Dan & Phil Part 86: here, queer & full of existential fear

[plastictrees]

i love her so much omg. wonder if martyn will say anything?

i hope he gets as many lovely tweets from other creators as dan did! i know privacy is he thing but i stan supportive internet people pls

[feenix]

My thoughts before I sleep!!
1. I texted my bestie "IT'S SO PHIL" while watching the video.
2. I agree with everyone who has said they didn't expect more than the tweet from Phil regarding his sexuality. I'm SO proud he decided to make a video too.
3. Unsurprised he's been out since he was at uni, but I AM surprised that he's not bi.
4. I'm a lesbian and my "man crush" is Darren Criss as he's who I loved when I thought I was bi and had a boyfriend. So I get Phil saying SMG is his crush, but I'm sad he's had to use her as his prime crush example all these years.
5. My fiancee has a video of me crying watching this video (it is mostly me covering my face and telling her to fuck off)
6. Unrelated to Phil, but regarding the terf discussion:

I used to be deep into radfem tumblr in 2013/2014 so I know a lot about their beliefs. A lot of what they think about feminism I can agree with and see merit in. However when I eventually realised that 90% of the women I followed were transphobic, I unfollowed them. You can care about cis women while also believing transwomen are women. Terfs exist and they ARE transphobic. My best friend is trans. Two of my closest friends are NB. Dan calling out terfs makes me love and respect him even more than I already did, if he pisses off terfs I'm here for that.

Anyway, happy pride everyone!!

[jesp]

Unrelated, I'd like to start a petition to remove this emoji from the arsenal:

This is a good point. I'll bring it up with the other mods.

[000dia000]

When I saw the notification for the video, I lost my mind. We all literally knew he wasn't straight before this from just his tweet alone, and while he said he always thought about making a video, a part of me just thought he would kind of just, never actually, do it.



Him being so open is what I love to see!! He really us the most private person but the expert at making it seem like he's so open.

Anyways, I think we know what secret he told Tyler in that collab video that one time!!

While I know we're still fresh off the video and that people aren't really picking at things he has said as of yet...is anybody else a little surprised that he's very resolutely gay? And that he's been sure since he was a teenager? I'm just saying, because he said at one point he said he was bi on formspring, so either fibbed then for whatever reason, or changed identity. (Nothing wrong with that). There's probably more of a story there, but I suppose that's personal to Phil. Otherwise, I'm also a little surprised that he's gay due to how much they pushed the whole "girlfriend" thing and that Phil always seemed the more flirtatious or suggestive one around girls. I just wonder how much they were indeed putting on a performance for the audience or just how much people blew it out of proportion. ("Look! He isn't gay, he made eye contact with that female!!") It turns out, Phil was friendly towards women, but never actually flirty...he was just genuinely friendly. Nevertheless, Phil for some reason really is that gay person that goes under the expert "gaydar" of straight people (and maybe even gay people?) in that he isn't what people typically expect a gay guy to be. He never got as much speculation or confusion as Dan, and a lot more people thought he was straight, or at most bi. I'm not sure how other people feel about this, but I'm really interested in talking about it. Thoughts???

Anyways, as other people have said, I didn't actually think we'd ever get such a loud statement about their sexualities and more personal aspects of their lives, like ever. I'm so proud of them! They're doing more than I ever could hah hah

I guess those people on Reddit claiming to have pictures of Phil’s supposed girlfriend/wife feel dumb af right now.

Okay but I started crying when I saw the video I love him so much.

Is this actually a thing? I'm sure Janice is shocked at the news.

Yep, see spoiler in quote

Taking this comment in point...I've never read a more out of touch comment (and the ratio of upvotes to downvotes on each comment ) I honestly wish I had this person's confidence:

Ignoring the address comment, which has merit, what the fuck are they talking about? And the follow up:



Like, WHAT pictures? Seriously, WHAT pictures? WHAT planet does this person live on? Is Phil not allowed to have any friends or have a professional relationship with any woman without people automatically saying they are his girlfriend? Do they not understand the wife-Janice meme?

Anyways, I mostly wanted to share this interaction because I couldn't get it out of my mind. Also found a comment saying that they knew Phil from school and he seemed like a nice guy at the time, which was nice to see.

You bet I'm going to stalk their reddit account until they find out. I'll get sick satisfaction, no matter their reaction.



Also, the TERF conversation: if you're so upset about the word "TERF" being used, in the context of TERF's being TERF's (ie. Being trans a exclusionary) maybe you're just a TERF? :/ You kind of sound like Nazi's who hate being called Nazi's. I can understand annoyance at people misusing the word or not understanding radfem or whatever...but if the shoe fits.

[daichii]

I'm so happy that young queer people will have such two great examples of people to look up to. Phil's video was lovely, I really enjoyed the how positive it is, I've missed Phil a lot and I'm really looking forward to his Q&A at vidcon.

The closet bit is a masterpiece btw and indeed I'm super surprised that he fully labels himself as gay, I honestly thought he was also attracted to women. I sadly think part of that is how comfortable he seems with himself whereas I feel that there's this thought in society that gay or lesbians must appear in some way in full denial but *obviously* gay/lesbian to straights due to prejudice and stereotypes and I feel that this affefted my view of him all these years. Hopefully such things will keep on changing as the world becomes more accepting and stereotypes disappear.

[eevee]

Is Dan salty that we're calling Phil's video lowkey? Dan's over here like "MANY!!!!! IMPORTANT!!! POINTS!!!! SO MANY I COULD WRITE AN ESSAY!!!!"

Dan we love and support Phil and we acknowledge how important this is!! Thank you Phil for doing this, you are right representation is important!

Not to continue this convo but Dan and Phil are GAY. Dan in his own video said that we should believe people when they tell us what their identities are (sorry I don't have the quote) and now we're over here trying to say Dan isn't gay because he had a girlfriend????? Listen I am the biggest bisexual there is but Dan and Phil are telling us in clear english they are GAY so we need to validate that. what did they even come out for if people are not going to take it seriously?
(harsh tone not directed at anyone in particular but my general passion about this topic)

[pilotlight]

While I know we're still fresh off the video and that people aren't really picking at things he has said as of yet...is anybody else a little surprised that he's very resolutely gay? And that he's been sure since he was a teenager? I'm just saying, because he said at one point he said he was bi on formspring, so either fibbed then for whatever reason, or changed identity. (Nothing wrong with that). There's probably more of a story there, but I suppose that's personal to Phil.

This! I was a little surprised but I was having trouble putting a finger on why I was. Not in a negative way or anything, just I guess I had imagined him as maybe not caring/identifying with any particular label, but I'm happy to be wrong. (Not that I wouldn't be happy if he opted not to label himself, but ykwim.)

[Catallena]

I love love love Alli being one of the first people to respond to both of them (from the youtube community). For anyone that doesn't follow her, she used to be married to a daily vlogger (Charles Trippy) and came out after she divorced him and has been dating women for the past couple years.

She was also with them in Jamaica and now the moments of her booping Dan's nose while Dan and Phil were laying on the boat and when she called them a 'cute kayak couple' will have even more sentimental value to me.

Yes Alli's response to the both of them makes me so happy!!

As someone who watched the CTFxC vlogs for years before the divorce and then watched Alli grow and find an identity for herself which included coming out, her now supporting the two boys she once met 9 years ago in Jamaica when they were still kinda nobodies and she was the superior half of one of YouTube's biggest vlog channels really does things to my poor heart. Back in an old liveshow Dan was asked about CTFxC and he said he got along the best with Alli. That really kinda slaps alternatively now lol.

When I saw the notification for the video, I lost my mind. We all literally knew he wasn't straight before this from just his tweet alone, and while he said he always thought about making a video, a part of me just thought he would kind of just, never actually, do it.



Him being so open is what I love to see!! He really us the most private person but the expert at making it seem like he's so open.

Anyways, I think we know what secret he told Tyler in that collab video that one time!!

While I know we're still fresh off the video and that people aren't really picking at things he has said as of yet...is anybody else a little surprised that he's very resolutely gay? And that he's been sure since he was a teenager? I'm just saying, because he said at one point he said he was bi on formspring, so either fibbed then for whatever reason, or changed

I guess those people on Reddit claiming to have pictures of Phil’s supposed girlfriend/wife feel dumb af right now.

Okay but I started crying when I saw the video I love him so much.

Is this actually a thing? I'm sure Janice is shocked at the news.

Yep, see spoiler in quote

Taking this comment in point...I've never read a more out of touch comment (and the ratio of upvotes to downvotes on each comment ) I honestly wish I had this person's confidence:

Ignoring the address comment, which has merit, what the fuck are they talking about? And the follow up:



Like, WHAT pictures? Seriously, WHAT pictures? WHAT planet does this person live on? Is Phil not allowed to have any friends or have a professional relationship with any woman without people automatically saying they are his girlfriend? Do they not understand the wife-Janice meme?

Anyways, I mostly wanted to share this interaction because I couldn't get it out of my mind. Also found a comment saying that they knew Phil from school and he seemed like a nice guy at the time, which was nice to see.

You bet I'm going to stalk their reddit account until they find out. I'll get sick satisfaction, no matter their reaction.

Please report back if they find out and comment on it. I need some of that satisfaction, it sounds delicious.

[jesp]

Unrelated, I'd like to start a petition to remove this emoji from the arsenal:

This is a good point. I'll bring it up with the other mods.

Alright, I've deleted it and am not sad to see it go.

Thanks very much for letting us know about it, knq!

If anyone has any emoticon suggestions - either as a replacement of this one or a brand new one - feel free to suggest them over in the emoticon thread.

[vacule]

What a lovely, quintessentially Phil video. The guilt of being gay despite it being nothing to feel guilty about hit me really hard. It also sounds like he had some friends or family members react not-so-positively when he first came out, but they eventually came around, and I think that he did a really good job of expressing the balance between giving it time and having some hope, but also knowing when enough is enough and to live your life truthfully even if it means cutting out some people.

I'm so curious as to just how open Phil was in his private life about being gay. Would be chuffed to find out if he really does slide it into conversations with his Uber drivers, pizza delivery men and Janice. Can't believe people on the Internet were stressing out about his sexuality with their conspiracy theories and shit whilst he was going around telling his next-door-neighbour he liked dudes. What a Phil thing to do.

[knq]

@jesp Woot! I'm so happy with Pride 2019.

While I know we're still fresh off the video and that people aren't really picking at things he has said as of yet...is anybody else a little surprised that he's very resolutely gay? And that he's been sure since he was a teenager? I'm just saying, because he said at one point he said he was bi on formspring, so either fibbed then for whatever reason, or changed identity. (Nothing wrong with that). There's probably more of a story there, but I suppose that's personal to Phil.

This! I was a little surprised but I was having trouble putting a finger on why I was. Not in a negative way or anything, just I guess I had imagined him as maybe not caring/identifying with any particular label, but I'm happy to be wrong. (Not that I wouldn't be happy if he opted not to label himself, but ykwim.)

I'm on the flip side! Surprised that Phil's been coming out to acquaintances for years, but not at all surprised he comfortably and resolutely identifies as gay. His (adorable) skit about "sideboob" kind of sums it up. I can't think of any time Phil's expressed attraction to a woman. (Including Buffy/SMG, which I see some people poking fun at him for. Admiration but not attraction.)

I also don't doubt that Phil's certainty of himself and how he identifies is one more thing on Dan's long list of reasons he admires Phil.

[Secretstanner]

It’s so strange but I feel like I need to go rewatch all the videos I just spent the past two weeks watching. Literally it does hit different! And somehow it’s like another layer on top of watching it with dan being out. I dunno why because I assumed Phil was queer anyway but it feels like a complete piece of a puzzle? I didn’t expect Phil coming out would hit me so differently than I thought I would. I guess I thought Phil would be the same as dan and find it hard to commit to being gay but he talked about it so causally that I’m floored. Anyway back to rewatch these videos AGAIN!

[snokoplasmic]

On the topic of how Phil interacts with women: In my experience as a lesbian, it's sometimes way easier for a gay person to joke around and "flirt" with people of the opposite sex, because there's no pressure of accidentally leading someone on if they Know that you're fully not interested, y'know? Like, the pressure comes off and you can suddenly make as many risky jokes as you want because there's an understanding between you two that it's nothing but jokes and it just feels a bit freer (lmao tb to me accidentally telling my friend that i voted him for Biggest Heart and Biggest Dick in the yearbook....right in front of his girlfriend bc the boundaries were lowered and I forgot how that would be interpreted (dw I cleared everything up lmao)) to say anything you'd like. I personally don't think that Phil ever really flirted with the women he collabed/otherwise interacted with, but that's just my take on the statement.
Also, Gay Panic/Gay Intimidation is very much real, and that's why I sometimes find it easier to loosen up and get closer to guys -- just a tiny bit, for me, but some male gay friends of mine have expressed the same thing but tenfold just because of the way women tend to be -- so that may be part of why/how Phil is so extremely friendly with women. He may just actually feel more at ease!
This post is kinda messy because I can't properly get the thoughts down, but I hope you can all get the gist of what I'm trying to say lol, Phil Gay and Women Approachable

[nigel ratburn]

like an hour after phil posted his video a giant rainbow appeared in the sky where i am


what a wonderful end to pride month

[rizzo]

I’m just sitting here..... thinking about that signed photo of David Boreanaz that Dan got Phil.

Love it. Love it so much.

[pilotlight]

like an hour after phil posted his video a giant rainbow appeared in the sky where i am


what a wonderful end to pride month

mother nature says lgbtq+ rights!

[feenix]

On the topic of how Phil interacts with women: In my experience as a lesbian, it's sometimes way easier for a gay person to joke around and "flirt" with people of the opposite sex, because there's no pressure of accidentally leading someone on if they Know that you're fully not interested, y'know? Like, the pressure comes off and you can suddenly make as many risky jokes as you want because there's an understanding between you two that it's nothing but jokes and it just feels a bit freer

Totally agreed! I have a male friend who I hold hands with, dance with, cuddle with etc. My fiancee even says we would make an amazing couple (he is basically the male version of her) but it's all fine because I'm SO gay and nothing real would ever happen.

I also think Phil is just a genuinely lovely, friendly and warm person that makes people, including women, feel comfortable.

[Ataraxia25]

I also don't doubt that Phil's certainty of himself and how he identifies is one more thing on Dan's long list of reasons he admires Phil.

Wow, this warms my heart.

On a sadder and angrier note:

I agree with @000dia000 and they said exactly what i thought but didn't say since the beginning of this discussion. I don't understand why some people are mad about dan's comment on TERFs. His comment was directed at people excluding trans people and if you felt attacked, sorry to tell you that you may be a TERF. And in that case, you completely deserve that comment. It really pisses me off that we need to have this discussion. TERFs exist and they can fuck off.

[scientia]

I want more people from the YT community to react!

[Cricket]

Hello! Long lurker first poster, posting a real doozy of a ramble for my first . I almost made a post back when the conversation was about who in their professional circles knew but I ended up not doing it before the conversation moved on. I’m personally not surprised at all that Phil has been casually out to lots of people irl and it actually clears up some stuff that kind of threw me in dans video. The impression I have gotten from them and from other youtubers who have interacted with them had always been that the two of them have been pretty effectively living in a glass closet/been out personally and professionally but not publicly and have been an open industry secret for years (YT industry not bbc although I think many of them suspected/assumed after a certain point). Living that way always comes with a risk of being outed but there’s a difference between being outed by someone you trust to other people in your life and being publicly outed to a widespread audience (both are terrible and should never happen in a perfect world but they are different) and it’s generally harder to do the second one because you have to come with solid proof not just knowledge and it’s almost certain to fuck you over professionally as well because everyone knows you did something reprehensible.

Anyway. After BIG I was left thinking that I must have been wrong about that because clearly dan took much longer to become comfortable with himself and his identity than any of us though so maybe they really haven’t been out to anyone except a select few and everyone else just kind of pieced it together over time because as they both said they haven’t been subtle. But Phil being out for over a decade to pretty much everyone in his life including casual acquaintances clears it up for me entirely. Phil could be privately out but publicly closeted and open about himself while still making it clear that this wasn’t not information he wanted shared publicly and being able to set those firm boundaries, and dan never had to tell anyone anything about himself he didn’t want to share and their relationship never had to be mentioned but people would still know and they didn’t have to do anything elaborate to keep it hidden they just didn’t have to mention or confirm anything and their relationship and dans identity got umbrella protected by Phil’s openness and ability to set boundaries. So lots of people knew but only a trusted few knew everything and to me that makes perfect sense.

[queerofcups]

I hear a lot of folks saying they weren't surprised that Phil was casually out to so many people but I really am! Primarily because we've gotten so few (and none overwhelmingly... Idk credible?) hints or slip ups from people around them? I know there was the Cat thing and possibly Louise saying some questionable things but in comparison to the number of people they interact with, idk man, I'd expect them being queer/together to be way more of an active rumour outside of their fan base than it seemed to be?

Truly I'm wondering if they just had everyone signing NDAs or if they're way less famous than we think of them or what. I have so many questions!

[philliebillie]

OMG THE RAIN HASN'T STOPPED FOR TWO DAYS IN MY SIDE OF THE WORLD BUT WHO NEEDS THE BRIGHT SUN WHEN YOU HAVE PHIL LESTER GLOWING SHINING BRIGHTLY JUST BEING HAPPY AND GAY!

I need to calm down, he just makes me so happy. His video is just so positive and upbeat, he's so cute and all the jokes and subtleties I LOVE HIM. The future is really bright for him (and Dan) and I can't wait for what's to come.

[eevee]

I hear a lot of folks saying they weren't surprised that Phil was casually out to so many people but I really am! Primarily because we've gotten so few (and none overwhelmingly... Idk credible?) hints or slip ups from people around them? I know there was the Cat thing and possibly Louise saying some questionable things but in comparison to the number of people they interact with, idk man, I'd expect them being queer/together to be way more of an active rumour outside of their fan base than it seemed to be?

Truly I'm wondering if they just had everyone signing NDAs or if they're way less famous than we think of them or what. I have so many questions!

this is a very good point. if he was casually out as gay to everyone around him, how did the phandom not pick up on that? we're the best internet sleuths around. maybe we weren't looking very hard because we all thought he was bi? i think i heard one time that someone was saying phil was gay but i think many people shrugged it off like "he's bi" ???? that is kinda weird. i think phil likely told all his friends that he wasn't out in his career/internet persona but....telling local shopkeepers?? and we didn't hear? what else are we missing??

[Cricket]

I hear a lot of folks saying they weren't surprised that Phil was casually out to so many people but I really am! Primarily because we've gotten so few (and none overwhelmingly... Idk credible?) hints or slip ups from people around them? I know there was the Cat thing and possibly Louise saying some questionable things but in comparison to the number of people they interact with, idk man, I'd expect them being queer/together to be way more of an active rumour outside of their fan base than it seemed to be?

Truly I'm wondering if they just had everyone signing NDAs or if they're way less famous than we think of them or what. I have so many questions!

this is a very good point. if he was casually out as gay to everyone around him, how did the phandom not pick up on that? we're the best internet sleuths around. maybe we weren't looking very hard because we all thought he was bi? i think i heard one time that someone was saying phil was gay but i think many people shrugged it off like "he's bi" ???? that is kinda weird. i think phil likely told all his friends that he wasn't out in his career/internet persona but....telling local shopkeepers?? and we didn't hear? what else are we missing??

I said something about this in the, frankly essay, post I made a few up but I think a big part of it is a combination between them not being massively famous outside a particular swathe of the population and it genuinely being pretty difficult to publicly out someone. Phil is smart enough to ascertain if whoever he’s speaking to has any idea who he is so the odds are pretty good that these random folks wouldn’t think to mention it because why go around telling people about random conversations but if they DID or if they realized it later and said something to anyone....why would we believe them? If a shopkeeper is saying ‘oh yeah I’ve met that guy he told me he’s gay’ I think most of us wouldn’t take it seriously AT all. And industry people absolutely have said things alluding to it and the rumors but without something substantial (video or photographic evidence mostly) they’re just going to be seen as trying to cash in on rumors. And if they did have that substantial proof they’d have to know that doing anything with it publicly would be 1) a huge dick move and 2) probably blow up their career and no one who would benefit from the infamy of posting something like that is likely to have gotten close enough to have that evidence imo.

[Omgsonew]

I am sooooooo sosososo excited for the future now that they can be open!! Not just regarding special sexuality-focused interviews or things they might do, but in general they can be as chaotically gay as they want.

Me being a lil boy in love with them as they started their Sims series all those years ago, and being Depression™ about how probably straight they were as they automatically sought a hetero relationship for Dil... I am shook. I can't wait for a world in which they don't have to do things like that, who knows how loud and proud it will get! Now that they can breathe, it feels like we will all be able to breathe.

While I know we're still fresh off the video and that people aren't really picking at things he has said as of yet...is anybody else a little surprised that he's very resolutely gay? And that he's been sure since he was a teenager? I'm just saying, because he said at one point he said he was bi on formspring, so either fibbed then for whatever reason, or changed identity. (Nothing wrong with that). There's probably more of a story there, but I suppose that's personal to Phil. Otherwise, I'm also a little surprised that he's gay due to how much they pushed the whole "girlfriend" thing and that Phil always seemed the more flirtatious or suggestive one around girls. I just wonder how much they were indeed putting on a performance for the audience or just how much people blew it out of proportion. ("Look! He isn't gay, he made eye contact with that female!!") It turns out, Phil was friendly towards women, but never actually flirty...he was just genuinely friendly. Nevertheless, Phil for some reason really is that gay person that goes under the expert "gaydar" of straight people (and maybe even gay people?) in that he isn't what people typically expect a gay guy to be. He never got as much speculation or confusion as Dan, and a lot more people thought he was straight, or at most bi. I'm not sure how other people feel about this, but I'm really interested in talking about it. Thoughts???

I actually was always really confused regarding Phil because no matter how I tried I could never imagine him with a woman romantically? And yet I believed him when he talked about girls, like his 'crush' on Sarah Michelle Gellar. My thoughts were always something like, "I can't believe this guy's not gay..."