Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by liola » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:19 am

First of all, absolutely agreeing to every point @idk made. Like, all of it gets a giant thumb up, particularly the whole thing about Phil making a conscious choice to not upload.

About that video and the more general discussion, I think a common misconception is first to confuse relevancy with success, and further down talk about someone being relevant in a general way. YouTube isn't made only or vloggers, and even in the vloggers category there's a lot of different people that fix different boxes. Dan and Phil have been able to maintain a high number of views and affectionate audience for almost 10 years, the respect of their peers and an obvious respect from the YouTube bigs as well. That's no small thing.

They were some of the first people to access the Partner program, they still are in the favourite advertiser line-up. Hell it was just last year that Dan's status as an influential YouTuber made him work with actual Buckingham Palace.

Furthermore, people seem to forget they haven't relied on just YouTube since basically the start of their career as professional youtubers. They branched out early on with the radio, then the book and tour, the merch company, the documentary.. YouTube was never their only source of income, it probably barely even was their main one besides the first good years.

If they felt like they wanted or needed to put more effort in their channels, they would. I think they've talked about it already, but to me the line is always the same: they still like it, they don't really see it as a job only, and I think that's why they don't care about attracting casual viewers. They know their target and know their strengths - that's the best a business can do.
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and how cute Phil Lester is.



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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by opendoor » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:52 pm

I have to say I miss the "Big" moments-trending on twitter/tumblr, the phandom voting on awards like the BONCAS, and memes like "Don't cry, craft" which break the internet. I find that stuff fun, I like feeling involved in a big, loud community. And I think that's the stuff that makes the younger demographic notice them and want to join in. I feel like the BBC stuff gave them some exposure/hype too. I think any of that stuff would help them generate new fans.

Also, does anybody else not like their gaming endscreens? I mean, they're not awful, but I find them a bit...idk boring, messy? They always just kinda ramble over the top of each other and they've been the same format forever. I was thinking about Jacksfilms- I don't like him as much as a youtuber, but I'm likely to watch more of his videos in a row because he ends the vids with a funny clip from the last video, and then I click it and down the rabbit-hole we go.
I miss Dan Howell's stupid face.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by lefthandedism » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:54 pm

Summer is over, autumn is here, and we're on the cusp of the best three months of the year! So much to look forward to, especially in the phandom, and I'm loving everyone's retrospectives and prognostications!
:pumpkin: :skeleton: :whiskers: :dapg: :epictree: :dogue: :foreverhome: :2022: :shrug: <3

Another thing we're on the cusp of is a new thread! Loads of good name suggestions have been made--head over and make sure yours is included before the next poll! :tu:
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by LurkingTrash » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:04 pm

My point of view is that Dan and Phil are very smart with their business, just from how controlled they used to be with audience interaction and everything they said/did shows us how in depth they tend to plan things. My bet is on everything being a conscious decision, even the not uploading for being busy, even if being busy or wanting a break is the only motive they know very well if they can get away with it even if their subscribers count takes a hit.
I doubt people like them wouldn't worry about youtube suddenly making no money because of various reasons and plan so that they can have various sources of income despite that. Money worries come to everyone (unless you're a kardashian or filthy rich) if you're used to a certain lifestyle a few millions wouldn't cut it as something you could use to 'live comfortably' if you stopped making new money.
My point being, they are comfortable doing what they want to do with their channels because they have other things to rely on but I doubt any of these decisions isn't thought out, like, for example, not posting due to overthinking and procrastination is, at the end of the day, an informed choice, because I doubt that if the worry about how much this might affect them was big enough that they wouldn't get a move on and produce something that they might not be as happy with but that might get the job done of appeasing the audience.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by autumnhearth » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:26 pm

Really enjoying all of your insights and perspectives of Dan and Phil’s careers. Some neat little things I didn’t realize but I definitely see as true, like not trying to be trending. I wish I had something to add but I really don’t. So I’ll add this instead:
Why are they both so adorable about a pair of socks sticking out of a suitcase? They both have to make them flop around. Also I’ve never noticed that suitcase before. Sparkly light blue, very Phil. They must be in Hong Kong now.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by sonicgreen » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:15 pm

Don’t have anything to add on the career direction discussion though I loVE IT! @idk said everything I have been trying to put into words myself.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by flurry » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:28 pm

In the midst of this discussion about their popularity and career, I have to say I was truly shocked at the long queues for their merchandise. Given the steep price of their merch, more than half the audience were buying multiple shirts etc. Wonder if this shows how well their business is going?

I also think it's interesting that at the show I went to, there was absolutely no one in cat whiskers and majority of the audience was at least beyond the tween or early teen age. Wonder what this says about their loyal viewers too and whether they are getting new ones?

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by Amiaw » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:12 pm

flurry wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:28 pm
I also think it's interesting that at the show I went to, there was absolutely no one in cat whiskers and majority of the audience was at least beyond the tween or early teen age. Wonder what this says about their loyal viewers too and whether they are getting new ones?
I commented on that after my show too - I didn't notice any cat whiskers and the crowd was more diverse than I expected it to be. I don't know if that is the norm but Dan did say that he's just started to realize some of his audience is older than he thought so maybe there is something to the phandom getting older

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by dancy » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:04 pm

Ah, an interesting discussion! I'm not a fan of the word "irrelevant" but you can't deny that their popularity has decreased, the views are lower and they're losing subscribers. I do however agree with most of what has been said thus far in regards to them still having a lot of success but I suppose my actual outlook on the future is perhaps not as positive. Yeah, they don't seem to put much effort into attracting new viewers or keeping their casual viewers interested, possibly because they like having a smaller, more intimate audience. Do I personally think it's smart to rely on an audience of people whose interests can change and whose loyalty can waver? Eh. Nothing wrong with following a trend/playing a popular game once in a while in hopes of gaining new subscribers who could turn into loyal ones. But hey, if that isn't their thing, I guess it depends on how well D&P will do in making sure their core audience stays loyal rather than taking it for granted.

For many (not for all), the tour has been a lovely experience due to the Instagram stories, seeing D&P on stage, getting weekly gaming videos and liveshows (these past two months, that is) and general tour content in the form of spoilers and M&G pictures etc. What will happen after all this though? They'll definitely take a well-deserved break but I'm afraid it's going to be a bit hard (for me at least, knowing I don't adapt well to change) to adjust to the no-tour life. In terms of content, there probably won't be that many liveshows and Instagram stories anymore and I'm unsure as to what will happen to their main channels but I doubt they will upload as frequently as they did before they announced the tour. Sure, there's the II movie and Spooky Week and PINOF and whatnot this year but what about the days inbetween those events and will there be anything fresh and new? I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by random » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:01 pm

I find this conversation to be very interesting as well! I didn't realize that Dan and Phil were actively losing subscribers. Dan's lost 8k subs in the past month, and Phil has lost around 5K. What I found more surprising was that danandphilgames lost 1.2K subscribers in the last 30 days. While there were some days with a net gain, they lose about 40 subs a day on the gaming channel. This is super interesting, since deppy uploads pretty often to danandphilgames in comparison to their main channel.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by alittledizzy » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:34 pm

kavat wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:02 am
I agree with the thought that they're not really trying to grow their audience right now. If they wanted that they would do more collabs, upload more main channel videos, try the newest hot YouTube trend/game or whatever, but instead they are almost excluding new/occasional viewers by referencing injokes you would only know if you're been around for a while (the ditty/ussy thing, Dan vs Phil etc), uploading rarely (right now because of tour but still) and putting vlogworthy content on IG story instead.

Echo Gilette has talked about curating an audience a few times (in the ICG podcast with Hank Green and in a video with Ash Hardell) and I think it's a little bit what's happening here. She's talked about how she would say something slightly political or mentioning the lgbtq community to "weed out" the people she doesnt want to watch her content anyway. I think that Dan and Phil are in such a stable place now, professional and personal, that they can afford to have a dedicated but slightly smaller audience. I think they would rather have 1 million fans that cares about them and form a community than 10 million casual viewers. In fact, being on the trending page would provably be actively bad for them, imagine that comment section *shudders*.

Bottom line, I don't think they worry too much about losing subscribers, because they probably wasn't the right subscribers anyway. Or they found other interests which is totally okay and natural, especially in your teens.

That was way too long before my first coffee of the day :daddy:
I've been low on time, which frustrates me because this conversation is fascinating. This post really stood out to me though, and I absolutely see this as accurate to 2018 Dan and Phil. I think they're more aware of their financial situation than any of us, and I think they must realize that the money comes from the core audience and so the casuals that they're bleeding are negligible at best and not worth the desperate shuffle some youtubers are undergoing in order to maintain a status symbol subscriber count. I think Dan and Phil, as people, have decided they'd rather continue at their own pace making content they want than turn into (plucking an example from my subscriber list that stands out) Lilly Singh, whose vlogs have taken a hard shift into Oh God What Can I Make That People Will Click Please Click This Video I'll Do Anything territory.

There are youtubers like Shane Dawson who managed to turn it around in a less outwardly desperate way, but uh... how many of those are there, really? Just Shane. I think most people of Dan and Phil's era are accepting the slightly bruised ego just fine as they sit upon their thrones made of good financial investments, brand deals, name recognition, and loyal fanbases willing to buy merch and show tickets.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by LurkingTrash » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:14 am

This discussion left me thinking about the phandom too...
The phandom has a lot of bad rep, both external and internal and I agree with a lot of the critics but I think we have some good parts that don't stand as out as the bad! I wanted to point the two that most mean things for me:

When I first started being part of this fandom I was on tumblr and I felt so welcomed, a bunch of big and small accounts took the time to talk to me, and had all the patience for the infinite questions I had when starting, and then I found idb and felt even more like part of a family, I remember posting opinions people disagreed with and on the pm they would always make sure to point out that they might be disagreeing but they were not fighting me, nor hated me and encouraged me to keep posting. When I had a twitter to interact with you all everyone was so nice too (god I miss those days, wish I hadn't deleted twitter), I always felt like I was between family (common theme with the only other fandom I stayed for as long as here: supernatural, that also feels like a family). I think a fandom that acts like that also helps the celebrity because it keeps people together and coming back even if their interest wavers.

Another point that I love is how (almost everyone that I've seen) are quick to stand for what they feel like it's right when their faves fuck up. We hold deppy accountable and ask for apologies and changes of behavior, something that I truly believe deppy are grateful for, even if they might get annoyed at times, can't imagine having a brainless fandom that stands by any shit their fave says or do, it must be discouraging (or ego inflating in some cases coughjakepaulcough).

So yeah, while it's easy for the bad to stand out I just wanted to reflect on why I think we can be great too. Of course with a big fandom there's always a bit of everything and I like to remind myself of these points when I see the bad things that go on.
No fandom is perfect, and when you're in said fandom the bad can be even louder than when you're an outsider, so fixating only on the bad while comparing it to others good can be misleading and that is another good thing to remember.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by opendoor » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:25 am

dancy wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:04 pm
Yeah, they don't seem to put much effort into attracting new viewers or keeping their casual viewers interested, possibly because they like having a smaller, more intimate audience. Do I personally think it's smart to rely on an audience of people whose interests can change and whose loyalty can waver? Eh. Nothing wrong with following a trend/playing a popular game once in a while in hopes of gaining new subscribers who could turn into loyal ones.
Yeah, this is my concern- people don't stay in fandoms forever. Not attracting new viewers is a good way to make your audience dwindle.

I was wondering if the fact they're frequently uploading instagram stories has impacted their youtube views as people are getting their deppy fix/ an insight into their lives there & so don't feel as desperate to watch/rewatch the videos.
I miss Dan Howell's stupid face.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by kavat » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:45 am

opendoor wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:25 am
I was wondering if the fact they're frequently uploading instagram stories has impacted their youtube views as people are getting their deppy fix/ an insight into their lives there & so don't feel as desperate to watch/rewatch the videos.
Interesting. For me it's a complement, not a replacement. The Insta stories helps too keep them top of mind all the time. The first thing I do every morning is to open up Instagram to see if they've posted. I still rewatch the videos the same amount, if not more because something in a story will remind me of a video that I'll rewatch. I think a lot of people left completely during Tatinof because they didn't feel engaged any more when the uploads were sparse. Instead all we got was some sporadic instaposts and a ugly photo book at the end, when a lot of people had already lost interest. So I think all in all this is just positive for them.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by lesterchuu » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:00 am

re:dans recent insta story

first and foremost, he sounded really calm and soothing in that story - now that thats out of the way, its nice to see them address this topic in a format where we can actually see their faces. sure, its not "in person" but its closer to that than a composed tweet. i feel like with the last time where phil tweeted about the manila thing still leaving a bitter after taste within the fandom, seeing dan "talk" about it is kinda refreshing and i wonder if its them going "hey, we listened to your feedback". i know its not really a "tour announcement" but more of an "update", but in terms of the tone and the way it was delivered - this story took into consideration the severity of the situation (hurricane) appropriately. and idk if its because theres lives that are at risk rather than an unfortunate inconvenience (ie. people refunding their show or getting reassigned seats, booking another day at a hotel, etc.).

anyways, this is my sixth sense tingling that lurker dan is amongst us, jk. its just interesting to me.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by LtrllySusan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:09 am

I'm at work and can't listen, what did he say?

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by knq » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:03 am

I’m always a tad taken aback—in a good way—when Dan speaks with sincerity. it doesn’t seem to have ever been his comfort zone, but it’s generally what something like a natural disaster calls for, and while he could have chosen to let folks (correctly) assume tour plans hadn’t changed, I’m glad he posted stories to reassure those who were wondering.

@LtrllySusan they’re in Hong Kong, they just filmed a video, they got lucky in regards to mangkhut typhoon and tour plans are proceeding as normal. Spare a thought for those who aren’t as lucky/can’t make it to the show

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by dancy » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:20 am

opendoor wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:25 am
dancy wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:04 pm
Yeah, they don't seem to put much effort into attracting new viewers or keeping their casual viewers interested, possibly because they like having a smaller, more intimate audience. Do I personally think it's smart to rely on an audience of people whose interests can change and whose loyalty can waver? Eh. Nothing wrong with following a trend/playing a popular game once in a while in hopes of gaining new subscribers who could turn into loyal ones.
Yeah, this is my concern- people don't stay in fandoms forever. Not attracting new viewers is a good way to make your audience dwindle.
Yup, people can talk about D&P's loyal audience (and not needing new or casual subscribers) all they want but I don't necessarily think loyalty last forever in this case and it's not like their core audience hasn't shrunk either over the last few years. That's why I think it's important for them to try and bring in new subscribers from time to time (it's not like they would have to do it all the time or as if that would make them seem desperate) and make sure they continue to put good content on a somewhat frequent basis out there for people to watch and talk about. It would be unwise to expect people to stick around if D&P don't have much to give, even if those people have been watching them for years. Besides, I reckon the majority of their (and especially Dan's) subscribers are casual ones anyway and the idea of sort of dismissing those because they supposedly don't serve that much of a financial purpose doesn't really sit well with me either.

I don't know what their plans for the near future are but (what I was trying to illustrate with my previous post is that) I am a bit afraid of the content dwindling down again soon and for people to experience a similar type of frustration that was felt by some earlier this year and how that will work out for D&P, seeing as tour planning won't be an excuse anymore (although tour recovery will of course be a thing for the first few months). Maybe I have nothing to fear and everything will be fine but right now I do find the lack of main channel videos from both of them and the likelihood of far fewer live shows and Instagram stories and such things a bit worrisome.
ame wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:00 am
re:dans recent insta story

first and foremost, he sounded really calm and soothing in that story - now that thats out of the way, its nice to see them address this topic in a format where we can actually see their faces. sure, its not "in person" but its closer to that than a composed tweet. i feel like with the last time where phil tweeted about the manila thing still leaving a bitter after taste within the fandom, seeing dan "talk" about it is kinda refreshing and i wonder if its them going "hey, we listened to your feedback". i know its not really a "tour announcement" but more of an "update", but in terms of the tone and the way it was delivered - this story took into consideration the severity of the situation (hurricane) appropriately. and idk if its because theres lives that are at risk rather than an unfortunate inconvenience (ie. people refunding their show or getting reassigned seats, booking another day at a hotel, etc.).

anyways, this is my sixth sense tingling that lurker dan is amongst us, jk. its just interesting to me.
Yes, I'm rather impressed with the fact that he addressed this issue and the way he did he so because I knew some people were worried about the typhoon and how that might affect D&P and the show. I hope it's a step towards better communication from them in the future :thumb:

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by Whereisvinci » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:29 am

Going to ii tonight, super thankful that the typhoon has passed. It was really scary on Sunday, many trees were uprooted and my apartment was slightly swaying at one point. But almost everything is back to normal now. So glad that Dan addressed the typhoon situation was so sincere when doing so. Anyway I'm excited for tonight :lol:
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by Ataraxia25 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:33 am

i'll put them here
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by alittledizzy » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:55 pm

dancy wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:20 am
opendoor wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:25 am
dancy wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:04 pm
Yeah, they don't seem to put much effort into attracting new viewers or keeping their casual viewers interested, possibly because they like having a smaller, more intimate audience. Do I personally think it's smart to rely on an audience of people whose interests can change and whose loyalty can waver? Eh. Nothing wrong with following a trend/playing a popular game once in a while in hopes of gaining new subscribers who could turn into loyal ones.
Yeah, this is my concern- people don't stay in fandoms forever. Not attracting new viewers is a good way to make your audience dwindle.
Yup, people can talk about D&P's loyal audience (and not needing new or casual subscribers) all they want but I don't necessarily think loyalty last forever in this case and it's not like their core audience hasn't shrunk either over the last few years. That's why I think it's important for them to try and bring in new subscribers from time to time (it's not like they would have to do it all the time or as if that would make them seem desperate) and make sure they continue to put good content on a somewhat frequent basis out there for people to watch and talk about. It would be unwise to expect people to stick around if D&P don't have much to give, even if those people have been watching them for years. Besides, I reckon the majority of their (and especially Dan's) subscribers are casual ones anyway and the idea of sort of dismissing those because they supposedly don't serve that much of a financial purpose doesn't really sit well with me either.
I still don't think that there's anything that doom and gloom. People left fandom in much bigger waves back in 2015/2016. Maybe new people to replace them came hot and heavier, maybe things in general are just a little calmer now, but it's not the drastic difference in terms of core audience outlook that it's being portrayed as. This is not a make or break situation for them. There are people out there successfully making a living at youtube with two hundred thousand subscribers if they know how to expand outside the platform well. There are previously famous youtubers with a tenth of the views now still living in luxury homes that they can easily afford - that Dan and Phil still do massively better than, in terms of views.

I think the point some of us were trying to make is that it might not seem like as much of a negative to Dan and Phil right now to have an audience that's calming down and a bit less intense/scary, that is more centered around appreciating them as the more realistic blend of stage/screen presence and real people that they are now. I have a feeling if you ask Dan if he'd rather have five million views on a ~relatable comedy~ video or one million people who appreciate him making videos about depression and living his truth, he'd take the million any day. I don't view that as dismissing fans of videos because they don't serve a financial purpose, I view it as a career direction choice that it's within his right to make. No one is obligated to keep doing the same job they were doing six years ago just because it made them money then, you know? Though as I type this I realize I'm definitely relating Dan's previous regular video making with his also heavily depressed, pre-treatment era so maybe that's a different topic already. My point is: they're not struggling newcomers trying to pay their rent anymore. They can afford to be picky with their job choices and they can afford to encourage the kind of audience that they genuinely enjoy interacting with even if that interaction takes a different form or comes less quickly than old school fans are used to. The landscape is not that dim, imo. I'm genuinely very excited to see what of their life this 2018 version of Dan and Phil shares when things get back to normal, even if there aren't as many videos or liveshows so I would hate the idea of them feeling boxed into having to resume exactly what they did before knowing that they're in a different place now than they were even a year ago in with their relationship to us.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by yeetussy » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:24 pm

Whereisvinci wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:29 am
Going to ii tonight, super thankful that the typhoon has passed. It was really scary on Sunday, many trees were uprooted and my apartment was slightly swaying at one point. But almost everything is back to normal now. So glad that Dan addressed the typhoon situation was so sincere when doing so. Anyway I'm excited for tonight :lol:
Very, very happy to know you’re safe and able to go. Enjoy your show!!!!!! My thoughts and prayers towards your country, the Philippines, and everywhere else hit by the typhoon. <3 :kissyrat: :rat: :tworats: :tworats:

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by autumnhearth » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:41 pm

I definitely echo the above. Stay safe everyone. :love2:
It was different seeing Dan more somber and yes, sincere.
A very cute M&G pose :japhan:

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by LadyLackless » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:46 pm

autumnhearth wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:41 pm
A very cute M&G pose :japhan:
Phil’s hair is UNRULY and I’m LOVING IT! <3 <3 <3

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 76: i can't i don't have legs

Post by LurkingTrash » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:37 pm

Heartwarming ig stories today <3
I'm following the m&g photos too and it's all so cute!
I'm going to miss this tour a lot even if I didn't get to go.

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