Dan & Phil Part 86: here, queer & full of existential fear

[obvsly]

I'd give anything for a joint pride selfie.

I’ll second this.

And can somebody please tell them they don’t have to alternate their social media days? I miss Phil’s face and his silly tweets/stories

[Omgsonew]

Not 2 sound like a butthurt but I'm kinda frustrated by everyone acting like he's 100% gay and only into dudes now?

I know he used the word gay himself, so yeah. But, in the video we all watched, he literally says he was "genuinely attracted to" his girlfriend, that he is not "fully gay", and that he doesn't care what's between someone's legs. It seemed to me that the stress of assessing and committing to a specific bi/pan/poly identity played an element in him ducking out of identifying as such, but - noah fence to Dan's ultimate choice of identity and disdain for labels which I will still honour no matter what - under solely technical definitions, going by the things he said in the video, he may fall under one.

When he owned, "I am gay", he prefaced it by saying fuck all the technical and scientific definitions, because the context was purely him facing his fear of the word. And when he came out as basically gay to his family, I think that was a matter of him simplifying bc he's not about to explain the intricacies of being open to different genitalia while still preferring penis to his grandma and co.

Anyway maybe I do sound like a butthurt. I'm just a bit hmmm @ everyone forgetting him denying being fully gay bc bisexuality erasure, I guess. The world is so weird when it comes to straight/bi/gay, like bisexuality has to be a 50/50 thing and anything other must be 100% either gay or straight. There's no understanding for fluidity

[Ablissa]

Not 2 sound like a butthurt but I'm kinda frustrated by everyone acting like he's 100% gay and only into dudes now?

I know he used the word gay himself, so yeah. But, in the video we all watched, he literally says he was "genuinely attracted to" his girlfriend, that he is not "fully gay", and that he doesn't care what's between someone's legs. It seemed to me that the stress of assessing and committing to a specific bi/pan/poly identity played an element in him ducking out of identifying as such, but - noah fence to Dan's ultimate choice of identity and disdain for labels which I will still honour no matter what - under solely technical definitions, going by the things he said in the video, he may fall under one.

When he owned, "I am gay", he prefaced it by saying fuck all the technical and scientific definitions, because the context was purely him facing his fear of the word. And when he came out as basically gay to his family, I think that was a matter of him simplifying bc he's not about to explain the intricacies of being open to different genitalia while still preferring penis to his grandma and co.

Anyway maybe I do sound like a butthurt. I'm just a bit hmmm @ everyone forgetting him denying being fully gay bc bisexuality erasure, I guess. The world is so weird when it comes to straight/bi/gay, like bisexuality has to be a 50/50 thing and anything other must be 100% either gay or straight. There's no understanding for fluidity

We're simply following his own words. He said he identified as gay and queer, but ultimately refers to himself as gay. What he truly means by that, only he knows.

Sexuality is fluid and may change over time. I don't think anyone here is claiming that Dan was only ever into men, but if the label he's using is gay, then that's what we're going to use too.

[madzilla84]

I'd give anything for a joint pride selfie.

I’ll second this.

And can somebody please tell them they don’t have to alternate their social media days? I miss Phil’s face and his silly tweets/stories

Yes this. I miss him too. I appreciate Phil maybe wouldn’t want to post a video for a bit after Dan’s, but he’s otherwise been the quietest he’s been all year; right when Dan’s back, too. I’m not sure why they seem to tag team being around these days.

[Omgsonew]

Not 2 sound like a butthurt but I'm kinda frustrated by everyone acting like he's 100% gay and only into dudes now?

I know he used the word gay himself, so yeah. But, in the video we all watched, he literally says he was "genuinely attracted to" his girlfriend, that he is not "fully gay", and that he doesn't care what's between someone's legs. It seemed to me that the stress of assessing and committing to a specific bi/pan/poly identity played an element in him ducking out of identifying as such, but - noah fence to Dan's ultimate choice of identity and disdain for labels which I will still honour no matter what - under solely technical definitions, going by the things he said in the video, he may fall under one.

When he owned, "I am gay", he prefaced it by saying fuck all the technical and scientific definitions, because the context was purely him facing his fear of the word. And when he came out as basically gay to his family, I think that was a matter of him simplifying bc he's not about to explain the intricacies of being open to different genitalia while still preferring penis to his grandma and co.

Anyway maybe I do sound like a butthurt. I'm just a bit hmmm @ everyone forgetting him denying being fully gay bc bisexuality erasure, I guess. The world is so weird when it comes to straight/bi/gay, like bisexuality has to be a 50/50 thing and anything other must be 100% either gay or straight. There's no understanding for fluidity

We're simply following his own words. He said he identified as gay and queer, but ultimately refers to himself as gay. What he truly means by that, only he knows.

Sexuality is fluid and may change over time. I don't think anyone here is claiming that Dan was only ever into men, but if the label he's using is gay, then that's what we're going to use too.

I wasn't coming after anyone here. I've seen people elsewhere claim his exclusive attraction to men and that's what I was side eyeing, but I guess I didn't make that clear, my bad.

[000dia000]

Okay, I think people are too hung up over the "gay" thing. I think Dan insinuated in the video that he is probably more attracted to men in his video, but did not confirm it. Essentially, he just said that genitlia doesn't matter, and chooses to identify as "gay" for personal reasons. From real life, I have an aunt that identifies as "gay", who exclusively dates women but doesn't call herself a lesbian because she's been attracted to men in the past and is probably not a 100 percent against dating a man again. Yet, she doesn't call herself bi. She's gay. She dates women. She's happy like that. She doesn't really need to prove herself and neither does Dan in this instance with how "gay" or "straight" he is. He is what he is.

Hypothetically, if he's been truly in a monagamously relationship with Phil since the age of 18, I can understand why it may be a little difficult for him to fully determine the spectrum of his sexuality.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the video he also said that he liked his girlfriend and was attracted to her. He was just going struggling with his sexuality at the time and was afraid he would gay panic if they ever got intimate. He may not necessary hold the same feelings for a lady now as he did then, but I wouldn't negate his experience, especially as it came from his own mouth.

One thing made me almost dislike the video though, but I didn't because I think it would be unfair, as I'm sure no one has taught Dan what is radical feminism, so when he says "fucking TERFs" it made me really angry, as he probably knows next to nothing about what is radfem and is talking shit for his million of subscribers. I also know a majority of his fans are probably closer to being liberal feminists, so almost no one will call him out on that. Can we stop hating women know? Can we educate ourselves before shit talking? Thanks.

Okay. This is really off topic, but this entire comment was just really glaring, and I'm curious. I'm going to hold off on being presumptuous.

I just notice that there's a lot of discussion around the use of TERF as a "slur". Does it not stand for "Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists"? Maybe you're comment is directed at how the term is used to silence feminist voices by intentionally mislabelling them. Otherwise, why is Dan's use of the word offensive or problematic for you?

[alittledizzy]

Not 2 sound like a butthurt but I'm kinda frustrated by everyone acting like he's 100% gay and only into dudes now?

I know he used the word gay himself, so yeah. But, in the video we all watched, he literally says he was "genuinely attracted to" his girlfriend, that he is not "fully gay", and that he doesn't care what's between someone's legs. It seemed to me that the stress of assessing and committing to a specific bi/pan/poly identity played an element in him ducking out of identifying as such, but - noah fence to Dan's ultimate choice of identity and disdain for labels which I will still honour no matter what - under solely technical definitions, going by the things he said in the video, he may fall under one.

When he owned, "I am gay", he prefaced it by saying fuck all the technical and scientific definitions, because the context was purely him facing his fear of the word. And when he came out as basically gay to his family, I think that was a matter of him simplifying bc he's not about to explain the intricacies of being open to different genitalia while still preferring penis to his grandma and co.

Anyway maybe I do sound like a butthurt. I'm just a bit hmmm @ everyone forgetting him denying being fully gay bc bisexuality erasure, I guess. The world is so weird when it comes to straight/bi/gay, like bisexuality has to be a 50/50 thing and anything other must be 100% either gay or straight. There's no understanding for fluidity

This world is weird when it comes to straight/bi/gay. Part of that is it being weird when it comes to letting you say you're gay or a lesbian, too. This shit is complex and sometimes fear that you're not 'gay enough' to say you're gay can be the root of that commitment issue with the label. I'm someone who is gradually coming around to accepting that I'm a lesbian but even typing it right here in this very relevant context makes my heart race a little and I feel like I'm doing something I shouldn't. Why? Because I was confused enough to think I was bisexual for a long time before I underwent enough personal growth to understand the difference in my various capacities for feelings for people and what that meant for who I am ultimately best suited to be with. Not that I am saying that his experience matches mine, just that when I watched Dan's video, I really just felt - as cheesy as it sounds - seen and understood that someone who felt like things weren't always clear to them was brave enough to still just embrace what felt right even though he had to know one of the responses would be from people saying he didn't fit the criteria enough and so clearly was this other thing instead.

But, yeah. All of that personal perspective aside, we have what Dan said in the video to go on and above everything else: he says he's gay. Not only did he say it, but he's owning it, and that just fills me with pride for him.

[nøx]

Does anybody happen to have a gif of Dan saying “I’m easy” from BIG?

[Kurapika]

Throughout the video Dan made it pretty clear the people he feels the most romantically and sexually attracted to are men, but sexuality is fluid, so I'm sure he has felt attraction to women before. And he genuinely liked his ex, so the attraction is justified.

One thing made me almost dislike the video though, but I didn't because I think it would be unfair, as I'm sure no one has taught Dan what is radical feminism, so when he says "fucking TERFs" it made me really angry, as he probably knows next to nothing about what is radfem and is talking shit for his million of subscribers. I also know a majority of his fans are probably closer to being liberal feminists, so almost no one will call him out on that. Can we stop hating women know? Can we educate ourselves before shit talking? Thanks.

Okay. This is really off topic, but this entire comment was just really glaring, and I'm curious. I'm going to hold off on being presumptuous.

I just notice that there's a lot of discussion around the use of TERF as a "slur". Does it not stand for "Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists"? Maybe you're comment is directed at how the term is used to silence feminist voices by intentionally mislabelling them. Otherwise, why is Dan's use of the word offensive or problematic for you?

It does stand for "Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists", but the thing is: radical feminists aren't trans-exclusionary. We simply believe in the abolition of gender, because gender oppresses women. So yeah, it is used to silence feminist voices, because people don't wanna hear about how women suffer because they're born with vaginas and not because they "identify" as women. There are tons of material about radical feminism online if you wanna learn more

[obvsly]

Anyway maybe I do sound like a butthurt. I'm just a bit hmmm @ everyone forgetting him denying being fully gay bc bisexuality erasure, I guess. The world is so weird when it comes to straight/bi/gay, like bisexuality has to be a 50/50 thing and anything other must be 100% either gay or straight. There's no understanding for fluidity

It’s 4.30 am my time so forgive me if I’m not making much sense but I’m just gonna throw my 2 cents in.

I don’t think what we see here is bi erasure at all. Bi erasure is a thing, of course, and boy do I know it. Nobody takes me seriously when I say I’m bi, just because I’m married to a man and have a kid. They won’t even count my ex-girlfriends as real relationships as (they’d say) I was “just experimenting”, which is a load of crap. So yeah I firmly loathe bi erasure.

But in dan’s case, I think this is a person finally coming to terms with what he truly is. And what he truly is right now is gay. It might be a matter of language, of terms he’s most comfortable with at the moment. But it’s what sits right with him. He’s not trying to deny - or erase, if you will - his past. I don’t think anyone does either. He’s happy with the term, and we are happy for him. It’s a respectful thing to use the current term/pronouns the person prefers, that’s all.

[bevioletsky]

One thing made me almost dislike the video though, but I didn't because I think it would be unfair, as I'm sure no one has taught Dan what is radical feminism, so when he says "fucking TERFs" it made me really angry, as he probably knows next to nothing about what is radfem and is talking shit for his million of subscribers. I also know a majority of his fans are probably closer to being liberal feminists, so almost no one will call him out on that. Can we stop hating women know? Can we educate ourselves before shit talking? Thanks.

Okay. This is really off topic, but this entire comment was just really glaring, and I'm curious. I'm going to hold off on being presumptuous.

I just notice that there's a lot of discussion around the use of TERF as a "slur". Does it not stand for "Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists"? Maybe you're comment is directed at how the term is used to silence feminist voices by intentionally mislabelling them. Otherwise, why is Dan's use of the word offensive or problematic for you?

It does stand for "Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists", but the thing is: radical feminists aren't trans-exclusionary. We simply believe in the abolition of gender, because gender oppresses women. So yeah, it is used to silence feminist voices, because people don't wanna hear about how women suffer because they're born with vaginas and not because they "identify" as women. There are tons of material about radical feminism online if you wanna learn more

Yeah oof not to get into an argument about radfeminism but TERFs definitely exist and are trans-exclusionary, and considering how hard Dan stans Natalie Wynn aka Contrapoints, as well as based on some of his Twitter likes from this year I would say he seems at least reasonably well-informed on the subject.

Everyone should watch this video if you haven't. Not even gonna spoiler it, sorry.

[Omgsonew]

Thanks to the people taking time to explain the "gay" thing to me, you guys are really nice

[phoenixfeather]

i’m on mobile and way too lazy to quote omgsonew but i definitely feel the same way! more than just using “gay” as a label, i’ve seen a lot of people talking about exclusively male attraction for him because the term “gay” is what he’s using publicly right now. i think it was pretty evident that he’s using it as a way to face his fears and reclaim the term for himself, and prefers to use queer long term.

Hypothetically, if he's been truly in a monagamously relationship with Phil since the age of 18, I can understand why it may be a little difficult for him to fully determine the spectrum of his sexuality.

i think dan was trying to insinuate something similar when he said that he’s not fully gay, but probably a “bit more gay” and “it’s easier for gays to hook up with each other due to societal norms” (i’m not sure if that’s the exact quote because again, mobile and lazy). plus, of course, chances are his primary sexual partner for over a decade has been a male.

ultimately, i thought it was pretty clear that he prefers the term queer, so that’s what i’d prefer to use for him, personally. of course using the word “gay” for him isn’t at all wrong since he’s using that on social media atm, and it’s amazing because it’s such a power move for him to identify with the label that has caused him so much pain for so long. but whoever is claiming that he only used the term “queer” due to the fact he hasn’t fully come to terms with his sexuality yet is just straight up going against everything he says in the “labels” chapter of his video. he makes a point to clarify that he finds his sexual and romantic attraction to be at least somewhat fluid, and despite the literal definition of the word “gay”, he’s going to use it anyway for personal reasons. to which i say, more power to him, and it’s not fair to discount such a big thing for him so we can fit him into the box we’d like him to fit into (again, his words he’s used on more than one occasion, although paraphrased).

using the labels he has chosen is one thing. assuming his intentions are not what he claims them to be is another.


(also would like to note that more than one time while i was typing this, i accidentally switched to the emoji keyboard and of all the things to accidentally hit, it was the m/m kiss emoji. more than once. amazing.)

anyway. #1 thing i want post coming out universe is that video phil mentioned he’d casually drop his sexuality into. i hope he still plans to do so.

[alittledizzy]

i’m on mobile and way too lazy to quote omgsonew but i definitely feel the same way! more than just using “gay” as a label, i’ve seen a lot of people talking about exclusively male attraction for him because the term “gay” is what he’s using publicly right now. i think it was pretty evident that he’s using it as a way to face his fears and reclaim the term for himself, and prefers to use queer long term.

Hypothetically, if he's been truly in a monagamously relationship with Phil since the age of 18, I can understand why it may be a little difficult for him to fully determine the spectrum of his sexuality.

i think dan was trying to insinuate something similar when he said that he’s not fully gay, but probably a “bit more gay” and “it’s easier for gays to hook up with each other due to societal norms” (i’m not sure if that’s the exact quote because again, mobile and lazy). plus, of course, chances are his primary sexual partner for over a decade has been a male.

ultimately, i thought it was pretty clear that he prefers the term queer, so that’s what i’d prefer to use for him, personally. of course using the word “gay” for him isn’t at all wrong since he’s using that on social media atm, and it’s amazing because it’s such a power move for him to identify with the label that has caused him so much pain for so long. but whoever is claiming that he only used the term “queer” due to the fact he hasn’t fully come to terms with his sexuality yet is just straight up going against everything he says in the “labels” chapter of his video. he makes a point to clarify that he finds his sexual and romantic attraction to be at least somewhat fluid, and despite the literal definition of the word “gay”, he’s going to use it anyway for personal reasons. to which i say, more power to him, and it’s not fair to discount such a big thing for him so we can fit him into the box we’d like him to fit into (again, his words he’s used on more than one occasion, although paraphrased).

using the labels he has chosen is one thing. assuming his intentions are not what he claims them to be is another.


(also would like to note that more than one time while i was typing this, i accidentally switched to the emoji keyboard and of all the things to accidentally hit, it was the m/m kiss emoji. more than once. amazing.)

anyway. #1 thing i want post coming out universe is that video phil mentioned he’d casually drop his sexuality into. i hope he still plans to do so.

The video played out like a journey to me; he shared how he identified at various points in his life, because of various contributing factors, various fears of judgement and internalized oppression, and at the end of the video faced his truth that gay is what he is despite being so afraid of it for so many years. Hence coming out to his family as gay, titling the video as gay, using social media to reference himself as a gay man, liking things on social media specifically directed at gay men, used 'homosexual' in his instagram story. To me that indicates that gay is what he prefers, not queer.

[Omgsonew]

The video played out like a journey to me; he shared how he identified at various points in his life, because of various contributing factors, various fears of judgement and internalized oppression, and at the end of the video faced his truth that gay is what he is despite being so afraid of it for so many years. Hence coming out to his family as gay, titling the video as gay, using social media to reference himself as a gay man, liking things on social media specifically directed at gay men, used 'homosexual' in his instagram story. To me that indicates that gay is what he prefers, not queer.

ummmm lol queer is the term he explicitly said he felt comfortable identifying as. It's clear he's totally happy with gay too, but I don't think we can decide which he prefers, especially if it means disregarding his own statements

[alittledizzy]

The video played out like a journey to me; he shared how he identified at various points in his life, because of various contributing factors, various fears of judgement and internalized oppression, and at the end of the video faced his truth that gay is what he is despite being so afraid of it for so many years. Hence coming out to his family as gay, titling the video as gay, using social media to reference himself as a gay man, liking things on social media specifically directed at gay men, used 'homosexual' in his instagram story. To me that indicates that gay is what he prefers, not queer.

ummmm lol queer is the term he explicitly said he felt comfortable identifying as. It's clear he's totally happy with gay too, but I don't think we can decide which he prefers especially if it means disregarding his own statements

I don't disagree that he said queer is an identity that he feels comfortable with. I just think the point of the video was that he was explaining why queer is comfortable and how that was wrapped up with his traumatic history with the word gay (similarly to why he said he identified as bisexual in the past; because it didn't have the negative connotation that gay has) and that the building point of the video was that he's ready to accept and own being gay now.

I'm not trying to diminish the nuance of what he said, I'm leaning into it. Sexuality is complicated and confusing, but facing your fears - about labels or just working past things that you know are weighing you down and keeping you from certain truths - is an important step. I am, as I said before, strongly taking my cues from the way Dan himself is identifying. I do think queer is a fantastic umbrella term and I don't think it's inappropriate to call Dan queer, I'm not saying people shouldn't use that. I just think he's strongly embracing being gay right now, and that's what he's struggled with and what he's proud to be able to freely say now. So watching him use gay repeatedly as a self-identifier makes me far more inclined to follow his own lead. It's part of acknowledging the journey it took for him to get there.

[waveydnp]

dan continues to be confusing. he clearly said he prefers the label queer, and also said ‘fuck the literal and scientific definition’ of gay before he called himself gay. but he’s pretty much referred to himself exclusively as gay since the video came out. so i don’t think it’s ‘bi erasure’ to call him gay by any means, but maybe getting hung up on the minute details of how the term ‘gay’ applies to dan is kind of futile? and also ultimately not important or really even our business?

[socksparadox]

I think spending so much time worrying about the semantics of his labels kinda misses the point he made about it in the video. I interpreted all the stuff he said in the 'labels' chapter of the video as him saying that he's just as confused about his own labels as everyone else. Summing up an entire portion of your identity with one word is difficult, and a lot of times, people never fit perfectly in their box - and that's fine. I think that, even if Dan doesn't fit the exact, textbook definition of the words gay/queer, they're what he's comfortable calling himself.

[Ablissa]

The video played out like a journey to me; he shared how he identified at various points in his life, because of various contributing factors, various fears of judgement and internalized oppression, and at the end of the video faced his truth that gay is what he is despite being so afraid of it for so many years. Hence coming out to his family as gay, titling the video as gay, using social media to reference himself as a gay man, liking things on social media specifically directed at gay men, used 'homosexual' in his instagram story. To me that indicates that gay is what he prefers, not queer.

ummmm lol queer is the term he explicitly said he felt comfortable identifying as. It's clear he's totally happy with gay too, but I don't think we can decide which he prefers, especially if it means disregarding his own statements

I think that Dan likes to have some room for flexibility. As I said earlier, sexuality is fluid and what he may have felt 10 years ago could be irrelevant now. No one's disregarding him using both gay and queer. However, like alittledizzy said, the whole video feels like a lead-up to Dan finally facing his fears - using the label that he was so scared of, that brought him so much pain - and owning it. He calls himself gay and he continues to call himself gay after the video (in like every tweet, I love this man).

If you don't think we can decide what he prefers, then you shouldn't really be insisting that he's leaning towards something else than what he's using, right? I feel like this is ultimately his business, not ours. As long as he refers to himself as gay, we can assume that's the label he identifies with the most. And he does make it sound like there's room for more than just men in there, but it could very well be that right now, in this point of his life, he's more into men than any other gender and that's okay. Gay and queer can both be treated as umbrella terms and that's how I use them myself.

Ultimately, we'll likely never know unless Dan keeps talking about it, but considering that for years now he's only ever shown attraction to men, and he literally does call himself gay, we should allow him to be gay without questioning whether he's really bi/pan/poly.

It's entirely possible that he's attracted to more genders and that's awesome, but that doesn't erase the label he chooses to use.

Edit to add a sidenote - I love discussion but I'm so sick of this subject by now. I don't understand what Dan has to do for people to accept his words. If he says he's gay, he's gay and the details are up to him and not us.

[Ataraxia25]

I genuinely don't understand how people can think it's bi erasure (which is a very real issue) when Dan himself explained his relation to the word bi and to the word gay. Like @alittledizzy said, he explained his journey, why he used the term bi before, even though it didn't really fit. It's gradual.

Also I don't think it's bi /pan erasure because that's not the labels he uses. Dan said he was gay and queer. Okay, he's gay and queer. I don't understand the need to debate the things that Dan clearly stated.

And I don't think the fact that he was genuinely attracted to his ex girlfriend makes him any less gay, but it's a personal point of view.

Also I think for some people, using gay and queer goes together. I'm not speaking for Dan but I'm gay/queer. I'm 100% gay but I cant know for sure that i'll only ever be with women, maybe someday i'll be with someone who's gender non conforming for example. And not to do some projecting but that's how I understood Dan using both gay and queer, because queer doesn't put as much pressure on you (especially knowing Dan says he has "commitment issues")

Sorry for the waffle, it's late.

[queerofcups]

I mean. Dan's gay because he's (v regularly, its so lovely) identifying himself gay. But also Dan not being bi...isn't bi erasure. People have complex approaches and reasoning for the labels that they choose and the fact that his history/past (maybe even current!) feelings don't line up with someone else's opinions of what he "should be" is uhhh not his problem. The expert in how Dan identifies (Dan) is calling Dan gay and it would be a bit odd of us to not follow suit, in the same way it'd be odd to insist that he's not really queer after he told us that he identifies as queer. We should respect the sexual (and gender) identities that people make clear they claim.

[knq]

You guys

Dan is going to his first Pride



(Why yes, I did just see twitter for the first time today.)

[waveydnp]

The video played out like a journey to me; he shared how he identified at various points in his life, because of various contributing factors, various fears of judgement and internalized oppression, and at the end of the video faced his truth that gay is what he is despite being so afraid of it for so many years. Hence coming out to his family as gay, titling the video as gay, using social media to reference himself as a gay man, liking things on social media specifically directed at gay men, used 'homosexual' in his instagram story. To me that indicates that gay is what he prefers, not queer.

ummmm lol queer is the term he explicitly said he felt comfortable identifying as. It's clear he's totally happy with gay too, but I don't think we can decide which he prefers, especially if it means disregarding his own statements

I think that Dan likes to have some room for flexibility. As I said earlier, sexuality is fluid and what he may have felt 10 years ago could be irrelevant now. No one's disregarding him using both gay and queer. However, like alittledizzy said, the whole video feels like a lead-up to Dan finally facing his fears - using the label that he was so scared of, that brought him so much pain - and owning it. He calls himself gay and he continues to call himself gay after the video (in like every tweet, I love this man).

If you don't think we can decide what he prefers, then you shouldn't really be insisting that he's leaning towards something else than what he's using, right? I feel like this is ultimately his business, not ours. As long as he refers to himself as gay, we can assume that's the label he identifies with the most. And he does make it sound like there's room for more than just men in there, but it could very well be that right now, in this point of his life, he's more into men than any other gender and that's okay. Gay and queer can both be treated as umbrella terms and that's how I use them myself.

Ultimately, we'll likely never know unless Dan keeps talking about it, but considering that for years now he's only ever shown attraction to men, and he literally does call himself gay, we should allow him to be gay without questioning whether he's really bi/pan/poly.

It's entirely possible that he's attracted to more genders and that's awesome, but that doesn't erase the label he chooses to use.

Edit to add a sidenote - I love discussion but I'm so sick of this subject by now. I don't understand what Dan has to do for people to accept his words. If he says he's gay, he's gay and the details are up to him and not us.

yes. exactly this. whatever gay means to him isn’t up to us.

[Omgsonew]

Ok I didn't mean to start a war over labels! It was absolutely not my intention to imply that we shouldn't wholly respect Dan's chosen identity and the apparent complexity of his sexuality - that implication was actually what I thought I was fighting against but I seem to have just stirred up shit instead. It's ironic and miserable given how much emphasis Dan put on his discomfort with label culture

[000dia000]

Dan himself in the video acknowledged bi-erasure as a thing and not to invalidate the bisexual label. However, from that he did strongly indicate that the bi label didn't suit him. I don't think he really needs to give a more detailed response tbh. Also, some people do indeed use the bi-label as a stepping stone to finding their sexuality. It doesn't invalidate their own sexuality or the sexuality of actual bi people.

It does stand for "Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists", but the thing is: radical feminists aren't trans-exclusionary. We simply believe in the abolition of gender, because gender oppresses women. So yeah, it is used to silence feminist voices, because people don't wanna hear about how women suffer because they're born with vaginas and not because they "identify" as women. There are tons of material about radical feminism online if you wanna learn more

Thanks for giving your perspective on it. I've read more in the meantime.

Yeah oof not to get into an argument about radfeminism but TERFs definitely exist and are trans-exclusionary, and considering how hard Dan stans Natalie Wynn aka Contrapoints, as well as based on some of his Twitter likes from this year I would say he seems at least reasonably well-informed on the subject.

Everyone should watch this video if you haven't. Not even gonna spoiler it, sorry.

I've been slowly going through ContraPoints videos, definitely worth a watch!

Yeah, as objectively and as passively as possible on the subject to avoid the argument...TERFs as they are defined are real. So, like, fuck 'em. Anyways, I think Dan wouldn't just use the term as a buzzword with no meaning, I think he's very clearly directing it towards a very distinct group of individuals. In the past, when's he's used terms without a full understanding of its meaning, people have been quick to call him out on his mistake. (I remember in a liveshow before he was talking about non-binary people and pronouns. His passing remark along the lines of something like "Whether you identify as something like....a banana!" (Super paraphrased, I need to find the clip) didn't go down well). I kind of trust that Dan does the research before making broad sweeping statements in general, though. Or, at least have some working knowledge. I think when he has an influential audience watching his videos and live shows he's made an effort to actually be as informative as possible.

Side note, before his video he's always been a little restrained in how he spoke (as a gay...supporter). So I wonder how freely he'll speak now that he's more confident in himself?