Dan & Phil Part 67: Laughter, Food and Sex

[Stakhanov]

It feels like I say this any time after Dan posts any solo content at this point (which is really sad to me) -- but if Dan really makes some people in the phandom so angry, unhappy, etc. anytime he posts something, why do they still watch it? I'm not even trying to be sassy, like genuinely I don't understand why?

It's one thing to be frustrated with something, and even post about it -- I want to make it clear that I don't think people shouldn't be voicing an opinion -- but at this point it seems excessive. Just on here theres paragraphs upon paragraphs and pages upon pages of people just being negative (and not going to call anyone out but in some cases just downright hateful) towards Dan. I try to avoid twitter and tumblr phandom as much as possible, but i can only imagine its worse there. It's stessful to be in a community of fans that are being so extremely negative about the very person you're all supposed to be a fan of. AGAIN, not saying its bad to be critical of someone you're a fan of, but this is A LOT.

To quote SHITiveHITtheFANdom -- "perhaps cut the man some fucking slack?" I couldn't have said it any better myself. Is it disappoing? Yes. Did it feel like a backtrack? Yes. Does that mean we all need to get out our pitchforks and go after Dan? I don't think so. He's made it pretty clear he's been really struggling with depression lately, can you really blame him for having a reaction like that? I know from my experience, when i'm in a depressive episode, even just a small reaction from one person about something i've said can seem like a Big Deal -- imagine that times the 1.3mil views on his video (and counting). His statement about it wasn't mean or attacking, he even said he's "not trying to shame anyone." I understand being disappointed but I just don't understand the anger.

I can't speak for anyone else but most of the time I like Dan. I understand he is going through depression and I feel for him, I enjoy his content, and when he isn't being patronizing I even like his live shows. I even left a comment on his last video that I thought it was brave of him to take baby steps.
So my opinions and feelings aren't because I don't like Dan but because I do like him and expect him to respect his fanbase.

The thing with this video is that nobody knew what it was going to be. Dan made the decision to make this video and post it all on his own. Dan also made the decision to go to his live show audience, an audience that he knows is his most loyal, the people that draw art and buy his merch, the 2% that would have loved a side video talking about minced pies, the people that support him when he pulls a "Dan", and he was condescending and dismissive.

I'm disappointed because I thought we were mostly past this. I haven't been this put off since last year when he made it a point to mock his live show audience with the story of wearing Phil's jacket and again it was a story nobody asked for.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hate that in one breath Dan tells a reporter that his audience is smart (when it comes to buying his board game and selling his merch anyway) but when it comes to understanding something in a video we all got it all wrong and couldn't be more off the mark. You know, maybe we were wrong. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there because I'm not him and I don't know his thoughts, but would it have killed him to show us basic respect by waiting until his emotions died down and then explaining it in a logical way?

@KatjaZoe Once again i agree with most of what you say and thanks for putting it that eloquently

i disagree with one thing though - exactly what position is he backtracking from? As I see it, a lot of people made something of that dick joke that it simply wasn't. Some people wanted to see it as "growth", more "openness", as a profound statement about his sexual identity. What Dan says in the liveshow conflicts with that. And i think that's why some people feel so disappointed and there is so much talk about it. To be clear: people have the right to feel however they want about this, but i'm just going to honestly state my view too here.

I think this has at least as much to do about the expectations and assumptions that people construed in the fandom than with anything Dan did himself.
Do I believe he didn't caught the innuendo? Could be, but ehh i judge it's unlikely. I think he sorely misjudged the impact it had and the significance people would attach to it. Which took me by surprise too.
As he went on to explain in the liveshow, he clearly feels like he always needs to bring a balance of being informative and being entertaining. With Dan and Phil, being entertaining very often comes down to making a whole lot of erotic innuendo So that's how i perceived the joke when I watched the video. As a bit of silly gay joke (one in a loooong line) that got blown out of proportion (pun not intended) by parts of the fandom. I'm not targeting anyone on this forum (at least here we're trying to have a mature exchange of views) but just reacting to everything I've seen and read online.
The way people took that oral sex reference as an important message of the video rather than what I see was the message and which I understand Dan also saw as the real message, did bother me if i'm honest. I see a youtuber who's very private in general opening up about his depression, in his typical fashion which includes making sex jokes. That sex joke and some other details like the magnets run away with a lot of the attention. Some people are very much focused on their sexuality and the nature of their relationship. For this video i just don't think those were that relevant for what he was trying to say. So it saddens me that a lot of the talk about it does end up about that anyway. I feel that is what Dan was trying to react to, and any backtracking I see as an effort to reclaim the authentic message of the video. It's only 'bactracking' if you held the position that he had said something profound about his sexual identity. He didn't, and I think he wanted to show that and that's why he talked about it and even showed a clip of the previous version where he said ass. None of this really is a "no homo" to me and I think Dan is just as "bi" or "no label" or whatever he wants to be as he was before....

Could he have communicated this with more tact or should he have never made a dick joke if he didn't want people to react this way? I agree partly, but I also think it's good to reflect on our own assumptions about who we think they are as people and what we want of them. They don't conform to everything all people think them to be (cfr the people who really want him to have a 'pastel' personality or to be only ever be positive all the time). So paradoxically, I think in this liveshow he was just being more his 'true" self rather than the brand. And this to me show me again why it's not always the case that being truthful with your audience is good for you. Because I feel like he sure takes a lot of flack for simply conflicting things other people took out of it but which he didn't intend to say.

btw @papierklemmen I couldn't tell you what meme that is. Ironically it sounds a lot gayer to me than what ended up in the final video . "Hey sexy, do you know about the ass eating meme?" That's one dank meme swamp he travels in

[captainspacecoat]

Re: oral fixation - I empathise with him to a certain extent, as a non-straight person who is constantly torn between wanting to blurt out my sexuality to everyone I meet and being absolutely terrified of anyone at all knowing I'm not straight (the latter feeling wins every time for me, sadly). I don't begrudge him feeling anxious or nervous or even fucking terrified at the thought that thousands of people are fervently discussing his sexuality, even if they (we, myself included) are discussing it out of love and pride and solidarity. I don't blame him for feeling awkward about it, or even regretting it, especially as we know that he is depressed and anxious, and unfortunately shitty brain chemicals tend to do their best to make you feel terrible about yourself.

But what does annoy me is him acting as though it is at all plausible that he genuinely didn't notice or intend to include an innuendo that absolutely is specifically about sucking dick, as though he didn't allude to sucking dick multiple times in the video, as though he didn't reference putting things in his mouth in the tweet promoting the video and the video's description, as though he didn't literally title the liveshow in reference to sucking dick. It pisses me off that he positions the viewer as stupid or naive for interpreting the innuendo as referencing sucking dick (take a shot every time I write 'sucking dick' lmao), and for drawing the conclusion that his decision to reference sucking dick in relation to himself, in a video about being authentically yourself and "living your truth" in order to achieve happiness, was relevant. As though we were somehow out of line in coming to that conclusion?

Like,,, I really do understand why he may have regretted it or felt uncomfortable in the aftermath, but at the end of the day it really isn't difficult to imagine why that was so many people's biggest take away from the video. Which is not to say that there weren't other, deeper, interesting things in the video for people to focus on. But unfortunately for Dan, he can't control what people are going to take from his videos. It sucks (heh) to feel like your reaction or interpretation was just completely invalidated, and tbh it feels a bit like he's shitting on the intelligence of anyone who took it that way. I don't think it's fair of him to make people feel bad for interpreting something the way it was clearly intended to be interpreted, even if he did regret or feel anxious about making those jokes in hindsight.

tldr; I genuinely empathise with his reasoning, as I really do think that coming to terms with your sexuality and how open you want to be/how you want to or are able to portray it to other people is hard enough when you don't exist in the public eye, BUT I don't think he was justified in the way he went about positioning those of us who read those jokes as referencing sucking dick as somehow wrong or out of line.

Re: potential professional editing - I guess ultimately I want him to do whatever's best for his mental health, and if that's outsourcing the editing and directing of his videos then he should do that. But just on a purely selfish level, I really hope he doesn't do that. I think if he had someone else edit and direct his videos (other than Phil) they'd lose any and all charm. I watch him and Phil for, Dan's word of the month, what I perceive as their ~authenticity~. Knowing that the video was directed by another person entirely, and then edited by another person entirely, such that Dan's contribution to the video was the idea, presumably script and physical presence, but the overall final product had been constructed by someone who has been completely removed from Dan's channel for the past 8+ years, would be so off-putting to me. If I'm honest, I think I'd stop watching his main channel videos if that happened. I'd still be here for the gaming channel, and Phil (assuming they didn't outsource editing to those channels), but I can't see myself caring about Dan's main channel anymore if that happened.

[flarequake]

I’d never heard of the meme and it turns out it’s fricking old - http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/eating-ass

[Birdie]

While of course we shouldn’t forget that Dan is a person with feelings, can we also not forget that he’s an influencer with an audience of thousands of young people that trust him, look up to him and care about what he says? Yes, Dan is a person. But so are thousands of viewers who felt validated by what he said, even inspired to come out, and then got told “Lol, it was a joke, don’t take me seriously you fools”. He’s not talking to a few friends when he makes these comments, then backtracks, then ridicules people who thought he was being serious. He’s talking to a giant audience, lots of young people who see him as a role model, if he likes it or not. So maybe also consider this before you tell people to calm down and “cut him some slack”. Dan is 26 years old, he’s been on Youtube for almost a decade, he should know better.

I’m not expecting him to be some kind of representational figure or whatever. He is a person and if he doesn’t wanna be that, fine. Of course that’s fine. But that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have to consider the impact the shit he says and does has. Like lemon something said… When will he learn to stand behind the stuff he puts out and not contradict himself in the next liveshow? That’s all most people who are upset are asking of him. I sometimes feel like y’all are forgetting that he’s a celebrity, not your friend telling you his insecurities over tea. He has full control over what he puts out and he could’ve easily decided not to include those comments and avert the whole drama. This has nothing to do with crossing Dan’s boundaries. He’s the one who put out this information. People reacted. This isn’t crossing boundaries and this protectiveness of Dan, like no one is allowed to ever be disappointed in the choices he makes, is ridiculous. Someone in Dan’s position always has a responsibility towards his viewers, if he wants to be a rolemodel or not. You can't switch that off.

I’m really tired and barely able to see cause of a migraine so can’t block quote some of the stuff I want to say, but I mostly agree with eveverything that’s been said. I think most of the backlash is not about the joke but Dan’s need to backtrack and how patronising that felt, though I think most people understand that that’s anxiety. It doesn’t really excuse it but it does explain it. A lot of the LGBTQ+ fans are upset (including me, a bit) just cause I watched that video and felt like yeah, acceptance is great! I also am a bit weirded out by his reaction to people’s reaction to Antoni messaging him... Queer Eye is amazing and about acceptance and I wonder (purely speculation) if someone from a show that is purely about acceptance freaked him out?

I think, and this is absolutely just speculation, that Dan might want to be out but is also really, really scared of being out. Might be projecting, because same, but that's what it reads like to me. He alludes to his same-sex attraction so much that there is basically no question left whether or not he's queer, but when it becomes somewhat personal he freaks out and tries to distance himself from it again. It would explain his weird reaction to the Devan romance - clearly wanting it to happen but pretending like he never meant for it to happen and it's out of his hands. It would also explain this whole mess right now. Dan seems open and all but he has been weird about sexuality and queerness from the beginning and I think there's a lot of fear and insecurity there and I think it's a lot to do with what happened in 2012, like willowgarden said in their amazing post. I understand that but it doesn't mean the way he handles it is okay. It's something extremely personal that's now playing out in front of our eyes and maybe he should've waited until he felt more secure but what's done is done.

In the end, this whole situation is extremely complicated and I feel for Dan, I really do. I don't think he's manipulative or a bad rolemodel at all. I do think he's handling this wrong though and that's disappointing.

[phillyforgot]

I’d never heard of the meme and it turns out it’s fricking old - http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/eating-ass

Now I'm wondering why Dan would reference such an old meme... Maybe that's why he didn't want to put it in the video? Because the meme wasn't relevant anymore?

I'm pretty sure that Dan did know what most people would be thinking when he said 'something else'. Maybe he didn't expect it to blow up that much? I hate to say it, but I'm pretty sceptical about his intentions, his behaviour seems to be pretty off-putting.

[koalaselfie]

It seemed pretty clear to me (hi, just popping back in again & haven't caught up on these boards yet at all! So apologies if I'm repeating topics) that Dan's liveshow was largely to justify that statement in his video (and even then there was a lot of side-stepping the main topic, ie his sexuality, but each to their privacy). The entire rest of the liveshow was basically Oscars waffle And repeating topics from his Feb 20th one.

Also, has anybody noticed how often Dan is saying "yikes" nowadays?! A compilation vid in the making for sure!

~back to lurkdom

[astronomer]

Somebody pointed this out like 15 pages back but I'd like to do it again:
Laughter doesn't go in your mouth. It comes out.
Food doesn't come out of your mouth. It goes in. (Debatable, but laughter isn't.)
So why was the sex part automatically coming both in and out of his mouth?

He could have meant both, but his statement at the end "something else in my mouth" reinforces (to me at least) that he intended "sex" as just something else that goes in his mouth.
Maybe the reason he didn't feel the need to clarify that part is because nowhere did he explicitly say that something sexual was going both in and out of his mouth.

Either I misinterpreted that joke, or other people misinterpreted that joke. Either way Dan is correct in saying that "fans misinterpreted my joke", though the condescending tone can leave.

The "something else in my mouth" part definitely leaned toward sounding like peen so I see why he felt the need to specifically address that part. Regardless of his actual romantic/sexual preferences, or current relationship status, I think the Dan of the last few years has consistently tried to paint himself as "sexually ambiguous" or something along the lines of queer with no specified preference. I actually totally believe Dan when he says he didn't intentionally make this perceived explicit blow job joke on his main channel because I don't think he would want his public image to veer away from ambiguity, especially for casual viewers.

I may very well just be totally dense, but I often read you guys' opinions on here (hey what up) before watching the actual content itself and I went into this video expecting bj mentions that never came.
Just offering an alternate point of view for those asking how this may have been overlooked. If I'm this pedantic about phrasing then maybe just maybe it is conceivable that they really didn't see this comment being interpreted as something sexual going both in and out of his mouth, like I didn't.

[hello9217]

I don't think Dan backtracked in his statement. What I saw was him going "well the people I saw first said they liked the video, and then some peeps on Facebook (seriously Facebook) thought it was emotional and liked it and then suddenly all these people, who knows where they came from, started talking about dick" Then he goes into a spiel about how he was so totally completely confused, "what penis whomst? where are people getting this?" And this is why I'm upset. Maybe people saw your tag for it as oral fixation and perhaps that's where they came from. Maybe people saw your tweet where you said "with food and something else in my mouth." It's patronizing because he said some people got the intelligent, important, and emotional message from the video, which sure honey while others just focussed on the dick. Well guess what? The people that watch the live shows, the people who also probably made a lot of the dick jokes, are probably his most dedicated audience and were we joking? Yeah of course we were. But were we also writing essays of praise for how proud we felt of Dan? Hell yeah we were. But here goes Dan choosing to ignore all of that and in doing so made a lot of his audience believe that we hurt him and make us feel bad, even if he doesn't intend to do so.

[LtrllySusan]

Somebody pointed this out like 15 pages back but I'd like to do it again:
Laughter doesn't go in your mouth. It comes out.
Food doesn't come out of your mouth. It goes in. (Debatable, but laughter isn't.)
So why was the sex part automatically coming both in and out of his mouth?

He could have meant both, but his statement at the end "something else in my mouth" reinforces (to me at least) that he intended "sex" as just something else that goes in his mouth.
Maybe the reason he didn't feel the need to clarify that part is because nowhere did he explicitly say that something sexual was going both in and out of his mouth.
[...]

Firstly,

I had the same thought yesterday, so I can see where you are coming from. However, why would he mention "Laughter, food, and sex" in this combination and then call it "things coming in and out of his mouth" if it wouldn't refer to all of them?

Also, if sex just meant either "coming into my mouth" or "coming out of my mouth", I still don't know what else that would be apart from a penis?

I'm confused... and disappointed because I know there won't be any more communication from Dan regarding this topic. He did his vid, he did some rambling, and now we are left with a bunch of emotions to work out on our own.

Oh and I saw that hello9217 just posted and I agree with that.

[missemma]

Haven't watched the ls, but been reading the comments over breakfast.

Legitimately snorted at the suggestion of him getting a crew for filming/editing to meet ~*quality standards*~

Sweety, that's the least of your problems.

Your problem is barely uploading.
Your problem is 8 years into your career not being able to stay on a shedule.
Your problem is 8 years into your career still not knowing how to handle your audience in a professional way.
Your problem is a bizarre quality threshold for your mediocore content.
Your problem is your obsession with image over substance.

Don't waste money on a crew until you really worked on that.

At the risk of being accused of defending dan like he’s a precious baby I wanted to say i honestly read all that and feel astounded that you could make a list so harsh about someone you literally know nothing about personally. he comes out and tells us that’s he’s depressed yet you think he has an obsession with image, or that he cannot stay on schedule 8 years later.
I obviously don’t know Dan either but from what he’s shared with us, he’s a deeply insecure and depressed person who as in his own words changes his mind on things almost daily and the little things effect him.
If he doesn’t upload frequently then oh well, that’s his choice and who are we to criticise in a harsh manner about that? Yeah I mention that the drought is real and it pisses me off sometimes but that’s because of my own boring life and being too invested in two random guys. I wouldn’t put that blame on him because I have no idea what goes on in his “offline” life. I don’t know how his mood is or what other jobs he’s got lined up behind the scenes. I don’t think he’s lazy at all, even his solo merch project means he’s been doing stuff, none of us knew he was going to do that so there is an element of stuff that is ultimately hidden from us until he wants to share it with us.

I don’t believe him when he says he’s going to get a crew to help him, he’s to much of a control freak to do that (just look at tatinof trailer for how involved he gets)

[applegrass]

Didn't watch the ls, as the title about oral fixation had me rolling my eyes and assuming he would patronizingly ramble on about the audience reaction being fixated on the sex jokes. That's one of the things that I strongly dislike about him. He's neither innocent nor naïve, and I wouldn't buy it even for a second that he didn't know how people would react. As far as I'm concerned, he's quite self-aware. If you want your video to be taken seriously, don't put unnecessary blowjob/eating ass jokes in it and then complain that it's the only thing fans have taken out of it.

I read the ls discourse here though, and the part that particularly stood out to me was him considering hiring an editor. Excuse me? Let me have Jacksepticeye as an example. The guy has an editor, but he produces at least a video every day, sometimes even more. In between, during last few months he managed to do a few charity lifestreams, visit events such as The Late Late Show and he's also going on tour. And I can't remember a day when he failed his upload schedule. His relationship with his fans is also remarkable. What does Dan need the editor for, again? One video in a lifetime?

Sorry for being salty.

[astronomer]

Somebody pointed this out like 15 pages back but I'd like to do it again:
Laughter doesn't go in your mouth. It comes out.
Food doesn't come out of your mouth. It goes in. (Debatable, but laughter isn't.)
So why was the sex part automatically coming both in and out of his mouth?

He could have meant both, but his statement at the end "something else in my mouth" reinforces (to me at least) that he intended "sex" as just something else that goes in his mouth.
Maybe the reason he didn't feel the need to clarify that part is because nowhere did he explicitly say that something sexual was going both in and out of his mouth.
[...]

Firstly,

I had the same thought yesterday, so I can see where you are coming from. However, why would he mention "Laughter, food, and sex" in this combination and then call it "things coming in and out of his mouth" if it wouldn't refer to all of them?

Also, if sex just meant either "coming into my mouth" or "coming out of my mouth", I still don't know what else that would be apart from a penis?

I'm confused... and disappointed because I know there won't be any more communication from Dan regarding this topic. He did his vid, he did some rambling, and now we are left with a bunch of emotions to work out on our own.

Oh and I saw that hello9217 just posted and I agree with that.

Ah. As in -not- a synonym for going. I see. I'll see myself out then.

[fancybum]

Ok I don't know why everybody is so put off by the 'maybe hire an editor etc' thing? He's talked about it in liveshows before as something he's thought about and I don't know why it's automatically being attributed to laziness wf. He's not a professional editor or cinematographer or whatever else, so trying to improve the way his videos look by having people who truly know what they're doing handle some of that isn't laziness, it's taking his job seriously by considering if there are ways to improve his product by enlisting other people who know better than him. He'd still be writing it and conceptualizing it (and basically directing the director lbr), but he'd have better lighting and colour-grading and whatever else "professionals" do to spiff something up. Are you out there criticizing authors for having editors and cover designers helping to make their core product (their words) better than they would be with only one set of eyes? It could go either way on whether he goes through with it or not, and the 'personal touch' in the form of a shaking Phil-held camera is something I appreciate but could easily live without since, as others have pointed out several times with various degrees of rudeness lol, he barely uploads anyway (on his main channel; he does do other things). So then what exactly is so horrible in him wanting to make his once-every-few-months videos look better? Somebody who understands lights could help to not wash his face completely out at the very least, I mean he's white, but he's not that white. Lol, he apparently sucks so bad at what he does but suddenly, when throwing out ideas on how to improve how he does things, it's just laziness and passing the buck. Sighhhhhhhh.

And it was a dick joke in that video. He knows it, Phil knows it, we all know it, and everybody who will watch the video will know it. He didn't even say 'wow you guys totally misunderstood me, get rekt' he said 'that's not what I initially intended (in that one take.. that I didn't use..), but I ultimately went with the take where it looked a certain way and here we all are' and he never said not to look at it in that certain way (which he was maybe trying to imply, but too bad Dan, the video is what it is). It probably would have been better not to bring it up at all if he wasn't going to be clearer (because the ass thing barely makes sense in his outtake and is not remotely a conclusion anybody would come to on their own in the final take), but I don't know why people want to revoke his ~queer card over it. He took specificity away from a sex act, that's all that happened and it doesn't erase him saying he loves sex or every other instance up to now of talking about dudes. Dan's gonna Dan but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Whatever. Phil's video can't come soon enough. Save us Phil.

[rizzo]

I read the ls discourse here though, and the part that particularly stood out to me was him considering hiring an editor. Excuse me? Let me have Jacksepticeye as an example. The guy has an editor, but he produces at least a video every day, sometimes even more. In between, during last few months he managed to do a few charity lifestreams, visit events such as The Late Late Show and he's also going on tour. And I can't remember a day when he failed his upload schedule. His relationship with his fans is also remarkable. What does Dan need the editor for, again? One video in a lifetime?

I like this point and it's a valid one. His videos are too infrequent for him to really need an editor.

Though, he did say in the LS that folks helping him on videos was a matter of improving his videos' quality. I know and love all of the people that he named, but the thing is that they all work on scripted sketches and movies. Sure, Elliot also edited Tom's vlogs ( #RIP), but he's an employee of Tom's company. If Dan wanted to hire these people for quality reasons, he would have to write out a legitimate script and plan it out even further in advance to get everyone in together for a specified amount of time. After that, he'd have to let go of some editing reigns or else pay-by-the-hour become pay-by-the-week. And at that point none of it is really "Dan", is it?

I also wonder how much these people would want to work on Dan's introspective passion projects? I mean, obviously, money talks. But I'm having a hard time picturing Ciaran showing up to film Dan acting out his own internal struggles.

[Stakhanov]

But what does annoy me is him acting as though it is at all plausible that he genuinely didn't notice or intend to include an innuendo that absolutely is specifically about sucking dick, as though he didn't allude to sucking dick multiple times in the video, as though he didn't reference putting things in his mouth in the tweet promoting the video and the video's description, as though he didn't literally title the liveshow in reference to sucking dick. It pisses me off that he positions the viewer as stupid or naive for interpreting the innuendo as referencing sucking dick (take a shot every time I write 'sucking dick' lmao), and for drawing the conclusion that his decision to reference sucking dick in relation to himself, in a video about being authentically yourself and "living your truth" in order to achieve happiness, was relevant. As though we were somehow out of line in coming to that conclusion?

Like,,, I really do understand why he may have regretted it or felt uncomfortable in the aftermath, but at the end of the day it really isn't difficult to imagine why that was so many people's biggest take away from the video. Which is not to say that there weren't other, deeper, interesting things in the video for people to focus on. But unfortunately for Dan, he can't control what people are going to take from his videos. It sucks (heh) to feel like your reaction or interpretation was just completely invalidated, and tbh it feels a bit like he's shitting on the intelligence of anyone who took it that way. I don't think it's fair of him to make people feel bad for interpreting something the way it was clearly intended to be interpreted, even if he did regret or feel anxious about making those jokes in hindsight.


Re: potential professional editing - I guess ultimately I want him to do whatever's best for his mental health, and if that's outsourcing the editing and directing of his videos then he should do that. But just on a purely selfish level, I really hope he doesn't do that. I think if he had someone else edit and direct his videos (other than Phil) they'd lose any and all charm. I watch him and Phil for, Dan's word of the month, what I perceive as their ~authenticity~. Knowing that the video was directed by another person entirely, and then edited by another person entirely, such that Dan's contribution to the video was the idea, presumably script and physical presence, but the overall final product had been constructed by someone who has been completely removed from Dan's channel for the past 8+ years, would be so off-putting to me. If I'm honest, I think I'd stop watching his main channel videos if that happened. I'd still be here for the gaming channel, and Phil (assuming they didn't outsource editing to those channels), but I can't see myself caring about Dan's main channel anymore if that happened.

I understand the annoyance and if his intention was to snub people for correctly interpreting his joke as having an ambiguous, sexual meaning that's just him being haughty and i'd agree. He said what he said, regardless of how he intended it and even if people "technically" misinterpreted from what he wanted to say, there's no reason to make them look like fools for taking it that way.

Is he really doing that though? I'd have to check the liveshow again but I can't remember him saying people were unintelligent or even wrong to think it was sex joke. I think he was upset about how people started writing whole letters of praise because they saw it a a brave step in a coming our, or were vulgarizing it quite a bit. That's what he responded too imo, not the person who just thought "hm, did Dan just make an oral sex joke". I think the tweet he liked that has a punchline that he's "just a clown" attests to this. He's sensitive to people just seeing him a a joker while he wrestled to make a personal statement about his troubles.

And i completely agree on the editing. There's a reason i love their vids and a main one is definitely all the cheeky editing that's going on. The same goes for the filming and just the general vibe that comes from somebody creating and finishing a creative product all by themselves rather than splitting the process up with different people.
Maybe others could do that for them and bring the same vibe, but I'm skeptical. I'd say: give it a shot Dan, but only with the many extra vids a week you're not making today
I agree with @missemma. He's unlikely to do it. They both like to keep control and not having to work with other people to much to do it. If they ever do it, the coming months would feel like the suspect time given the difficult circumstances for producing their vids on tour.

[autumnhearth]

Somebody pointed this out like 15 pages back but I'd like to do it again:
Laughter doesn't go in your mouth. It comes out.
Food doesn't come out of your mouth. It goes in. (Debatable, but laughter isn't.)
So why was the sex part automatically coming both in and out of his mouth?

He could have meant both, but his statement at the end "something else in my mouth" reinforces (to me at least) that he intended "sex" as just something else that goes in his mouth.
Maybe the reason he didn't feel the need to clarify that part is because nowhere did he explicitly say that something sexual was going both in and out of his mouth.
[...]

Firstly,

I had the same thought yesterday, so I can see where you are coming from. However, why would he mention "Laughter, food, and sex" in this combination and then call it "things coming in and out of his mouth" if it wouldn't refer to all of them?

Also, if sex just meant either "coming into my mouth" or "coming out of my mouth", I still don't know what else that would be apart from a penis?

I'm confused... and disappointed because I know there won't be any more communication from Dan regarding this topic. He did his vid, he did some rambling, and now we are left with a bunch of emotions to work out on our own.

Oh and I saw that hello9217 just posted and I agree with that.

Ah. As in -not- a synonym for going. I see. I'll see myself out then.

Food goes in the mouth, laughter comes out of it, “sex” goes *both* in and out and yes “comes” (either in or out). It’s not that hard.

I think I’ve come to a place of calm and acceptance, and yes still sadness for Dan, but I’m less frustrated than last night. I just hope that this wasn’t a reaction to the very few Dan girls being upset when they realized they don’t have a chance with him (not that they ever did). I hope that 1. he didn’t even see that and 2. it wouldn’t affect him as it seemed to six years ago when he assured them (jokingly) not to worry, that they could still marry him or kidnap him and have his babies. I debated about even dredging that up, but when you’re in a bad headspace, some of the same insecurities can resurface.

On the more professionally produced videos bit. I wouldn’t be opposed to Dan making a video or a short series (like the Seven Deadly Sins, no I’m not letting this go) with a crew in the future. I just would feel weird about it being the norm for them. But hey, whatever works.

[Birdie]

but I don't know why people want to revoke his ~queer card over it. He took specificity away from a sex act, that's all that happened and it doesn't erase him saying he loves sex or every other instance up to now of talking about dudes. Dan's gonna Dan but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Whatever. Phil's video can't come soon enough. Save us Phil.

As salty as I am about this whole business, it's nothing to do with whether he's queer or not. We know he is, he knows he is, he knows we know he is and he wanted us to know or there wouldn't have been any same sex attraction mentions. Questioning if he really is queer because of this one incident is weird to me.

Moving on to the other thing: I really wouldn't mind if he got a cameraman or an editor or whatever if that's what he wants. The creative person behind his videos will still be Dan: He'll be writing the videos, he'll be performing them, and to be honest, I have him down as someone who enjoys the writing and performing, but not the actual video making process. So maybe, if he outsources the stuff he doesn't really like doing, he'll have more time (and motivation?) to work on the actual script to put out the kind of video he wants to make. Getting professionals to do the work you don't enjoy/aren't that good at is not "lazy", it's probably a pretty smart move. I don't really get why Youtubers are held to such a high standard when it comes to "handmaking" stuff anyways. Writers get professional help from editors, musicians might write their whole albums themselves and still get professionals to mix and produce the record, but if a Youtuber decides to get professionals to do the filming or editing, it's lazy? Nah. Creative jobs and producing entertainment is damn hard and I admire anyone who does it without a team of professionals to help them out but that doesn't mean having a team that ensures the product you put out is as good as it can be is lazy or wrong.

[Secretstanner]

Sorry gonna post again but about the editor and camera person.

Too be honest I don’t have a problem with it at all and I think it could only really make things better. He’s producing one video if that a month so could having someone to edit/film/write or just help really be that bad? I know dan likes to think he makes amazing profound videos but he gets way too much into his own head and produces in my opinion basic content. I think having a camera person to film might be a bit pretentious when he’s just filming a video a month in a room but if he’s gonna change the videos he makes then I’d say go for it. I don’t actually think dan knows what he even wants to do or make. So he can say that the video will look better but is that really enough? Idk I think he needs someone other than Phil to take a look at what he’s doing. Shane Dawson has completely changed his channel and is more popular than he’s been in so many years. He’s making content that professional but also what he actually likes doing. I know him and dans content are not the same but I wish dan would try more with his individual channel. I wish so many things for dan but he’s the only one holding himself back and all I can do is support what he wants to do. And tbh I don’t see him doing this anytime soon..... so I think I’ll check back in a year if I’m no longer a viewer and see if he got himself a fancy camera person and making more than one video a month.

[Stakhanov]

@Secretstanner Sniff that last sentence made me sad.
Maybe you're right. I was thinking about the ideal scenario but with the coming tour and the low rate of output at which their individual channels and espeically Dan's has been struggling.. maybe it's not about what would be ideal but more what would help their channels survive.
It may be what Dan needs. You kind of changed my mind by looking at it that way. Though i would hope if he ever did get a "crew", he'd be able to do more things, and keep things in his unique style. I just hope he doesn't get the crew and than things go even more south and barely any more content gets put out and the video's just seem to slick and produced but lacking in everything I love about them

[ahriem]

if he does decide to try out professional producing (and i think it could be a good idea by making it seem less daunting to start) i hope he at least makes sure they don't add a constant loop of background music on everything. there's already a lot of sensory input in videos, not sure why some people insist on adding another layer beyond, i guess, some idea that it adds polish or something.

[alittledizzy]

but I don't know why people want to revoke his ~queer card over it. He took specificity away from a sex act, that's all that happened and it doesn't erase him saying he loves sex or every other instance up to now of talking about dudes. Dan's gonna Dan but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Whatever. Phil's video can't come soon enough. Save us Phil.

As salty as I am about this whole business, it's nothing to do with whether he's queer or not. We know he is, he knows he is, he knows we know he is and he wanted us to know or there wouldn't have been any same sex attraction mentions. Questioning if he really is queer because of this one incident is weird to me.

I definitely agree with this. My issue is his shitty method of communicating things to his dedicated audience (Dan's gonna Dan) especially when he's communicating something that triggers such a widespread guilt/shame response out of fans, but it has nothing to do with my thoughts on his actual sexuality.

And in the name of hoping Phil will save us, I'm just gonna throw some cuteness out there from Phil's random midnight "let me act like I'm just now ordering dinner even though Dan said in his liveshow he had leftovers he was going to eat" tweet:

The combination of these two tweets are giving me a mental image of the past week being a slightly pukier version of that time in 2016 when Dan said he watched tv on Netflix in bed all day and made Phil bring sweet potato fries. I hope that Dan was an adequate manservant to Phil in his moments of need.

[hello9217]

And in the name of hoping Phil will save us, I'm just gonna throw some cuteness out there from Phil's random midnight "let me act like I'm just now ordering dinner even though Dan said in his liveshow he had leftovers he was going to eat" tweet:

The combination of these two tweets are giving me a mental image of the past week being a slightly pukier version of that time in 2016 when Dan said he watched tv on Netflix in bed all day and made Phil bring sweet potato fries. I hope that Dan was an adequate manservant to Phil in his moments of need.

I thought this was hilarious because I just had this picture in my head of Dan forcing Phil to wake up and tweet something as a form of damage control. Like Phil usually spends five minutes replying to 3 or 4 people but this time he replied to quite a few people over the span of 30 minutes.

[Ewok]

I thought this was hilarious because I just had this picture in my head of Dan forcing Phil to wake up and tweet something as a form of damage control. Like Phil usually spends five minutes replying to 3 or 4 people but this time he replied to quite a few people over the span of 30 minutes.

I saw this as damage control too, or a way of taking the heat off of Dan. What a good boy who is a friend!

[ratlad]

If I have to see the words “phandivorce, no-homo or antiphan” again today then I might scream. Like seriously people are over reacting a lot about what he said when it comes to the dick discussion. Yes I found it patronising when he said “it’s funny really”, I always find it patronising when he does something serious and then comes along being Mr Jo King but I wouldn’t go so far to @ him and be angry about it. I had to mute the words “dan” and “liveshow” on twitter last night because I was fed up and kind of disgusted about how some people were reacting.

I’ve also rewatched some of the liveshow this morning and I don’t think he really back tracked anymore, he doesn’t specify it wasn’t about penis at all. I know he had a video lined up to show us but maybe he felt anxious or worried. He said himself he changes his mind constantly, so seeing everyone get hyped over one bit of the video whilst missing (what seemed like to him) some big important message probably caused him some anxiety and he over thought everything. I think we should cut him some slack personally.

agree! it's not "no homo" or "phanti" at all, but i can definitely see phantis use this against the phandom and try to use it as an excuse to be homophobic tbh (cause they mostly have weak arguments..)
"phan divorce" is a curse word. Yes, DnP are moving away from each other after their 6 month tour all because Dan said he eats ass in his liveshow.

[Amiaw]

I thought this was hilarious because I just had this picture in my head of Dan forcing Phil to wake up and tweet something as a form of damage control. Like Phil usually spends five minutes replying to 3 or 4 people but this time he replied to quite a few people over the span of 30 minutes.

I saw this as damage control too, or a way of taking the heat off of Dan. What a good boy who is a friend!

The bright spot in this whole situation is all the love that I've seen for Phil. He's not an angel and he's certainly been complicit in things that frustrate the fandom, but he has a way of not stirring the pot that I really appreciate.

Now if he would remember that Younow exists, I'd very much appreciate his opinion on candy and his hot take on pigeon-mating.