Dan & Phil Part 84: Still Alive

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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alittledizzy
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cherrybomb3 wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:04 am absence makes the heart grow fonder/lets the heart maybe talk to the rest of the body
Always happy to see you pop in, cherrybomb, :)
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Stakhanov
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I think they feel ambivalent towards their audience. So both things can be true. They could be both appreciative of their audience and wanting to keep it, but also wanting to change it and feel at odds with it at times. I haven't seen anyone saying they "100% dislike the current fandom". That's quite a dramatic and black-and white statement that I don't think accurately reflects their views. How exactly we read their views and actions is going to be different. It is for about any issue we talk about so I don't think it's going to bring us any closer if I quote a bunch of small and big things that they've said. Also, I don't have like a neatly organized and carefully tagged archive of everything they've ever said. If you think they are free and feel no or very little constraint at all because of their audience, our interpretations of what they've said are probably going to differ too.

That they are boxed in and limited by their brand is my experience as a fan and my read of about everything they've said and done. I'm mostly taking cues from Dan, as Phil tends to keep these thoughts for themselves. I don't feel they'll ever show the back of their tongue on this matter anyway, as I think they are inclined to censor possible negative thoughts they'd have about their audience and are much more incentivized to share their positive thoughts about us.
That said, in a broad sense the fact that they've stopped all this flagship content and gone on hiatus (except for AP, who is also not doing any liveshows anymore) is one example and an indication to me that they weren't to much in love with the content they were making.

I'm a bit confused about the whole paywall argument. If i'm not mistaken you brought up the newspaper industry and how paywalls could hurt engagement. That's not what I had in mind when I said iId rather be charged 5 bucks a month than not see Dan make any content at all. I was thinking of more of a layered, multi-tier experience that could be organized in multiple ways and doesn't have to mean that only paying subscribers or patreons get to view any content. I think a multi-tier model is kind of where we were in 2018 anyway with their main product being a pay-to-see, pay-to-meet world tour and more recently Phil's overtures into developing a community of paid subscribers. Which also means that you will get more content if you pay, if only because of the perks and Phil's messages to the community, or how he's selecting questions for his soon to come (?) FAQ.
Again i'm in favor of any model that would nudge them towards making more personal, "serious" content. That's my preference of their content. Going for the lowest common denominator as I feel they now often do, in part because it suits the tastes of their young audience, is something i'd like to see changed.
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Grey
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I agree that part of why Dan stopped posting could be because of how YouTube works nowadays. If he wasn’t making money from it then it makes sense to stop doing it.

But I kinda doubt Dan would make content even if people were paying for it. He seems to have major procrastination issues regardless of financial incentive. The tours went alright but that was a joint effort between Dan and Phil plus they probably had loads and loads of staff members making sure everything was actually getting done.

Phil seems fine with the content he is producing to me. I’m a bit late but I agree that it’s nice that he is offering an option to support him without making it be a lot that you’re missing out on if you don’t. I think his videos should stay free but it’s fine if he makes other stuff for people to buy (sweaters calendars DVDs books apps etc).
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knq
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I’ve been rewatching their gaming live-streams, possibly a concerning amount really, but they are so good! Gaming in combination with live banter was prime content. It’s also an amazing source of whiny!dan who I always find ridiculously adorable.

I don’t know how much their final livestream gets rewatched because of the lag, but it’s totally worth it for the bants alone. The full on ‘wah wah wah’ whiny Dan at 24:00 is my favorite.
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rizzo
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Stakhanov wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:27 am I detect a little bit of irony in your post, so let me clarify some things that may be (willingly?) misunderstood when I talk about Dan and Phil having a young teen audience and the limits that brings.

There is nothing one can say about one particular person who follows Dan and Phil. One young person of say 15 might be more mature than another adult viewer of 25. What we understand to be "mature" in the context of a "fandom" and the youtuber-audience relationship is quite murky and subjective to begin with. But does this mean nothing can be said and that it doesn't matter that most of their audience aren't adults? No, that would be absurd.
In about every other aspect of society we recognize that a non-adult is still developing. That's why their rights and responsibilities are different from adults. That's why they have legal guardians, why we don't expect them to be financially independent, why we judge them differently in court cases, don't let them drink and don't let them join the army (I would hope, otherwise we're talking child soldiers). The differences aren't limited to legal ones either, we understand that these young people are still cognitively and emotionally developing. I hope nobody would deny that there's certain differences that we see between adults and children on the whole. There's whole strands of science in biology and psychology that back that position.
It stands to reason then that being a (young) teenager will also likely affect what kind of content you want to see from youtubers, as with other media in general. I know it did for me, and about everyone i know. Our preferences changed as we grew older (and still does). That's not to say it's wrong or that you can't like the same things you used to, but the point is that generally speaking there will be differences to e.g. what a 13-15 year old might like to watch vs. what 30+ year olds like to watch. That's why tv-shows and content of all stripes generally will be more or less popular in certain age demographics. So it's something that we see across the board, and something that is in my opinion also at play when Dan and Phil create content for their specific audience.

I wouldn't characterize the Dan and Phil audience as stupid and only caring about silly things, but I think it would be a disservice to ignore that the generally young audience constrains Dan and Phil in some ways, at least if they care at all about keeping this audience.
Stakhanov wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:03 pm That they are boxed in and limited by their brand is my experience as a fan and my read of about everything they've said and done. I'm mostly taking cues from Dan, as Phil tends to keep these thoughts for themselves. I don't feel they'll ever show the back of their tongue on this matter anyway, as I think they are inclined to censor possible negative thoughts they'd have about their audience and are much more incentivized to share their positive thoughts about us.
In the context of Dan and Phil and the diversity of their fandom, I agree with you that everyone is different and it's hard to judge their content preferences, but I will say that arguing that a teenager is more mature than a grown adult is not your best bet given the circumstances. So perhaps, that's not the hill you want to die on right now.

Content teenagers like and content adults like are not mutually exclusive so saying that Dan and Phil have a teenage demographic doesn't inherently imply that they are not making content for adults. Dan and Phil watch Riverdale. So do teenagers. Dan listens to music as do teenagers. Board games. Video games. Movies. Houseplants. All things that Dan and Phil and many other adults like... and that teenagers like. Just because Phil isn't making a video saying "I have an active sex life, financial investments, get up to pee multiple times in the middle of the night, and also do taxes" doesn't mean his content isn't adult, and doesn't mean that he's making content specifically for teenagers. (props to alittledizzy for giving me that one-liner at some point.. still cackling)

I think that the kind of "mature" content we're actually talking about here is something they could easily post and they could do so without abandoning any of their audience. I'm speaking mainly about Dan tbh. I think Phil's posting exactly what he wants to post, regardless of whether anyone does or doesn't like it. We're clearly still here... watching. And as it pertains to Dan, I think the same would apply. He could post whatever he wants and I don't think he's scared of losing his "generally young" audience. I think he's more afraid of what the audience as a whole will say, not whether they will or won't watch.

All this to say, I think their audience doesn't play a very big role in their video-making choices. Not at this point in 2019. They've done nothing but talk about how they're closing this chapter and that chapter and they made a whole tour talking about their relationship with their audience as some kind of last hurrah, because now we're on a new chapter. Now I think they're doing what they wanna do because they've made their money and their engagement and everything else is just incremental (both monetarily and in terms of "life goals").
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Stakhanov
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It might not be the best bet but I'll take it if the odds are right. If you give me 10:000 to one, I fancy my chances of finding a 15 year old who is more mature than a 25 year old and for one particular case it might just work out ;)
But I certainly agree that generally an audience so young would be less mature than an adult audience. That's one of the reasons I'd like the audience age to be older and closer to D&P's own age, as that fact by itself is imo limiting them to do certain things.
Rizzo wrote:Content teenagers like and content adults like are not mutually exclusive so saying that Dan and Phil have a teenage demographic doesn't inherently imply that they are not making content for adults.
I would agree. However I do think that the age of their audience is an important variable that influences the type of content they produce and that it follows that a lot if not all of what they makes is oriented to or at least doesn't conflict with the tastes and wishes of their young audience. Certain content will be less or more fitting for that group. To draw a parallel with film: everybody can enjoy classical Disney movies but they will be less popular in some age groups and more in others. Given that fact, a Disney movie will tend to have less explicit sex scenes, or narco wars (to give two random examples) than say a gritty detective movie that's targeted at another matter.
In short: age plays a role in media preferences (including youtube content), the preference of the audience plays a role in what Dan and Phil create ("Giving the people what they want"). It's but one factor in the broader picture that could explain why their channels and content is where it is, but imo. it's clearly a limiting one.
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rizzo
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Stakhanov wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:53 pm It might not be the best bet but I'll take it if the odds are right. If you give me 10:000 to one, I fancy my chances of finding a 15 year old who is more mature than a 25 year old and for one particular case it might just work out ;)
Are you aware of how gross this sounds coming from an adult with your particular recent history of accusations in phandom?

Where's Phil with an exceptionally well-timed video when I need him? I need his skincare routine asap. Do we think he's a La Mer guy or more Nivea?
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Stakhanov
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I do not care how things might sound in the light of vile, false accusations that I don't even fully know about.
I also don't wish to discuss what i think you're referring to. It has nothing to do with this forum or this discussion. I would ask that you respect my privacy and not bring up some random accusation that quite frankly was deeply unfair and makes me extremely uncomfortable. This isn't relevant to the topic we're talking about. We can all start leveraging cheap accusations and insults (others) might have thrown at us.
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obsessivelymoody
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Oh Phil please hit publish on that vid, we'd like to be fed thank you.

Anywayyyy I was going through my saved playlists on spotify trying to find a song when I remembered that I saved their "Cinematic Chillout" playlist because Phil had mentioned it in a liveshow. Which was a blessing because I still listen to it often, and it actually helps me focus when doing work. (And maybe makes me think about and get soft over Dan and Phil's differences in music tastes and consumption, and how they still listen to Muse together and Phil listens to Dan listening to new albums. Siiiiigh)

But from that, I went through my apps a little later and saw that I still have Rolling Sky downloaded, despite probably not using it since early 2017 (which is funny because I got this particular phone mid 2017 which means I definitely thought I'd pick it up again at some point lol). I'm probably going to delete it but it's still nice to think about Phil talking about it in liveshows and having those moments with both of them talking about the game and little competition type stuff lol.

Both of those just made me think about, whole of course that's them being influencers in a nutshell, how nice it is to have connections like that and sometimes embrace it as your own from what they've recommended.

So, while I have a million more ways they've influenced me lol, does anyone else have anything similar? Something lasting like saving a playlist a few years back and still listening to it? Or maybe even something recent?
bevioletsky
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I’ve been rather confused by this discussion and now we’ve apparently arrived at ‘more children than adults watch Disney movies’. K?
rizzo wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:11 pmWhere's Phil with an exceptionally well-timed video when I need him? I need his skincare routine asap. Do we think he's a La Mer guy or more Nivea?
Nivea, definitely. Capita£ester etc. Plus I’d personally choose so many Nivea products over the insanely overpriced stuff that La Mer tends to be, a great example of the brand making up the cost of a product rather than the actual ingredients. Yes I’ve spent far too many hours reading r/skincareaddiction over the years.
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bevioletsky wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:37 pm I’ve been rather confused by this discussion and now we’ve apparently arrived at ‘more children than adults watch Disney movies’. K?
rizzo wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:11 pmWhere's Phil with an exceptionally well-timed video when I need him? I need his skincare routine asap. Do we think he's a La Mer guy or more Nivea?
Nivea, definitely. Capita£ester etc. Plus I’d personally choose so many Nivea products over the insanely overpriced stuff that La Mer tends to be, a great example of the brand making up the cost of a product rather than the actual ingredients. Yes I’ve spent far too many hours reading r/skincareaddiction over the years.
Yeah, I don't see him going into the fancy route with his skincare, and he does love over processed products. Or maybe he goes somewhere in the middle, like Lush. They used their bath bombs I think, do they not?
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alittledizzy
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bevioletsky wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:37 pm
rizzo wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:11 pmWhere's Phil with an exceptionally well-timed video when I need him? I need his skincare routine asap. Do we think he's a La Mer guy or more Nivea?
Nivea, definitely. Capita£ester etc. Plus I’d personally choose so many Nivea products over the insanely overpriced stuff that La Mer tends to be, a great example of the brand making up the cost of a product rather than the actual ingredients. Yes I’ve spent far too many hours reading r/skincareaddiction over the years.
I hope whatever company Phil inadvertently spons in his skincare routine segment sees the influencer-led rush on product and pulls a Faberge. I need Phil Lester as the face of a skincare line, stat.
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rizzo
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alittledizzy wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:41 pm
bevioletsky wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:37 pm
rizzo wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:11 pmWhere's Phil with an exceptionally well-timed video when I need him? I need his skincare routine asap. Do we think he's a La Mer guy or more Nivea?
Nivea, definitely. Capita£ester etc. Plus I’d personally choose so many Nivea products over the insanely overpriced stuff that La Mer tends to be, a great example of the brand making up the cost of a product rather than the actual ingredients. Yes I’ve spent far too many hours reading r/skincareaddiction over the years.
I hope whatever company Phil inadvertently spons in his skincare routine segment sees the influencer-led rush on product and pulls a Faberge. I need Phil Lester as the face of a skincare line, stat.
omgggg can you IMAGINE? Phil's Rainbow-Scented Soap & Glory Cleanser. sign. me. up.
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rizzo wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:46 pm
alittledizzy wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:41 pm
bevioletsky wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:37 pm
rizzo wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:11 pmWhere's Phil with an exceptionally well-timed video when I need him? I need his skincare routine asap. Do we think he's a La Mer guy or more Nivea?
Nivea, definitely. Capita£ester etc. Plus I’d personally choose so many Nivea products over the insanely overpriced stuff that La Mer tends to be, a great example of the brand making up the cost of a product rather than the actual ingredients. Yes I’ve spent far too many hours reading r/skincareaddiction over the years.
I hope whatever company Phil inadvertently spons in his skincare routine segment sees the influencer-led rush on product and pulls a Faberge. I need Phil Lester as the face of a skincare line, stat.
omgggg can you IMAGINE? Phil's Rainbow-Scented Soap & Glory Cleanser. sign. me. up.
Fuck, great thinking you guys. This is the merch I would be here for. This, or some exorbitantly priced candles.

Also, liola, Lush is a p good call. Disgustingly strong scents and a little bit fancier but not too bougee. Cruelty free as well, that’s nice.
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i wonder what phil means by technical difficulties? and how long will the video take?

but i'm excited that he's uploading something this week.
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liola
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That was communication, right?

I didn't imagine it? He communicated with us, directly, his audience, without much detail cause we don't need it but letting us know?

Man I need a DRINK tonight!
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alittledizzy
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said it before but stakhanov is a top tier username
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Let’s hear your theories on what the “new video later this week” will be. I don’t have any idea yet but pretty sure new merch would feature heavily. RIP Easter baking though. :(
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glitterintheair
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Technical issues were definitely about merch. Not idea about the other video, though. I really can't imagine Easter Baking but I hope Phil is aware of the fact that saying that a video that's not the q&a might be coming later this week when it's so close to easter is gonna make people hope for exactly that.
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I’m still banking on an Easter-something, but with the requisite merch spon. Maybe a cameo from Dan to break the anxiety that’s been building, but it would be odd and slightly trollish if they just post a baking video together like everything is normal. Now if they want to film an Easter themed mukbang and use that to break the tension and deliver some updates, I’d be all for that!

Technical issues sounds fishy... definitely merch related (unless Phil’s entire system collapsed since he had to film from more than 1 position).
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Ahh.. @glitterintheair I just wanna say that seeing your profile pic right below mine did something to my heart. :love2:
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obvsly wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:06 pm Ahh.. @glitterintheair I just wanna say that seeing your profile pic right below mine did something to my heart. :love2:
Oh my :happytears: thank you for pointing that out because now I'm feelings things too. Bless. :love2:
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Phantasy wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:57 pm I’m still banking on an Easter-something, but with the requisite merch spon. Maybe a cameo from Dan to break the anxiety that’s been building, but it would be odd and slightly trollish if they just post a baking video together like everything is normal. Now if they want to film an Easter themed mukbang and use that to break the tension and deliver some updates, I’d be all for that!

Technical issues sounds fishy... definitely merch related (unless Phil’s entire system collapsed since he had to film from more than 1 position).
See, I was wondering earlier if the delay in posting the Q&A was maybe a way to avoid doing an Easter themed video, but now I'm definitely thinking merch related, so still hoping for that traditional baking, nothing wrong with trollish in my books :D
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Isn’t the whole point of Easter miraculous, unexpected returns from the dead? :lol:

Damnit, mustn’t get my hopes up...

Also I picked up the unicorn shower gel today because it was so cheap (I wonder if imperial leather will notice a lil rise in sales?) ... I expected it to be a candy-scented bubblegummy horror but to my surprise it’s actually quite nice; cleaner-smelling than I imagined. I might get it again. 🦄
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