Dan & Phil Part 75: @philsthiccbooty

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greenergrass
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obsessivelymoody wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:36 pm
whatdoiknow wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:24 pm
Templeofshame wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:57 pm I don't want to sidetrack the conversation, but I think it's really interesting when people talk about Dan and Phil "being demon." I assume that "demon" started out as a derogatory term for the "craziest" of shippers, but the way I'm used to it now, in my (demon) circles, is to mean someone who believes that Dan and Phil are in a committed romantic (and sexual) relationship. If Dan & Phil are being demon, does that mean they're playing to the demon crowd, or just saying/doing things that might be perceived as supporting the demon perspective? (Presumably, they know whether or not they're in a relationship, so they can't "be demon" in exactly the way that I can.) Or is my understanding of "demon" not necessarily how people use it?
Hmm, I don't know. My first experience with the 'demon' thing was in the 1d fandon, which I then saw spread to the d&p fandom (kind of like 'larries' spread to 'phannies' etc). I'm sure these kinds of specific words were used before 1d, but since my first experience seeing them was there, and demon was first used as a negative against 'larries' and then turned into more of a positive by 'larries' themselves, I assume that's kind of what happened with the 'phandom' too. But actually, side note kind of, did demon ever really start off as a negative in the 'phandom'? From what I saw, it looked like actually d&p shippers took on the more 'positive' interpretation of demon from other fandoms, and it was always kind of used in that way in the phandom specifically. Or am I completely wrong with that?

Anyways, my interpretation of people referring to dan and phil as demon would just be that they're acting kind of 'extra' (in a good way), like that they're acting in ways that are a bit out of the box and wild for them while also being things that phan shippers enjoy. I don't know if this actually made any sense lol so I'm interested to see others explain their thoughts in a more articulate way
To address the positive/negative connotations towards demons, I've seen multiple people refer to demons or phannies (or demon phannies) as "the worst part of the phandom who have no respect for Dan and Phil or any proper human decency" (I'm paraphrasing, but I'm not exaggerating at all because when I read/heard people say stuff like that I was taken aback because I didn't think it was actually seen as a bad thing). People have also said that demons are why outsiders hate the phandom so much, so yeah, it's definitely used negatively.

I think this kind of discussion is so interesting (maybe that's the language nerd in me), and I'm really curious to see how it progresses.
Yeah, I do know that definitely happens, but (correct me if I'm wrong), from what I saw the term 'demon' was adopted from other fandoms (1d, maybe others) so it would have already had both positive and negative connotations for the phandom.

So, I guess I shouldn't have used 'positive', and 'neutral' maybe would have been a better term. Like, as in, the word was adopted into the fandom, and people started using it in whatever way the saw fit, but that it didn't start out as strictly a negative thing, so the inherent negative connotation wasn't attached to the word from the beginning of its use in the fandom.
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watsonian wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:49 pm Dan and Phil are going to have matching leg gouge scars. A physical reminder of II they will keep forever. <3 (Ouch, though!)

@Templeofshame I haven't been in phandom long enough to understand where it originated from or how its usage has changed so I've never used it myself. I have the general sense that it is or was a bad thing, as anything associated with hell generally is. I've occasionally been tempted to use it when I go on a tangent about something shippy that I don't actually think is true but is fun to think about. But I haven't because I don't know if I'd be using it correctly.

If demon just means believing that Dan and Phil are in a relationship, I'm confused how people can "be" demon though. How do you be a belief? And especially how can you be more a belief in particular moments as opposed to others? I'm easily confused by language though!
Sorry for double-posting (unless someone posts while I'm writing this) but I just saw this after my last post and I don't know how to both edit and quote a post from a previous page on mobile.

My understanding of demon (again, this is taken from my time in the 1d fandom, so things could possibly be different here), is that demon refers to the 'level' of shipper you are. So, for example, it became kind of a joke in the 1d fandom to talk about if you were a 'chill' larrie, 'dark' larrie, 'demon' larrie, etc. (kind of more of a parody of the negative way the term started out by from 'antis'). So, demon doesn't mean believing d&p are in a relationship, but what 'level', so to speak, shipper you are.
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I'm surprised to see "demon" having such negative connotation. I guess it's because I'm a satanist (jk)(but also d&p crafts is their masterpiece don't @ me) or I don't really have any phandom social media accounts that I'm not very aware of what is generally said about things.

I'm actually fond of it because to me it's like the inner state of being a drunk uncle/aunt, speaking their mind, being loud and enthusiastic, losing all decorum and taking off your trousers or your bra in the middle of the party to have a laugh and speaking out loud what people around you keep hush hush.
Applied to Dan and Phil, I think demon is the surge of raw enthusiastic love and appreciation for their relationship we get sometimes, like when you want to strangle a kitten they're so cute and pure. (Please never strangle any animals).
And I think Dan and Phil can absolutely be demon because they feel that too, except in their case is more pride and love for each other, while also being their own biggest fans. Like the ig stories "look at us being us, how quirky/dorky/silly we are". Their infectious smiles at each other on stage, the boncasgate, etc. It's just too much for all of us so we drop Jeckyll and go full Hyde (aka demon).
Now going full-full demon if you will, demon is also the subtext and the winkingly (?) nature of our communication with them. The whole they know we know, we love them as a couple and best friends, they love themselves as a unit, they think they're the best unit that ever was (certified 100% organic true)and we love to scream at each other like possessed puppets about it because we can't handle the love.
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watsonian wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:49 pm
If demon just means believing that Dan and Phil are in a relationship, I'm confused how people can "be" demon though. How do you be a belief? And especially how can you be more a belief in particular moments as opposed to others? I'm easily confused by language though!
This is an interesting question; to me (and it's not like I've been around super-long or know anything, I have just sort of picked up how people in my corner of the phandom seem to talk), it might be about how outspoken I'm being, or how much the thing I'm saying requires the demon perspective to make sense. It can also be sort of like someone responding to a gifset of a favorite celeb with "I'm so gay"; like, I'm always a demon, but if I feel or say something that feels especially strong in that direction, I might say I'm being demon.

I like @phanfckingtastic's interpretation of what it means for D&P to be demon; I'm not sure if what people mean when they say the LA show had them being extra demon was just "extra" or that sense of pride and love for each other, or "extra" specifically with reference to phan/innuendo type things. (I associate "demon" in the phandom to specifically have to do with their relationship, rather than just being an extreme fan, so I personally wouldn't see it as demon for D&P to be extreme in ways that don't have to do with "phan" or potential romantic or sexual implications.)
Last edited by Templeofshame on Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I guess I should have stated in my reply that where I've seen demon/phannie being used negatively was in places that aren't "mainstream" parts of the phandom. Like I saw someone say it in a youtube video and I've stumbled upon blogs using it like that, and I think places like twitter and instagram use it differently than here or tumblr. Though reading back I definitely didn't read the original post I was replying to close enough as my observation was kind of pointless in that context whoops.

I'm interested to see if anyone knows exactly when the term was adopted into the phandom (I've only been around since late 2014 so it could have been before that or after it--my brain is a sieve at best), but I do remember it being widely used in 2015, and in a similar way to how it was being used in the 1d fandom at the same time (which leads me to believe that, as @whatdoiknow mentioned, the adoption of the term in phandom contexts had to do with the 1d fandom. I think there was also a large overlap of people being fans of both of them at the time too).
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phanfckingtastic wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:05 pm I'm surprised to see "demon" having such negative connotation. I guess it's because I'm a satanist (jk)(but also d&p crafts is their masterpiece don't @ me) or I don't really have any phandom social media accounts that I'm not very aware of what is generally said about things.

I'm actually fond of it because to me it's like the inner state of being a drunk uncle/aunt, speaking their mind, being loud and enthusiastic, losing all decorum and taking off your trousers or your bra in the middle of the party to have a laugh and speaking out loud what people around you keep hush hush.
Applied to Dan and Phil, I think demon is the surge of raw enthusiastic love and appreciation for their relationship we get sometimes, like when you want to strangle a kitten they're so cute and pure. (Please never strangle any animals).
And I think Dan and Phil can absolutely be demon because they feel that too, except in their case is more pride and love for each other, while also being their own biggest fans. Like the ig stories "look at us being us, how quirky/dorky/silly we are". Their infectious smiles at each other on stage, the boncasgate, etc. It's just too much for all of us so we drop Jeckyll and go full Hyde (aka demon).
Now going full-full demon if you will, demon is also the subtext and the winkingly (?) nature of our communication with them. The whole they know we know, we love them as a couple and best friends, they love themselves as a unit, they think they're the best unit that ever was (certified 100% organic true)and we love to scream at each other like possessed puppets about it because we can't handle the love.
I really love this whole response. First because like, I'm cracking up over your wording, but also because this is pretty similarly aligned to any answer I would personally give.
obsessivelymoody wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:18 pmI'm interested to see if anyone knows exactly when the term was adopted into the phandom (I've only been around since late 2014 so it could have been before that or after it--my brain is a sieve at best), but I do remember it being widely used in 2015, and in a similar way to how it was being used in the 1d fandom at the same time (which leads me to believe that, as @whatdoiknow mentioned, the adoption of the term in phandom contexts had to do with the 1d fandom. I think there was also a large overlap of people being fans of both of them at the time too).
I just did a twitter search for the specific phrase "demon phannie" and while allowing for some discrepancy in potentially now-deleted accounts, this tweet from September 2015 is the first time I saw it being used. From that tweet on it showed up every few days until the usage of it exploded.
(One of the earlier tweets using it was about Dr. Greg. Man, memories. Weird, weird memories.)
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oh, I absolutely think when applied to them it's in reference to them taking the implication of "phan" to another level at a specific moment, like Dan saying "stalk him until he loves you". It's hard to make a clean separation with them, I think often is both at the same time.
At this point the general consensus around me at least is they're a closeted couple, so what is phan anymore, but just a concept behind which they are free to reference in front of the general public stuff that is more risky - for being closer to reality- but that they're not going to directly talk about because they're very private people?
Demon everywhere, like the little demon on the shoulder telling them to push it a little further and polish that glass thinner and thinner each year, echoed by our own demon which we'll only reference to them irl ironically but will make us lose it (internally and with each other) every once in a while when we think we see their hands almost approach the door handle - oh, they were actually waving from inside. Hi, we see you boys, cool, looking good, keep it up. :ribena: :tu:
eternal dan and phil mood -> :happytears:
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Ah okay so based on @alittledizzy research and the timing on the usage of demon in phandom, I'm now even more inclined to believe it at least started off being used the same as it was in the 1d fandom for 'larries'. (which was as a kind of jokey take back of the negativity, and a way to joke about how 'extreme' of a shipper you were).

But obviously terms can evolve, and anyone can use whatever definition of the term they want. That's the fun of fandoms and fandom terms and in-jokes!
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a couple pages back i said dnp were being 'extra demon' but i mean it mostly as a joke, since it originally has been used by antis toward 'phannies' for believing that dnp are in a relationship/doing cute boyfriendy things. so when i say dnp are "being demon" i mean that they're being like,, obvious/less subtle about their relationship. i use it jokingly toward them so i just refer to anything that implies more than friendship as "demon".
(even though technically it isn't even demon in the literal sense to think dan and phil are actually together)
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ratlad wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:51 pm a couple pages back i said dnp were being 'extra demon' but i mean it mostly as a joke, since it originally has been used by antis toward 'phannies' for believing that dnp are in a relationship/doing cute boyfriendy things. so when i say dnp are "being demon" i mean that they're being like,, obvious/less subtle about their relationship. i use it jokingly toward them so i just refer to anything that implies more than friendship as "demon".
(even though technically it isn't even demon in the literal sense to think dan and phil are actually together)
I agree. I think "demon phannie" was originally used by big anti blogs and eventually people just started using it ironically. I don't see anyone using it as a derogatory term like it was in 2015/early 2016.
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From what I remember of when I was a casual fan around 2014, demon phannie was used by antis to talk about the fans who believed dnp are a couple, which at the time weren't as prominent. Like if you jokey kinda liked the idea and read/wrote fanfiction then it was all good shipper behaviour but if you believed it you were a demon bc it was disrespectful. At least, that's my understanding of it.

Now I fully believe the term has been taken back and turned into a positive, extra kinda fan to distinguish from casual viewers, because the way most of The phandom perceives derpy and preppy has shifted.

So when I think/say that dnp are being demon I mean doing/saying things that would align with shippers aka innuendos, flirty banter that doesn't step away from including each other and even acknowledging memes/rumours that originated in phandom and are about them as a couple
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and the beauty of Phil Lester.

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Just thought this Dan Twitter like was interesting.
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phanfckingtastic wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:05 pm I'm surprised to see "demon" having such negative connotation. I guess it's because I'm a satanist (jk)(but also d&p crafts is their masterpiece don't @ me) or I don't really have any phandom social media accounts that I'm not very aware of what is generally said about things.

I'm actually fond of it because to me it's like the inner state of being a drunk uncle/aunt, speaking their mind, being loud and enthusiastic, losing all decorum and taking off your trousers or your bra in the middle of the party to have a laugh and speaking out loud what people around you keep hush hush.
Applied to Dan and Phil, I think demon is the surge of raw enthusiastic love and appreciation for their relationship we get sometimes, like when you want to strangle a kitten they're so cute and pure. (Please never strangle any animals).
And I think Dan and Phil can absolutely be demon because they feel that too, except in their case is more pride and love for each other, while also being their own biggest fans. Like the ig stories "look at us being us, how quirky/dorky/silly we are". Their infectious smiles at each other on stage, the boncasgate, etc. It's just too much for all of us so we drop Jeckyll and go full Hyde (aka demon).
Now going full-full demon if you will, demon is also the subtext and the winkingly (?) nature of our communication with them. The whole they know we know, we love them as a couple and best friends, they love themselves as a unit, they think they're the best unit that ever was (certified 100% organic true)and we love to scream at each other like possessed puppets about it because we can't handle the love.
this is poetry, look at that!

but yeah I agree, my view of the word is slightly off because I was never in the 1D fandom but I think it's one of these 'reclaimed' words, if you know what I mean? Back when I had active social medias accounts for the phandom I saw it being used on a few fights of believers x antis with a definite bad meaning, after that I saw most people use it in a sarcastic sense until it grew as something people use to self describe themselves often with a good meaning (=excited behavior towards things about phan) while I think you might be able to find people (antis) who use the word back with the original meaning I think they're few and far between, specially since people don't see that as an insult anymore and end up laughing when people do try to use that as an insult.
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I'm not an mcr fan but this is stunning! :blackheart: I feel such love for the phandom sometimes (NEVER for the cannibals).
Gimme the merch, gimme the official ii movie, like... now. :6-year-old dan:
eternal dan and phil mood -> :happytears:
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:rofl: :rofl:

These kinds of things happen to me a lot, so I do know how he feels. It's a very weird experience to be well into your 20s and to have people assume you're under 18. He should just roll with it and hope it gets him discounts on things :lol:
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I'm 27 and still get asked for ID when buying alcohol (drinking age is 18 here). Only when I'm not wearing makeup though. Clearly it makes me look older :lol:

This tweet is cute too: And this :lol:
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Ablissa wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:17 pm I'm 27 and still get asked for ID when buying alcohol (drinking age is 18 here). Only when I'm not wearing makeup though. Clearly it makes me look older :lol:

This tweet is cute too: And this :lol:
I don't even know what he's trying to imply with that Phil reply but you know what I'm not even gonna question him Lmao you do you Dan

Also as a 26 years old who constantly get carded when buying cigarettes I relate. Except he is a whole foot taller than me so :shrug:
Last edited by liola on Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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oh whoops if forgot to submit xd
slightly OT but might interest all the demons xd
dc34 wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:07 pm So, I was at the show last night so I'm tell you my thoughts,
I really enjoyed it, it was so much fun :D . So, the special bit was just them refilming the rap and singing but with confetti this time. One of the members of deppy's crew kept saying this was for tv, which was weird I wonder where they are putting the show. Also, there wasn't any youtubers which was weird since they were in LA, I wonder why they weren't invited/didn't go. Its funny we were worried people would bring up demon moments at the show, but then deppy themselves went into demon mode a couple of times

This show has a message which the last one didn't have. Right in the beginning Dan says we can't just say whatever we want about Dan and Phil and expect there to be no consequences. They emphasize the last bit over and over again through out the entire show. Whatever we do as an audience does impact them, even if we don't think it does. Before the stimulation, Dan says that we can't treat them like Sim characters, they are real people with feelings. They also, kinda talk about persona, what we see on camera is them just an exaggerated version since they're trying to be entertaining. Dan also brought up people wanting him to be "soft" during the wholesome howell/ xrated lester, and people saying "we love character development" after the wholesome howell meme took off . It wasn't him, but he thought thats what people wanted him to be. I reread past threads btw, and this topic was brought up a lot and its people wanting to see the "real" them, but when its aspects of their personalities they don't like they chalk it up to persona. Yes he can be kind and gentle, but Dan said he is a sarcastic, cynical person and thats just who he is. They said that there needs to be a balance between giving the people what they want and not pushing them past their comfort level. I truly believe when they say they want to please us, but it shouldn't be at the expenses of their comfort, privacy, mental health, and overall happiness.
Thanks interesting to hear your read. I'm glad they are giving that message the day the show is being filmed, because apparently they don't really go into it at every show (they didn't do it in the last one you said?).

[Some thoughts about this / the interactive introverts show under the spoiler
It's an interesting message and I'm glad they are lifting at least a tip of the curtain, even though it just a tip of the tip and it all sounds very general. You can interpret most of what they say there in lots of different ways. What does it mean when they say we 'can't treat them as Sim characters' ? I don't think anybody is literally trying to click at them with a mouse pointer so obviously he means it more broadly. But one is left guessing what exact issues they puts under that umbrella as they don't really mention specific issues besides the 'wholesome howell' meme. Is it just about the fandom trying to pigeonhole them as soft, wholesome or x-rated? I doubt that. Dan only mentions the 'soft' brand and 'character progression' (a narrative that personally annoys me too) yet I think it's basically him trying to argue against the suffocating narrative that they are a romantic couple that are slowly opening up and will eventually 'out' themselves as a gay couple. At least, that's a narrative that is strongly present in large parts of the fandom so when he talks about a 'balance' between giving the people what they want as personna's and their 'real selves', what is it that 'the' people clamor for? A cute gay ship?
Of course, that is just my interpretation and you can objectively read all kinds of things in it. That's why I fear they haven't made the message specific enough to help much. People will imbue what they say and do with how they think about them already, and insert motivations and meaning in all of it that is consistent with the beliefs they already hold.
Which paradoxically only leads to more of a 'story' being imagined around them, because that's what a curious and concerned fandom will do.

I suppose Phil thinks similarly about it, but one is left to guess exactly where they might think differently. It's always Dan who brings these type of messages to the public :mrgreen:
Finding my own inarticulate prose
Weirding out strangers and laughing at those
Jaundiced and jaded, postured and posed
Not that we’re special it’s just that we’re
Closing in on a place where we might get to be
Living real people regularly
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Poor Dan, that is funny. How the heck does he look under 18? Amazing.
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Stakhanov wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:27 pm oh whoops if forgot to submit xd
slightly OT but might interest all the demons xd
dc34 wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:07 pm So, I was at the show last night so I'm tell you my thoughts,
I really enjoyed it, it was so much fun :D . So, the special bit was just them refilming the rap and singing but with confetti this time. One of the members of deppy's crew kept saying this was for tv, which was weird I wonder where they are putting the show. Also, there wasn't any youtubers which was weird since they were in LA, I wonder why they weren't invited/didn't go. Its funny we were worried people would bring up demon moments at the show, but then deppy themselves went into demon mode a couple of times

This show has a message which the last one didn't have. Right in the beginning Dan says we can't just say whatever we want about Dan and Phil and expect there to be no consequences. They emphasize the last bit over and over again through out the entire show. Whatever we do as an audience does impact them, even if we don't think it does. Before the stimulation, Dan says that we can't treat them like Sim characters, they are real people with feelings. They also, kinda talk about persona, what we see on camera is them just an exaggerated version since they're trying to be entertaining. Dan also brought up people wanting him to be "soft" during the wholesome howell/ xrated lester, and people saying "we love character development" after the wholesome howell meme took off . It wasn't him, but he thought thats what people wanted him to be. I reread past threads btw, and this topic was brought up a lot and its people wanting to see the "real" them, but when its aspects of their personalities they don't like they chalk it up to persona. Yes he can be kind and gentle, but Dan said he is a sarcastic, cynical person and thats just who he is. They said that there needs to be a balance between giving the people what they want and not pushing them past their comfort level. I truly believe when they say they want to please us, but it shouldn't be at the expenses of their comfort, privacy, mental health, and overall happiness.
Thanks interesting to hear your read. I'm glad they are giving that message the day the show is being filmed, because apparently they don't really go into it at every show (they didn't do it in the last one you said?).

[Some thoughts about this / the interactive introverts show under the spoiler
It's an interesting message and I'm glad they are lifting at least a tip of the curtain, even though it just a tip of the tip and it all sounds very general. You can interpret most of what they say there in lots of different ways. What does it mean when they say we 'can't treat them as Sim characters' ? I don't think anybody is literally trying to click at them with a mouse pointer so obviously he means it more broadly. But one is left guessing what exact issues they puts under that umbrella as they don't really mention specific issues besides the 'wholesome howell' meme. Is it just about the fandom trying to pigeonhole them as soft, wholesome or x-rated? I doubt that. Dan only mentions the 'soft' brand and 'character progression' (a narrative that personally annoys me too) yet I think it's basically him trying to argue against the suffocating narrative that they are a romantic couple that are slowly opening up and will eventually 'out' themselves as a gay couple. At least, that's a narrative that is strongly present in large parts of the fandom so when he talks about a 'balance' between giving the people what they want as personna's and their 'real selves', what is it that 'the' people clamor for? A cute gay ship?
Of course, that is just my interpretation and you can objectively read all kinds of things in it. That's why I fear they haven't made the message specific enough to help much. People will imbue what they say and do with how they think about them already, and insert motivations and meaning in all of it that is consistent with the beliefs they already hold.
Which paradoxically only leads to more of a 'story' being imagined around them, because that's what a curious and concerned fandom will do.

I suppose Phil thinks similarly about it, but one is left to guess exactly where they might think differently. It's always Dan who brings these type of messages to the public :mrgreen:
I believe that dc34 meant TATINOF didn't have a message like that, not that it differs between II shows. The script of the show doesn't change, and everything they described (fantastic post, btw, dc34!) is repeated in every II show. It's also very firmly both Dan and Phil delivering that message; Phil has examples similar to Dan's. Going more spoilery under the cut.
The narrative of the show is definitely interesting, but it's not some kind of new revelation. The segments of the show are woven around the following: getting to know the audience, discussing individual audience members vs mob mentality, exploring the dichotomy of Dan and Phil's personas vs personalities (with the underlined conclusion that their youtube presence is very much themselves, but themselves being entertaining) and then the connection between Dan and Phil. They have monologues to match with each game/interaction of the show that tie them in.

They give specific examples that do not involve their romantic relationship: people wanting Dan to be less depressing, and Phil not changing his hair because he thought the audience wouldn't want him to. The debate there is be yourself vs be what viewers want; Dan defended his right to make death jokes to cope, Phil did do his hair in the end. The moral, if you are trying to draw one there, seems to be that while they hear the vocal expression of their audience that in the end... they do exactly what they want to anyway. They hear us, but we do not control them because in the end their behavior reflects what they want.

Therefore to conclude that the people who think they are a couple is a "suffocating narrative" kind of falls flat. By your logic, following their message, they'd be vocally telling us they aren't together right now with the same regularity that Phil quiffs it up and Dan makes depressing jokes. And I'm sure you'll argue that they do, but - the majority of us aren't quite catching those signals you get from them.
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yet I think it's basically him trying to argue against the suffocating narrative that they are a romantic couple that are slowly opening up and will eventually 'out' themselves as a gay couple. At least, that's a narrative that is strongly present in large parts of the fandom so when he talks about a 'balance' between giving the people what they want as personna's and their 'real selves', what is it that 'the' people clamor for? A cute gay ship?
Yeah, they look and sound terribly suffocated, I agree. I mean, the lengths they go to, my god. All to perpetuate the myth of phan -10 years on!- and sell more shit while they still can to the delusional sheepdom. Must suck to be so fake all the time. I'm sure they can't wait to get some holiday time finally separate from each other once the tour is over, then move out and into their own places, Phil with his long term partner which I hear :shhh: was introduced to him via Jimmy0010, and fingers crossed Dan gives you a call, at last!

Sorry, got carried away in that beautiful story reality. I'm a very imaginative objectively realistic non-phannie, you see.

-

Anyway, if Dan's thing really happened that airport person needs to get their eyesight checked, wtf
eternal dan and phil mood -> :happytears:
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phanfckingtastic wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:03 pm
yet I think it's basically him trying to argue against the suffocating narrative that they are a romantic couple that are slowly opening up and will eventually 'out' themselves as a gay couple. At least, that's a narrative that is strongly present in large parts of the fandom so when he talks about a 'balance' between giving the people what they want as personna's and their 'real selves', what is it that 'the' people clamor for? A cute gay ship?
Yeah, they look and sound terribly suffocated, I agree. I mean, the lengths they go to, my god. All to perpetuate the myth of phan -10 years on!- and sell more shit while they still can to the delusional sheepdom. Must suck to be so fake all the time. I'm sure they can't wait to get some holiday time finally separate from each other once the tour is over, then move out and into their own places, Phil with his long term partner which I hear :shhh: was introduced to him via Jimmy0010, and fingers crossed Dan gives you a call, at last!

Sorry, got carried away in that beautiful story reality. I'm a very imaginative objectively realistic non-phannie, you see.

-

Anyway, if Dan's thing really happened that airport person needs to get their eyesight checked, wtf
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alittledizzy wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:43 pm
Stakhanov wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:27 pm oh whoops if forgot to submit xd
slightly OT but might interest all the demons xd
dc34 wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:07 pm So, I was at the show last night so I'm tell you my thoughts,
I really enjoyed it, it was so much fun :D . So, the special bit was just them refilming the rap and singing but with confetti this time. One of the members of deppy's crew kept saying this was for tv, which was weird I wonder where they are putting the show. Also, there wasn't any youtubers which was weird since they were in LA, I wonder why they weren't invited/didn't go. Its funny we were worried people would bring up demon moments at the show, but then deppy themselves went into demon mode a couple of times

This show has a message which the last one didn't have. Right in the beginning Dan says we can't just say whatever we want about Dan and Phil and expect there to be no consequences. They emphasize the last bit over and over again through out the entire show. Whatever we do as an audience does impact them, even if we don't think it does. Before the stimulation, Dan says that we can't treat them like Sim characters, they are real people with feelings. They also, kinda talk about persona, what we see on camera is them just an exaggerated version since they're trying to be entertaining. Dan also brought up people wanting him to be "soft" during the wholesome howell/ xrated lester, and people saying "we love character development" after the wholesome howell meme took off . It wasn't him, but he thought thats what people wanted him to be. I reread past threads btw, and this topic was brought up a lot and its people wanting to see the "real" them, but when its aspects of their personalities they don't like they chalk it up to persona. Yes he can be kind and gentle, but Dan said he is a sarcastic, cynical person and thats just who he is. They said that there needs to be a balance between giving the people what they want and not pushing them past their comfort level. I truly believe when they say they want to please us, but it shouldn't be at the expenses of their comfort, privacy, mental health, and overall happiness.
Thanks interesting to hear your read. I'm glad they are giving that message the day the show is being filmed, because apparently they don't really go into it at every show (they didn't do it in the last one you said?).

[Some thoughts about this / the interactive introverts show under the spoiler
It's an interesting message and I'm glad they are lifting at least a tip of the curtain, even though it just a tip of the tip and it all sounds very general. You can interpret most of what they say there in lots of different ways. What does it mean when they say we 'can't treat them as Sim characters' ? I don't think anybody is literally trying to click at them with a mouse pointer so obviously he means it more broadly. But one is left guessing what exact issues they puts under that umbrella as they don't really mention specific issues besides the 'wholesome howell' meme. Is it just about the fandom trying to pigeonhole them as soft, wholesome or x-rated? I doubt that. Dan only mentions the 'soft' brand and 'character progression' (a narrative that personally annoys me too) yet I think it's basically him trying to argue against the suffocating narrative that they are a romantic couple that are slowly opening up and will eventually 'out' themselves as a gay couple. At least, that's a narrative that is strongly present in large parts of the fandom so when he talks about a 'balance' between giving the people what they want as personna's and their 'real selves', what is it that 'the' people clamor for? A cute gay ship?
Of course, that is just my interpretation and you can objectively read all kinds of things in it. That's why I fear they haven't made the message specific enough to help much. People will imbue what they say and do with how they think about them already, and insert motivations and meaning in all of it that is consistent with the beliefs they already hold.
Which paradoxically only leads to more of a 'story' being imagined around them, because that's what a curious and concerned fandom will do.

I suppose Phil thinks similarly about it, but one is left to guess exactly where they might think differently. It's always Dan who brings these type of messages to the public :mrgreen:
I believe that dc34 meant TATINOF didn't have a message like that, not that it differs between II shows. The script of the show doesn't change, and everything they described (fantastic post, btw, dc34!) is repeated in every II show. It's also very firmly both Dan and Phil delivering that message; Phil has examples similar to Dan's. Going more spoilery under the cut.
The narrative of the show is definitely interesting, but it's not some kind of new revelation. The segments of the show are woven around the following: getting to know the audience, discussing individual audience members vs mob mentality, exploring the dichotomy of Dan and Phil's personas vs personalities (with the underlined conclusion that their youtube presence is very much themselves, but themselves being entertaining) and then the connection between Dan and Phil. They have monologues to match with each game/interaction of the show that tie them in.

They give specific examples that do not involve their romantic relationship: people wanting Dan to be less depressing, and Phil not changing his hair because he thought the audience wouldn't want him to. The debate there is be yourself vs be what viewers want; Dan defended his right to make death jokes to cope, Phil did do his hair in the end. The moral, if you are trying to draw one there, seems to be that while they hear the vocal expression of their audience that in the end... they do exactly what they want to anyway. They hear us, but we do not control them because in the end their behavior reflects what they want.

Therefore to conclude that the people who think they are a couple is a "suffocating narrative" kind of falls flat. By your logic, following their message, they'd be vocally telling us they aren't together right now with the same regularity that Phil quiffs it up and Dan makes depressing jokes. And I'm sure you'll argue that they do, but - the majority of us aren't quite catching those signals you get from them.
Honestly I don’t know if I’m going to be writing a show review, but the things @dc34 mentioned are what’s been sticking with me and what I started writing about the day after my show. Here have some brief notes:
Theme of self-awareness
Love for their audience, wanting to entertain and connect with us, but wanting to be seen as real people by us, not as fictional characters or Sims. Holding up a mirror and shining a light on mob mentality, exploring the hive mind, knowing that we are also individuals that think differently, but that they can’t sit down for 8 hours to chat with us one on one. So there is an awareness that they also lump us together and don’t truly know us or see the quieter calmer ones amongst us because the cheering for Satan drowns us out. Fizzy milk people (those that keep cheering for the less safe answers) may be the minority, but they are also the loudest.
Nice demon discussion too. I’m not sure if Dan and Phil themselves can be or do/say anything demon though. Spoiler:
And the stalking Phil option (though not always with Phil’s name, but it’s implied) has been in many shows and I think he always chooses it
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citizen_erased wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:15 pm :rofl: :rofl:

These kinds of things happen to me a lot, so I do know how he feels. It's a very weird experience to be well into your 20s and to have people assume you're under 18. He should just roll with it and hope it gets him discounts on things :lol:
I love this so much. I wrote in my m&g experience (on tumblr) about how dan will always be 2009 dan to me. Like he is just so boyish and when I met him irl he felt that way even more so to me. Whereas Phil, though he lets his inner child out a lot in videos/online persona, he was very much a Grown Man.
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alien wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:30 am
I love this so much. I wrote in my m&g experience (on tumblr) about how dan will always be 2009 dan to me. Like he is just so boyish and when I met him irl he felt that way even more so to me. Whereas Phil, though he lets his inner child out a lot in videos/online persona, he was very much a Grown Man.
Care to share your m&g experience here? (Either here or in the side threads.)

I love your characterization: it sounds perfect to me, but I have not met them in person. I have a soft spot for 2009 Dan except for the problematic stuff he (and Phil) hadn't yet grown out of occasionally saying.
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