Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

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Stakhanov
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cocolero wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:48 am
Exactly what I hope he does. He’s spent years giving the people what they want (I mean he flat out went on a world tour warning people about this) and now he needs to shift. I strongly doubt he wants to keep on telling 12-year-olds how to handle relationships, or that he finds any pleasure in Dil part 127.

He needs to stop being a circus monkey and find a way to keep the quality he wants on an occasional schedule, This can be anywhere from activism like Jack Harries to bondage equipment reviews like Dave Wavey.
Or a mix of both :lol: Taking out "the Climate Gimp" to protesting would take his channel full circle ;)

Yea when you look at it soberly, it seems so obvious to me that they've both outgrown the type of content that launched them to youtube fame. I always found "Give the people what they want" to be a pretty peculiar slogan. It speaks volumes about what they think about their own content. I would expect a truly impassioned artist, comedian or video creator to define what they make in terms of what it means to themselves. Instead of launching it with the baseline "here's what you want". It's almost like they were distancing themselves from the very show they were bringing.
Actually, come to think of it, TATINOF pretty much explicitly incorporated that narrative in the show. We don't sing llama songs anymore and Phil won't ask you to draw him naked, but here's a last celebration of our early youtube!

Some parts of the "brand", they can try wave goodbye. Though, like Dan said - nobody is letting me escape my past (not even his own mom when she wanted to buy him a llama, the poor thing :) ). But what do you do when you fall out of love with producing the archetypical content that made people flock to you in the first place? I think they both have shown signs of "metal fatigue" for a while. The II-tour probably masked it, but Dan never really restarted his channel after the 2017 winter break. When it came out, "Living my own truth" sounded to me like a new start, but looking back you could also interpret it as a final goodbye. There's plenty of indications from both of them though. The end of the solo liveshows, which were getting less frequent and shorter before that as well. Things became more obvious after the summer, with Dan pretty much saying he'll return 'whenever'. Phil's hospitalization - if related to his professional life and exhaustion- might have sped things up too. In any case, you don't just stop a series like PINOF, the quintessential symbol of "Dan and Phil", if you're still feeling into the sort of content you make. The way they communicated about it reveals a lot too. No state funeral was given, no they thought it 'obvious' that we would catch on that it had reached it's end.
I can't say they're wrong either. I enjoyed every PINOF, but they just looked increasingly forced. 32 and 28 (?)adults carrying each other around and flirting to their tween* audience with suggestive jokes? Yea, that's how you know that they are acting to please some need of their audience, but not achieve a personal feeling of professional fulfillment.

Happy to see Phil is talking about posting a new video so soon. Could be anything but I guess a bit of a redacted Q&A makes the most sense, since he had already started making it anyway. I hope it leaves us a bit wiser about the general future of AP and DAPG this year. It is really interesting that he's first breaking the news to his paying subscribers, that's def. a break with the past and just strengthens my believe that he's focusing on the highly engaged audience he's built.

*DISCLAIMER: I am not saying that everyone who watches Dan and or Phil is a teen or person is their twenties. There is no right or wrong age to enjoy Dan and Phil imo. The fact is that they draw viewers from all ages. The fact is also that the bulk of their viewers, as far as we know, are people in the middle teens until early 20s age category.
Because it's getting very tiring to see people put all kinds of words in my posts that often aren't there or even implied, let me repeat that I make no judgements about individual viewers or ascribe traits or qualities to them other than the ones I specifically write about. I would hope that we can all have a conversation and can read each others contributions with a charitable mindset, looking not for the worst possible interpretation of somebodies words, but at the gist of what someone is trying to express.
Last edited by Stakhanov on Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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knq wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:41 am Genuinely, things Dan has expressed pride over: his involvement with Young Minds, hearing he’s eased other people’s suffering with his videos, and... the Sims series.

There’s nothing wrong with being ready for some change, but the connection you've made between giving young people advice and being a circus monkey is truly strange to me.
Agreed. I hate this idea that making content that isn't (fake) deep, edgy and/or sexual can't possibly bring an adult joy and they're just doing it to pander to 12-year-olds. Even after said adults have actually expressed that they do indeed like making this type of content. It's tired.
Stakhanov wrote:I always found "Give the people what they want" to be a pretty peculiar slogan. It speaks volumes about what they think about their own content. I would expect a truly impassioned artist, comedian or video creator to define what they make in terms of what it means to themselves. Instead of launching it with the baseline "here's what you want". It's almost like they were distancing themselves from the very show they were bringing.
"Giving the people what they want" was linked to the show being about audience participation. It ain't that deep. Can y'all stop pretending like they hate their own content and their show when they have expressed nothing but joy and pride for what they have created with II? I'm not saying they still want to make the content they made when they were 20, obviously not, but let's not pretend like they're agonising about the "childish" content they make and can't break free from it because their 12-year-old audience won't let them or what.
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The only thing we know about Dan's reasons and motivations is that he doesn't know.
A lot of the problem is that often people are like "Dan, what's he thinking, what's his reason for doing things, what's his motivations, what's his secrets?". I don't know. I don't know.
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Katka wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:26 am
"Giving the people what they want" was linked to the show being about audience participation. It ain't that deep. Can y'all stop pretending like they hate their own content and their show when they have expressed nothing but joy and pride for what they have created with II? I'm not saying they still want to make the content they made when they were 20, obviously not, but let's not pretend like they're agonising about the "childish" content they make and can't break free from it because their 12-year-old audience won't let them or what.
Well, that's one interpretation. I think multiple interpretations can be made and that multiple truths can hide under "Giving the people what they want". Sure, on the most basic level it can be read as "you vote on what we do" and audience participation. That's consistent with my idea that a slogan like "Giving the people what they want" seems to define their own show more through the effect and control it allows to others, rather than a meaning it carries for themselves.

I'm not saying they hate their own content but i have doubts that they feel nothing but joy and pride for what they have created in general on their youtube channels. How much they are limited or boxed in by the wishes of their audience - and themselves- is a different matter that I remember we talked about a week or two ago. Clearly, we read their words at times differently. Also at no point am I pretending I know for sure what he wants. That would be impossible. Most of this forum consists out of speculation. We don't know if they'll move, we don't know what will happen with DAPG, we don't really know what they want to do (they perhaps don't know themselves, or don't want to honestly share it). We don't even know the true nature of their relationship, and the fact that they have denied being a couple doesn't seem to stop a lot of people from thinking they are one anyway. Speculating about their words and motives is pretty much what we are doing all the time here.
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Stakhanov wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:16 am In any case, you don't just stop a series like PINOF, the quintessential symbol of "Dan and Phil", if you're still feeling into the sort of content you make. The way they communicated about it reveals a lot too. No state funeral was given, no they thought it 'obvious' that we would catch on that it had reached it's end.
I don't really want to join this particular discussion, but I just wanted to correct that they didn't both think it was obvious. Dan even said "you can't assume its obvious". Dan was the one who brought the topic up because he wanted to let us know.

(sorry i know this isn't too relevant to your point, but i just noticed that a lot of people spin the narrative that why, i am not sure why)
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black_rat wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:35 am
Stakhanov wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:16 am In any case, you don't just stop a series like PINOF, the quintessential symbol of "Dan and Phil", if you're still feeling into the sort of content you make. The way they communicated about it reveals a lot too. No state funeral was given, no they thought it 'obvious' that we would catch on that it had reached it's end.
I don't really want to join this particular discussion, but I just wanted to correct that they didn't both think it was obvious. Dan even said "you can't assume its obvious". Dan was the one who brought the topic up because he wanted to let us know.

(sorry i know this isn't too relevant to your point, but i just noticed that a lot of people spin the narrative that why, i am not sure why)
That's a good point. I stand corrected. I remember pausing before typing that because I wasn't sure so I decided to go from memory. Which is generally a bad idea :lol:
It's interesting how they seem to prefer different communication styles on a lot of issues. I wonder if it's reflective of their personality or more of a difference in what tactical/strategic approach is the best communication strategy?
My guess would be a bit of both.
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Katka wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:26 am
Stakhanov wrote:I always found "Give the people what they want" to be a pretty peculiar slogan. It speaks volumes about what they think about their own content. I would expect a truly impassioned artist, comedian or video creator to define what they make in terms of what it means to themselves. Instead of launching it with the baseline "here's what you want". It's almost like they were distancing themselves from the very show they were bringing.
"Giving the people what they want" was linked to the show being about audience participation. It ain't that deep. Can y'all stop pretending like they hate their own content and their show when they have expressed nothing but joy and pride for what they have created with II? I'm not saying they still want to make the content they made when they were 20, obviously not, but let's not pretend like they're agonising about the "childish" content they make and can't break free from it because their 12-year-old audience won't let them or what.
Definitely +1, katka. We already know they didn't even have a concept for II until after they'd already decided to do a tour. We saw Dan writing in the week in the life video in the weeks before they started rehearsing. That's one reason the 'tour as their final goodbye' or the insinuations that this is some deep philosophy they're carrying out always fell flat with me. I definitely think Dan was proud of how meta his concept was but I don't think he meant for people to take it as him feeling shame about or walking away from everything he's made before, and I don't understand why people are straight up ignoring how genuinely proud of that show (and the content he made in 2017/2018) he was, or how he and Phil both agreed their audience is older now and seemed quite happy with that.
itasca00 wrote:D: It really changed my perspective on who all of them are going on this tour.
P: I know because, sometimes, people are like, "Oh, wow. Dan and Phil's..."
D: That a lot of people stand out.
P: Yeah, "Dan and Phil's audience are all this one kind of person."
D: No.
P: But they're not. They're such a diverse group.
D: Firstly, y’all are so old.
P: There's lots of--loads of people that've stuck with us for ten years.
D: People are like, "I’m the oldest person here. I’m nineteen."
P: No, you're not.
D: No.
I think there's a lot of projection going on - people who have grown as viewers wanting to be able to point to Dan as someone they can brag about watching still because he's hitting a certain level of pretentiousness or social awareness. I just don't know that Dan would ever want to invite all of the critique and heat that being a social issues youtuber would involve.

In looking at the timestamps I also remembered this exchange:
itasca00 wrote:P: I'm quite easygoing when it comes to my channel-
D: I’m not saying that what I make is great. It’s just that, for me to create, I have to be very intense about it.
I realize intensity and quality feel like they go hand in hand for a lot of people, but I don't necessarily think that's true for Dan. I think you can be quite intense and take something quite seriously even if what you're making isn't gonna change the world. I think Dan took ISG seriously and was - is - proud of it. I think he's intense about self-reflection, and he might want to make videos about that, sure. But like - come on. He's intense about pizza but likes Dominos as much as he does gourmet pizza. He's intense about music but he likes some pop just as much as he does his niche indie music. I think to Dan 'intensity' is a matter of focus and how much of himself he's putting into it, and battling his internal demons when it comes to posting and being judged. I don't think the quality threshold is the end all and be all of that intensity and therefore the only thing holding him back.
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Anyone seen that James Charles (a beauty youtuber) is going on tour and are selling VIP tickets for 500$. And the cheapest ticket is around 60$.

Just made me think about last year when people talked about Dan and Phil's tour prices. Interactive introverts was cheap in comparison.
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Tottrie wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:01 pm Anyone seen that James Charles (a beauty youtuber) is going on tour and are selling VIP tickets for 500$. And the cheapest ticket is around 60$.

Just made me think about last year when people talked about Dan and Phil's tour prices. Interactive introverts was cheap in comparison.
Yes and you have a look at the prices of all the different types of tickets.... Wow, that's a lot of money for a ticket.
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Tottrie wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:01 pm Anyone seen that James Charles (a beauty youtuber) is going on tour and are selling VIP tickets for 500$. And the cheapest ticket is around 60$.

Just made me think about last year when people talked about Dan and Phil's tour prices. Interactive introverts was cheap in comparison.
Anything is cheap in comparison because that's a crazy price. People aren't having it though.
James Charles seems like a very impulsive person, he has always some drama happening around him.
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black_rat wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:35 am
Stakhanov wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:16 am In any case, you don't just stop a series like PINOF, the quintessential symbol of "Dan and Phil", if you're still feeling into the sort of content you make. The way they communicated about it reveals a lot too. No state funeral was given, no they thought it 'obvious' that we would catch on that it had reached it's end.
I don't really want to join this particular discussion, but I just wanted to correct that they didn't both think it was obvious. Dan even said "you can't assume its obvious". Dan was the one who brought the topic up because he wanted to let us know.

(sorry i know this isn't too relevant to your point, but i just noticed that a lot of people spin the narrative that why, i am not sure why)
I also want to chime in on this, just because I see it come up fairly often. I think too much emphasis gets put on this particular moment. While I remember being annoyed with Phil's thinking it was 'obvious' at the time, I don't think it's fair to interpret their interaction here super literally. Dan and Phil often set up their conversations/comedy in opposition to each other. Which of them takes which side in an interaction like that probably doesn't have all that much to do with what they actually think.

Instead of announcing that was the last PINOF directly, they set it up so Dan could do his "this guy" thing and information would be conveyed to us through that interaction. It's very them. I think Dan mis-remembering which of them thought something silly was a good idea, like harping on Phil for wanting to name their Sim dog 'Dil Dog' in a liveshow only for us to see that it was Dan's idea in the gaming video, is an example how interchangeable these things can be, and that they focus more on giving us that interaction than they do on who plays which 'part.'
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I AM SO MAD THEY DIDN'T BUY THE MURDER HOUSE
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Here we've been talking about how great a deppy version of House files would be and they were planning it years ago?!
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i love this video unabashedly
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I'm so happy watching the new Phil video :happytears:

I've enjoyed the rest of this year's videos. I enjoyed the weakest link one a lot and the Easter one too. The Q&A is perfect and I'm so happy! I also now understand the delay with the AD.

It was just so fun, hilarious and there's elements of personal moments with the stories and skincare routine. I honestly wasn't sure why people requested it but I now understand why. It was just so nice and satisfying to watch.

I'll be rewatching again now I've shared my thoughts :lol:
Last edited by Mia on Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Well that video was enjoyable enough
dontpanic wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:13 pm I AM SO MAD THEY DIDN'T BUY THE MURDER HOUSE
They could’ve been an entire episode of Buzzfeed Unsolved 😤 (but also probably dead, so maybe better they didn’t).

Also not to be THAT person (because yes Phil, do your own thing, take your channel back, what the fuck ever), but him giving a Dan-related anecdote without Dan chiming in just made Dan’s lack of real presence anywhere suck again some more.
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Sorry, but like Phil confirming he and Dan were house-hunting after the first tour?? HERE FOR IT. SO VERY VERY HERE FOR IT.

Also, Phil has IDEAS. YESSSSS!

Oh, also I knew Phil was going to do a skincare routine, but I didn't realize he'd be so honest about it? And I really appreciate that! Not sure I'll be using any of those products, but... wonderful regardless. :love2: Next up: CANDLE HAUL PLS.
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this was a really nice video! Just a couple of eye-roll moments, not too much, which is good! that said, I'm kind of disappointed they didn't do a house files show. Please, if they read this, feel free to still go ahead and do something like this :please:

i also love that phil admitted he has a story idea. I hope he finds the right time to actually work on it, I'd love to see what he comes up with.

now, alright phandom, hit me up with all those horror fics where they do buy the murder house
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Phil lester talking unabashedly in a main channel video about buying a house with Dan in 2016? If you need me I'll be watering the grass of Moving Hill with my tears. He didn't pick a subject like that for shit and giggles.

Also glad my theory about the spon delaying the video was correct, I did think it was weird! I loved how relaxed and genuine he sounded in the video too and the April fools prank :happytears: so domestic

Also THE STORY IDEA!! I've been saying I think phil has a future in writing an animated show please Phil I'm begging
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That video title scared me and I thought for a moment it wasn’t the Q&A. Oh what could have been... but did they actually think they could have done a DIY series? That was my favorite part of the video, bless whoever asked that question. :love2:
Still on the :foreverhome: hill. And I finally have hope that they might give us a tour when they move. One day the two flats will just seem like a bad dream.

I’m really excited for Phil’s five (or was it four?) year idea to manifest in some way. That’s wonderful! The spon would have been more appropriate on the gaming channel, but you do what you gotta do Philly.

Also I love his shirt!
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The april fools was so funny. I can believe dan would think phil had a freaking cheese platter for breakfast :lol:
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Phil doesn’t talk about things he doesn’t want to talk about so answering that question leads me to believe he’s testing the waters. Throwing out the fact that it’s nbd for Dan and him to buy a house together sets the narrative that it’s not so when they finally do move it’s not going to be that big of a surprise.

Very smart Phil Lester.

or I’m giving him too much credit and he just picked random questions with his eyes closed
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Amiaw wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:38 pm Phil doesn’t talk about things he doesn’t want to talk about so answering that question leads me to believe he’s testing the waters. Throwing out the fact that it’s nbd for Dan and him to buy a house together sets the narrative that it’s not so when they finally do move it’s not going to be that big of a surprise.
Absolutely think this. It's the 2019 version of 'hey so we totally just need more storage' except with even less careful prefacing.
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Phil is out there putting the idea of a house renovation series in my brain.... I want it NOW :happytears: (same goes for his story idea)
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SO WE COULD HAVE HAD A HOUSE RENOVATING SERIES??

Image

Excuse me as I cry while all my dreams are dead. It's not too late yet boys, just buy a less haunted house! :stan:

Great video tho. Definitely wasn't all cereal and houseplants. I think he struck a great balance between that standard shit and things people actually wanted to know. Though I guess that if Dan's status was all you wanted to know... then tough shit lmao.

Aside from the house flipping thing, my fave parts were his cheese prank on Dan (is it weird that I sometimes forget that Phil still talks to Dan every day?? like he's living in the same universe and everything? it almost sounds fake.) and his skincare routine. Other highlights include the puppy picture, Safiya mention, and the return of that damn vase (and calling it a little glass of water). I'm also very intrigued by what he said about the idea he has for a story how he wants to tell it.
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