Dan & Phil Part 67: Laughter, Food and Sex

[tyhane]

The last couple of weeks have been really uncomfortable, I feel like we're kind of secondhand witnessing something we shouldn't, something too personal, idk. I'm not trying to insinuate anything but this doesn't seem to be a good time now. I do hope everything's okay.

I fully agree, it really has been uncomfortable. I’ve tried to remove myself from the phandom a little recently, just taking a step back for everything to settle. Like you said, I hope everything is okay and Dan has support/friends around.

Edit- even his likes on twitter are a bit

Yeah, I agree with most of the thoughts like this I'm seeing. It's hard for me to articulate, and it's not that I'm trying to baby him or say that he shouldn't be allowed to express what he wants on his own social media. And I have a hard time deciding what might just be me projecting onto him. I sure as hell empathize/sympathize with him, it's just for me as a "consumer", it's not the type of thing that's enjoyable for me. I'm the type that usually gets negatively affected when I hear other people talking about their mental health. And I know he's only human, but at the same time, I'm (we're) only fans. Rather than wanting him to cater to what I do enjoy, I've just been a little less engaged. It's almost been like a lesson for me, after spending months of being 100% invested and in really deep with dnp/the phandom, that I can just. Take a step back. I could choose to only engage with dapg/Phil's channel, I could choose to just watch Dan's videos and not follow him on social media, etc. if I wanted to. I'm not at that point, but it reminded me that it's an option.

This is unrelated to above, but I've also seen some people giving themselves/us too much power imo. Dan was talking about being depressed and going through shit before the whole thing with the video/liveshow went down. (I actually remember feeling kind of crummy after I watched the video, because he had said present tense he was very depressed and having a quarter-life crisis.) I mean I'm sure the negative reactions certainly didn't help anything, but it also didn't cause it. And it's striking me as sort of strangely, idk, infantilizing? almost offensive? that I see people talking about "look what we've done" and such. But I guess it's the normal pattern of finger-pointing and "look what a good fan I am" that you see.

[malday]

The last couple of weeks have been really uncomfortable, I feel like we're kind of secondhand witnessing something we shouldn't, something too personal, idk. I'm not trying to insinuate anything but this doesn't seem to be a good time now. I do hope everything's okay.

He's never been more "relatable" but it's also making me want to step away because it's not something i can handle right now. All i can do is hope he bounces back from it soon and everything will be ok.

[starwatersong]

Hope somebody is checking in or that Dan remembers his self care training.

I also hope that he realizes there’s nothing wrong with going back on meds or getting help.

Hopefully, he feels better soon.

[Birdie]

The last couple of weeks have been really uncomfortable, I feel like we're kind of secondhand witnessing something we shouldn't, something too personal, idk. I'm not trying to insinuate anything but this doesn't seem to be a good time now. I do hope everything's okay.

Same actually. I really hope Dan is okay and will get through this soon and I do hope he has someone close even if Phil isn't home yet. The backlash to the liveshow might've been justified but if Dan can't deal with this kind of negativity right now, by all means, I want him to log off for a bit and just relax and get better. (Tbh, Dan's channel helped me through a bad depressive episode in 2013 and I hate that we can't do anything to help him in return...)

[sugar]

agreed that it's been uncomfortable, but as i've been going through an extremely low patch i do find it relatable. something about today's tweets and replies have left me feeling weird though. like others have said, i hope dan has someone to talk to or hang around with even if it's not phil right now.

[Amiaw]

Yeah, I agree with most of the thoughts like this I'm seeing. It's hard for me to articulate, and it's not that I'm trying to baby him or say that he shouldn't be allowed to express what he wants on his own social media. And I have a hard time deciding what might just be me projecting onto him. I sure as hell empathize/sympathize with him, it's just for me as a "consumer", it's not the type of thing that's enjoyable for me. I'm the type that usually gets negatively affected when I hear other people talking about their mental health. And I know he's only human, but at the same time, I'm (we're) only fans. Rather than wanting him to cater to what I do enjoy, I've just been a little less engaged. It's almost been like a lesson for me, after spending months of being 100% invested and in really deep with dnp/the phandom, that I can just. Take a step back. I could choose to only engage with dapg/Phil's channel, I could choose to just watch Dan's videos and not follow him on social media, etc. if I wanted to. I'm not at that point, but it reminded me that it's an option.

I've been feeling the same way. Watching DnP hasn't been fun since this whole thing started and worrying about people that I don't know and that I'm pretty powerless to help is frustrating. Dan is allowed to be unhappy and I don't want to say that he can't express negative feelings but otoh I also worry about him "joking" or tweeting like this to his 8 million followers as a public figure. He's been struggling, and I do get it because I've been there, but he also has some responsibility as a mental health ambassador with a lot of young fans. If he is tweeting because he's in a bad place I hope that he steps away from his twitter until he's in a better frame of mind.

[greenergrass]

Yeah, I agree with most of the thoughts like this I'm seeing. It's hard for me to articulate, and it's not that I'm trying to baby him or say that he shouldn't be allowed to express what he wants on his own social media. And I have a hard time deciding what might just be me projecting onto him. I sure as hell empathize/sympathize with him, it's just for me as a "consumer", it's not the type of thing that's enjoyable for me. I'm the type that usually gets negatively affected when I hear other people talking about their mental health. And I know he's only human, but at the same time, I'm (we're) only fans. Rather than wanting him to cater to what I do enjoy, I've just been a little less engaged. It's almost been like a lesson for me, after spending months of being 100% invested and in really deep with dnp/the phandom, that I can just. Take a step back. I could choose to only engage with dapg/Phil's channel, I could choose to just watch Dan's videos and not follow him on social media, etc. if I wanted to. I'm not at that point, but it reminded me that it's an option.

I've been feeling the same way. Watching DnP hasn't been fun since this whole thing started and worrying about people that I don't know and that I'm pretty powerless to help is frustrating. Dan is allowed to be unhappy and I don't want to say that he can't express negative feelings but otoh I also worry about him "joking" or tweeting like this to his 8 million followers as a public figure. He's been struggling, and I do get it because I've been there, but he also has some responsibility as a mental health ambassador with a lot of young fans. If he is tweeting because he's in a bad place I hope that he steps away from his twitter until he's in a better frame of mind.

You're allowed to have your own feelings about the whole situation, and if that means taking a step back then that's obviously good - do whatever you need to do.

But I don't really think it's fair to put the responsibility on Dan for what his young fans see. I think that's the responsibility of a parent - if your kid is young enough and impressionable enough to be influenced by what they see online, then I think the parent needs to be monitoring their online activity and having their own conversations with the kid. I think Dan should be allowed to express his emotions how he wants, and it's not really up to him to be a perfect role model, you know?

I get your point about him being a mental health ambassador, but I don't think that needs to dictate how he lives his entire life. Like, he can still be a great mental health ambassador, and still not make the best decisions, and be able to make these (sometimes not so great) decisions publicly. At the end of the day, he only has the responsibility of looking after himself, and whatever he feels is the best way to do that is up to him (even if you - the collective you, not you personally - don't think it's the best solution). Basically, I'm trying to say that I see where you're coming from, but I don't think anyone other than a parent (or someone in that same type of authority position) has a responsibility to the kids.

[ratlad]

im just gonna post a response i made to someone on tumblr who was blaming the phandom for Dan's depression:

hey, as we all know, Dan isn’t in a good place at the moment. he will be fine though. you shouldn’t invest yourself in analyzing all of his tweets, he was replying to a jokey one and he just joked back. he has common sense to know that their tweet wasn’t serious.

*talking about a tweet that he replied to with "im sorry"*

it’s not healthy to get worked up about whatever he tweets because we don’t know the full story. there’s not much we can do, and it isn’t anyone’s fault.

depression is unpredictable and can come in violent waves for no apparent reason. he was definitely slipping into it before he even published his recent video.

all we can do is spread positivity and avoid causing commotion by making a huge deal out of anything he does. from experience, i know how uncomfortable it must be to have attention drawn to your bad mental health. he will be okay.

[Amiaw]

You're allowed to have your own feelings about the whole situation, and if that means taking a step back then that's obviously good - do whatever you need to do.

But I don't really think it's fair to put the responsibility on Dan for what his young fans see. I think that's the responsibility of a parent - if your kid is young enough and impressionable enough to be influenced by what they see online, then I think the parent needs to be monitoring their online activity and having their own conversations with the kid. I think Dan should be allowed to express his emotions how he wants, and it's not really up to him to be a perfect role model, you know?

I get your point about him being a mental health ambassador, but I don't think that needs to dictate how he lives his entire life. Like, he can still be a great mental health ambassador, and still not make the best decisions, and be able to make these (sometimes not so great) decisions publicly. At the end of the day, he only has the responsibility of looking after himself, and whatever he feels is the best way to do that is up to him (even if you - the collective you, not you personally - don't think it's the best solution). Basically, I'm trying to say that I see where you're coming from, but I don't think anyone other than a parent (or someone in that same type of authority position) has a responsibility to the kids.

I didn't word myself correctly because I do agree that parents should be the ones with the responsibility to their children, I just have never personally liked tweets that even joke about death and depression because they are such heavy topics. I think Dan can do great things with his platform and I want him to be able to express himself to his fans. I know how I get when I'm depressed and I've certainly sent tweets and made emotional posts that I've regretted later on but I didn't have an audience of 8 million people. He's not wrong to post these things, I would just hate for him to regret tweeting emotional tweets when he's feeling better. I'm probably projecting and I'm most definitely remembering the feeling of being exposed and vulnerable so I'm just saying that Ideally, I would hope everyone has someone in their life that would stop them from doing things that might be self-destructive

[starwatersong]

Saw a good post on Tumblr about this by alittledizzy:

[captainspacecoat]

+1 to everything dizzy said in response to that anon. Questions like that one annoy me for so many reasons, not least because it feels like an insult both to us (by which I mean, Dan's audience) and also to Dan himself.

It's unfair to place all the blame on those of us who reacted negatively to his last liveshow, as that erases the fact that (at least in my opinion) people had a valid reason to feel condescended to by Dan. Entirely blaming his audience leads to unnecessary guilt-tripping and people bending over backwards to apologise for something that really isn't their fault.

But more than that, it's unfair to Dan, because it completely simplifies what exactly depression is. We don't know Dan. We are not privy to his every thought, or to what specific things are happening in different aspects of his life as of late. For all we know, literally anything could be contributing to him feeling depressed and by assuming it's one thing and one thing only we erase his actual lived experience, and reduce him to a person who exists only in reaction to the things we do and say. He is actually a real, complex person just like all of us, and we have no way of knowing for sure what's going on in his life right now. Plus, I'd add that depression is a chemical imbalance that isn't necessarily caused by anything at all, so while the fallout from his liveshow likely hasn't helped him, it's silly to speculate that it's the sole cause.

I also cringe when I perceive people to be infantilising him and his depression (not necessarily something I've seen here), whereby people start to go over the top speculating whether or not he's okay and waxing lyrical about how much they love him etc. I really do wish him the best, and I hope he has a good support network and healthy coping mechanisms to help him through this, but I doubt he'd want people to treat him differently than they would have before he confirmed to us that he does have depression. I know people mean well, and I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing concern for his wellbeing or hoping that he feels better soon or anything (empathy is powerful and I genuinely do love to see it), but there's no need to walk on eggshells around him or treat him like a baby. If that makes sense? Again, not so much something I've seen on here but it feels relevant anyway.

[mermaid blood]

+1 to our @alittledizzy's tumblr post (thanks @starwatersong for posting because i don't know that she would have, herself). i can't really summarise my feelings on it better.

what i think is positive is that we had the same thing happen in 2015, people got very concerned after dan tweeted some stuff (i can't even remember the wording now), though this time we have more context we didn't have back then - there were concerns he wasn't allowing himself to take his feelings seriously and had never sought any external help, and this time we know that isn't the case. sometimes all the 'help' in the world can't make you feel differently than how he appears to be feeling right now, and as someone who visits that place semi-frequently herself, all i can say is that i don't envy his position even 0.001% (despite wishing i had the income they do, lol). the pressure. i hope he's battening down the hatches for the storm to pass. i wish him peace of mind.

Also this:

I was thinking more that it was Phil’s chance to get with Zayn, but sure.

That's his angle to get Phil home, I guess - tweet about how he's going after Zayn so Phil rushes back to vie for his rightful place at Zayn's side.

this made me laugh and i'm glad he tweeted it among the others. it amuses me that they both seem to fancy zayn but over the years phil has said dan looks like him! lol.
also i see he's flying the bisexual flag with the choice of ambiguity in the response. (idk how he feels about gigi)

[Stakhanov]

Yeah, I agree with most of the thoughts like this I'm seeing. It's hard for me to articulate, and it's not that I'm trying to baby him or say that he shouldn't be allowed to express what he wants on his own social media. And I have a hard time deciding what might just be me projecting onto him. I sure as hell empathize/sympathize with him, it's just for me as a "consumer", it's not the type of thing that's enjoyable for me. I'm the type that usually gets negatively affected when I hear other people talking about their mental health. And I know he's only human, but at the same time, I'm (we're) only fans. Rather than wanting him to cater to what I do enjoy, I've just been a little less engaged. It's almost been like a lesson for me, after spending months of being 100% invested and in really deep with dnp/the phandom, that I can just. Take a step back. I could choose to only engage with dapg/Phil's channel, I could choose to just watch Dan's videos and not follow him on social media, etc. if I wanted to. I'm not at that point, but it reminded me that it's an option.

I've been feeling the same way. Watching DnP hasn't been fun since this whole thing started and worrying about people that I don't know and that I'm pretty powerless to help is frustrating. Dan is allowed to be unhappy and I don't want to say that he can't express negative feelings but otoh I also worry about him "joking" or tweeting like this to his 8 million followers as a public figure. He's been struggling, and I do get it because I've been there, but he also has some responsibility as a mental health ambassador with a lot of young fans. If he is tweeting because he's in a bad place I hope that he steps away from his twitter until he's in a better frame of mind.

You're allowed to have your own feelings about the whole situation, and if that means taking a step back then that's obviously good - do whatever you need to do.

But I don't really think it's fair to put the responsibility on Dan for what his young fans see. I think that's the responsibility of a parent - if your kid is young enough and impressionable enough to be influenced by what they see online, then I think the parent needs to be monitoring their online activity and having their own conversations with the kid. I think Dan should be allowed to express his emotions how he wants, and it's not really up to him to be a perfect role model, you know?

I get your point about him being a mental health ambassador, but I don't think that needs to dictate how he lives his entire life. Like, he can still be a great mental health ambassador, and still not make the best decisions, and be able to make these (sometimes not so great) decisions publicly. At the end of the day, he only has the responsibility of looking after himself, and whatever he feels is the best way to do that is up to him (even if you - the collective you, not you personally - don't think it's the best solution). Basically, I'm trying to say that I see where you're coming from, but I don't think anyone other than a parent (or someone in that same type of authority position) has a responsibility to the kids.

I think you're both raising some important points, and as somebody who's facing my own issues (and my sense is this is true for many here among us) I feel strongly about all of this.

There are a lot of people who seem to be uncomfortable with the vibe they get from Dan's recent 'darker' tweets or other clues that remind us that he's not in the best of places. It doesn't have that effect on me.
I feel happier to see Dan express some of his feelings, veiled and polished for general consumption as they may be. Even though it worries me, I would find it horrendous to only read fun, 'relatable' and light-hearted tweets by him while having to consider that he's actually feeling terrible. There's a certain cruelty to watching a public figure keeping up a clean, fun front to "entertain" the masses while you know the reality of the situation is different. It's dishonest. It feels like putting on a show to me, while you're quietly suffering. I think that can be harmful for all involved.
To me just approaching him from the fan-entertainer dynamic feels like playing a part in the "Truman Show". Not everyone will feel the same, but I would hate pretending like nothing is going on. While it's true that I'm 'just a fan" it''s also true that I care for him as a person -even though we are strangers- and that he has opened up some about his depression with his audience, partly because he felt it was "a big part of his life we should know about" (paraphrasing his words here, he talks about his reasons in his "coming out" video of last year).

When I try to define what his responsibility would be as a public figure, it's partly informed by this sentiment. In my perspective, being a good mental health ambassador isn't in conflict with tweeting out how you genuinely are feeling about things, no matter what effect on mood that can have. People who feel their mood is badly affected and don't feel this helps them are i think right to disengage and put their own mental health first.
But others, like me, do feel helped or strangely comforted by Dan vocalizing his emotions, even if they sad and even if they offer just a glimpse into his state of mind without really enlightening us what is at the heart of the issue. We're likely struggling over different things anyway, and even if the issues we had were identical, it's really hard to explain why you feel the way you do to others. Hell often it's hard to explain it to yourself too.
So i think it's good ambassadorship to be earnest about your state of mind, especially when it's bad. None of these feelings are likely new for him. Somebody on here said that Dan's not the best at hiding his emotions. I don't know, sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't. I don't know if he's really feeling so different than the many other times he went through a heavy period. The only difference may be that now we know some more (though still not much) about what's going on, and that he might just clue us in a bit more - or just hide a little less- to his feelings through the things he does on social media.

[Birdie]

@alittledizzy's post is so good, oh my god. To be honest, even though it makes me uncomfortable, I'm kind of glad Dan let's us know when he's in a bad place, because he is a mental health ambassador. Him pretending everything was fine all the time wouldn't do anything for him or us. And it's not like he's just tweeted dark stuff out of the blue. He's said he wasn't feeling too well in the video and the liveshow, so we know where this is coming from, it's not random. It might be uncomfortable to witness but I've thought about it now and I think it's good he let's people know that depression isn't something that linearly gets better but that there are ups and downs and that it's normal. I really want him to take a break from social media if he needs one but if he doesn't and sharing this kind of dark humour actually does help him, then let's let him cope like this and maybe not accuse him of "manipulating" his audience into feeling bad for him like I've seen people on Tumblr do. In the end Dan isn't just an influencer or mental health ambassador but a person. Not every move he makes or tweet he shares is some calculated effort to manipulate his audience. Everything is not always about us and I think some people really need to realise that his audience is of course important to Dan but we're never his number one priority and that that's a good and normal thing.

also i see he's flying the bisexual flag with the choice of ambiguity in the response. (idk how he feels about gigi)

Hasn't he always? That's why it made me a bit salty when people went on about how he was "gay" after the last video. Bi erasure is wild. (I know a lot of people use "gay" as an umbrella term and that's fine but something about using it as an umbrella term for others doesn't sit well with me because for most people "gay" isn't synonymous with lgbtq and means one single sexuality.)

[alittledizzy]

to everyone who liked my tumblr post, and thanks for embedding it! I probably wouldn't have posted it here on my own because it felt like the answer to a question that hadn't actually been posed on here yet but I'm glad it's resonating with people! I also love some of the commentary being made here along the same lines.

It's unfair to place all the blame on those of us who reacted negatively to his last liveshow, as that erases the fact that (at least in my opinion) people had a valid reason to feel condescended to by Dan. Entirely blaming his audience leads to unnecessary guilt-tripping and people bending over backwards to apologise for something that really isn't their fault.

This is definitely a good point, and one of the things I'm seeing a lot on twitter and tumblr. It's not only frustrating from the perspective of not wanting to see people treat depression like it changes who Dan is, but also from the perspective of seeing fans take on a whole lot of responsibility for something they shouldn't rightfully feel responsibility for.

Like, he can still be a great mental health ambassador, and still not make the best decisions, and be able to make these (sometimes not so great) decisions publicly. At the end of the day, he only has the responsibility of looking after himself, and whatever he feels is the best way to do that is up to him (even if you - the collective you, not you personally - don't think it's the best solution).

This is another really good point. I know a lot of people are put off by Dan's humor about depression, but that's the kind of situation where it's on individual fans to be their own gatekeeper and not expect Dan to change how he copes to fit what a fan might prefer or what a fan thinks would work better.

[Stakhanov]

I wish people in general wouldn't be as quick to expect Dan to change how he feels or acts about things on the basis of what they think he thinks, or because they prefer him to think differently. We'd maybe have a more open, more genuine relationship with him. But that's not likely to happen any time soon. I don't even expect it to be the case on mental health issues, and the ludicrous things i've read on tumblr and other places (luckily not as much on here) after his livestream kind of proved the point to me that he is best no to take the the commentary of fans to serious, and he should indeed just see the value of his own truth. Even if he's not free of any blame (and who is?). People will judge (unfairly) anyway so he better have the benefit of being able to express his true thoughts and feelings. Not that he will, because he knows the consequences are real and he wants to remain popular. That's one way to interpret "Cleanse tone, euthanize" Not for the sake of being popular i Imagine, but because everything he built, does and much of what he can do depends on being well-liked in the pubic eye. Still, there are degrees to which he can choose to placate the sentiments and beliefs within his diverse audience or try make a stand for what he himself believes, even if it's not an easy or "positive" opinion. That's what i would call "using your platform".
There's no place for gatekeepers other than yourself when it comes to matters of opinion and taste anyway.

[rizzo]

So, uh, can Phil pull a Charlie McDonnell and give us 10 minutes of him just eating cereal? I really want content and would also like to try and avoid wallowing in Dan's problems for a brief moment.

[Stakhanov]

That sounds like 10 minutes of exhilarating content :mrgreen:
Reminded me of this *quality* content

[mm_sunny1993]

New video! (Sorry can't link it)

[DatCog]

New Wikihow gaming vid!

[Kimship]

Haha. Dan is obviously still salty.

[alittledizzy]

I hope this was filmed last week and he's not still feeling that hostile toward us. (And if it was filmed last week, then I hope Phil's back and we get fresh content soon.)

[snokoplasmic]

Phil was a real gem in this, I quite liked it

[liola]

I hope this was filmed last week, Dan seems still in a bad mood and the last comment "not for a while haha i'm still a bit tilted" made me :/ but same Dan, same.

I do wanna say I loved the very genuine real smile Dan gave around half the video while he was looking at Phil, I saw the soft Dan that I love in there and it just made my heart a bit lighter.

Interesting comment "i'm celibate now" after Phil says some sex related stuff, I can't focus on timestamps but it made me raise my eyebrow. He's circling back to that humour uh

They both looked so good though, Phil especially was glowing and I loved his humour and sarcasm towards Dan, even with stuff like depression. I guess if he seems to be taking it "lightly", then maybe it isn't as bad as we on the outside may perceive

[zazzed]

There were many parts in this vid where Phil was delightfully camp and tbh that makes it for me

I also hope this wasn't filmed this week as even though he seemed in a slightly better mood than the other gaming video, his vide still seemed a little hostile.