PewDiePie

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Re: PewDiePie

Post by pleasehelpme » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:48 am

(now i wait with bated breath for dan to make a wishywashy comment in his ls on how we shouldn't judge people and we should always give people a second chance and felix is actually a really good friend of mine)[/quote]

Tbh I don't think dan would defend Felix in this kinda scenario like he called Felix "everyone's favourite problematic dad" I don't think he would be all like "guys it's just a joke calm down" he'd be more like "don't know don't care" or "out of the loop but don't wanna weigh my opinion in"



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Re: PewDiePie

Post by mio » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:00 am

:sideeye: :sideeye: :sideeye:

This is all getting worse and worse...
The Phillip DiFranco video is just plain nonsense. Sorry but he really isn't good at complex political analysis. His videos are fine for superficial youtube drama, but as soon as some kind of critical thinking is involved to understand a situation, his opinions just suck. A lot of his other videos from that same ignorant point of view irked me that way in the past.

Also, since when is comedy all about "pushing the boundries"? There is tons of brilliant humor out there that doesn't need to do that, or if it does, does so respectfully. If your only asset is provocation, that's nothing to be proud if really.

I feel tired of repeating the same old points over again, there have been a lot of great posts from people in this thread explaining why using Nazi symbolism, rascism and stuff like that is bad even if you "didn't mean it that way", and also why Felix painting himself as the victim of the press is just plain hypocritical.

Still I'm curious sentinel, what exactly do you mean by your post?
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by nephilimcat » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:13 am

captainspacecoat wrote:I just find it so strange that even some of the most politically-informed, left-leaning youtubers are still excusing him:

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I have no doubt that if pewdiepie wasn't a youtuber Hank Green would have no qualms about critiquing his behaviour. I don't understand how someone who is generally quite reasonable can miss the point so badly: it's not even about whether Felix actually believes what he's saying (I don't think he does) it's about the fact that it is literally dangerous to make anti-semitic comments, especially in today's political climate. Regardless of his intent, he is making jokes that play into the rise of neo-Nazism and that justify anti-Semitic language/beliefs. There are people in his comments who genuinely praise him for this behaviour, who don't give a shit whether or not he's serious but simply see the most popular youtuber essentially validating/justifying their anti-semitism.

Why is it that other youtubers are so hesitant to call him out? And I understand that there are many youtubers that never involve themselves in youtube drama, but Hank Green is someone who involves himself openly with politics and social justice, so it just feels so strange and disappointing to me that he feels the need to defend Felix, given that I can't see him defending someone in traditional media the same way.
I saw a tweet from a German YouTuber who mentioned that the media likes to treat "Internet people" like shit as if there wasn't actually a reason to call PewDiePie out. He even mentioned that there are people online who produce "art" that is supposed to have a message. Yes, there are, but you can't tell me that PewDiePie is someone like that. And I'd like to add that the YouTuber I am talking about seems to be very politically informed and makes a lot of interesting videos, so I was a bit surprised, to say the least.

And I wondered, is that the reason? Do they not want to admit that the YouTube channel with the most subscribers in the world could be condoning racists because that would make them look bad as well?
My first assumption was that they are afraid to go against such a huge channel, but if they were, they would just shut up and say nothing at all. I mean, they can't all be blind! I don't understand what PewDiePie has that makes a lot of people defend him that I never expected to defend someone like him.

And honestly, I haven't watched most of his videos but if someone is celebrated by nazis, you can't excuse that person's behaviour anymore. Stop defending people just because they are rich, famous and/or your peers :sideeye:
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by JLynne » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:07 pm

I'm wondering how much of this whole situation is due to cultural disparities. Felix is a Swede, living in a homogeneous area of England. I'm not saying that excuses bad behavior, but I think it might be useful to consider the demographic, cultural and social differences-- not everyone is outraged by the same thing. Outrage and "sensitivity threshold" are dependent on where you're from, what you're surrounded by, and social circles. For example, I grew up in a very affluent, homogeneous area in Virginia. Kids at school would tell holocaust jokes (you know the ones) and people would laugh because anti-semitism wasn't real to them-- they hadn't seen it, hadn't known anyone who suffered from it, and the Holocaust was a long-ago period they learned about in history books. It wasn't present to them, so they didn't understand that it was still an issue. Was it wrong? Yeah, but they just saw it as an "edgy" joke that didn't actually hurt anyone.

Should Felix have known better? Sure, but he's never been in the business of considering political and social ramifications. He talks about what he knows, which is ignorant, but no one is completely innocent of that. He just has a very, very large stage and a bullhorn. He took the joke too far, but I'm not going to crucify him for it. Because at the end of the day, he's a decent person who does great things for charity. Like Hank Green said, I don't see the point in piling on someone who says stupid things but doesn't mean them and is more or less harmless. He has a big mouth and should educate himself on what's too far, but I'm not going to say "OMFG he's the problem in society!!!"

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Re: PewDiePie

Post by malday » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:37 pm

For a apolitical content creator, he's liking tweets from some very sketchy(and political) people. Guess he needs all the help he can get.
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by malday » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:58 pm

and re-tweeting some, guess a re-brand is coming.
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by mio » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:41 pm

@ JLynne the problem most people (here) have with him isn't that he was uneducated and made a mistake once and that's it. It's how he reacted when being made aware of how dangerous this kind of retoric is (and this isn't about being offended anymore. In the current political climate this kind of behaviour leads the alt-right to feel validated which then leads to actual IRL harrassment and violence against marginalized groups).

It's obvious that a cis-guy from a northern european country isn't aware of the struggles many other people face. But when these people call him out he should listen and react accordingly instead of getting defensive and displaying the same shitty behaviour over and over again.
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by Katka » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:47 pm

sentinel wrote: Also, I don't get why a certain group should be protected. By that logic, the "WE MUST RETAKE CONSTANTINOPLE" meme is offensive to the Turkish people because it promotes the invasion of their country.
To say it with Pewdiepie’s own words: Context matters. His jokes don’t exist in a vacuum. I suppose you’ve heard of the Shoa, right? That’s only about seventy years ago. Some survivors are still alive. Anti-Semitism is still rampant in many western countries and beyond. So no, this isn’t about protecting certain “groups”. This is about the political context jokes like his jokes can never be separated from. Besides I don’t get how “Death to all xxx” is funny to anyone, no matter what ethnic or religious group it’s aimed at. How is that funny? How is that even a joke?
captainspacecoat wrote:I have no doubt that if pewdiepie wasn't a youtuber Hank Green would have no qualms about critiquing his behaviour. I don't understand how someone who is generally quite reasonable can miss the point so badly: it's not even about whether Felix actually believes what he's saying (I don't think he does) it's about the fact that it is literally dangerous to make anti-semitic comments, especially in today's political climate. Regardless of his intent, he is making jokes that play into the rise of neo-Nazism and that justify anti-Semitic language/beliefs. There are people in his comments who genuinely praise him for this behaviour, who don't give a shit whether or not he's serious but simply see the most popular youtuber essentially validating/justifying their anti-semitism.
I can't help but wonder if people would defend him like this if it had been "all black people" or "all Muslims" instead of "all Jews". People underestimate anti-semitism a lot because they consider Jewish people to be white and therefore to have white privilege. I really think Felix is getting away with this the way he does because people don't take anti-semitism as seriously as they should. They don't realise how much hatred Jewish people face. Maybe I'm completely off and I don't want to stick my neck out here since I'm not Jewish myself but I feel like many people don't take the discrimination Jewish people face seriously. Like... at all.
mio wrote:Also, since when is comedy all about "pushing the boundries"? There is tons of brilliant humor out there that doesn't need to do that, or if it does, does so respectfully. If your only asset is provocation, that's nothing to be proud if really.
I agree so much! People still haven't learnt that humour and satire are supposed to aim upwards, not downwards. Using comedy to spew hate speech is so low but people pretend like it's brave and edgy. It's just really gross.
JLynne wrote:I'm wondering how much of this whole situation is due to cultural disparities. Felix is a Swede, living in a homogeneous area of England. I'm not saying that excuses bad behavior, but I think it might be useful to consider the demographic, cultural and social differences-- not everyone is outraged by the same thing. Outrage and "sensitivity threshold" are dependent on where you're from, what you're surrounded by, and social circles.
This is an interesting thought but I'm not sure it's applicable here. Scandinavia is pretty close to Germany. This isn't something to us that happened long ago in some far away place, it's something that happened just 70 years ago in a country that's practically a neighbour. Scandinavian cities have Holocaust memorials, it's present in history class and it's part of it: Norwegian Jews were also deported to concentration camps and many of them fled to Sweden because it was neutral. These poor people faced a lot of discrimination and anti-semitism once they arrived in Sweden and there's still a lot of that going around today. Scandinavians can be horribly racist and anti-semitic since it is basically rooted in Scandinavia's history which is why I never questioned why Felix would think he was being funny. In conclusion: To Scandinavians the Holocaust isn't something that happened far away to someone else like it might seem to Americans.The Holocaust affected Scandinavia directly and Felix would know that.

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Re: PewDiePie

Post by sentinel » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:51 pm

Birdie wrote:
sentinel wrote: Also, I don't get why a certain group should be protected. By that logic, the "WE MUST RETAKE CONSTANTINOPLE" meme is offensive to the Turkish people because it promotes the invasion of their country.
To say it with Pewdiepie’s own words: Context matters. His jokes don’t exist in a vacuum. I suppose you’ve heard of the Shoa, right? That’s only about seventy years ago. Some survivors are still alive. Anti-Semitism is still rampant in many western countries and beyond. So no, this isn’t about protecting certain “groups”. This is about the political context jokes like his jokes can never be separated from. Besides I don’t get how “Death to all xxx” is funny to anyone, no matter what ethnic or religious group it’s aimed at. How is that funny? How is that even a joke?
Yeah I have, it's almost as if I'm an adult in Europe. Is the joke unfunny and in poor taste? Absolutely. However, like you said, it doesn't exist in vacuum. The altright is anti-semitic sure, but you can't hold him accountable for their actions when he explicitly said he isn't an anti semite, condemned them and frequently collaborates with the most prominent Jewish creators on the site. The broad political context matters of course, but the thing is - they are an extremely loud minority gaining traction on the ones who feel neglected by traditional politics. I, of course, realize my opinion might not be the popular one on this forum and that's fine, I'm not trying to force it on anyone.
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by Afunnyworld » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:27 pm

sentinel wrote:
Birdie wrote:
To say it with Pewdiepie’s own words: Context matters. His jokes don’t exist in a vacuum. I suppose you’ve heard of the Shoa, right? That’s only about seventy years ago. Some survivors are still alive. Anti-Semitism is still rampant in many western countries and beyond. So no, this isn’t about protecting certain “groups”. This is about the political context jokes like his jokes can never be separated from. Besides I don’t get how “Death to all xxx” is funny to anyone, no matter what ethnic or religious group it’s aimed at. How is that funny? How is that even a joke?
Yeah I have, it's almost as if I'm an adult in Europe. Is the joke unfunny and in poor taste? Absolutely. However, like you said, it doesn't exist in vacuum. The altright is anti-semitic sure, but you can't hold him accountable for their actions when he explicitly said he isn't an anti semite, condemned them and frequently collaborates with the most prominent Jewish creators on the site. The broad political context matters of course, but the thing is - they are an extremely loud minority gaining traction on the ones who feel neglected by traditional politics. I, of course, realize my opinion might not be the popular one on this forum and that's fine, I'm not trying to force it on anyone.
I somewhat agree with this. I was never really upset of offended by what he did since to me it felt clearly satirical, but since it did have a negative effect, I was only upset that he kept refusing to apologize. Now that he has apologized and recognized the problem, I see that he was just ignorant of what problems he actually caused, even if he did only realize it when it affected him personally.
I agree that you can't hold him accountable for the actions of others, but they did come about as an effect of what he did so
I disagree that the joke has no humor to it, the original 'death to all Jews' clip was disturbing, but imo it did have some ironic humor. The real problem was that he took the joke way to far, and went to far to justify his actions.
Now that he has acknowledged the problem, I don't see reason to completely dismiss him as a totally hateful, uncaring person, and never watch him again. I see why a lot of people are upset, but I personally don't mind forgiving him & looking past his mistakes, so I will probably continue watching his videos.

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Re: PewDiePie

Post by Sakura Selfie » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:45 pm

The thing that interests me is he actually knows what it's like to be discriminated against, he was evicted from his apartment partially because his landlord thought he was gay so he knows first hand what it's like to be discriminated against for being part of a minority (even if he isn't part of that minority) he kicked and screamed for ages about that,when someone actually mistook him for part of a minority and he faced the consequences of real discrimination he was not happy at all. I wish he'd remember that and actually own up to his actions instead of a half arsed "I'm sorry youre offended" rather than "I'm sorry I'm offensive" which is what that video was to me.
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by Amiaw » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:20 pm

The thing that bothers me the most about this whole situation is that some of the same people defending him are very vocal about their dislike of trump and also have posted things about blm, etc and it could be true that they support the idea of these movements but you can't cherry pick what minorities to support while completely disregarding others.

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Re: PewDiePie

Post by ismelindsey » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:18 pm

I just feel like unfollowing and unsubbing from everyone who defends him but at the same time I really dont wanna unsub from people who make me laugh so much. UGH! I hate Pewdiepie so freaking much. I so hoped his channel would die cause of the racism. But tbh he was always super abliest.
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by Ticia » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:40 pm

Markiplier's response to the Pewdiepie issue:

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Re: PewDiePie

Post by daphenaxa » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:57 pm

i don't know if you guys read this article from wired that i believe Pewdipie discusses in his video (dunno won't watch it) i think it is interesting :
If you’re attracted to somebody, you’ll want them to sniff you eventually - Dan
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by Katka » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:08 am

sentinel wrote:Yeah I have, it's almost as if I'm an adult in Europe. Is the joke unfunny and in poor taste? Absolutely. However, like you said, it doesn't exist in vacuum. The altright is anti-semitic sure, but you can't hold him accountable for their actions when he explicitly said he isn't an anti semite, condemned them and frequently collaborates with the most prominent Jewish creators on the site. The broad political context matters of course, but the thing is - they are an extremely loud minority gaining traction on the ones who feel neglected by traditional politics. I, of course, realize my opinion might not be the popular one on this forum and that's fine, I'm not trying to force it on anyone.
The reason I don't understand this kind of argument is because... like, if I punched someone and later said I had no intention of hurting them, I still punched them, right? And that must've hurt them, no matter my intentions. And it's the same with hate speech. He says he's not an anti-semite but he makes anti-semitic jokes that resonate with a certain kind of people. I believe him when he says he doesn't mean it and isn't an anti-semite, but he still uses language as a weapon. We can't hold him accountable for what his nazi fans do and he might even mean it when he says he wants nothing to do with them but we can hold him accountable for making them feel validated via his "jokes" and also for normalising hate speech by making it "funny". But you're entitled to your opinion of course. I'm sorry I sounded harsh before, it was uncalled for.

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Re: PewDiePie

Post by notthatisabella » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:10 am

Ticia wrote:Markiplier's response to the Pewdiepie issue:

not to make my first post on here about the pewdiepie discourse, but this was SUCH a weak and ignorant response to the situation at hand....... like you can spend a whole video talking about respecting a man who actively disrespects minorities (jewish people specifically)??

but i mean, i shouldn't expect anything else because all of the yt community is so far up pewdipie's ass lol

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Re: PewDiePie

Post by CallMeAyana » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:13 am

...He should really just shut his trap. Intended or not, that's not the case - the case is that people are getting offended, and there are people out there who is getting influenced by his "jokes" and think that it's alright to make jokes like that. I had a classmate who watches Pewdiepie often, and sometimes, he uses the n-word for no reason at all (or f*g), like, he'll randomly put it in a conversation. Even if he doesn't intend to offend anyone, he's still not excused for doing it. He already knows that he's offensive, but he still keeps on doing it. He should already know by now on how much influence he has.
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by malday » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:59 am

I like that this forum is not a hive mind, and all the opinions are nuanced and coming from various degrees of knowledge about the situation.

I knew the humor, knew he was joking and isn't an actual racist or antisemite but i can't buy the bullshit that he was ignorant of the reaction it would cause or the consequences, or even the audience it attracts.

That wsj article is slander click-bait garbage, but he is not exactly the victim he portrays himself to be either. And seeing some of his young fans, and other youtubers fall for it is annoying.

For the few months leading up to when maker dropped him, he was almost in a constant feedback loop with the media. He did something that the media would write about > then he made a video about the media writing about it, each time getting more views and subs.

That "deleting my channel at 50 million" stunt, with the help of the media attention, ended up giving him his most viewed videos in months.
Then the toy review kid video got attention, then the n word video, and then the fiverr antisemitic jokes one.
He also said he understood why a company (fiverr) wouldn't like those types of jokes on their platform, but didn't really apologize for it, and pushed on with more "jew" jokes.

Really, he traded "forced positivity for views"(after giving other youtubers shit for it) for controversy for views. The media attention was benefiting him until it screwed him.

His response is such unremorseful smug preachy shit, it just makes me believe he's an asshole.
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by sentinel » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:12 am

Birdie wrote: The reason I don't understand this kind of argument is because... like, if I punched someone and later said I had no intention of hurting them, I still punched them, right? And that must've hurt them, no matter my intentions. And it's the same with hate speech. He says he's not an anti-semite but he makes anti-semitic jokes that resonate with a certain kind of people. I believe him when he says he doesn't mean it and isn't an anti-semite, but he still uses language as a weapon. We can't hold him accountable for what his nazi fans do and he might even mean it when he says he wants nothing to do with them but we can hold him accountable for making them feel validated via his "jokes" and also for normalising hate speech by making it "funny". But you're entitled to your opinion of course. I'm sorry I sounded harsh before, it was uncalled for.
This is a false equivalency imo. If you punched someone too hard, then said "I am sorry" and "please don't punch them other people" you are not responsible for everyone who thought "well, if he can punch them, so can I!"
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by Ticia » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:29 am

Warning: long controversial opinion ahead, written by a person from a minority*.
* Just in case anyone feels like delegitimizing my opinion by saying I'm a cis straight white woman.

I've watched Pewdiepie for years. Not only for the last year, when he turned his Internet persona way more ironic, cynic, and rude, but for more or less 4 years now. Some people like to call him now "a FilthyFrank copy cat", and I only think of the irony of people mostly knowing that name because everybody keeps calling Pewdiepie like that.

Yes, he is a white man from Sweden, with proper educational and family background. He should know better. He should be aware (and I'm pretty sure he knows) of the toughness of being a minority, or an immigrant, or simply not being a cis white straight man. He should specifically know (and, again, I'm pretty sure he knows) the historical, worldwide persecution of the Jewish people. That's a given.

And yet, one thing is Pewdiepie, an Internet clown with a sense of humor from your best 12 years old lol random edgy local boy who just discovered 4chan, and another thing is Felix. And I believe that's the point Markiplier, and other Youtubers, that many simply disregard at "sucking it up for the Youtube king".

Pewdiepie, the one that one month ago made a video where he paid $5 to two guys to say "Death to all Jews". Mind you, two guys that could've rejected the request, and also magically lost their ability to speak the most basic English to understand 4 words and later on could explain why they didn't know any better with a great level of English. Pewdiepie, also the one that refers to his foreigner friend as Romanian, and jokes about Guantanamo and the Irish Great Famine, and a long etcetera. In my book, he has done equally as bad in other occasions, but to me it's a mystery why his evilness hasn't blown up until now.

Pewdiepie, who also claimed he was going to delete his Youtube channel, just for it to be a prank with the purpose of letting everybody know there was a charity campaign going on. The Revelmode group raised more than 1 million dollars, and there's going to be another charity campaign soon. It is just an example of other "oh, that's not bad" things he has done, and yes, undoubtedly that doesn't cancel his shitty sense of humor and overall Internet persona, but to me it means there's more in here than a white man that, according to the press, he is the current God of the Nazi side of the Internet.

There's also Felix, who has made video responses on this specific matter, saying he was sorry-but-not-sorry. He also claimed he was not racist nor antisemitic. And I guess I'll have to believe him instead of a lousy WSJ article, and accept that he is just rude and immorally makes money out of the global insensitiveness we all suffer.

There's also Felix, who found a WSJ article where the situation was told without any context, whatsoever, and instead of trying to get his response/comments/opinion before publishing it, WSJ actively went and looked forward to severing his main business ties. Don't worry for WSJ, it is doing just fine: its article got shared everywhere and used by other press. Maybe it didn't generate enough money for its standards, seeing that yesterday went to Felix's house (not his office, his house) to try and get now his response. Gotta keep the $$$ flowing in, I guess.

Maybe it's my Christian mindset, but I'm not in a superior moral ground to determine whether someone is sufficiently regretful. What I know is that treating a person (not an Internet persona, a person) like the liquid at the bottom of a trashcan is not the right thing to do either.

In conclusion: Pewdiepie has had this downright insensitive and stupid sense of humor for a fairly long time, it's "old news" even for WSJ. It is more complex than a white man paying people to say 'Death to all Jews' and, like some people have already said here in the thread, context do matter. If I don't like him, I can always go watch another Youtuber, just like I don't visit 4chan.
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by Susannah » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:51 pm

Ticia wrote:Warning: long controversial opinion ahead, written by a person from a minority*.
* Just in case anyone feels like delegitimizing my opinion by saying I'm a cis straight white woman.

I've watched Pewdiepie for years. Not only for the last year, when he turned his Internet persona way more ironic, cynic, and rude, but for more or less 4 years now. Some people like to call him now "a FilthyFrank copy cat", and I only think of the irony of people mostly knowing that name because everybody keeps calling Pewdiepie like that.

Yes, he is a white man from Sweden, with proper educational and family background. He should know better. He should be aware (and I'm pretty sure he knows) of the toughness of being a minority, or an immigrant, or simply not being a cis white straight man. He should specifically know (and, again, I'm pretty sure he knows) the historical, worldwide persecution of the Jewish people. That's a given.

And yet, one thing is Pewdiepie, an Internet clown with a sense of humor from your best 12 years old lol random edgy local boy who just discovered 4chan, and another thing is Felix. And I believe that's the point Markiplier, and other Youtubers, that many simply disregard at "sucking it up for the Youtube king".

Pewdiepie, the one that one month ago made a video where he paid $5 to two guys to say "Death to all Jews". Mind you, two guys that could've rejected the request, and also magically lost their ability to speak the most basic English to understand 4 words and later on could explain why they didn't know any better with a great level of English. Pewdiepie, also the one that refers to his foreigner friend as Romanian, and jokes about Guantanamo and the Irish Great Famine, and a long etcetera. In my book, he has done equally as bad in other occasions, but to me it's a mystery why his evilness hasn't blown up until now.

Pewdiepie, who also claimed he was going to delete his Youtube channel, just for it to be a prank with the purpose of letting everybody know there was a charity campaign going on. The Revelmode group raised more than 1 million dollars, and there's going to be another charity campaign soon. It is just an example of other "oh, that's not bad" things he has done, and yes, undoubtedly that doesn't cancel his shitty sense of humor and overall Internet persona, but to me it means there's more in here than a white man that, according to the press, he is the current God of the Nazi side of the Internet.

There's also Felix, who has made video responses on this specific matter, saying he was sorry-but-not-sorry. He also claimed he was not racist nor antisemitic. And I guess I'll have to believe him instead of a lousy WSJ article, and accept that he is just rude and immorally makes money out of the global insensitiveness we all suffer.

There's also Felix, who found a WSJ article where the situation was told without any context, whatsoever, and instead of trying to get his response/comments/opinion before publishing it, WSJ actively went and looked forward to severing his main business ties. Don't worry for WSJ, it is doing just fine: its article got shared everywhere and used by other press. Maybe it didn't generate enough money for its standards, seeing that yesterday went to Felix's house (not his office, his house) to try and get now his response. Gotta keep the $$$ flowing in, I guess.

Maybe it's my Christian mindset, but I'm not in a superior moral ground to determine whether someone is sufficiently regretful. What I know is that treating a person (not an Internet persona, a person) like the liquid at the bottom of a trashcan is not the right thing to do either.

In conclusion: Pewdiepie has had this downright insensitive and stupid sense of humor for a fairly long time, it's "old news" even for WSJ. It is more complex than a white man paying people to say 'Death to all Jews' and, like some people have already said here in the thread, context do matter. If I don't like him, I can always go watch another Youtuber, just like I don't visit 4chan.
I have been having trouble deciding what to make of this whole pewdiepie mess (btw, i am Christian, and not white), but i find this post really really thought out and interesting and out of what i've read on this thread so far, it's the one i agree with the most. Bandwagon slander, whether or not they deserved it (and imo i don't think it is up to any of us to judge that, or to take it upon ourselves to treat people like the scum of the earth) has always rubbed me the wrong way. I am still unsure about any concrete opinions (though i def believe his actions were not right and were born of ignorance), but i most relate to this part:
Ticia wrote:Maybe it's my Christian mindset, but I'm not in a superior moral ground to determine whether someone is sufficiently regretful. What I know is that treating a person (not an Internet persona, a person) like the liquid at the bottom of a trashcan is not the right thing to do either.
:omgsomuch: deppyshows - sap & radio show doc / liveshow doc / liveshow stats :omgsomuch:
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lefthandedism
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by lefthandedism » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:27 pm

Thanks, Ticia, for a great post and well thought out analysis! The point you make about not being quick to judge until you at least look at all sides of an issue is an important one.

I've only watched a few of Pewdiepie's videos because I find them boring and/or offensive (the one he did about Deppy having sex was really ugh ), but that's not a good enough excuse to want him get taken down. There's always more to the story!
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by kuensukki » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:45 pm

All these posts about understanding him and how he is different from his actual pewdiepie persona is shocking to me. To me it seems as if people are trying to justify the things he's said and done and even to a point defend it because he's not all that bad. (this is not an attack to your post Tic (ily) just another interpretation)

When I watched the video he made where he tried to wear a soft color and speak in a soft tone while opening his blue eyes, I knew people would be goners. I knew there would be people popping up saying he didn't deserve this and he was "joe-king". And he achieve that, in a brilliant way, I should add. He took attention away from what he did, told people that it's not everyones cup of tea (hmm didn't know racism was subjective) then used the rest of the video to rant about the media. Honestly, Trumps doing this right now so I see no difference. Was the article utter shit? Yes. Do I think he actually is anti-Semitic, no. I don't agree or support the article nor did I laugh an "evil laugh" because his show got dropped (moreso because people lost their jobs). BUT, his racist slurs would eventually catch up to him, so it did.

I honestly had hoped something like this would have happened sooner where a well respected media outlet exposed his channel for all the slurs, comments, and racism it contained and discussed the negative influence and community he was building. Because that stuff is toxic and very influential. My brother used faggot once because he saw Pewdiepie do it. It's toxic because he is so influential to a group of young boys and girls that are finding themselves and tend to mirror who they watch. Dont tell me after watching deppy you haven't used some of their phrases or their mannerisms. It's proven in psychology that it happen. Yet, Pewdiepie used the word n****r in his video and got away with it. And people justified it by saying he didn't have an intent behind it, but instead was joking. How the fuck do we know that? How do we not know that pewdiepie actively uses that word in his free time, do we know anything more about him then what he chooses to put out, NO. Disney didn't care, they didn't drop him because of it. A white man using that word as a means of being edgy, (despite the horrible history that word has) yet everyone continued living. I thought that atleast then, he would face repercussions, but no, he got away with it scratch free.

He's normalizing these behaviors and saying that it is okay to say those slurs if it's under the guise of being a joke. He's perpetuating a harmful environment. I know and get dark humor, but that is not what he does. And there's a place and time and a line for those things which he has crossed time and time again. It's not being edgy or funny, nor is there a different person behind the pewdiepie mask. He knows what he's doing, he is aware of the slurs (I laughed out loud when someone on here implied that he didn't) yet he continuously supports and actively creates a safe space for those to be racist openly without having to suffer from it. Look through his comments and theyre a mix of trump supporters, people who laugh at slurs and homophobic douches. They all feel comfortable to be as loud and hurtful as they want because he can do it and get away with it.

So yea fuck him. And fuck Disney and Youtube for not calling him out on his bullshit before being dramatic and only acknowledging it when a dumb article that cherry picked the truth was shoved in their faces. It's funny because those who consistently fight for justice and the prevention of racism are now openly supporting him on youtube (cough hank green cough). He will continue to be the way he is because he is untouchable in that sense. Just because he wears a nude sweater and acts emotional in front of a camera doesn't mean he's actually suffering or that he regrets and or even sees the wrong in his statements. It just means that he can manipulate his audience into believing anything he does is okay and the evidence is clear now so yea, he wins in that category.
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Re: PewDiePie

Post by nephilimcat » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:58 pm

kuensukki wrote:
All these posts about understanding him and how he is different from his actual pewdiepie persona is shocking to me. To me it seems as if people are trying to justify the things he's said and done and even to a point defend it because he's not all that bad. (this is not an attack to your post Tic (ily) just another interpretation)

When I watched the video he made where he tried to wear a soft color and speak in a soft tone while opening his blue eyes, I knew people would be goners. I knew there would be people popping up saying he didn't deserve this and he was "joe-king". And he achieve that, in a brilliant way, I should add. He took attention away from what he did, told people that it's not everyones cup of tea (hmm didn't know racism was subjective) then used the rest of the video to rant about the media. Honestly, Trumps doing this right now so I see no difference. Was the article utter shit? Yes. Do I think he actually is anti-Semitic, no. I don't agree or support the article nor did I laugh an "evil laugh" because his show got dropped (moreso because people lost their jobs). BUT, his racist slurs would eventually catch up to him, so it did.

I honestly had hoped something like this would have happened sooner where a well respected media outlet exposed his channel for all the slurs, comments, and racism it contained and discussed the negative influence and community he was building. Because that stuff is toxic and very influential. My brother used faggot once because he saw Pewdiepie do it. It's toxic because he is so influential to a group of young boys and girls that are finding themselves and tend to mirror who they watch. Dont tell me after watching deppy you haven't used some of their phrases or their mannerisms. It's proven in psychology that it happen. Yet, Pewdiepie used the word n****r in his video and got away with it. And people justified it by saying he didn't have an intent behind it, but instead was joking. How the fuck do we know that? How do we not know that pewdiepie actively uses that word in his free time, do we know anything more about him then what he chooses to put out, NO. Disney didn't care, they didn't drop him because of it. A white man using that word as a means of being edgy, (despite the horrible history that word has) yet everyone continued living. I thought that atleast then, he would face repercussions, but no, he got away with it scratch free.

He's normalizing these behaviors and saying that it is okay to say those slurs if it's under the guise of being a joke. He's perpetuating a harmful environment. I know and get dark humor, but that is not what he does. And there's a place and time and a line for those things which he has crossed time and time again. It's not being edgy or funny, nor is there a different person behind the pewdiepie mask. He knows what he's doing, he is aware of the slurs (I laughed out loud when someone on here implied that he didn't) yet he continuously supports and actively creates a safe space for those to be racist openly without having to suffer from it. Look through his comments and theyre a mix of trump supporters, people who laugh at slurs and homophobic douches. They all feel comfortable to be as loud and hurtful as they want because he can do it and get away with it.

So yea fuck him. And fuck Disney and Youtube for not calling him out on his bullshit before being dramatic and only acknowledging it when a dumb article that cherry picked the truth was shoved in their faces. It's funny because those who consistently fight for justice and the prevention of racism are now openly supporting him on youtube (cough hank green cough). He will continue to be the way he is because he is untouchable in that sense. Just because he wears a nude sweater and acts emotional in front of a camera doesn't mean he's actually suffering or that he regrets and or even sees the wrong in his statements. It just means that he can manipulate his audience into believing anything he does is okay and the evidence is clear now so yea, he wins in that category.
I don't have much to add, I just wanted to say how much I agree with this

And honestly, if he really isn't an asshole and simply underestimated his influence or didn't care and suddenly starts realising and owning up to his mistakes, then of course people should forgive him and give him a second chance. Until then, I can't wrap my head around the idea of him being actually a good person. He might not be PewDiePie, but PewDiePie is him. And PewDiePie is an asshole, which is all because of Felix' decisions, which doesn't make Felix much better. I hope this makes sense
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