Dan & Phil Part 61: The 2017 Mince Pie Codex

[relatablemood]

I think the criticism of Poptropica is a little harsh. It's not just a game for children! It's thought of as such but I (as a 16 y/o) have played it on and off since I was 9, and my older sister (4 year age gap) also used to play up until she was about 18. It's actually quite challenging and there are all these walkthroughs online, presumably written by adults. Oops I sound like such a Rick & Morty fan: Poptropica online game edition.

I just suspect some of you might be more upset because you haven't heard of the game before and only got to see the shitty tutorial, more so than any other reason, but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am).

Also don't want to go in-depth on the Phil and his age thing, because I've made comments before expressing my discomfort and a lot of it was misguided. I think it all kinda goes around in circles too, between teens and parents and all those in between defending or attacking Phil's family-friendly/cheeky chappy dual persona. I say leave it awhile, the occasional sex jokes he makes are, as people said, rare and fly over kids' heads. It's if it continues to his mid-30s that I'd get concerned like, sort your branding out mate so you get the appropriate audiences.

[yellowsubmarine]

I couldn't watch the video yesterday because I was outside but I did check everyone's responses and got absolutely discouraged, like, dreading to watch it.
Watched it today and... it wasn't that bad? A 4/10 at most but it wasn't a complete miss for me. The first like, 7 minutes were entertaining. I found kinda cute the way Phil was making Dan laugh with his trying to "keep up with the memes" earlier on. The pie sex comment wasn't even that bad, and mile-high club comment went completely over my head (I had to look it up on Google... what does it actually refer to... is it some cult movie reference?)

It wasn't that bad, but it was pretty meh. Also I think they were actually trying to get into the game or make it entertaining, but that's just me.

EDIT: nevermind, I answered my own question. It's like and inside joke between flight attendants and pilots.

[Catallena]

I wish they wouldn't rely on the youtube comments - I don't really care what their subscribers want them to play, I want Dan and Phil to play what they want to play. And I don't mean 'what they want to play for leisure in their spare time', I mean 'what they want to play on the gaming channel'. I'm someone who's here more for the bants than I am for the games, but what I crave is a sense of genuineness and authenticity, and this video (and Shelter, if I'm being completely honest) have felt a bit empty to me.

And there's still something creepy about grown men joining platforms like these made as safe spaces for kids.. D&P don't have bad intentions, but they might inspire other adults to check it out and be weird there

In connection to this: I've recently been a bit irritated by their (especially Phil's) sexual comments. Don't get me wrong, I am an adult and don't have a problem with it and welcome more mature & less "persona" content. At the same time I find it weird that they make videos that cater to a younger audience (like this one) and then talk about pie sex and mile high club. Their stage show is for all ages and they meet kids for Make a Wish that don't seem much older than 12 - but then their online content is becoming more and more mature.
I don't have kids or younger siblings so it's hard for me to tell if something is actually inappropriate. What do you guys think? I know that some of you have children who watch the content, how do you handle the increase of sexual comments (they aren't even innuendos anymore at this point)?

Side fact: The average age in the D&P survey was 16.6 years with a standard deviation of 3.6, which means that roughly 2/3 of the "phandom" audience are between 13 and 20 years old.

I don't care about that at all. D&P's intentions are fine and they're making entertainment for teens who hear a lot worse than whatever comes out of their mouths. That's also the demographic who probably requested this, not actual kids. Kids could see it when they search for Poptropica, but it's up to parents to monitor things like that. My only concern is inspiring other adults to invade a platform for children where it actually could do harm. Hopefully everyone behaves.

I don't actually think Dan and Phil meant for this to be children's content - they referred to it nonstop as a nostalgia game and referenced how people used to play this from like 2006 to 2012 - meaning that in their eyes, the people enjoying the video most would be people in their mid to late teens right now who played it when they were younger. I didn't get any impression at all that they intended on people 6-12, in the actual demographic to enjoy the game as it is currently, to be the ones they were appealing to. So in that regard the humor doesn't bother me at all.

I also agree with people saying that Dan's been like this all along. I don't think Phil suddenly joining in on an element that's been established by Dan since the beginning of the channel should make a staggering difference in what is age appropriate or not.

I agree with this, the game is meant for children but this video definitely wasn't. It was most likely requested by people who are now in their late teens, and D&P's version of more mature humor is tame to that crowd. Of course actual children could stumble upon this video when searching for Poptropia online, but that's just the internet.. they're far more likely to run into My Little Pony or Pokémon porn than a gaming video with some mild adult humor. Adult humor goes hand in hand with nostalgia, because you see things differently now than when you were a kid. There's nothing wrong with that.

[malday]

I don't actually think Dan and Phil meant for this to be children's content - they referred to it nonstop as a nostalgia game and referenced how people used to play this from like 2006 to 2012 - meaning that in their eyes, the people enjoying the video most would be people in their mid to late teens right now who played it when they were younger. I didn't get any impression at all that they intended on people 6-12, in the actual demographic to enjoy the game as it is currently, to be the ones they were appealing to. So in that regard the humor doesn't bother me at all.

That's how i understood it too, it was requested by those who have nostalgia playing it not by those that they are playing it now.

Technically, under 13 shouldn't even be on youtube, and if their parents allowed them to be then there's worse things they should worry about them hearing/seeing like racist/sexist/homophobic slurs and gratuitous violence, than someone saying the word "sex".

[fieldoflovers]

I wish they wouldn't rely on the youtube comments - I don't really care what their subscribers want them to play, I want Dan and Phil to play what they want to play. And I don't mean 'what they want to play for leisure in their spare time', I mean 'what they want to play on the gaming channel'. I'm someone who's here more for the bants than I am for the games, but what I crave is a sense of genuineness and authenticity, and this video (and Shelter, if I'm being completely honest) have felt a bit empty to me.

And there's still something creepy about grown men joining platforms like these made as safe spaces for kids.. D&P don't have bad intentions, but they might inspire other adults to check it out and be weird there

In connection to this: I've recently been a bit irritated by their (especially Phil's) sexual comments. Don't get me wrong, I am an adult and don't have a problem with it and welcome more mature & less "persona" content. At the same time I find it weird that they make videos that cater to a younger audience (like this one) and then talk about pie sex and mile high club. Their stage show is for all ages and they meet kids for Make a Wish that don't seem much older than 12 - but then their online content is becoming more and more mature.
I don't have kids or younger siblings so it's hard for me to tell if something is actually inappropriate. What do you guys think? I know that some of you have children who watch the content, how do you handle the increase of sexual comments (they aren't even innuendos anymore at this point)?

Side fact: The average age in the D&P survey was 16.6 years with a standard deviation of 3.6, which means that roughly 2/3 of the "phandom" audience are between 13 and 20 years old.

I think that you need to give younger fans more credit because growing up online they are exposed to everything at a younger age. Dan and Phil are honestly really inoffensive especially if kids are watching YouTube gaming. I was a 12 year old on YouTube as well and I was watching Shane Dawson sketches which are the opposite of kid- friendly and a lot of Jenna Marbles (my mom found one her videos once, said it was funny but told me not to watch it) so tbh kids are going to stumble upon content that's adult and that's fine. Honestly I'd be really happy if a younger sibling watched Dan and Phil over PewDiePie or Jake Paul *shrudders*. I think that kids grow up now being able to handle that kind of humor and idk I always tend to disagree with parental restrictions or arbitrary age restrictions.

[blackdenim]

I don't think anyone here thinks teens aren't mature enough for the content, or that children understand sex jokes. Personally, I was just thinking that I, as a nearly 30 year old woman, would feel uncomfortable making a sex joke to a room full of (mainly) teenagers, some younger children, and a few assorted adults. I would feel uncomfortable talking to a 14, 15, 16, even 17 or 18 year old about the 'mile high club' or sex with a pie, no matter how innocently the joke was meant, or how funny they found it, and I feel uncomfortable watching Dan and Phil as 26 and nearly 31 year old men do the same, particularly in the conext of them playing a game that was originally designed for a young audience - because it reminds me their audience is quite young (compared to me at least!)

It's not a big deal, it's just a reason some people didn't enjoy the video, I guess.

[dancy]

Phil is playing a demo of Hello Neighbor on Steam right now, so I'm guessing that'll be tomorrow's video? I quite like that game, so I'm excited

[saffarinda]

I think y’all are either underestimating how much kids know about sexual topics, or overestimating their ability to recognise innuendos, paticularly if they don’t have the base knowledge of the sexual topics.

think about how many kids movies have innuendos for the adults to enjoy.

@Catallena someone correct me if i’m wrong, but i don’t think poptropica has the ability to freely speak and only has pre-set options with other players, so i don’t really see a problem with people of any age going on it - paticularly when it doesn’t put the child at risk.

@fieldoflovers yeah i was watching content considered much more inappropriate for children when i was wayyy younger. i think the game was a tad dull, but i wasn’t bothered at all by the jokes - they were what made it great for me.

@blackdenim dnp aren’t having face to face interaction with their audience though. i’m sure they’d feel somewhat uncomfortable making those jokes to younger people irl... but they’re not. they’re just joking with one another on camera. if their ratings dropped significantly as a result, they’d stop, but i don’t think some innuendos spoken on camera do much, if any, harm.

[Secretstanner]

I don't think anyone here thinks teens aren't mature enough for the content, or that children understand sex jokes. Personally, I was just thinking that I, as a nearly 30 year old woman, would feel uncomfortable making a sex joke to a room full of (mainly) teenagers, some younger children, and a few assorted adults. I would feel uncomfortable talking to a 14, 15, 16, even 17 or 18 year old about the 'mile high club' or sex with a pie, no matter how innocently the joke was meant, or how funny they found it, and I feel uncomfortable watching Dan and Phil as 26 and nearly 31 year old men do the same, particularly in the conext of them playing a game that was originally designed for a young audience - because it reminds me their audience is quite young (compared to me at least!)

It's not a big deal, it's just a reason some people didn't enjoy the video, I guess.

But this shows that they cant never win! Mainly Phil So many times I see people complaining phil playing the innocent and never swearing in videos is weird and creepy and he should act his age, but when he does act more grown up with his humour is weird because they have a part of their audience that is young. They don’t target their videos too “children” and I don’t know how much of their audience is 13 and younger but are they meant to ignore the part of their audience that is teens and older? Why is it now phil makes a sexual joke people are finding it unsettling? Why can dan get away with it? As someone said he jokes about kinks! Choking kinks, pain kinks, daddy kinks. Etc in mario cart he said “I love putting shells up my ass” who’s your daddy he was saying to phil “hit me with it” about the ‘strange rubber object’.

I understand people have said it’s because this game they played was for kids so it was inappropriate so is that the reason. or would you find it just as bad if they played it in a game that was made for teenagers?

Also I think the only reason people tolerated this video was because of the jokes they made because other than that it would of been bland af

[vincentian]

Poptropica video was a miss for me because I just coudn't understand what was happening in the game, but same goes for Club Penguin and some other videos they made before.

I think this year gamingmas is just not a priority for them. Like, they are busy with tour organisation and decided not to stress too much. I remember they were way more set on being festive in each video and promoted it way more last year.

Also, a big part of this might just be the fact that for whatever reasons their videos aren't getting as many views over 24 hours as they used to. They naturally have less motivation to sweat over the quality of content. I'm not defending doop and poop here, just trying to rationalise what I see. But I hope gamingmas will pick up, it's only the beginning.

[hello9217]

Going to break from the current topic because I voiced my opinions on the matter and I liked hearing everyone else’s thoughts. But tumblr just released top web celebrities of 2017 and Phil ended up beating dan, Phil came in second while dan came in fourth. I guess I just found that interesting because it doesn’t really happen often. Maybe it’s because Phil released more videos this year so there was more to talk about.

Also The NY Times released an article talking about the top ships on Tumblr. It was pretty bad considering it’s an adult writing about shipping culture, who obviously just researched it instead of having first hand knowledge. Anyways Dan and Phil were mentioned in there as the number 5 or 6 most shipped people and they misspelled Dan’s name once.

[hello9217]

Also, a big part of this might just be the fact that for whatever reasons their videos aren't getting as many views over 24 hours as they used to. They naturally have less motivation to sweat over the quality of content. I'm not defending doop and poop here, just trying to rationalise what I see. But I hope gamingmas will pick up, it's only the beginning.

Sorry for the double post but I think this is just gaming content in general on YouTube. Like in 2014 the algorithm favored gamers so they got a ridiculous amount but now it seems to favor vloggers. Like if you look at Jacksepticeye, who has 14 million more subscribers than deppy, they are literally getting the same number of views. Plus since a re-watch is not counted as view anymore it just appears to be less.

[liola]

Jeez this turned negative really fast.

All I have to say on the matter is that the phandom has been criticizing Phil for years for his childlike persona, and as soon as he starts letting it go now it's inappropriate?

The thing is, Dan and Phil never actively catered to a younger fanbase. They, especially Dan, make innuendos quite a lot, talk about adult things, curse every 2 minutes. Nothing about the screams "i'm thinking about a younger audience when filming my videos" and they shouldn't. The fact that a big chunk of their audience is made of teenagers doesn't mean that they have to adapt their content to them, honestly. So I truly don't understand what we're talking about here

Really hoping there's a video tonight and it's an engaging one. I admit I mostly watch them for their chemistry, so I usually don't really care what they play, but I love videogames so I would really really enjoy an actual platform game instead of quizzes and such. However, I still appreciate that they're filming, editing and posting videos everyday, just like I did last year

[saffarinda]

Going to break from the current topic because I voiced my opinions on the matter and I liked hearing everyone else’s thoughts. But tumblr just released top web celebrities of 2017 and Phil ended up beating dan, Phil came in second while dan came in fourth. I guess I just found that interesting because it doesn’t really happen often. Maybe it’s because Phil released more videos this year so there was more to talk about.

Also The NY Times released an article talking about the top ships on Tumblr. It was pretty bad considering it’s an adult writing about shipping culture, who obviously just researched it instead of having first hand knowledge. Anyways Dan and Phil were mentioned in there as the number 5 or 6 most shipped people and they misspelled Dan’s name once.

i actually burst out laughing, how tf can you misspell Dan

phil beating dan is interesting! although phil does post more content, i would’ve assumed vids such as “dan and depression” would’ve created more discussion. what’s it based on though? the number of times a celeb is tagged?

also did a quick google of hello neighbough and it looks interesting! can’t wait for that vid

[yellowsubmarine]

Going to break from the current topic because I voiced my opinions on the matter and I liked hearing everyone else’s thoughts. But tumblr just released top web celebrities of 2017 and Phil ended up beating dan, Phil came in second while dan came in fourth. I guess I just found that interesting because it doesn’t really happen often. Maybe it’s because Phil released more videos this year so there was more to talk about.

Also The NY Times released an article talking about the top ships on Tumblr. It was pretty bad considering it’s an adult writing about shipping culture, who obviously just researched it instead of having first hand knowledge. Anyways Dan and Phil were mentioned in there as the number 5 or 6 most shipped people and they misspelled Dan’s name once.

That's so interesting because I was literally about to read the article. I just side-eye every major news site that does articles like that, because it's totally catering to the youngsters and just asking for clicks. But hey, that's fandom. As for the tumblr thing eeh maybe, Phil did that viewers pick my outfits video and there were a lot of notes everywhere. Also people tag him more now so he can reblog their fanart. But yay good to know they're still going strong over there.

[fancybum]

Also, a big part of this might just be the fact that for whatever reasons their videos aren't getting as many views over 24 hours as they used to. They naturally have less motivation to sweat over the quality of content. I'm not defending doop and poop here, just trying to rationalise what I see. But I hope gamingmas will pick up, it's only the beginning.

Sorry for the double post but I think this is just gaming content in general on YouTube. Like in 2014 the algorithm favored gamers so they got a ridiculous amount but now it seems to favor vloggers. Like if you look at Jacksepticeye, who has 14 million more subscribers than deppy, they are literally getting the same number of views. Plus since a re-watch is not counted as view anymore it just appears to be less.

Wait, is this actual fact? That doesn't seem like it could be correct; views are all about ads, and if I watch a video 5 times (and sit through ads 5 times), it has to count as 5 views. Anything else makes no sense. Are there any reputable links to info on this?

[alittledizzy]

Also, a big part of this might just be the fact that for whatever reasons their videos aren't getting as many views over 24 hours as they used to. They naturally have less motivation to sweat over the quality of content. I'm not defending doop and poop here, just trying to rationalise what I see. But I hope gamingmas will pick up, it's only the beginning.

Sorry for the double post but I think this is just gaming content in general on YouTube. Like in 2014 the algorithm favored gamers so they got a ridiculous amount but now it seems to favor vloggers. Like if you look at Jacksepticeye, who has 14 million more subscribers than deppy, they are literally getting the same number of views. Plus since a re-watch is not counted as view anymore it just appears to be less.

Wait, is this actual fact? That doesn't seem like it could be correct; views are all about ads, and if I watch a video 5 times (and sit through ads 5 times), it has to count as 5 views. Anything else makes no sense. Are there any reputable links to info on this?

I asked about this on tumblr recently and got nothing but conflicting answers, though just from trying it myself if I watch a video (with not a small amount of views, that I'm quite sure I'm the only one watching) and refresh in the same browser or hit replay as soon as it's done the view count didn't go up. If I opened an incognito window and watched it there, it did, though.

Doesn't make much sense to me. My assumption would be the same as what you just said, each time you have to sit through an ad should be a new view.

[hello9217]

Also, a big part of this might just be the fact that for whatever reasons their videos aren't getting as many views over 24 hours as they used to. They naturally have less motivation to sweat over the quality of content. I'm not defending doop and poop here, just trying to rationalise what I see. But I hope gamingmas will pick up, it's only the beginning.

Sorry for the double post but I think this is just gaming content in general on YouTube. Like in 2014 the algorithm favored gamers so they got a ridiculous amount but now it seems to favor vloggers. Like if you look at Jacksepticeye, who has 14 million more subscribers than deppy, they are literally getting the same number of views. Plus since a re-watch is not counted as view anymore it just appears to be less.

Wait, is this actual fact? That doesn't seem like it could be correct; views are all about ads, and if I watch a video 5 times (and sit through ads 5 times), it has to count as 5 views. Anything else makes no sense. Are there any reputable links to info on this?

If you are logged on to your account after the third re-watch it will stop counting your views. Obviously if you aren’t logged on it won’t know that your watching it on repeat but I’ll link an article that I read that discusses YouTube and how it tracks views

https://growtraffic.com/blog/2017/08/yo ... ounts-view

[Kimship]

Also The NY Times released an article talking about the top ships on Tumblr. It was pretty bad considering it’s an adult writing about shipping culture, who obviously just researched it instead of having first hand knowledge.

I just want to point out that shipping culture(if you go back to those '70s zines) has involved adults for nearly 50 years. Now, mainstream articles(and probs this one, too) are still usually awful because they tend to come at them like blundering culture tourists, but that's from them being outsiders who don't do thorough enough research, not from them being adults. Tumblr culture doesn't seem that different to me than earlier shipping communities and cultures. You get the same squeeing and encouragement. And the same flamewars and abuse.

[malday]

As far as i'm aware, youtube counts a view based on how much of the video you watch, it doesn't matter if you watch the whole video or how many ads you have sat through, but no one really knows how long you have to watch for it to count as a view because there is no official word on it.

[fieldoflovers]

Going to break from the current topic because I voiced my opinions on the matter and I liked hearing everyone else’s thoughts. But tumblr just released top web celebrities of 2017 and Phil ended up beating dan, Phil came in second while dan came in fourth. I guess I just found that interesting because it doesn’t really happen often. Maybe it’s because Phil released more videos this year so there was more to talk about.

Also The NY Times released an article talking about the top ships on Tumblr. It was pretty bad considering it’s an adult writing about shipping culture, who obviously just researched it instead of having first hand knowledge. Anyways Dan and Phil were mentioned in there as the number 5 or 6 most shipped people and they misspelled Dan’s name once.

I'm happy they're both in the top 5. I guess the phandom isn't dying as people have said it was.
Though in terms of shipping Phan is at #4 (last year it was #2 so that's interesting.

I have a question though, onision was #30 and new to the list but like why? does anyone know if he has an active fandom or something? I'm just confused lol

As for mainstream media covering fandoms, I'm generally really skeptical but the only ones I've been okay with comes from the podcast "fansplaining" which talks about fandoms. The hosts sometimes write articles for medium and I think because they understand the community it generally isn't bad at all.
edit: just realized the NYTimes article was written by the ladies at fansplaining, guess that means I'm going to read it now

[Kimship]

edit: just realized the NYTimes article was written by the ladies at fansplaining, guess that means I'm going to read it now

Oh, I love fansplaining(although I'm super behind on my podcasts, since I've been listening to either audiobooks or old deppy liveshows, instead)! I'll have to check it out.

edit: I also like Shipper's Guide to the Galaxy on youtube. She's very level-headed and non-judgmental when she covers topics.

[alittledizzy]

[liola]

They've been pushing the dog agenda so much lately, I swear if next year they don't get a dog nothing I know will be real anymore. Like I truly don't understand why they're still renting GET A HOUSE AND A DOG YOU DAMN WELL KNOW YOU WANT TO

[000dia000]

Again, people overthink content aimed at kids. Young people are some of the most sexual people you ever meet, mostly because it's the age they first learn about it and do everything they can to get a hold of new information. Any real young people who watch their videos, wouldn't get the joke, and any young person who finds it too sexual, would just turn it off: they have self-filter. They aren't the worst thing online, they are bloody tame. I think the worst thing that could happen is someone misunderstanding a statement as something innocent, then use it in the wrong context. Embarrassing for them, but they learn. And they aren't "exposing" kids to this stuff either, children actively seek out sexual things. Anybody with kids, reading this forum: your kids probably do look at weird things, and if they don't, they're the ones who figured out how to delete the history.

Also: Phil. Doesn't. Make. Children's. Content.

Phil just doesn't like to curse, and he's self-aware of young people watching his videos. He can't stop them, so he wants to at least be a good influence as best as he can. Choosing to not swear isn't a sign of immaturity, it's him cleaning his content for the benefit of his audience. At least if Phil can make you laugh, it isn't because he's throwing around swears around. If you're creeped out by Phil, can you just not watch his content anymore. It actually makes me [uncomfortable that people think it's okay to call him weird for nothing he has done, for no good reason, only that he doesn't swear in his videos?!