Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by gnostic » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:08 pm

liola wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:38 pm
What do you count as "dying" youtubers? Because let's be real, their peak on youtube has long and gone just like for the majority of people. And that is normal. They're not the exception, I don't even think it would be fair to hold them to that kind of expectation.

If they wanted to play the algorithm game, they could. They have decided that they don't want to, which is something that has been pretty clear for a while now. And I don't know how many times I will have to say that the majority of the money from Youtube don't come off views alone but rather engagememnt. And they're STILL winning the engagement game, they truly are.

I've heard so many times the "DnP are dying / DnP aren't relevant anymore" that I decided to take an hour off my work and do an analysis of their engagement compared to some of the thriving youtubers at the time.
Let's look at some of the channels that are thriving on youtube right now.

Markiplier is one of the youtubers on the front, was listed as one of the 10 richest youtubers from 2018, and has indeed a very enngaged community. Currently has 23M subs. I'm going to pull out the numbers from Youtube itself, because Social Blade only focus on views and subs which doesn't give information on the engagement.

It seems like, exceptions on the side, his videos get an average of 1.5-2M views.

I took a random video from a week ago, "THE 'OL TYRANT SWITCHEROO | Resident Evil 2 - Part 4" currently sitting at 1.134700 views. It's a series, you'd think the majority of those views come from people that have already watched the other parts, so it's recurrent views - typically people that have a higher level of interest on the creator and the content than the random casual viewer.

5% circa of his total subs have watched the video. It has 28.4K likes, so the 2.5% of the viewers liked the video. Out of this 1.1M viewers, there's 4.623 comments, so around the 0.4% of the viewers, that again we're assuming are mostly made out of returning viewers with a higher interest, have left a comment - which is what we count as engagement.

Let's take a video with a higher viewcount and NOT part of a video just to compare:

"Try Not To Laugh Challenge #18" - 6.345.373 views, 3 weeks ago. 28% of his total viewers.

It has around 300K likes, less than 5% of the viewers that watched. 26.345 comments = again around 0.4% of engagement. And this is for a thriving youtuber.

Let's look at Safiya's - who is in between casual vlog content and beauty guru videos (which are on top of the most watched type of videos)

She currently has 7.205.511 subscribers. Her most recent video - after a brief hiatus - has 3.419.536 views. Almost 50% of her total subscribers, although she's often on the trending page so those number can be pretty skewed, so let's just focus on the engagement.

Out of the 3.4M of views, there's around 150K likes, more or less the 4%. There's 24.263 comments, around the 0.8% of engagement (i'm rounding up)

The video before that has a whopping 12.406.878 views (and was posted on Christmas' eve). Considering the like ratio of 500K, we have again a 4% ratio which is starting to look like the normal ratio.
The video has 63860 comments, which is slightly more than the 0.5% of enagement - again, seems like the norm.

For shit and jiggles I ended up looking at Jake paul's numbers which is something I never thought I would do. I took the highest views video of last week, "LAST TO FALL IN TOXIC POOL WINS $50,000!! (GAME)" with 6.776.815 (40% of his total sub count). It has a likes ratio of 160k, around 2.5% of the views.
It has 18688 comments, slighly above 0.25% of the engagement.

Now let's look at Phil's channel. Let's look at the last video, since this one is too recent and went through a late posting + a change of title and thumbnail so we gotta settle down.

"Time For A Change" first video in months, attractive title and thumbnail.

It has 861.235 views, which is around the 20% of his total sub count of 4.2M. Out of this 20% of views, we have 124K likes, so between the 14 amd 15% of the views.
It has 13.296 comments, so around the 1.5% of the views. Hm. Looks like an above than average engagement!

Let's look at one of his most popular uploads from before tour, solo (yes, I know, time factor is important to consider compared to Safiya and Markiplier but we gotta work with what we got)

"My viewers choose my outfit", 2.585.918 views. More than 50% of the total sub count. Out of this, we have 216.376 likes, slightly less than the 9% of the views.
We have 27.215 comments, so an engagement of 1.1%.

Let's watch at PINOF 10 now, a recent video and the most recent joint content on Phil's channel. We know its views are basically all engaged viewers. We also know videos with Dan in general give Phil more views.

PINOF10 has 1.744.564 views. Slightly more than 40% of the subs. It has around 215K likes, so between 12-13% of the video views.
It also has 23671 comments, so again an engagement of around 1.4% - as expected, higher than a solo video.

If we look at these numbers, they might be dying in terms of totals views, but the % they're pulling will always be higher than what we consider higher youtubers. And the community is what other "more successful" youtubers envy them for, not the amount of times their videos end up in the trending page.
Tl;dr: they might be "dying" in terms of totals views, but the % they're pulling will always be higher than what we consider higher youtubers, hell even Jake Paul. And the community is what other "more successful" youtubers envy them for, not the amount of times their videos end up in the trending page.
It's really unfair to compare Dan and Phil to someone like Mark.

There are different styles of YouTube content and Mark's content is uploading vast amount of videos, naturally assuming most of his subs won't watch all of them (few people have that kind of time) and will instead pick and choose as interested. Mark uploads lengthy videos every day. Or short videos two times a day not infrequently.

At this point Danny boy is more like Jontron, lol. Uploading twice a year with desperate fan base rewatching over and over.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by Stakhanov » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:28 pm

Yes, I like you're thinking @liola I'm going to extend my lunch break too for more analysis :lol: ;)

It's clear that their community is what sets them apart from other popular youtubers. What made the community so strong and so resilient despite them not having the most original or plentiful content really is worth it's own thread. I think fundamentally it's just reflective of how communities at large tend to work. They tend to drive and maintain themselves. Once you regularly talk about youtubers with other people, have stan accounts, write fanfic, or look at them as shiny beacons of representation for ideas you cherish you're not easily going to just leave that imagined community.

Don't throw rocks at me but after years of observation I'm convinced that Dan and Phil have built a significant captivated audience that comes back because they represent an ideal. The perfect couple. The pure cinnamon bun. The sad nerd. It doesn't really matter what are the facts, and i don't think they really intended to become these paragons of True Gay Love TM, but I sense these are the reasons that at least a a good chunk of people tend to stick with them and I think it's both a blessing and a curse to them, because it means they can afford a lot of liberties other big youtubers can't but it also keeps them locked in a box of expectations and really provides a strong disincentive to change.
Some folks are born made to wave the flag
Ooh, they're red, white and blue
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief"
Ooh, they point the cannon at you
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son
It ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by alittledizzy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:08 pm

I'm actually gonna quote this out of spoiler tags because I think it's very worth the read.
liola wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:38 pm
What do you count as "dying" youtubers? Because let's be real, their peak on youtube has long and gone just like for the majority of people. And that is normal. They're not the exception, I don't even think it would be fair to hold them to that kind of expectation.

If they wanted to play the algorithm game, they could. They have decided that they don't want to, which is something that has been pretty clear for a while now. And I don't know how many times I will have to say that the majority of the money from Youtube don't come off views alone but rather engagememnt. And they're STILL winning the engagement game, they truly are.

I've heard so many times the "DnP are dying / DnP aren't relevant anymore" that I decided to take an hour off my work and do an analysis of their engagement compared to some of the thriving youtubers at the time.

Let's look at some of the channels that are thriving on youtube right now.

Markiplier is one of the youtubers on the front, was listed as one of the 10 richest youtubers from 2018, and has indeed a very enngaged community. Currently has 23M subs. I'm going to pull out the numbers from Youtube itself, because Social Blade only focus on views and subs which doesn't give information on the engagement.

It seems like, exceptions on the side, his videos get an average of 1.5-2M views.

I took a random video from a week ago, "THE 'OL TYRANT SWITCHEROO | Resident Evil 2 - Part 4" currently sitting at 1.134700 views. It's a series, you'd think the majority of those views come from people that have already watched the other parts, so it's recurrent views - typically people that have a higher level of interest on the creator and the content than the random casual viewer.

5% circa of his total subs have watched the video. It has 28.4K likes, so the 2.5% of the viewers liked the video. Out of this 1.1M viewers, there's 4.623 comments, so around the 0.4% of the viewers, that again we're assuming are mostly made out of returning viewers with a higher interest, have left a comment - which is what we count as engagement.

Let's take a video with a higher viewcount and NOT part of a video just to compare:

"Try Not To Laugh Challenge #18" - 6.345.373 views, 3 weeks ago. 28% of his total viewers.

It has around 300K likes, less than 5% of the viewers that watched. 26.345 comments = again around 0.4% of engagement. And this is for a thriving youtuber.

Let's look at Safiya's - who is in between casual vlog content and beauty guru videos (which are on top of the most watched type of videos)

She currently has 7.205.511 subscribers. Her most recent video - after a brief hiatus - has 3.419.536 views. Almost 50% of her total subscribers, although she's often on the trending page so those number can be pretty skewed, so let's just focus on the engagement.

Out of the 3.4M of views, there's around 150K likes, more or less the 4%. There's 24.263 comments, around the 0.8% of engagement (i'm rounding up)

The video before that has a whopping 12.406.878 views (and was posted on Christmas' eve). Considering the like ratio of 500K, we have again a 4% ratio which is starting to look like the normal ratio.
The video has 63860 comments, which is slightly more than the 0.5% of enagement - again, seems like the norm.

For shit and jiggles I ended up looking at Jake paul's numbers which is something I never thought I would do. I took the highest views video of last week, "LAST TO FALL IN TOXIC POOL WINS $50,000!! (GAME)" with 6.776.815 (40% of his total sub count). It has a likes ratio of 160k, around 2.5% of the views.
It has 18688 comments, slighly above 0.25% of the engagement.

Now let's look at Phil's channel. Let's look at the last video, since this one is too recent and went through a late posting + a change of title and thumbnail so we gotta settle down.

"Time For A Change" first video in months, attractive title and thumbnail.

It has 861.235 views, which is around the 20% of his total sub count of 4.2M. Out of this 20% of views, we have 124K likes, so between the 14 amd 15% of the views.
It has 13.296 comments, so around the 1.5% of the views. Hm. Looks like an above than average engagement!

Let's look at one of his most popular uploads from before tour, solo (yes, I know, time factor is important to consider compared to Safiya and Markiplier but we gotta work with what we got)

"My viewers choose my outfit", 2.585.918 views. More than 50% of the total sub count. Out of this, we have 216.376 likes, slightly less than the 9% of the views.
We have 27.215 comments, so an engagement of 1.1%.

Let's watch at PINOF 10 now, a recent video and the most recent joint content on Phil's channel. We know its views are basically all engaged viewers. We also know videos with Dan in general give Phil more views.

PINOF10 has 1.744.564 views. Slightly more than 40% of the subs. It has around 215K likes, so between 12-13% of the video views.
It also has 23671 comments, so again an engagement of around 1.4% - as expected, higher than a solo video.

If we look at these numbers, they might be dying in terms of totals views, but the % they're pulling will always be higher than what we consider higher youtubers. And the community is what other "more successful" youtubers envy them for, not the amount of times their videos end up in the trending page.
Also, unrelated to the above post:
Stakhanov wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:28 pm
Once you regularly talk about youtubers with other people, have stan accounts, write fanfic, or look at them as shiny beacons of representation for ideas you cherish you're not easily going to just leave that imagined community.
I disagree too fundamentally with the rest of your post to be worth refuting, but I do want to point out - what you're describing here is an actual community, not an imagined one.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by Stakhanov » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:52 pm

@alittledizzy

There's a semantic misunderstanding here about the word 'imagined'. I don't mean to say the internet community around Dan and Phil or the 'phandom' or whatever we call it, is imagined in the sense that its "not real". The imagined community I'm talking about is an adaptation of the concept used by Anderson when he describs the formation (through media) of nations and political communities. Because I think the type of community we're talking about has similarities with how (political) communities at large operate. The fact it's "imagined" doesn't mean it's purely fantastical, it's a characteristic of the 'real' type of digital community the fandom is, a social construct that has developed on the internet and 'lives' through social media as part of the networked public sphere.
It's a bit like parasocial relationships. They are 'real' social relationships in one sense but share a certain set of characteristics which makes them distinct from what we would ordinarily recognize as a social relationship.

To clarify, here's what Anderson means when he says nations are "imagined" though we all know they are very 'real' in many ways, and indeed many millions have died defending their imaginary borders and communities...

He defined a nation as "an imagined political community". As Anderson puts it, a nation "is imagined because the members of even the smallest nation will never know most of their fellow-members, meet them, or even hear of them, yet in the minds of each lives the image of their communion". Members of the community probably will never know each of the other members face to face; however, they may have similar interests or identify as part of the same nation. Members hold in their minds a mental image of their affinity: for example, the nationhood felt with other members of your nation when your "imagined community" participates in a larger event such as the Olympic Games.

Similarly, most within the fandom will never meet each other, or see Dan and Phil, yet they'll identify as being part of this 'phandom' and participate in events (pigeon fest, hyping videos, speculating about there whereabouts.,...).
Some folks are born made to wave the flag
Ooh, they're red, white and blue
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief"
Ooh, they point the cannon at you
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son
It ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by waveydnp » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm

Stakhanov wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 pm
Most disappointingly, his general behavior, tone and acting hasn't visibly changed. It looks like exactly the same old AmazingPhil channel to me.
his tone has definitely changed. it’s still AP but he’s mellowed a ton. his voice sounds a lot more natural and his laughs are genuine. his content hasn’t matured but there’s only been one real video this year. i think we can cut him a little bit of slack.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by vacule » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:48 pm

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Phil's content has to mature in any way. I think Phil has been fairly consistent about the kind of content he's been making for the past 10 years and he has always had that line between his personal life and what he shares on YouTube. He actually has never promised anything more or any big changes. While his audience may mature or find his content no longer appealing, I don't think Phil has ever seemed particularly interested in producing content to keep up with his viewers' interests.

So I think it's fair enough for people to find Phil's content immature or no longer appealing, but I don't think it's entirely fair to expect Phil to 'mature' or 'share more' or become anything less than he's always been.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by Amiaw » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:12 pm

vacule wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:48 pm
I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Phil's content has to mature in any way. I think Phil has been fairly consistent about the kind of content he's been making for the past 10 years and he has always had that line between his personal life and what he shares on YouTube. He actually has never promised anything more or any big changes. While his audience may mature or find his content no longer appealing, I don't think Phil has ever seemed particularly interested in producing content to keep up with his viewers' interests.

So I think it's fair enough for people to find Phil's content immature or no longer appealing, but I don't think it's entirely fair to expect Phil to 'mature' or 'share more' or become anything less than he's always been.
I agree with this to an extent. AP is always going to be quirky and lighthearted but I think there’s also a part of Phil that wants those big views - otherwise he wouldn’t jump on trends albiet late and ask members for video ideas.

I am liking the direction he’s going in with his personality on the channel but I think he could still make AP content that’s less shallow. AP will always be my happy place but there are only a handful of videos that I want to rewatch more than once. If he could find a way to balance his quirkiness and his whimsically with videos that give us something to think about it might help his channel

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by black_rat » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:18 pm

@liola I found your post super interesting!

I know you were talking about YouTube, but since now everybody also uses other platforms such as twitter, I am always astounded how many replies dan and Phil immediately get. I don't follow that many big YouTubers that I would know how Dan and Phil compare to others, but for example Safiya never gets that many replies/ hasn't as many follower on twitter. Or why does even Jenna Marbles have less twitter followers than Phil?

And why does Dan and Phil prefer to reply on twitter? I get that they probably feel like twitter comments are nicer than YouTube comments, or that they are more personally addressed on twitter, but wouldn't it make more sense for them to encourage people to write comments on YouTube? Does the engagement they have on twitter do much for them, from a business point of view?

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by Stakhanov » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:19 pm

waveydnp wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Stakhanov wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 pm
Most disappointingly, his general behavior, tone and acting hasn't visibly changed. It looks like exactly the same old AmazingPhil channel to me.
his tone has definitely changed. it’s still AP but he’s mellowed a ton. his voice sounds a lot more natural and his laughs are genuine. his content hasn’t matured but there’s only been one real video this year. i think we can cut him a little bit of slack.
I just rewatched the new video and "our past life animals" (the previous fiver vid) to see if I missed anything, but to me there's little difference. :shrug: The new vid is a monologue while "our past life animals" is a collab with Dan so ofc that changes the flow of the conversation a bit, but I find his tone and acting very similar. It's his choice alone to decide where he wants to take the channel and what he wants to share. I'm glad you find him more mellow, but I think this is still a long ways from the more personable, open Phil I hope he would change to.
Some folks are born made to wave the flag
Ooh, they're red, white and blue
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief"
Ooh, they point the cannon at you
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son
It ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by dancy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:12 pm

vacule wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:48 pm
I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Phil's content has to mature in any way. I think Phil has been fairly consistent about the kind of content he's been making for the past 10 years and he has always had that line between his personal life and what he shares on YouTube. He actually has never promised anything more or any big changes. While his audience may mature or find his content no longer appealing, I don't think Phil has ever seemed particularly interested in producing content to keep up with his viewers' interests.

So I think it's fair enough for people to find Phil's content immature or no longer appealing, but I don't think it's entirely fair to expect Phil to 'mature' or 'share more' or become anything less than he's always been.
I don't think his content has to "mature" necessarily but I do think he is capable of doing more, considering he's a creative, funny guy with a Master in Video Post-production. It's only his second video of the year, so I don't want to judge things too early but it isn't something that's doing great views-wise or took all too much effort and it doesn't have to but like I said, I think he has potential to do better things.

I don't know if/when the gaming channel is coming back, whether it'll be replaced with something else or what the future holds for D&P and for us in general but if they continue to produce little content for the next couple of months, I'd hope that whatever videos they do put out there are of good quality and not all that forgettable. That's not to bash Phil or this video at all btw, I enjoyed it but I'd just like to see him trying out new things, new filming styles or go the extra mile.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by liola » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:36 pm

black_rat wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:18 pm
@liola I found your post super interesting!

I know you were talking about YouTube, but since now everybody also uses other platforms such as twitter, I am always astounded how many replies dan and Phil immediately get. I don't follow that many big YouTubers that I would know how Dan and Phil compare to others, but for example Safiya never gets that many replies/ hasn't as many follower on twitter. Or why does even Jenna Marbles have less twitter followers than Phil?

And why does Dan and Phil prefer to reply on twitter? I get that they probably feel like twitter comments are nicer than YouTube comments, or that they are more personally addressed on twitter, but wouldn't it make more sense for them to encourage people to write comments on YouTube? Does the engagement they have on twitter do much for them, from a business point of view?
A lot of it has mostly to do with the perception of social platforms.

Because Youtube wasn't born as a social media and only morphed into it because of the way it was in use, the purpose of the comments was to do exactly that: to comment on the video, not to engage in conversations - which is why something that used to happen a lot was video responses shared between people.
At the same time, Facebook was always seen as a more personal platform, and Instagram was only about sharing picture so.. honestly, Twitter was the most obvious option - and Tumblr.

My opinion is that overtime, the immediacy that Twitter provides compared to Tumblr made it the perfect platform for the kind of communication that they want to have with the audience: short and without any real information, a way to engage with a very brief time span.

As to why other creators have less engagement on Twitter, I think the answer is pretty simple: they use other ways to communicate with the audience, and share a lot more about their personal lives in bits and bops on Youtube. And also, they have a less engaged community than Deppy. (I actually just realized I didn't include my queen Jenna in the analysis I am Ashamed and Sorry)

Doe the engagement on Twitter help on a business point of view? Eh. There isn't a real answer to that. Brands that want to sponsor them might appreciate the look of their followers and the engagement of theri Twitter profiles and sure it doesn't do any wrong, it all adds up. But I think that again the real advantage is the community, the hype that the fandom creates around them, and also - it's relatively impersonal, but it allows them to interact with others in a way that another socials don't provide as easily.

And a final note: the way you can see comments on youtube is even more fucked up than the Instagram timeline lol
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and how cute Phil Lester is.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by George » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:39 pm

Now that Dan has disappear to Bermuda triangle, I feel like there's much more pressure for Phil's content. If we're only getting bread crumbs, those better be some damn good bread crumbs. And let's be real, Phil's solo content has never really been phandom's favorite kind of bread, and now it shows. I get the feeling Phil sticks to his usual style because he's afraid to make more changes when all eyes are on him (and there has already been big changes). But sadly that just emphasize this isn't really what the people want nowadays. Which is tricky for Phil, Dan's radio silence is hardly his fault.

I believe he'd do better with changing more than his background. For example, he could have chosen much more interesting things to buy, Safiya wouldn't have bought just a simple, photoshopped Pikachu latte.... Like someone said, they should start put more effort in their videos.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by knq » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:41 pm

I wonder if the spiritual successor to Trying to Live My Truth might focus on gender rather than (or in addition to) sexuality. I've recently arm-wrestled Instagram into actually giving me notifications for Dan and Phil's activity, and Dan's likes seem overwhelmingly to be trans performers and drag queens.

Unrelated to that, I don't think Phil's content is immature. I looked up the Dolan twins on YT when @alittledizzy mentioned them being popular, and at the time their most recent video was a prank where one of them spray painted the other's fancy car. That's what I'd call immature (and also quite popular, so if we're discussing maturity in relation to YT relevance/popularity, I'm not convinced mature is what gets creators views). Phil's content is just fun and--this is where the maturity comes in--respectful. If you look at the kind of services offered on fiverr or the videos others have made using the website (p*wdi*pi*'s antisemitic 'joke' anybody?) it's pretty clear that Phil, like the mature little cinnamon bun he is, thought about and carefully vetted services that would be both harmless and enjoyable for his video.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by vacule » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:08 pm

Amiaw wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:12 pm
I agree with this to an extent. AP is always going to be quirky and lighthearted but I think there’s also a part of Phil that wants those big views - otherwise he wouldn’t jump on trends albiet late and ask members for video ideas.
Upon further reflection, I agree with you. I think you're definitely right in that he does want more views and does make some effort towards appealing to the mainstream audience. Apologies, I didn't word my thoughts correctly at all. What I meant to say was that I doubt he cares if his long-time fans want him to be more genuine on his channel or produce content that is more domestic or personal, even though there's a large and obvious push from the phandom in that direction. I suppose what I mean is, I don't really think that Phil cares if his old viewers outgrow his content, but he does try to attract new viewers.
dancy wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:12 pm
I don't think his content has to "mature" necessarily but I do think he is capable of doing more, considering he's a creative, funny guy with a Master in Video Post-production. It's only his second video of the year, so I don't want to judge things too early but it isn't something that's doing great views-wise or took all too much effort and it doesn't have to but like I said, I think he has potential to do better things.
I do agree with you. I think this recent video wasn't the most inspired or creative - nothing like Tour of My Brain - and far less interesting or engaging than his videos have the potential to be. I'm sure he has his reasons, e.g., wanting to get back into the schedule of posting without feeling too hung up on chasing perfection, just genuinely thinking this is good content etc and I think people definitely have the right to feel disappointed or not enjoy the content.

I guess my main point was that I don't necessarily relate to or agree with the idea that Phil has to become more mature or show more of his genuine personality - I feel that it's a bit entitled and not entirely realistic as none of us know Phil as a person in a personal context and are mostly projecting our own ideals and assumptions of Phil, his personality, his sexuality, his values etc and it seems unfair to me to get upset that Phil isn't inching any closer to our assumptions of him.

I don't mean this as an attack towards any one person, I'm sorry if it comes across that way! I was just reflecting on my own expectations of Phil as a fan.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by intoapuddle » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:29 pm

Putting on my tinhat to say that Phil's reason for changing the title/thumbnail was to appeal first to the phandom and second to the wider audience.

"A Psychic Analyses My Face" + the "liar?" felt like a direct call for the phandom as it suggests that the video goes deeper than it does. The change was meant for the wider audience that simply watches his videos / just for the title+thumbnail to be more in tune with what the video is actually about.

Don't take my word for it, though. It's just funny to me because yesterday I did have a thought that he might change the thumbnail, at least the "liar?" thing because it does subliminally draw attention to the big discussion surrounding him and Dan.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by apathy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:09 pm

Semi-related to relevancy talk: I think Markiplier does some (most?) of his gaming live on Twitch, then edits & uploads to YT. So some of the dedicated are probably watching & subscribing there, which is a nice way to get double the monthly subs/members. I think his Twitch chat is set to subscriber-only also.

Too bad Dan scoffed at the idea of Twitch streaming, not expecting they’ll go the same route. But it’s an interesting thought to take advantage of a different platform with very little extra effort.
That's my socializing quota for the month up.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by dancy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:24 pm

intoapuddle wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:29 pm
Putting on my tinhat to say that Phil's reason for changing the title/thumbnail was to appeal first to the phandom and second to the wider audience.

"A Psychic Analyses My Face" + the "liar?" felt like a direct call for the phandom as it suggests that the video goes deeper than it does. The change was meant for the wider audience that simply watches his videos / just for the title+thumbnail to be more in tune with what the video is actually about.

Don't take my word for it, though. It's just funny to me because yesterday I did have a thought that he might change the thumbnail, at least the "liar?" thing because it does subliminally draw attention to the big discussion surrounding him and Dan.
Hm, I get what you're saying but I don't really see why there would be any need to appeal to the phandom because I think most dedicated viewers will just watch the video at least once anyway regardless of what it's about. And changing the title and thumbnail seems rather inconvenient and something he'd only do if he believed it were to benefit him.

Anyway, the algorithm doesn't seem to be in his favour right now, seeing as this message didn't appear in anyone's subscription box...

Image

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by alittledizzy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:53 pm

I got no pop up notification and no email notification for Phil's video yesterday, and according to my settings have both turned on. At this point it feels a little excuse making to say his views are low because of that, but also - it's actually still the truth. If I didn't follow him on twitter/was a dedicated enough fan to be looking for the video I am not sure I'd have actually seen it, which is probably biting him in the ass right now views wise.

If the theory that he changed the the thumbnail/title to avoid the new youtube lockdown on conspiracy theories then I wonder if it helped, because what youtube said they're doing for videos that don't break the rules but that their AI thinks comes close to it is just not recommending/sharing them. So if Phil's video isn't being recommended or shared, and the notifications are fucking up even for subscribers that have them turned on... idk, man. Shame he doesn't have a partner who could maybe give him some promo and expand the reach a little bit.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by Catallena » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:03 pm

I noticed that Phil didn't pimp his video to the Instagram crowd either. I doubt that has THAT much of an influence over his views, but it still drives me mad because it actually happens a lot? He did spon his last video on Stories, and for this video he even teased that it'd come the day after, but then when this one drops there's nothing. No idea why they're so inconsistent with Instagram. Even now he posts something about his new jumper but nothing about his video.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by Amiaw » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:08 pm

alittledizzy wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:53 pm
If the theory that he changed the the thumbnail/title to avoid the new youtube lockdown on conspiracy theories then I wonder if it helped, because what youtube said they're doing for videos that don't break the rules but that their AI thinks comes close to it is just not recommending/sharing them. So if Phil's video isn't being recommended or shared, and the notifications are fucking up even for subscribers that have them turned on... idk, man. Shame he doesn't have a partner who could maybe give him some promo and expand the reach a little bit.
I am probably a terrible person for saying this because I do want Phil to be successful but I want him to be able to succeed on his own without dan helping.
On the other side of the coin If he doesn’t have the success he wants and dan experiences the same thing then maybe they’ll bring back joint content or give us some more creative individual videos

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by CapriciousCrab » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:10 pm

I didnt get a notification or email either so I dont know what's happening. It seems like YouTube is a giant fucking mess.
alittledizzy wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:53 pm
Shame he doesn't have a partner who could maybe give him some promo and expand the reach a little bit.
Indeed

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by Ataraxia25 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:11 pm

George wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:39 pm
Now that Dan has disappear to Bermuda triangle, I feel like there's much more pressure for Phil's content. If we're only getting bread crumbs, those better be some damn good bread crumbs. And let's be real, Phil's solo content has never really been phandom's favorite kind of bread, and now it shows. I get the feeling Phil sticks to his usual style because he's afraid to make more changes when all eyes are on him (and there has already been big changes). But sadly that just emphasize this isn't really what the people want nowadays. Which is tricky for Phil, Dan's radio silence is hardly his fault.
really? In the flow of each person's preference (and we're a lot in the phandom) I'm always getting lost on this.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by Philena » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:12 pm

I mean, this is obviously a year long experiment in which the entertainer(s) provides their audience with exactly nothing compatible with the audience's wants/desires, afterwards said entertainer(s) provide some inexplicable conclusion, decipherable by exactly one human (hint: rhymes with pan).

Eta: damnit! I should have said "creator" :rofl:

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by intoapuddle » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:16 pm

I got the notification but only about an hour after the video was posted.

@dancy oh okay, yeah that debunks my idea then. oh well. and yeah, you're right about the phandom watching anyway. guess i just wanted to entertain that idea for myself haha

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

Post by Ablissa » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:19 pm

320k views on the video so far is low. I'm sad that youtube is fucking up so much, but a part of me does think the problem also lies with the general state of the phandom right now. People are waiting for something big - which will likely never come, because expectations are high and it's hard to deliver when the two people in question are real human beings and intensely private. All those people that are going crazy with wild theories of a break up etc etc are not going to be satisfied with 10 minutes of Phil being cute and semi on brand.
@liola's posts are excellent and they show us that while the numbers are lower than they used to be, they're definitely still high. There are so many youtubers that I've never heard of in my life who have millions of subs, but are dead in terms of engagement. Dan and Phil have one of the most dedicated fanbases on youtube, and this fanbase will definitely endure this temporary hiatus, but I know that some will get bored as time goes on.

Personally, I enjoyed the video and I agree that it was classic AP with a bit of Phil Lester, but I also know that the phandom at large doesn't necessarily want some good old classic AP. Solo Dan has had a bit more fans than solo Phil for quite some time (before Dan killed it that is), and of course, joint content is what most of us are here for (which is why I do expect it to come back when they're done moving.)

Phil alone is not enough to sustain the fandom for a long time. He'd really need to step out of his comfort zone to do something unexpected, which I don't believe he will, because I agree that he likes his channel the way it is. I also don't think he (or D&P in general) wants to win over some new subscribers. Youtube is pretty crap these days and the way to get people to watch you is to do things Phil likely won't do, and that is why we like him.

Idk if this is a controversial opinion or not, but - I think that for their numbers to go up and for their reach to expand, they need to work together again. Until then, everyone will continue being pissed off in one way or another. The 'hardcore' fans like us here will still be content and find things to keep us interested, but the casual fans will fade away eventually, unless Dan and Phil come back as the duo they have established themselves as.
Which yeah, I really think they will and I know that 95% of their fanbase is willing to give them time. This is all just rambling and future thoughts.

(unrelated but kinda related - if they started streaming on twitch I would be ALL for it.)

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