Yeah, I'm actually too. I was surprised they wanted to keep the mystery of phan alive. This would've been a perfect opportunity to clarify it. And I don't really agree with Dan's reasoning - surely it would be easier to be 'spontaneous' and all that if people weren't still trying to find (anti) phan proof? I understand they want to keep things private, but it wouldn't have to be a commercial for anybody else even if they admitted (or denied) it.RiriPandaHeart2 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:05 amWith regard to them making their current status ambiguous, I'm actually confused.
Dan & Phil Part 85: the phildom
You should never go to sleep on an argument.
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ladyknight1512
- squish
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:54 am
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
I feel like there's more expectation if they confirm it. Like, if they say, yes, we're still together, that opens the door for viewers to demand a certain kind of more intimate behaviour, or at least the potential for it. If they deny, that potentially comes with quesitons about what happened. By neither confirming nor denying I feel they're basically dealing with the same questions and expectations they had before, which they're obviously used to.
Last edited by ladyknight1512 on Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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alittledizzy
- actual demon phannie
- Posts: 7101
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:09 pm
- Pronouns: she/her
I'm not gonna quote anyone bc this is actually a version of what I sent someone privately on tumblr when they asked me about it, but just to add to the general conversation... here's my take on what people are interpreting as relationship ambiguity.
In the video, he talked about how they met in context of the fact that his video followed a narrative timeline of events of his life through his acceptance of sexuality. Because he was telling stories of his life in order of when they happened to him, everything he was saying was past tense. His entire video up to the chapter where he began speaking about his current acceptance was past tense. He wasn’t stopping his video to tell us about him and Phil. He was referencing, with absolute honesty, that point of his life in 2009. I don't think there was any way he could make an honest video about his life without including that, and I think their relative 'mystery' around the relationship was something they felt ready to sacrifice for Dan's mission here.
The only time he deviated from that was when he said that he and Phil are private people and don’t want to monetize their personal life. That’s not in past tense.
So it seems pretty clear to me that he felt like it was important to share what Phil was to him in 2009 because it was part of the past-tense story he was telling about himself in 2009, but he paused that narrative to say that he’s not talking about him and Phil today because, privacy. His relationship with Phil today, in it’s current form, is what he wants privacy about, because he is a private person ‘and so is Phil.’ If his current relationship weren't with Phil, didn't involve Phil, it would have been very easy to leave Phil out of that present-tense aside. So to me, that does not at all speak to their relationship in its entirety being past tense, it’s just Dan basically saying ‘Phil’s the point in my life in which things turned around, this is what he’s done for me, but we’re both private people so that’s all the detail you’re getting.’
And I do think that's absolutely fair. He's immediately taking an axe to the expectation that their on-camera behavior will change by saying that their relationship is (to borrow from his commentary on 2011-them) theirs and personal. He's clarifying that we will get no further insight on their romance, their sex life, etc. That we will not be privy to the ins and outs of what they do behind closed doors. I think that's a very good expectation for him to manage because they're already aware of the scrutiny they'll be under (from fans and peers alike, I'd wager) but with that immediate firm statement he's undercutting people's ability to feel angry or cheated when nothing more personal than we got before is offered.
But I'm fine with that. Because what we already were getting is just fucking magical. The parts that Dan just glowed with pride about, them being best friends, companions through life, soulmates - getting to see that is absolutely plenty for me.
In the video, he talked about how they met in context of the fact that his video followed a narrative timeline of events of his life through his acceptance of sexuality. Because he was telling stories of his life in order of when they happened to him, everything he was saying was past tense. His entire video up to the chapter where he began speaking about his current acceptance was past tense. He wasn’t stopping his video to tell us about him and Phil. He was referencing, with absolute honesty, that point of his life in 2009. I don't think there was any way he could make an honest video about his life without including that, and I think their relative 'mystery' around the relationship was something they felt ready to sacrifice for Dan's mission here.
The only time he deviated from that was when he said that he and Phil are private people and don’t want to monetize their personal life. That’s not in past tense.
So it seems pretty clear to me that he felt like it was important to share what Phil was to him in 2009 because it was part of the past-tense story he was telling about himself in 2009, but he paused that narrative to say that he’s not talking about him and Phil today because, privacy. His relationship with Phil today, in it’s current form, is what he wants privacy about, because he is a private person ‘and so is Phil.’ If his current relationship weren't with Phil, didn't involve Phil, it would have been very easy to leave Phil out of that present-tense aside. So to me, that does not at all speak to their relationship in its entirety being past tense, it’s just Dan basically saying ‘Phil’s the point in my life in which things turned around, this is what he’s done for me, but we’re both private people so that’s all the detail you’re getting.’
And I do think that's absolutely fair. He's immediately taking an axe to the expectation that their on-camera behavior will change by saying that their relationship is (to borrow from his commentary on 2011-them) theirs and personal. He's clarifying that we will get no further insight on their romance, their sex life, etc. That we will not be privy to the ins and outs of what they do behind closed doors. I think that's a very good expectation for him to manage because they're already aware of the scrutiny they'll be under (from fans and peers alike, I'd wager) but with that immediate firm statement he's undercutting people's ability to feel angry or cheated when nothing more personal than we got before is offered.
But I'm fine with that. Because what we already were getting is just fucking magical. The parts that Dan just glowed with pride about, them being best friends, companions through life, soulmates - getting to see that is absolutely plenty for me.
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ladyknight1512
- squish
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:54 am
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
This is only vaguely related but I have to say: I was binging some gaming vids tonight and I watched the one where Tabitha moved in and they were checking out her stats and in her relationship with Dil, they're described as "Best friends, lovebirds, soulmates."
I SOBBED.
I SOBBED.
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captainspacecoat
- stress mushroom
- Posts: 605
- Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:31 am
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: Australia
For me, Dan explicitly confirming that they've "obviously" been romantically involved, and stating it was "more than just romance" and that they are "companions through life" and "actual soulmates", and describing their relationship as "ours and personal", and telling us about how being with Phil was the first time in his life he felt truly safe, and that they're so compatible etc etc etc PLUS all of the wider context like them staying at a two-bedroom villa in Queensland last year with Martyn and Cornelia, and the fact that they've lived in three different houses together over the past 8 years, and Dan spending time on the IoM with Phil's family, and "maybe it'll be an ugly mongrel we adopt" etc etc.. makes it fairly obvious to me that they are together.
Of course, Dan also made it clear that he and Phil are both private people who want to keep their relationship private, and that they don't want to turn their relationship into a spectacle, and thus he chose not to elaborate any further. He politely but firmly established well-deserved boundaries while also willingly revealing so much more than I ever expected him to about the nature of his and Phil's relationship. Basically, I think it's reasonable to assume based off this video and also the wider context of how generally entwined their lives still are in 2019 that they are still in a relationship, and that it's something they value so deeply that they will continue to keep it private rather than cashing in on it for clicks or whatever.
Of course, Dan also made it clear that he and Phil are both private people who want to keep their relationship private, and that they don't want to turn their relationship into a spectacle, and thus he chose not to elaborate any further. He politely but firmly established well-deserved boundaries while also willingly revealing so much more than I ever expected him to about the nature of his and Phil's relationship. Basically, I think it's reasonable to assume based off this video and also the wider context of how generally entwined their lives still are in 2019 that they are still in a relationship, and that it's something they value so deeply that they will continue to keep it private rather than cashing in on it for clicks or whatever.
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snokoplasmic
- procrastinator
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 12:08 pm
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: New York
I agree with literally everything that alittledizzy said! If the rest of the video weren't there and all that he said was the stuff about Phil in past tense, I'd probably be thinking that they broke up at some point, but the entire video was in past tense, so it just makes sense in context. He talks about how at the time that he met Phil, it was exactly what he needed then and at the time that he/they were getting more popular and there was more invasiveness, he guarded their relationship as he viewed it as something personal to them that they didn't want to have on show. It makes sense for that to all be in past tense. And, of course, as dizzy said, the only thing regarding his relationship with Phil that was in present tense was his explaining that they are private people.
And honestly, as for Dan being thirsty throughout the whole entire video (like jfc lmao calm yourself, Dan), I fully believe that that's a combination of the fact that Dan 1. make jokes, and 2. likes attention. Not in a bad way! There's nothing inherently wrong with that, it's just that...he does. his occasional thotty ig post doesn't come for no reason, yknow
And honestly, as for Dan being thirsty throughout the whole entire video (like jfc lmao calm yourself, Dan), I fully believe that that's a combination of the fact that Dan 1. make jokes, and 2. likes attention. Not in a bad way! There's nothing inherently wrong with that, it's just that...he does. his occasional thotty ig post doesn't come for no reason, yknow
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glitterintheair
- phillluminati
- Posts: 816
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:56 am
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- Location: Italy
- Contact:
Unrelated but it's really nice to see dnp's socialblade pages fully green after dan's video.
I'm a winter flower underground, always thirsty for summer rain.
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anathema
- morning quiff
- Posts: 463
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:10 pm
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: hell
Sorry to be that person, but when was this?
I’m afraid my two year break from the phandom means I both missed out on things and also forgot half the stuff that happened up until then, my d&p knowledge is lacking.
"The saltiness reminds me of my tears."
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annabanana
- sofa crease
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:50 pm
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: United States
just rewatched it this morning...starts around 1:30!
Have a red velvet cupcake and for fucks sake, dip some toast in your soup. Bye.
Basically I'm Gay is the only video I watch now. 
Some late to the party thoughts I've had:
Some late to the party thoughts I've had: - I finally have a dnp-approved label to offer my mother the next time she asks if Dan and Phil are brothers: "true best friends, soulmates, and companions through life." Thank you, Daniel.
- I'm so impressed with Dan for putting his journey into historical context. We know Dan can explore the depths of his own psyche at length, but it takes a broader analysis, more research, and a different kind of bravery to state something you believe to be true or have been true about the world generally. I don't think he's made other videos where he does that. It's impressive. I'm impressed.
As confusing and even restrictive as the many words we have for intimate feelings may seem now, I quite like how many different ways of identifying oneself circulate nowadays. It's less about identifying the perfect one for yourself and more the knowing that there are many ways of being. - I've forgotten the the other thoughts I wanted to share now, so I think I'll just go back to listening to Basically I'm Gay while spending way too much time modding a hairstyle in the Sims so Dan's fringe can face the correct direction. Oh oh, which actually: "We love working together" gave me some hope for the return of simsy/gaming/Dan and Phil making stuff together videos.
- Newly added: I'm loving all the support Dan is getting, is accepting, and is now offering others on social media. A good bean surrounded by other good beans.
Last edited by knq on Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RiriPandaHeart2
- phabergé
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:54 pm
Sorry for replying generally. Thank you to everyone who gave their thoughts on the matter I asked. 
Before anything else, I just want to clarify that I do think they're together until now. I also do not demand that they clarify it. I was merely trying to understand their possible reasons on the matter on why they didn't say it as explicitly as they could have. I'm sorry if I sounded demanding or insistent. I really didn't mean to be.
But thinking on your answers, I do agree now that there's not much ambiguity as I initially thought. So thanks for bringing this perspective up, especially to @alittledizzy's very illuminating post.
I do understand their need for privacy. I guess I was just trying to point out that since they made the admission that they have been together at one point, they would be facing the same query that they would face if they more explicitly admitted that it was still their current status. But the point has been raised that they would be facing more public scrutiny and demand for details if the latter scenario was what happened. I admit I didn't take that into account. But then, looking back at the other confirmed YT relationships that I do know of, you're right that they would face more insistent questions and demands for a coupley type of video, and stories about their relationship, for a while after the admission (tbh, the first pairing that came to my mind was Joey-Daniel since I was casually in that fandom when the big reveal happened there). I'm actually curious about how Dip & Pip are gonna go about this after the reveal. All of the YT couples I knew of caved and did boyfriend or girlfriend tags, told the details of their relationship, etc. which Dan explicitly said they won't do. i agree with most posters that said that I don't think we're gonna get much change in content except more explicit male attraction probably.
I can now see that even if they do privately fall out, we'll most likely not know about it. So thanks for that. i also agree with what that the simplest explanation is that they're still together. 
Tbh, i don't think that they're still dealing with the same type of expectations as before even if they did not very explicitly confirm or deny the current status. The fact that their relationship is "confirmed" in the eyes of the majority, already shifted expectations. I see more pleas for more explicit casual intimacy in possible future joint videos (though the ones I've seen are respectful and directed at their friends rather than Deppy themselves). (Also, a wish for that isn't bad. As long as it doesn't reach Deppy and is kept within the fandom circles, it's all good. I also would very much want that).
I guess my query was answered the most with this part:
P.s. : I'm also rewatching past videos and being sappy and mushy because of the #hitsdifferent posts on Twitter. 
Before anything else, I just want to clarify that I do think they're together until now. I also do not demand that they clarify it. I was merely trying to understand their possible reasons on the matter on why they didn't say it as explicitly as they could have. I'm sorry if I sounded demanding or insistent. I really didn't mean to be.
But thinking on your answers, I do agree now that there's not much ambiguity as I initially thought. So thanks for bringing this perspective up, especially to @alittledizzy's very illuminating post.
I do understand their need for privacy. I guess I was just trying to point out that since they made the admission that they have been together at one point, they would be facing the same query that they would face if they more explicitly admitted that it was still their current status. But the point has been raised that they would be facing more public scrutiny and demand for details if the latter scenario was what happened. I admit I didn't take that into account. But then, looking back at the other confirmed YT relationships that I do know of, you're right that they would face more insistent questions and demands for a coupley type of video, and stories about their relationship, for a while after the admission (tbh, the first pairing that came to my mind was Joey-Daniel since I was casually in that fandom when the big reveal happened there). I'm actually curious about how Dip & Pip are gonna go about this after the reveal. All of the YT couples I knew of caved and did boyfriend or girlfriend tags, told the details of their relationship, etc. which Dan explicitly said they won't do. i agree with most posters that said that I don't think we're gonna get much change in content except more explicit male attraction probably.
I can now see that even if they do privately fall out, we'll most likely not know about it. So thanks for that.
i also agree with what that the simplest explanation is that they're still together. Tbh, i don't think that they're still dealing with the same type of expectations as before even if they did not very explicitly confirm or deny the current status. The fact that their relationship is "confirmed" in the eyes of the majority, already shifted expectations. I see more pleas for more explicit casual intimacy in possible future joint videos (though the ones I've seen are respectful and directed at their friends rather than Deppy themselves). (Also, a wish for that isn't bad. As long as it doesn't reach Deppy and is kept within the fandom circles, it's all good. I also would very much want that).
I guess my query was answered the most with this part:
I can now see how them being not as explicit as they could be a way to cut off demands for details about their relationship so thanks for that.alittledizzy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:20 pm And I do think that's absolutely fair. He's immediately taking an axe to the expectation that their on-camera behavior will change by saying that their relationship is (to borrow from his commentary on 2011-them) theirs and personal. He's clarifying that we will get no further insight on their romance, their sex life, etc. That we will not be privy to the ins and outs of what they do behind closed doors. I think that's a very good expectation for him to manage because they're already aware of the scrutiny they'll be under (from fans and peers alike, I'd wager) but with that immediate firm statement he's undercutting people's ability to feel angry or cheated when nothing more personal than we got before is offered.
But I'm fine with that. Because what we already were getting is just fucking magical. The parts that Dan just glowed with pride about, them being best friends, companions through life, soulmates - getting to see that is absolutely plenty for me.
P.s. : I'm also rewatching past videos and being sappy and mushy because of the #hitsdifferent posts on Twitter.
P: What are you doing?
D: I'm feeding it to you.
P: Why is it so slow?
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anathema
- morning quiff
- Posts: 463
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:10 pm
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: hell
Thanks!annabanana wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:54 pm
just rewatched it this morning...starts around 1:30!
I didn't realize how different interactions between them would feel with the knowledge that they truly are (or were, but let's face it, are) romantically involved
"The saltiness reminds me of my tears."
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autumnhearth
- senpai
- Posts: 1726
- Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:44 am
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: OH, USA
I absolutely agree with alittledizzy, captainspacecoat and snokoplasm. The tense didn’t phase me at all. The thirsty jokes did give me pause, but the only thing niggling at the back of my mind is Dan saying he has commitment issues. That could apply to any number of things and whether their relationship is monogamous or not is no one’s business but their’s and shouldn’t have any affect on how I view their love (I’m not opposed to polyamory at all, I only recognize that it’s complicated and takes special very trusting people). Deep breaths, what they have is beautiful, always has been.
Oh and I cried for the first time this morning, not sure what was holding me back the last two days, but it’s good to get it out. I just want to give Dan (and Phil) a big hug. Anyone going to the M&G please give them an extra squeeze.
Oh and I cried for the first time this morning, not sure what was holding me back the last two days, but it’s good to get it out. I just want to give Dan (and Phil) a big hug. Anyone going to the M&G please give them an extra squeeze.
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LtrllySusan
- lava lamp
- Posts: 954
- Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 4:09 pm
Something that just crossed my mind - do you guys remember that formspring answer about if Dan's ever been in love? He actually talks about all 3 in his video. I guess the "first one" is the unrequited boy crush?
I'm still not ready to write out my full thoughts on the video, I'm processing it and just feeling so much love for Dan, and Phil as well, and DanAndPhil as the duo they are in life.
I want to say the thirsty comments from Dan didn't bother me much. It's just his brand of humor, and it's something we've already seen in the past. When Dan said "poly" I thought he may have meant polysexual as opposed to polyamorous. I personally don't really see them as anything but monogamous, but this is just my opinion and everyone else's is just as valid as mine. It's a wild shot in the dark and I don't want to project my thoughts onto Dan, when I very well may be wrong - again, this is just a hunch.
As for whether they're still an item: I think that if he wanted to "disprove" that they are still together, he would have done so in a clear way. This was him coming clean - he wouldn't have left loose ends unless they were tied to something he still actively wanted to protect; to keep "ours and personal".
As with many things in the world of Dan and Phil, we have to take context into account. Imagine they really broke up years ago. Would they still have moved places together, spent vacations together, shared rooms on said vacation? Would Dan still call Phil his soulmate and companion through life? Would they have planned to buy a place together and adopt a dog? I know there is a 0.1% chance that they would have, but honestly, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's probably not a hippo.
They're together and happy and Dan finally felt ready to share that. He couldn't have so honestly and openly shared his story without mentioning Phil, and they were ready for it, but they don't intend to suddenly become one of those couples that share literally everything. Which, like alittledizy said, is more than fine by me. Because we now have context from two sides: what we know, and what Dan said.
(I realize that the "phan" portion of the video is really quite small in comparison to the unimaginable power of the rest of it. This is what I mean when I say I'm not ready to write out my full thoughts yet. I'm still processing. But I love Dan so much and I'm proud of him.)
I want to say the thirsty comments from Dan didn't bother me much. It's just his brand of humor, and it's something we've already seen in the past. When Dan said "poly" I thought he may have meant polysexual as opposed to polyamorous. I personally don't really see them as anything but monogamous, but this is just my opinion and everyone else's is just as valid as mine. It's a wild shot in the dark and I don't want to project my thoughts onto Dan, when I very well may be wrong - again, this is just a hunch.
As for whether they're still an item: I think that if he wanted to "disprove" that they are still together, he would have done so in a clear way. This was him coming clean - he wouldn't have left loose ends unless they were tied to something he still actively wanted to protect; to keep "ours and personal".
As with many things in the world of Dan and Phil, we have to take context into account. Imagine they really broke up years ago. Would they still have moved places together, spent vacations together, shared rooms on said vacation? Would Dan still call Phil his soulmate and companion through life? Would they have planned to buy a place together and adopt a dog? I know there is a 0.1% chance that they would have, but honestly, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's probably not a hippo.
They're together and happy and Dan finally felt ready to share that. He couldn't have so honestly and openly shared his story without mentioning Phil, and they were ready for it, but they don't intend to suddenly become one of those couples that share literally everything. Which, like alittledizy said, is more than fine by me. Because we now have context from two sides: what we know, and what Dan said.
(I realize that the "phan" portion of the video is really quite small in comparison to the unimaginable power of the rest of it. This is what I mean when I say I'm not ready to write out my full thoughts yet. I'm still processing. But I love Dan so much and I'm proud of him.)
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kavat
- pastel persona
- Posts: 1367
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:36 pm
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: scandinavia
I just want to say that this is so well put, thank you for this perspectiveknq wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:12 pm As confusing and even restrictive as the many words we have for intimate feelings may seem now, I quite like how many different ways of identifying oneself circulate nowadays. It's less about identifying the perfect one for yourself and more the knowing that there are many ways of being.
I did notice that as well, especially as it was also referencing his family (didn’t he attribute some of his commitment issues to them?). It also made me remember us all commenting on Phil being seemingly anti-commitment during some DAPG videos, though I’m forgetting which ones at the moment. So that made me laughautumnhearth wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:18 pm I absolutely agree with alittledizzy, captainspacecoat and snokoplasm. The tense didn’t phase me at all. The thirsty jokes did give me pause, but the only thing niggling at the back of my mind is Dan saying he has commitment issues. That could apply to any number of things and whether their relationship is monogamous or not is no one’s business but their’s and shouldn’t have any affect on how I view their love (I’m not opposed to polyamory at all, I only recognize that it’s complicated and takes special very trusting people). Deep breaths, what they have is beautiful, always has been.
Oh and I cried for the first time this morning, not sure what was holding me back the last two days, but it’s good to get it out. I just want to give Dan (and Phil) a big hug. Anyone going to the M&G please give them an extra squeeze.
I did also take the comment into the context of - he can’t/doesn’t feel comfortable committing to lots of things, such as creative choices, video ideas, etc.
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SquishPhan
- capita£ester
- Posts: 2502
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:18 pm
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: The Netherlands
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Grumpybisexual
- delia smith
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 11:23 am
- Pronouns: She/her
- Location: France
So he's really out there living his best life, uh? 
(That last picture though 
)
(That last picture though
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LtrllySusan
- lava lamp
- Posts: 954
- Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 4:09 pm
I feel very uneasy about the angle that he's holding the cake at in the first photo.
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flarequake
- not an airport stalker
- Posts: 2680
- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:55 pm
- Pronouns: She/her
- Location: London, UK
Now that’s a pretty cake 
Rainbow layers inside too! Licking it like that (anyone remember “let’s get mildly suggestive!”?), I love a cheeky monkey. Fun photos, and they even went outside (are they in a field or just a very grassy garden, or park?) I laughed so loud.
Rainbow layers inside too! Licking it like that (anyone remember “let’s get mildly suggestive!”?), I love a cheeky monkey. Fun photos, and they even went outside (are they in a field or just a very grassy garden, or park?) I laughed so loud.-
ravenreyes
- sofa crease
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:02 pm
- Pronouns: she/her
- Location: Sweden
lmao that's amazing
and that first photo makes me so happy!!
also i've gone down the rabbit hole the last couple of days and rewatched a lot of videos i haven't seen in a long time and wow i'd almost forgotten how happy d&p can make me
i even ended up kind of resurrecting my d&p tumblr bc i guess i'm in too deep again lol
and that first photo makes me so happy!!
also i've gone down the rabbit hole the last couple of days and rewatched a lot of videos i haven't seen in a long time and wow i'd almost forgotten how happy d&p can make me
i even ended up kind of resurrecting my d&p tumblr bc i guess i'm in too deep again lol
english is not my first language