Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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knq
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I think the conversation often comes back around to liveshows because they’re such a significant loss that hasn’t been entirely clean, as the Rize shows popped up not too long after dnp said they wouldn’t be doing regular YouNow streams anymore. They both did weekly livestreams for, what, 5-6 years? And now they don’t. Even if Phil were to make as many videos on AP as he used to make live-streams, I can’t see that building or maintaining the same sense of community that his just chatting to his audience once did.
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knq wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:51 pm I think the conversation often comes back around to liveshows because they’re such a significant loss that hasn’t been entirely clean, as the Rize shows popped up not too long after dnp said they wouldn’t be doing regular YouNow streams anymore. They both did weekly livestreams for, what, 5-6 years? And now they don’t. Even if Phil were to make as many videos on AP as he used to make live-streams, I can’t see that building or maintaining the same sense of community that his just chatting to his audience once did.
I agree, the lack of live shows feels like a big loss. That was what made them different from most other big name creators, their direct and frequent chats with us. Insta stories can fill that void to a point, as it is also pretty unedited and often used to just show what they've been up to today, but now we have neither. I know Phil posts stories every now and then but not remotely like he used to or with any type of info on what they're up to.

I miss Dan's rambly rants on politics and philosophy, his music recs and calming finishing words. I miss Phil talking excitedly about food and TV and movies, and random show and tell. I miss them telling anecdotes together by interrupting each other and giving us just a small insight into their life together. I really miss live shows.

To be clear, I don't think they should do them just because we want them to. I just want them to want to talk to us like that again, I guess.
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^ Got to second that. The live shows were really unique in that they showed a side of Dan and Phil as people that you just don't really get in more polished vids of 10 or so mins. Even in gaming streams, you don't have that more laid-back, unfocused conversation that makes it feel like you're really listening to a person speaking his mind (even though I think that even the most honest liveshow were still full of self-censorship and you always retain some of the social mask as entertainer).

The really sad part about the last couple of months imo is that they're quietly becoming strangers.
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sapienveneficus wrote:And yes, I've seen the comments saying that anyone who expects more from Phil is just being entitled, but YouTube is Phil's career (at least, it is at the moment). If this is a path he wants to keep treading, he needs to be putting more into it.
That was me and I didn't really mean it like that. I understand expecting more from him, but I don't get demanding it or saying he shouldn't release merch as long as he's not posting "enough" content, whatever enough means. Just to clear that one up. Other than that, I agree with you. I'm very optimistic about Phil's channel at the moment and the 1 month gap between his last two videos was explained by the technical difficulties so I think what he's aiming for is 1 video per week even if it doesn't really work out every week.

BUT I agree that if that's the schedule he's aiming for, he needs to work on sticking to it. I don't even care if he wants to post whenever without a set day or anything, but I really hope that he'll manage to stick to a schedule in the future, especially since he's selling subscriptions. He doesn't owe us free content but I do think he owes the people paying for his content more than one video a month or at least some clear communication how often to expect new content. :shrug:
sapienveneficus wrote:Let's run the numbers: there have been 114 days in 2019 (wow, time flies!). Phil has posted 7 videos which averages out to a 16.29 day gap between videos.
He did take January off, like he usually does, so I wouldn't count January if we're going for calculations like this. If there hadn't been a 1 month gap due to technical issues, he'd be almost consistent with one video every 7-10 days. And I hope he manages to stick with that from now on. But I do think he needs to at least communicate how much content we can expect from him.
knq wrote:I think the conversation often comes back around to liveshows because they’re such a significant loss
I get this but I'm also conflicted about this a little. Am I remembering this wrong or did Phil actually say he doesn't like doing them? Because if he doesn't want to do them, I kinda... don't want them, to be honest. I don't want to watch him for 30 minutes just waiting for the moment he can finally end them, like he used to (or was that Dan? My memory is foggy, damn.).
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^ he didn’t say he didn’t like doing them, we just gathered that by how much shorter and infrequent they were getting over the past two years. Yep, that was definitely Phil, though Dan’s got a bit shorter toward the end, especially if food was coming.

I hope that the membership messages continue to have little “personal” bits like what shows he’s watching, that he’s sitting outside with a coconut popsicle or random thoughts. And we’ll see how the Q&A goes and if he actually makes them quarterly. I don’t suppose we’ll get that today before they go to Endgame will we? What does end of the week mean? Is it the same as soon?
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Today marks a year since Dan and Phil started doing Instagram Stories for tour. Tomorrow will mark a year since I started compiling, editing, and uploading them almost every day. How the hell I've even managed to keep that up for so long idk. Honestly it hasn't been very interesting lately lol.



Also I promise I'll update the thread that lists them all tonight and then actually keep up with it because I haven't done that in a long time.
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You've been doing the lord's work catallena, thank you! :stan: :sunshine:
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knq
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Dnp have expressed strong opinions that the end of the week is Sunday. They are wrong but I allow them their wrong beliefs.

To be clear, I think only a very small minority of people want something—the return of live shows, Dan’s return generally—regardless of how Dan and Phil feel or would be impacted by it. I do think the loss of live shows has impacted the phandom experience pretty dramatically, but that’s not at all to say I think they ought to be brought back to dnp’s detriment. It’s just to say.... I think their loss impacted the phandom dramatically. :shrug:
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knq wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:30 pm Dnp have expressed strong opinions that the end of the week is Sunday. They are wrong but I allow them their wrong beliefs.

To be clear, I think only a very small minority of people want something—the return of live shows, Dan’s return generally—regardless of how Dan and Phil feel or would be impacted by it. I do think the loss of live shows has impacted the phandom experience pretty dramatically, but that’s not at all to say I think they ought to be brought back to dnp’s detriment. It’s just to say.... I think their loss impacted the phandom dramatically. :shrug:
I agree with everything in your post besides the first point - the end of the week is definitely Sunday, on that they are 100% correct :D

I think we all miss live shows, but they said last year that they would be doing them whenever they felt like it. I'm not surprised they haven't come back, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't come back at all, considering I'm still on my Moving Hill and I think they're trying to get more privacy, and live shows opens them up more than a video would
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and the beauty of Phil Lester.

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sapienveneficus wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:41 pm Whereas before, spon was something small (blink and you'll miss it)snuck in amid a sea of content or the catalyst for a truly hilarious video (their Crunchrull ads were a thing of beauty!). Now that dynamic has completely changed. Phil only seems to put out content when he wants to sell us something. That's the big difference in my opinion, and it's the difference that's making me feel less than positive towards this latest merch line.
I've seen a couple of other people also saying that Phil's videos are just filled with spons these days but I don't know where people are getting that idea from? Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the Google Search video been the only one containing a spon (Honey) this year, besides Phil's brief self-spon in the last one?
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I'm digging Dan's latest twitter follow. I would love it if when he returns his content is about discussing society and science and politics and all those things he's really interested in. He's commented on the irony of his content being all about him when he hates talking about himself - this would be the perfect solution to that, and I kinda think that's where he's headed.

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I hope that's where he's headed. I also hope that when talks about issues like society and politics, he proves to be someone who's thoughtful and doesn't apply a dogmatic approach to complex questions.
However I do think talking about political and social issues opens you up to more criticism. I'm not sure it's a good fit with his current audience. So maybe he'll seek an new one and try build a different kind of connection. I think the risks are considerable and success really isn't that sure. Sure he'll always retain some part of his gigantic amount of subscribers, but no matter how much effort he'd put into his kind of new video's, they'll probably only appeal to a minority of viewers.

But if that's where his passion is and if his personal struggle is between not returning at all or continuing to create content he doesn't like anymore, i think he's better off going for something new he's actually more motivated for, even though it'd take courage.
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dancy wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:39 pm
sapienveneficus wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:41 pm Whereas before, spon was something small (blink and you'll miss it)snuck in amid a sea of content or the catalyst for a truly hilarious video (their Crunchrull ads were a thing of beauty!). Now that dynamic has completely changed. Phil only seems to put out content when he wants to sell us something. That's the big difference in my opinion, and it's the difference that's making me feel less than positive towards this latest merch line.
I've seen a couple of other people also saying that Phil's videos are just filled with spons these days but I don't know where people are getting that idea from? Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the Google Search video been the only one containing a spon (Honey) this year, besides Phil's brief self-spon in the last one?
Great question, I seem to remember every video being spon for at least one thing so I went back to do a little rewatch.

Time for a Change - Memberships, and Dan and Phil Shops being combined until February
Buying Weird Stuff On Fiverr! - Memberships
A Chat With Myself From 10 Years Ago - No spon (there goes that theory)
My Google Search History 2! - Memberships, Honey, Phil's Planner (lots of Dan mentions, the most so far)
Reacting To Myself On A TV Quiz Show! - No spon (that's 2!)
Doing Things My Parents Never Let Me Do As A Kid - No spon (that's 3!)
Trying Weird Instagram Life Hacks! - New merch

So turns out my memory wasn't accurate. There was spon in 4/7 videos. The most spon coincided with the most Dan mentions, coincidence? :illuminati:
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Yay! Will this be the fabled Q&A?
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sapienveneficus wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:38 pm
dancy wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:39 pm
sapienveneficus wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:41 pm Whereas before, spon was something small (blink and you'll miss it)snuck in amid a sea of content or the catalyst for a truly hilarious video (their Crunchrull ads were a thing of beauty!). Now that dynamic has completely changed. Phil only seems to put out content when he wants to sell us something. That's the big difference in my opinion, and it's the difference that's making me feel less than positive towards this latest merch line.
I've seen a couple of other people also saying that Phil's videos are just filled with spons these days but I don't know where people are getting that idea from? Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the Google Search video been the only one containing a spon (Honey) this year, besides Phil's brief self-spon in the last one?
Great question, I seem to remember every video being spon for at least one thing so I went back to do a little rewatch.

Time for a Change - Memberships, and Dan and Phil Shops being combined until February
Buying Weird Stuff On Fiverr! - Memberships
A Chat With Myself From 10 Years Ago - No spon (there goes that theory)
My Google Search History 2! - Memberships, Honey, Phil's Planner (lots of Dan mentions, the most so far)
Reacting To Myself On A TV Quiz Show! - No spon (that's 2!)
Doing Things My Parents Never Let Me Do As A Kid - No spon (that's 3!)
Trying Weird Instagram Life Hacks! - New merch

So turns out my memory wasn't accurate. There was spon in 4/7 videos. The most spon coincided with the most Dan mentions, coincidence? :illuminati:
I get what you're saying here, but I'm not sure I follow a single youtuber that has merch/does youtube as a career that doesn't promote their own stuff every video or every other video. I genuinely don't consider content that has 30 seconds of spon for his own product as Phil only making content to sell us stuff. It's just a part of youtube as a business and it does not get in the way of any kind of enjoyment I derive from the video. For me it's just like hearing them say 'like and subscribe.'

I also don't think he mentions Dan in specific videos just to sell us more merch. Some videos are more allowing of anecdotal scenarios than others. I mean, if that logic were true, he'd have found a way to shoehorn a Dan mention into his latest merch launch, right? I'm all for being up front about how this is a business for them and they're selling us stuff but I don't think every single thing they do or say is that calculated.
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I just want to comment on the 'All Phil's videos has spon' with that a lot of YouTubers I watch have spon in all of their videos. It's like their end screen. And this is both big and small YouTubers.

In some ways I think that just how YouTube is now. :shrug:
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Tottrie wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:42 pm I just want to comment on the 'All Phil's videos has spon' with that a lot of YouTubers I watch have spon in all of their videos. It's like their end screen. And this is both big and small YouTubers.

In some ways I think that just how YouTube is now. :shrug:
Yep +1 to this. I was going to use Anna Akana as an example for this. Aside from older/really personal, raw videos she always has a sponsor at the end of her videos, and she never actually makes the videos for the sponsor. She has a team who works with her during filming and in post, and she has to pay them somehow and make money for herself. Phil doing it occasionally as the person who works on the video by himself (I mean, ofc Dan is in that, but I wouldn't doubt that they have a joint bank account at this point) evens out that playing field imo.
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I know that Phil knows that we all share his Members Only posts.... but I still want to know what drove him to just tell members about the new video tomorrow.

Does he want casuals to be Beyonce'd?
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rizzo wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:08 pm I know that Phil knows that we all share his Members Only posts.... but I still want to know what drove him to just tell members about the new video tomorrow.

Does he want casuals to be Beyonce'd?
I had the same thought because he’s been weird about this q&a in general but he probably just couldn’t be bothered to tweet or put up a story even though he was actively liking things in on twitter
Anyways here’s to hoping he answers some questions about things that aren’t houseplants and corgi’s
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Stakhanov wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:43 pm I hope that's where he's headed. I also hope that when talks about issues like society and politics, he proves to be someone who's thoughtful and doesn't apply a dogmatic approach to complex questions.
However I do think talking about political and social issues opens you up to more criticism. I'm not sure it's a good fit with his current audience. So maybe he'll seek an new one and try build a different kind of connection. I think the risks are considerable and success really isn't that sure. Sure he'll always retain some part of his gigantic amount of subscribers, but no matter how much effort he'd put into his kind of new video's, they'll probably only appeal to a minority of viewers.

But if that's where his passion is and if his personal struggle is between not returning at all or continuing to create content he doesn't like anymore, i think he's better off going for something new he's actually more motivated for, even though it'd take courage.
Exactly what I hope he does. He’s spent years giving the people what they want (I mean he flat out went on a world tour warning people about this) and now he needs to shift. I strongly doubt he wants to keep on telling 12-year-olds how to handle relationships, or that he finds any pleasure in Dil part 127.

He needs to stop being a circus monkey and find a way to keep the quality he wants on an occasional schedule, This can be anywhere from activism like Jack Harries to bondage equipment reviews like Dave Wavey.
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I know this is only tangentially related to Dan and Phil but I feel like it adds to the conversation about money and Youtube revenue, which is a thing we talk about regularly - Hank Green just did 26 minute look at the new Youtube Creator Studio that shows how analytics breakdown. He's using his side channel but it's still fascinating to me to see even how much money a side channel (349k subs) makes per video (with his views ranging from 50k-120kish, it looks like).

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rizzo wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:08 pm I know that Phil knows that we all share his Members Only posts.... but I still want to know what drove him to just tell members about the new video tomorrow.

Does he want casuals to be Beyonce'd?
I wonder if he's avoiding Twitter because of potential Endgame spoilers?
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Catallena wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:53 pm Today marks a year since Dan and Phil started doing Instagram Stories for tour. Tomorrow will mark a year since I started compiling, editing, and uploading them almost every day. How the hell I've even managed to keep that up for so long idk. Honestly it hasn't been very interesting lately lol.
Also I promise I'll update the thread that lists them all tonight and then actually keep up with it because I haven't done that in a long time.
I actually started rewatching the Instagram stories from the beginning yesterday, which made me think of so many good memories from last year. Thanks for the hard work, catallena!
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cocolero wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:48 am
Stakhanov wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:43 pm I hope that's where he's headed. I also hope that when talks about issues like society and politics, he proves to be someone who's thoughtful and doesn't apply a dogmatic approach to complex questions.
However I do think talking about political and social issues opens you up to more criticism. I'm not sure it's a good fit with his current audience. So maybe he'll seek an new one and try build a different kind of connection. I think the risks are considerable and success really isn't that sure. Sure he'll always retain some part of his gigantic amount of subscribers, but no matter how much effort he'd put into his kind of new video's, they'll probably only appeal to a minority of viewers.

But if that's where his passion is and if his personal struggle is between not returning at all or continuing to create content he doesn't like anymore, i think he's better off going for something new he's actually more motivated for, even though it'd take courage.
Exactly what I hope he does. He’s spent years giving the people what they want (I mean he flat out went on a world tour warning people about this) and now he needs to shift. I strongly doubt he wants to keep on telling 12-year-olds how to handle relationships, or that he finds any pleasure in Dil part 127.

He needs to stop being a circus monkey and find a way to keep the quality he wants on an occasional schedule, This can be anywhere from activism like Jack Harries to bondage equipment reviews like Dave Wavey.
Ah yes, Dan’s well known passion for consumerism and broadcasting his sexual experiences. Coming soon to YouTube Red, membership fees start at $9.99, check out his Patreon for exclusive insider info.

Genuinely, things Dan has expressed pride over: his involvement with Young Minds, hearing he’s eased other people’s suffering with his videos, and... the Sims series.

There’s nothing wrong with being ready for some change, but the connection you've made between giving young people advice and being a circus monkey is truly strange to me.


Chiming in truly late on Phil only letting his YT members know the video is coming tomorrow: I think it’s just a mix of laziness and responsibility towards his channel members in particular, as a chance to be in the Q&A is part of the membership perks.


Thanks for linking the video @alittledizzy! Can you imagine how cool it would be to see the analytics on AP?
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knq wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:41 am
cocolero wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:48 am
Stakhanov wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:43 pm I hope that's where he's headed. I also hope that when talks about issues like society and politics, he proves to be someone who's thoughtful and doesn't apply a dogmatic approach to complex questions.
However I do think talking about political and social issues opens you up to more criticism. I'm not sure it's a good fit with his current audience. So maybe he'll seek an new one and try build a different kind of connection. I think the risks are considerable and success really isn't that sure. Sure he'll always retain some part of his gigantic amount of subscribers, but no matter how much effort he'd put into his kind of new video's, they'll probably only appeal to a minority of viewers.

But if that's where his passion is and if his personal struggle is between not returning at all or continuing to create content he doesn't like anymore, i think he's better off going for something new he's actually more motivated for, even though it'd take courage.
Exactly what I hope he does. He’s spent years giving the people what they want (I mean he flat out went on a world tour warning people about this) and now he needs to shift. I strongly doubt he wants to keep on telling 12-year-olds how to handle relationships, or that he finds any pleasure in Dil part 127.

He needs to stop being a circus monkey and find a way to keep the quality he wants on an occasional schedule, This can be anywhere from activism like Jack Harries to bondage equipment reviews like Dave Wavey.
Ah yes, Dan’s well known passion for consumerism and broadcasting his sexual experiences. Coming soon to YouTube Red, membership fees start at $9.99, check out his Patreon for exclusive insider info.

Genuinely, things Dan has expressed pride over: his involvement with Young Minds, hearing he’s eased other people’s suffering with his videos, and... the Sims series.

There’s nothing wrong with being ready for some change, but the connection you've made between giving young people advice and being a circus monkey is truly strange to me.
I was gonna say that but @knq beat me to it.

First, I'm impressed that you seem to know what Dan wants. It's not like he's talking to us, is he? So we don't know what he thinks, what are his plans.

Second, can we stop with this idea that the phandom is only 12-year-old people when we, on this forum, know it's not true and when d&p themselves said after the tour that people were older than they had imagined.

I'm sorry If i come across as harsh, I'm just tired of this : we don't know what Dan wants to do (I'm not sure Dan does, idk) so it annoys me when I see people talking about it in such a certain way.
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