Dan & Phil Part 80: You're my plinth of life

[lilabet]

I feel kind of bad about how annoyed i was with them yesterday. Yes the delay and lack of communication is annoying but they were so proud and happy and probably just wanted to celebrate in the live show.

I’ve sent an email to D&P shop to ask when they’ll ship. Let’s see if I get the same date or not.

[gnostic]

I feel kind of bad about how annoyed i was with them yesterday. Yes the delay and lack of communication is annoying but they were so proud and happy and probably just wanted to celebrate in the live show.

I’ve sent an email to D&P shop to ask when they’ll ship. Let’s see if I get the same date or not.

See, it's this sort of attitude that made me realise i will never belong on this forum (btw not trying to call you out and hopefully this will not offend you, I am just Expressing my bewilderment).

Dan and Phil are both owners and representatives of the brand. The brand recently repeatedly fucked up massively and they were horrible in customer care about that. Why on Earth would you feel bad for feeling annoyed about that?

[Ablissa]

This is an interesting discussion (and made me go on a LONG ramble oops sorry). Putting some of this monstrosity of a post under a cut because it's long af.

I fall somewhere between @lilabet and @gnostic and this makes me think about how youtubers in general are perceived by their fans. Due to the nature of a youtuber's "job", a lot of us view them as friends, or at least people we are closer to than say, a famous actor or singer.
We feel like we are a part of their lives - which in a way, the fanbase definitely is - and tend to treat them differently than we would a worldwide celeb.

For Dan and Phil, their fanbase is definitely more than just a way of making money and it's clear they care about us a lot - I mean, this is their whole life. They are happy about their accomplishments, and usually happy to interact with us as well - this shows a lot when they tell us about some new project etc, they're passionate about this and about delivering it to us. Regardless of their somewhat skewed perception of "giving the people what they want", I genuinely believe they want to give us what we like and still find pleasure in doing that.
They are also balancing a fine line between what we want and what they want to give us, which is why some of us are disappointed sometimes.

Due to all that, I totally get where @lilabet is coming from.
I often feel bad for them in situations like these: when something goes wrong, it's most likely not their fault. They expected us to be happy, and also wanted to be happy about it as well. Again, this is the creator + fanbase interaction that you don't get with full on celebs who have a team of people doing stuff for them. D&P do most things themselves, so when something falls out of their hands, it's not easy to directly blame them, but then...

They are businessmen at this point. They run a business, have gone on two world tours, have some sort of management and a PA. They attend business meetings with various companies and try to connect their vision with what will sell well. They sometimes make videos because it's the right thing to make money wise (spons or as mentioned earlier, Sims in December). And there is nothing wrong with that - youtube is literally their job.

I guess it all comes down to connecting these two images of Dan and Phil - our "friends", creators we feel like we know really well - and two guys making a living off this job that makes us think they're close to us. Which in many ways they are, but still. It's a job, and with a job come expectations.

I think it's okay to feel bitter about something not working out as promised. I think they do need to get better about speaking up, because people pay them money for these things, so there is a responsibility and obligation. They're not doing us a favor by releasing new merch or a dvd or whatever, this is their job and a product we buy.

But they also love it and feel proud of it, so I agree that being too severe on them may feel harsh. This is why I felt a bit bad for Dan when Phil's merch got so much more love than Dan's, and yes it was irrational and I'm sure Dan didn't care much, but they're proud of their projects and I want them to always feel loved by their audience. This is because I care about them on a more personal level, because of the nature of their job and relationship with the audience.

Personally, I just want them to learn to communicate with us when things get messed up and let us know in advance, that's all I want. I'm okay with them not being perfect, I just want them to learn from past mistakes.

[CapriciousCrab]

For me, it comes down to communication.
I don't hold them responsible for things outside of their control-venue issues, DVD release dates, etc. But their communication skills are often pretty shit, which is a shame because a simple acknowledgement of people's disappointment can really go a long way toward changing the general mood. Telling people to just avoid his Twitter until they get their DVD is not how you should handle it.

[Ataraxia25]

For me, it comes down to communication.
I don't hold them responsible for things outside of their control-venue issues, DVD release dates, etc. But their communication skills are often pretty shit, which is a shame because a simple acknowledgement of people's disappointment can really go a long way toward changing the general mood. Telling people to just avoid his Twitter until they get their DVD is not how you should handle it.

+1.
I am aware that the delay doesn't come from them directly but they have been ignoring our questions about it for a while now and that's not okay for me. Especially about the "avoid my twitter" comment! i was actually too angry last night to talk about it. You can't say stuff like that! Especially when you've been advertising your product as "available worldwide" for months.
hello boys, if you're not sure it will be, then don't spend months advertising your product in a particular way.

[gnostic]

For me, it comes down to communication.
I don't hold them responsible for things outside of their control-venue issues, DVD release dates, etc. But their communication skills are often pretty shit, which is a shame because a simple acknowledgement of people's disappointment can really go a long way toward changing the general mood. Telling people to just avoid his Twitter until they get their DVD is not how you should handle it.

+1.
I am aware that the delay doesn't come from them directly but they have been ignoring our questions about it for a while now and that's not okay for me. Especially about the "avoid my twitter" comment! i was actually too angry last night to talk about it. You can't say stuff like that! Especially when you've been advertising your product as "available worldwide" for months.
hello boys, if you're not sure it will be, then don't spend months advertising your product in a particular way.

Runs afoul of at least two consumer regulations, too!

Idk, in this particular regard I don't see much difference between youtubers and singers or reality shows stars who are really connected to their audience. They made a contract with us. They took our money. I love them, but they have the exact same responsibilities to me as any business. Christmas delays are a big deal for an item that is likely to be used as a present. Lack of advertised commentaries is literally a substantial failure of product to deliver.

Meanwhile, fucking lookfantastic (UK beauty retail site) is over here grovelling at my feet because my £6 burt's bees lip balm set is five days late.

It really grinds my gears where merch or another product is screwed up, and youtubers act all jokey and minimising about it AND you get a tsunami of stans attacking you for daring to criticise (which happened to me on YouTube).

[lilabet]

I'm definitely still annoyed as I ended up accidentally buying the electronic version as well to get the commentary and it wasn't on there. Now I still do t have it and spoilers are popping up. Them simply saying in the liveshow that something has caused a delay would have appeased me even if they couldn't give the exact date things will be shipped.

My main thing is that they are much closer to the criticism therefore I'm more willing to tone down my annoyance.
With a standard business it's not personal but they get bombarded in comments and as they interact with us directly they are much more likely to see it and get overwhelmed/feel bad. For traditional celebrities they are much more distanced online and have social media managers so they wouldn't see it as much.

I suppose I'm thinking about the impact of my complaints, yes I have the right to bitch and moan but would I do it to their face? If they see it it's not the same as moaning to a friend in a private conversation. Tweeting my disappointment is like putting it in the newspaper. I'm trying to not contribute to the cancelled/pile on culture as well. (Not that I'm saying any of you are)

Times like this the fourth wall being in place would be great but I suppose that's what IDB is in a way.

[liola]

I ended up ordering the dvd anyway hoping I would get it in time for Christmas and told myself I wanted it ajyway, got so annoyed at myself I accidentally bought it with a two day delivery from Amazon. 35 euro gone like this.

I'm with @gnostic, I've been complaining on Twitter and @ them for days now. They're not personally delaying the shipments or not releasing it worldwide, they sold the rights and the distribution is out of their hands. We know. I'm asking for them to say something about it, even a tweet with emoji at this point would be good, and not just ignore it. Even if they said they have no idea, and that it's iTunes/Amazon/BBC doing, I'll take that. But the full on ignoring the issue is just bad, it makes them look unprofessional kids selling an item for the first time. They're not that, they're experienced business men with a full team. The product hell the brand has their name and their faces on it. They gotta own to it

[itasca00]

I just finished listening to the Interactive Introverts directors' commentary, and, boy, do I have some thoughts and feelings! I know most people don't have access to the directors' commentary yet, so I'm a little hesitant posting this now. However, I feel that, if I don't write something down, I might explode! I've written my top-line reactions below. I think my observations are fairly high-level, and I think reading them will just give you a general sense of what to expect from the commentary. But I'd definitely skip them if you (like me) want to go into the commentary with a completely blank slate.

• Wow, that was a journey! I was taking notes throughout, so it took me a good five hours to get the whole way through.
• As one might expect, a lot of the stories told and feelings expressed in the commentary have already been hinted at or shared in liveshows and at the movie premiere. However, there's a lot more detail in the commentary about what's already been shared, and there's obviously a ton of new stuff as well.
• Phil's humor was on point in the commentary. The random places his mind went and stories he chose to tell often had me laughing out loud!
  • Complete spoiler below. Don't read unless you've listened to the commentary or don't care.
    The Phil moment that stands out most to me is Phil's very firm insistence that he was going to talk about the showers at the venues no matter what. He wanted us all to know that there were often group showers and that he and Dan showered at the venues. But they did not partake in group showers...with their crew. According to Phil, this is unlike the experience of some other touring shows.
• My impression is that Dan seems to have tried really, really hard to be sincere in the commentary. His general attitude reminds me of the attitude he had in the mukbang. Actually, the overall feeling of this commentary feels very similar to that of the mukbang for me.
  • Dan's pride in this show seems to know no bounds. His praise for how well things were done is so over-the-top that it's almost comical! (Spoilery comment below.)
    Phil even commented on Dan's attitude. Dan said that his self-esteem is low so often that they're allowed to talk about something they did that's good.
    I didn't mind this (especially given the comment in the spoiler above), but it was very jarring coming from Dan, the king of self-deprecating humor.
  • Over and over and over again, Dan brings up the central theme of Interactive Introverts--giving the people what they want--along with what the point of each segment of the show is supposed to be. I have to say that all of these comments taught me a lot about the way Dan thinks (in general, and especially about his creations). Unfortunately, his philosophy makes no fucking sense to me. Different statements or inferences he made at different points in the commentary seem to completely contradict each other. I'll be very interested to see what the discussion of this philosophy looks like here on IDB.
• A ton of outstanding questions I had about how things worked behind the scenes were answered in the commentary. For this reason and so many others, I was definitely left feeling emotionally satisfied.
• Okay, and now I'll finish with two IDB-specific spoilers:
  • IMDb was mentioned twice. The first time, it was completely out of the blue, and it was referenced by Dan like, "IMDb trivia. Someone do it," while he was talking about an Easter egg in the show. For a split second, I was certain that he was talking about us.
  • Dan reveals that he's a part of like six fandoms, and Phil asks him if he's on "the forums." Dan laughs (really) awkwardly and makes a joke about forums still being around in 2018. D Slice sounded just a wee bit evasive to me.

Overall, I can't wait for everyone to listen to the directors' commentary! I think it will give us all a lot to discuss.

[Amiaw]

I just finished listening to the Interactive Introverts directors' commentary, and, boy, do I have some thoughts and feelings! I know most people don't have access to the directors' commentary yet, so I'm a little hesitant posting this now. However, I feel that, if I don't write something down, I might explode! I've written my top-line reactions below. I think my observations are fairly high-level, and I think reading them will just give you a general sense of what to expect from the commentary. But I'd definitely skip them if you (like me) want to go into the commentary with a completely blank slate.

[*]Phil's humor was on point in the commentary. The random places his mind went and stories he chose to tell often had me laughing out loud!

• Complete spoiler below. Don't read unless you've listened to the commentary or don't care.
  The Phil moment that stands out most to me is Phil's very firm insistence that he was going to talk about the showers at the venues no matter what. He wanted us all to know that there were often group showers and that he and Dan showered at the venues. But they did not partake in group showers...with their crew. According to Phil, this is unlike the experience of some other touring shows.

These spoilers make me wish I had my dvd already.

I do have a question about Phil's shower statement. Was he implying that the crew took group showers without dnp or was he saying that dnp took group showers without the crew-as in just the 2 of them? And what was Dan's reaction to this anecdote?

[autumnhearth]

Just wanted to say that I love the festive header! Agreed on the communication being the most important thing lacking and the one they can control. I do feel badly for people in other countries though.

[Ataraxia25]

[alittledizzy]

I love those jumpers and their continued friendship with Mimei (and Duncan). I wonder if Dan and Phil send them Christmas presents too? I feel like Phil's the type to want to make sure and send something to anyone (that they know) that gets them something.

[knq]

continuing the director's commentary spoiler discussion

[*]Over and over and over again, Dan brings up the central theme of Interactive Introverts--giving the people what they want--along with what the point of each segment of the show is supposed to be. I have to say that all of these comments taught me a lot about the way Dan thinks (in general, and especially about his creations). Unfortunately, his philosophy makes no fucking sense to me.

oh thank god. I listened to the commentary last night but as the shipping is a bit of a fiasco I didn't have anyone to talk with about it. I still don't want to spoil any specifics because I feel like it's a special experience to discover them as you watch.

But Dan explaining the theme of II: I felt like I came out of it understanding much more how the thing they created relates to the themes Dan was talking about in bed in the WITL, but also like nothing makes any sense. I feel like I watched a particularly frustrating old Dan live-show, except for 2 hours. Every time he said "we're joking" I wanted to cry. I did not ask for this, Dan Howell. I just wanted to have a fun and wholesome time.

I kind of knew that might happen. I've always been aware that they recorded the dc at a time when Dan was still posting Instagrams about filling the "hole" with bread and coming down from the tour high, and I know my own depression is sensitive to his and other people's experience of depression. I watched it knowing that and it still left me as conflicted as the Mukbang. You are correct that it has a similar feel.

I think part of it, for me, is that Dan continues to be fascinated by the fact that different people are... different. I don't know why he finds that hard to wrap his head around, but it's something I've noticed from him that hasn't really changed over the years of his content. Whenever Dan discovers that there is no single right and true opinion that all people (in his audience or in the world) hold, whether it's about if his hat is a hipster hat in 2011 or his audience finds his pain funny in 2018, Dan's mind is blown. And mine isn't. So I'm sitting over here going "... Yeah? And?" and I'm looking for that deeper meaning that Dan seems to see but it feels as if I haven't found it because I'm not fascinated by it the way he is. It's just that something that has a deep meaning to Dan doesn't for me. But man, it's still frustrating to watch. I'm still looking for that deeper meaning even though I know I've already found it.

Obviously I'm still trying to work it out!

There are some very sweet and honest moments in the commentary that I love but also don't want to spoil for anyone because they're so much more special if you hear them organically. Even when Dan is being frustrating, he and Phil are lovely to listen to together.

An homage to the chaotic release of the DVD: Dan spons the physical copy of II in the director's commentary... which only comes with the physical copy of II.

[flarequake]

Their friendship with Mimei and Duncan is sweet, didn’t they even buy Tabinof themselves before Deps sent them a copy? Just seeing their faces, I wondered what was so special about that photo that they posted it, I mean it’s cute, but they’re not usually not bothered. I only saw the dinos and on opening Instagram, the pastel is cute.

[alittledizzy]

I wanted to make this point but I don't want to just regurgitate someone else's thoughts so embedding the post:

I really agree with this. I don't want to see them remake anything; I think the things that they're most excited about and the things that we are more receptive to are the new things. The pumpkin carving, the mukbang - those were genuinely fun videos to me. While I do want baking, I'd actually be okay forfeiting that in favor of them trying out something new and festive in a video.

[missemma]

For me, it comes down to communication.
I don't hold them responsible for things outside of their control-venue issues, DVD release dates, etc. But their communication skills are often pretty shit, which is a shame because a simple acknowledgement of people's disappointment can really go a long way toward changing the general mood. Telling people to just avoid his Twitter until they get their DVD is not how you should handle it.

Yup 100% agree with this. I am annoyed at them, not that it’ll matter to them because ultimately they’ve still made their money. They could have easily just have said in the liveshow last night “we are sorry, there are issues we aren’t sure what they are yet” rather than just being so blase about it and ignore the many many tweets and questions. They’re the directors of that shop, no excuse about “they don’t know/it’s out of their control” cuts it for me. I hope they were excited still, I would have liked to have joined in with their excitement but with no idea where my money has gone and no word from them about when it was meant to be coming just ruined it all for me. They would have had so many more excited fans had they just said sorry.

I got bored of waiting for them to say anything so tweeted Martyn, his reply:

[flarequake]

+1 to that, also I don’t think they have any future ditl plans, they haven’t done one in over a year, though I may be wrong, a new place or theme would be great, it’s cute if they’re happy to revisit something small like the first selfie, having to change their hair and react to the old photo gave it something new, but they can’t just manufacture what we loved about something 5 years later.

[starwatersong]

Apparently a fan’s idea (yay!).

[flarequake]

That is so cute and he does suit that colour. The blue seems too pale on Phil imo, I have that problem too, bright or dark colours all the way.

[Stakhanov]

+1 ot @Ablissa 's post I fall somewhere in between the lines too. I guess we expect consistent and professional communication out of them even though they aren't communication professionals. They ought to pay the same level of respect to their communication as they do to getting a talent agency or PA though. We ask a lot of them as people, but then they also get unusually well rewarded and appreciated.

[Ablissa]

So now that it's confirmed, it would be great if (LOVE the festive banner and emoticons btw!) would address the matter too. A tweet from Martyn is nice, thanks @missemma, but that's hardly something a lot of people follow so they need to make an announcement, like... Now?

Speaking of announcements... *smooth Phil-style segue*

We're hosting our next IDB Watch Fest this Sunday, December 16th (1 PM and 7 PM UTC). This one will be festive themed!
We will watch the festive DITL (duh) and we need to pick out some more videos to watch as well.

Please come and vote if you're going to join us! Join in the discussion if you have more to say too: viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1531&start=175

Currently voting for:
- Videos to watch during our festive watch fest: https://www.strawpoll.me/17026984 (you can pick more than one)
- Using rabb.it vs going back to our old format for this watch fest: https://www.strawpoll.me/17027001

Hope to see you there!

[obsessivelymoody]

[Ataraxia25]

wow they can't imagine how much i need this right now

thanks boys

[pcvaidya]

you know what I would have preferred to dilmas?

An epic 5 day Dan vs Phil tournament where they finally declare a winner. Then they can clear the board and start over. Or just play against each other for increasingly ridiculous prizes.