Dan & Phil Part 67: Laughter, Food and Sex

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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rizzo
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I finally finished the LS and I feel like my opinion just adds to the din, but I just really wanna say my piece.

It mostly left me feeling frustrated. Frustrated, because if I hear another controversial comment out of his mouth followed by "it's fine", I might scream. Frustrated, because I was equally as uncomfortable listening to him as he clearly was saying all of that. Does he actually want to be more open or does he want to keep the doors closed on his private life and his "true self"? (Not that being more open means telling everyone you like to suck dick, but moreso that it means you don't try to over-explain something you at one point decided to put out into the world.) I'm frustrated because he's clearly frustrated with himself.

And while I find it practically impossible to believe that he ~totally didn't catch the dick joke~, I briefly want to take it at face value and play a bit of devil's advocate. Presuming he really, genuinely didn't mean to do that, it's still painful watching someone put that much care and effort into disproving it. I mean, he prepared a clip to show us! Who needed that? Absolutely no one. Accidentally implying you like giving blowjobs is not something that needs to be retracted in such a dedicated way, especially not by someone who preaches equality, self-acceptance, no kink-shaming, etc, etc, what-have-you. That's what gets me more than anything: that he needed to take it back regardless of the why. No one was taking it poorly. And frankly, the people watching your live shows are not the ones that would be offended by it. Congrats, you meant ass. Woop-dee-fuckin'-do.

I also just really think he needs to practice what he preaches in terms of the way he perceives his own content. Relax, take a deep breath, be a happy little duckling, and don't let unnecessary stress get to you. Being in a demandingly creative field like his is rough af and I understand that he wants to garner respect outside of people who watch for #phan. But this is the same channel that has done Buzzfeed quizzes and the same channel that continues to get millions of casual views for just plain honest, funny, and relatable content. Releasing something and then freaking the fuck out about it and needing to do a bullshit damage control LS is an action unreflective of what I think he wants his "truth" to be. If he's proud of his video and what he said in it, he should let it breathe. The dick jokes will eventually die down. After all, people still talked about the overall message in some capacity.

So IDK. Pull it together, Dan. Meditate a bit. I believe in you. A lot. But watching this kind of thing happen at least once a year is emotionally draining.
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thewaytobehappy
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Haven't watched the ls, but been reading the comments over breakfast.

Legitimately snorted at the suggestion of him getting a crew for filming/editing to meet ~*quality standards*~

Sweety, that's the least of your problems.

Your problem is barely uploading.
Your problem is 8 years into your career not being able to stay on a shedule.
Your problem is 8 years into your career still not knowing how to handle your audience in a professional way.
Your problem is a bizarre quality threshold for your mediocore content.
Your problem is your obsession with image over substance.

Don't waste money on a crew until you really worked on that.

Putting that aside. I saw a comment on tumblr that intrigued me. It mentioned that, with the changed landscape in terms of acceptance of the queer community and a wider choice of entertainment, Dan could be at serious risk of losing followers if he keeps doing this. What do you guys think?
Last edited by thewaytobehappy on Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ratlad
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aifos wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:44 pm Hello, I know this is only my second post, but I just need to rant.
I think Dan wants the best of both worlds. He wants the General Audience to think he's just a #reletable guy, and he wants "the phandom" to feel connected to him and I think he feels neutral about the "really involved" fans knowing he's not straight. and maybe he's happy to share that part of himself with that portion of his audience.
BUT. it seems like when he says or does things that could potentially get out of the "phandom" and into the real world, he backtracks and denies everything just to the point where it's not really denied, but not really confirmed either. And in this case it hurt, because, he made that joke! He put it in the video! He can't tell me that I shouldn't have focused on that part of the video, that it wasn't important, because guess what?? It was the most interesting thing about that video! And it made me happy because it seemed like he felt confident enough to have that kind of joke with THAT meaning out there on his MAIN channel. And I'm just sad that now he says that "it's funny this, it's funny that".... He knew how we would interpret that sentence but he said it anyway!! He can't blame us if we focused more on that! he said he wants his videos to be personal too and that was the only real personal thing in that video! and I understand that maybe he was anxious and stressed, but that can't be an excuse if he literally prepared the video showing he said ass right there, he could have prepared what to say and HOW to say it better.
Look, I'm Italian, it's half past midnght so coherently writing in another language is not going to end well, and i know I'm exaggerating, but I just feel betrayed in a sense? I was happy that this person I admired made that explicit joke that couldn't be denied, while i struggle to understand and accept my sexuality. I know it's not his job to make me feel better, he doesn't owe me anything. But just this once I was happy that fucking homophobes finally "couldn't take this away from us" (for lack of a better term) but, with what he said tonight, there are still going to be people who believe that is straight, unless he doesn't explicitly SHOUT in their faces that he isn't.
In the end I guess I'm just sad that we have to live in a world where someone has to be cautious about what they say regarding their sexuality if they want to be accapted by everyone and in his case be successful and not lose fans.
Thank you if anybody read this, i don't expect any replies, i just needed to get it out of my chest
!!!! this!!!! 100% :respekt2: <3
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Yawn
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Honestly this was one of the stronger 'no homo's we've gotten from him in a while, he definitely did not mean this to be some kind of low-key coming out video. If he is straight, I honestly do think he needs to tell people. Enough is enough with this sort of half-flirting with queerness followed by backtracking.

Perhaps due to Dan's political stances he's almost uncomfortable with being seen as a wealthy, attractive, cishet white guy. But considering that's probably what he is, it's better to own it rather than keeping the waters muddy. You can still be an ally, and only the most extreme people will see him differently.
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Yawn wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:53 am Honestly this was one of the stronger 'no homo's we've gotten from him in a while, he definitely did not mean this to be some kind of low-key coming out video. If he is straight, I honestly do think he needs to tell people. Enough is enough with this sort of half-flirting with queerness followed by backtracking.

Perhaps due to Dan's political stances he's almost uncomfortable with being seen as a wealthy, attractive, cishet white guy. But considering that's probably what he is, it's better to own it rather than keeping the waters muddy. You can still be an ally, and only the most extreme people will see him differently.
Honestly you’re right, straight people should start to bear the burden of being required to also make coming out videos and I can’t think of a straighter person to start that trend than Daniel Howell, good thinking. This is what progress and open-mindedness and logic all look like, right there in your post. Thank you.
Thanks and have a great day! Oil me
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I didn't watch the live show because I can't handle Dan when he's talking down to his audience but if he is going through a hard time then he should seriously consider stepping away a bit. To start with Dan't tweet about the live show rubbed me the wrong way because even though he says he's joking we all know that Dan does use the wider audience to gain validation and that just makes me sad. He's never going to please everyone and he is definitely not going to please himself if he's always trying so hard.

regarding his videos: If he wants "Daniel Howell" to be about comedy then he should put serious videos on his side channel because he obviously can't get his point across any other way. People won't be confused if he tells us that he's only going to be posting 'comedic' videos and he won't feel the need to explain to us how we misinterpreted his words. that he says multiple times. and writes in the title. and keeps in after editing.

on merch: His merch will be based on his branding so black clothes, maybe nail polish if he wants to pander, and most definitely will be "aesthetic." I already posted my thoughts on what I think of him and his ideas on merch but admittedly I will be judging him just a little when he fills his twitter and tumblr timeline with daniel howell #spon when he couldn't do the same for the joint merchandise. Phil may be Capita£ester but at least he owns it and he does the spon for both of them.

editing: sigh. I hope they don't go this route. I don't know how Dan could go this route. He has told us more than once that he is a control freak so giving up editing and filming to someone else? Why?
I would also hope Phil doesn't go this route either. He has a masters. If he wanted to brush up on editing he could. They both could. ...don't really have more to say on this.

other (negative) thoughts: if this is the absolute last tour I am glad. They are having a hard time juggling their current content and their tour and if they are planning on making videos and keeping their joint branding after tour then I hope they figure out how to balance their lives and their audience better. If this tour is it for joint branding and DnP are going to do different things I'll be sad that the last few months before tour were such a tragic mess but I guess we'll all find a way to go on.
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parallel
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I am pissed off at Dan and won't pretend I'm not. I'm also emotional and as a result don't want to make any Big Statements until I've calmed down and sorted out my head, but since this is just a forum, I thought I'd vent all my thoughts here.

First of all, Dan's rant was the least tactful way of phrasing whatever the hell he wants to convey. It's patronising and also clearly, for a large part, staged so Dan can convince us of what he wants us to think. What a coincidence, you were in the directory of the ass video already! And, sweetie, if your partner's ass is a "thing going in and out of your mouth", then your partner needs to see a doctor as they have a rectal prolapse.

It's strange to me that he wanted to say ass because everyone has an ass, and used the word "inclusive". Like, what? We're talking about who you have sex with. That doesn't have to include everyone. I mean, if he didn't want to specify that he's having sex with someone who has a penis, sure, but his wording about saying ass vs "something" is just weird to me. Sure, we all say poorly phrased stuff on the spot, I guess.

I can see why people are making the connection to 2012 what with Dan trying to go "oh how silly, my audience is construing this from something I've said!" but I don't like comparing all bad situations with 2012. He's backtracking on something he said implying queerness, something he's only done in recent years. And he backtracks a lot and I'm not surprised one bit. As they say: disappointed, but not surprised.

That all being said, I don't like people saying that what he did was somehow homophobic or harmful to his queer viewers. Queer YouTubers shouldn't have to choose between being either out or LGBTQIA+ advocates, and their identities don't exist to validate yours. Find a different source of validation; it shouldn't rely on some YouTuber anyway. I don't think what he did was right, but please don't say he's somehow done a disservice to queer people. I also don't feel like it's a no-homo either, because he immediately went on to talk about queer media, so it really doesn't sound like he's trying to make people think he's straight. Also, not all men have penises anyway, and not all people with penises are men.

I think, if I made a video which was likely very personal to me and made one (1) sex joke and everyone was focusing on that instead of the video, I would be pissed off, just would handle it differently. Yes, there was nothing interesting about the video, but it was clearly quite a personal, philosophical topic for Dan, and our reaction might not have been the one he intended. Obviously the dick association had to be on purpose (come on Dan, neither of us are that stupid), but that wasn't the focus of the video either. At least, Dan didn't see it as such.
hello9217 wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:56 pm
liola wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:49 pm Idk If its just the phandom knew jerk reaction to it or I'm just rereading quotes of what he said etc but my mood is dropping and I'm seeing everything in a bad light. Honestly it makes me sad how often Dan live shows make me anxious, some times because of how he talks but most of the times because of the reactions.

That said, if this is how people react every time, I don't blame Phil for not being open about things. At least he never backtracks on anything? His approach might be extra slow but is steadier. I wish we had a liveshow of Phil instead.


I'm gonna ignore everything #phandivorce and solo merch meaning they will move out and things like that cause that just makes me roll my eyes tbh
Honestly this!!! Like the boy may not talk as openly or as readily as Dan does but at least when he says something he sticks to it.
"You and Dan are so married" Phil blushes and giggles
Phil talks about how boys are cute and just owns it. He doesn't backtrack, he doesn't patronize his audience, and if someone took a comment he made one way then he just lets them think what they want.
I just wish Dan could adopt this sort of attitude.
Exactly this! Dan's great sometimes, but he's not consistent. Phil is consistent and doesn't backtrack like this.
Yawn wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:53 am Honestly this was one of the stronger 'no homo's we've gotten from him in a while, he definitely did not mean this to be some kind of low-key coming out video. If he is straight, I honestly do think he needs to tell people. Enough is enough with this sort of half-flirting with queerness followed by backtracking.

Perhaps due to Dan's political stances he's almost uncomfortable with being seen as a wealthy, attractive, cishet white guy. But considering that's probably what he is, it's better to own it rather than keeping the waters muddy. You can still be an ally, and only the most extreme people will see him differently.
lmfaoooo, yes, my fav hetero youtuber, daniel spaniel howell
thewaytobehappy wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:29 am Haven't watched the ls, but been reading the comments over breakfast.

Legitimately snorted at the suggestion of him getting a crew for filming/editing to meet ~*quality standards*~

Sweety, that's the least of your problems.

Your problem is barely uploading.
Your problem is 8 years into your career not being able to stay on a shedule.
Your problem is 8 years into your career still not knowing how to handle your audience in a professional way.
Your problem is a bizarre quality threshold for your mediocore content.
Your problem is your obsession with image over substance.

Don't waste money on a crew until you really worked on that.

Putting that aside. I saw a comment on tumblr that intrigued me. It mentioned that, with the changed landscape in terms of acceptance of the queer community and a wider choice of entertainment, Dan could be at serious risk of losing followers if he keeps doing this. What do you guys think?
This, so fucking much. You don't need a camera crew, Dan. You're not that special.

Also, on the topic of getting a cameraperson, I really would prefer Dan wouldn't because I do like the homemade aspect of their videos. I appreciate him going out of his way to mention it to us first though as opposed to just doing fuck-it-all and whatever he feels like doing.

---

I apologise in advance for this mess of a post. It's nearly 6am and I've really fucked up my sleep schedule, rip.
so_cheesy
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Good Lord he seemed SO uncomfortable trying to explain the video about 10 minutes in. I could clearly hear a gulp and his voice almost cracking nervously a few times, while moving in the chair visibly uncomfortable, saying “it’s funny” a million times. It was so hard to watch I literally went to bed instead.

It felt like the time when he tried to explain liking the bottom tweet, but worse.

As many others I’m disappointed too.
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sapienveneficus
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hello9217 wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:07 pm Going back on what he said in his last video, making it clear that it's the last dan and phil tour, and solo dan merch modeled by friends (that we presumably don't know) idk this ls left me with a lot of feelings and not good ones...
I'm late to the party, as usual (just another benefit of timezones+work), but I completely agree. I've noticed a, for lack of a better word, tonal shift in Dan's liveshows this year. He still rambles a good deal, nothing new there, but there's been a lot less Phil talk. Initially, I'd assumed that this shift was a conscious choise to make their private lives more private in the new year before the next move (I'm still on board the Move 2.0 train), but something about his tone at the end of this video got me worried. Granted, Dan and Phil, have always had separate YouTube channels, but professionally (and personally) they've been a package deal for years. So why is Dan suddenly making his own merch and having people other than him and Cornelia model it? Why is he even considering getting an editor or director (either would be the end of his YouTube career, btw)? When he began that last bit of the liveshow talking about wanting to maybe try standup, I thought, "What a great idea. I'll bet it would be fun for him to stretch his creative wings a little. He should totally try that after the tour's over." But then he transitioned into talking about wanting to be more like Anthony and Lily (which, take one look at their audience engagement stats, BAD IDEA) and creating his own merch. That whole last discussion left a bad taste in my mouth. I get that he's waffling and talking an stream of consciousness fashion, but I'm officially worried that something is up behind the scenes.
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daichii
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I stopped watching Dan's ls a long time ago because they are honestly way too stressful. I think his last vid had very generic advise and yeah for him it was probably groundbreaking info so I get where he's coming from when he said that people only focused on the "joke".

However, he seems as someone else pointed out very out of touch from his audience because I did not see any post making fun of it but people were actually proud, happy and feeling represented and like they could talk about their truths. Which he must know that in the phandom most teenagers (and even the not so young) struggle with their gender and sexuality so it just seems to me very insensitive that he needs to go out of his way to defend it. I totally understand how bad it must feel to have the comment being dismissed and in some way being reprimanded by him. It's way too close to shaming for me and I don't like it at all. Dude def needs some PR lessons from Phil.
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forgive me, i;m slightly intoxicated and just haven't had the time to read all the pages of responses to this mess but,.....i'm disappointed. i was so affected by the latest video that i genuinely came out to my parents...and now this. there's no part of me that believes that both dan and phil watched that video and didn 't come to immedite conclusions that those jokes were about sucking dick. there's ALSO no part of me that believes they wouldn't know the phandom's general reaction to that sort of comment no matter if he only made it twice in a 6 minute (short, dan....that's short) video. so i'm left with nothing.

genuinely thought the jokes were part of him living his truth and i certainly don't think they're stupid enough to not have foreseen the reaction....i'm going nowhere here just trying to find an answer and i really don't have one.
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It feels like I say this any time after Dan posts any solo content at this point (which is really sad to me) -- but if Dan really makes some people in the phandom so angry, unhappy, etc. anytime he posts something, why do they still watch it? I'm not even trying to be sassy, like genuinely I don't understand why?

It's one thing to be frustrated with something, and even post about it -- I want to make it clear that I don't think people shouldn't be voicing an opinion -- but at this point it seems excessive. Just on here theres paragraphs upon paragraphs and pages upon pages of people just being negative (and not going to call anyone out but in some cases just downright hateful) towards Dan. I try to avoid twitter and tumblr phandom as much as possible, but i can only imagine its worse there. It's stessful to be in a community of fans that are being so extremely negative about the very person you're all supposed to be a fan of. AGAIN, not saying its bad to be critical of someone you're a fan of, but this is A LOT.

To quote SHITiveHITtheFANdom -- "perhaps cut the man some fucking slack?" I couldn't have said it any better myself. Is it disappoing? Yes. Did it feel like a backtrack? Yes. Does that mean we all need to get out our pitchforks and go after Dan? I don't think so. He's made it pretty clear he's been really struggling with depression lately, can you really blame him for having a reaction like that? I know from my experience, when i'm in a depressive episode, even just a small reaction from one person about something i've said can seem like a Big Deal -- imagine that times the 1.3mil views on his video (and counting). His statement about it wasn't mean or attacking, he even said he's "not trying to shame anyone." I understand being disappointed but I just don't understand the anger.
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ratlad
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i watched him when he was live, and then went on a manic 5 hour tumblr spree of shitposting my anxieties. I've since then calmed down, thankfully..
even during the ls, i didn't get "no homo" vibes, but I don't believe him when he says he had no clue that people would think he was talking about a dick in his mouth. he also technically didn't even deny it, but i think he had last second anxiety and impulsively decided on a liveshow. i honestly would have preferred a gaming vid tbh. i was shot with anxiety throughout the entire thing, he usually gives that vibe off and it was so clear he was trying to do some damage control.
he definitely is not straight, nor do i think he is trying to make people believe he is. i also believe dan and phil are in a relationship (for many logical reasons, not just because they look at each other fondly. i can seriously compile a list of my reasonings)
as for the merch thing, it's just merch. how are people getting a "phan divorce" from that? if it's something they wanted to do 2 years ago, i wouldn't count on the fact that they are moving away from each other to separate homes with their wives. if anything, it would expand their creativity and give people more options of a certain aesthetic other than DnP-referenced stuff (which i sometimes find cringey...)
also for this being the last tour, how does that at all mean "the end" ? they stated that tatinof wanted to be the last one, but they still continued after that. what do you expect them to do? do a world tour every year?
about the camera and editing crew, I don't think he was saying it's a definite thing, it sounded to me like he was just entertaining the thought of "what if?" because he did mention people enjoying their own editing and filming. I don't really think he's going to do it. but i don't want to make anymore assumptions or try to understand anything that boy says. who am i kidding i will continue to over analyze everything
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KatjaZoe wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:35 am It feels like I say this any time after Dan posts any solo content at this point (which is really sad to me) -- but if Dan really makes some people in the phandom so angry, unhappy, etc. anytime he posts something, why do they still watch it? I'm not even trying to be sassy, like genuinely I don't understand why?

It's one thing to be frustrated with something, and even post about it -- I want to make it clear that I don't think people shouldn't be voicing an opinion -- but at this point it seems excessive. Just on here theres paragraphs upon paragraphs and pages upon pages of people just being negative (and not going to call anyone out but in some cases just downright hateful) towards Dan. I try to avoid twitter and tumblr phandom as much as possible, but i can only imagine its worse there. It's stessful to be in a community of fans that are being so extremely negative about the very person you're all supposed to be a fan of. AGAIN, not saying its bad to be critical of someone you're a fan of, but this is A LOT.

To quote SHITiveHITtheFANdom -- "perhaps cut the man some fucking slack?" I couldn't have said it any better myself. Is it disappoing? Yes. Did it feel like a backtrack? Yes. Does that mean we all need to get out our pitchforks and go after Dan? I don't think so. He's made it pretty clear he's been really struggling with depression lately, can you really blame him for having a reaction like that? I know from my experience, when i'm in a depressive episode, even just a small reaction from one person about something i've said can seem like a Big Deal -- imagine that times the 1.3mil views on his video (and counting). His statement about it wasn't mean or attacking, he even said he's "not trying to shame anyone." I understand being disappointed but I just don't understand the anger.
I can't speak for anyone else but most of the time I like Dan. I understand he is going through depression and I feel for him, I enjoy his content, and when he isn't being patronizing I even like his live shows. I even left a comment on his last video that I thought it was brave of him to take baby steps.
So my opinions and feelings aren't because I don't like Dan but because I do like him and expect him to respect his fanbase.

The thing with this video is that nobody knew what it was going to be. Dan made the decision to make this video and post it all on his own. Dan also made the decision to go to his live show audience, an audience that he knows is his most loyal, the people that draw art and buy his merch, the 2% that would have loved a side video talking about minced pies, the people that support him when he pulls a "Dan", and he was condescending and dismissive.

I'm disappointed because I thought we were mostly past this. I haven't been this put off since last year when he made it a point to mock his live show audience with the story of wearing Phil's jacket and again it was a story nobody asked for.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hate that in one breath Dan tells a reporter that his audience is smart (when it comes to buying his board game and selling his merch anyway) but when it comes to understanding something in a video we all got it all wrong and couldn't be more off the mark. You know, maybe we were wrong. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there because I'm not him and I don't know his thoughts, but would it have killed him to show us basic respect by waiting until his emotions died down and then explaining it in a logical way?
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Yikes.

I'm very conflicted - I empathize and I know Dan has been struggling lately, but... the handling of this was a hot mess. I feel really sad for him, but also frustrated as all hell.

Firstly - him having the ass version of the video pulled up and ready to go just really rubbed me the wrong way. That in itself came off as very defensive to me.

I'm also really fucking struggling to wrap my head around how he expects anyone to believe that the joke was misinterpreted in some way? The joke makes zero fucking sense without it being about fellatio. He wants to call himself the "King of Overthinking" and yet - neither he nor Phil realized what was being implied in this video multiple times before he posted it? Sure, Jan. :roll:
parallel wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:45 am And, sweetie, if your partner's ass is a "thing going in and out of your mouth", then your partner needs to see a doctor as they have a rectal prolapse.

It's strange to me that he wanted to say ass because everyone has an ass, and used the word "inclusive". Like, what? We're talking about who you have sex with. That doesn't have to include everyone. I mean, if he didn't want to specify that he's having sex with someone who has a penis, sure, but his wording about saying ass vs "something" is just weird to me. Sure, we all say poorly phrased stuff on the spot, I guess.
I fucking cackled at this.

The ass bit was just so very bizarre to me - why would he acknowledge that he knows that saying 'ass' is more inclusive to all genders and then... not just use that take? If he wanted to stay ambiguous, then he should have left the entire 'in and out of my mouth' thing on the chopping block. I don't buy that he found the in and out of my mouth thing less vulgar.

Too late to edit my post (I wasn't finished, urgh what a mess!) to quote but +1 to everything Amiaw said.
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So after sleeping on it, I gotta say I mainly feel sad for him.

It was obvious how uncomfortable and anxious he was, and I think whoever said it here, its very accurate that he seems to really struggle with how much he wants to reveal and how much he actually wants to keep secret. Which you know - from personal experience, reminds me a lot of my ups and downs during times where my mental health was a struggle.

I really wish that dan would allow himself to see more of the positive - I do genuinely think that he gets so fixated on the comments that in his eyes make a joke out of a video that was supposedly really important to him - and with that I don't mean the people who had intelligent discussions about his sexuality and what this video meant - and more the people on twitter ect who went "lol1 he said he sucks dick #phan". Which was in my eyes only a minority, but depression and anxiety is a funny thing - pulling your focus on the smallest details and making them into a big deal.
I wish he could see the positive impact he has, but I feel like he tends to either not see that or not let that close to him - once again very understandable - I noticed that even with his depression video.

I think part of why yesterday comes across as so awkwardly is because I think even while he is saying it he is frustrated with himself over it. And god I wish I could shake him and tell him to chill out and to focus on other things, but his mind obviously won't let him do that. Watching it back though made me realise that his refusal to talk about the first actual sex comment (which was the one that for many actually grabbed their attention) shows just how split he is on it.

I don't know, I just feel a bit bad for him and frustrated. But so does obviously he.

In terms of people being worried about deppy going separate ways or it feeling a bit doom and gloomy: I think that can also be attributed to dan not feeling well. I can only assume that the stress of the impending tour is getting to him again, which sort of resulted in that new low. But for everyone worried - just look at the gaming videos. They've been more and more open there, even this year, so I have no worries that theres actually something wrong between them.

I think its Dans brain and mind playing tricks on him with everything... and in turn playing tricks on us. Which is sad, but I can't really be mad at him for that.
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aifos
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lemon something wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:19 am Dan should know how important representation is for queer people, especially young queer people - it's not something you play around with and retract when you feel like it. I guess some people were saying "lol penises", but I was seeing people feeling their identities were being validated. People seeing that you can be proud of your identity as a queer person and being inspired to come out and make steps towards living their truths. Dan sharing his identity with people who could see themselves reflected in him was important and meaningful and people listened to what he said with open hearts. If he genuinely didn't mean to imply he was talking about penises anywhere in the video (I know, I know, of course he did but let's just hypothesise for a moment), then the kind, responsible, thoughtful thing to do would be nothing. Just let it go, because "not that there's anything wrong with it, but just let me pull out my carefully prepared evidence" implies there really is something wrong with it. I'm disappointed in him.

@aifos I loved your post btw.
thank you, and you said what I wanted to say but 10 times better :stan:
Secretstanner
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I can’t say anything that hasn’t been said already. I guess im just confused and need to take a step back. I have not watched the liveshow and I don’t even know if I will. I think most of us are on the same page where we don’t really see that we did anything wrong. I saw so many posts about him finally being about to be his true self and it was amazing to read and retweet but now I dunno how to feel. Because you can see if from two ways and I still dont know which I see it as. Is he fully baiting us with the things that he says?! Or is he a confused boy that just doesn’t know how to deal with himself. I would have more sympathy for him if he wasnt so condescending and patronising to his audience. I think his main audience is extremely intelligent and the way he talks down to them sometimes is very upsetting. I wish some people that wrote on here would go put their posts in the comment section on his liveshow. I don’t think he understands his audience at all and i wish he could read some of the things on here. This is a very basic post but I just don’t know how to feel right now.
Secretstanner
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Secretstanner wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:32 am I can’t say anything that hasn’t been said already. I guess im just confused and need to take a step back. I have not watched the liveshow and I don’t even know if I will. I think most of us are on the same page where we don’t really see that we did anything wrong. I saw so many posts about him finally being about to be his true self and it was amazing to read and retweet but now I dunno how to feel. Because you can see if from two ways and I still dont know which I see it as. Is he fully baiting us with the things that he says?! Or is he a confused boy that just doesn’t know how to deal with himself. I would have more sympathy for him if he wasnt so condescending and patronising to his audience. I think his main audience is extremely intelligent and the way he talks down to them sometimes is very upsetting. I wish some people that wrote on here would go put their posts in the comment section on his liveshow. I don’t think he understands his audience at all and i wish he could read some of the things on here. This is a very basic post but I just don’t know how to feel right now.
Edit: If anyone could give me the times for this liveshow where he stops talking about his video that would be great. I would like to watch but I would like to just skip the whole thing because it will cause me to get upset and id rather listen to what else he has to say.
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LtrllySusan
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I guess I was a bit too sleepy while watching yesterday, but I do see the problem now.

Something that I've been wondering about already and that is now reinforced by both his behaviour regarding the dick stuff and by the comment about hiring professionals - does Dan even enjoy making videos anymore?

He seems to be looking for a very specific kind of validation from his audience that he thinks he's not getting. He is clearly procrastinating from working on videos and just generally seems to treat it like this special, out of this world process. There's always this odd "I suffer for your entertainment" vibe that you could interpret in different ways.

He was stressed about making this video, was unhappy with the response he saw, and is now probably not glad about all the post-LS discussion either.

Why is he doing it then?
Are we his customers or his supportive friends?
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missemma
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If I have to see the words “phandivorce, no-homo or antiphan” again today then I might scream. Like seriously people are over reacting a lot about what he said when it comes to the dick discussion. Yes I found it patronising when he said “it’s funny really”, I always find it patronising when he does something serious and then comes along being Mr Jo King but I wouldn’t go so far to @ him and be angry about it. I had to mute the words “dan” and “liveshow” on twitter last night because I was fed up and kind of disgusted about how some people were reacting.

I’ve also rewatched some of the liveshow this morning and I don’t think he really back tracked anymore, he doesn’t specify it wasn’t about penis at all. I know he had a video lined up to show us but maybe he felt anxious or worried. He said himself he changes his mind constantly, so seeing everyone get hyped over one bit of the video whilst missing (what seemed like to him) some big important message probably caused him some anxiety and he over thought everything. I think we should cut him some slack personally.
:prideheart: :gayaf: :prideheart:
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parallel
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KatjaZoe wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:35 amTo quote SHITiveHITtheFANdom -- "perhaps cut the man some fucking slack?" I couldn't have said it any better myself. Is it disappoing? Yes. Did it feel like a backtrack? Yes. Does that mean we all need to get out our pitchforks and go after Dan? I don't think so. He's made it pretty clear he's been really struggling with depression lately, can you really blame him for having a reaction like that? I know from my experience, when i'm in a depressive episode, even just a small reaction from one person about something i've said can seem like a Big Deal -- imagine that times the 1.3mil views on his video (and counting). His statement about it wasn't mean or attacking, he even said he's "not trying to shame anyone." I understand being disappointed but I just don't understand the anger.
I also do dumb shit I regret when I'm depressed. I have regretted saying so many things that I acknowledge were wrong, and I acknowledge that some of them weren't black and white situations either and that there might have been reasons out of my control that I acted that way, but I still apologised and admitted that I fucked up. I'm gonna hold Dan accountable if he does bad things. I think a lot of people act like people are rioting on the streets when we're just mostly having mature discourse over this. There're levels of bad things, and some bad things are worse than others. If anyone was to act like Dan had killed someone or otherwise equated this to something far worse, then obviously I would be against that, but we're all being (mostly) respectful to Dan and nobody has overstepped boundaries that far. We're allowed to criticise people for doing things that aren't good, even if they might have been depressed at the time. I am all for cutting mentally ill people slack in everyday things like not being able to get out of bed or not being able to attend a social function, but I don't think that should extend to things that affect others. Yes, this mostly affects Dan, but it also affects his viewers when he puts the blame on them for somehow misconstruing his message (when he must've been fully aware of the implications) and acting condescending as if we're all just obsessed with the idea of him sucking dick. No, Dan, you put that idea out there in the first place. The Phandom can be very inappropriate and I try to call that out when I see it, but this time Dan was the one who put that out there. It's not our fault we're talking about a dick in your mouth; you were the one who brought that up.
ahriem
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i actually enjoyed the ls so the reaction confused me last night and i stayed up far too late thinking about what 'patronising' means. he was frustrated that people focused on a minor aspect of the video but nothing he said seemed patronising or like he was backtracking to me and the rest of it was the usual rambling i find relaxing to listen to.

one aspect i haven't seen discussed in relation to the ls or video is that they are going on tour this year and the tour includes at least two countries with strong anti-lgbt sentiments and/or laws. too much focus on and speculation about the subject could lead to cancelled shows at best and safety risks for them, their team and their fans at worst. small pockets of discussions on tumblr and dedicated forums is one thing but twitter or youtube blowing up with that sort of comment is on another level of visibility. did they know people were going to react to those parts? yeah, probably, but that's different from being able to predict what the intensity of the response will be.
Secretstanner
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ahriem wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:39 am he was frustrated that people focused on a minor aspect of the video
Maybe people focused on it but he pushed it!
Tweeted the video saying “ and more things to put in my mouth”
blogged the video on tumblr saying the same thing and tagging oral fixation.
Description on YouTube saying the same thing. Then calling his liveshow exploring dans oral fixation

He did that so he can talk all about people focused on one tiny part of the video that was at the end. Which isn’t even the part people were talking about but he did the rest. He should take responsibility for the things he says and does and stop putting the full blame on his audience. Literally the same thing with the Bahamas! He caused the discourse watched everything happen then get patronising saying we take things to far... there’s no smoke without fire and he causes the fire everytime.

Don’t read this in a angry tone. I’m frustrated. I’m a outsider in this phandom and a lot of the time I don’t agree with what people do and I feel like people do take it to far. But sometimes this being one of them they arnt fully to blame
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papierklemmen
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serious question tho: what is the "eating ass" meme? what did i miss?
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