Dan & Phil Part 71: ty ly bb

[Speedygonz33]

I'm sorry, who is Hazel? I'm assuming that you are not talking about Hazel Heyes.

I am, she lives in Ireland and is friends with Dan and Phil

[missemma]

I’ll admit I find it very odd that Dan agreed to let a fan kiss him on the cheek yet when he goes to hug any fan he literally looks like he wants to die. I don’t know enough about the story (or really care tbh) though to form an opinion on it but just seems a bit odd. I remember the no kissing them statement from tatinof too, and there was also a statement about them not signing bodies either. Eh, fans get up to some weird stuff. I think touching their faces is creepy enough.

Also, yay to Kath being there tonight. Where is his Dad?! Was he there too?

[kindofatrashcan]

I'm sorry, who is Hazel? I'm assuming that you are not talking about Hazel Heyes.

I am, she lives in Ireland and is friends with Dan and Phil

Oh! I know that they are friends, but i thought that Hazel was in London at the moment. That's why i assumed that. Sorry if my comment sounded mean or something

[ratlad]

i hope dan's next vid is about therapy
i'm not going to hold any expectations though.
i just *hope*

[sugar]

I’ll admit I find it very odd that Dan agreed to let a fan kiss him on the cheek yet when he goes to hug any fan he literally looks like he wants to die. I don’t know enough about the story (or really care tbh) though to form an opinion on it but just seems a bit odd. I remember the no kissing them statement from tatinof too, and there was also a statement about them not signing bodies either. Eh, fans get up to some weird stuff. I think touching their faces is creepy enough.

Also, yay to Kath being there tonight. Where is his Dad?! Was he there too?

ugh, thank you! no offense really if anyone here has done that pose but i genuinely want to die when i see people's m&g photos where they're holding deppy's faces....very uncomfortable.

i also feel weird about the hand holding ones but that really seems to not be a popular opinion so

[hello9217]

I’ll admit I find it very odd that Dan agreed to let a fan kiss him on the cheek yet when he goes to hug any fan he literally looks like he wants to die. I don’t know enough about the story (or really care tbh) though to form an opinion on it but just seems a bit odd. I remember the no kissing them statement from tatinof too, and there was also a statement about them not signing bodies either. Eh, fans get up to some weird stuff. I think touching their faces is creepy enough.

Also, yay to Kath being there tonight. Where is his Dad?! Was he there too?

Yeah I thought it was really weird that he said yes given that they both have said no in the past. Also people have said Nigel, Phil's dad, is with them. It's really nice that they got to see them before they set off and probably won't be back home for awhile.

[sonicgreen]

I'm sorry, who is Hazel? I'm assuming that you are not talking about Hazel Heyes.

I am, she lives in Ireland and is friends with Dan and Phil

Oh! I know that they are friends, but i thought that Hazel was in London at the moment. That's why i assumed that. Sorry if my comment sounded mean or something

Hazel lives in London (in a flat with Dodie), but even if she was visiting back home, I don't think dnp are that close to her. Now that we know Kath is in dublin, it makes sense they all went to a local pub together.

[lesterchuu]

idk where else to post this (and this might be considered a shitpost) but ive been trying to doodle @ratlad horse ficlet from this morning and i found one flaw in that phil doesnt have a lamp anymore. i was trying to find reference for phils bedside table so i went to look at his videos and i noticed his most recent setup is just houseplants on table. i backtracked till pinof 7 and found his silver lamp but on the next pinof its gone.

it could be that he just doesnt use it anymore so he just put it away or something (for the purpose of the doodle tho, ill just draw the silver lamp still)

also am i this starved for d+p content that im actually making a post about phillys lost lamp? yes. yes i am.

[obvsly]

idk where else to post this (and this might be considered a shitpost) but ive been trying to doodle @ratlad horse ficlet from this morning and i found one flaw in that phil doesnt have a lamp anymore.
...
it could be that he just doesnt use it anymore so he just put it away or something (for the purpose of the doodle tho, ill just draw the silver lamp still)

Well it's probably next to "Dan's" bed now.

[ratlad]

idk where else to post this (and this might be considered a shitpost) but ive been trying to doodle @ratlad horse ficlet from this morning and i found one flaw in that phil doesnt have a lamp anymore.
...
it could be that he just doesnt use it anymore so he just put it away or something (for the purpose of the doodle tho, ill just draw the silver lamp still)

Well it's probably next to "Dan's" bed now.

he's always giving his stuff to dan for some reason :-/ like his mirror, straighter, shoes... and now lamp!!!!!!

[Stakhanov]

Fuck, I typed a whole post about about The Girl and The Kiss and then the vpn crashed on me and it's lost

So basically I don't think the girl is to blame since we don't even know if she got the mail and was aware.
Even if she was, it's at most impolite and Dan didn't seem to mind to much so it's a matter of keeping perspective.
The broader picture is that they have organized these meet and greets and are asking a hefty price for the privilege of greeting them 30 seconds. They're experienced youtubers and i think Dan is setting his boundaries just fine, he doesn't need anyone setting for them especially since we don't know what their take on all of it is. Maybe they don't really mind, maybe the hugging and greeting is just as uncomfortable to them, maybe they dread but do it out of fear and to protect their reputation or maybe they dread it at the same time want to do it because they know it's what a lot of people desire and they genuinely like to please their fans more than any discomfort that comes with physical touch.

The people who were shouting down Marianne for her demand not to film the show (an actual breach of copyright) yet now stir up drama and try to blame this girl, should take a look in the mirror and are huge hypocrites. A much nastier crime than a girl timidly asking her idol for a kiss on the cheek as far as i'm concerned

[liola]

Fuck, I typed a whole post about about The Girl and The Kiss and then the vpn crashed on me and it's lost

So basically I don't think the girl is to blame since we don't even know if she got the mail and was aware.
Even if she was, it's at most impolite and Dan didn't seem to mind to much so it's a matter of keeping perspective.
The broader picture is that they have organized these meet and greets and are asking a hefty price for the privilege of greeting them 30 seconds. They're experienced youtubers and i think Dan is setting his boundaries just fine, he doesn't need anyone setting for them especially since we don't know what their take on all of it is. Maybe they don't really mind, maybe the hugging and greeting is just as uncomfortable to them, maybe they dread but do it out of fear and to protect their reputation or maybe they dread it at the same time want to do it because they know it's what a lot of people desire and they genuinely like to please their fans more than any discomfort that comes with physical touch.

The people who were shouting down Marianne for her demand not to film the show (an actual breach of copyright) yet now stir up drama and try to blame this girl, should take a look in the mirror and are huge hypocrites. A much nastier crime than a girl timidly asking her idol for a kiss on the cheek as far as i'm concerned

I disagree with this. While I don't think the girl deserves a witch hunt I think it's a dangerous idea to think that because they're used to uncomfortable interactions and because people pay to meet them then we can almost brush it off. You're right, they have set up boundaries and these boundaries are as follow: fans are not allowed to kiss them. This girl didn't respect the boundaries and, even worse in my opinion, set a precedent that will make Dan looks like an asshole the next time someone ask - and someone will, of course they will, because if someone managed to do it why wouldn't they?

It's a dangerous behaviour because while they are the artists and can set the boundaries for how they meet people, when it comes to things like this there's a power imbalance: if they disappoint someone it's their image that is on the line, and for someone like them their image is their most valued asset - and let's be real, a teenager who paid hella money to meet them, maybe even with money from their parents (never mind that this was someone who didn't paid at all, they couldn't know this) is bound to easily complain because in the mind of many people, a money transaction means that you have the right to expect a certain kind of service.

The Marianne situation was just rude, but proves my point: she was acting in the realm of her power, to be the one that disappoints fans (maybe even wrongly so) so that they don't have to be put in that position.

It's not a matter of blaming the person, and of course Dan is old enough that he can say no if he wants to, but I don't think it's fair to him to think that it was some thing he could've done easily and I hope people realize that this shouldn't be brushed aside as nothing

[Stakhanov]

@liola I agree that we shouldn't brush it off automatically and that doing that is unfair. I'm making a distinction between blaming the girl and the act by itself. The girl, we don't even know if she was aware so I just wanted to comment on the people in the fandom who waste little time dragging her into the mud. I heard she even got some online death threats and sadly it's just all to recognizable for me that a person who in the eyes of some of the fandom made some transgression against them gets bullied.

What she did by itself is more nuanced. Yes, I agree that we should respect the guidelines they set out and as far as I know those tell people not to go kiss them. I don't know what exactly gets said though. Are they asking people not to go run up to them and just kiss them without asking, or are they going as far as to ask people not even to ask for a kiss? It's a pretty important nuance. Because frankly Dan's behavior is a bit contradictory here if you take the interpretation that they wouldn't want anyone to ever kiss them. He did consent. Granted, the reason why he agreed could be 'negative' e.g. because he feared the backlash of certain fans. But that's a big assumption. I think it's just as likely for example that he didn't really mind and was more than willing to let her give him a kiss on the cheek, after she asked him if it was ok. So his personal boundaries in this instance at least where different than the guidelines (if those state that asking for a kiss is not allowed either).
My main point is that there's just a whole spectrum of possible mindsets they could have here which does make this more of a grey area to me, and I just don't like it when people start bashing the girl while pretending at the same time to really understand Dan and Phil and how horrible this must have been for them. Nobody here is doing that but in the broader online fandom some people are a lot more crude and self-righteous. It bothers me for example that people who were complaining about how "Sandra" was being dragged by Dan in the ls now have no second thought about piling up on this girl.

Btw, i don't personally think they are that caring of their image to the point that they wouldn't dare say no to a kiss, but if they were I think that would reflect on them much more badly than politely saying no to the girl? That's how i would feel about it at least.
Their image certainly is a prime asset, but imo it shouldn't mean that they change their personal boundaries just to retain a perfect image in the eyes of all. If they choose to do that, they are choosing to protect their assets more than being genuine or minding the discomfort and then they should also be ready to accept the consequences of something like this happening.

[alittledizzy]

+1 to everything @liola said. It certainly is a more nuanced conversation, and a conversation that I think is good and healthy for fans to have. No one deserves bullying or death threats, obviously, but critical discussion of a fan's actions that might have negative consequences (in the precedent it sets or to Dan's comfort level as a person) is not bullying.

[lefthandedism]

Oh, look, it's Dan posting about breakfast food this time. I just woke up and now I'm hungry.

In other news, time to make sure all your suggestions are in for the next thread name!

[lesterchuu]

idk where else to post this (and this might be considered a shitpost) but ive been trying to doodle @ratlad horse ficlet from this morning and i found one flaw in that phil doesnt have a lamp anymore.
...
it could be that he just doesnt use it anymore so he just put it away or something (for the purpose of the doodle tho, ill just draw the silver lamp still)

Well it's probably next to "Dan's" bed now.

he's always giving his stuff to dan for some reason :-/ like his mirror, straighter, shoes... and now lamp!!!!!!

i mean i rewatched a clip of dans livestream the other day where he showed a bit of the moon room and noticed his bear lamp was on the left side of his bed now even tho before it used to be primarily on this right??? did he make room for the silver lamp? two lamps for one lad??

wow phils so kind to give light to dan at night cz he just knows how much he hates the dark eh

[dancy]

As far as I know, that email which says that VIP's shouldn't kiss D&P was only sent to those who were going to the Cardiff show. I haven't heard anything talking about it since then (and it was only briefly discussed on social media) and the email that I recently received doesn't mention it at all, thus she might not have known about this rule. I don't think D&P are doing a particularly good job of setting boundaries if not every VIP is informed about this issue. Of course she could've thought about her decision more and eventually come to the conclusion that it might make Dan uncomfortable but (maybe considering some celebrities do allow a kiss on the cheek) she decided to give it a shot, asked if he was okay with it and didn't get rejected. It may not even have been the first time either Dan or Phil let this happen during a M&G. They must've met at least 2500 people during this tour thus far and some people don't post their pictures for everyone to see. Personally I wouldn't kiss either of them on the cheek but I'm not gonna be upset with someone (who didn't force herself on Dan, nor seemingly broke an actual written rule for her M&G session) for doing something fairly innocent.

Looking at this from Dan's perspective, he might've just said yes in the spur of the moment and didn't want to disappoint her but I absolutely think he is capable of saying no and should do that when he wants to. Or rather, the trick is not to flat out reject someone but to give a different suggestion, which is something they've already done. Examples:

I'm not necessarily trying to defend or blame anyone in this case but I think both Dan and the fan could've handled this situation differently.

[lesterchuu]

ive already said my opinion about d+p boundaries stuff but i do think i wanna +1 to what @dancy said. offering a different suggestion instead of flat out saying no is something i use at work all the time, and i guess it shows that deppy are pretty good at it. id say the boys are more capable than what they seem, i mean, im guilty of projecting my own thoughts, insecurities and ideas to them sometimes but i just gotta keep correcting myself. im sure im not the only one.

i feel that its helpful when discussions like these happen in the fandom, so long as they are calm and logically sound, because it gives the people the chance to think about their actions and hopefully mature. (i still dont think its right to bully or disrespectfully police other people tho, nor do i think its right to enable people to be their worst) i know its quite difficult to do in places like tumblr or twitter where people are just yelling their feelings all the time........but, to the few people that do remain composed, man, give yourself a pat on the back.

[human]

I have to say, in regards to the fan kissing Dan on the cheek, I don’t really care. 1) They’re grown men and should be capable of saying no to anything they don’t want to do, if this girl got to kiss one on the cheek because she asked even if they didn’t want to do it then that’s kinda their problem and none of my business 2) I personally find it creepy; I grew up a huge fan of Nsync and BSB at (what looks to be) her age and if I’d kissed one on the cheek for a picture, my mother would have literally gone ape. I don’t think it’s appropriate behaviour, they’re strangers but that’s just my opinion so my immediate reaction to all of this was “ewwww”. I’m entitled to have a reaction. But I definitely don’t agree with giving the girl grief directly. To be fair, if I’d been in line and seen her do that I would have grimaced and looked displeased also (as I’ve done when I’ve seen the handholding pose done in front of me) sooooo. But I don’t think the picture is cute, I think it’s creepy.

I’m not going to defend Deppy over it though; they said yes so a kiss is what she got to do. Lucky her, say many lol. Some might just be jealous. But at least she asked, I think. But still creepy.

[autumnhearth]

I’ll admit I find it very odd that Dan agreed to let a fan kiss him on the cheek yet when he goes to hug any fan he literally looks like he wants to die. I don’t know enough about the story (or really care tbh) though to form an opinion on it but just seems a bit odd. I remember the no kissing them statement from tatinof too, and there was also a statement about them not signing bodies either. Eh, fans get up to some weird stuff. I think touching their faces is creepy enough.

Also, yay to Kath being there tonight. Where is his Dad?! Was he there too?

ugh, thank you! no offense really if anyone here has done that pose but i genuinely want to die when i see people's m&g photos where they're holding deppy's faces....very uncomfortable.

i also feel weird about the hand holding ones but that really seems to not be a popular opinion so

Same. Honestly with all these options I worry about germs.

As far as I know, that email which says that VIP's shouldn't kiss D&P was only sent to those who were going to the Cardiff show. I haven't heard anything talking about it since then (and it was only briefly discussed on social media) and the email that I recently received doesn't mention it at all, thus she might not have known about this rule. I don't think D&P are doing a particularly good job of setting boundaries if not every VIP is informed about this issue. Of course she could've thought about her decision more and eventually come to the conclusion that it might make Dan uncomfortable but (maybe considering some celebrities do allow a kiss on the cheek) she decided to give it a shot, asked if he was okay with it and didn't get rejected. It may not even have been the first time either Dan or Phil let this happen during a M&G. They must've met at least 2500 people during this tour thus far and some people don't post their pictures for everyone to see. Personally I wouldn't kiss either of them on the cheek but I'm not gonna be upset with someone (who didn't force herself on Dan, nor seemingly broke an actual written rule for her M&G session) for doing something fairly innocent.

Looking at this from Dan's perspective, he might've just said yes in the spur of the moment and didn't want to disappoint her but I absolutely think he is capable of saying no and should do that when he wants to. Or rather, the trick is not to flat out reject someone but to give a different suggestion, which is something they've already done. Examples:

I'm not necessarily trying to defend or blame anyone in this case but I think both Dan and the fan could've handled this situation differently.

Blowing kisses is a great alternative and her pics turned out great.

I’m curious if the guys will be flying straight to Amsterdam or if they’ll be stopping home today. I’m guessing home tonight, fly tomorrow.

[hello9217]

I’m curious if the guys will be flying straight to Amsterdam or if they’ll be stopping home today. I’m guessing home tonight, fly tomorrow.

Well their definitely flying somewhere based on Phil's insta story. It would make more since to me that it would be Amsterdam so they can get settled in.

[Grumpybisexual]

As a French person it's really funny to see y'all being creeped out by the idea of kissing a stranger
Where I'm from it's considered rude ~not to kiss someone when you meet them for the first time! Not that I enjoy doing it, but it's a cultural thing so I guess that's why the whole kissing situation didn't shock me initially.

I don't really have an opinion on whether it was appropriate or not tbh. The girl asked politely, Dan said yes, good for her! Yes, he looks slightly uncomfortable on the picture but when does he not?
It's such a tiny little thing that blew out of proportion imo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(edit: oh and I'm one of those people who asked for a hand holdy pic and it didn't even cross my mind that some people could find even that creepy? I guess everyone has a different view on physical contact and how much is too much.)

[autumnhearth]

I’m curious if the guys will be flying straight to Amsterdam or if they’ll be stopping home today. I’m guessing home tonight, fly tomorrow.

Well their definitely flying somewhere based on Phil's insta story. It would make more since to me that it would be Amsterdam so they can get settled in.

Yeah probably and have plenty of time to see the sights.

Damnit I still haven’t seen Infinity War yet.

[annetamiau]

As a French person it's really funny to see y'all being creeped out by the idea of kissing a stranger
Where I'm from it's considered rude ~not to kiss someone when you meet them for the first time! Not that I enjoy doing it, but it's a cultural thing so I guess that's why the whole kissing situation didn't shock me initially.

I don't really have an opinion on whether it was appropriate or not tbh. The girl asked politely, Dan said yes, good for her! Yes, he looks slightly uncomfortable on the picture but when does he not?
It's such a tiny little thing that blew out of proportion imo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(edit: oh and I'm one of those people who asked for a hand holdy pic and it didn't even cross my mind that some people could find even that creepy? I guess everyone has a different view on physical contact and how much is too much.)

I wasn't going to comment on the kiss situation but then I read your post and I just had to. I'm from Barcelona and here it's mandatory to kiss a person on both cheeks when you first meet them. Not doing it would be considered rude or at the very least confusing (in a "why isn't that person saying hi" kind of way). Only men shake hands with other men, women kiss on both cheeks (this is based on absurd gender roles, I know).

As funny as it seems, hugging a stranger really creeps me out (even those lame half hugs deppy give) and I could never hug a stranger, but kissing people on both cheeks is something I've done on a daily basis for many years, so I'm perfectly fine with it. (I do have to clarify that you mostly kiss the air next to the cheek of the other person, your lips don't really make contact with their skin, at least not often. It does depend on the person, though).

This is by far the weirdest post I've ever written.

[liola]

Here in Italy (especially in the south) it's also common to "kiss" both cheeks when you're meeting someone. I say kiss in quotemarks because it's not really kissing, mostly a touching-cheeks while doing a kiss sound, and even then it's something that I've started to not see as often as it used to. It always made me uncomfortable and again I'm from the south where it's the norm. It's still very much different from an actual kiss on the cheek, so I don't compare the two things at all.

I don't think anyone on here is bashing the girl, at least I would hope so. No one is saying what she did is awful, and again sure Dan could've said no. Again I have my own opinion on how easily he could've said so, and weird comparison but it happened to me to give my number/add someone on facebook even If i. Didnt want to because otherwise I would've been taken as rude. And that person wasn't part of a group that is paying my bills. That's what I mean when I mention some sort of power unbalance.

I'm sure it's a bigger "issue" foR us as fandom than for the boys, but I think it's an interesting topic. I also think the argument would've been different If Dan was the one kissing her cheek and not the opposite, but then again I don't think that would've happened in the first place.

Changing topic, do we think we might get some thing tonight? I would love a video, even though I gotta write so I shouldn't be distracted lol