Dan & Phil Part 86: here, queer & full of existential fear

[knq]

On the cyclical nature of the phandom: I was reading 2012 tweets to see if the DanHowell twitter account ever actually belonged to Dan (it probs did) and the overwhelming response to Dan reserving an account with his name instead of the danisnotonfire handle was panic over the idea that Dan must be planning to abandon YouTube.

[Grey]

This continued speculation stresses me out (so I’m going to contribute to it, naturally). I’ve always been someone who refused to get to the point of fully believing in “phan” until they confirmed it. When I watched the video, I thought Daniel did confirm it... (and Phil added to it with his tweet).

Actually, when he said that they WERE obviously more than friends, I thought he was going to say they broke up, which is why he was telling us now and all the joint branding was killed. But then when he said the soulmate bit, I thought that was confirmation. Surely they wouldn’t be soulmates if they broke up?

I do kind of see how people can interpret ambiguity still... oh no not again... ahh

But everything about that video felt intentional... including the word “obviously”. And if it was obvious then, it still seems just as obvious to me now.

Also I want to quote this because I agree so much:

I love coming in and talking about things that aren't the current topics of discussion but I can't stop thinking about how courageous it is to come out and confirm your almost decade long relationship just a month before going to vidcon where you haven't been in a few years. Not to mention vidcon being the biggest youtuber convention where you have way more than just your own viewers present but also many of your peers and all of their viewers.

It's just...I can't imagine what vidcon is going to feel like for them. Will it feel totally different and new for them or will it be same old same old?

I'm so proud of them and I want everything to go really well for them. I really hope everyone in their m&g is super cool and chill lmao.

[itasca00]

but the fact that Dan didn't give the impression of having only been with Phil since the end of 2009.

I do disagree with you strongly, but I'm curious to know why you believe this? Dan didn't say anything about his personal or romantic past 2009 aside from talking briefly about his relationship with Phil in 2011 ("ours and personal") and I've watched that video enough times to practically have it memorized.

In fact, the only explicit reference to sex he really made at all aside from things that are just as valid within a relationship (as in, that he has sex) was phrased as being immediately before Phil.

I have to admit there wasn't a single point that I remember, and I have only watched the video once. It was the general impression I got and I could very well be completely wrong. However, I do think Dan and Phil are together, and monogamous or not their relationship is like out of a film.

Also I wasn't trying to say gay couples can't commit to serious dating, I was just quoting my dad who has been in a gay relationship for 10+ years and whose friends are mostly also long term gay couples (we live in the south of Europe).

You may be thinking about the part at 22:05 ( thanks itasca00!):

"Wow, I had a lot of fun with many different kinds of people in 2009. Let's just say: I got a lot out of my system. Got a couple of things in my system too. Sorry. "

When did Dan have this fun? While still with his girlfriend? During the few days or weeks between her and Phil? Coincident with the early days of Phil? All three? It certainly seems likely to me that that fun didn't stop when he started with Phil. He implies that it stopped after 2009, though there perhaps wasn't a hard cut off even then. Wasn't it in reference to the 2009 New Year's Eve party that he tweeted Phil would have to keep him on a tight leash?

Yes, Dan jokes, but there is usually truth in jest.

I will reassert that I believe that they are in a committed long term relationship. But I also think that Dan's told us enough that we should be open to the idea that in fact they have a open relationship. And that's ok if that's what works for them! And their relationship seems to be working great.

Once again, I really agree with what you've said above!

There are also other parts of the video that stand out to me. When Dan talks about "who I be fucking, when, why, where, how long, how" ([23:52]), he could just be talking about Phil, and he could be talking about the people in his past...but it kinda doesn't sound like it to my ear.

Then there's this part: "And, trust me, I’ve known a lot of 'straight guys' until a couple of drinks, some deep conversation, and lingering eye contact. And suddenly they just start leaning in" ([36:59]). Of course, Dan doesn't specify what happened next, but...there's definitely the possibility that he didn't reject their advances. You could also believe that all of these experiences happened when Dan was a teenager, but, again, it doesn't sound like it to my ear.

Then there's this part: "Am I slightly more gay, or is it just easier for gays to hook up with each other because of societal norms?" ([37:10]). Yet again, Dan could be referring exclusively to experiences he had as a teenager, but it just doesn't sound like it to my ear.

As others have said, one thing this video absolutely does not leave ambiguous is how Dan feels about Phil. Their commitment to and love for each other is real. It's beautiful. And it's forever.

[eevee]

Hey guys.

Uh.

Well to celebrate I have a google drive link to a bunch of formspring asks, i screenshotted them all in late 2011 before they got taken down. Or maybe it was someone I know and not me. The screenshotter is anonymous. Anyway some of these I'm told were never released before? So. I feel like it's okay now. DM me for the link.

[uwu]

I don't know if it's just because I'm very new to this forum, but I feel like all this speculation is a bit much. I mean, sure, speculating is the point of this forum, but it seems like we're reading too much into little things. Dan could very well be joking about most of those thirst/slide into DMs/horny statements. I mean, is it really that unbelievable? In TTLMT, he did that whole ass-eating joke because it was a meme. All the statements we're discussing are things that are in relatable memes seen mostly on tumblr. It seems a bit tinfoil-hatish to analyze everything to the brim. Whatever is Dan's exact relationship with Phil, whatever past sexual experiences he had, it doesn't really affect anything in my opinion. If Dan wants to disclose that to us, he will.

I know this place is for speculating and all that, and this probably just feels weird to me because I'm so new, but I think it's best to allow Dan and Phil to control what information about their personal lives they want to reveal.

[knq]

Well that's all of my lines crossed.

[SilentSilent]

Does anybody else still find it confusing that they split their stores... just from a business and convenience of audience perspective, it seems like having them together would sell more as people might be inclined to chuck in stuff from both of them if it meant one shipping? I don’t know, it’s just kind of weird to me that they’d sacrifice convenience for their audience just to be separate? I guess they’ve got money to lose or maybe in the end they’ll make more money and I have no idea. Makes me think they’ll be pretty professionally seperate going forward which RIP gaming channel, you were the best.

[anna_begins]

Makes me think they’ll be pretty professionally seperate going forward which RIP gaming channel, you were the best.

Dan opened his shop in March of 2018, before the tour even started, so I don't think it's an indicator of anything more than them also wanting to have individual identities outside of the "dan and phil" branding. Plus, in Dan''s video he said "Phil and I love working together", present tense and they're doing a joint meet and greet at vidcon, so I don't think we have to worry that joint content is only a thing of the past.

[alittledizzy]

I'm gonna deviate from the topic a little and just share this fanvid that I've been watching on loop while just being all in my feelings about Dan of that era and how much he'd been through and the kind of life he got to suddenly start leading with Phil by his side loving him.

[socksparadox]

Kinda late to the topic, but I honestly don't give a hot fuck about the details of either of their sex lives and I think Dan made it clear that we really shouldn't. What matters is that they're soulmates, and they're happy. Sex shouldn't be the only thing that defines a relationship. The emotional bond in a relationship (especially one like dnp's) is what matters the most in my opinion - and it's clear that they're still going strong on that front.

[AltMay]

I'm gonna deviate from the topic a little and just share this fanvid that I've been watching on loop while just being all in my feelings about Dan of that era and how much he'd been through and the kind of life he got to suddenly start leading with Phil by his side loving him.

Oh man... it's too much. It's up there with the ♥ video ;-; Thanks for sharing.

[Phantasy]

Food. Sex. Laughter. That is Dan’s stated key elements to his happiness. The only plausible sexual partner of Dan up to that point was Phil, and certainly that’s been the status quo in the year since.

Scenario 1) if they were once romantic, but have since chosen to live as platonic soulmates, I don’t see how anyone else comes into that relationship—and since the chances of them both being poly seem slim, that just seems like a recipe for jealously and complicated (perhaps unrequited) feelings.

Scenario 2) they are as they were 10 years ago and are still romantic and soulmates (and presumably monogamous), I think it’s perfectly plausible that a couple firmly in love and rock steady in their relationship might entertain bringing in someone purely for sex to spice things up.

Scenario 3) they are happily in a long term monogamous relationship and have no plans to change that or introduce any 3rd party elements.

Dan’s “horny” and “wanting all the attention” comments didn’t throw me for a loop, but the “cute mutuals slide into DMs” did give me pause.. I’ve since written off them all as his brand of humor, but as someone else commented we are so conditioned to be distrusting or look for those carefully planted misdirects that is hard not to get caught up thinking in circles sometimes.

It's hard to break the habit of over analyzing (I realize the above doesn’t help) and honestly his video delivered everything and more, he said he would go into deeper detail on a lot of the subjects he raised, and I’m happy to take him at his word.

[Ablissa]

I know the discussion is moving on, as it should be, but I just want to reiterate that before anyone jumps to any conclusions, they should take in more than just the most recent video. Context matters greatly.
I'm putting this under a spoiler so feel free to skip it, this is going to be talking about the whole not together and open relationship discourse.

I will preface this by saying everything is 100% my opinion, I have nothing against anyone that thinks something else than I do, and if I'm being concise (lmao I'm not, this is long, but like, blunt maybe?), it's just to save time/it's 5 am so I need to sleep.

Open or polyamorous relationship
I'm gonna bring in some points that I feel serve as context for this theory.

1. We know Dan likes to make jokes about sex. We also know that he covers up genuine feelings with humor.

2. They were closeted celebrities for many years who kept their relationship even from (at least Dan's) family. We can safely assume that their trust levels towards other people were very low.
a) Random hookups or open relationship - I can't see that working out unless everyone has to sign an NDA lol.
b) A proper polyamorous relationship - as someone said, this would be so hard to keep hush that I'm not sure how it could work. Even with all parties being super dedicated, things would slip past the cracks and this fandom picks up on every small thing.

3. People in committed relationships can act "thirsty" about people outside the relationship. It's okay to find other people attractive and say it out loud.

4. At least Dan is possessive and jealous, so I can't see how that would work. This is something he freely admits to himself.

5. Arguably they both place a lot of emphasis on each other, so this would be super hard to handle for the other party if they were poly.

6. I feel like Dan would not freely disclose being polyamorous for fear of people hunting down the other party. This is just my impression.

7. Dan's thirsty/horny jokes could very well just mean Phil... I'm not sure why that is not the first thought in most people's minds. Also, since he mentioned poly in the context of sexuality, I assumed he meant polysexual at first.

8. And then we have all the usual things we have discussed a bazillion times over, aka the context of their whole relationship. How they're literally joined at the hip, how Dan speaks of Phil in the video, their plans for the future, etc. Their lives are so intertwined in just each other that it would be super difficult to allow someone else in.

Not together anymore
This one is going to be shorter because I find that even less likely than the first.
Again, context. Listen to Dan's words - if he wanted to put an end to the shipping there, he would have done so. All he did was to talk about how much Phil means to him and how they're soulmates. I don't know many people who would call their ex their soulmate.

But their whole relationship prior to the video is important here too. Look at the big picture - their future plans, their past, the things they said and did. Those things already heavily hinted at a romantic relationship before, and now that it's confirmed, it's suddenly not true?

Conclusion
I'm not saying it's impossible for them to be in an open relationship (I am saying it seems quite impossible for them to be broken up). I'm saying however that it seems out of character based on what I've observed over the 7 years I've spent in this fandom.

Also, like alittledizzy said somewhere above, as a queer person myself I want to believe that queer people don't need to have a court order stating they're monogamous for others to believe it. And as I've always considered depz the definition of monogamy, I don't intend to change that opinion based on a few jokes from Dan (that were made during an extremely emotional, beautiful video.)

I don't want to make it sound like open relationships or polyamory are bad, I feel like I need to reiterate that. I'm just not seeing this on d&p, but of course, none of us can know anything for sure.

All my rambling aside, I do believe this fandom has been conditioned to automatically disbelieve everything they see. However, for me, when the confirmation comes from Dan himself - well... I already had no doubt before, so I'm not going to start doubting now.

[obsessivelymoody]

I know the discussion is moving on, as it should be, but I just want to reiterate that before anyone jumps to any conclusions, they should take in more than just the most recent video. Context matters greatly.
I'm putting this under a spoiler so feel free to skip it, this is going to be talking about the whole not together and open relationship discourse.

I will preface this by saying everything is 100% my opinion, I have nothing against anyone that thinks something else than I do, and if I'm being concise (lmao I'm not, this is long, but like, blunt maybe?), it's just to save time/it's 5 am so I need to sleep.

Open or polyamorous relationship
I'm gonna bring in some points that I feel serve as context for this theory.

1. We know Dan likes to make jokes about sex. We also know that he covers up genuine feelings with humor.

2. They were closeted celebrities for many years who kept their relationship even from (at least Dan's) family. We can safely assume that their trust levels towards other people were very low.
a) Random hookups or open relationship - I can't see that working out unless everyone has to sign an NDA lol.
b) A proper polyamorous relationship - as someone said, this would be so hard to keep hush that I'm not sure how it could work. Even with all parties being super dedicated, things would slip past the cracks and this fandom picks up on every small thing.

3. People in committed relationships can act "thirsty" about people outside the relationship. It's okay to find other people attractive and say it out loud.

4. At least Dan is possessive and jealous, so I can't see how that would work. This is something he freely admits to himself.

5. Arguably they both place a lot of emphasis on each other, so this would be super hard to handle for the other party if they were poly.

6. I feel like Dan would not freely disclose being polyamorous for fear of people hunting down the other party. This is just my impression.

7. Dan's thirsty/horny jokes could very well just mean Phil... I'm not sure why that is not the first thought in most people's minds. Also, since he mentioned poly in the context of sexuality, I assumed he meant polysexual at first.

8. And then we have all the usual things we have discussed a bazillion times over, aka the context of their whole relationship. How they're literally joined at the hip, how Dan speaks of Phil in the video, their plans for the future, etc. Their lives are so intertwined in just each other that it would be super difficult to allow someone else in.

Not together anymore
This one is going to be shorter because I find that even less likely than the first.
Again, context. Listen to Dan's words - if he wanted to put an end to the shipping there, he would have done so. All he did was to talk about how much Phil means to him and how they're soulmates. I don't know many people who would call their ex their soulmate.

But their whole relationship prior to the video is important here too. Look at the big picture - their future plans, their past, the things they said and did. Those things already heavily hinted at a romantic relationship before, and now that it's confirmed, it's suddenly not true?

Conclusion
I'm not saying it's impossible for them to be in an open relationship (I am saying it seems quite impossible for them to be broken up). I'm saying however that it seems out of character based on what I've observed over the 7 years I've spent in this fandom.

Also, like alittledizzy said somewhere above, as a queer person myself I want to believe that queer people don't need to have a court order stating they're monogamous for others to believe it. And as I've always considered depz the definition of monogamy, I don't intend to change that opinion based on a few jokes from Dan (that were made during an extremely emotional, beautiful video.)

I don't want to make it sound like open relationships or polyamory are bad, I feel like I need to reiterate that. I'm just not seeing this on d&p, but of course, none of us can know anything for sure.

All my rambling aside, I do believe this fandom has been conditioned to automatically disbelieve everything they see. However, for me, when the confirmation comes from Dan himself - well... I already had no doubt before, so I'm not going to start doubting now.

+1 to all of this. I'm not against the idea of them being poly in any way, but spelled out like this it just seems unlikely to me. I'm always welcome to be proved wrong though!

Anyway, as every day passes I get more and more anxious for vidcon to happen. I'm just so curious to see!! I don't expect them to act in any way different to the way they have in the past, but so much has happened since their last convention I'm very much on the edge of my seat about it.

[taco baco]

I know the discussion is moving on, as it should be, but I just want to reiterate that before anyone jumps to any conclusions, they should take in more than just the most recent video. Context matters greatly.
I'm putting this under a spoiler so feel free to skip it, this is going to be talking about the whole not together and open relationship discourse.

I will preface this by saying everything is 100% my opinion, I have nothing against anyone that thinks something else than I do, and if I'm being concise (lmao I'm not, this is long, but like, blunt maybe?), it's just to save time/it's 5 am so I need to sleep.

Open or polyamorous relationship
I'm gonna bring in some points that I feel serve as context for this theory.

1. We know Dan likes to make jokes about sex. We also know that he covers up genuine feelings with humor.

2. They were closeted celebrities for many years who kept their relationship even from (at least Dan's) family. We can safely assume that their trust levels towards other people were very low.
a) Random hookups or open relationship - I can't see that working out unless everyone has to sign an NDA lol.
b) A proper polyamorous relationship - as someone said, this would be so hard to keep hush that I'm not sure how it could work. Even with all parties being super dedicated, things would slip past the cracks and this fandom picks up on every small thing.

3. People in committed relationships can act "thirsty" about people outside the relationship. It's okay to find other people attractive and say it out loud.

4. At least Dan is possessive and jealous, so I can't see how that would work. This is something he freely admits to himself.

5. Arguably they both place a lot of emphasis on each other, so this would be super hard to handle for the other party if they were poly.

6. I feel like Dan would not freely disclose being polyamorous for fear of people hunting down the other party. This is just my impression.

7. Dan's thirsty/horny jokes could very well just mean Phil... I'm not sure why that is not the first thought in most people's minds. Also, since he mentioned poly in the context of sexuality, I assumed he meant polysexual at first.

8. And then we have all the usual things we have discussed a bazillion times over, aka the context of their whole relationship. How they're literally joined at the hip, how Dan speaks of Phil in the video, their plans for the future, etc. Their lives are so intertwined in just each other that it would be super difficult to allow someone else in.

Not together anymore
This one is going to be shorter because I find that even less likely than the first.
Again, context. Listen to Dan's words - if he wanted to put an end to the shipping there, he would have done so. All he did was to talk about how much Phil means to him and how they're soulmates. I don't know many people who would call their ex their soulmate.

But their whole relationship prior to the video is important here too. Look at the big picture - their future plans, their past, the things they said and did. Those things already heavily hinted at a romantic relationship before, and now that it's confirmed, it's suddenly not true?

Conclusion
I'm not saying it's impossible for them to be in an open relationship (I am saying it seems quite impossible for them to be broken up). I'm saying however that it seems out of character based on what I've observed over the 7 years I've spent in this fandom.

Also, like alittledizzy said somewhere above, as a queer person myself I want to believe that queer people don't need to have a court order stating they're monogamous for others to believe it. And as I've always considered depz the definition of monogamy, I don't intend to change that opinion based on a few jokes from Dan (that were made during an extremely emotional, beautiful video.)

I don't want to make it sound like open relationships or polyamory are bad, I feel like I need to reiterate that. I'm just not seeing this on d&p, but of course, none of us can know anything for sure.

All my rambling aside, I do believe this fandom has been conditioned to automatically disbelieve everything they see. However, for me, when the confirmation comes from Dan himself - well... I already had no doubt before, so I'm not going to start doubting now.

I missed this discourse but BIG agree to this! One of the reasons I always suspected they were together was that I could not see them hooking up with other people. If I was a youtuber and in DnP’s situation, I would not seek out outside people to sleep with. Because if I did, it could ruin the whole ‘mystery’ of the relationship just like that.

Off topic, but I always thought that if anything about their relationship was going to be revealed, it was going to be someone else who spilled it. An ex friend or distant relative...I’m kind of pessimistic in the sense that I don’t think every person could keep such a big secret to themselves. But even though it’s not really ‘confirmed’, I’m glad it was discussed in their own terms.

[DeadlyNova]

As someone with really bad jealousy issues, like Dan has admitted to and been shown to have, I couldn't fathom polyamory or being in an open relationship. I see nothing wrong with it for others, but I could never do it. So from my perspective I'm not sure I could ever entertain the idea of them doing it, either.

As for whether or not they're still together, I feel the same way as I would if they were never together....unless they chose to remain perpetually single, with how little they are apart and how in the public eye they are, plus with how little they leave the house and how often they are spotted when they do, I find it hard to believe they would never have been spotted with someone else if they WERE to date anyone else. If it was just casual or just sex, I can't see how nothing would have come up by now. It just seems unrealistic to think there has ever been anyone else.

I also dislike the implication, as others have stated, that it's common place for gay relationships to be open....I know it's also very common amongst straight married couples. They're just usually more secretive about it. But people don't assume every straight married couple are 'swingers'. I feel like acting like it's mostly a gay thing reinforces the stereotypes that gay people are 'just about sex' and can't have a loving, committed long term relationship.

As someone who definitely believes in soulmates and 'the one' I really am putting my heart into them still being together....I want to see a couple I look up to stay together happily for once.

[knq]

Happily on my 1,132nd rewatch of Basically I'm Gay, something I appreciate and I'm not sure has been mentioned (though it could have been, we filled up those Phildom pages real fast after the video dropped)

When Dan talks about discovering for the first time that he is gay, with the boy in his English class (and again when he talks about meeting Phil, and again again when he talks about straight men having deep conversation and leaning in) he talks about romantic attraction and feelings of love and caring and fascination, wanting to know more about the boy and focusing on his long eyelashes--which I expect is a bit cheeky, but it's still entirely valid.

He could have talked about physical or sexual attraction. That's a big part of what puberty is, and Dan was talking about puberty at the time. He talks about being thirsty, horny, and liking dick at other points. But he doesn't leave room for anyone reasonable to assume his feelings aren't for real and whole people.

And that might seem obvious. It should be obvious. But I think it's important because 1. Dan tends to use sexual innuendo to protect himself from the vulnerability of having feelings, and this seems like a plausible but terrible place to use it. And 2. a common theme in in modern homophobia is to entirely reduce gay people's relationships to the sexual. You can even see it in the idea that any appreciation or joy over a gay relationship must be 'fetishization' because, you know, all that's there to appreciate is the sex amiright.

Dan didn't let anyone do that. Some people will of course, but Dan didn't provide any fuel for that. "I know I like dick" was several chapters and tens of minutes away from Dan's gay awakening.

Have I mentioned I'm impressed with Dan's video lately?

[PhancifulPhil]

Could you imagine being in a polyamorous relationship with two people who claim each other as soulmates? Even if you don't really get jealous, wouldn't that be very hard to deal with?

[nøx]

I wanna chat a little bit about something from Dan's video that I haven't really seen anybody else bring up?
I don't want to speculate or make claims about Dan's gender identity but it really meant a lot to me that the topic of gender and pronouns were brought up. I'm a (non-binary) formless blob and at this point, that part is the most important and salient part of my queerness - but it's also something that other queer people can be really weird about. That Dan has some sort of Feelings around gender and blobness isn't a surprise but maybe that's exactly why it was so lovely to me that he talked about it a little bit. I think it must have resonated and been meaningful to other gender-nonconforming cis viewers AND non-binary viewers. In my heart I'm switching up Dan's pronouns a little bit

Poly? Don't see it for the past for logistical reasons but going forward? Maybe? I don't really care. That they're committed to each other, soulmates and companions isn't exactly news, either, imo. All I want is for them to be comfortable and feel safe. I've always assumed that that meant a level of transparency about their relationship that they have now created and I'm happy for them. It seems like it was the right thing for them.
To my knowledge, jealousy is absolutely a part of poly relationships - and is encouraged to be dealt with, head on. Talking and listening to meet needs. As I said, I don't really see it but using Dan being a jealous person as argumentation against it is, uuh. It doesn't fit with anything I've heard from poly people
Dan intending that comment to be a serious invitation? Really? lol.

Lastly, gosh. I was a bit taken aback by the degree of the bullying. From the way he had brought it up before it was obviously BAD, but that he actually feared for his life? (I don't think that's an exaggerated interpretation of the way he talked about it.) YIKES. My heart aches for him. Proud of him.

Ok, I lied, here's my lastly: Dan is genuinely inspiring me to live more authentically. I don't think I'll be coming out as NB to my family or classmates/future coworkers right away but in smaller things. Been feeling kinda weird and estranged from myself for a few months. Seeing Dan being so incredible genuine makes me want to be as in touch with myself again.

Also, can I just say? That look at the very end when he turns off the camera? Love it. Love the "ok I said the things, leave me alone now"

[whostolemyleftshoe]

I usually don't like to get involved in the conversation here and it seems like it's moving on, but the fact this is are-they-aren't-they debate is STILL going on kind of irks me. Is it possible they're not together anymore? Sure. Is it likely? From everything they've shown us over the last 10 years, I don't think so. I just don't think that considering throw away jokes Dan makes about being thirsty or wanting other men to slide into his DMs as proof that they broke up/ are in an open relationship is fair when we have Dan seriously calling them life companions and soulmates and 10 years of history to go off of. Also, most long-term couples who have enough trust in each other to know the other isn't serious make these kinds of jokes. Take for instance Rose and Rosie.
https://youtu.be/74_P_YAyKog

Here is a video where they spend many of the 8 min thirsting over other people and making jokes about being with other people despite being married for 4 years and being in a (as far as we know) monogamous relationship for much longer. These jokes are a lot more explicit than Dan's jokes yet no one would say "Oh. Rose and Rosie are making jokes about sleeping with other people, this must mean they broke up :/"

Also if they had broken up, why wouldn't Dan just say that? Why would he continue to invite speculation instead of just shutting phan down once and for all? I can see them maybe being in an open relationship, but the break-up theories just don't make sense to me. Although I could be wrong. Who knows. I guess only time will tell.

[glitterintheair]

Thank so much @whostolemyleftshoe for bringing up Rose&Rosie because I follow them too and I swear I often find myself wondering how the Phandom would react if dnp were to say some of the things r&r say on a regular basis. Those girls are in a monogamous relationship, and yet they make thirsty jokes all the time. For god's sake, one of their most recent videos is just Rosie sending DMs to random verified people on twitter, they also made a video about zodiac signs where in more than one occasion they were like "i would never be with a[x sign]" or "this sign is the sexiest" etc. If dnp did that I can guarantee 100% that people would take those comments as dnp not being together or whatever. God, I am so tired.

[Birdie]

I don't know if it's just because I'm very new to this forum, but I feel like all this speculation is a bit much. I mean, sure, speculating is the point of this forum, but it seems like we're reading too much into little things. Dan could very well be joking about most of those thirst/slide into DMs/horny statements. I mean, is it really that unbelievable? In TTLMT, he did that whole ass-eating joke because it was a meme. All the statements we're discussing are things that are in relatable memes seen mostly on tumblr. It seems a bit tinfoil-hatish to analyze everything to the brim. Whatever is Dan's exact relationship with Phil, whatever past sexual experiences he had, it doesn't really affect anything in my opinion. If Dan wants to disclose that to us, he will.

I know this place is for speculating and all that, and this probably just feels weird to me because I'm so new, but I think it's best to allow Dan and Phil to control what information about their personal lives they want to reveal.

I agree, thank you so much. There's speculation and then there's trying to shine light on the exact nature of someone's relationship not even a week after he said he wants his relationship to be private. These are just my boundaries and we've established that everyone draws their own lines but consider mine also crossed.

I wasn't this concerned when I honestly thought it wasn't real but it's real now and I... I just don't think we should be doing this in this capacity.

Well to celebrate I have a google drive link to a bunch of formspring asks, i screenshotted them all in late 2011 before they got taken down. Or maybe it was someone I know and not me. The screenshotter is anonymous. Anyway some of these I'm told were never released before? So. I feel like it's okay now. DM me for the link.

No, it's literally not.

[Ataraxia25]

I wasn't this concerned when I honestly thought it wasn't real but it's real now and I... I just don't think we should be doing this in this capacity.

Well to celebrate I have a google drive link to a bunch of formspring asks, i screenshotted them all in late 2011 before they got taken down. Or maybe it was someone I know and not me. The screenshotter is anonymous. Anyway some of these I'm told were never released before? So. I feel like it's okay now. DM me for the link.

No, it's literally not.

Wow, I hadn't seen this yesterday but yeah, no, I don't think it's "okay now", no. We have the formsprings that we have, why would we want formsprings that have not been released before? I just don't like this concept that "it's okay now".

[kavat]

I dont want to get into this discussion at all, I just feel like it's not difficult to know when Dan is serious and when he isn't.

About the road trip, of course Dan is driving, don't you remember that he's a car influencer who does panels for Jaguar? It's a spon trip of course, which is why Phil is so excited about it.

[black_rat]

I just wanted to come here and express how fond and proud and thankful i am for Dan

In the past I kind of thought that Dan was bisexual (sorry Dan for assuming...).

Eventhough he is not bi, he felt like someone I could look up to in this regard, because he is just generally a lovely person and the way he went about expressing attraction towards more genders in the past and making the bi community feel valid (not that that's his job, but it's nice) was just something I really appreciated.

Now, I am even more proud of him, that he felt ready to share his truth with us, and even trying to reconcile with a label that has been used so much in the past to hurt him. (And even to this day, man if you look at some of the comments..)

Also, of course I am also really proud of Phil!

Anyway, I am looking forward for hopefully joint content sometime soon. I love that they started using twitter more. A liveshow would be neat too. But also I am really looking forward to Vidcon, not because I am going, but just because it really makes me happy to see other people happy