with my parents and two siblings where our house is valued around £600k. Both of my parents work as a senior member of staff at a primary school and the owner of their own company respectively. Why is it that Dan and Phil have such a low mortgage, despite living in London and presumably raking in the thousands weekly? Have they upgraded now or what?
Sorry to KEEP replying but I am bored at work today, and so interested in property in London at the moment, since I live in the boys' old area and I'm hoping to buy closeish next year.
First of all, it's worth bearing in mind they didn't own their old flat so they wouldn't have had a mortgage. They probably paid around £2,500 a month in rent for that flat in that area.
Secondly I'm not sure where you saw that listing but it might have been from when the last time the house was sold which was obviously before 2012 (which is when D&P moved in I think?). House prices have risen a LOT since then and I reckon the flat is probably now worth upwards of £400,000.
It's impossible to tell what kind of mortgage Dan and Phil would choose to go to when they buy a house (or houses!). They might decide to have a small mortgage and buy a modest place cos they don't know when the YT money will dry up and they wanna be able to pay it off quickly. Or they might not even be able to get a big mortgage because they're both technically self-employed so have to settle for something smaller. They might keep renting for the next few years so they can save for a really big deposit to put down when they do buy. There are so many variables when it comes to buying property that it's honestly impossible to speculate!
sparkle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:16 pm
I find the Twilight mums comment interesting because I'm assuming what archived meant is people who are old enough to be D&P's mum sexualising them? Or fawning over them and viewing them as flawless when they're both not. The first one I'm not bothered about because they're adults, I find it weirder seeing 14 year olds calling Phil dad tbh, but the second one I can understand why you'd feel like that. Like there isn't a lot of trash talking about them here, and if there is its normally quickly stifled, which can give the illusion that they're 100% perfect all of the time.
But for me the connotation is that theres an age limit on a fandom is amusing. I once had people on Twitter say that at 19 I was 'too old' to be a fan of My Chemical Romance (lul what they've been my favourite band for literally 10 years to this day) and that I was a horrible person because I'd seen them live twice and a load of other shit. (including death threats lol, all because they misinterpreted a tweet that got read out by Daniel P. Carter on Radio One). Theres no age limit. I've been a fan of them since I was 17, and theres less of an age gap between Dan and I than there is between Dan and Phil. (something like 3 years 11 months compared to 4 years 5 months) and I feel like I can relate more to Dan in particular because a lot of the life stuff he's gone through (university, hating it, dropping out, being disillusioned and feeling like you have no direction in life, having parents not prepare you to be an adult, taking a massive gamble on something that shouldn't work out but did) has ALL happened to me. How the hell is the average Phandom member (i'm guessing aged between 13-17) supposed to relate to any of that? I find it weirder when one of them tries to make a video about being in education because neither of them have been in it for SO long. Its just forced.
Agree with everything you said here, I've had the same thing re-entering the FOB fandom this year: after the hiatus the online fandom is now mainly teenagers, who think it's weird I like FOB when I'm nearly 30 (never mind I saw my first FOB show in like 2004) and are sending graphic tweets to men literally old enough to be their dads.
The thing about the Twilight-mums thing is that there aren't people here sexualising or idolising D&P when they're old enough to be their parents, because the boys are undeniably adults - which teenage fans seem to forget sometimes it feels like.
The absolute oldest person I've encountered in the Phandom was in their early 40's, so old enough to be D&P's very young aunt at the very worst, and the older fans are also far less likely to see the boys as infalliable role-models, I feel.
That's why I said it was different from middle aged women getting excited about Taylor Lautner with his top off! And I agree, it's still far less creepy than a 15 year old telling Phil she wants him to something something her vagina, which I often see in replies to the boys tweets.
Dia I love your post, it gave me so much to munch on yesterday. Your post plus the majority of people saying they like Dan better (myself included) despite him getting the most criticism got he thinking. The other day I watched a video of..how not to be boring, I think? How to make yourself interesting? Something like that. The point was that we tend to be interested in people who are more emotive, who share their feelings and thoughts. I thought this related back to what you (Dia) said about Phil being straightforward and Dan being a mystery. On so many topics, Phil tells us about it...but he doesn't "show" us, if that makes sense, whereas dan, as everyone has said, is dramatic and emotive and expressive and even if he doesn't tell us something, he shows us how he feels about it. (In general of course, not 100% of the time) Phil would say, in his typical chipper AP way, that he's kinda sad about something, whereas dan will go into a passionate rant and even if it's annoying af, he draws more people to him because it makes him more interesting. Not to say that Phil is boring of course, he's not, but it may be one of the reasons Dan is more popular. Basically, maybe since Dans more expressive, more people connect with him, even when he isn't straightforward.
gohomohowell wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:13 pm
[Offtopic]
1. Who do you really prefer out of Dan and Phil
2. How many times have you shared Lord Voldemort's best phan edit of all?
3. Do you like the dipper brothers being on Youtube or not? Do you ever want them to do more.... or less?
4. If Dantru and Phollum came out separately disclosing non-straight sexualities, but not as being a couple, what would you think? Would you say that coming out as being in a gay couple is a bigger deal than coming out as non straight, or would you get annoyed and say that they're ship baiting etc.?
5. Have you ever stalked too far and found stuff that you shouldn't have? (Not talking about voldy here, other stuff such as addresses or full names etc.)
6. Most annoying thing about Danetrius and most annoying thing about Philesphical, go.
7. What's the average age on this site? (This is just me asking generally lmao, there must be a lot of people my age and younger but it seems they're the quiet and inactive minority/majority)
Answer!
[/Offtopic]
1. Phil. He's prettier and I find his content - although shallow - a nice positive distraction from whatever I have going on in my life.
2. I've shared it with a few close IRL friends who also watch them. Not gonna lie, I've watched it a lot.
3. I do love them being on YouTube, and I don't want them to leave any time soon.
4. If they come out as not-straight, it'll confirm their romantic relationship for me. I think coming out as a couple is a bigger deal though because it's already pretty obvious they're not straight.
5. I don't really stalk per se, but I know too much. And I consider myself a pretty hardcore fan.
6. Dan - he seems to not be very fond of his demographic. He also looks down on Phil sometimes. Phil - he almost never shares in-depth (ha) opinions. Also I'd love for him to act a little more his age and make more mature content.
sparkle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:16 pm
I find the Twilight mums comment interesting because I'm assuming what archived meant is people who are old enough to be D&P's mum sexualising them? Or fawning over them and viewing them as flawless when they're both not. The first one I'm not bothered about because they're adults, I find it weirder seeing 14 year olds calling Phil dad tbh, but the second one I can understand why you'd feel like that. Like there isn't a lot of trash talking about them here, and if there is its normally quickly stifled, which can give the illusion that they're 100% perfect all of the time.
But for me the connotation is that theres an age limit on a fandom is amusing. I once had people on Twitter say that at 19 I was 'too old' to be a fan of My Chemical Romance (lul what they've been my favourite band for literally 10 years to this day) and that I was a horrible person because I'd seen them live twice and a load of other shit. (including death threats lol, all because they misinterpreted a tweet that got read out by Daniel P. Carter on Radio One). Theres no age limit. I've been a fan of them since I was 17, and theres less of an age gap between Dan and I than there is between Dan and Phil. (something like 3 years 11 months compared to 4 years 5 months) and I feel like I can relate more to Dan in particular because a lot of the life stuff he's gone through (university, hating it, dropping out, being disillusioned and feeling like you have no direction in life, having parents not prepare you to be an adult, taking a massive gamble on something that shouldn't work out but did) has ALL happened to me. How the hell is the average Phandom member (i'm guessing aged between 13-17) supposed to relate to any of that? I find it weirder when one of them tries to make a video about being in education because neither of them have been in it for SO long. Its just forced.
Agree with everything you said here, I've had the same thing re-entering the FOB fandom this year: after the hiatus the online fandom is now mainly teenagers, who think it's weird I like FOB when I'm nearly 30 (never mind I saw my first FOB show in like 2004) and are sending graphic tweets to men literally old enough to be their dads.
The thing about the Twilight-mums thing is that there aren't people here sexualising or idolising D&P when they're old enough to be their parents. The absolute oldest person I've encountered in the Phandom was in their early 40's, so old enough to be D&P's very young aunt at the very worst, and the older fans are also far less likely to see the boys as infalliable role-models, I feel.
That's why I said it was different from middle aged women getting excited about Taylor Lautner with his top off! And I agree, it's still far less creepy than a 15 year old telling Phil she wants him to something something her vagina, which I often see in replies to the boys tweets.
I agree so much! Especially with the FOB thing, like I'm 22 and i've been a fan since 2008, I've seen them four times and last time I felt like a veteran fan and isn't Pete pushing 40? Like if you're 15 he's definitely old enough to be your parent. Bit weird. Still a bit weird with Phil and he's only 30.
I completely agree with everything you said, especially that this is kinda different to the Twilight situation. That was fucking weird, and I remember being in a supermarket and seeing a woman who was about 50 covered in loads of really shittly done Twilight tattoos, I mean like art you wouldn't even put on the fridge level bad, wearing a Team Edward t-shirt. And I genuinely don't think anyone has ever sexualised D&P the way that Taylor and Robert were sexualised. Thank God.
gohomohowell wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:46 am
Two more optional questions:
1. Do you want Dan to come out with a label? As bisexual, pansexual, anything like that? Do you secretly wish that he did so no one could ever reasonably think of him as straight again? Or are you really satisfied with how it is now, just picking up the hints and references? Do you agree with Dan not wanting any labels, or do you secretly think that's dumb and believe he must have a label that he's just not confident enough to share yet? Divulge, divulge :twisted:
2. Let's say, Dan and Phil come out as a couple. It's simple - a caption on an Instagram post calling each other boyfriends or a kiss on the cheek. But after that confirmation.... nothing happens. They act exactly the same, sit exactly the same distance apart and you won't ever get any public kisses or hugs out of them. Maybe it's out of habit for them, or they're afraid of the backlash or they feel uncomfortable with all the fetishizing teen girls, whatever. But would you lose interest or would you keep speculating? Would you watch their videos with as much vigor as before? Or would you abandon ship? Because this is something we reference a lot but never give our own answers to.
Honesty, honesty, honesty!
And you're welcome
I love hearing people's answers to these questions!
1. I don't think a label would be necessary, I just wish he would confirm, once and for all, that he isn't straight, since it would stop all of the people who don't watch him or really notice what he says from claiming he's just a straight guy who constantly queerbaits. However, I do think at this point most people who are actually invested (at least that I know of) do view him as not straight, and the anti view has shifted somewhat from "they're both straight" to "they're queer but not together."
2. If Dan and Phil explicitly came out as a couple, I would still watch them because I find them entertaining, but there would be nothing really more to speculate about. I find the mystery very intriguing.
I wasn't going to answer these questions, but the second set has drawn me out of lurking!
gohomohowell wrote:
1. Who do you really prefer out of Dan and Phil
If I had to pick I would pick Dan, I see parts of myself in both of them but more in Dan (although that also means the less great parts of my personality but oh well). I'm mostly here for their joint content because I like their chemistry but I feel that I would probably still enjoy Dan's channel and livestreams if Phil didn't exist.
2. How many times have you shared Lord Voldemort's best phan edit of all?
I've never shared it but I did search for it when I first found out about it and watch it a few times. I had it on my computer for a while before I deleted it out of guilt.
3. Do you like the dipper brothers being on Youtube or not? Do you ever want them to do more.... or less?
As pretty much everyone else has said, I love them being on youtube. I'm really happy with how much content they're putting out at the moment and I wouldn't really enjoy watching them do anything acting-related outside of youtube... I'd be happy for them but I couldn't watch it. I would love a podcast tho
4. If Dantru and Phollum came out separately disclosing non-straight sexualities, but not as being a couple, what would you think? Would you say that coming out as being in a gay couple is a bigger deal than coming out as non straight, or would you get annoyed and say that they're ship baiting etc.?
I see them as not really ever having been closeted, they never said they were straight. Dan especially has made it very very clear that he's not. I don't think they will ever make any explicit statements about sexuality, but can maybe see them confirming being a couple sometime in the future (maybe when leaving youtube?). If it turned out they weren't a couple, I wouldn't really care, they still have great chemistry and provide a great example of a platonic relationship that breaks norms for male friendships. I don't see how they could be accused of shipbaiting.
5. Have you ever stalked too far and found stuff that you shouldn't have? (Not talking about voldy here, other stuff such as addresses or full names etc.)
Kind of... I stumbled across some stuff accidentally about Adrian recently but I wish I hadn't as I have no desire to know family details or anything like where they live etc.
6. Most annoying thing about Danetrius and most annoying thing about Philesphical, go.
I don't find anything overly annoying about either of them but as most other people have said it would have to be the angel bean persona for Phil and Dan trying to be an edgelord. I don't find either of these things particularly bad though.
7. What's the average age on this site? (This is just me asking generally lmao, there must be a lot of people my age and younger but it seems they're the quiet and inactive minority/majority)
I'm 18
1. Do you want Dan to come out with a label? As bisexual, pansexual, anything like that? Do you secretly wish that he did so no one could ever reasonably think of him as straight again? Or are you really satisfied with how it is now, just picking up the hints and references? Do you agree with Dan not wanting any labels, or do you secretly think that's dumb and believe he must have a label that he's just not confident enough to share yet? Divulge, divulge :twisted:
I don't care if he does or doesn't, it's up to him and what he feels comfortable with.
But I kinda selfishly never want him to give an explicit label as he is a perfect role-model for what I've been trying to do with my sexuality for a few years (I'm trying to just live out and make my non-straightness obvious rather than come out and label myself in any way publicly). It's really nice to see someone else who appears to be doing the same.
There's quite a few reasons why he may not have divulged a label aside from not feeling confident enough to share. Here's a few:
He may disagree with the concept of coming out or having to make explicit statements about sexuality if straight people don't have to do it (this applies whether or not he has a specific label for himself)
He may feel that no label encompasses how he feels or just feel generally uncomfortable about being put into a box
He may not want to be treated differently (e.g. expected to be a spokesperson) if he says anything explicitly
His sexuality may be pretty low on the list of things he considers important about his identity and does not want it to be something that people think of when they think of him
There are plenty more possibilities... In the end I just don't really care if he ever does or doesn't provide us with a specific label for his sexuality.
2. Let's say, Dan and Phil come out as a couple. It's simple - a caption on an Instagram post calling each other boyfriends or a kiss on the cheek. But after that confirmation.... nothing happens. They act exactly the same, sit exactly the same distance apart and you won't ever get any public kisses or hugs out of them. Maybe it's out of habit for them, or they're afraid of the backlash or they feel uncomfortable with all the fetishizing teen girls, whatever. But would you lose interest or would you keep speculating? Would you watch their videos with as much vigor as before? Or would you abandon ship? Because this is something we reference a lot but never give our own answers to.
Um, you mean my dream?
I wouldn't stop watching just because of any explicit confirmation, I love them because they have really great chemistry together and I don't think that would change! I wouldn't care if they just carried on as they are and essentially just haru'd a confirmation like that, what I would have some trouble with would be if they regressed to a 2012 level of discomfit on camera. I think I would probably have to take a break from watching them if that happened. As super nice as it is to think about a confirmation happening though, I wouldn't care if they never did anything like this.
archived wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:47 pm
7. Older than it should be, I'm 16 and no offence but some people on here remind me of twilight mums.
I think I probably thought the same about older fans when I was 16, but as I've gotten older I've realised that you don't just magically become """an adult""" lol. Interests don't just disappear when you turn 18, and you don't just suddenly become interested in designated "sophisticated" adult things. Also, it makes sense that so many people in their 20s and 30s (and older!) are interested in Dan and Phil, as we're actually closer in age and life stage to Dan and Phil than teenagers are. Also, some of us have been here since we were teenagers (I was 16 when I first started watching), why should we have to just pack it all up and move on once we reach adulthood if our interest in them hasn't waned? With time, my opinions on Dan and Phil have matured and I've actually learned a lot about myself through them, and ultimately Dan and Phil are a great, lighthearted escape from uni, work and the hellscape that is 2017. There are no rules, let people enjoy what they enjoy regardless of age.
This comment made me want to reply when it came up but I couldn't find the right words, so thank you captainspacecoat for articulating something I wanted to say!
Not really news, but might as well say. Dan left a comment under Elliot's new video:
His comment under is "fucking hell deborah look what you're giving up"
(for context, Elliot made this video to go at the end of Tom's Last Week Vlog series, so there's a lot of inside jokes.)
edit: if it isn't apparent already, I love elliot
I think maybe I should expand on my offhand 'twilight mums' comment. I definitely agree that there is (generally) no age limit to being a fan of something, especially in the case of 'older' fans who have been fans since they were in their teens. I can relate to how many of you feel in some sense, I've been told I'm 'too old' to like certain films but also that I'm 'too young' to like certain music. That isn't what I'm talking about, I think sparkle articulated my thoughts best.
The 'twilight mums' comment was more about the obsessive behaviour and inability to see fault in something very problematic despite being mature enough to know better. This obviously includes the over sexualisation of characters, which does happen, often in the form of fanart and fanfiction. I saw a fanfiction once written by a woman in their twenties about 'teacher' Phil and 'student' Dan, so basically it was about statutory rape. Like that is obviously weird regardless of what age the author is but there is definitely something creepier about it if the author is an adult. Now I get that is a specific example and some would argue that in the end they used the characters of Dan and Phil instead of the actual people Dan and Phil but you get my point.
But really, I was referring less to that and more the idolisation of them. Of course it is perfectly natural for fans of people to see them through slightly rose-tinted glasses, everyone does. In the same way 'twilight mums' were either oblivious or just ignored the very obvious issues with the book, I feel like many fans on here skirt around certain issues that we should be addressing. I get this isn't a 'trash-talking' site (personally I don't think that label is entirely accurate but that is not the point) but even so. When someone has brought up an issue sometimes there is a bit of discussion but there are always people who completely disregard it, even excusing their actions. Now, the main question is why do I see this as a bigger issue about older fans over younger fans. As much as I would always advocate that age =/= maturity, it cannot be denied that there is a correlation. Kids are generally more naive because, as you said, we just haven't experienced as much.
I have more to say but honestly I'm not good at articulating my thoughts and quite frankly can't be bothered. I will say please take my comments with a pinch of salt, I do have the tendency to play devil's advocate as a way to spark discussion... or maybe I'm just a wanker.
1. For a long time, I could relate more to Dan. In 2011, when the whole existential crisis-stuff came up, I had very similar feelings (essentially a lot of teenage angst and existential panic regarding the future and my place in the world). There have been major changes for me. While the teenage angst is now pretty much gone, I'm left with a bunch of other stuff that still allow me to relate to Dan's older videos - but a lot less to his recent ones. And while I cannot relate to Phil in most situations, his videos don't serve that purpose for me since they are simply entertainment without too much afterthought, more something to take my mind off things than anything else. I don't have a favourite because I need the balance between both of them.
2. I've never seen that video, although I've read a transcript of it.
3. More videos would always be nice, especially on their individual channels, but in general, I'm okay with the amount of videos right now. I do hope that they plan on doing something different than Youtube, though. I can't see them continuing like this forever and I don't think that they will find it fulfilling neither.
4. I would be surprised that they announce it like that, but I probably wouldn't mind and wouldn't think much about it... I'm not really a phan-shipper, not because I don't think that they are a couple, but because I don't know it, don't really care about it and am not very interested in shipping.
5. No.
6. Same about both - they're repeating themselves and they are, at least in my opinion, stuck in personas that no longer fit them completely. I'd love seem them grow and try new stuff, new approaches, make creative videos like they used to do a few years ago... It's getting somewhat stale. But then, is that the fate of every Youtuber?
7. 21.
And the two others:
1. They don't need to come out as anything, neither Dan nor Phil. Hey, I've been to a Pride last weekend and I don't label myself as anything. The whole labeling-yourself-concept is definitely overrated imo.
2. I don't watch their videos because I ship them or want to catch some special glances or anything else, so I don't think that it would affect me and my viewing habits.
Regarding Twilight-mums:
When there was a big hype around Twilight, I used to think that those middle-aged women were extremely cringey, mainly because Twilight itself is cringey (I don't care who you are, if you're a fan of Twilight, I will judge you - sorry) and I always thought that the older you are, the more refined your taste should be and you shouldn't fall for something that is aimed at an impressible, young audience.
Well, SURPRISE - it doesn't work like that. People have different interests at different ages, but not everyone has the same interests at the same age. How boring would that be?!
I'm loving reading these questions and while atm I don't have time to answer all I wanted to put something in towards the age discussion.
I'm 16 which is definitely at the younger end of idb, and I like it. sometimes bc I'm young here I feel slightly self conscious of my opinions and how much it's my place to contribute which means I lurk a lot (but that's also due to me being fairly shy) what I love about idb and seeing older phandom member is the level of discourse is refreshing. Not to sound pretentious but I much enjoy the more level headed, considerate, thoughtful discussion here over Instagram, or twitter where there a more people my age. Not saying idb is the epitome of mature (dickscourse) but it's a noticeable difference.
The other thing I enjoy about seeing adult fandom members is that it shows me I don't have to lose interest in my favorite things as I grow older. Irl I feel pressure to grow up and think about adult things like college and jobs and that all freaks me out a little. I love having examples that I can mature and grow up while still being a crazy fan girls. So thank you to all you adults and older members.
archived wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:52 pm
I think maybe I should expand on my offhand 'twilight mums' comment. I definitely agree that there is (generally) no age limit to being a fan of something, especially in the case of 'older' fans who have been fans since they were in their teens. I can relate to how many of you feel in some sense, I've been told I'm 'too old' to like certain films but also that I'm 'too young' to like certain music. That isn't what I'm talking about, I think sparkle articulated my thoughts best.
The 'twilight mums' comment was more about the obsessive behaviour and inability to see fault in something very problematic despite being mature enough to know better. This obviously includes the over sexualisation of characters, which does happen, often in the form of fanart and fanfiction. I saw a fanfiction once written by a woman in their twenties about 'teacher' Phil and 'student' Dan, so basically it was about statutory rape. Like that is obviously weird regardless of what age the author is but there is definitely something creepier about it if the author is an adult. Now I get that is a specific example and some would argue that in the end they used the characters of Dan and Phil instead of the actual people Dan and Phil but you get my point.
But really, I was referring less to that and more the idolisation of them. Of course it is perfectly natural for fans of people to see them through slightly rose-tinted glasses, everyone does. In the same way 'twilight mums' were either oblivious or just ignored the very obvious issues with the book, I feel like many fans on here skirt around certain issues that we should be addressing. I get this isn't a 'trash-talking' site (personally I don't think that label is entirely accurate but that is not the point) but even so. When someone has brought up an issue sometimes there is a bit of discussion but there are always people who completely disregard it, even excusing their actions. Now, the main question is why do I see this as a bigger issue about older fans over younger fans. As much as I would always advocate that age =/= maturity, it cannot be denied that there is a correlation. Kids are generally more naive because, as you said, we just haven't experienced as much.
I have more to say but honestly I'm not good at articulating my thoughts and quite frankly can't be bothered. I will say please take my comments with a pinch of salt, I do have the tendency to play devil's advocate as a way to spark discussion... or maybe I'm just a wanker.
Glad you clarified - I think you definitely have a point. And i'm glad you didnt mean that you think that when we reach 18 we should all stop enjoying YouTube - gatekeeping is bullshit, and I'm glad you clarified on that specifically. I do think criticism of D&P is too easily moved past here - one of my biggest complaints with them at the moment is that I wish they'd stick to a schedule and a series of things I wish they'd do differently on the gaming channel. (I want Phil to complete Fallout 4, as Nate, and romance Paladin Danse for example - or even stream it unedited with no Dan).
Maybe a solution would be to have a criticism thread running alongside the main thread? So opinions could be expressed and not steam rolled? With the understanding that all opinions expressed are valid?
Saying that the reason that I'm here is because it's generally less drama than things like GG (I don't even mean the D&P thread here, I mean I lurk the Beckie0 threads daily because I hate her) and its sometimes nice to go somewhere on the internet where its generally more good vibes? But if that is at the expense of valid criticism thats not fair either.
gohomohowell wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:46 am
1. Do you want Dan to come out with a label? As bisexual, pansexual, anything like that? Do you secretly wish that he did so no one could ever reasonably think of him as straight again? Or are you really satisfied with how it is now, just picking up the hints and references? Do you agree with Dan not wanting any labels, or do you secretly think that's dumb and believe he must have a label that he's just not confident enough to share yet? Divulge, divulge :twisted:
I honestly hope he will never state how he labels himself, he is out already and imo that's enough. I love how he has handled it, he has made it clear he is not straight but hasn't actually talked about the topic that much, you just know how it is when you hear him talking about attractive people totally normally. I'm not a fan of official coming outs, as I personally just don't find it necessary? I mean if coming out by stating your sexuality makes you happy then you do that, good for you, there's nothing wrong about it! I'm just the kind of person who doesn't feel like I need to state my sexuality, it's just a small part of who I am and totally irrelevant to most people, I don't want to be labeled because of something that doesn't really change who I am as a person. I'm not hiding it though, I will express attraction openly, I just don't like to state my label because why should I.
I'm having the fucking shittiest day so why not, let's try to distract myself giving some opinions
gohomohowell wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:46 am
Two more optional questions:
1. Do you want Dan to come out with a label? As bisexual, pansexual, anything like that? Do you secretly wish that he did so no one could ever reasonably think of him as straight again? Or are you really satisfied with how it is now, just picking up the hints and references? Do you agree with Dan not wanting any labels, or do you secretly think that's dumb and believe he must have a label that he's just not confident enough to share yet? Divulge, divulge :twisted:
2. Let's say, Dan and Phil come out as a couple. It's simple - a caption on an Instagram post calling each other boyfriends or a kiss on the cheek. But after that confirmation.... nothing happens. They act exactly the same, sit exactly the same distance apart and you won't ever get any public kisses or hugs out of them. Maybe it's out of habit for them, or they're afraid of the backlash or they feel uncomfortable with all the fetishizing teen girls, whatever. But would you lose interest or would you keep speculating? Would you watch their videos with as much vigor as before? Or would you abandon ship? Because this is something we reference a lot but never give our own answers to.
1. The first thing that came into my mind is, why Dan? Why specifically ask about him? Not an attack, but this ties with the discussion from last night about Phil and the apparent lack of ability from the fandom to see him as someone with different layers. I know the fandom loves to talk about Dan and his distaste for labels, but it seems to me this applies to Phil as well - he is just as ambiguous as of lately, which more mentions and innuendos about males. It's interesting to me how everyone seems to almost expect Dan to be the LGBTQ+ idol between the two of them.
That said, I don't feel like I can give any reply that matter on this topic. I'm straight and I've never faced the doubt about labelling myself and what a coming out would mean. What I want doesn't matter. How Dan and Phil choose or not to label themselves don't matter to me, as long as they're comfortable and happy doing so. I want them to be happy, and confident, and safe in their own terms. I don't feel like I can ask anything of them and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so, not knowing what it feels like to feel pressured about it.
2. I wouldn't lose interest at all. If everything stayed the same, I'd be just as involved, maybe I'd wish for the occasional couply thing - a tweet, a random pic once a year, who knows? But I wouldn't expect anything else. That said, oh it'd be so nice to feel like I'm right
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and the beauty of Phil Lester.
gohomohowell wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:46 am
So, moving on, you're all being honest right? Because I'm getting answers that are a little too mature.... But maybe that's just me.
Why are you even rating people's answers like that in the first place? What kind of answers were you expecting?
Do you have a preconceived image of this place?
archived wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:52 pm
When someone has brought up an issue sometimes there is a bit of discussion but there are always people who completely disregard it, even excusing their actions.
It's not really a hivemind where everybody has to agree or give their opinion on every subject that has been brought up.
Some people might disregard some topics because the same discussion has happened before, or it keeps repeating, and they've already given their opinion on it, or they are just not interested in that type of debate at all.
Or simply, people have very different life experiences and perspective on things and what to you might seem like a big issue to others might seem like a non-issue.
Last edited by malday on Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1. I am pretty satisfied with Dan's current no labeling, coupled with being more open to talking generally about gender/sexuality/queerness in his liveshows. I want him to do whatever is comfortable for him. I just wish he wasn't so uncomfortable in the past. He not only answered no to being gay in liveshows (sometimes adding that he liked boobs or vaginas) but also said things along the lines of not batting for that team *and* implying if the person who asked him was gay and wanted him to be gay too, they could just rufie him. You know, the type of 2012 answers that have me shouting "fuck you" at the screen. No, he might not have used the word "straight", but that's damn close and problematic on multiple levels.
As for Phil, he's the one who has stuck to bisexual, but prefers not to label since 2009. He has never done anything to contradict that (that I'm aware of) he has just chosen to keep it private on YouTube and I respect him for that. I have no beef with Phil there. The only time I have been bothered were on occasions he outright said he was single (but those were mostly in or around dating specials they did for the radio and what not.) Either of them talking about their future wives unnerved me too. Wow, I really need to stop.
2. Simple Instagram confirmation would be ideal, with a progressively relaxed attitude and dropping any overt attempts at making things appear strictly platonic. No pda necessary, gaming vids and main vids just as they are, referring to each other just as "Dan" and as "Phil" in their liveshows. And of course I would keep watching. The mystery may be why I post a lot here, but I watch them for their chemistry and humor.
I would love an AP vid today.
Also I painted my nails "unicorn mist" yesterday, in honor of Dan's (I really wish I could say balls) golf ball. White undercoat with an iridescent top coat, which in direct light looks too pink, but in low or back light is an amazing pearlescent color. They are so not me, but I also love them.
Last edited by autumnhearth on Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think maybe I should expand on my offhand 'twilight mums' comment. I definitely agree that there is (generally) no age limit to being a fan of something, especially in the case of 'older' fans who have been fans since they were in their teens. I can relate to how many of you feel in some sense, I've been told I'm 'too old' to like certain films but also that I'm 'too young' to like certain music. That isn't what I'm talking about, I think sparkle articulated my thoughts best.
The 'twilight mums' comment was more about the obsessive behaviour and inability to see fault in something very problematic despite being mature enough to know better. This obviously includes the over sexualisation of characters, which does happen, often in the form of fanart and fanfiction. I saw a fanfiction once written by a woman in their twenties about 'teacher' Phil and 'student' Dan, so basically it was about statutory rape. Like that is obviously weird regardless of what age the author is but there is definitely something creepier about it if the author is an adult. Now I get that is a specific example and some would argue that in the end they used the characters of Dan and Phil instead of the actual people Dan and Phil but you get my point.
But really, I was referring less to that and more the idolisation of them. Of course it is perfectly natural for fans of people to see them through slightly rose-tinted glasses, everyone does. In the same way 'twilight mums' were either oblivious or just ignored the very obvious issues with the book, I feel like many fans on here skirt around certain issues that we should be addressing. I get this isn't a 'trash-talking' site (personally I don't think that label is entirely accurate but that is not the point) but even so. When someone has brought up an issue sometimes there is a bit of discussion but there are always people who completely disregard it, even excusing their actions. Now, the main question is why do I see this as a bigger issue about older fans over younger fans. As much as I would always advocate that age =/= maturity, it cannot be denied that there is a correlation. Kids are generally more naive because, as you said, we just haven't experienced as much.
I have more to say but honestly I'm not good at articulating my thoughts and quite frankly can't be bothered. I will say please take my comments with a pinch of salt, I do have the tendency to play devil's advocate as a way to spark discussion... or maybe I'm just a wanker.
Glad you clarified - I think you definitely have a point. And i'm glad you didnt mean that you think that when we reach 18 we should all stop enjoying YouTube - gatekeeping is bullshit, and I'm glad you clarified on that specifically. I do think criticism of D&P is too easily moved past here - one of my biggest complaints with them at the moment is that I wish they'd stick to a schedule and a series of things I wish they'd do differently on the gaming channel. (I want Phil to complete Fallout 4, as Nate, and romance Paladin Danse for example - or even stream it unedited with no Dan).
Maybe a solution would be to have a criticism thread running alongside the main thread? So opinions could be expressed and not steam rolled? With the understanding that all opinions expressed are valid?
Saying that the reason that I'm here is because it's generally less drama than things like GG (I don't even mean the D&P thread here, I mean I lurk the Beckie0 threads daily because I hate her) and its sometimes nice to go somewhere on the internet where its generally more good vibes? But if that is at the expense of valid criticism thats not fair either.
Lmao you can probably tell I use GG, I discovered this site by accident while on. It's funny you bring up the gaming channel because we were just talking about wanting new content on there because they seem to be playing the same sorts of games. I don't know about a criticism thread, I believe if something is major it should be brought up on the main thread and in the end that title seems misleading almost. I think more of a constructive criticism/ 'what do you want' from Dan and Phil thread. A thread where people can maybe be slightly more on the negative side but it is not just shit-talking, something that if Dan and Phil read it would actually help them. So in the thread people could talk about stuff like what they like/don't enjoy about the content and what they would like instead, maybe something they want D&P to address (eg, the phandoms behaviour). Does that make sense?
liola wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:26 pm
I'm having the fucking shittiest day so why not, let's try to distract myself giving some opinions
1. The first thing that came into my mind is, why Dan? Why specifically ask about him? Not an attack, but this ties with the discussion from last night about Phil and the apparent lack of ability from the fandom to see him as someone with different layers. I know the fandom loves to talk about Dan and his distaste for labels, but it seems to me this applies to Phil as well - he is just as ambiguous as of lately, which more mentions and innuendos about males. It's interesting to me how everyone seems to almost expect Dan to be the LGBTQ+ idol between the two of them.
I assume that question was about Dan because he's the one who referred to his sexuality as "blurry" in his diss track, and also in his liveshows talks about how you don't have to define your sexuality. He makes it clear that he's not straight while at the same time not really labeling himself, whereas Phil just never brings up the topic so we don't know what his opinions on labels are.
gohomohowell wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:46 am
So, moving on, you're all being honest right? Because I'm getting answers that are a little too mature.... But maybe that's just me.
Why are you even rating people's answers like that in the first place? What kind of answers were you expecting?
Do you have a preconceived image of this place?
My point is that the majority of answers here are scarily similar. I was hoping to see more diversity, especially since my questions seem to have brought out the lurkers + younger crowd. It doesn't matter what the content of the answers are - just how many people repeat them. I say they're too mature because it feels like people are holding back on both sides, as in they could go on about hating phan or demonly shipping phan and it wouldn't make a difference to me, just the fact that people aren't doing that. They just seem very... passive and neutral in genereal. But I do love you all a lot, I just found it surprising!
liola wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:26 pm
1. The first thing that came into my mind is, why Dan? Why specifically ask about him? Not an attack, but this ties with the discussion from last night about Phil and the apparent lack of ability from the fandom to see him as someone with different layers. I know the fandom loves to talk about Dan and his distaste for labels, but it seems to me this applies to Phil as well - he is just as ambiguous as of lately, which more mentions and innuendos about males. It's interesting to me how everyone seems to almost expect Dan to be the LGBTQ+ idol between the two of them.
i've already kind of answered this before, but basically, with my autism and all that boring shiz, I find it hard to pick up on subtlety. Like when people were saying Dan's defo non-straight, I was like.... tf? And Phil's even more ambiguous and private than Dan is! So, I don't know, there's more discussion on here about Dan so naturally I'm gonna ask people about him rather than the one I still don't understand why people are so sure he's non-straight about (Phew that was a long ass sentence).
Oh, I already see alch has answered that one for me, thanks!
But hey guys, I would love a criticism thread. Or even if there was just more allowance for people to vent about something without people quoting and making it a debate. Was that shady? I didn't mean for it to be.
Last edited by relatablemood on Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think maybe I should expand on my offhand 'twilight mums' comment. I definitely agree that there is (generally) no age limit to being a fan of something, especially in the case of 'older' fans who have been fans since they were in their teens. I can relate to how many of you feel in some sense, I've been told I'm 'too old' to like certain films but also that I'm 'too young' to like certain music. That isn't what I'm talking about, I think sparkle articulated my thoughts best.
The 'twilight mums' comment was more about the obsessive behaviour and inability to see fault in something very problematic despite being mature enough to know better. This obviously includes the over sexualisation of characters, which does happen, often in the form of fanart and fanfiction. I saw a fanfiction once written by a woman in their twenties about 'teacher' Phil and 'student' Dan, so basically it was about statutory rape. Like that is obviously weird regardless of what age the author is but there is definitely something creepier about it if the author is an adult. Now I get that is a specific example and some would argue that in the end they used the characters of Dan and Phil instead of the actual people Dan and Phil but you get my point.
But really, I was referring less to that and more the idolisation of them. Of course it is perfectly natural for fans of people to see them through slightly rose-tinted glasses, everyone does. In the same way 'twilight mums' were either oblivious or just ignored the very obvious issues with the book, I feel like many fans on here skirt around certain issues that we should be addressing. I get this isn't a 'trash-talking' site (personally I don't think that label is entirely accurate but that is not the point) but even so. When someone has brought up an issue sometimes there is a bit of discussion but there are always people who completely disregard it, even excusing their actions. Now, the main question is why do I see this as a bigger issue about older fans over younger fans. As much as I would always advocate that age =/= maturity, it cannot be denied that there is a correlation. Kids are generally more naive because, as you said, we just haven't experienced as much.
I have more to say but honestly I'm not good at articulating my thoughts and quite frankly can't be bothered. I will say please take my comments with a pinch of salt, I do have the tendency to play devil's advocate as a way to spark discussion... or maybe I'm just a wanker.
Glad you clarified - I think you definitely have a point. And i'm glad you didnt mean that you think that when we reach 18 we should all stop enjoying YouTube - gatekeeping is bullshit, and I'm glad you clarified on that specifically. I do think criticism of D&P is too easily moved past here - one of my biggest complaints with them at the moment is that I wish they'd stick to a schedule and a series of things I wish they'd do differently on the gaming channel. (I want Phil to complete Fallout 4, as Nate, and romance Paladin Danse for example - or even stream it unedited with no Dan).
Maybe a solution would be to have a criticism thread running alongside the main thread? So opinions could be expressed and not steam rolled? With the understanding that all opinions expressed are valid?
Saying that the reason that I'm here is because it's generally less drama than things like GG (I don't even mean the D&P thread here, I mean I lurk the Beckie0 threads daily because I hate her) and its sometimes nice to go somewhere on the internet where its generally more good vibes? But if that is at the expense of valid criticism thats not fair either.
Lmao you can probably tell I use GG, I discovered this site by accident while on. It's funny you bring up the gaming channel because we were just talking about wanting new content on there because they seem to be playing the same sorts of games. I don't know about a criticism thread, I believe if something is major it should be brought up on the main thread and in the end that title seems misleading almost. I think more of a constructive criticism/ 'what do you want' from Dan and Phil thread. A thread where people can maybe be slightly more on the negative side but it is not just shit-talking, something that if Dan and Phil read it would actually help them. So in the thread people could talk about stuff like what they like/don't enjoy about the content and what they would like instead, maybe something they want D&P to address (eg, the phandoms behaviour). Does that make sense?
(I genuinely only know you do because i've seen you in the Beckie0 threads )
There are so many games I'd like them to play because I love video games, like I'd love them to play Spy Party or Zelda or Portal, heck I'd love them to do what NerdCubed does (did idk) and play GTA challenges like trying to land a plane on a plane. But its flash games and Sims most of the time. My favourite DAPG videos have literally been golf and bombs (and yasuhati) and I'd love to see them do more content even like that. i've pretty much given up hope of seeing them play a series I'm actually interested in. I know theres Dream Daddy but I might play it (even though I'm not sure it'll run on my Mac) so I'm avoiding watching part 2 until I can decide if I'm going to play it.
Thats not a bad idea actually, like a somewhat meta constructive criticism thread thats separate from the main thread because that wouldn't derail discussion and would probably encourage it more because it would always be on-topic? I.e. wouldn't get derailed by a liveshow or new video.
liola wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:26 pm1. The first thing that came into my mind is, why Dan? Why specifically ask about him? Not an attack, but this ties with the discussion from last night about Phil and the apparent lack of ability from the fandom to see him as someone with different layers. I know the fandom loves to talk about Dan and his distaste for labels, but it seems to me this applies to Phil as well - he is just as ambiguous as of lately, which more mentions and innuendos about males. It's interesting to me how everyone seems to almost expect Dan to be the LGBTQ+ idol between the two of them.
this is something I kind of wanted to ask, but decided that I'd rather not (because, like it's been mentioned and clarified already, I assumed that since the question was mainly about labels and Dan is the one who's been talking about not wanting to label himself, the focus of it [the question] was made on him), but I totally agree with you. Phil has been liking some very interesting things on twitter lately:
and lmao idk what to think of this, but it's funny
these are all jokes, of course, but not just jokes.
and out of the two of them, it's Phil who has never gone back on his 2009 statements RE: his sexuality. which were:
oh and btw, I hope your day gets better
I'm not too clear on how a criticism thread is supposed to work without weirdly splitting the conversation? Like each video, each liveshow, brings up criticism, new merch brings up criticism- the main thread is for everything, currently on-topic or not, so current criticism tends to go there. Are people supposed to save anything remotely negative for the other thread? Say they bring out new Japan merch next week, where's the conversation supposed to happen when a good chunk of it would be critical..? It would just result in mostly identical conversations happening at the same time in two threads. Unless the criticism thread is supposed to be like 'this is what I always have and always will dislike about them regardless of any developing current events'..?
Thanks for sharing those goingbackto505. Speaking of Phil liking/sharing things on social media, has everyone seen the multi panel art Phil reblogged on Tumblr last night?
I love it, and that it's not specific to the most recent video of theirs (just Dan's "chicken!" incident.) It is a very Dan thing, and something I could see actually happening so to see Phil sharing it makes me very
(Boo, why does that embedding not work? Help, please!)
and that I was right. I would keep watching, because i'm not here for the ship, I tried to tell myself I'm only here because I want to see them confirm Phan and I felt like it was imminent - nope i'm here for good. Unless Dan gets on my tits again 
whereas if people had never mentioned it/linked to a brief description of it, i would have never gone looking for it?!
dan howell gives me life 
once in twenty lifetimes 
