Dan & Phil Part 69: our cherry blossom

lesterchuu · Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:37 pm

@watsonian my hunch is that they usually edit it out if it comes to that, but then they probably talk about it afterwards. phil is very insistent on "talking it out" in the recent dapgos but who knows

hello9217 · Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:18 pm

watsonian wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:28 pm The current conversation reminded me, I often wonder how Dan and Phil know when they're pushing or teasing each other too much and when it's still funny or entertaining the audience. Like, in 'How To Make Dan Cringe' Dan says 'this isn't a funny thing that you're doing for a vlog' and then it is, in fact, a funny thing they do for a vlog. And they're both clearly okay with that, so it makes me wonder what the words are for 'actually stop' when saying 'actually stop' is often a part of their humor. Like, do they have a comedy safeword?

I feel like they don't have a safe word but talking in their natural voices seems to be a signal of "ok I seriously need to talk to you and this part will obviously be edited out." Like in pinof 9, Phil managed to scare dan because he spoke naturally and calmly and dan turns toward him because he thinks phil is genuinely having trouble with his phone. On camera they are very upbeat and so it's very noticeable when they drop that just to speak to the other person in something that is meant for their ears only. You can also see this in the gaming bloopers video.

ratlad · Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:35 pm

ame wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:20 pm
ratlad wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:56 pm @ame i agree with this so hard, they balance each other out it seems.
it also kinda reminds me a lot of when dan was explaining what being in love is like in a livestream... fear of the person not being there... hmm.
hmmm its almost like he is speaking from experience

I Guess We Will Never Know This Mystery :/

knq · Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:00 pm

hello9217 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:18 pm
watsonian wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:28 pm The current conversation reminded me, I often wonder how Dan and Phil know when they're pushing or teasing each other too much and when it's still funny or entertaining the audience. Like, in 'How To Make Dan Cringe' Dan says 'this isn't a funny thing that you're doing for a vlog' and then it is, in fact, a funny thing they do for a vlog. And they're both clearly okay with that, so it makes me wonder what the words are for 'actually stop' when saying 'actually stop' is often a part of their humor. Like, do they have a comedy safeword?
I feel like they don't have a safe word but talking in their natural voices seems to be a signal of "ok I seriously need to talk to you and this part will obviously be edited out." Like in pinof 9, Phil managed to scare dan because he spoke naturally and calmly and dan turns toward him because he thinks phil is genuinely having trouble with his phone. On camera they are very upbeat and so it's very noticeable when they drop that just to speak to the other person in something that is meant for their ears only. You can also see this in the gaming bloopers video.

Tone change actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you for pointing this out! Now that you’ve mentioned it, I’m thinking of the first charades video, where in the beginning Phil asks ‘are you actually in pain?’ in what sounds to me like his natural voice. Dan responds directly to the camera, so even though he says ‘agony’ or something it’s communicating the ok to continue.

Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:43 am

LtrllySusan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:47 pm The trailer will definitely include what kind of input they want us to submit for the shows, so it should be at least some days before Brighton.
My guess: vlog today, trailer/instructions Tuesday, joint LS Thursday

@ mods: I have an important question
(sorry for bold face lol but I didn't wanna tag all the mods either)

How much spoilering regarding the tour will be allowed in the main thread? I wasn't around during Tatinof. Will people talk about the exact content of the show ("First they did this, then that happened, then that, oh and there was a big surprise at the end, let me tell you about it"), or will it only be opinions ("It was great, go see it for yourself!")?

I am not quite on the Dan-level of hating spoilers but I don't want to know everything. I was glad I didn't know the twist(s) in Tatinof when watching the recording, but I also don't wanna stay away from the forum until June.

Well, this time around it'll be a bit hard to know what is a spoiler and what isn't. While TATINOF had a script, II is apparently supposed to be a little bit different every time. But here are some guidelines:

> Opinions and discussions go into the main thread, but please be considerate of other users and use spoiler tags for the juicy bits.
> Full reviews go into the designated side threads in the sub forum, no spoiler warnings necesarry.
> Everything to do with Meet & Greets is fine to be posted in the main thread, but we encourage you to post pictures and stories in the side threads too for archiving purposes. It would help us out a lot

Our policy on this might change as the tour progresses and things about the show become more clear though.

ratlad · Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:49 am

wait is there gonna be a new thread dedicated to ii spoilers?

Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:03 am

ratlad wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:49 am wait is there gonna be a new thread dedicated to ii spoilers?

There is a subforum for the Interactive Introverts tour here. There is a thread for each show. Currently, some IDB'ers are using the threads to discuss or plan meetups for a particular show. Once the shows start, any discussion with spoilers (without needing spoiler tags) for each performance can go on its respective thread! These threads are also a great place to archive M&G photos or any other memorabilia related to a particular show.

fancybum · Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:15 am

Oh wow, I listened to a podcast this morning that is way too relevant to the "comedy safe word" discussion that I want to talk about it, but a lot of it will be very much not D&P related (but still kind of..?) so I'll put it under a cut. It is about 2 dudes with brown hair though, so like, close enough.

Ok so in the latest episode of Dynamic Banter (teeny bit of podcast #spon), titled 'The DB DB DBs', Steve and Mike (the hosts - duh -and very good friends with each other) had a discussion about Steve realizing something he does genuinely bothers Mike even though it's been an ongoing bit on the podcast ("it" being Steve making very loud noises in the name of comedy) and the humour came from Mike being bothered by it. Honestly, even just as a listener, you could hear Mike being Actually Very Annoyed about it during some episodes, but Steve said he thought this whole time that Mike was only playing it up for the bit. For a little more context since nobody will actually listen to it (but you should, it's great): the ep started off on a slightly more serious note than usual because Steve talked about having passed a kidney stone this week and obviously did not have a great time, which then segued into him discussing - not for the first time - why he never wants to have kids (the tl;dr being: being alive is a nightmare). So the conversation about the "comedy safe word", or lack thereof in this case, happened as part of a larger frustrating conversation about why life is kind of terrible (or not! according to Mike), which I also want to talk about (and kind of relate to D&P?). But first, semi-relevant quotes (or an overly long transcript...) for even more context:

Even if you don't know who these people are, it was really interesting to see that even people who are super close don't always realize they're overstepping a boundary or pushing limits too much sometimes with each other when performing for an audience. I think even with D&P, if something does get genuinely annoying (or whatever else) they may gloss over it if they think it's entertaining enough for the viewer (the only example I can really think of right now is Phil shushing Dan fairly often in gaming videos- is it actually just out of a concern of disturbing the neighbours, or is part of it that it's actually super fucking annoying to Phil sometimes? and if so, I wonder what kinds of conversations happen around that off camera. well probably none since he doesn't stop) Unnecessarily loud noises, cool, it was related. But just like here, I don't think D&P would have any trouble talking something out (off camera obvs) if something was actually a genuine bother. As Phil (apparently) said, some conversations need to be had.

I also thought it was interesting to look at the rest of this (outside of the loud noises issue lol) with Dan in the Steve role and Phil in the Mike role. Mike was trying to push this completely unnecessary positivity onto Steve's perspective of the world when he was just trying to discuss why life is very often just about enduring pain and fear, and not wanting to inflict that on another person (by literally creating a child to grow up and deal with all this shit as well). Like nowhere did Steve say 'wow life is 100% awful and I want to die', he was just stating his perspective on things (after an especially shitty week at that), and Mike seemed to.. take it personally? When it has nothing to do with him? I'll actually give Phil more credit than to think he would have this much of a manipulative reaction, because Mike's response when boiled down was basically "why aren't you grateful to be alive when you have a great job and great friends (me)?" and trying to make a comparison between 'things on this podcast are sometimes not great for my well being, but I love what we do so much overall that it's worth it to me to endure it for the greater good" as if that's analogous to having to endure the suffering of existence. Starting and continuing a podcast is a choice. Starting and continuing your own life is not a choice in a comparable way, because the way he's framing it kind of creates a fucked up ultimatum of "enjoy life or kill yourself"/"admit the good makes the bad worth it all, or..." He doesn't seem to grasp that accepting you're already alive and may as well make the best of it because there isn't realistically another option available (fear of pain/death being the entire point of the conversation to begin with) is all that Steve was talking about. He has no choice but to be here and deal with it, good and bad, but why should he have to be happy about it at all times? I found that part pretty frustrating to listen to because of the way Mike just didn't get it and couldn't just allow Steve to think life is ultimately a bit of a burden. Which is basically Dan's whole thing, if a bit more lightly stated ("just here with no purpose but to eat and have sex" or whatever the liveshow comments were that basically went on to become the Living My Truth vid). Accepting you have to put up with life vs. thinking (or just appearing to think) everything is great because you shouldn't focus on the negative. Steve vs. Mike. Dan vs. Phil.

And I think Phil has said something along those lines before- not to stress out about things you can't control? Maybe? He's obviously said he likes to focus on good things, but he's also often expressed anxiety about death and so I think his 'focus on and enjoy the good things in life' comes from a place somewhat closer to fear (enjoy them while you can) rather than Mike's place of content and shrugging acceptance. Maybe that fear makes Phil more sympathetic to Dan's views in a way that Mike isn't to Steve's. Like I'm sure Phil still tries to be encouraging in the face of ~negativity as he clearly prefers not to dwell on it (publicly at least..), but not in a way that basically just dismisses and invalidates Dan's mindset. Did this get weird, sorry, Mike's great and I'm sure his intent wasn't to be dismissive, but damn, trying to guilt somebody into appreciating life in the way that you do, or to try to make them think that one (or however many) friendship(s) or love should be enough to make life "worth" living, when that's not even the conversation, is just not the way to do things.

Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:57 am

oooo i rarely wish we had a 'like' function (too many drawbacks), but days like today i want to respond to every single post on the last two pages yet i have nothing to contribute.

love how the whiny!dan talk evolved from bdsm, to child psychology and balancing out each other's anxieties and insecurities, to life philosophies and coping mechanisms. great observations of their natural voices with examples, i would agree that is something they both use either consciously or subconsciously to navigate filming and what is public/private. also made me wanna go back and watch them all!

@fancybum i feel this hits too close to home to adequately respond, but i wanted to say the parallels with dan and phil are pretty apt and even though i don't know the guys you speak of, you explained it so it made perfect sense. so thanks for the interesting post! sometimes i do think dan and phil are two sides of the same coin, (to very different extremities and functional abilities/disruption, obviously). in that, avoidance vs dwelling are both responses to fear, with somewhere in the middle being the 'optimal' survival mode from a mental health point of view. there are strategies to knock your coping closer to the centre peg but to an extent it may not be within your control in any given moment. going back to the balance thing, i do think that could be something they struggle with more than other issues to find their balance on.

the people in your example, i definitely identify with the guy who just wants to feel it's okay to acknowledge existence can be painful and tiring and not have it be taken as an attack or rejection, or worse, a plea for help. any depression-prone person knows you basically kiss goodbye that right to express your philosophical views objectively in a conversation with someone close to you, as soon as they know your history. i don't know that guys history, though. and that's the point; it's not depression to express those things, it's a valid and healthy perspective on existence. they can co-exist and overlap, but they're not synonymous.

dismissing someone's right to feel and express negative emotion and possibilities is not the right way to relate to someone and meet each other in the middle, but it happens so very often even between people who care about each immensely. sometimes it is just about fear, and that clashing of coping styles. but sometimes the person is just content, as you say, and unable to (or doesn't see the point, in) accessing their empathy to understand a different mind. sometimes it's hard to judge which is happening. the latter it isn't helped by the western cultural phenomena having its peak right now, the cult of affirmations and commodifying 'finding your authenticity' (empty, meaningless and non-pragmatic phrases like 'toxic people', 'emotional vampire', 'surrounding yourself with positivity', etc). i've shared this opinion before but it's a reason i think Dan is as popular as he is online; he was in the right place at the right time and tapped into the subculture who gathers in places on the internet and in humour types, who reject the mantra. it's fascinating to see that interact with phil's methods of coping and people who enjoy phil, and maybe that's why together as a package they hold the appeal they do for so many people.

the dan being loud thing is interesting - i go back and forth between whether it bothers phil, or whether he's anxious about thinking it bothers the audience. comedy safeword is my new favourite phrase. it could apply to many aspects. i'm definitely gonna be thinking more about this...

edit: heavy convo so i'm gonna drop this ~not sorry

mermaid blood wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:56 am

flarequake wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:16 am Wow, I’ve never seen that clip before, the Batman voice is scary anyway, I’ve never liked it in the movies. With how he’s joked about kinks including choking and then joked that it’s the one kink he doesn’t actually have, well, who knows really, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s into a few things. I wouldn’t worry too much about calling him a brat or a baby, it’s not being said in a bdsm context here.

*cough* my favourite part of that clip is "normal, good sex". aw, dan.

...speaking of dan and sex, this made me laugh on my timeline earlier today:

and i didn't see phil's liking tyler's tweet posted yet:

fieldoflovers · Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:57 am

fancybum wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:15 am Oh wow, I listened to a podcast this morning that is way too relevant to the "comedy safe word" discussion that I want to talk about it, but a lot of it will be very much not D&P related (but still kind of..?) so I'll put it under a cut. It is about 2 dudes with brown hair though, so like, close enough.

Ok so in the latest episode of Dynamic Banter (teeny bit of podcast #spon), titled 'The DB DB DBs', Steve and Mike (the hosts - duh -and very good friends with each other) had a discussion about Steve realizing something he does genuinely bothers Mike even though it's been an ongoing bit on the podcast ("it" being Steve making very loud noises in the name of comedy) and the humour came from Mike being bothered by it. Honestly, even just as a listener, you could hear Mike being Actually Very Annoyed about it during some episodes, but Steve said he thought this whole time that Mike was only playing it up for the bit. For a little more context since nobody will actually listen to it (but you should, it's great): the ep started off on a slightly more serious note than usual because Steve talked about having passed a kidney stone this week and obviously did not have a great time, which then segued into him discussing - not for the first time - why he never wants to have kids (the tl;dr being: being alive is a nightmare). So the conversation about the "comedy safe word", or lack thereof in this case, happened as part of a larger frustrating conversation about why life is kind of terrible (or not! according to Mike), which I also want to talk about (and kind of relate to D&P?). But first, semi-relevant quotes (or an overly long transcript...) for even more context:

9:50 Steve: I feel like we should be prepared- people should be prepared for the eventuality of terrible pain
Mike: Sure
S: And just mentally prepare for it

10:10 M: This is what life is. The good things are as good as they are because the bad things also exist and life is a balance and we do our best, and that's why we're artists and we're here trying to figure it out. And I hope that you find some happiness
S: My thing is, we can sit all day and talk about the terrible things happening on the planet-
M: Sure, like being able to work with your friends and make art with your friends for a living

13:04 M: My mom lives her life in such a way where she's always been very much about like, 'why would you worry about the shit you can't control' and I've done my best to live that way every day of my life

14:20 S: In my life, just this experience of passing a fucking kidney stone has just awoken new potential pain outlets in my life, which I could not conceive beforehand, and it also just adds more to the roster of not passing my genes along
M: Something like that doesn't make you appreciate sitting on the couch playing Jackbox Games with 4 of your best friends even more because you know about the pain you had, and in comparison, this is worlds apart from that?

15:10 S: It's more like I'm appreciating the life that I have but I'm also upset that I also have all of these problems, and it's just one of those things where like, this is my life, this is my pain to bear, these are my issues that I have to deal with on my own
M: Sure
S: And I wouldn't want to give that to another individual

17:10 S: There's so many factors in deciding to have a child and since I've never dove too deeply into it - I did for a time when I was considering saving my marriage - it's one of those things where like, I can't change who I am and it's perfectly fine and it's totally okay and normal for someone to not want to have children. It's as okay as you wanting to have children.

21:25 M: This is the perfect example. That [loud noise], and things like that, since the inception of our original podcast have continuously and honest to god hurt my physical being. Hurt my long-term hearing, hurt the inside of my head, I've gone home with headaches, migraines
S: Really?

22:50 S: When the loud sounds occur, there is a 75% chance it was not intended to be as loud as it came out as
M: Steve, I don't think anyone intended for you to have kidney stones. I don't think the intention matters at all. I'm not saying you're doing it-
S: I think it only matters because I don't want my friend to feel pain due to bits
M: You're a little late to the party on that one, Steve

24:00 S: A lot of this is.. I'm a little unaware of. It is incredibly unclear to me, and to a lot of people, if you are actually upset or not about it
M: I love that. That's my favourite part of my life.
S: And I feel like, as a result of that, it makes the bit work. But if you're truly upset by it, then the bit has to stop.
M: I don't think being upset has anything to do with what I'm trying to say here. I think there's always times in this podcast where I could be physically hurt at any minute, and I still do it.
S: Well, but that's not fair

25:55 S: Listen, I appreciate your strength and the knowledge that there's more good in this endeavor than bad, but I don't want there to be any bad. Because for me there's zero bad in making this show with you.
M: You know what's beautiful about this, and I'm not trying to come to a conclusion, or make everything easier, but that's exactly what we were talking about the whole first half of the podcast. You want an existence where there's not any bad-
S: No, I don't want that
M: Because that would be the best way to go
S: No no no
M: But you would rather have that
S: I mean, who doesn't want that? But it's impossible. It doesn't exist. What is not impossible is for loud sounds that hurt my friend to stop. That is possible.
M: Well, it's not exactly the first time I've said 'that was a little loud', and it seems like it's impossible because it keeps happening
S: But this is the first time that you've expressed that truly it seems to actually upset you
M: I don't think that's true either

27:55 M: There have been times, we have them on video, where I take my headphones off for a second because I just need a break from what's happening
S: Which seems like a funny bit, but it's not a bit
M: But it brings other people joy, and I still have joy doing the podcast, so it's like you take the good, you take the bad

29:25 S: I don't want it to be a point of contention in the future
M: It's not, man. You're making it so much bigger. I was trying to make a point and trying to connect it to the first thing, and I thought I had it nicely wrapped up

30:35 S: This is truly the first time that I feel like for sure you're being truthful and it's not a bit. Because I'm telling you Mike, before we started talking about this, I was sure that your distaste for the loud sounds was just the dynamic of us, and that's it. But it sounds like it actually hurts you and sucks, and so I hate that.

32:35 S: In my life, I don't want to hurt people
M: I don't think that you're doing it on purpose, man
S: No, certainly not. Sometimes yes, for a funny joke. But I truly did not understand the ramifications of how it makes my good friend and co-host feel, and I don't like that.
M: Okay, I don't think- this is gonna sound worse than it is- I don't think that's my problem.

(They finish talking about it entirely around 35:00. And if someone actually read this, you should take the extra step and actually listen because it's all a friendly conversation with laughter that plain text doesn't really do justice to.)
Even if you don't know who these people are, it was really interesting to see that even people who are super close don't always realize they're overstepping a boundary or pushing limits too much sometimes with each other when performing for an audience. I think even with D&P, if something does get genuinely annoying (or whatever else) they may gloss over it if they think it's entertaining enough for the viewer (the only example I can really think of right now is Phil shushing Dan fairly often in gaming videos- is it actually just out of a concern of disturbing the neighbours, or is part of it that it's actually super fucking annoying to Phil sometimes? and if so, I wonder what kinds of conversations happen around that off camera. well probably none since he doesn't stop) Unnecessarily loud noises, cool, it was related. But just like here, I don't think D&P would have any trouble talking something out (off camera obvs) if something was actually a genuine bother. As Phil (apparently) said, some conversations need to be had.

I also thought it was interesting to look at the rest of this (outside of the loud noises issue lol) with Dan in the Steve role and Phil in the Mike role. Mike was trying to push this completely unnecessary positivity onto Steve's perspective of the world when he was just trying to discuss why life is very often just about enduring pain and fear, and not wanting to inflict that on another person (by literally creating a child to grow up and deal with all this shit as well). Like nowhere did Steve say 'wow life is 100% awful and I want to die', he was just stating his perspective on things (after an especially shitty week at that), and Mike seemed to.. take it personally? When it has nothing to do with him? I'll actually give Phil more credit than to think he would have this much of a manipulative reaction, because Mike's response when boiled down was basically "why aren't you grateful to be alive when you have a great job and great friends (me)?" and trying to make a comparison between 'things on this podcast are sometimes not great for my well being, but I love what we do so much overall that it's worth it to me to endure it for the greater good" as if that's analogous to having to endure the suffering of existence. Starting and continuing a podcast is a choice. Starting and continuing your own life is not a choice in a comparable way, because the way he's framing it kind of creates a fucked up ultimatum of "enjoy life or kill yourself"/"admit the good makes the bad worth it all, or..." He doesn't seem to grasp that accepting you're already alive and may as well make the best of it because there isn't realistically another option available (fear of pain/death being the entire point of the conversation to begin with) is all that Steve was talking about. He has no choice but to be here and deal with it, good and bad, but why should he have to be happy about it at all times? I found that part pretty frustrating to listen to because of the way Mike just didn't get it and couldn't just allow Steve to think life is ultimately a bit of a burden. Which is basically Dan's whole thing, if a bit more lightly stated ("just here with no purpose but to eat and have sex" or whatever the liveshow comments were that basically went on to become the Living My Truth vid). Accepting you have to put up with life vs. thinking (or just appearing to think) everything is great because you shouldn't focus on the negative. Steve vs. Mike. Dan vs. Phil.

And I think Phil has said something along those lines before- not to stress out about things you can't control? Maybe? He's obviously said he likes to focus on good things, but he's also often expressed anxiety about death and so I think his 'focus on and enjoy the good things in life' comes from a place somewhat closer to fear (enjoy them while you can) rather than Mike's place of content and shrugging acceptance. Maybe that fear makes Phil more sympathetic to Dan's views in a way that Mike isn't to Steve's. Like I'm sure Phil still tries to be encouraging in the face of ~negativity as he clearly prefers not to dwell on it (publicly at least..), but not in a way that basically just dismisses and invalidates Dan's mindset. Did this get weird, sorry, Mike's great and I'm sure his intent wasn't to be dismissive, but damn, trying to guilt somebody into appreciating life in the way that you do, or to try to make them think that one (or however many) friendship(s) or love should be enough to make life "worth" living, when that's not even the conversation, is just not the way to do things.

That was really interesting to read, thanks for it. I gotta be honest I know both Mike and Steve from Sourcefed and TheValleyfolk but I don’t listen to dynamic banter simply b/c it has too many in-jokes at this point for me to get into. I do really think that Steve and Dan do have similarities (esp Dan on the gaming channel), they’re brash a little bit more out there, will say anything etc. though i kind of wanted to represent the phil/mike side of things.
I’m going to put my thoughts under the spoiler because it got long but i read the situation a bit differently.

This situation I think comes down to whether you care about the comfort levels of your audience vs. your co-workers/partners. Comedy as a thing pushes boundries and definately edges on and is weird. As a sourcefed fan, Steve’s bits have been funny as fuck but a lot of them are recurring and this annoys some part of the audience(comment sections from back then def show this) however that didn’t mean Steve was actually crossing any lines and thus didn’t stop those jokes. There have been bits before that were too far, and because he had to respect some workplace boundaries he stopped (there was a poop in a trashcan bit once, it was weird) and respecting his coworkers meant reevaluating that joke.

So when it comes to the Mike thing, do I think Steve knew Mike wasn’t acting? No. I don’t think he had any clue, otherwise he would have stopped. Is it Mike’s responsibility to tell Steve? Possibly, but it sounds like a hard convo to have. But I do think this situation really does bring up the question of intent. Steve’s intent with the bit was entertainment similar to when Dan yells or storms out (impossible quiz) wheras Mike’s and phil’s intent I think has always been geared towards a relationship (however false/put on) with the auidence.

So the “should u complain abt ur life” thing. Mike’s comedy isn’t harsh (imo), its never mean spirted or super edgy, and his advice videos on youtube are supposed to leave his audience hopeful about the world. His intent is to have a positive impact on the person watching and that is very similar to Phil. To when they see their friends go down the dark path of “everything sucks” at that moment I don’t think either of them are interacting only with their friends, they’re also interacting with the audience. So Phil laughing death off and Mike reminding Steve of the good shit is meant as a reassurance to the audience that things have a positive take. It also may just be both of them not wanting to freak an audience out because when you have an audience that big speculation occurs. People talk abt if one of any of them looks a little bit more tired, people start hashtags to cheer dan up if he seems off in a video and if being “real” gets too negative than you’ve just worried a whole bunch of people while ur intent was to make them smile.
I think you can really see this in the way this group approaches personal stuff online.

Steve and Dan are without a doubt more open abt bad stuff in life(Steve way more than Dan but still) and I think the not sharing the bad stuff or the personal stuff rather giving advice or being generally positive does set boundaries with their audience and in scenarios where one of them is annoyed, they might not say something because they care about the audience getting an entertaining/positive experience over a more realistic less funny one. I think jackspecticeye (i might be misattributing) said something like he doesn’t want to involve his audience in the business side of things because that’s not their job and i thing phil and mike are the same.

So where you read their conversations as two people, i would argue that the audience plays a role in how both phil and mike react. They are aware of the listening audience and i’m sure irl their dynamic is at least a little different and mike calls steve out (he probs is still nice just less accepting of a bit) since he doesn’t have to be entertaining all the time and i’m sure dnp get annoyed at each other or make one too many rat jokes and have to hash it out. And i’m sure they would let each other vent a little bit more freely without it coming off as dismissive because it wouldn’t be performance.

This has gotten very long so i’ll just say i want these people to collab now, come on, give the people what they want (try not to read this in a whiny!dan voice)

And also i was thinking about the reverse, where dan got annoyed at phil, and i think the swearing thing was the most the i could come up with (and that was eandearing) anyone know any instances?

phantastically-avg · Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:53 pm

fieldoflovers wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:57 am And also i was thinking about the reverse, where dan got annoyed at phil, and i think the swearing thing was the most the i could come up with (and that was eandearing) anyone know any instances?

I have a terrible memory for any of their old stuff/liveshows, so this is the closest I could come up with. In the first few minutes, he sounds a little irritated (Phil saying to watch them when they go to the toilet, not setting his hotspot up etc), but nothing major.

Also maybe with the Gamingmas announcement when Phil was messing with him and forgetting he forgot what he was supossed to say. Then again, that gave us the cutest little look after the initial irritation, so...

ETA: I haven't watched them in a while, but if there's ever going to be an instance of annoyed Dan (towards Phil), I'd be money it'd be in one of the Impossible Quiz videos.

Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:45 pm

a) Phil's liked tweet! Oh, god, I love his 2018 character development.

b) The entire discussion on comedy safe words is fascinating. I've never heard of those guys but I'm totally intrigued now.

c) I think for Dan getting annoyed at Phil, I'd definitely say confession roulette. I think both of them were a little raw during that video - obviously keeping things camera safe but with a twist of realness about it that isn't territory they venture into often.

d) I'm already antsy for Phil's vloggy goodness. With phandoms penchants for getting themselves twisted into knots over things on a regular basis, it's kind of like an excited fear-dread feeling.

lesterchuu · Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:51 pm

mermaid blood wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:57 am oooo i rarely wish we had a 'like' function (too many drawbacks), but days like today i want to respond to every single post on the last two pages yet i have nothing to contribute.

honestly, i feel the same. so many things eloquently said over here like its a goddamn poetry book.

anyways, those twitter screencaps man....i never noticed the hand thing but ive got mad respect for the person who noticed it first since its really subtle if youre watching the original video.

also, i find phil liking tylers tweet very interesting

topdanhowellmemes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:53 pm Also maybe with the Gamingmas announcement when Phil was messing with him and forgetting he forgot what he was supossed to say. Then again, that gave us the cutest little look after the initial irritation, so...

ETA: I haven't watched them in a while, but if there's ever going to be an instance of annoyed Dan (towards Phil), I'd be money it'd be in one of the Impossible Quiz videos.

i rewatched that bit again today and i feel like rather than being angry-annoyed, its more of a disbelief-annoyance( idk words are hard) like in a "ohmyGOD phil" kind of way. also, that gamingmas announcement showcased how phil is quite adept at lying when he means it. that clueless expression, the way he stutters a bit - though his expression was so convincing - i think he cracked a bit into a smile when dan showed his "are you fucking kidding me?" face.

(ive stuck a short clip of it i found on the youtubez for easy viewing, it starts at 0:42)

Shibi · Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:52 pm

I actually quite like the comedy safe word idea, I never heard of it before.

fancybum · Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:17 pm

An emphatic YES to everything mermaid blood and fieldoflovers said, nothing to add, just thank you and YES :thanks:

alittledizzy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:45 pm b) The entire discussion on comedy safe words is fascinating. I've never heard of those guys but I'm totally intrigued now.

Get out, yes you have! Steve Zaragoza??

malday · Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:55 pm

re: instances when Dan and Phil annoyed each other.

I remember in the joint livestream from last year both seemed kind of exasperated, first Phil @10:20 because Dan was interrupting him and even did a typical "oh my god", and then Dan @ 37:12 (thanks timestamps thread!) getting annoyed at how Phil tells stories and interrupting him again (and Phil getting annoyed again in return)

.

sparkle · Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:56 pm

Completely fucking late to the party (I bought a Switch. I've played so much Mario Kart its unreal and I started therapy... yay) but Dans last video is a fucking gift. The day I am over Phil Lester dropping an f-bomb is a sign I might be over seeing Dans actual literal fucking HEAD between his thighs. I am so ready for the tour. I am so ready for this level of fan-service.

And the gaming video. Dan saying he would fuck and kill his clone - a. same, and b. this is just another instance of how they are giving me life this year. Also if anybody still wants to argue that Dan is in any way straight can I submit this for evidence?

ratlad · Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:57 pm

Shibi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:52 pm I actually quite like the comedy safe word idea, I never heard of it before.

I don't know how many of you watch RPDR season 10, but I immediately thought of the last episode where Blair and Monique use Vanjie as their "comedy safe word" and now I can't stop picturing DaP screaming Vanjie, Vaaaanjie on stage

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING LMAO

Speedygonz33 · Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:27 pm

So do we think that the vloggy goodness will eventually come out today?

yeetussy · Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:53 pm

Speedygonz33 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:27 pm So do we think that the vloggy goodness will eventually come out today?

Why must all men lie

obsessivelymoody · Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:58 pm

knq · Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:10 pm

malday wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:55 pm re: instances when Dan and Phil annoyed each other.

I remember in the joint livestream from last year both seemed kind of exasperated, first Phil @10:20 because Dan was interrupting him and even did a typical "oh my god", and then Dan @ 37:12 (thanks timestamps thread!) getting annoyed at how Phil tells stories and interrupting him again (and Phil getting annoyed again in return) .

That is one of my favorite live shows!

Initially I thought asking ‘are you scared?’ or them saying they’re scared might be the comedy safe word, or like, a ‘yellow’ at least. This show is a good example, because Phil is doing something they didn’t plan on camera, so I feel like he was checking in at 25:20. Another instance is the pinof with the ‘trust fall’ where I think Dan is genuinely afraid of being dropped for laughs. Aaaand a third instance that just occurred to me is Phil vs the Praying Mantis where I thought Dan was being especially cautious of Phil possibly letting the bug out of the glass as a joke, which of course he didn’t, he just named it Winston.

In the live show, I feel like Phil is annoyed in a way that is performative and meant to be funny. I don’t personally read it as ‘this isn’t funny anymore’ annoyance, but I also find Phil hard to read. It's noteworthy that Dan reads someone saying he’s annoying in the chat right after that, Phil tells him to read a positive comment, and then Phil says “there you go. See? Don’t give into the haters” which I’m guessing is just a phrase they use, but Phil referring to fans as ‘haters’ for calling Dan annoying when Dan was obviously being annoying strikes me as a pretty strong statement from Phil.

I can’t remember the exact live show now, but there was a joint one where Dan was talking about a theme park and mentioned some ride making Phil feel sick, and then said Phil threw up afterwords. I wish I could link it, sorry. I remember thinking Phil’s complaining about that was more genuine sounding than comedic, and I thought Dan might have picked up on that and tried to fix it by bringing up some ride that made him sick too.

I’m with @alittledizzy on the Roulette quiz as an example of Dan being genuinely uncomfortable. I find that hard to re-watch so I can’t analyze much, but I felt like perhaps dnp had different ideas about the philosophy behind the show, like Dan would have preferred to go over what they were going to talk about first and make it camera appropriate, and Phil thought it was important not to do that because they were supposed to be setting an example for people on the special confronting-your-friends day (it was some sort of day promoting talking out your problems, right? Which Phil is particularly a fan of teaching people, so that seems plausible to me).

yeetussy · Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:19 pm

Lmao ig all I have to do is complain and things happen

They looked so good throughout and I want more BTS stuff for this tour

That’s all I have to say thank you for coming to my TEDtalk

Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:19 pm

SCREECHING AT HOW GOOD THAT VLOG WAS. brb rewatching 84 times.

fancybum · Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:20 pm

crying