Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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amberblogslife
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by amberblogslife » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:55 pm

What's in Dan's Box?
- dead plant
- loki the cactus [fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff-]
- a llama
@alittledizzy appreciation post coming through for putting up with Loki once again and entertaining me with this reaction once again <3

edit: this is the top of the page now, sorry
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by dancy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:09 pm

I see why creative jobs/hobbies can be difficult, particularly when dealing with creative slumps and feeling like you're obligated to do things and to execute them perfectly. I'm not a very creative person myself, so I definitely wouldn't want to be in Dan's shoes or in those of an artist or a writer (etc), for that matter. I understand the situation he's in (to a certain degree) and that's why I wouldn't say I'm irritated about it. However, just because I understand and somewhat saw it coming, doesn't mean I'm not slightly disappointed with him seemingly not having much planned (especially with his previous attempts to reassure people by repeatedly saying his channel was "more active than ever during the last tour").

I'm not starved for content in general right now since they definitely seem better prepared than during TATINOF, which I do appreciate. I'm satisfied with how DAPG, AP, Insta stories and the (future) liveshows are going but it's no secret I'm craving a proper DINOF video too. Maybe that's too much, though I'm not asking for a two-hour to-be-Oscar-nominated film. The last video on his channel is from over two months ago and while GTPWTW was a lovely video that obviously took quite a bit of effort to put together, it wasn't necessarily a very creative one, something that would've drained off his creative energy. The most recent solo Dan video is "Trying To Live My Truth" and that was uploaded in early March.

Dan already is notorious for uploading infrequently and the idea, or should I say reality, of the gaps between videos becoming even larger makes me antsy. I feel like I'm just waiting and waiting... and for what? An ISG? A more original but average video? Or maybe a really great one? Who knows what's to come! Not to mention that the longer Dan takes, the more expectations people will have and the more chaotic the response will likely be, which I doubt is something for him to look forward to. He's lost more subscribers than he's gained this month, so his absence is having some sort of negative effect and we'll see what and how the next videos on his channel will do.

I don't think "cutting him too much slack" is the right way to call it but it does seem like most of us try to look at this situation in an understanding way (because we know and love him), rather than saying he isn't doing a good job of maintaining his channel, which is how I imagine some people could also interpret this.

OK, I'll stop whining now, I'll get used to it.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by Katka » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:25 pm

While I totally agree that creative jobs are jobs too and need to be done as someone with a creative job, I don't like this reaccuring argument that Dan is "not doing his job". He's on a world tour right now, he appears on Phil's channel and, most importantly, they run the gaming channel well with a video almost every week. It's not like he's doing nothing. He's just put one of his projects on the back burner and I think that's okay given that it's not his only project. This isn't me cutting him slack he doesn't deserve or whatever, it's just that he is literally doing his job.

I would absolutely love it if Dan found his mojo again and put more effort into his main channel but he's not. And I think that's okay because it's not like he's swimming in his subsribers' money without giving them anything. I actually think it's a bit weird that this argument comes up all the time with Dan but not with, say, Jimmy0010, whose uploading schedule is extremely irregular too. It's probably because Youtube has made Dan rich and people feel like they gave him that money so they should get regular content from him but you can't just ignore the other projects he's involved in just because you personally would like more main channel content.

(Calling it the main channel is very weird to me because I feel like the gaming channel has long become their main channel and their seperate channels are side projects now. Which is totally okay of course, the gaming channel is great, but as someone who's been following them since long before the gaming channel happened, it's also really weird. :D)
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by annetamiau » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:43 pm

dancy wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:09 pm
I see why creative jobs/hobbies can be difficult, particularly when dealing with creative slumps and feeling like you're obligated to do things and to execute them perfectly. I'm not a very creative person myself, so I definitely wouldn't want to be in Dan's shoes or in those of an artist or a writer (etc), for that matter. I understand the situation he's in (to a certain degree) and that's why I wouldn't say I'm irritated about it. However, just because I understand and somewhat saw it coming, doesn't mean I'm not slightly disappointed with him seemingly not having much planned (especially with his previous attempts to reassure people by repeatedly saying his channel was "more active than ever during the last tour").

I'm not starved for content in general right now since they definitely seem better prepared than during TATINOF, which I do appreciate. I'm satisfied with how DAPG, AP, Insta stories and the (future) liveshows are going but it's no secret I'm craving a proper DINOF video too. Maybe that's too much, though I'm not asking for a two-hour to-be-Oscar-nominated film. The last video on his channel is from over two months ago and while GTPWTW was a lovely video that obviously took quite a bit of effort to put together, it wasn't necessarily a very creative one, something that would've drained off his creative energy. The most recent solo Dan video is "Trying To Live My Truth" and that was uploaded in early March.

Dan already is notorious for uploading infrequently and the idea, or should I say reality, of the gaps between videos becoming even larger makes me antsy. I feel like I'm just waiting and waiting... and for what? An ISG? A more original but average video? Or maybe a really great one? Who knows what's to come! Not to mention that the longer Dan takes, the more expectations people will have and the more chaotic the response will likely be, which I doubt is something for him to look forward to. He's lost more subscribers than he's gained this month, so his absence is having some sort of negative effect and we'll see what and how the next videos on his channel will do.

I don't think "cutting him too much slack" is the right way to call it but it does seem like most of us try to look at this situation in an understanding way (because we know and love him), rather than saying he isn't doing a good job of maintaining his channel, which is how I imagine some people could also interpret this.

OK, I'll stop whining now, I'll get used to it.
That's actually what I meant when I said 'we are cutting him too much slack'. I'm not a native speaker so it probably wasn't the best choice. It's just that, as soon as someone says something slightly negative (even with a ton of disclaimers) people get defensive.

And some of the responses actually confirm what I was saying (imo). I never said Dan was lazy or that we are entitled to a number of videos, quite the opposite. They are both self employed so they have complete freedom over their content, update the gaming channel regularly and are on tour. I said that in the first post. I only said that 3 videos in 6+ months is not the norm for full time youtubers, which I think is objectively true. (I don't even like Dan's videos so I shouldn't have said anything anyway, my original post was just waffling).

@Katka (just saw your post). Jimmy has a job (which I'm sure he has to attend consistently) and does youtube on the side, that's a completely different case.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by alittledizzy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:48 pm

Katka wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:25 pm
While I totally agree that creative jobs are jobs too and need to be done as someone with a creative job, I don't like this reaccuring argument that Dan is "not doing his job". He's on a world tour right now, he appears on Phil's channel and, most importantly, they run the gaming channel well with a video almost every week. It's not like he's doing nothing. He's just put one of his projects on the back burner and I think that's okay given that it's not his only project. This isn't me cutting him slack he doesn't deserve or whatever, it's just that he is literally doing his job.
You worded this very succinctly. I think this is a lot of why the 'he's not doing his job' doesn't resonate with me at all. The dinof channel is not the entirety of his job; it's valid for people to want more of that, but the lack of that doesn't equate to Dan not working/not doing his job. I'd say at this point that Dan himself definitely considers the job title 'youtuber' to include associated projects and the gaming channels, the merch design, the brand deals, etc - as most youtubers do.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by George » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:20 pm

Katka wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:25 pm
I would absolutely love it if Dan found his mojo again and put more effort into his main channel but he's not. And I think that's okay because it's not like he's swimming in his subsribers' money without giving them anything. I actually think it's a bit weird that this argument comes up all the time with Dan but not with, say, Jimmy0010, whose uploading schedule is extremely irregular too. It's probably because Youtube has made Dan rich and people feel like they gave him that money so they should get regular content from him but you can't just ignore the other projects he's involved in just because you personally would like more main channel content.
I think people just want to see Dan living his full potential. If he started doing more videos about topics like sexuality, therapy etc. he could gain a whole new audience. A more adult one. And that seemed to be what he used to wanted. But who knows what Dan wants these days, to be a double act with Phil or at least try to rebrand on his own? Or move on from Youtube all together. I guess we get some answers after the tour is over.

Right now his uploading schedule isn't really a good reference towards any future ambitions, not that he necessarily have to worry about that. He is more of a gaming youtuber these days, but does anyone even know that if they aren't following him that closely, idk.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by sparkle » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:29 pm

Right, as someone who constantly wants Dan to upload I want to add my thoughts.

Firstly, I unsubbed to Dan back in 2015 (ish) because I was sick of him not uploading and when he did, it was shit. Secondly, Dan now is my favourite he's ever been - its been over a YEAR since I can find a video of his I dislike. Thirdly, as much as I want Dan to upload every single week and to be swimming in videos, I far far prefer it this way. You can tell he's happier with this content, and while I do want more - I'd far rather it be this way then how it used to be.

Also please dont forget that Dan is involved with IRL and I wouldnt be surprised if that was their main source of income. Theres a lot we dont see. And I wouldnt be surprised if they shared their income - think about it Phil is dependable for uploads, the gaming channel is going nicely, they have IRL, they have joint ventures. Dan can probably afford to have a channel like this, and his content is genuinely better for it. I'm enjoying him being more authentic, I think he's in the middle of an identity crisis (when is he never) and thats reflected in how little he's uploading. But i'm glad he isnt forcing it anymore and I'm especially glad that he's not putting out shit videos for the sake of it. To me, his rebrand has been more about him taking his own control over the channel and it reflecting who he is rather than some bullshit - and thats how it felt to me when I unsubbed. I'm guessing it was probably a reflection of his depression, which he'd done a better job of hiding by that point anyway, but this is far better. Honestly.

The only thing I dislike about this is the amount of discourse around Dan videos. Ugh.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by Elemancy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:31 pm

coffeepenguin wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:35 pm
@Elemancy :clapping: :thankyou: ALL OF THIS. SO MUCH.

I don't know if I have already posted this, because the topic resurfaces from time to time, but every time I read somewhere about Dan an Phil being lazy or phandom cutting them "too much slack" I think about this post by Neil Gaiman http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/e ... s.html?m=1 where he explains, very clearly imo, how the artistic process works and to what things fans are entitled (spoiler: nothing) and why. I know some people like to think about our collective relationship with them as based on some kind of contract where we are dnp's bosses, but this is just not true. And thankfully so, because I'm still processing the image they have of us that I got from the Amsterdam II show and it's not something I particularly like (maybe I'll actually find the time to write down my thoughts about this, as it's something I'm still thinking about a lot, but first I need to find a new job and be a functioning human being again)

the liveshow was great btw, especially the last few minutes, I have zero negative thoughts about that one, will definitely rewatch :thumb:
Neil Gaiman is a major inspiration and voice of gentle guidance I look up to when it comes to my creative process and creative goals, so i love that you referenced that post in particular. It may feel as if we've entered a contractual agreement with the artists and creators whose work we enjoy and support, expecting more of the same in a timely and regular fashion, but though we're active participants as viewers and even as occasional contributors with artwork, comments, gifsets, memes etc. to complement recent videos as a show of support and audience engagement, we're not in turn owed their implied agreement to the detailed terms of our expectations, critiques or praise. Which sounds contrarian and defensive, but please know I'm not attacking anyone for expressing a difference of opinion, all perspectives have a say, it's just I feel very strongly about holding independent creators to the same bar of expectation as a nine to five weekly shift in a company with concretely defined projections and rules necessary for employees to adhere to in maintaining their employer's bottom line.

With a career like Dan and Phil's, one which appears to be based on their personal lives, with viewers interested mainly to have all those details updated and available at a glance on their various social media accounts, along with regular main channel videos, the 'bottom line' becomes difficult to define when it's really their own lives they're meant to define, especially when their own vision, boundaries and personal goals clashes with those of viewers. There's the usual expectation of adherence to ethical standards- of not manipulating or taking advantage of your audience; of not harming or threatening them, but in terms of personal expression, all the questions of how's and why's which goes with that, its largely subjective and ultimately up to them to explore in a way that is mindful of their limits, abilities and wellbeing. Viewers are in many ways just along for the ride, though it may feel at times as if more is due in exchange for the investment of our time and interest.

Again, I'm one of those who also would love to see more of their videos. For example I dearly miss Dan's liveshows, I miss hearing his detailed and enthusiastic appraisals of music and shows he loves and all the small thoughtful, amusing and casual commentary on various subjects sprinkled in between, i miss seeing the anecdotal videos with his personal touch of narration and humor he always pulls off so well. In many ways he's been a bright spot of inspiration and pleasant distraction from my own day to day questions and struggles, with Phil being no exception to that relief, but if he doesn't upload a main channel vid or if his liveshows are delayed he hasnt broken a contract with me to deliver these things regardless of my express interest in them.
But then , once again, that's my personal take on it. I don't speak for others and am not trying to nor am I trying to 'scold' anyone who has a different take. This is an opinion gently expressed without malice directly or indirectly meant to anyone.

In the same sense, I believe independent careers like this, so centered on the personal and the intimate in revealing an individual's thoughts, day to day life, and modes of personal expression -with all the struggles to maintain authenticity, identity, comfort and privacy which goes along with that- shouldn't be held on par with that of a production assembly line when the delivered 'product' is who you are.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by fieldoflovers » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:54 pm

sparkle wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:29 pm
Firstly, I unsubbed to Dan back in 2015 (ish) because I was sick of him not uploading and when he did, it was shit. Secondly, Dan now is my favourite he's ever been - its been over a YEAR since I can find a video of his I dislike. Thirdly, as much as I want Dan to upload every single week and to be swimming in videos, I far far prefer it this way. You can tell he's happier with this content, and while I do want more - I'd far rather it be this way then how it used to be.
I unsubbed around that time too, it was probably late 2015-early 2016 for me and I think the reason was disconnect. To me the number of uploads never really mattered that much, but I liked that he did liveshows and tweeted often(ish) and I really admired how in the know he was about his own audience. He got their humour and he played off of that but around that time with the tour and book, Dan's channel felt tired. I'll just use one video as an example, "How to Survive Exams"he uploaded this after a month and a half of the last one (which of the collab with Louise) and I disliked it and this may be my bad memory but I don't think it was well liked. To me that video was Dan's content at its worst, it was disingenuous, it felt inauthentic and really it felt like too many youtubers content that is 'rich adult trying to be #relatable'. That kind of content is easy to make in a bind and leads to more frequent uploads and more clicks (especially if you want views from a casual audience, or want to be on trending) but it also was one of the factors that led me to unsubscribe. I know we talk about Phil's persona a lot but "danisnotonfire" was just as much that though I think he concealed it quite well.

I much prefer his content now because you can tell that he isn't trying to be someone he's not or make content that is tried and tested and works on youtube but is instead talking and being more real and I can't imagine how hard that's been for him but I'm glad that's the trajectory of his channel. If that means I have to wait a few months between video but be treated with a video that is more honest and reflects his life currently, then I am okay with that. At least this time we have more gaming videos, ig stories and all that so I'm not too bothered by the lack of dinof content. tho btw sparkle i will be a little sad when he uploads and you won't request one daily!

Not to grudge up old topics but that's kind of why i hated that he deleted all of those old videos to me those were less persona heavy and more just him being him(even if he was a dumbass at the time) rip
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by sparkle » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:15 pm

fieldoflovers wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:54 pm

I unsubbed around that time too, it was probably late 2015-early 2016 for me and I think the reason was disconnect. To me the number of uploads never really mattered that much, but I liked that he did liveshows and tweeted often(ish) and I really admired how in the know he was about his own audience. He got their humour and he played off of that but around that time with the tour and book, Dan's channel felt tired. I'll just use one video as an example, "How to Survive Exams"he uploaded this after a month and a half of the last one (which of the collab with Louise) and I disliked it and this may be my bad memory but I don't think it was well liked. To me that video was Dan's content at its worst, it was disingenuous, it felt inauthentic and really it felt like too many youtubers content that is 'rich adult trying to be #relatable'. That kind of content is easy to make in a bind and leads to more frequent uploads and more clicks (especially if you want views from a casual audience, or want to be on trending) but it also was one of the factors that led me to unsubscribe. I know we talk about Phil's persona a lot but "danisnotonfire" was just as much that though I think he concealed it quite well.

I much prefer his content now because you can tell that he isn't trying to be someone he's not or make content that is tried and tested and works on youtube but is instead talking and being more real and I can't imagine how hard that's been for him but I'm glad that's the trajectory of his channel. If that means I have to wait a few months between video but be treated with a video that is more honest and reflects his life currently, then I am okay with that. At least this time we have more gaming videos, ig stories and all that so I'm not too bothered by the lack of dinof content. tho btw sparkle i will be a little sad when he uploads and you won't request one daily!

Not to grudge up old topics but that's kind of why i hated that he deleted all of those old videos to me those were less persona heavy and more just him being him(even if he was a dumbass at the time) rip
YES YES YES a million times yes.

That was exactly how I felt. I was pissed off too because at that time I was 20/21 and in a shitty living situation and I felt so weird about watching this rich adult man make videos aimed at people in school. It felt so fake, and I hated it because it wasn't content FOR me anymore, but I didnt feel like i'd outgrown him if that even makes sense? (and I guess is proven because I'm 23 and writing this). I felt like I could see right through it and I hated it, especially because younger Dan (like 18-20) felt so much more tangible to me? Like I was never shocked by him saying 'I have depression' because of how painfully, horribly obvious it is when you're looking at him from that period. Not saying that he should've been frank about it back then - but it helped him not be a caricature which is what he became during the tour and book. He built up this persona that was so forced - but isnt as immediately obvious as AmazingPhil because danisnotonfire was 'older' - for example Dan swears like a sailor - but that doesnt mean it was more real?

This now feels more real like you said. Its kinda cool to see this direction change. I want him to be making videos representing actual Daniel Howell and his life, rather than just what teenagers in school will like? Its why I think he's brilliant in the true sense of the word - as in incredibly clever and talented. I find him captivating and I want him to CONTINUE doing this - I never want him to go back. To me his rebrand and his videos now are less about having 7 different series and dropping everything - and more about authenticity and him being himself and getting back to where he used to be but in a healthier way? And i'm glad he admits his need for validation - its why I think he's pushing back his 'June video' if he's not ready for it he's going to panic and hold onto it until he's ready. It also makes me well more suspicious because this is exactly what happened with his depression video and I'm trying to quell my hopes but they are RISING.

Interestingly enough, I've never really got sick of Phil. And I think thats because I was always more aware of the dichotomy between Phil Lester and AmazingPhil.

And dont worry - when he uploads I give it about 4 - 5 weeks (depending on what we get in the interim obviously) before I'm back to my day requests :D I should set up a mailing list 'sparkle from idb annoying the shit out of you combined with a funny gif' :lol:
:sparkle: patiently waiting for Dans main channel to return from war :sparkle:
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by knq » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:46 pm

@sparkle Your post just made me realize it will be interesting to see if Dan’s perception of the audience and what content we ‘want’ changes based on the experiences he’s having right now. In the liveshow one of the things that struck me as very genuine was Dan’s surprise at the audience age range. “You’re all like 25 and struggling young adults. I don’t know where that came from. But hi.” (Hi, Dan. :wave: )

And I’m sure Dan has Google Analytics and other such services to tell him what the age range of the people who watch his content is, but I think Dan relies upon his impressions more than he does upon data. I remember being surprised at how many dinofs there are revolving around school and studying for a person who didn’t enjoy school and dropped out of Uni. If those were attempts to cater to an audience he didn’t understand or didn’t feel connected to, then it makes sense where that type of content came from.

I hope feeling more connected to his audience will make him more comfortable sharing whatever parts of his life he wants to. I have no doubt that Dan taking the first step to discuss struggling with depression is what prompted enough (VIP) fans to tell him something about their own struggles that he took notice. Authenticity inspires authenticity in others.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by alittledizzy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:50 pm

watsonian wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:46 pm
@sparkle Your post just made me realize it will be interesting to see if Dan’s perception of the audience and what content we ‘want’ changes based on the experiences he’s having right now. In the liveshow one of the things that struck me as very genuine was Dan’s surprise at the audience age range. “You’re all like 25 and struggling young adults. I don’t know where that came from. But hi.” (Hi, Dan. :wave: )

And I’m sure Dan has Google Analytics and other such services to tell him what the age range of the people who watch his content is, but I think Dan relies upon his impressions more than he does upon data. I remember being surprised at how many dinofs there are revolving around school and studying for a person who didn’t enjoy school and dropped out of Uni. If those were attempts to cater to an audience he didn’t understand or didn’t feel connected to, then it makes sense where that type of content came from.

I hope feeling more connected to his audience will make him more comfortable sharing whatever parts of his life he wants to. I have no doubt that Dan taking the first step to discuss struggling with depression is what prompted enough (VIP) fans to tell him something about their own struggles that he took notice. Authenticity inspires authenticity in others.
I feel like it's also worth pointing out that the 2016 uni video got 4.4 million views - which is fairly average for his standalone sketch videos, and upwards of a million views better than ISG for him at that time. So while it was highly unpopular within phandom, if Dan is viewing larger audience and factoring them into his impression (and he does, we know how he's prized those edgy bros that he needs to please) he actually wouldn't have gotten the idea that it's not content people wanted.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by ame » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:33 pm

(at times like these, i would really love a simple like button in this forum. its like i have nothing else to add but id like to show my appreciation for the post, ya feel me?)
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by knq » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:48 pm

alittledizzy wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:50 pm
watsonian wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:46 pm
@sparkle Your post just made me realize it will be interesting to see if Dan’s perception of the audience and what content we ‘want’ changes based on the experiences he’s having right now. In the liveshow one of the things that struck me as very genuine was Dan’s surprise at the audience age range. “You’re all like 25 and struggling young adults. I don’t know where that came from. But hi.” (Hi, Dan. :wave: )

And I’m sure Dan has Google Analytics and other such services to tell him what the age range of the people who watch his content is, but I think Dan relies upon his impressions more than he does upon data. I remember being surprised at how many dinofs there are revolving around school and studying for a person who didn’t enjoy school and dropped out of Uni. If those were attempts to cater to an audience he didn’t understand or didn’t feel connected to, then it makes sense where that type of content came from.

I hope feeling more connected to his audience will make him more comfortable sharing whatever parts of his life he wants to. I have no doubt that Dan taking the first step to discuss struggling with depression is what prompted enough (VIP) fans to tell him something about their own struggles that he took notice. Authenticity inspires authenticity in others.
I feel like it's also worth pointing out that the 2016 uni video got 4.4 million views - which is fairly average for his standalone sketch videos, and upwards of a million views better than ISG for him at that time. So while it was highly unpopular within phandom, if Dan is viewing larger audience and factoring them into his impression (and he does, we know how he's prized those edgy bros that he needs to please) he actually wouldn't have gotten the idea that it's not content people wanted.
I don't think he'd get that impression from meeting fans he perceives to be older than his expectations either. No one at a VIP is going to go up to Dan and tell him about the videos they didn't care for. What they might tell him is that his video on depression or on living his truth impacted them personally or that they've struggled in a similar manner. If that's how he got the impression that "we" are all struggling 25 year olds, I think there's a small but real chance he'll be more comfortable being authentic in the future.

Or maybe his comment wasn't that meaningful and he was just working his way up to a 'we're all dying' joke. ;) In general though, I think it's good that Dan's meeting people who care about his content. The community of YouTube creators he was once a part of is pretty much gone. He's described this generation of creators as "extroverted and functional" which is clearly something he doesn't relate to. If he has a sense of shared community with his fans because he perceives us to be closer to his age than he once did or even because he's (learning to) become less sexist and not devalue the feminine as much, that could make more authentic content easier for him to decide to share.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by Catallena » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:41 am

I'm wondering how Dan will feel when he sees the inevitable drop in subscribers when that trailer gets uploaded, on top of people who are already unsubbing due to inactivity. Dan might be living his truth or whatever, but he really is letting that channel die. :shrug: But I'll be nice and tell him the editing is good even though I really wonder what the fuck he does that makes it take this long.

D&P have already peaked in terms of YouTube career, their sub counts across all channels are at a standstill. A lack of new people, means a lack of views, a lack of income through that channel and eventually all channels under the D&P flag. Even if/when he starts uploading again there's little possibility he'll recover considering he isn't making the type of content that got him where he is anymore. And he isn't uploading enough content to allow his audience to grow with him. A big part of why the Dan and Phil brand did so well is because DINOF/AP/DAPG as a trinity kept sending new viewers to each other (and Dan was often the first thing people found), thus establishing a dedicated audience that got pretty consistently got fed content over three channels. Except during last tour, however that had people looking forward to buying that scrapbook of theirs when it was over. Not that I want them to sell a book again (i'm still a book anti) but this time around I really don't know what to expect from them when tour is over. Where will they go from there? I'm not in camp 'omg they're gonna separate let's panic!!' but looking at Dan's channel does make me feel things.

Like I keep thinking of how unmotivated and even disinterested Dan sounded yesterday while talking about videos. Not even about making videos right now, which would be completely understandable, but about the future as well. But that might just have been me idk. I just feel like I've heard the "I have so many ideas" thing for 6 years now, and at this point I'm not sure he really does. And it isn't like just his YouTube uploads are lacking, his social media game is pretty weak as well compared to other popular creators (so is Phil's tbh) because they never hop on any trend. I personally don't mind that because I don't feel like getting a million social accounts, but they're so behind on things that could attract new audiences or keep existing audiences interested while simultaneously neglecting their existing social media like Tumblr. And Tumblr is still huge for the phandom. At least we finally got Instagram stories. :thumb:

I really went off track there. Anyway, without Dan's channel being active and thriving the whole brand kinda falls flat on its ass. AP isn't doing great in views tbh, DAPG is doing okay but not stellar with their most popular videos STILL being Sims. And maybe that's fine for them. Maybe they'll actually retire between now and 2022. They have their IRL Digital merch empire (even though i can't imagine they make a whole lot of money from most of their other clients like who in 2018 cares about Chris or Dean without Jack??) and are probably sitting on piles of money thanks to ma boy Capita£ester.

tbh Dan has always been a very frustrating person for me to stan, but his content has really not been my thing for a while now. The last solo video of his that I can still watch and enjoy was the Bahamas one and that was somewhat of an outlier. I didn't enjoy his Honorary Big Brother phase either, just so we're clear. That exam video can die in a fire, it was awful. But even some recent videos that I find decent at first just get bad upon rewatch, which probably means I was more excited over new content than over what I was watching. And now, even though it's been this long I'm still not really dying for a new Dan video. I still like Dan, I'm just confused over what he wants. When he did that documentary for the BBC he talked about wanting to make a documentary himself because he was not satisfied with what the director told him to do. Which I thought was awfully overconfident but ok. But now he's just happy making silly videos with Phil and the occasional 'profound' ramble about something? Sure... :|

I sometimes think that Dan actually took the loss of the radio show pretty hard, harder than we think. He liked having that link with the BBC which gave him validation and a status as more than 'just a YouTuber' but it also gave him a regularity in his life, and I think that was good for him. In my 6 years of stanning I have always thought Dan worked better with a schedule. But Dan is also a control freak and bit of a know it all who likes being his own boss. He's already annoyed when the phandom holds him accountable for something... I will always think that he needs to get over himself as far as that goes, fight me.

Whoo! A good old Catallena rant where she just jumps from thought to thought and then vomits words all over the thread with no real purpose. It's 2016 all over again. Nostalgia~

Also a very late reply to my point about views:
alittledizzy wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:33 pm
dancy wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:25 pm
Yeah, I don't really get it when people seem to get angry at D&P in this whole Rize situation. Is it a shitty app? Yup. Is that D&P's fault? Nah. I can absolutely see why they partnered with Rize and I'm just hoping things will improve to make the app more accessible, functional and user-friendly.
Catallena wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:32 pm
In the meantime, I also have a fun project for the phandom. It's called; 'Stop Tanking Dan And Phil's Views By Uploading Half The Video Onto Social Media You Dumbasses'. Now I'll admit, I'm very guilty of retweeting clips of new videos myself. But I feel like so many people are doing it now that it is starting to affect their views. There's no reason for people to go back to the video to rewatch it or even watch it at all, if 10 people have already uploaded all the good bits onto the timeline. That's a really bad thing. And if a previous video hasn't reached a certain amount of views yet, D&P are more likely to let the video sit there for a bit until it does before upload another. That means less content for us. We're really shooting ourselves in the foot and affecting D&P's relevance and income with this shit, and it's time to stop. It doesn't benefit anyone except the people who do it because it's an easy way to get likes, retweets and followers.
Is this not something that has been happening for ages though? I mean, I haven't been in the phandom for a super long time yet but I can't really say that I see more video clips on my TL now than I did about 8 months ago. Though, I can see how Youtube compilation videos could kinda affect their views as those tend to be longer, get recommended and show more highlights than a single short clip on Twitter that goes around for maybe a day of two. However, I think the decrease in views is more due to other factors, like Youtube-related issues (algorithm, subscription boxes, notifications etc.) and lack of interest.
I think the point (or at least what I assumed the point was) is not that this is a new thing, but that it's something that would help their views now. I think a couple hundred thousand views matters more now - exactly because of the things you mentioned, sub box and notif issues and fucky algorithm - than it would have when they were getting an easy two mil per video. At a point it is the core fandom that's gonna make the difference for Dan and Phil, when casual audiences simply aren't getting exposed to their videos through no fault of their own.
Basically all of this. With the decreasing contribution of casual viewers, the fanbase has to come through for them by being more careful about what we share and how that can affect D&P. The 'losing interest' part of the crowd is especially dangerous, because they often still follow Phan related accounts but are no longer encouraged to go watch a video if the best bits are already right in front of them. That could contribute to loss of interest and drive them away. D&P basically got famous of GIFs on Tumblr, because they showed a little but not too much and encouraged people to watch the video. It's a good thing to keep in mind.
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(inventor of capita£ester, will kick people who use it to slander phil)

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by majitzu » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:09 am

Oh I got into deppy because of those Tumblr gifs back in 2015. There was a time where I couldn't wait to watch their videos as soon as they were out. Thanks god that phase has passed cause it was a bit stressful xD
I've been only interacting with their content in twitter and I haven't followed a new phandom account in more than a year so those twitter videos with the best bits... I don't see them. I still love my boys, nowadays I feel I enjoy Phil content a bit more. Dan's story times have always been my favourite and since Catallena said the last one was the Bahamas one.
I'm just writing this for the sake of writing something, I don't remember how to use the forum features anymore. Hey I watched the last ls, the first one I watched this year.
Phil wanting to paint Dan's nails and he refusing it was fun.
Idk what I'm saying anymore ... Bye (see y'all in another year I guess. I'm a mess )
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by majitzu » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:10 am

Hey where did my profile picture went?!
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alittledizzy
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by alittledizzy » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:41 am

majitzu wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:10 am
Hey where did my profile picture went?!
We had a system error a while back where everyone's userpics got removed, have you re-uploaded it since then?

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by majitzu » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:13 am

Uffff nope. I will later (maybe)
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by sugar » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:54 am

completely not on topic of the dinof conversation, but i've decided that i really want deppy to play hole.io on the gaming channel. i'm one of the people who's over them playing apps and google games but it seems perfect for them to play on the road. it's fun, ridiculous, and provides a plethora of opportunities for hole-related innuendos. they'd love it.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by Elemancy » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:54 am

I wonder if how tatinof symbolized a departure from old branding, if II in turn, going along with the themes Dan mentioned in their week in the life video, is a way of exploring the true nature of audience interaction, gauging how it coincides and clashes with their own ideals and expectations for their image and their channels and if this signals a further departure from, not exactly YouTube videos, but the confines of what YouTube itself restricts them to.

Say for example they might branch out with irl to expand their associated clientele of YouTubers, or if they might start their own management or production company offering liaison services to independent creators; if Dan might investigate further on expanding that idea about a documentary into something concrete as a dedicated web series; if Phil might similarly expand on his own personal projects, in terms of more time spent traveling or producing podcasts tailored to subjects he'd love to speak about in a way that maybe liveshows and AP videos dont allow him to- woolgathering ramble aside, (and current ramble continued) generally I wonder if YouTube alone doesn't offer the diversity and flexibility they need to explore whatever new ideas and projects they might like to undertake at this point in their lives and if they might not decide to take a certain loss of subscribers as an equitable tradeoff for being able to do more and be more than YouTube currently offers them the opportunity or freedom to be.
If they're not as focused on adhering to a method or image they might have long grown out of or if they'd like to try something different and not as oriented on YT alone, then maybe the next phase of their personal journey will involve a gradual evolution towards a more relaxed approach on videos as they focus instead on diversifying their talents elsewhere, in such a way that keeping up with the tidal pull of shifting opinions, public expectation and popular trends is no longer a point of stated concern.

I have no idea what that exactly looks like and how they might accomplish it, if that's even a plan at all. But this tour seems to have a bit more of an introspective/meta note to it and it'll be interesting to see if that might not carry over into how they approach their personal creative processes online in the future, with them both acknowledging the aspects of their videos audiences clearly prefer while also focusing on how to translate that according to the aspects of their own identities, interests and ventures they currently might like to explore in different ways than they've done in the past, with emphasis on a mindful compromise between what the audience wants and what they prefer.

God I took so long to write this... honestly, I dont know what's going to happen I dont even know what I want to happen except I wish them well in however they choose to advance their careers and define their lives going ahead. I just hope theyre able to find a healthy and comfortable balance which speaks to them, if they haven't already.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by kalli » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:00 am

I definitely feel as though Dan's story times are his best content. If he wants to give the people what they want, I, as a people, would like to put in my request for more of that sort of video. Surely he has some anecdotes he has never shared with us which would make good videos. It would also be nice if he made some of his live show rambles into youtube videos ideas, I'd especially love to see him come for Anthony Fantano's non-existent wig by doing an end of the year music review. I'm still waiting on a candle haul too.

Ultimately though, I don't blame Dan in the slightest for choosing to do whatever he wants with his career. If doing other things pays the bills and makes him happier, there's no sense in forcing the main channel :thumb:

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by Stakhanov » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:30 am

@Elemancy Nice post :tu: A lot of people sense that this tour signals a potential change in their future career. I don't think it's really possible to predict what they will eventually end up doing. I'm not sure Dan and or Phil even know yet. If past behavior is any guide, they don't seem to decide long beforehand what direction they want to go. Phil said in his video that he might as well have taken up the offer to work for a film studio just before he started youtube. Dan's youtube is basically a result of him being in a gap year too. Then the BBC came along and they have always had projects besides youtube.

What is clear to me though is that youtube is getting put on the back burner more and more. I think the joint liveshow was a nice demonstration of this. They've shipped themselves ( pun intended ;) ) with Rize basically mixing sponsoring with an important chunk of the 'content' we get (liveshows). It's a stark difference with how the liveshows started years back. It wasn't about having to stream weekly because you have sponsor deal back then... What also struck me was Dan getting a bit frustrated because a lot of people were asking about a new dinof vid. On a personal level, I can understand his reaction. They are working really hard and most of their life at the moment is flying, driving, perfoming.
But it also shows he's a bit disconnected from the broad audience. This tour is fine if you have the chance to go. Even then, it's one evening and the tour lasts for months. Instagram stories for me are no more than a nice extra but they don't replace the youtube content. A weekly D&P games vid is still a significant slowdown from regular schedule. So yes, the drought is still there for much of the audience that doesn't get to see their show.
Of course it's to be expected that all these projects have an impact on the youtube content, but it's also their choice to focus more and more outside the medium that did make them popular and enabled all the other projects they are doing, like this tour.

If they feel 'boxed in' on youtube, I support them doing other things. But this split will not last forever. By a lot of metrics, they've already become relatively less 'relevant' on youtube. Would they have a mass of fans paying for shows, books, meet and greets if it wasn't for youtube? I don't think so. Of the current fans, yea, a lot of them have bonded with them personally and will follow and support them if they switch careers. At least initially. Long term, I think it's essential they can keep and forge that personal connection with a new audience too. Vlogging is a really good medium to create that bond. I'm not sure they would necessarily fare that well in other branches. So I hope they don't ignore their channels to much longer.
Strangers passing in the street
By chance two separate glances meet
And I am you and what I see is me

And no one called us to the land
And no one knows the where's or why's
Something stirs and something tries
Starts to climb toward the light

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by liola » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:04 am

I have a difficult relationship with Dan's content. I like a lot of it but if I look at the complete picture, it has never been my cup of tea. To be honest, I think he shines way more when he's making videos with Phil because we see him in a more personal interaction and not just a persona heavy product. I know people might disagree but that's just my opinion. Phil was the same for a long time, except his video relax me more, and now that he's being more open I'm just enjoying him all the time. Dan still sees his channel as some thing that he has to put on a pedestal and that doesn't bode well with me. I don't like pretentious stuff.

But I dont consider them youtubers anymore. They're entrepreneurs. They have branched to so much stuff and I wouldn't be surprised if they entered the online world with a production company, not just for youtubers. It's my dream for Phil, I admit it. I like their creative stuff and wouldn't mind seeing more of it but it's not where the majority of their revenue come from.

That said I think his attitude towards videos right now isn't surprising and I don't think it's surprising. Tour is a big thing to worry about and it's their priority

Now I wanna mention the dream I had last night because it felt too real
i dreamed that Dan posted the trailer and it was filmed DITL style of a show, so a mix of tatinof documentary and ditl. I don't remember all of it, but I remember that it ended with a frame of a hotel room, the camera facing a big window with light coming in and in the frame was the lower part of a double bed where you could see two sets of legs under a sheet and the beginning of two shirtless chests, one of them with glasses laying on it, clearly deppy. It was just silent and then the frame faded to "Dan and Phil will see you in America"

It felt so real that when I woke up I checked all of their channels to see if it was actually posted, I'm still shooketh about it
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and how cute Phil Lester is.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 73: my furry bf

Post by sparkle » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:32 am

This post is your daily request from Sparkle (me, serial procrastinator, i'm aware of the irony) for a new dinof video

featuring a complimentary gif that will be my reaction when my request gets answered:

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:sparkle: patiently waiting for Dans main channel to return from war :sparkle:
if life ain't just a joke
then why are we laughing?
:sparkle:

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