liola wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:55 pm
@Stakhanov and @Nevermind I'm gonna reply to both of you here: you're looking at the situation with the numbers he has NOW.
Now people don't go about danrific with the same numbers because well, maybe because they barely interact anymore.
But back in the day, considering how smaller their audience was compared to now, and how many interactions there were between Dan and Phil and Cat, it wasn't the exact same but it was pretty divided. People wrote fics, people commented danrific vs phan under their collabs, people made edits and up until a couple of years ago people tagged Dan in edits with him and Cat.
You don't get to pick and choose my friends.
From the very earliest days they talked on skype and tweeted and dailyboothed etc, there have been Phan comments. I don't find the danrific or phimmy ship at all comparable with how phan has influenced them and the tone of the fandom at large. I'm not looking at the situation and numbers now, I'm talking about the whole of interactions within the fandom at large. The actual irl relationship between them isn't the same either, or the effort they had previously put in clarifying their own position. So if your really think danrific and phan were equivalent at the the time of the writing of the blog (let alone now), you are free to pick and choose your opinion but I'm not convinced. They are not equivalent.
Ablissa wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:03 pm
Wow, I'm not sure why I'm doing this to myself and even reading this whole discussion, but I did so I might as well reply.
@Stakhanov and @Nevermind I feel like you are missing the point. If you don't think his remarks were homophobic, more power to you, but
that doesn't make your opinion the only right one. I would wager that the majority of us here would say that Dan used homophobic language.
You're dismissing a real issue (homophobia) as people being upset about their ship not being 'real'. Are you sure this is what you want to come off as?
Yes, he lashed out at the shippers and that's why he said those things, but no one is questioning that. No one is saying that the fans weren't 'at fault'. What everyone is trying to tell you is that
for most people, the language he used was homophobic.
I don't believe any of us here are trying to condemn Dan of
right now. It was a period of time when he was under a lot of stress, and he definitely grew up and hasn't spoken like this in several years. But that doesn't erase history and does not justify the way he spoke back then. We know why he did it, but that doesn't make it okay.
I guess what I'm trying to say is - stop
dismissing something serious by blaming it on the 'crazed shippers' interpreting it 'the wrong way'. Him denying phan has NOTHING to do with the questionable wording he used to do it.
You don't get to choose what offends other people. You don't get to choose what hurts other people.
I feel like I have answered all of these points before, and I don't know why you are doing this to yourself but it must be that you want to because nobody is forcing you to reply.
I'll reply out of politeness but I'd ask you to reread my answers because the bolded parts are in contradiction with stuff i typed in previous posts or never claimed.
And I have to go soonish. I can't properly reply to everyone on the forum and i'm well aware this opinion will be in the minority here.
->Never claimed that and have painstakingly made that point multiple times now. My opinion is but my opinion. Your opinion is but your opinion. Majority opinion is but majority opinion. All i can do I explain my opinion, and gives reasons why I think accusing Dan of homophobia is misguided.
-> I explicitly said homophobia is a real issue in society. One I experience and suffer from myself. Not that being part of a minority group makes you the only legitimate voice when talking about a concept. However, as defined and understood in broader society, I don't think Dan remarks qualify as homophobic especially taking into account context which one should always do imo.
-> I have already said that people can find it subjectively homophobic or not and that at most you can claim that most people find a certain joke or phrase homophobic. In this case I would debate that claim - at least when you consider opinions outside this forum and fandom which is a bubble in itself.
-> Again I'm not dismissing anything serious. I simply don't think his posts constitute something serious as homophobia.
-> I have talked at length about offense and hurt and people's right to feel however they feel. And how subjective feelings of them are different from labeling things people do as homophobic.
Have a good day and if you find the discussion unbearably stressful, I can only suggest you skip it. I sure plan on doing the same, this is just a difference of opinion after all.