Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

[obscureDnPreference]

they really are, there's at least 3 of these accounts 'predicting' things

EDIT:

translates from polish to 'to give you a hint, because you are STUPID. the password is 'itsmyurlwoo. ' '

and

'definitely not for 11 days, more like 7 '

yeah, it's that time of the month in the phandom™ again

Lol my first thought was 'the twitter Phandom is drunk right now.'

[leaveimreading]

i sense an attention war coming lmfao.

to summarize, sillydanandphil is temporarily gone, and we have a new account in place: danandwho, who is claiming to know more. then twitter user dansfilms (can't link to tweet as it's been deleted and i'm on my phone so can't upload the screenshot) claimed they were in charge of the danandwho account and uploaded a screenshot, but turns out they just photoshopped it and they're not affiliated with the account, so danandwho is now going after them and updatedphan. and let's not forget this gem:

good to know i can always count on twitter phandom drama on a boring tuesday

[lishachi]

i sense an attention war coming lmfao.

to summarize, sillydanandphil is temporarily gone, and we have a new account in place: danandwho, who is claiming to know more. then twitter user dansfilms (can't link to tweet as it's been deleted and i'm on my phone so can't upload the screenshot) claimed they were in charge of the danandwho account and uploaded a screenshot, but turns out they just photoshopped it and they're not affiliated with the account, so danandwho is now going after them and updatedphan. and let's not forget this gem:

good to know i can always count on twitter phandom drama on a boring tuesday

jesus christ what is happening

[autumnhearth]

I just wanted to say thank you and I agree with Katka, goingbackto505 and alittledizzy’s earlier posts all three in a row up (and now back) there. I hadn’t looked into what PDP had actually said, because I didn’t want to give him the time of day and don’t care much about YouTube culture and politics, having only discovered D&P a year ago. But seeing it, damn. It’s more than just gross.

I also realize my response is emotional and strongly empathetic, and I care more when I see people hurting, but I love this little community. I’m going to go pick up my first prescription for anti-depressants now. Yay.

Oh god, Twitter phandom, lol. I quoted a bit at my husband who said, “Oh I definitely believe Dan’s seeing someone and wants to get married.”

[dontpanic]

First, YES I love phandom trolls, they're always so fun.

I totally love where this conversation has progressed, I would have hated this getting swept under the rug. I totally sympathize with everyone who feels betrayed by D&P and are rethinking how they see the guys in a moral light. I think one reason, though, there has been a bit of miscommunication on this forum is because sometimes, because they're trying to process their own emotions, people have conflated "excusing pdp's racism" with someone simply giving a reason why they're not disappointed in dan and phil. I'm already a bit confused why I don't have a stronger reaction to this being a black woman, and having a few people suggest that I'm excusing racism just for expressing why I don't mind D&P associating with felix as long as its in private seems counterproductive to heavy subjects like this.

And I know you all see them as "public figures" but at the same time they are still just some guys, some human beings, socially awkward ones at that.

You are definitely right, they are just some guys. They're not guys I know, and I have absolutely no social responsibility to them. I think my expectations of them are actually way, way lower than my expectations would be for someone in my actual life, precisely because they are two strangers on the internet and the decision to support or not support this, to keep viewing or not keep viewing, is one hundred percent in my hands. Dan and Phil don't impact my job, my social life outside of fandom, my relationship, my family. I have to deal with racist people in almost every other aspect of my life and it always comes tangled with some long mess of 'if I publicly go against this person I lose this person and this person' etc and that shit is complicated. This? Isn't complicated. They did something I don't like, I have to decide how far that dislike extends. (And I am going to keep viewing; Dan and Phil are good people in a lot of ways and I'm very invested in them and their life. But I definitely don't think because I'm not unsubscribing that I'm not allowed to still express when I'm frustrated and disappointed.)

I'm just a bit confused about the strength of your reactions. Of course, I'm not feeling too happy about them hanging out with Felix either, but it's still not them saying that it is okay to say that word.

I definitely suggest you go back and read where kuen quoted nihilist-toothepaste's posts, because it is precisely about the fact that different people draw their lines in different places. To some, a person is okay as long as they're not using racist language; to others, condoning someone else who does use those words in such a public way is where the line is drawn. Just because your line is drawn at 'they don't say that word, they're okay' doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else's line to be drawn in a different place,.

But they don't need to be morally superior to the average person for me to feel this way. Considering the extreme reactions of a lot of you guys here, I'm just wondering what kind of transcendental beings the boys were in your head before all of this happened.

Do you really think "don't hang out with the guy whose entire career this year has been having to defend his racist and anti-semitic speech" is transcendental? Because it's definitely not. I don't expect moral superiority from them. I didn't expect a statement; I didn't expect them to publicly condone him. I don't expect them to become poster children for speaking out on any topic, ever. In my opinion 'don't hang out with a racist' is not some highest rung of the ladder type demand. They're not role models to me, they're human beings and this is one area in which I underestimated them as people. I'm now adjusting my perception of them like I would with anyone.

(The other thing in your post that I disagree with is the implication that declining the invite to Marzia's party would have impacted their friendship with PJ. It wouldn't have. This isn't a social group that hangs out every weekend. They see each other once a year, and as many people have said before - it would have been as simple as sticking a card and present in the mail with a "Sorry, we had other plans." I'm not going to quote your post because this is not directly to you, this is a general response to everyone issuing the same argument: They made this decision, there's no need for anyone to make excuses for them around it. If Dan and Phil are okay with still being known as the youtubers who are friends with Felix despite all the damage he's done, then that's what they are and it's not for fans to try and delicately word around to make themselves feel better.)

I don't really have an opinion re: this part, but I understood the original comment to mean just this, that if D&P declined to go to the party they would jeopardize their relationship with PJ because they rarely see him. If they decline to go to an annual friendship tradition thing bc someone who PJ still supports will be there, that would strain their relationship.

[lishachi]

I just wanted to say thank you and I agree with Katka, goingbackto505 and alittledizzy’s earlier posts all three in a row up (and now back) there. I hadn’t looked into what PDP had actually said, because I didn’t want to give him the time of day and don’t care much about YouTube culture and politics, having only discovered D&P a year ago. But seeing it, damn. It’s more than just gross.

I also realize my response is emotional and strongly empathetic, and I care more when I see people hurting, but I love this little community. I’m going to go pick up my first prescription for anti-depressants now. Yay. Oh god, Twitter phandom, lol.

(Good luck with the antidepressants! I'm on them too, they suck for a while but they take some time. Hope things get better. )

I just went through the twitter threads and wow... people are actually freaking out and getting paranoid? The account was supposedly made last night. Jeez.

[leaveimreading]

i sense an attention war coming lmfao.

to summarize, sillydanandphil is temporarily gone, and we have a new account in place: danandwho, who is claiming to know more. then twitter user dansfilms (can't link to tweet as it's been deleted and i'm on my phone so can't upload the screenshot) claimed they were in charge of the danandwho account and uploaded a screenshot, but turns out they just photoshopped it and they're not affiliated with the account, so danandwho is now going after them and updatedphan. and let's not forget this gem:

good to know i can always count on twitter phandom drama on a boring tuesday

seems like the tweets have been deleted so now this post looks weird and i can't upload screenshots ugh. but they're now pretending to be dan and tweeting things like 'see you at the liveshow if i feel like it' and 'you don't have to know where we live and make floor plans of our apartment.' maybe dnp lurk on here after all

[kusunoki masashige]

It really wasn't my intention to belittle other peoples opinions, I just wanted to write down my own thoughts about this matter. Unfortunately I'm not a native speaker, so I guess it's difficult to achieve the intended tone (which, reading Katkas response, I failed completely - though it's hard even in my native tongue). I'm sorry to hear that people who are calling d&p out get shit for it.
I'm neither on twitter nor on tumblr, so this forum is my whole phandom-experience, and so for me it looked like the vast majority was about to leave now.

Also, dontpanic, that was exactly the point I was trying to make with PJ, these last years they only saw him at these birthday events...
(sorry, I wanted to quote, but IDB isn't properly loading and it seems the editing tools don't work for me either..)

[plath]

Sometimes I worry about my maladaptive coping mechanisms, but at least I never pretend to be an internet celebrity to emotionally manipulate a bunch of impressionable 12 year olds ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[VengefulBlue]

Sometimes I worry about my maladaptive coping mechanisms, but at least I never pretend to be an internet celebrity to emotionally manipulate a bunch of impressionable 12 year olds ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

my exact reaction to seeing all this on twitter

[000dia000]

Not impressed by everything, but still amused greatly. If something actually happens in 11 days, the phandom will have a meltdown. Ao much has seemed to happen in the last week, it's been so difficult keeping up. Three whole pages since my last post this morning for me. The sad thing is, not any of this discussion has been any fun. Not to be dramatic, but I wonder if things will take a sharp decline now for deppy? Or could they then this around?

[liola]

I've been wondering for the past couple of days if I wanted to again express my opinion on the Felix discourse because it hasn't changed since my first post. I'm actually struggling to enjoy IDB right now, I'm have an awful week of mourning a relative and awful mental health and I wanted to distract myself and I really can't with the negativity. Which is valid and you all have absolutely every right to it, but personally I haven't enjoyed posting in here and even Phil's video has been tainted with negativity because of it - which in my opinion is a bit absurd because Phil is never open about anything, I don't know what people expected, for him to never make a video ever again until they address Felix? YouTube is their job.

I also don't agree with the comment saying that the fact a POC YouTube not getting enough attention has to be Phil's fault just because he's white. Phil hasn't always had this much success, he's been on YouTube for years and even if someone might find his content not the best it's unfair to say he doesn't work hard for what he does. I understand the disappointment but like..it's not his fault? Should he stop having a carreer because he's white and now successful?

I don't know what people were expecting about Felix honestly. We knew they were going to go, we KNOW they're friends and what should they've done, tell Marzia "nope sorry not gonna pose for your pic?"

I can imagine the comments about that, knowing they hang out but them not being in the picture and people screaming that they're hiding the fact they're hanging out with pdp.

I understand the disappointment, it's absolutely valid to feel hurt, but I think what people tend to forget is that D&P are people. Normal people with normal fuck ups and relationships - and some of them are complicated.

They never wanted to take the role of social justice idols, they never asked to be put on a pedestal and then judged for it. They had a hobby that then turned into a job and it comes with a massive audience and a lot of judgement on anything they do and I feel sorry for them because whatever they do they're wrong.

I am almost hoping they never make a public statement about pdp, because the backslash they'd face would be enormous and I prefer to see the picture as a whole and not just take a detail out of it - I think it's clear they think Felix did wrong. Dan to me made it pretty clear when he said he was gonna see PJ and Sophie and Marzia. He didn't even say his name out loud because he didn't want to give him that kind of power. The only thing the phandom would be happy with is for them to cut all ties with him, and it's not easy to do that when so many other people you care about are tied to that person. It hurts. I don't think they're in a nice situation at all.

I don't even know what I'm trying to say, but it felt wrong to post and ignore the discussion. I ultimately think they're good people, and I honestly don't think Felix is a monster - I think he's an asshole, ignorant child who has no idea of how the world really works because he's extremely privileged, but I don't necessarily think he's evil? MInd you, I couldn't care less about him, I don't watch him, I'm not subscribed to him. I guess I'm used to be in a social context where those kind of slurs are sadly used as jokes and maybe I have a naive opinion on it.

Re twitter drama:I'm ready to have some silliness take over tbh. Bring on some gossip! Bring on some stupid drama! I saw that SillyDanandPhil account on my tl last night and was like "woah they guessed it " and then came back to mystic prophecies lol

[kuensukki]

I think what I find most interesting about this phandom is we can talk pages and pages about accused queerbaiting (and defend it) and suddenly when the issue of race is brought up people are uncomfortable to speak up. They would rather avoid it and try to change the topic than actually give it a thought. It's not even negativity, no one has expressed negativity, just sadness and disappointment. But people seem to be ignoring this subject more than anything else in the world, they want it to FINALLY be done with, which tells me a little something about which issues matter most to the phandom and which issues are erased. Fuck, the supposed dms are getting more talked about than this and yea that sucks. (Again not on idb but other phandom platforms)

The funny thing is even if I'm poc I haven't personally experienced much racism except being called a terroist once or twice or the brown girl (I live in liberal california). I've grown up in primarily white neighborhoods, have always had a good amount of white friends so the issue of it personally affecting me doesn't really hold. I've seen a lot of shit tho (online, on twitter, in documentaries) and that's always made me want to fight harder to make a world where we don't allow for people like Felix to have a voice and have people like dp next to him. I've made sure I understand the issue and try my best to be an ally. My friends, even tho primarily white, will jump in and fight an ignorant person before I even turn my head. And if I'm aware of anyone acting like Felix I would drop them because it goes against who I am as a person.

People keep saying they would be hypocritical if they judged dp, which leads me to believe you guys prob live in areas where racism is the norm so speaking up doesn't do anything. Or you are privileged enough to get away with not caring. It's why you are giving dp the free pass. I just want some understanding because I want some perspective on why I'm bothered by this and many others are not. The reasons I'm seeing right now aren't telling me anything except people fear confrontation and that they believe that avoiding the issue will make it go away.

[parallel]

just dropping in to leave this thread here

guess we'll see what happens in 11 days

lol i really want something to happen in 11 days tbh just for the drama. but yeah, they're 100% bullshitting all of this. either that or it's phil playing an early april fool's joke on us.

Not gonna comment on Felix discourse because the whole situation is pretty mentally taxing on me tbh.

[onetruetrash]

Insider accounts make me cringe. Why can't people just accept that Dan and Phil are normal people? I'd say I've gone pretty deep into the phandom and all I've found is that Dan and Phil are mostly normal people. (except for the fact that they try to hide their relationship from millions of people but that's just my opinion)

[liola]

The funny thing is even if I'm poc I haven't personally experienced much racism except being called a terroist once or twice or the brown girl (I live in liberal california). I've grown up in primarily white neighborhoods, have always had a good amount of white friends so the issue of it personally affecting me doesn't really hold. I've seen a lot of shit tho and that's always made me want to fight harder to make a world where we don't allow for people like Felix to have a voice and have people like dp next to him. My friends, even tho primarily white, will jump in and fight an ignorant person before I even turn my head. And if I'm aware of anyone acting like Felix I would drop them because it goes against who I am as a person. People keep saying they would be hypocritical if they judged dp, which leads me to believe you guys prob live in areas where racism is the norm so speaking up doesn't do anything. Or you are privileged enough to get away with not caring. I just want some understanding because I want some perspective on why I'm bothered by this and many others are not. The reasons I'm seeing right now aren't telling me anything except people fear confrontation and that they believe that avoiding the issue will make it go away.

My opinon is that it's also very cultural based. I live in Italy, this country is pretty racist. Some places are better, some places are worse, the all around is pretty bad, not only with issues of racism but also homophobia, transphobia, hell even stigma about mental health.
Until I turned 18 I lived in Sicily, which is the place where basically all immigrants, trying to enter Europe because they're fleeing from war or just want a better life, arrive. I've spent most of my volunteer times as a teenager at welcoming centers trying to make my part, with other friends alongside me. Some of these people have thrown, and still do, the n-word around. They don't think it's bad. They say they don't mean it, that it doesn't have a meaning to it, and it's just a joke. The same people use mafioso as a joke word. I grimace at it, I dislike it with a passion, they've been told it's not a good thing to do. That behaviour is ignorant and for a lot of people racist, yet these are people that spend most of their free time helping the same people of color. What would you think about that?

What i'm trying to say with this post is that sometimes people are just moron and yes, sometimes people are not as emphatetic to an issue because of cultural context.

[SquishPhan]

I think what I find most interesting about this phandom is we can talk pages and pages about accused queerbaiting (and defend it) and suddenly when the issue of race is brought up people are uncomfortable to speak up. They would rather avoid it and try to change the topic than actually give it a thought. It's not even negativity, no one has expressed negativity, just sadness and disappointment. But people seem to be ignoring this subject more than anything else in the world, they want it to FINALLY be done with, which tells me a little something about which issues matter most to the phandom and which issues are erased. Fuck, the supposed dms are getting more talked about than this and yea that sucks. (Again not on idb but other phandom platforms)

The funny thing is even if I'm poc I haven't personally experienced much racism except being called a terroist once or twice or the brown girl (I live in liberal california). I've grown up in primarily white neighborhoods, have always had a good amount of white friends so the issue of it personally affecting me doesn't really hold. I've seen a lot of shit tho (online, on twitter, in documentaries) and that's always made me want to fight harder to make a world where we don't allow for people like Felix to have a voice and have people like dp next to him. I've made sure I understand the issue and try my best to be an ally. My friends, even tho primarily white, will jump in and fight an ignorant person before I even turn my head. And if I'm aware of anyone acting like Felix I would drop them because it goes against who I am as a person.

People keep saying they would be hypocritical if they judged dp, which leads me to believe you guys prob live in areas where racism is the norm so speaking up doesn't do anything. Or you are privileged enough to get away with not caring. It's why you are giving dp the free pass. I just want some understanding because I want some perspective on why I'm bothered by this and many others are not. The reasons I'm seeing right now aren't telling me anything except people fear confrontation and that they believe that avoiding the issue will make it go away.

For me personally it would be hypocritical to judge Deppy for this, since there are people in my life (such as an uncle) who while they don’t think are racist do use the N word, and I haven’t cut them out of my life and don’t see myself doing that either. Not just because they are family, but because I love them and do enjoy spending time with them. When they use that word, I do tell them not to use that word and try to explain, even if we are at a birthday celebration. Sometimes it works, and other times not so much.
And to be honest, there are people in my life who could kill someone and I would still visit them in prison.
Plus I guess my view on humanity is just, well what I like to call, realistic. People are flawed, and at times they disappoint us and I guess that is just something that I’ve accepted. And other times people surprise in a good way.

[lurkin]

1. My lord the twitter fandom back on their bullshit.

2. Regarding the whole "can't handle when my favs are problematic thing." Look, I've seen D&P be problematic on many occasions. The whole "I'm Mexican" thing. Distasteful jokes in old videos/live streams. The whole nanalew thing. Long text posts and dms, basically a good portion of 2012-2013, Charlieskies, Dan's video with Carrie (lmao), the Japan merch, the list continues. I've seen the two of them fuck up, criticized it, took a step back, and moved on. They've apologized, deleted videos, posts, tweets, realigned their views.

My issue comes with this whole almost self-proclaimed "woke" thing Dan's got going on. Phil's always been silent for the most part, which can be an issue but is besides the point right now. Dan's become more outspoken about politics, equal rights, identity, and so forth. I don't think he's a big moral figure whose example we should all follow, but he's made it known where he stands and who he aligns with and supports. And what I see now is that stance becoming a little inconvenient for him, him applying more exceptions and loopholes. I don't expect him to be perfect; the whole "problematic dad" thing I cringed at and let slide. The whole silence thing I let slide. But this, this openly public event with Felix and everyone, is different. The early on damage control that he did alongside his usual diversion thing to avoid stalkers puts a very bad taste in my mouth. The fact that he said in the LS what he was planning to do, immediately went into defense mode about it, makes me think that Dan knows that it's a "problematic" move that insinuates a lot of things that will create problems and still chose to do it anyway. That whole "I'll talk to him" thing was a joke, and was an attempt to placate us. Claiming to give Felix a talking to (especially so far out from the actual event) makes you as much of a social justice hero as retweeting pictures of Women's March dogs, which is not at all.

I know it's difficult to drop problematic friends. I'm not angry that he's finding this whole thing difficult to navigate. I'm angry that he knows exactly what he's doing, and when he realized that we probably wouldn't be too happy about it, he backtracked and tried to come up with things to diffuse the tension that he caused and ultimately is going to try to sweep it under the rug. As a WOC, I think myself and many other POC who are speaking out about this are rightfully angry. And I definitely think that public figures, especially those in a position of privilege who have voiced their support for social justice issues, should be held morally accountable for their actions.

edit: some grammar things

[blackdenim]

I think what I find most interesting about this phandom is we can talk pages and pages about accused queerbaiting (and defend it) and suddenly when the issue of race is brought up people are uncomfortable to speak up. They would rather avoid it and try to change the topic than actually give it a thought. It's not even negativity, no one has expressed negativity, just sadness and disappointment. But people seem to be ignoring this subject more than anything else in the world, they want it to FINALLY be done with, which tells me a little something about which issues matter most to the phandom and which issues are erased. Fuck, the supposed dms are getting more talked about than this and yea that sucks. (Again not on idb but other phandom platforms)

This!

My issue comes with this whole almost self-proclaimed "woke" thing Dan's got going on. Phil's always been silent for the most part, which can be an issue but is besides the point right now. Dan's become more outspoken about politics, equal rights, identity, and so forth. I don't think he's a big moral figure whose example we should all follow, but he's made it known where he stands and who he aligns with and supports. And what I see now is that stance becoming a little inconvenient for him, him applying more exceptions and loopholes. I don't expect him to be perfect; the whole "problematic dad" thing I cringed at and let slide. The whole silence thing I let slide. But this, this openly public event with Felix and everyone, is different. The early on damage control that he did alongside his usual diversion thing to avoid stalkers puts a very bad taste in my mouth. The fact that he said in the LS what he was planning to do, immediately went into defense mode about it, makes me think that Dan knows that it's a "problematic" move that insinuates a lot of things that will create problems and still chose to do it anyway. That whole "I'll talk to him" thing was a joke, and was an attempt to placate us. Claiming to give Felix a talking to (especially so far out from the actual event) makes you as much of a social justice hero as retweeting pictures of Women's March dogs, which is not at all.

And also this are the crux of my feelings on the matter. No one wants to talk about this because it's a racism issue. You can bet your asses that if D&P had been hanging out with known homophobes/transphobes this weekend there'd be an extreme reaction from almost everyone here and not many people would be saying 'well they didn't say [insert homophobic slur here] themselves, so it's fine'. You can also bet your ass that if someone had come into this thread last week saying "I think they were queerbaiting in the Truth Bombs video because of X, Y and Z reasons" there would have been an almighty discussion about that too. The horrible truth is that racism affects less people in the Phandom than homophobia, sexism and the queerbaiting issue, so it's easier to 'forgive' Dan and Phil for tacitly endorsing racism than it would be those things. I don't think it's irrational to point that out (and also no one has said they will stop being a fan; those of us who feel negatively are just expressing disappointment that people we are fans of don't meet standards we might set for our selves and our IRL friends).

And the point is that I don't think anyone would be so disappointed if Dan hadn't spent so much of his time harping on social issues. @lurkin covers that above far better than I ever could but really... it makes me wonder how much of Dan's 'woke'-ness is for the audience and how much of it goes out the window at the first sign of hard work? No one is even saying he has to be woke - the point is that he loves us to all believe he is and then where there is an opportunity for him to make a stand or publicly speak out about an issue, he does squat.

(I promise when we start the new thread I'm not going to talk about this anymore because I feel like I'm drawing the conversation out but I feel so strongly! From now on, I'm gonna go back to the 2 flats theory which I hold so dear to my heart.)

[goingbackto505]

lol I'm sorry for bringing this whole mess up again (I probably shouldn't tbh), but in case anyone wanted to know but didn't get the chance to see the whole 'twitter phannie drama' in action, I had to go do something and accidentally forgot to close the tab with the twitter search for "danandwho" (I know, I know, it's dumb but I had nothing better to do a few hours ago, apparently ), so I just got to screenshot some of the tweets they deleted:

plus apparently they also tweeted this, idk:

what I find very weird though is the "phan iz reelz" tweet because I remembered about the existence of the exact same one from last year because people on my tl found it this summer

okay, now please carry on with the a lot more important discussions (bc all of this is like 99,99% bullshit for attention either way)!

[obscureDnPreference]

(I know there is a super important convo happening here but here's a super average Phil + food tweet)

edit bc I didn't realize how tiny font size 'tiny' was.

[leaveimreading]

(I know there is a super important convo happening here but here's a super average Phil + food tweet)

edit bc I didn't realize how tiny font size 'tiny' was.

theres a theory that they tweeted a bunch of predictions when they went on private and then deleted the untrue ones and went public again, but this is still interesting

[citizen_erased]

Bit of a continuation of the racism discussion under the spoiler.

I think what I find most interesting about this phandom is we can talk pages and pages about accused queerbaiting (and defend it) and suddenly when the issue of race is brought up people are uncomfortable to speak up. They would rather avoid it and try to change the topic than actually give it a thought. It's not even negativity, no one has expressed negativity, just sadness and disappointment. But people seem to be ignoring this subject more than anything else in the world, they want it to FINALLY be done with, which tells me a little something about which issues matter most to the phandom and which issues are erased. Fuck, the supposed dms are getting more talked about than this and yea that sucks. (Again not on idb but other phandom platforms)

The funny thing is even if I'm poc I haven't personally experienced much racism except being called a terroist once or twice or the brown girl (I live in liberal california). I've grown up in primarily white neighborhoods, have always had a good amount of white friends so the issue of it personally affecting me doesn't really hold. I've seen a lot of shit tho (online, on twitter, in documentaries) and that's always made me want to fight harder to make a world where we don't allow for people like Felix to have a voice and have people like dp next to him. I've made sure I understand the issue and try my best to be an ally. My friends, even tho primarily white, will jump in and fight an ignorant person before I even turn my head. And if I'm aware of anyone acting like Felix I would drop them because it goes against who I am as a person.

People keep saying they would be hypocritical if they judged dp, which leads me to believe you guys prob live in areas where racism is the norm so speaking up doesn't do anything. Or you are privileged enough to get away with not caring. It's why you are giving dp the free pass. I just want some understanding because I want some perspective on why I'm bothered by this and many others are not. The reasons I'm seeing right now aren't telling me anything except people fear confrontation and that they believe that avoiding the issue will make it go away.

For me personally it would be hypocritical to judge Deppy for this, since there are people in my life (such as an uncle) who while they don’t think are racist do use the N word, and I haven’t cut them out of my life and don’t see myself doing that either. Not just because they are family, but because I love them and do enjoy spending time with them. When they use that word, I do tell them not to use that word and try to explain, even if we are at a birthday celebration. Sometimes it works, and other times not so much.
And to be honest, there are people in my life who could kill someone and I would still visit them in prison.
Plus I guess my view on humanity is just, well what I like to call, realistic. People are flawed, and at times they disappoint us and I guess that is just something that I’ve accepted. And other times people surprise in a good way.

Same here, I live an area in the Netherlands where racism is the norm. Right now the muslims have it especially tough but honestly everyone who's "foreign" is kind of squinted at here. Even my own family can be incredibly racist (right down to my brother once joking he'd leave refugees standing at the busstop if he was the bus driver). Out here, all you get for trying to point out racism is very angry people shouting at you that they're "not racist, I just don't trust foreigners" (real quote, not exaggerated). So I tend to not bother, and in my reference frame most people will be racist/homophobic/ableist/incredibly problematic until proven otherwise. I have never cut someone out of my life for this, I'd have no one left.

I guess that's a big part of why I'm way more lenient towards Dan & Phil for this. Everyone judges from their own frame of reference, and my experience is that pretty much everyone fucks up every now and then because that's what humans do. But I've seen people I used to really look up to get arrested, be sued, and just generally turning out to be awful, awful people. I know the Felix thing is a big deal that ties into a much bigger picture, but I see people around me casually use the n-word and much worse all the time, so I guess I'm just not at all surprised and I wouldn't cut those people out of my own life. Which, again, I know isn't comparable because I'm not an influential white dude with millions of followers, but still. Dan & Phil are also just people.

Again, not condoning Felix's actions, I think he's a vile person who should not have this big of a platform and it terrifies me that he does have this much influence.

I'm loving the twitter drama thank you random bored twitter people for putting this weird stuff out there

[Birdie]

Sometimes I worry about my maladaptive coping mechanisms, but at least I never pretend to be an internet celebrity to emotionally manipulate a bunch of impressionable 12 year olds ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

my exact reaction to seeing all this on twitter

I go away for a few hours and the Twitter phandom breaks down. Yeah, like Dan would've no better way of criticising his own fandom than making a cryptic Twitter account, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ indeed and also yikes.

Btw I'm not going to stop liking D&P over this Felix thing and I'm pretty sure 90% of the people who expressed their disappointment here won't either. This has been an amazingly civil and eloquent discussion and I think talking about it helped most of us form our own opinions on it and figuring out how to deal with it. What I've taken away from the discussion is that most of us were really sure this wouldn't happen, therefore we were shocked when it did. Dizzy said something about having to readjust the way we see them and that's exactly it, for me at least. I'll wait what happens from here on out, if and how they'll address it, if and how they'll keep in touch with Felix etc. but right now we don't know how this will play out so we're all a bit on edge I guess?

[dontpanic]

I hardly think dan is pretending to be woke... I see a man who is currently working to understand the world, his privledge in it, and trying hard to make himself a better person. He doesn't preach shit, he talks through things... his gender roll talk when he was wearing the wig is a good example. I firmly believe he wasn't doing that for show, he was expressing his evolving view on a social issue.

He doesn't make preachy videos trying to be woke, he talks about these things in live shows. If he wanted to be known as the woke guy he would make videos on those things, if he wanted to Monetize his fake woke views he'd make way more money doing a main channel vid.

Lately I've tried to be an optimistic person, so I choose to hope that dan is just sharing his journey to understanding injustices and his role in society. That means he's still going to do "problematic" things, I'd be more inclined to think he's disingenuous if he DIDNT stumble every once in a while.

I am 100% certain he does sometimes problematic things, just like in 100% certain You do, just like I'm 100% certain I do.

Also FFS I'm surprised I feel The urge to defend him now... I've always hated when people got defensive about idols in other fandoms I've been in... but gosh we treat Dan so harshly sometimes.

(Look at me trying to defend a rich white boy, what has my life come to)

I think what I find most interesting about this phandom is we can talk pages and pages about accused queerbaiting (and defend it) and suddenly when the issue of race is brought up people are uncomfortable to speak up. They would rather avoid it and try to change the topic than actually give it a thought. It's not even negativity, no one has expressed negativity, just sadness and disappointment. But people seem to be ignoring this subject more than anything else in the world, they want it to FINALLY be done with, which tells me a little something about which issues matter most to the phandom and which issues are erased. Fuck, the supposed dms are getting more talked about than this and yea that sucks. (Again not on idb but other phandom platforms)

The funny thing is even if I'm poc I haven't personally experienced much racism except being called a terroist once or twice or the brown girl (I live in liberal california). I've grown up in primarily white neighborhoods, have always had a good amount of white friends so the issue of it personally affecting me doesn't really hold. I've seen a lot of shit tho (online, on twitter, in documentaries) and that's always made me want to fight harder to make a world where we don't allow for people like Felix to have a voice and have people like dp next to him. I've made sure I understand the issue and try my best to be an ally. My friends, even tho primarily white, will jump in and fight an ignorant person before I even turn my head. And if I'm aware of anyone acting like Felix I would drop them because it goes against who I am as a person.

People keep saying they would be hypocritical if they judged dp, which leads me to believe you guys prob live in areas where racism is the norm so speaking up doesn't do anything. Or you are privileged enough to get away with not caring. It's why you are giving dp the free pass. I just want some understanding because I want some perspective on why I'm bothered by this and many others are not. The reasons I'm seeing right now aren't telling me anything except people fear confrontation and that they believe that avoiding the issue will make it go away.

I wanted to express some things u pointed out in ur above statement but I couldn't figure out how, so thank u!! After really reflecting on it, I think a big part of why I'm not as hurt as I am is because I grew up poor black and gay (super fun combo to have lol) yet I was super privledged to be a scholarship kid at a very white catholic high school... so racism is just a norm I had to face, I became almost desensitized.

Tbh I resonate way too much with the one girl in "dear white people" who I forgot the name of but if u saw it ud know who I'm talking about.

since I've experienced so many counts of racism rooted in legitimate hatred, pure hatred, I feel just too tired to care about pdp's deal. I watched the clip in question, and I used to watch him up until about 2 years ago, and I can tell that his racist actions aren't rooted in hate... it's willful ignorance. That's kinda why I almost like him hanging out with people like pj and deppy... maybe they won't outright talk to him about it but they won't be an echo chamber, they won't laugh or joke around if he pulls out his alt-right bull. An echo chamber of ignorance can slowly turn a person making his racist actions into a truly racist, hate fueled person. Those are the people I'm terrified of.

Don't take this as me saying y'alls hurt ain't valid, this is just my perspective on the whole thing.


IAlso off topic but It's so funny how I often both disagree yet agree with all ur posts (I mean this in a good way). You always point out things I can't figure out how to express yet at the same time I'm not sure if I feel that way or if I just want to feel that way. Idk what I'm even trying to say lol