Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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ratlad
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oh yeah, happy 9 years since Dan's first video! ah, Phil's influence.
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Stakhanov
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Ataraxia25 wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:47 pm
Stakhanov wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:05 am This video has been a nice surprise. I think it stands out so much because we've become so used to seeing them in this narrowcasted, predictable role of two guys playing a game and make some gay bants, while the conversation went much broader here, and the setting was brilliant.

On the setting and concept of the video: i agree it looks and feels more 'natural' or 'genuine', but if you listen to what they say you realize it's everything but. They obviously thought about how things would look, and decided to sit down on the floor in comfortable clothing just to make it feel more personal. And it does work. That's the art of youtube.
I do think them eating sort of relaxes them, and helps them to have some casual conversation. People getting together for a meal and talking is something that sort of happens in almost every culture throughout human history and they both seem to have a rather intense relationship with food :D . It also gives them a perfect way to block off certain questions or transition to 'oh look this onion is so crispy' whenever a topic gets uncomfortable or one of them doesn't care to explain further. That's something I noticed, together with some cuts where I wonder what they left out.

I hope they make more video's like this. It's nice to be included in their 'sacred ritual' and this is the direction I hope their content evolves too: two friends having a interesting, more adult, broad and entertaining personal talk. That's my answer to Dan's dramatic cry 'Who are you? Who are we? What do you want?!'. 13/10 they should do it again :love1:

I think that for every kind of content put out there, they will think about it, it's a natural reaction. Just like most people, i guess they don't like creating content without thinking about it first, i'd do the same. i don't think because they thought about where to sit and what to wear it makes the video less genuine/relaxed. I'm having a hard time understanting your point of view, to you, because it wasn't on the spur of the moment (as you said they thought about it and decided what to wear and where to sit) then the video is not honest?

also for this bit in particular :
Stakhanov wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:05 am It also gives them a perfect way to block off certain questions or transition to 'oh look this onion is so crispy' whenever a topic gets uncomfortable or one of them doesn't care to explain further. That's something I noticed, together with some cuts where I wonder what they left out.
I think you're right and we can even see it in the video that they indeed edited some stuff out (again, i think it's normal) but i don't think eating was a way to block off certains questions, not purposefully. And they shared deep and genuine things with us in this video, i can totally understand that they edited stuff out, it seems normal to me. we can't expect everything, but i think it was more of a natural instinct to change topics rather than something thought in advance, you know? if that's what you meant

on the whole i just think that it's not that they tried to make the video look like it was a relaxed and genuine one, i think they just tried to make themselves comfortable and relaxed (hence the pjs the food the casual setup)
i feel like it was a hard video for them in a way (being this open to your audience after years of trying to close off your private life) and they just tried to be as comfortable as they could.
I don't think our views on the video are that differently fundamentally (or perhaps i misunderstand what you're saying).
I agree that they will think about anything they put out there and there's nothing wrong with that. Like Dan said in his last liveshow: i guess i'm a male entertainer (paraphrasing). They were at least partly in there role of entertainers and acted partly, I think, as they would do if they were eating Domino's and there was no camera to register it and no video to make. But i think there are differences, both in what they would say and how they would say it.

That's what i mean with the video not being completely genuine. Maybe 'framed' or 'constructed' are better words in English. I certainly don't mean it in the sense of them personally being 'disingenuous people' or dishonest people or anything like that. I avoid using the word dishonest because that conflates the issue even more. I was talking strictly about how it's not completely genuine only relating to how the video was made fit for the purpose of entertaining, of promoting their dvd, of projecting an image that's broadly consistent with how we know them, and how that influences the picture we get to see. It's not a moral judgment about them as people. I would say almost all vlogs, tv-shows, biographies... are in varying degrees 'disingenuine'.

I would say at the some spots they acted 'dishonest' only in the same sense that I and the people around me are 'dishonest' when we talk to each other in our role as coworkers, journalists or politicians. We always omit things, filter things, purposely phrase things in a certain way. In this video, I think we see a mix of Dan and Phil being genuinely themselves and Dan and Phil in their role as entertainers. All in all, i thought this video was disarmingly honest and casual compared to recent vids, but yea i think they also purposefully wanted to make it look that way (which I appreciate) and I notice how it sometimes gets in the way of an ever more genuine and personal video, which is always my dream: seeing them as unfiltered and with as little as a wall as possible.

About the food being used as distraction I agree it could just be a natural thing, or it could be an unintentional way they changed topics... or it could be an intentional thing. I don't know for sure and I think it's impossible to know, that why I tried phrasing it as 'it provides them with a perfect way to change the convo' because I think it does, regardless of whether that was their intention. It was fun (they are so obviously in love with food :lol: -and each other) but it was also annoying because it did block of some of moments where I really wished they didn't change topics. Maybe that's just a coincidence, maybe not. I know that i myself sometimes genuinely get distracted by stuff and sometimes act as if i'm distracted by something to purposefully steer conversation, and they are clever boys who I don't doubt for a minute can pull a trick like that too.

Unnecessary side comparison and flashback to my sociology course :)
It's a bit like when Dan wonders if he 'has a personality' or is just wearing different faces and says that maybe even with his cherished best friend (or boyfriend) he's putting on a mask. I think the reality is that we always put on different masks to *some* degree, that we always fill various (sometimes conflicting) roles in different situations, and that we choose, in interaction to the context and situation, what (parts of) roles or 'versions' of ourselves we put out there at any given moment. So yea Dan... I think you do have a personality and like anyone part of that personality is what kind of role, what kind of 'public self' we choose to put out there. These different roles interact with different ways we build our identity, like what Cooley described as our 'looking-glass self' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking-glass_self . Dan is not the empty shell I sometimes (fear) he thinks he is. He's decisively human. I would wages even Phil is human, but evidence is more scarce :lol: )
Finding my own inarticulate prose
Weirding out strangers and laughing at those
Jaundiced and jaded, postured and posed
Not that we’re special it’s just that we’re
Closing in on a place where we might get to be
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Looks like they might have had a work brunch with Lauren and Sarah (at least those two) and then walked along the river after! Lovely instagrams all around.
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i don't want to hear phil call a duck "sexy" ever again.
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So the lovely missemma has dragged me back on here so I can voice my very personal opinion on this video (after I bored her for 3 hours about it last night).

I’m gonna be one of those posters who can’t read the full convo till I’ve voiced this because I will be too scared to say anything.

Feel free to ignore! I just wanted to show that someone’s reaction to this video wasn’t all good or positive.

Basically I had a massive anxiety attack during this video and ended up hugely upset after it. I started off very viscerally affected (I was cringing and squeaking, my body wasn’t reacting well!) and then well I was broken. I spent my whole life thinking I was the only one who felt certain ways and thought certain things and then dan Howell came along and basically was a mirror of a lot of things I feel. I won’t go too deep here but yes it was a massive struggle to watch.

I felt quite alone reading my twitter timeline because people were so soft about the video. So now I’m going to read this thread because I know you lot like to go in depth (ha well done me) and I want to see what all your opinions were and if you all felt soft and why.

Sorry to interrupt the thread, you can carry on now I’ve mouthed off :oops:
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rizzo wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:33 pm I've been pondering the mukbang all day long and in particular, the bit where Phil briefly touches on how much they've learned about their audience on tour:
itasca00 wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:49 am [*][21:42] Dan and Phil talk about the diversity of their audience, especially when it comes to age. I'm very pleased that this is something they've taken to heart. I hope it will make them feel like they have more freedom with the kinds of content they can create.
D: It really changed my perspective on who all of them are going on this tour.
P: I know because, sometimes, people are like, "Oh, wow. Dan and Phil's..."
D: That a lot of people stand out.
P: Yeah, "Dan and Phil's audience are all this one kind of person."
D: No.
P: But they're not. They're such a diverse group.
D: Firstly, y’all are so old.
P: There's lots of--loads of people that've stuck with us for ten years.
D: People are like, "I’m the oldest person here. I’m nineteen."
P: No, you're not.
D: No.
And I really wanted to touch on this briefly, because in thinking about it, I get the feeling that this goes beyond just generic demographics. I think it also applies to their acceptance and appreciation that their audience is largely queer. And I think it's almost more visible in Phil than it is Dan... because Dan's been more open in that capacity for much longer than Phil has.

I chatted briefly with @alittledizzy about the idea that meeting their audience helped them come to conclusion that it's okay to not have to be #1 on youtube, but better to just comfortably work to maintain and make-happy the audience you already have. But the more i think about it, the more I think it's also just helpful to have this audience that helps them grow and feel comfortable as individuals in the limelight?? Like Dan said, their audience is genuinely just... good people.

And these people that show up to the meet & greets... they show up with pride flags and stories about how Dan and Phil helped them be themselves. And like, that's not something D&P push. Being queer is not a topic in their videos or a focus for them at all, but it's an important aspect of a lot of the audience they've built and if what they care about now is just... appreciating that audience for what it is? I can see it making Phil feel more comfortable and confident noting the pizza guys looks like Efron.

What I think I'm trying to say here is that... All this time, they've been trying to give the people what they want, but are only now realizing that the people were giving them what they need.
Yes to all of the above. I also thought quite a lot about them mentioning the ages of their fans and I was genuinely surprised they noticed that their fans are a lot older now. I didn’t think they would have noticed given that a lot of people at the M&G were still younger but the actual audiences themselves were a lot older. I really do hope if they do another tour in time that they make it a proper adult type show.

@idk your post was 10/10 thank you for taking the time to post it.

@RachelPhan yay you posted ❤️ I think it’s an interesting point to make that not everyone related in a positive way to the video and I encourage anyone to post here if they struggled watching it because I am sure you aren’t alone. I definitely read other posts here where people also struggled watching it. Also no apologising allowed here, make sure you join in when you can ❤️
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This video was everything

Ngl, I couldn't even fall asleep properly bc I kept thinking about. I've been watching dnp since 2014 and to see how far they've come in is amazing.

I agree with many points on here so I won't be redundant, but I keep finding new things that make me feel so happy every time I rewatch it. Hopefully we get more of these types of videos in the future.

Also, Happy 9 years of Hello Internet!!!! :newyear:

I know Dan hates this video, and I can't help but cringe every time I watch it but I just love it. I cringe but I also find it so endearing, I can't help but coo at fetus! Dan.
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RachelPhan wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 pm So the lovely missemma has dragged me back on here so I can voice my very personal opinion on this video (after I bored her for 3 hours about it last night).

I’m gonna be one of those posters who can’t read the full convo till I’ve voiced this because I will be too scared to say anything.

Feel free to ignore! I just wanted to show that someone’s reaction to this video wasn’t all good or positive.

Basically I had a massive anxiety attack during this video and ended up hugely upset after it. I started off very viscerally affected (I was cringing and squeaking, my body wasn’t reacting well!) and then well I was broken. I spent my whole life thinking I was the only one who felt certain ways and thought certain things and then dan Howell came along and basically was a mirror of a lot of things I feel. I won’t go too deep here but yes it was a massive struggle to watch.

I felt quite alone reading my twitter timeline because people were so soft about the video. So now I’m going to read this thread because I know you lot like to go in depth (ha well done me) and I want to see what all your opinions were and if you all felt soft and why.

Sorry to interrupt the thread, you can carry on now I’ve mouthed off :oops:
I'm really glad your shared your reaction to the video. It's not an opinion I saw expressed a lot on here, but there was one fantastic post on tumblr. It's timestamps from someone who had a similar reaction (in tone if not for exactly the same reasons, I don't want to assume there) to you.
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alittledizzy wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:32 pm
RachelPhan wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 pm So the lovely missemma has dragged me back on here so I can voice my very personal opinion on this video (after I bored her for 3 hours about it last night).

I’m gonna be one of those posters who can’t read the full convo till I’ve voiced this because I will be too scared to say anything.

Feel free to ignore! I just wanted to show that someone’s reaction to this video wasn’t all good or positive.

Basically I had a massive anxiety attack during this video and ended up hugely upset after it. I started off very viscerally affected (I was cringing and squeaking, my body wasn’t reacting well!) and then well I was broken. I spent my whole life thinking I was the only one who felt certain ways and thought certain things and then dan Howell came along and basically was a mirror of a lot of things I feel. I won’t go too deep here but yes it was a massive struggle to watch.

I felt quite alone reading my twitter timeline because people were so soft about the video. So now I’m going to read this thread because I know you lot like to go in depth (ha well done me) and I want to see what all your opinions were and if you all felt soft and why.

Sorry to interrupt the thread, you can carry on now I’ve mouthed off :oops:
I'm really glad your shared your reaction to the video. It's not an opinion I saw expressed a lot on here, but there was one fantastic post on tumblr. It's timestamps from someone who had a similar reaction (in tone if not for exactly the same reasons, I don't want to assume there) to you.
Thanks for this. I read waveys post (well some of it) earlier but couldn’t get through it. I’ve just read it all now and it’s so calming to me to see that I wasn’t the only one that felt this way about it. I don’t think I’ll ever rewatch it (well not soon and certainly not alone) but seeing the timestamps helps cement certain things in my brain.
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@RachelPhan It sucks that you felt like that about the video! I hope you're doing okay after that panic attack.

While not exactly for the same reasons, I actually had a reaction like yours to Daniel And Depression, which is another popular video that almost everyone loves. I hate it. I always feel awful for saying that because I recognize that it's a well made video and that it's important to Dan and many other people. But I just can't. When I watched it I felt ill. Not even just mentally, but physically. I have never rewatched it and tbh I never want to. I can't put myself through the aftermath of that again, which was more than a week of being in a very bad place. And then I felt even more shit about me feeling that way because nobody else seemed to be feeling like that :(

I'm glad that you shared your experience :love2:
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itasca00 wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:09 pm
Question for people who were raised in England (or maybe all of the UK): I'm a little bit confused by this discussion: [29:55]. Based on these sources [1, 2], it was my understanding that when English people say "vest," they are referring to the article of clothing pictured under the spoiler, which I would call a "tank top":
Image
But, in the video, Phil is saying that his mom told him to wear a vest for warmth, which doesn't make sense for that article of clothing. Instead, it makes me think of the article of clothing that I would call a vest:
Image
But that doesn't make sense based on my understanding of the way English people use the term "vest." Upon further investigation, it seems that English people might also use "vest" to refer to undershirts like the one below:
Image
I've never heard of this before, but apparently people sometimes wear undershirts like that for warmth?
From these sources [1, 3]:
Vests are worn under a shirt to keep you warm in winter and stop your shirt getting sweat stained in summer
A vest is like a tank top but worn as underwear to keep you warm, children mainly wear these in winter, well my 8 year old sister does anyway!
I would say a vest is a top that is worn underneath your top to keep you warm, or a vest as in for the summer time is like a spaghetti strap top.
This makes what Phil's mom said make sense, but then why did Dan refer to Victorian times? And, if they were referring to the undershirt type of "vest," why were they talking about Phil getting his guns out, as that type of "vest" would be worn underneath another article of clothing? Am I missing something?
Ataraxia25 wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:19 pm
@itasca00
i pictured this
Image
because dan said something about victorians afterwards but it doesn't make sense, was what is on my pic supposed to keep you warm during the victorian era? so i'm glad you asked because i don't know either what a vest really is.
Salt wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:36 pm
itasca00 wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:09 pm
This makes what Phil's mom said make sense, but then why did Dan refer to Victorian times? And, if they were referring to the undershirt type of "vest," why were they talking about Phil getting his guns out, as that type of "vest" would be worn underneath another article of clothing? Am I missing something?
Perhaps she meant sweater vest? From my understanding a vest is pretty much anything without sleeves (undervests, sweater vests, even waistcoats...)
LadyLackless wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:38 pm
@itasca00 sorry none of your images worked for me :(

A vest is a sleeveless cotton/thermal tshirt that is worn underneath your clothes for warmth.
(@Ataraxia25 your pic I would call a waistcoat)
They are quite old fashioned concept, like usually only old men wear them, which is why Dan mentions Victorian times :D

Fun northernism, there is an old northern saying “ne’er cast a clout ‘til the month of May is out” (meaning: don’t go out without a vest on until the end of May) because it’s parky oop north :lol:
enjoy a sketch with Northern comedians taking the piss out of northerners [YouTube]https://youtu.be/plfm0zjYE5Q[/YouTube]
flarequake wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:20 pm
I noticed the vest thing too, Phil’s mum totally meant the undershirt variety to keep warm. Kids wear them too. The sleeveless type in the photo, the black fleece one, people tend to call that the French name gilet in the UK, but it can be another fabric too, they’re sometimes padded/puffa style.
Thanks for all the input! I think you've cleared everything up for me, and I appreciate it! :tu:
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I have a bunch of different thoughts about D&P/the mukbang so I'm just gonna dump everything in here and then go off to bed :lol:

First: I'm not actually sure if I've said this before but it's an idea I've had for ages and I think now is a good moment to repeat it: I would love love LOVE seeing deppy do something similar to the 100 Days thing John Green did a while ago. It would fit so well with videos like this mukbang one too, and we'd actually get to see them do sports and be healthy instead of hearing about it months later. (It could also be in cooperation with Young Minds and they could make a sports merch line so there'd be some money in it too.)

Second: I already talked about this a bit in the Vlogbrothers thread but I read Hank Green's book recently, and knowing D&P both got copies I would love some kind of content discussing their thoughts about the book and the themes in it. In another mukbang video, podcast, a liveshow, anything really. I'd just love to hear their perspective on it.

Third:
starwatersong wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:51 am Also, good job, boys!! The DVD is third on the best selling DVD/movie list for Amazon in the UK and the number one best seller in the US and Canada!
lmao I hope all those people saying D&P are irrelevant/their careers are over are seeing this as well.

Fourth: I saw some people on tumblr say we're now in a "post-mukbang universe" and I, for one, am incredibly excited about whatever they come up with next.
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So it looks like BBC launched a new label called Talent Works. The first project they are launching? Dnp's with the Interactive Introverts DVD. These boys still paving the way for other creators.
You can read full article here:https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/bbc-st ... 202981269/
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hello9217 wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:52 pm So it looks like BBC launched a new label called Talent Works. The first project they are launching? Dnp's with the Interactive Introverts DVD. These boys still paving the way for other creators.
You can read full article here:https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/bbc-st ... 202981269/
So the Itunes version is available Nov. 19 but the DVD doesn't come out until December?
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i do plan to make an in-depth post about my feelings on the video tomorrow after my 4th rewatch :lol: but i did want to respond to this:
RachelPhan wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 pm
So the lovely missemma has dragged me back on here so I can voice my very personal opinion on this video (after I bored her for 3 hours about it last night).

I’m gonna be one of those posters who can’t read the full convo till I’ve voiced this because I will be too scared to say anything.

Feel free to ignore! I just wanted to show that someone’s reaction to this video wasn’t all good or positive.

Basically I had a massive anxiety attack during this video and ended up hugely upset after it. I started off very viscerally affected (I was cringing and squeaking, my body wasn’t reacting well!) and then well I was broken. I spent my whole life thinking I was the only one who felt certain ways and thought certain things and then dan Howell came along and basically was a mirror of a lot of things I feel. I won’t go too deep here but yes it was a massive struggle to watch.

I felt quite alone reading my twitter timeline because people were so soft about the video. So now I’m going to read this thread because I know you lot like to go in depth (ha well done me) and I want to see what all your opinions were and if you all felt soft and why.

Sorry to interrupt the thread, you can carry on now I’ve mouthed off :oops:
while i did personally love the video and will likely continue to rewatch it very very often, i also have been feeling really awful about certain parts of it. specifically, dan talking about the pain of just existing. firstly because it puts the way i feel into real terms that i have to then think about, but also knowing that someone i truly care for so deeply, despite never having met him, feels that way as well. it sucks. it feels terrible. and it makes me fear losing him. it makes me start to worry about their codependence and how much dan relies on phil for any happiness at all in his life. it sends me on that kind of spiral.

the discussion of personality and having a phil-specific face also sends me on a bit of a spiral. again, i can relate. i have bpd and i don't really know what my real personality is because i have a version of myself that i become depending on who i'm with. i'm always performing to be the version of myself that will be liked most based on the company i'm with. i think people who don't deal with this might've read that comment wrong, something more akin to having no emotions. but that's what i think dan was really going for, just feeling like he's unsure of what parts of him are real and what parts of him are fabricated and performed to please others. i think it comes from mental illness but also from playing a larger-than-life caricature of yourself on the internet for so long. i do believe that dan is his most authentic self with phil but i also sympathize in the fear that he may not be. and it makes me really sad to know he feels that way. i just really do want him to be happy.

having him open up about these vulnerabilities, i just hate knowing he feels that way and that i can't sit down with him and have a conversation about it and explain how much i understand and how much i support him and how much it's true that we all just want his happiness. i know phil is the most loving and caring partner he could ever ask for, but i also don't think phil can't really relate to dan's clinical depression, and therefore, from my experience, can't say much that will be all that helpful.

i'm sure all this text hasn't made anyone feel any better about the video but i just wanted to say that you're certainly not alone in feeling sad after watching. luckily, for me, these moments that make me feel especially sad are rather brief so i can distract myself with the rest of the video.
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Yesterday I thought I'd never watch the mukbang again and today I spent a frankly ridiculous amount of time watching and analyzing each segment and jumpcut to see if I could better understand some of the things Dan and Phil said and perhaps interpret the video as a whole in a less depressing manner.

The most important take-away for me, was that after 19:35 where Phil asks "Are you okay?" and Dan responds "No." there's one of the longest jumpcuts. At 19:38 the pizza box has shifted towards Phil, the pizza itself has been picked up and moved to Phil's side of the table, they've eaten several fries and Phil's halfway through a slice of pizza already.

I think there are concerning side-effects of having a private conversation publicly. It scares me that they're doing this thing they've never done before, they're both making themselves vulnerable, and not everything they normally do to support each other in times of vulnerability is something they're willing to do publicly.

This is especially clear around 22:10 when Dan puts his hand on Phil's shoulder while he's talking about feeling purposeless. I am guessing, based on their successful 9 year relationship and the fact that Phil is a compassionate person, that Phil's normal, private response to Dan reaching out to him both emotionally and physically is not to turn in the opposite direction and stare unblinkingly at the middle distance with scared eyes. Just a guess.

They do respond to each other supportively throughout the video, but the instances where they don't stand out because it seems obvious that the reason they're not responding is the presence of the camera.

Which is all the say! That it's a relief to me to see that after Dan expresses that he isn't okay, they go into private mode and bring the video back some indeterminate amount of time later.

That reassures me. I can't say I'm not still concerned and sad. To be perfectly honest, I may need to distance myself from the fandom if Dan continues to monetize his suffering based on his precieved desires of his audience, an audience of which I am a part as long as I continue to watch his videos. I don't know how Dan can say seemingly perfectly honestly that eating is a break from constant pain, that eating makes his anxieties go away, and that eating on camera makes him anxious--and then go ahead and make a main channel video with Phil where he eats on camera and that's the whole point and the knowledge of that dissonance is literally part of the video. Like. What the fucking fuck daniel.

Time will tell. Maybe they just need sleep and some time off to gather themselves again. Maybe changing his relationship with food by making it part of his career will actually have a positive impact. I just hope Dan and Phil and (please god please) their therapist(s) talk about and process these things.

So. Shit. I was actually going to list all the things I found especially sweet and loving in the video at the end here to practice having a more positive outlook, but I feel like I've kind of killed the mood. I guess I'll have plenty of time to do that in the next 10 years I'm processing this video.

I appreciate how eloquent everyone has been in expressing the whole range of emotions we've experienced from the mukbang video. @obsessivelymoody I especially enjoyed reading what you wrote about love languages! Welcome all to the post-mukbang universe.
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sugar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:26 am having him open up about these vulnerabilities, i just hate knowing he feels that way and that i can't sit down with him and have a conversation about it and explain how much i understand and how much i support him and how much it's true that we all just want his happiness. i know phil is the most loving and caring partner he could ever ask for, but i also don't think phil can't really relate to dan's clinical depression, and therefore, from my experience, can't say much that will be all that helpful.
One of the main things I've taken away from this video is that there is truly so much that Phil doesn't show his audience. It's actually created a bit of dissonance within my mind and how I view Phil. And even though he did open up more than ever, I sensed that he was still leaning more towards his persona in his reactions and comments (as his safe place? or something like that?). I guess all I'm trying to say is that Phil may be better equipped than we know, even now, at relating to Dan. And that is something that makes me feel better :love2:
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bluntedclaws wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:12 am
hello9217 wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:52 pm So it looks like BBC launched a new label called Talent Works. The first project they are launching? Dnp's with the Interactive Introverts DVD. These boys still paving the way for other creators.
You can read full article here:https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/bbc-st ... 202981269/
So the Itunes version is available Nov. 19 but the DVD doesn't come out until December?
Would it be possible that the article means it becomes available for preordering on iTunes on Friday?
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knq wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:47 am

That reassures me. I can't say I'm not still concerned and sad. To be perfectly honest, I may need to distance myself from the fandom if Dan continues to monetize his suffering based on his precieved desires of his audience, an audience of which I am a part as long as I continue to watch his videos. I don't know how Dan can say seemingly perfectly honestly that eating is a break from constant pain, that eating makes his anxieties go away, and that eating on camera makes him anxious--and then go ahead and make a main channel video with Phil where he eats on camera and that's the whole point and the knowledge of that dissonance is literally part of the video. Like. What the fucking fuck daniel.

Time will tell. Maybe they just need sleep and some time off to gather themselves again. Maybe changing his relationship with food by making it part of his career will actually have a positive impact. I just hope Dan and Phil and (please god please) their therapist(s) talk about and process these things.
That's a remarkable statement imo, I don't really see the link between eating pizza and Dan monetizing his suffering. The way I understand Dan, you have to be careful with taking his words literally. When he says "eating is a break from constant pain" I think he is honestly pointing to how food is a coping mechanism for him and a source of comfort. But it's also stated in typical Dan fashion: it's phrased rather dramatic and extreme if you take the whole statement literally. Which you shouldn't with Dan, because if your take him literally his statements are at times nonsensical. You kind of his to intuit (or guess) what (emotional) place he's coming from. Which is always going to be a subjective exercise and that's one of the reasons why so much of his statements can be ambiguous and often lead to different interpretations within the fandom.

I don't think he is in a constant excruciating pain that can subside when he eats. I think what he's meaning to say there is that food is one (of the many or the few) things that help him cope with what his real mental issues, which we don't know the details from but (at least in the past) he labels as a clinical depression.
I don't understand why you blame him so much then for saying food comforts him. I don't think he specifically said it makes 'his anxieties go away' but even if he did, what's so bad about food as a coping mechanism, not liking to eat before his youtube audience since he views mukbang as something potentially sexual and kinky, and then make a video eating a pizza with Phil? I'll grant you that there is an inconsistency there, but it's hardly the only thing where he claims to hate or not like something, then goes on and does it anyway. All of us do that to varying degrees, nobody is entirely consistent about everything and about some things we all feel and act contradictory. I think he's being honest about it and recognizes it, which is more than can be said about most people imo. LIke when he brings up his part time vegetarianism, he recognizes there's some cognitive dissonance in his behavior vs his views about it. I think the same goes for his stance on not liking to eat on camera. It's complicated, they want to let us partake in the 'ritual of pigging out on domino's after a busy period', but he doesn't want to be sexualized while eating, he's got an intense relationship with food that's also connected with coping with his mental issues, but at the same time it's also just food and he can eat something (and get emotional to the point of crying :lol: ) for the purpose of entertaining.

The whole video is after all a mix of them being just themselves and sharing some personal stuff and them thinking about making a video as entertainers. That's why they are deliberately sitting on the floor wearing pyjama's and staring in a camera after all.
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Catallena wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:46 pm @RachelPhan It sucks that you felt like that about the video! I hope you're doing okay after that panic attack.

While not exactly for the same reasons, I actually had a reaction like yours to Daniel And Depression, which is another popular video that almost everyone loves. I hate it. I always feel awful for saying that because I recognize that it's a well made video and that it's important to Dan and many other people. But I just can't. When I watched it I felt ill. Not even just mentally, but physically. I have never rewatched it and tbh I never want to. I can't put myself through the aftermath of that again, which was more than a week of being in a very bad place. And then I felt even more shit about me feeling that way because nobody else seemed to be feeling like that :(

I'm glad that you shared your experience :love2:
@Catallena I just wanted to say that you're not alone, I had a very bad reaction to Daniel and Depression as well. That's crazy, I didn't know other people felt the same way I did. I felt guilty too that I didn't like it the way others did. In theory it's a really good video that's helped a lot of people but watching it makes me feel sick. I'm not really sure why. I can usually watch videos about depression without it being too triggering... but there's something about hearing Dan talk about depression. I guess I feel such a personal connection to him that hearing his struggles is just too real for me. I love Dan. He''s the embodiment of everything I love and I have idolized him for years. I hate myself. It's so hard to hear him feeling the same things I have felt, and knowing that he's overcome them and is going on world tours with his best friend while I'm still laying in bed and haven't showered for three days. Just being honest here.
:sparkle: this was the most fun i've ever had :sparkle:
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Interesting that the conversation turned this way when I was just processing the same thing yesterday evening. I’m not sure why it took me a full year to come to terms with Dan’s depression. I guess after his d&d video I viewed it as more of a thing of the past or an infrequent thing that pops up (though it seems to have cropped up again at the beginning of the new year) And I didn’t know how to reconcile it with this view in phandom (and impression from seeing their content) that they are both so happy and in love (obviously you can be happy and in love and depressed and anxious at the same time/slightly different times). I think that their success has also skewed my perception, as a lot of my anxiety comes from financial insecurity, so to not have that... but of course that’s not the way depression and anxiety work either.

I dunno, that pain comment hit me hard last night and I know that Dan is known for his hyperbole, and that obviously more than food distracts him, there’s laughter and sex, but also art/media. He seemed pretty good in his solo ls last week and always has supportive messages for others, but at the same time I feel like I’m done dismissing (and being annoyed by) his negative statements, though I’m also going to try not to be overly concerned and worried, because I do have my own issues to deal with and there isn’t really anything I can do to help him, but yeah... I think I understand a little better now.

As for his not wanting others to watch him eat, I don’t think it’s *just* about vegans and I really don’t think it’s about not wanting to be sexualized (unless he’s changed his view recently, after all those years of baking videos with his moaning and orgasm comments), but I remember when they were playing that food fantasy spon on tour and they were laying out the tables in their restaurant and I think they were making a lot of single tables and he said he didn’t like people watching him while he ate. The exception was the one fancy romantic table for two, that they both cooed over that and well... you know where I’m going with this.

Obviously he’s comfortable eating in front of Phil (and of course he’s eaten in group settings at birthday outings, conventions, family dinners and brunches) and maybe he is trying to get over his fear of doing it on camera as a sort of immersion therapy. And if we get another muckbang in the future then they must have talked it over and decided it’s positive. So personally I’m not hesitant as a viewer, but I really appreciate your observations @knq especially the big jump cut. It’s actually comforting to know that we didn’t see everything.

Quick response @goodbants ugh I relate to that last part.
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sugar wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:26 am i know phil is the most loving and caring partner he could ever ask for, but i also don't think phil can't really relate to dan's clinical depression, and therefore, from my experience, can't say much that will be all that helpful.
This is so insulting I logged in for the first time in like...a year to respond to that.

Yes, mental illness is a lonely struggle. Yet good, supportive partner of a person with a clinical depression can in fact understand it and be an immense help (especially when they know each other well, and gel together well). Definetely more chances of them being helpful than two random people with the same illness just randomly talking.

That is even before the fact that it is entirely possible (and should be done, for a good long term partner) to educate themselves scientifically and personally (via therapy, couple sessions, classes, books, and directions from the depressed partner) on the most helpful way to act and talk in and around it.
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I can't help but compare this video with the Confession Roulette video they did in 2013. In that one Phil brings up that he can hear dan pacing around in his room at 5 in the morning. He later goes on to ask dan why he's doing that and that it's weird he does it in the first place. I'm assuming that this was a time when dan himself didn't even know to the full extent why he was doing it but it's so jarring to hear Phil call it weird and then later tell him it's not "normal human behavior." Like that sounds so harsh and phil probably didn't mean much by it but I'm sure that comment was not the greatest thing for dan to hear.
And now we have this video where Phil talks with dan through everything he brings up and just listens so openly and without any judgment to pass. Even when he did say something like bringing up that dan was doing good eating in front of people and dan didn't like the comment, Phil listened and agreed to what dan says and said he shouldn't have brought it up. It's just really nice to see how much they've grown together and how much they've worked on to become who they are now. They are so good now about reassuring each other that their valid and the things that they feel are fine even though it hasn't always been that way.
Also @autumnhearth definitely agree with your post
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I can't watch Daniel and Depression- initially I felt shook up but also really proud of him, but then days passed and this deeply upset feeling lingered. I was like wow my response isn't healthy and I actually ended up leaving the phandom for a few months. I've been wary about solo Dan vids since, I skip them if I think they're going to set me off like that again.

I think it's because like probably most people here I'm big on escapism, and for years my primary form of escapism has been watching/thinking of Dan and Phil. It all hinges on them having this really happy life together. And D&D kind of challenged that idea, and that hurt me a lot. It took me a while, but I've managed to reconcile the idea of Dan having depression with my perception of their life together.

I didn't find the Mukbang vid confronting in that way though. We all know know to recognise the feelings behind Dan's depression jokes, but to not necessarily take the words literally. (He doesn't Literally want death etc). I believe he's doing a lot better. From personal experience it would be unrealistic to expect the road from depression not to have dips. Thankfully they're nowhere near as bad as being depressed is. They're not like permanent, blackness tainting every happy moment awful. I found a lot of what he was saying really positive <3. Also there was so much cute stuff in the vid!!
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Thank you @flarequake and @itasca00 for answering my queries. :love1: :ribena:

Again not jiving with the current mood of the chat :oops: (I always seem to do this), but one of the things that I took away from the video that I haven't seen discussed here was Phil telling Dan to just get the next thing in line when it comes to clothes (even if it was a joke). As someone who's always never had the eye for general aesthetics and particularly clothing coordination (I find it really hard to determine whether something is straight or if stuff matches or goes well together or if it's symmetrical), I was comforted by Phil saying that because that's what I literally do. I get so much anxiety picking clothes that I removed that source of anxiety by just lining up my clothes in the order they were laundered, and I just pick the next item of clothing in line (barring of course events where there's an appropriate way of dressing, like formal occasions, etc.). So I'm not sure if he does it, but at least it's validating to know someone else does consider the idea even if it was said in a joking manner. :ribena:

With regard to "putting on masks" in front of people, isn't it a thing everyone does? Like don't people necessarily adjust to whoever they're with? Even with the closest people i have in my life, there's certain "masks" I put on. Like I'm more polite when I'm speaking with my elders and very casual when I speak to people my age or younger than me. But both aspects are part of me. I actually found Dan saying "I have no personality" interesting because it's something I've said to friends irl when we've had this topic of conversation. But I took it to mean the way I mean it, in the sense that, I think a person doesn't have a "fixed" personality. I mean, isn't just knowingly not doing something you would want to do that could displease someone close to you already putting up a mask? That's how I take it anyway. Although it's a topic of conversation that's dangerous to have (I have a friend who got mad at me when I asked her opinion about that topic because the way she took it was me being fake with her). But I don't really think putting up a mask is being disingenuous, as long as a person is not lying or making the other people believe in something that doesn't exist. For me, it's just a coping mechanism. I'm not articulating myself well, but I hope someone gets what I'm trying to say. :?
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