Dan & Phil Part 83: Where in the World is Daniel Howell

[cringemonkey]

This month? Probably. Tomorrow? Nah. I just can't let myself get hyped like that.

lmao ok i feel this (unfortunately )

[autumnhearth]

Let’s be honest, even if he was aware of the exact date and did plan based on that and even already filmed and edited something, he still wouldn’t post it on the day, he’d at least wait until the day after so he could say it’s been over a year

I’m not putting much stock into it anyway.

[Catallena]

I'm over here in He's-Not-Posting-Tomorrow Valley for my own sanity.

This month? Probably. Tomorrow? Nah. I just can't let myself get hyped like that.

Joining you in that valley. Sounds peaceful.

I've never thought that he'd post on the exact same date tbh. Like even if that was ever his plan, it's Dan we're talking about so he'd just not make the deadline and upload it a day later anyway.

Do you think they'll do any Easter baking this year? It's really late this year, not til 21st April, so doubt they've even thought of it but just pondering...

My theory is actually that Easter Baking will be the first actual Dan And Phil Duo Content we'll get this year. If Dan uploads in March and then perhaps even April (yeah I know I'm being way too ambitious) than that will be a good end mark of a period that was exclusively about focusing on their own content. Not that I think we'll suddenly get lots of duo content again after that (but a girl can dream) but things might loosen up again a bit from that point on. Like at that point they've had 4 months to figure shit out, I'm gonna need something.

[Amiaw]

Dan just liked a few interesting tweets about change and YouTube and I’m trying not to put my tinfoil hat on but I’m getting the vibe that somethings coming

[Catallena]

Am I the only one really not enjoying Dan cryptically talking to us by liking tweets? Yeah maybe it's Not That Deep but ugh it's exhausting. He's exhausting. And I'm just very tired. I didn't sign up for a scavenger hunt, Mr. Howell.

[glitterintheair]

Phil's ig story - Can I say I'm tired of seeing that freaking tv? I swear, the only not youtube content we're getting lately is either pigeons or that tv.
Is that a social experiment or something? STOP IT

Edit to say that I still appreciate them being cute and stuff playing games at midnight. Never change please.

[knq]

Someday we'll get full episodes of DAPG in 10 second installments on Phil's instagram. I look forward to that day.

[Catallena]

Phil's ig story - Can I say I'm tired of seeing that freaking tv? I swear, the only not youtube content we're getting lately is either pigeons or that tv.
Is that a social experiment or something? STOP IT

Edit to say that I still appreciate them being cute and stuff playing games at midnight. Never change please.

Absolute total mood. In January Philly literally left me with two days where the only Story uploaded were him showing his screen saying he won in Fortnite, and I'm STILL mad about it.

But also yeah please show us signs of life like this thank you uwu.

[alittledizzy]

I appreciate the midnight 'we're playing video games' update just because I'm still prone to the warm and fuzzies at moments of them living their life being kinda idiots and cute about it.

[Ablissa]

Just a reminder that we're watching some fetus Dan and Phil tomorrow (March 3rd) at 1 PM, 7 PM and 10 PM UTC!
We're using rabb.it - I'll post the link tomorrow morning And if Dan for some reason decides to upload (I'm honestly keeping my expectations VERY LOW), we can all watch that together on the stream as well.

Hope to see you there, lovely people

[knq]

This straight up made me laugh. Phil would very much like to be excluded from this narrative. Re: the search for Daniel Howell.

Happy “I Really Hope the Phandom Doesn’t Shit on Dan But I Also Strongly Suspect That’s What’s Going to Happen Regardless Of What Dan Actually Does or Does Not Do” Day!

[starwatersong]

Cute tweet of M&G pics that I also missed the first time around:

[anushwa]

This straight up made me laugh. Phil would very much like to be excluded from this narrative. Re: the search for Daniel Howell.

Happy “I Really Hope the Phandom Doesn’t Shit on Dan But I Also Strongly Suspect That’s What’s Going to Happen Regardless Of What Dan Actually Does or Does Not Do” Day!

i'm laughing so hard ty for sharing. also makes me a little :/ because i would..... like to be heard by mr amazing.... maybe his idea of introducing membership does serve a purpose when it comes to reviving comments, because over the years i think we all gave up on comments? At least i felt like they stopped giving a damn about the comments since there really are so so many and leaving a comment barely meant anything since they'd get lost.

that is slightly enticing, to have him actually notice what you say, finally a way to give feedback but even then You Pay To Help Him Improve and i guess i can do without that. Personally i'm very self absorbed and feel like dnp should be Begging Me For My Opinions, but that might just be the leo side of me clawing its way outside.

[anushwa]

also, i wanted to bring this up (don't know or understand the rules of this forum, nor do i know if anyone talked about this before but) contra's new video talks about something that can be applied to dan. At least that self deprecating (video talks about it at 20:39) aspect of his. Obviously, we see that his Depression is his darkness and he's entitled to make jokes about it that help him cope. But... i want to talk about the time when we didn't know? And he retold this story from his pov at ii (the whole... wholesome howell bit) and i will admit that i felt called out by it even though it felt like his retelling sort of antagonised and piled everyone who reacted a certain way into one Angry Rude Bad Lump. Which, is fair enough, i'm sure it was horrible to be misunderstood by people.

He does tend to... lash out when he finds people misunderstanding him though. And in that case i'll be honest, i was wrong for assuming but it did feel like he was posting depressing content just to be relatable (again, i was no one to assume. but i couldn't help it since we knew nothing beyond his persona through videos and that was the time a lot of his fanbase was emulating his behaviour and humour. I felt like it was a lose-lose situation and said as much then.)

"find a way to be self deprecating without abandoning social responsibility" (23:30)

this pretty much sums my views up?
and it's tiresome to think that we have to Think So Hard even over comedy but that's just discourse is babee. Anyway, it's a really good video that's very relevant. I feel like an ass for even taking her dialogue that's directed at trans jokes and comparing it to this but i feel like it paralleled well? What do you think?

[Ablissa]

SPON

We're starting our first round of the watch fest in about 15 minutes here: https://www.rabb.it/s/9n77xj

The theme is oooold Dan and Phil videos. Our next rounds are at 7 PM and 10 PM UTC, and the link will stay the same throughout.

If you have any issues joining, please let me know!

[alittledizzy]

also, i wanted to bring this up (don't know or understand the rules of this forum, nor do i know if anyone talked about this before but) contra's new video

talks about something that can be applied to dan. At least that self deprecating (video talks about it at 20:39) aspect of his. Obviously, we see that his Depression is his darkness and he's entitled to make jokes about it that help him cope. But... i want to talk about the time when we didn't know? And he retold this story from his pov at ii (the whole... wholesome howell bit) and i will admit that i felt called out by it even though it felt like his retelling sort of antagonised and piled everyone who reacted a certain way into one Angry Rude Bad Lump. Which, is fair enough, i'm sure it was horrible to be misunderstood by people.

He does tend to... lash out when he finds people misunderstanding him though. And in that case i'll be honest, i was wrong for assuming but it did feel like he was posting depressing content just to be relatable (again, i was no one to assume. but i couldn't help it since we knew nothing beyond his persona through videos and that was the time a lot of his fanbase was emulating his behaviour and humour. I felt like it was a lose-lose situation and said as much then.)

"find a way to be self deprecating without abandoning social responsibility" (23:30)

this pretty much sums my views up?
and it's tiresome to think that we have to Think So Hard even over comedy but that's just discourse is babee. Anyway, it's a really good video that's very relevant. I feel like an ass for even taking her dialogue that's directed at trans jokes and comparing it to this but i feel like it paralleled well? What do you think?

Ooh, I haven't watched contra's new video so I may have more thoughts once I watch it and come back but this is already fascinating to me. Because yeah things definitely were drawn down battle lines re: Dan and depressive humor back then, and it's not like he'd have been the only person ever to use it as a trend. I Imagine it must have bothered him. That's definitely one of the perils of wanting to hold some of yourself back - people can't judge a full picture when you've only shown them half so you're gonna get judged for things that might have perfectly reasonable excuses. I think in their mind it must always come down to which is gonna be more stressful, vulnerability or being judged and unable to argue back against it.

[Stakhanov]

also, i wanted to bring this up (don't know or understand the rules of this forum, nor do i know if anyone talked about this before but) contra's new video talks about something that can be applied to dan. At least that self deprecating (video talks about it at 20:39) aspect of his. Obviously, we see that his Depression is his darkness and he's entitled to make jokes about it that help him cope. But... i want to talk about the time when we didn't know? And he retold this story from his pov at ii (the whole... wholesome howell bit) and i will admit that i felt called out by it even though it felt like his retelling sort of antagonised and piled everyone who reacted a certain way into one Angry Rude Bad Lump. Which, is fair enough, i'm sure it was horrible to be misunderstood by people.

He does tend to... lash out when he finds people misunderstanding him though. And in that case i'll be honest, i was wrong for assuming but it did feel like he was posting depressing content just to be relatable (again, i was no one to assume. but i couldn't help it since we knew nothing beyond his persona through videos and that was the time a lot of his fanbase was emulating his behaviour and humour. I felt like it was a lose-lose situation and said as much then.)

"find a way to be self deprecating without abandoning social responsibility" (23:30)

this pretty much sums my views up?
and it's tiresome to think that we have to Think So Hard even over comedy but that's just discourse is babee. Anyway, it's a really good video that's very relevant. I feel like an ass for even taking her dialogue that's directed at trans jokes and comparing it to this but i feel like it paralleled well? What do you think?

Hey. Interesting topic and video. Dan has described himself as an entertainer and you continiously see discourse develop in the fandom around what is good comedy or what jokes are appropriate in his video's. The jokes he makes about depression are only one of the many issues where I feel his humor gets misunderstood. Humor is such a subjective thing (as Nathalie also points out). Every group of friends makes different jokes, we're all children of a time and culture and when you consider all the philosophical and ethical differences in how you can understand and approach a thing like comedy it's pretty extraordinary we can sit in a room with thousands and spontaneously laugh - without giving it any thought.

There are points being raised in the video that I found insightful and others where I disagree. I'm focusing on where we disagree just because it's a lengthy vid and I think it's more interesting to exchange differing views and a competing discourse rather than restating what she says followed with a "yess, slayy Queen!!"

The biggest point of contention (offense you might say) I have with her video is her framing of the debate in very anglo-saxon or 'internet culture' terms. She casts the difference in terms of a "culture war" between "snowflakes" and "edgy truth-tellers", describing the jokes of Gervais as "stale dank memes" and seemingly linking antagonistic views about humor to the political recuperation that's happening between proponents of the "alt-right" movement and "woke regressive left". But I think that's a very reductionist view. What gets laughs around the world and what's even considered humor can be pretty different around the world. So I think her view is very much influenced by her own experiences and the narratives she gets exposed to as a youtuber, as a trans person and as an American. But that's not necessarily pertinent to everyone's experiences and I feel that shows when she talks about how she thinks Gervais' trans jokes are uninformed and bad. I can understand how they are to her - I don't doubt she's right about some of the jokes in that they confirm a cliché and it's unlikely that Gervais is intimately aware of all the facts and struggles within the trans community. I can understand how she craves for other comedians who are aware of that and how the jokes they make are funnier to her. However, I think her point that these jokes would therefore be bad or inappropriate is wrong-headed. It fails to take into account that general audiences will always be unaware about the nuances and history of most issues that get joked about. So is she about issues she isn't personally experienced or knowledgeable about and that she will laugh with. Requiring a comedian or audience to only appreciate jokes that would be considered appropriate by the subject of the joke is a terrible yardstick. Should we only make jokes that are perfectly fair to every politician? To every person and every personality trait? To any group and history? I don't think that is the purpose of comedy, and I attribute this way of thinking about comedy to a moralistic discourse on humor and jokes that I vehemently disagree with.

That's the second main point I disagree with. Yes I do tend to like humor better that 'punches above'. Yes sometimes I do find jokes so stereotypical or insensitive that they lose their humor for me. But I understand that the sensitivities and personal lines I draw are subjective, and that anyone who crosses those lines isn't necessarily out of line and should adopt the same views as mine. Nathalie does bring up this point herself - maybe we don't really agree about what is 'truth', 'honesty' or what is right (to joke about) in a certain situation. Yet some people don't want to seem to acknowledge this diversity when they nail comedians on the cross for making certain jokes. Sometimes I see people making pretty ridiculous, over the top allegations that target the comedians themselves (whoms views they seldom really know). They imbue a joke(r) with all kinds of motives, confuse object and subject, misunderstand context or simply argue that some subjects ought to be "taboo" to joke with.
I do in principle agree with the idea that some of the best comedy i created when one "finds a way to be self deprecating without abandoning social responsibility", but what exactly we find socially responsible and self depracting will probably be different for at least some issues. I also think that there ought to be room for humor that isn't self deprecating and that essentially, humor can have a different meaning and fulfill different functions that don't all have to be socially responsible.

Since Nathalie does bring up Gervais as her main example I want to offer the view from the man himself too. It's a 5 min radio segment in some show I don't know, and I bet as a professional comedian he's got more thoughts than whatever gets brushed upon here in these 5 minutes, but I think it offers some insight at least in his thinking about 'offensive jokes'.
(btw I don't think he makes the best defense but I do think he brings up good points, e.g. about 'taboo' subjects', the madly polarized discourse on social media and how comedy is about more than being socially responsible)

[kavat]

It's a great video, and I liked how she talked about edginess vs shitposting and punching up or down.

Like when someone says he wants to watch the world burn. You only get to watch when you have the privilege of not being on fire. It's edgy, but it's not the darkness. The darkness is finding a way to laugh about being on fire. (26.32)

Obvious connection about being on fire aside, this is imo what a lot of people had problems with before D&D dropped. Dan made jokes about being sad, but it was hard to tell from which angle he was coming when we didn't have confirmation of his own mental state. You saw a lot of people thinking his jokes went too far and felt like he was punching down on depressed/mentally ill people, when in fact he was joking about himself. He was on fire, but we couldn't see it (again, this metafor is too fitting).

I want to make clear that I don't think he owed us an explanation about his own mental state, but it did put things in context and made it easier to know if the jokes he made were inappropriate or not.

[Stakhanov]

I think what happened with all the criticism about Dan and his jokes about mental health is a good example and warning of why people should be more nuanced in their judgment and stay self-aware of their assumptions.
I don't hold it against people who think Dan was joking about it just to be 'relatable' that they were wrong. Most of them, I assume, did it with good intent and thought they were defending the trivialization of mental health issues, and pleading to take real mental health issues as a serious matter and not just something to joke about.
But it also shows how quick they were to judge. Instead of realizing that they didn't know the person (as we still don't know Dan or Phil on a whole lot of other issues), they just started reasoning from the assumption that he probably wasn't being sincere and interpreted his jokes and motivatons in the worst possible way.
I don't even think it matters if Dan really was depressed. He could have been not depressed, it doesn't mean that the jokes he made were inappropriate. The idea that you have to face mental health issues yourself to be able to joke about it I find very damaging and ridiculous. You're not automatically disqualified from making dark jokes about mental health because you're not experiencing it yourself. As a person who does face mental health challenges themselves , I would find it devastating if friends, comedians, ... people in general weren't able to joke about it in their own way.

[phanfckingtastic]

Wow, I JUST finished watching Natalie’s video (which I bloody LOVED, so good omg) and also made a connection to Dan, but more in regards to who he is and who he can be on yt.
For a few months now I’ve been thinking that Contrapoints is basically what Dan would aspire to do (imo) as a youtuber. Good content, “edgy” aesthetic and subject matter, original, dark humour, more intelectual and literate than the average yt vlog.
But do I honestly think Dan could actually make a video like Natalie’s today, even script wise? I’m not sure.
He’s no doubt a very smart guy, but he’s nowhere near as educated or well-read as Natalie, and I think he has trouble constructing a deep, well rounded argument on a specific subject, unlike a 30 second soundbite. His recent attempts at anything remotely similar left us confused, and left him angry and frustrated. Not entirely his fault, but I feel like a lot of other ytbers they get stuck in a loop regarding the way they create, almost none of them continue taking classes or going out of their way to expand on their skills, especially the very sucessful ones, and the formula gets inevitably stale or dries up.
I feel like he would actually benefit from working with a writer or a comedian to help him punch up his material or get rid of excess fat that he can’t objectively see and takes away either from the comedy, the message, or both.
Btw I don’t think that would be “demeaning” or whatever, in fact I say that because I too share a sense that Dan has a lot of potential, but when other fans talk about all the ideas and topics he could cover and how genius the videos would be, I’m here thinking “but based on his last year/two years of videos, would he actually be able to pull it off?”
The only exception for me is Daniel and depression, which remains his best video imo, and the only “modern era Dan” vid where he found a perfect balance in content of the vid and execution.
The thing is that video was extremely personal, and when it comes to creative shit, from my experience, the more personal and the more you need to get something out you somehow end up getting a clearer and better final product. Does he have any other areas that are so personal and urgent that could cause such alchemy again by himself? Is it sustainable?
It frustates me when he defends ytbers by saying they do lighting, sound, writing, editing etc and have amazing ideas that formal media could use. A channel like Contrapoints, sure, and on the opposite end of the spectrum channels like Phil’s imo are charming BECAUSE they’re kinda lame and homemade (especially Phil knowing how to edit but choosing a purposely crappy aesthetic), like hanging out with a pal, but Dan can’t truly say that simply because ytbers do all those things it also makes the content better. I’ve watched plenty of badly lit, badly edited, badly mic’ed, and badly written videos on youtube. A lot of them imho could use help from an external voice maybe with experience in traditional media (or not) to take the actual content to another level.
It’s not just gatekeepers and old people keeping ytbers on youtube. What made for an amazing video from a quirky 17 year old 10 years ago, doesn’t necessarily make for a good one from a professional almost 30 year old when we have new ytbers like Natalie creating stuff very meticulously or external things like netflix, full of amazing writing and variety of content.
Idk. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m very, very curious about what he’s planning to do about his yt channel and I hope the time he’s taken will help him not to self-sabotage when it
comes to the making of future videos, and that he’s happy with what he chooses to do.

[padfoot]

Hello! First time poster, long time lurker here. Wanted to join in and write about a few things. (prettty unrelated to the current discourse right now)

The change for AmazingPhil
I have some clashing opinions about the change Phil is going through right now. He changed the background (finally!), is doing more solo videos (which I’m both happy about… and not), and speaking just a bit more comfortably and less robot-ish (again, finally!). Best part of the change is the addition of slightly adult themed puns/jokes for me.
I like the new direction the channel’s taking because I wanted both of them to have their own ‘thing’ since I started watching them – I truly believe they can create solo content that will be interesting and new. When it became clear that Phil was gonna continue making videos while Dan was on his break, I was excited to see what he would do. He has yet to bring anything extremely original to the table, in my opinion ‘A chat with myself from 10 years ago’ is the only relatively interesting content for now. Of course, taking into consideration that youtube takes your left leg, left arm, and all your revenue when you steer away from the algorithm-approved area, I was not expecting a drastic turn. But ‘buying weird stuff’,‘acting shocked about things I chose and wrote down before the video’ type videos… really don’t do it for me. Overall, I can say that I’m happy that he’s happier, and he will try new things. At some point.

The possible change for Dan & hiatus
Firstly, I want to say the memeing of life – Daniel and depression – trying to live my truth trio gives me hope, waters my crops, and feeds my pigeons. Dan’s rebranding was my favorite, after changing the channel name, he too became more comfortable as a creator. Seeing him talk about himself in ways he never did before and start to break the internet-character he built was so refreshing. I think his break after Interactive Introverts was pretty expected. But as time goes on, I’m starting to dread the time he will upload. It seems like a lot of people are getting antsy and somewhat verbally-aggressive on multiple platforms. I can understand the expectations of the fandom of course, but I don’t get the whole ‘he HAS TO upload something soon because we want it and his break is already too long’ view. He can be working on something unrelated to his channel, he can be just sitting at home playing some videogames, he can be thinking about how he wants to shape his future (youtube or generally speaking). He’s been the punchbag of the general fandom even since I started actively following phandom. I wouldn’t be too surprised if he lengthens his break even more or just starts working on something unrelated to youtube. I really don’t expect him to upload tonight, but we will see, I guess.

[Stakhanov]

@padfoot
Welcome!

~Change we can believe in. Yea I feel the same about Phil's vids so far. It's the only channel that's still producing video's so he's got that going for him But I haven't seen any real change so far Two out of three vids literally are retakes and while maybe his tone has changed a bit and he's a bit less "AP" and a bit more "Phil", I find the change so far underwhelming.
But maybe with time he'll venture into more creative terrain. I would love to see his old style come back of less polished, more quirky vids. Or just something completely new.

~Dan's 7 years in Tibet. There's never been any solid reason to assume he's uploading now. If people are starting to be verbally agressive on platforms just because he doesn't conform to their contrived expectations, that's entirely on them. He's never put forward this date. I find it depressing that people keep getting caught in the cycle of building up their own expectations, than being angry at Dan for not meeting those and going off on a rant. This is the sort of thing that would put me off youtube if I were a successful entertainer wondering about what I'd want to do next. But what can you do people will create their drama and go ballistic on it anyway That's the crazy part of the phandom I wish would just move on to K-pop

[anushwa]

I think what happened with all the criticism about Dan and his jokes about mental health is a good example and warning of why people should be more nuanced in their judgment and stay self-aware of their assumptions.
I don't hold it against people who think Dan was joking about it just to be 'relatable' that they were wrong. Most of them, I assume, did it with good intent and thought they were defending the trivialization of mental health issues, and pleading to take real mental health issues as a serious matter and not just something to joke about.
But it also shows how quick they were to judge. Instead of realizing that they didn't know the person (as we still don't know Dan or Phil on a whole lot of other issues), they just started reasoning from the assumption that he probably wasn't being sincere and interpreted his jokes and motivatons in the worst possible way.
I don't even think it matters if Dan really was depressed. He could have been not depressed, it doesn't mean that the jokes he made were inappropriate. The idea that you have to face mental health issues yourself to be able to joke about it I find very damaging and ridiculous. You're not automatically disqualified from making dark jokes about mental health because you're not experiencing it yourself. As a person who does face mental health challenges themselves , I would find it devastating if friends, comedians, ... people in general weren't able to joke about it in their own way.

glad u don't hold it against me bro
but yeah I agree that none of us were entitled to make that decision and make those assumptions, however you have to consider his influence and at that time Almost Everyone was pandering and making damaging jokes, it was hard to separate him from that bunch (in fact it hurt me to imagine him doing that at all) but it definitely did make me aware of how unfair it was for me to think that way at all. Everyone is *allowed* to make jokes, and i'm no one to stop them for sure, but i will disagree with your last point. It was something mentioned in the video, actually in Nanette! The disparity between humility and humiliation? When it feels like it's coming from the outside, it feels like humiliation or mocking. Though when i realised how wrong i was, i just refrain from making that assumption now. So, this is a good thing really, someone tell dan that this actually helped some of us even if the situation was quite daunting for him (I think he learned a lot too, about how people expect him to be and [insert ii spiel here])

[anushwa]

I’m very, very curious about what he’s planning to do about his yt channel and I hope the time he’s taken will help him not to self-sabotage when it
comes to the making of future videos, and that he’s happy with what he chooses to do.

YEs!! i feel like danisnotonfire was a brilliant idea, well executed at the time. He was the hero (then/mostly) tweens needed, but his channel hasn't aged that well. Any change he brought about to age it up felt very forced (like killing dinof) i don't need to bring up phil's channel but i will because i love him, phil's channel Needed a change because it restricted his content, and he did, it took a Long time and anxiety but he did it quite gracefully imo. Even though he keeps talking about cocks and makes youtubey videos that i don't particularly love rn.

I think dan is more capable than we give him credit for, the last time we (?) didn't believe or expect anything from him, he gave us the diss track and i thought that was quite brilliant actually. Contrapoints? dan wishes. but there has to be some founding in reality, it doesn't make sense for him to expect something so different from what his reality is. I think that was the problem with his fanbase bitterness too, he wanted a different demographic but his content did not appeal to them. And I do think he's moved on from that, especially after tour, getting a better perspective. I really hope he makes videos he's happy with when he starts again. Take a fucking philosophy course mate i don't care just, do whatever is organic and fresh. He's a good (funny) kid, i kind of trust him a little

u should nat is what he wishes he was, but i think he knows his skillset and wouldn't make that comparison, phil0sophytube however, i wonder if he sees that and wonders if things would have turned out that way for him if he had taken a few different paths in life. I wish he wouldn't focus on the paths he didn't take because well, he did really well for himself. It matters what he thinks obviously but... he has done Great Stuff and has the potential to keep at it. I hope he does.

[knq]

I thought this was a Dan twitter like when I went looking for it, but now that I've found it I think I may have read it on a phandom account. Regardless, it addresses Dan's humor around depression rather well.

The continuing adventures of Phil interacting with his neighbors: