Evan Edinger

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fancybum
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It does make sense, but I think what Evan was talking about, and what everyone's responding to and discussing, is definitely about much more than viewers just wanting a tweet or something when creators go off-schedule. It's about viewers wanting to define creator's jobs for them and expecting an unreasonable amount of deference for being fans. Obviously nobody deserves support if they're just being an outright dick for the sake of it (which could be an entirely separate conversation as to whether their content deserves support imo..) but at the same time, I disagree that creators, inherently as part of their jobs, need to care about their fans.

They're putting out a product that viewers can consume or not- if they want to appear to care about their fans while doing so, then great! What a bonus on top of getting content from them that you enjoy. But the transaction is just that they put out a video on their end, and somebody watches it at the other end. If part of the strategy in getting people to watch and to keep watching is to 'care' about their viewers, then okay good for everybody involved. But what does 'caring' even mean, beyond putting out a product the creator feels is enjoyable and worth being seen by others? If they're not in a space (for literally any reason) that they feel they can accomplish that, is it uncaring to not put anything out until that situation changes? Is it uncaring to put themselves (so: their mental health, family, personal concerns, just anything) first ahead of countless anonymous strangers whose expectations they're unable to reach? Is caring saying 'thanks, love you guys!' as part of their sign-off in every video?

I don't know, I've been thinking about this with the whole Louise thing going on in her thread (so this isn't at all just directed at you onetruetrash, it's at the entire general conversation), and while she is being mostly insufferable garbage in the way she's handling the kind of thing Evan's talking about, her main point of 'I don't owe you anything' isn't incorrect. If people watch her videos: cool. If people buy her merch: cool. She put out a video and somebody watched it, she put a book out and somebody bought it- those are all transactions of something being given and then received. Imo, saying 'thank you for watching this video/buying my book' afterward is an extra thing that, while a nice gesture, isn't actually necessary. It's beyond the scope of the completed transaction. So I guess going that extra step is where 'caring' starts to get defined? But I do think it's an extra step and not quite part of the job description, especially as YTers/creators are molding their jobs to what they want them to be and there isn't actually just one static job description that everybody needs to follow. Looking to the most successful/productive/caring content creators and expecting everyone to follow their template ("X uploads 5x a week so why can't Y do the same?") is just guaranteed disappointment for everybody.
onetruetrash wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:10 am Sorry to double post, but I felt the need to add this and it's too late to edit my post. I think part of the things I said stem from the fact that I don't have the best views on Evan in the first place. I don't think all of the things I said can be applied to every situation. Every situation is different and every person is different. I don't think "you always should do this" and "you can never do this" rules can be applied here.
I don't really like Evan most days either so it actually pains me to agree this much with him :lol:
But yeah as I said above, this is all more of a general addition to the whole convo that started with Louise and things that have already been on my mind and I was feeling rambly.
Thanks and have a great day! Oil me
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captainspacecoat
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I agree with the idea that youtubers do not owe anyone an explanation regarding their upload schedule. I see frustrations like these frequently thrown around re: Dan's lack of uploads, and while I understand being a fan of someone and wishing for more content, I don't think these criticisms are justified and I think that ultimately a lot more compassion needs to be extended for the reasoning behind said lack of uploads. Usually, infrequent content is a result of a) lack of inspiration, b) health issues of some kind (whether mental or physical) or c) some other personal issues that are going on behind the scenes. All of those things are taxing to deal with, and none of them need to be disclosed to the audience. It's important to remember that while the role of 'Youtuber' as a profession is to entertain an audience, the actual human person behind the youtube channel does not exist solely to entertain/please/engage said audience.

However, not to make it all about Louise on Evan's thread, but with her it's all about humility. No, youtubers don't owe their audience anything (and vice versa). But I would argue that just in general, wealthy people would do well to stay humble and - while acknowledging their own efforts to succeed - also keep in mind that their success did not come about solely due to their own hard work. There was also likely a lot of luck involved, and also (in the case of celebrities/youtubers) that their success would not have occurred if not for their audience. That's my issue with attitudes like that of Louise recently (who I perceive to have been acting like an "ungrateful youtuber" lately) - while obviously public figures don't have to 'care about their fans', I find it very difficult to muster up even an ounce of respect for those that aren't humble/appreciative of their audience.
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fondsmiles
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onetruetrash wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 am I'm not saying that we need a video every time they don't upload, but just tweeting giving people a heads up or something can't be that hard. I don't know if this is making any sense.
I think this is an important part of our post: "it can't be that hard", are you saying, but maybe, it is. In my experience, if we talk to people with an open mind and try to understand them, you can actually always understand their reasoning.
Just a few examples for what could apply here: they don't want to put negativity on youtube because they think they have an obligation to make people's lives a little bit happier, so they only post happy things, and hold back on negativity without explanation to keep it positive. they are so severely depressed that they don't have the energy to explain themselves. they are ashamed of what they're feeling. they've been open in the past and experienced pain or a worsening of how they're feeling or just had any bad experiences with it. they can't find the right words. and so on...
there's always valid reasons behind why a person chooses to act the way they do, and yes, their behaviour might seem weird to us or hard to understand or we might even see that it has a negative effect on us or others and therefore call this behaviour out. but still, to that person, in that moment, it was reasonable and I think it's always important to acknowledge that.

also, thanks @fancybum for your post :stan: (same to @captainspacecoat, you two made excellent posts)

(I kinda didn't notice that there was another page so now my post feels a bit useless, oops)
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onetruetrash
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You all made really great points. I think my general dislike towards Evan kinda made me jump to conclusions that obviously don't apply to many situations.
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That quote from GG:

"I don't need a VALID REASON to take a break" lmao so it's okay if someone is just being lazy. For example, let's take Dodie. She just did VEDA and did 16 out of 31 days. How many mental health days does the girl need? If she really is that mentally ill, she needs way more than some "mental health days". I know she's busy and all of that, but then why did she even say she was gonna do VEDA in the first place? I also don't recall her giving any explanation as to why she failed at VEDA so horribly. Fans will begin to feel like she just doesn't care. Sure, go ahead, don't give a reason, but be prepared to lose fans because they don't wanna just be seen as a paycheck.

----

This is the derision of mental health that even people who think/say they understand will still come out with - as soon it affects work, you're not ill anymore or don't look ill enough. Everyone else always works harder than the one giving an unwelcome opinion. I've just managed to break the crap bringing me down for the last 3 months (and helping me stay unemployed since I got fired for the same health) because some techniques I'd forgotten about were in some old NLP recordings on YouTube. I looked it up cos I didn't have my iPod and even though the newer ones I'd been doing are great, they don't include the same things.

Having all the free time and wanting to make progress on a creative project, it's still hard to start some days with energy and motivation going up and down. Over the years the best habit I've made is avoiding stress, sadly at the expense of getting a lot done so if someone who is actually making things regularly needs a break, lay off. It isn't a case of being ill enough to be in bed for weeks and bouncing back to being forever 100% fine again, it's continual management and doing VEDA is easily tricky. A few of them intended to do it in August and having done it fully in April, found they couldn't do it again. I didn't see this moaning at Daniel Layton or Niki and Sammy. They probably all have haters, I've seen GG calling Daniel bland though nothing worse, but some get it worse than others and Dodie seems to attract derision for being sensitive or some such. Basically the very thing I identify with her (and Dan H) about, they hate, so that's just peachy :roll:
onetruetrash
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flarequake wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:22 am That quote from GG:

"I don't need a VALID REASON to take a break" lmao so it's okay if someone is just being lazy. For example, let's take Dodie. She just did VEDA and did 16 out of 31 days. How many mental health days does the girl need? If she really is that mentally ill, she needs way more than some "mental health days". I know she's busy and all of that, but then why did she even say she was gonna do VEDA in the first place? I also don't recall her giving any explanation as to why she failed at VEDA so horribly. Fans will begin to feel like she just doesn't care. Sure, go ahead, don't give a reason, but be prepared to lose fans because they don't wanna just be seen as a paycheck.

----

This is the derision of mental health that even people who think/say they understand will still come out with - as soon it affects work, you're not ill anymore or don't look ill enough. Everyone else always works harder than the one giving an unwelcome opinion. I've just managed to break the crap bringing me down for the last 3 months (and helping me stay unemployed since I got fired for the same health) because some techniques I'd forgotten about were in some old NLP recordings on YouTube. I looked it up cos I didn't have my iPod and even though the newer ones I'd been doing are great, they don't include the same things.

Having all the free time and wanting to make progress on a creative project, it's still hard to start some days with energy and motivation going up and down. Over the years the best habit I've made is avoiding stress, sadly at the expense of getting a lot done so if someone who is actually making things regularly needs a break, lay off. It isn't a case of being ill enough to be in bed for weeks and bouncing back to being forever 100% fine again, it's continual management and doing VEDA is easily tricky. A few of them intended to do it in August and having done it fully in April, found they couldn't do it again. I didn't see this moaning at Daniel Layton or Niki and Sammy. They probably all have haters, I've seen GG calling Daniel bland though nothing worse, but some get it worse than others and Dodie seems to attract derision for being sensitive or some such. Basically the very thing I identify with her (and Dan H) about, they hate, so that's just peachy :roll:
Yeah, I regret saying that. I don't even know what I was thinking tbh
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fondsmiles
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[Offtopic]
onetruetrash wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 pm You all made really great points. I think my general dislike towards Evan kinda made me jump to conclusions that obviously don't apply to many situations.
this is really not on the topic of evan anymore but i just wanted to say i think it's really cool that you took in arguments and are able to change your opinion. i appreciate stuff like this! i hope you're good :love2: [/Offtopic]
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onetruetrash
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fondsmiles wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:23 pm [Offtopic]
onetruetrash wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 pm You all made really great points. I think my general dislike towards Evan kinda made me jump to conclusions that obviously don't apply to many situations.
this is really not on the topic of evan anymore but i just wanted to say i think it's really cool that you took in arguments and are able to change your opinion. i appreciate stuff like this! i hope you're good :love2: [/Offtopic]
[Offtopic]Thank you! As much as I don't like to be wrong, everyone is at some point[/Offtopic]
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alittledizzy
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I'll be honest, I had literally no idea what this video was gonna be about before I hit play and I'm still neutral on the last 2/3 of it but that whole first chunk where he's talking really bluntly about the whole concept of fans treating public figures like tools they can use for social points is... kind of fascinating. As much as I often don't love Evan, I really appreciate the honesty and perspective there.
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That was admirably honest. It's rare to see a youtuber discuss fan behaviour negatively without going way over the top sugarcoating everything so it doesn't sound like their really saying something bad about their fans.

That being said I do think some of things he talks about (people pushing in, hogging face time, shoving cameras in his face etc) is 100% stuff he should have been prepared for when he arranged to have unofficial meet ups with fans and he probably just shouldn't have them if he can't deal with that type of behaviour.

To be clear I'm not defending fans behaving that way and I personally do think it's refreshing he actually calls people out when they do stuff like that but surely them getting offended by this and trashing him on the internet was the obvious way that was going to end?

Yes it would be lovely if people were all polite and respectful... but I don't even think the most naive of "famous" people would expect this to be the case when they arrange to meet a group of their own fans in a public location with no form of security.
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dc34
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I'm alright with Evan, his fanboying is kinda cringe but at least the dude owns it which I can respect.
Anyway, I was super impressed with his tanacon video which I can't link since I'm on mobile. I honestly recommend watching that video instead of shane's 3 parter, cause I had many problems with it. He sums up the situation nicely and quickly and basically isn't biased
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