Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
Locked
User avatar
liola
rankussy
Posts: 1679
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:09 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: Italy

queerofcups wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:20 pm So like are we going to consider how many of these complaints are things that the phandom is doing. For example: wondering if Dan is going to be in a Phil video, deciding Dan is going to upload on a specific date or anniversary, deciding that Dan's not tweeting the ~desired~ content but still active on social media because idk the last time he went totally absent it turned into a damn tweet frenzy until he acknowledged that he was alive?

And we're also not going to offer up any alternative readings like mmm perhaps Dan offered up the confirmation that he is, indeed, planning and filming videos so that people wouldn't decide that he's done with youtube. But when he let y'all know that he's still making videos...he's hyping it. And now he's being held to a due date that is wholly fandom's creation.

lol, okay, y'all. keep moving those goal posts.
i miss dan's content, too, but this is a whole other level of lack of self-awareness.
I think everyone is pretty self aware that this is the phandom reaction, actually? Personally I put myself in the middle when I say im guilty myself of "hoping" that Phil will feature Dan in a video soon, because I miss seeing them in a video. And it's definitely the phandom as well hyping Dan up for posting on the anniversary of ttlmt (I don't know if he will, I wouldn't really put that much faith into it, I HOPE he does it earlier than that but..wouldn't put it past him)

But lamenting their lack of communication isn't something new, it's just annoying that it keeps happening. The vague communication of "expect a video soon" doesn't work for me - but it's not about Dan either, I'm like this for all creators. And like I said, he might not owe us anything, but this is a fandom-creator relationship and as a fan I'm expression discontent with his creator activity, which right now is non existent. I think we're allowed this?

We can't ignore the fact that Dan is ignoring us either. He is using his social media, he's just not using to communicate with us. Which is fine, like I said he's allowed to take breaks. We're allowed to not like it, though.

There's way more people "coddling" him and telling him that he's a good boy and he deserves the break and don't worry bb uwu than people being annoyed at the lack of dan-ness on the internet, at least outside the forum
argo
crusty sponge
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:27 pm

i think IDB ate my comment but i'll post it again - i really don't care if dan is in phil's videos and i don't have any expectations for when dan will ever post because i was expecting a video 3 months ago...6 months ago...a year ago. y'all should watch phil's mukbang where they talk about dan's channel hiatus - it starts at about 19:20 if anyone wants to watch.
User avatar
hello9217
flower crown
Posts: 745
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:11 pm
Pronouns: she/her

Trust me I get why dan's on break from dinof what I don't get is why dan's on break from all social media. I have no expectation of getting a video from him, I have no expectations of getting a video from the gaming channel but I do have slight expectations of things resembling where they were after the last tour. I do expect tweets and instagrams and even an ig story once in a blue moon if they ever leave their house- and I really think this is the bare minimum of expectations. We were never told that live shows would be put on hold or that communication would be through phil and phil alone-not that he's even saying that much either. Maybe it just seems so stark because of the amount of joint content we received last year. Even with the first tour they still made separate videos and when they were back home had separate live shows. 90% of the content we got last year was joint and now going from that to this is a very stark difference.
User avatar
Stakhanov
haru pillow
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:27 pm
Pronouns: he / him

queerofcups wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:20 pm So like are we going to consider how many of these complaints are things that the phandom is doing. For example: wondering if Dan is going to be in a Phil video, deciding Dan is going to upload on a specific date or anniversary, deciding that Dan's not tweeting the ~desired~ content but still active on social media because idk the last time he went totally absent it turned into a damn tweet frenzy until he acknowledged that he was alive?

And we're also not going to offer up any alternative readings like mmm perhaps Dan offered up the confirmation that he is, indeed, planning and filming videos so that people wouldn't decide that he's done with youtube. But when he let y'all know that he's still making videos...he's hyping it. And now he's being held to a due date that is wholly fandom's creation.

lol, okay, y'all. keep moving those goal posts.
i miss dan's content, too, but this is a whole other level of lack of self-awareness.
Yup I very much agree with this. Moving goal posts and getting angry and disappointed when Dan or Phil disagree with some random expectation that gets built up by part of the audience is so typical for the phandom, and that's one of the reasons it's considered so extra..
Like where does this new "one year since Trying to Live my Truth" thing even come from? Has Dan indicated at any moment that this was of significance to him? No.. and now some people are hyping it up and will be disappointed if a video doesn't drop. He's damn right to be surprised if people would make a fuzz about him not meeting all the expectations they create themselves. People have the right to get annoyed as much as they want, but it's quite bizarre. They aren't ghosting us. As @argo just pointed out, if you just listen to what he says and take a hint from the totality of 2018, it's very clear. It has been clear for me that Dan was on hiatus the moment videos stopped appearing on his channel for months upon months. They ended liveshows, replacing it with the Ryze trash shows which literally was just promoting their show half of the time and was in no way comparable to their solo live shows. They ended PINOF and the Sims, two of their most 'iconic' series. They explicitly put DAPG on hiatus and said they were going to take a break. They did communicate about all of this and Dan putting in action what he has signaled for months is miles away from actual ghosting.

What I think is the real issue here is that some people just have a hard time accepting the fact that Dan isn't putting his break on a clock. It sucks, I do understand, I miss his content too. I've been missing it for a whole year. Phil sure can't keep me engaged on his own with the sparse videos he produces now. He just dropped out from a channel too and his solo liveshows are nowhere to be spotted. I hope he really does evolve his channel and tries new things, because his content, while enjoyable, isn't captivating to me the way DINOF is.

What's funny to me is that I've said months ago that content was declining and that I thought that Dan (and Phil to a lesser degree) was losing engagement with youtube. They gave the impression of being burnt out. But few people here and elsewhere in the little corner of the fandom I follow thought that could be true. They pointed to the instagram stories and the couple of DAPG video's released on tour, but objectively the content has been declining for a long time. If you didn't go to the tour yourself, 2018 was one long drought. That's one main reason are losing subs and monthly views.

Still, I don't feel overly negative about the future. I do think Dan will return at some point, and it does matter to me with what kind of content he comes back. I hope it's more personal and long-form, and less about 'doing some fun stuff' to please the algorithm. I'm thinking some type of joint content is plausible, but I'm not sure it's going to be a dedicated channel.
Apart from that, I'm not convinced they know themselves. I think both are trying to diversify, get away from Youtube a bit and see what other options they have.
Finding my own inarticulate prose
Weirding out strangers and laughing at those
Jaundiced and jaded, postured and posed
Not that we’re special it’s just that we’re
Closing in on a place where we might get to be
Living real people regularly
User avatar
glitterintheair
phillluminati
Posts: 816
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:56 am
Pronouns: she/her
Location: Italy
Contact:

Oh there's definitely more people coddling Dan and that's why I stopped expressing my opinion on him on tumblr because I don't want the Dan Howell Defense Squad to come at me.
fancybum wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:10 pm This time last year we’d already had a couple of liveshows, had we not? It’s not just lack of dapg that’s making this feel more barren. They cut us off. Liveshows, even when they’re boring, at least have the personal ‘just checking in’ vibe, even if they didn’t tell us any specifics of what they were doing. Like Dan rambling about whatever for awhile before ending with ‘look forward to a video at some point’ would go a long way right about now. But for whatever reason, they’re cutting off their little attempts at (seemingly) more personal, casual interaction. And people are allowed to feel shitty about that. People are allowed to feel shitty that something they loved got thrown in the bin.
+1. I am not feeling connected to them at the moment and it makes me enjoy the content we get a bit less because of it. I wouldn't mind the hiatus that much if we still got some personal content but we're not getting anything - hell, we don't even know what Phil got for his birthday, except for the static sweater. Cutting their own fanbase off casual interaction is the stupidest thing they can do - especially when they did their best to increase those casual interactions in the past year; now all we're getting is ig stories from Phil about games/tv shows/movies/animals and since it's not enough to keep me invested in the long run, I'd like to know if the current situation will be permanent or not.

I also wanna say that I couldn't care less about dinof. Really, he could upload a ISG and I'd be like "okay". But I do miss Dan and I do miss him with Phil.
I'm a winter flower underground, always thirsty for summer rain.
User avatar
cringemonkey
drama llama
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 10:23 am
Pronouns: she/her

Stakhanov wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:06 pm Yup I very much agree with this. Moving goal posts and getting angry and disappointed when Dan or Phil disagree with some random expectation that gets built up by part of the audience is so typical for the phandom, and that's one of the reasons it's considered so extra..
Like where does this new "one year since Trying to Live my Truth" thing even come from? Has Dan indicated at any moment that this was of significance to him? No.. and now some people are hyping it up and will be disappointed if a video doesn't drop. He's damn right to be surprised if people would make a fuzz about him not meeting all the expectations they create themselves. People have the right to get annoyed as much as they want, but it's quite bizarre. They aren't ghosting us. As @argo just pointed out, if you just listen to what he says and take a hint from the totality of 2018, it's very clear. It has been clear for me that Dan was on hiatus the moment videos stopped appearing on his channel for months upon months. They ended liveshows, replacing it with the Ryze trash shows which literally was just promoting their show half of the time and was in no way comparable to their solo live shows. They ended PINOF and the Sims, two of their most 'iconic' series. They explicitly put DAPG on hiatus and said they were going to take a break. They did communicate about all of this and Dan putting in action what he has signaled for months is miles away from actual ghosting.

What I think is the real issue here is that some people just have a hard time accepting the fact that Dan isn't putting his break on a clock. It sucks, I do understand, I miss his content too. I've been missing it for a whole year. Phil sure can't keep me engaged on his own with the sparse videos he produces now. He just dropped out from a channel too and his solo liveshows are nowhere to be spotted. I hope he really does evolve his channel and tries new things, because his content, while enjoyable, isn't captivating to me the way DINOF is.

What's funny to me is that I've said months ago that content was declining and that I thought that Dan (and Phil to a lesser degree) was losing engagement with youtube. They gave the impression of being burnt out. But few people here and elsewhere in the little corner of the fandom I follow thought that could be true. They pointed to the instagram stories and the couple of DAPG video's released on tour, but objectively the content has been declining for a long time. If you didn't go to the tour yourself, 2018 was one long drought. That's one main reason are losing subs and monthly views.

Still, I don't feel overly negative about the future. I do think Dan will return at some point, and it does matter to me with what kind of content he comes back. I hope it's more personal and long-form, and less about 'doing some fun stuff' to please the algorithm. I'm thinking some type of joint content is plausible, but I'm not sure it's going to be a dedicated channel.
Apart from that, I'm not convinced they know themselves. I think both are trying to diversify, get away from Youtube a bit and see what other options they have.
Ok yes, I agree with all of this, especially the bolded parts. Either they're planning something really big for YT, Dan's planning something big for YT, or they're both stepping away from it to see what else they can do. I'm just not sure how they can afford to be putting YT seemingly on the backburner for this long ? :shrug:
User avatar
thestigdrivesamini
sad dimple
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:31 am

glitterintheair wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:19 pm Oh there's definitely more people coddling Dan and that's why I stopped expressing my opinion on him on tumblr because I don't want the Dan Howell Defense Squad to come at me.
fancybum wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:10 pm This time last year we’d already had a couple of liveshows, had we not? It’s not just lack of dapg that’s making this feel more barren. They cut us off. Liveshows, even when they’re boring, at least have the personal ‘just checking in’ vibe, even if they didn’t tell us any specifics of what they were doing. Like Dan rambling about whatever for awhile before ending with ‘look forward to a video at some point’ would go a long way right about now. But for whatever reason, they’re cutting off their little attempts at (seemingly) more personal, casual interaction. And people are allowed to feel shitty about that. People are allowed to feel shitty that something they loved got thrown in the bin.
+1. I am not feeling connected to them at the moment and it makes me enjoy the content we get a bit less because of it. I wouldn't mind the hiatus that much if we still got some personal content but we're not getting anything - hell, we don't even know what Phil got for his birthday, except for the static sweater. Cutting their own fanbase off casual interaction is the stupidest thing they can do - especially when they did their best to increase those casual interactions in the past year; now all we're getting is ig stories from Phil about games/tv shows/movies/animals and since it's not enough to keep me invested in the long run, I'd like to know if the current situation will be permanent or not.

I also wanna say that I couldn't care less about dinof. Really, he could upload a ISG and I'd be like "okay". But I do miss Dan and I do miss him with Phil.
I think one of the biggest positives about this community was the connection to the boys and the casual interactions. Hell, even Dan talked about it before and how their relationship with us was different from other creators/celebrities. And now that’s been cut off. Which only magnifies the content drought. It feels almost personal. They spent an entire year meeting us and forming a closer bond through liveshows and stories and now it’s as if they have no interest in the community anymore (I know that’s not entirely true, but you know what I mean)

Phil heard your call and provided us with some SHOWER GEL content! So I take back everything I just said..they’re clearly giving us quality content 👌 (I’m salty today).
queerofcups
spork
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:10 am
Pronouns: they | them

liola wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:22 pm I think everyone is pretty self aware that this is the phandom reaction, actually? Personally I put myself in the middle when I say im guilty myself of "hoping" that Phil will feature Dan in a video soon, because I miss seeing them in a video. And it's definitely the phandom as well hyping Dan up for posting on the anniversary of ttlmt (I don't know if he will, I wouldn't really put that much faith into it, I HOPE he does it earlier than that but..wouldn't put it past him)

But lamenting their lack of communication isn't something new, it's just annoying that it keeps happening. The vague communication of "expect a video soon" doesn't work for me - but it's not about Dan either, I'm like this for all creators. And like I said, he might not owe us anything, but this is a fandom-creator relationship and as a fan I'm expression discontent with his creator activity, which right now is non existent. I think we're allowed this?

We can't ignore the fact that Dan is ignoring us either. He is using his social media, he's just not using to communicate with us. Which is fine, like I said he's allowed to take breaks. We're allowed to not like it, though.

There's way more people "coddling" him and telling him that he's a good boy and he deserves the break and don't worry bb uwu than people being annoyed at the lack of dan-ness on the internet, at least outside the forum

You might be acknowledging that a lot of these expectations are coming from fandom but that's absolutely not the trend. It takes one person to be mildly discontent for their to be a wave of people talking about how they've failed us as an audience and forgetting just how much of them "failing" is them not living up to expectations that we've created. And I think we all know that there are already people out there who are talking about how excited they are to see the video coming out a year after the living my truth vid who aren't bothering to check and see just where that info came from.

And no, I don't think people are self-aware. I think people are upset and get really excited when they have people to be upset with, to the point of conveniently forgetting things like the search party people damn near sent out when Dan didn't tweet for a week, or this awful cycle of videos being "hyped" just because Dan or Phil tell you that there is, in fact, going to be a video.

As far as "coddling", look, like I said, I miss content. There are things I would do differently. But I don't think its "coddling" them to point out the ways this fandom has always been low-key amnesiac when it is discontent.
User avatar
Stakhanov
haru pillow
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:27 pm
Pronouns: he / him

cringemonkey wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:39 pm
Stakhanov wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:06 pm Yup I very much agree with this. Moving goal posts and getting angry and disappointed when Dan or Phil disagree with some random expectation that gets built up by part of the audience is so typical for the phandom, and that's one of the reasons it's considered so extra..
Like where does this new "one year since Trying to Live my Truth" thing even come from? Has Dan indicated at any moment that this was of significance to him? No.. and now some people are hyping it up and will be disappointed if a video doesn't drop. He's damn right to be surprised if people would make a fuzz about him not meeting all the expectations they create themselves. People have the right to get annoyed as much as they want, but it's quite bizarre. They aren't ghosting us. As @argo just pointed out, if you just listen to what he says and take a hint from the totality of 2018, it's very clear. It has been clear for me that Dan was on hiatus the moment videos stopped appearing on his channel for months upon months. They ended liveshows, replacing it with the Ryze trash shows which literally was just promoting their show half of the time and was in no way comparable to their solo live shows. They ended PINOF and the Sims, two of their most 'iconic' series. They explicitly put DAPG on hiatus and said they were going to take a break. They did communicate about all of this and Dan putting in action what he has signaled for months is miles away from actual ghosting.

What I think is the real issue here is that some people just have a hard time accepting the fact that Dan isn't putting his break on a clock. It sucks, I do understand, I miss his content too. I've been missing it for a whole year. Phil sure can't keep me engaged on his own with the sparse videos he produces now. He just dropped out from a channel too and his solo liveshows are nowhere to be spotted. I hope he really does evolve his channel and tries new things, because his content, while enjoyable, isn't captivating to me the way DINOF is.

What's funny to me is that I've said months ago that content was declining and that I thought that Dan (and Phil to a lesser degree) was losing engagement with youtube. They gave the impression of being burnt out. But few people here and elsewhere in the little corner of the fandom I follow thought that could be true. They pointed to the instagram stories and the couple of DAPG video's released on tour, but objectively the content has been declining for a long time. If you didn't go to the tour yourself, 2018 was one long drought. That's one main reason are losing subs and monthly views.

Still, I don't feel overly negative about the future. I do think Dan will return at some point, and it does matter to me with what kind of content he comes back. I hope it's more personal and long-form, and less about 'doing some fun stuff' to please the algorithm. I'm thinking some type of joint content is plausible, but I'm not sure it's going to be a dedicated channel.
Apart from that, I'm not convinced they know themselves. I think both are trying to diversify, get away from Youtube a bit and see what other options they have.
Ok yes, I agree with all of this, especially the bolded parts. Either they're planning something really big for YT, Dan's planning something big for YT, or they're both stepping away from it to see what else they can do. I'm just not sure how they can afford to be putting YT seemingly on the backburner for this long ? :shrug:
I think one can argue that they have always kind of stood in youtube with one leg and stood in side projects with another. (wait that's a dutch idiom that doesn't mean a thing in English :sideeye: ) They've always been committed to side projects, from the moment they worked for BBC radio to the (I wager) very lucrative tour last year. I could certainly understand the reasoning to move away from youtube. Financially, you're left at the mercy of the existing revenue sharing policy, which could always change or become less interesting (e.g. the 'adpocalypse') and which you have no control over. The rules of the platform can just bluntly restrict what you can monetize but more subtly it just incentivizes certain content over other, so in a way you have to constantly make this choice between what you think is in your best financial interest as a 'professional entertainer' vs what you would be more artistically inclined to make. There's all the comparison going on and the link between what you put into a video and the popularity is often weak. While views and subs are considered such a key metric for success on the platform. It's just a source of stress.
That said I don't even know to what extent they really are motivated at this point by money. The tours, according to their own words, were just as much about meeting the audience. I think in every line of work you like to experience the effect of what you do as direct and concrete as possible. Looking into a camera recording videos as a full time job can feel alienating. Doing different things professionally has a lot of natural appeal (to some people at least). You challenge yourself, develop different skills, avoid being stuck in a rut.

Fundamentally I agree with you. They can't keep their youtubes on the backburner forever. Even if it's not their most lucrative or desired career path, I think it's the locus where they build their audience. People primarily get to know and love them through what they put on youtube. It's a medium that works very well for building a relationship that feels personal (even if that's more of an illusion). Without the engagement and loyalty of their audience, all their other projects wouldn't be possible. So either they make a move into a career where that audience doesn't really matter, and then it just remains to be seen if they'll be successful at it. Or they keep a strong presence. They can more or less do the same and probably face a dwindling fanbase as the distance between them and their overhelmingly teen audience grows, or they could take chances and reinvent themselves. Genuinely change up what they are doing, not just make a video where they change a room set to a book shelf set or where they talk about how they're no longer danisnotonfire but Daniel Howell ;)
I hope for the latter and if they do change things up, I hope people are supportive about it. Still even if they would lose part of the audience because they no longer 'give the people what they want', it might be the right choice for them because whatever they do now doesn't seem to be working to much for them (especially Dan). No content at all is basically the worst content :lol:
Finding my own inarticulate prose
Weirding out strangers and laughing at those
Jaundiced and jaded, postured and posed
Not that we’re special it’s just that we’re
Closing in on a place where we might get to be
Living real people regularly
User avatar
plinthofmylife
janice from the shop
Posts: 529
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:41 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: USA

When I get mad about lack of content (which I do) I think back to the days before we expected YT creators to feed us on 3?4? different social media platforms daily in order to consider us as being fed.

I want Dan to post, so very very much, on any freaking platform at this point, but I also don't think a break is a bad thing. I think they've had this job for a long time, they have financial stability, and if Dan wants to take a creative break, he has the means to do that if he realizes he's risking his long-term audience engagement.

But I've said it before: all 2008-2011 era big YT creators have changed the way they've engaged with the platform, or left altogether. Shane Dawson, SuperwomanII, Michelle Phan (I don't follow beauty channels but I REALLY recommend her "why I left" final video for some context), Natalie Tran... the list goes on. They've all expressed concern over how the goalposts have moved, the algorithm has changed. Even TomSka recently says he only thinks he has "one more good year on youtube" with the way things have been changing. The youtubers that have been going crazy gaining subs and views these days are all new, younger folks, the biggest of which have come out of the Buzzfeed Factory of Viral LongForm Content.

I would just say that compared to nearly all of those creators (Shane excluded perhaps) Deppy have the most extra fanbase that gets the most... upset... if we don't get fed.

I also look to other ad-supported platforms that got big after starting as creative projects - big blogs, like Design*Sponge (shutting down after 14 years) and Rookie (shut down last year). Rookie's editor letter about the shut down and her personal creativity and how the business model has changed is one of the best long-reads on this.

From another note, Dan is one of the only YT creators with his level of subs 5mill+ - that doesn't have an editor or other video production team members. I don't think he should necessarily, but I live in a household with two youtubers and I'm constantly think how much more time we would have if we didn't spend 20+ hours a week editing between the two of us and gaming videos require even more editing work.

I'll also say from a personal perspective when I'm focused on filming/editing, I'm quiet on twitter/instagram/tumblr. When I'm struggling or procrastinating, I'll hang out and sh*tpost all day long. So there's that.
Image
User avatar
phanfckingtastic
living flop
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:47 pm
Pronouns: he/him

Agree with queerofcups that the phandom’s apparent conspiracy theory canon where dnp are sending us constant messages, behaving or scheduling with very specific intentions and keeping us always in mind for everything they do only serves to create anxiety and false expectations.
Dan could be working hard on his next vid but also having mental health issues. And other life shit happens, too. Family issues, work issues, plumbing issues! lol, who knows. The point is, their life exists beyond the internet and the phandom, and unfortunately they’re one of the most private ytubers, so we never get real updates, even about mundane things, unless they’re vague enough or silly enough.
Internet days feel like years, as well, and that doesn’t help.


Now, about that ig story, if only Phil continued his big evolution and stopped buying cosmetics produced by animal torturing brands like L’oreal, that would make me so proud. I know I always give him a hard time about this issue, but rich “influencers” who go on and on about cute animals yet don’t even spend 10 minutes to google cruelty free products to make the ethical switch drive me insane.
eternal dan and phil mood -> :happytears:
FlegmaticSimon
drama llama
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:22 pm

phanfckingtastic wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:12 pm
Dan could be working hard on his next vid but also having mental health issues. And other life shit happens, too. Family issues, work issues, plumbing issues! lol, who knows. The point is, their life exists beyond the internet and the phandom, and unfortunately they’re one of the most private ytubers, so we never get real updates, even about mundane things, unless they’re vague enough or silly enough.
Internet days feel like years, as well, and that doesn’t help.
I was thinking the exact same thing! Who knows, maybe he was planning on having a short break, but then some issues arose and that's why we're in this situation now. It's a possibility, although I hope he's well, naturally. ;)
User avatar
autumnhearth
senpai
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:44 am
Pronouns: she/her
Location: OH, USA

phanfckingtastic wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:12 pm Agree with queerofcups that the phandom’s apparent conspiracy theory canon where dnp are sending us constant messages, behaving or scheduling with very specific intentions and keeping us always in mind for everything they do only serves to create anxiety and false expectations.
Dan could be working hard on his next vid but also having mental health issues. And other life shit happens, too. Family issues, work issues, plumbing issues! lol, who knows. The point is, their life exists beyond the internet and the phandom, and unfortunately they’re one of the most private ytubers, so we never get real updates, even about mundane things, unless they’re vague enough or silly enough. Internet days feel like years, as well, and that doesn’t help.
Now, about that ig story, if only Phil continued his big evolution and stopped buying cosmetics produced by animal torturing brands like L’oreal, that would make me so proud. I know I always give him a hard time about this issue, but rich “influencers” who go on and on about cute animals yet don’t even spend 10 minutes to google cruelty free products to make the ethical switch drive me insane.
Yep, not to mention the SLS and unnecessary colorants. If you want a manly woodsy all in one wash that’s vegan, cruelty free and has no parabens, phthalates, sodium lauryl sulfate, or silicones, go for Olivina’s Cedar and Bourbon. It has natural ingredients like aloe leaf juice, barley protein, maté leaf extract, elderberry extract, sea buckthorn extract, birch bark extract, juniper berry extract, basil leaf extract, olive oil, hemp seed oil and grape seed oil. It’s more expensive, but I’m sure he can afford it. #spon
capybantsa
glabella
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:30 am
Pronouns: he/him
Location: Japan

phanfckingtastic wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:12 pm Now, about that ig story, if only Phil continued his big evolution and stopped buying cosmetics produced by animal torturing brands like L’oreal, that would make me so proud. I know I always give him a hard time about this issue, but rich “influencers” who go on and on about cute animals yet don’t even spend 10 minutes to google cruelty free products to make the ethical switch drive me insane.
Unfortunately a lot of western "cruelty free" products avoid testing on animals by testing on
cut off infant foreskins
... So it takes a lot more effort than 10 minutes of Googling if you really want to be ethical.
User avatar
daichii
rainbow nerd
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:49 am
Pronouns: she | her

I kind of like and dislike their new way of doing things this year.
On one side I feel like Phil is being more himself in social media and a bit in youtube but it's slightly ruining my enjoyment when I go to other platforms and all I see is people wondering why dan wasn't in his latest video and I think he feels that pressure too.

I do like that I'm completely over dapg now, and I was over dinof a long time ago so any joint content we might get in the future I'm sure I'll enjoy it 1000% more and if there's none... well I've adjusted now.

Agree with your comments on their lack of communication, it's quite baffling how they keep the phandom engaged when they can be so bad at this.
Image
blu
squish
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:05 am
Pronouns: she/her
Location: Canada

lmao
User avatar
starwatersong
phabergé
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:42 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: Canada

blu wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:57 am lmao
I was thinking that this seems like the weirdest crossover ever but then I remembered the Fabergé egg thing.
bifaeri
tol bean
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:21 am

starwatersong wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:06 am
blu wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:57 am lmao
I was thinking that this seems like the weirdest crossover ever but then I remembered the Fabergé egg thing.
I don't think anything can beat the Phil Lester x Faberge crossover. That was a wild ride.
bifaeri
tol bean
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:21 am

Just adding to the discussion to say that I think that a significant portion of the phandom would've been cool if we still had live shows. While I understand that the shifting goalposts thing is a problem within the phandom, they did say nothing would change except the dapg break and really, almost everything stayed the same.

Phil making videos- check
Dan not making videos- check
dapg hiatus- check
but liveshows seem to have disappeared along with dapg which was quite unexpected. That combined with Dan's social media break- which I understand and respect (I went on a social media hiatus myself too but i don't have millions of people worrying about my whereabouts) have made people feel very alienated from dan and phil but mostly Dan. I can understand that they might not want to do one knowing that all the questions would be about dapg but if live shows were going on a break too, then we should've known. Not hearing from them (together) for so long is unexpected and I think that is a huge part of why so many people who would usually cut them slack are not being so generous now. Some sort of two-way communication street between us and them is usually favoured and the best way that was done was through liveshows but with that gone, we end up feeling a huge disconnect. Twitter replies and sparse instagram stories can only go so far.

Personally, solo dan content was what introduced me to this fandom but I stuck around for dapg and AP so of course I miss dan but I don't know him and I don't know why he isn't making videos and I don't know his plans. For the meantime, I am content to wait and see but I really do miss him and i think i and most of this fandom would benefit from some type of communication.

Anyhow, what this whole thing has taught me is that I have a whole lot of appreciation for Mr Amazingphil. Like i feel so much fondness for him right now :happytears: and also shoutout to artists and fic writers and gif makers and edit makers and stuff. Y'all are carrying the weight of this phandom on your backs and i think that is pretty great.
User avatar
lionandllama
squish
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:44 pm

Sorry for changing the topic so drastically but I meant to post about this days ago when Phil actually dropped the IG story related to that, then forgot about it, then read someone on here saying they had to google the slime anime to see if Phil had gotten into yet another problematic anime show and remembered what I wanted to talk about.

So... I felt really uncomfortable when I saw him recommending the slime anime and even calling it “wholesome”. Like, the cover he posted alone shows about 5 things that are the opposite of wholesome — lolicon “aesthetics” included.
A friend forwarded me his IG story and asked why he’s watching sexist trash like that and I shrugged my shoulders, going “They do that quite a lot I think and they don’t seem to really see the many problems with it”.
It’s something that has been bothering me for ages because I do really despise that side of anime culture, the constant objectification of female characters and endlessly sexualising literally everything, the marketed pedophilia that’s just, ya know, “part of anime”, haha weird Japanese people and their funny 12yos with titty jiggle animations!! It’s gross. And I find it weird that dnp seem to brush it off so easily.
I remember Dan talking about it in a liveshow briefly, about how sexist anime is etc., but it all boiled down to “That’s just the way their culture is” and it bothers me. He’s usually so progressive but when it comes to anime and dweeb culture they’re both so ignorant. I wonder why that is?

Like, what about this lolita nightmare screams “wholesome”?
Image
User avatar
knq
lava lamp
Posts: 956
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:42 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: USA

I do really appreciate all the liveshows they’ve put out over the years. Even the more problematic (in content and in technical quality) early ones have such precious moments. Watching old liveshows is one way I’ve stayed engaged with dnp over the hiatus.

It seems like a lot of people heard Dan say that nothing besides DAPG would change. Where? That wasn’t the impression I got when I first watched their Christmas liveshow, and skimming through it again now I may have missed an important line of audio, but all I hear Dan say is that there is no ‘other extended Dan and Phil apocolypse’ and that he agrees change is scary but it’s also good for growth/mental health/delicious. They read “everything is changing!’ from the chat and don’t deny it, they just say that change isn’t “necessarily a bad thing.’

It was an odd liveshow because I think they were trying to reassure the audience that they weren’t breaking up without confirming there was anything to breakup from, and because they both have a (bad imo) habit of trying to manage fan reactions by telling people not to worry or by making panic seem ridiculous in a comedic way. But none of that adds up to a denial of changes to come. It would be odd for Dan to come out and say that nothing is changing at the same time he says he’s changing every day.
User avatar
dancy
procrastinator
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:45 pm

knq wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:30 am I do really appreciate all the liveshows they’ve put out over the years. Even the more problematic (in content and in technical quality) early ones have such precious moments. Watching old liveshows is one way I’ve stayed engaged with dnp over the hiatus.

It seems like a lot of people heard Dan say that nothing besides DAPG would change. Where? That wasn’t the impression I got when I first watched their Christmas liveshow, and skimming through it again now I may have missed an important line of audio, but all I hear Dan say is that there is no ‘other extended Dan and Phil apocolypse’ and that he agrees change is scary but it’s also good for growth/mental health/delicious. They read “everything is changing!’ from the chat and don’t deny it, they just say that change isn’t “necessarily a bad thing.’

It was an odd liveshow because I think they were trying to reassure the audience that they weren’t breaking up without confirming there was anything to breakup from, and because they both have a (bad imo) habit of trying to manage fan reactions by telling people not to worry or by making panic seem ridiculous in a comedic way. But none of that adds up to a denial of changes to come. It would be odd for Dan to come out and say that nothing is changing at the same time he says he’s changing every day.
I don't believe Dan literally said that nothing else is changing at any point in the liveshow but towards the end of it he did say "I know it was the last PINOF and we're pausing the gaming channel but that's it, so don't have a meltdown". I now presume that's not necessarily supposed to mean that everything besides that will stay the same but is more to reassure us that just because they've ended two joint, YouTube-related things, it doesn't mean they're completely leaving YouTube (yet) and also aren't separating in any way.
idk
pumpkin spice pumpkin cookie
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:39 pm

knq wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:30 am It seems like a lot of people heard Dan say that nothing besides DAPG would change. Where?
I think the only other place other than that liveshow where they tangentially mentioned the future and change is in an answertime answer which I'm going to quote bc I can't get it to embed:

Question: When is Dan going to post again?
short yet chunky answer: i took a break from posting on youtube this year (and thus the prophecy of dan’s diss track entirely came true) as i’m at a point in my life where i want to grow as a person (and creatively) and the thing about youtube is that it never stops - as opposed to a musician’s album cycle or a tv show with seasons that has natural breaks that allow for the creator to be inspired, the culture (and algorithm) of youtube expects you to constantly create with no pause. more than that, i feel when you make a youtube video you are putting a version of yourself out there almost like a snapshot in time defining who you are. i felt i could only really develop if i took a pause to think about how i want to grow. now that we’ve finished our tour and put ‘interactive introverts’ out into the world - which is a piece of work i think is very important and i’m incredibly proud of, i intend to think about how i can be more like the person i want to be. (which is why ‘trying to live my truth’ was the last real video i uploaded!) but don’t worry, nothing’s changing that much and i have no plans of going anywhere anytime soon, thank you for caring!
Dan says ‘nothing’s changing that much’ which, again, doesn’t deny that things are changing just that people shouldn’t worry/panic about it.

I do think that we’re in the midst of change. Things are changing. As Knq said, they haven’t denied things are changing. They’ve only ~denied/downplayed the magnitude of the change.

I do think that they say and do things (and also don’t say and don’t do things) to mitigate immediate and dramatic mass panic and hysteria with their audience. And I feel like if they were to address all of the things that were changing or ending etc in that one liveshow there would have been mass hysteria and panic. More than there already was.

I also think they rely on implicature and assumptions too. The way they talked about the end of pinof and the ‘hiatus’ of dapg was so telling imo.

Preface to announcing the dapg ‘hiatus’:

‘Some of you probably guessed because of the Dan versus Phil video…’ (titled ’Dan vs. Phil - THE FINAL BATTLE’)

Talking about pinof ending:
Phil: ‘I thought- I thought it was like-’
Dan: ‘You can’t assume it’s obvious’
Phil: ‘I thought it was obvious enough- like a- it was like a subtle- like a closing- that was the last Phil is not on fire as well…’
Dan and Phil say things in the moment to placate/calm their audience and then don’t address it for a long time (or ever again) and it just gets to a point where they assume their audience has caught on. They have a history of this. Dan and Phil have a history of letting their audience down ~gently if you will. For example, saying that the end of the radio show was a ‘hiatus’ and then letting people realise in their own time/of their own accord that it was a permanent thing.

And I do actually think this does work regardless of whether or not it’s arguably the ~best way they could do things.

Each and every day that goes by more and more people are less inclined/less resolute in thinking that dapg is coming back. They’re less sure about [xyz] relating to Dan and Phil and, imo, that’s what Dan and Phil, whether consciously or unconsciously, want. It’s ~easier for lack of a better word for them to let people realise things in their own time and of their own accord.

It’s even happening with liveshows imo. The more time that goes on without a liveshow the more people are realising that either liveshows aren’t coming back or if they are, they won’t be like they used to be.

I think it’s about slowly acclimating their audience to changes through a lack of communication and a lack of stuff/content (ie. liveshows) if you will. And I’m not saying this is how they should be doing things or that this is the best way to navigate all this stuff but if having people slowly but surely realise that [xyz] has changed, it’s working.

But I also think that at that point in December they didn’t have answers to a lot of things. I’d bet they have those answers now. And I think they’re laying down the groundwork for these changes now regardless of whether they’re directly talking about it.
knq wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:30 am It was an odd liveshow because I think they were trying to reassure the audience that they weren’t breaking up without confirming there was anything to breakup from
I agree with this
User avatar
noodlebum
flower crown
Posts: 711
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:00 pm
Location: UK

I want to watch that liveshow again now, it was certainly interesting. I agree that they likely have various ideas and plans afoot :)
User avatar
autumnhearth
senpai
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:44 am
Pronouns: she/her
Location: OH, USA

lionandllama wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:01 am Sorry for changing the topic so drastically but I meant to post about this days ago when Phil actually dropped the IG story related to that, then forgot about it, then read someone on here saying they had to google the slime anime to see if Phil had gotten into yet another problematic anime show and remembered what I wanted to talk about.

So... I felt really uncomfortable when I saw him recommending the slime anime and even calling it “wholesome”. Like, the cover he posted alone shows about 5 things that are the opposite of wholesome — lolicon “aesthetics” included.
A friend forwarded me his IG story and asked why he’s watching sexist trash like that and I shrugged my shoulders, going “They do that quite a lot I think and they don’t seem to really see the many problems with it”.
It’s something that has been bothering me for ages because I do really despise that side of anime culture, the constant objectification of female characters and endlessly sexualising literally everything, the marketed pedophilia that’s just, ya know, “part of anime”, haha weird Japanese people and their funny 12yos with titty jiggle animations!! It’s gross. And I find it weird that dnp seem to brush it off so easily.
I remember Dan talking about it in a liveshow briefly, about how sexist anime is etc., but it all boiled down to “That’s just the way their culture is” and it bothers me. He’s usually so progressive but when it comes to anime and dweeb culture they’re both so ignorant. I wonder why that is?

Like, what about this lolita nightmare screams “wholesome”?
Image
Thank you for saying this. I felt the same way when seeing that IG story with all the bulging boobs. I have no answers for you, but I definitely take issue with him promoting using the word wholesome.
Locked