Dan & Phil Part 86: here, queer & full of existential fear

[Phantasy]

im very confused

Hmmm... capital “H”?
I don’t know her.

[obsessivelymoody]

My mind tells me hacker, and my demon mind tells me Phil is the hacker. Either way, pretty sure the account has been hacked and I'm wondering if this is the next ~gate to hit us.

[plinthofmylife]

I like the idea that some random hacker that was going for bot accounts stumbled on this abandoned looking account and now is like "umm why are thousands of people responding to a "Hey" from this account like it's a conspiracy"

[anathema]

My mind tells me hacker, and my demon mind tells me Phil is the hacker. Either way, pretty sure the account has been hacked and I'm wondering if this is the next ~gate to hit us.

Hacker was my first thought too, but the blue icon and header caught me off guard. It made me think of the Blue for Sudan thing going around Instagram. Iirc there wasn't a header/icon image on that account before but I could be misremembering. If it was always blue then I would say it's a hacker, but if it wasn't then I would be a little more confused. Why would someone have the moral ambiguity to hack someone else's Twitter account, change the icon to raise awareness for something, but then not tweet out anything more than a "hey"? Not saying it couldn't be a hacker if that was the case, just that it's kinda a weird sequence of events.

[Afunnyworld]

My mind tells me hacker, and my demon mind tells me Phil is the hacker. Either way, pretty sure the account has been hacked and I'm wondering if this is the next ~gate to hit us.

Hacker was my first thought too, but the blue icon and header caught me off guard. It made me think of the Blue for Sudan thing going around Instagram. Iirc there wasn't a header/icon image on that account before but I could be misremembering. If it was always blue then I would say it's a hacker, but if it wasn't then I would be a little more confused. Why would someone have the moral ambiguity to hack someone else's Twitter account, change the icon to raise awareness for something, but then not tweet out anything more than a "hey"? Not saying it couldn't be a hacker if that was the case, just that it's kinda a weird sequence of events.

If it is indeed the blue for Sudan symbol, and if it was recently changed, that might actually be a stronger indicator of the account being hacked, because according to this article people/bots are trying to gain followers and money by pretending to be advocates about the crisis.

[starwatersong]

1. Again, Dan's merch isn't really me, but I like it! I do love the hair touch on the skeleton.

2. Was wandering on YouTube today and found this fun slice of 2013 with a cameo from Mr. Isnotonfire. Enjoy if you haven't seen it!

[noodlebum]

Which of their fellow YouTubers do you think knew about Dan's sexuality/their relationship?
I'm thinking Cat and Louise as they were so obvious in their vlogs of trying to hide both.

[Lobster]

Which of their fellow YouTubers do you think knew about Dan's sexuality/their relationship?
I'm thinking Cat and Louise as they were so obvious in their vlogs of trying to hide both.

I think Pj and Chris have to have known. I'd say probably Tyler as well.
Wasn't there some comment in a Tomska vlog about not filming Dan and Phil? I think Jack Howard said something?? I'm assuming they knew. Although I could be completely making up that memory.

Edit: I found the clip I was thinking of. Not in a Tom vlog, but he was also there.

[Phantasy]

Which of their fellow YouTubers do you think knew about Dan's sexuality/their relationship?
I'm thinking Cat and Louise as they were so obvious in their vlogs of trying to hide both.

I think Pj and Chris have to have known. I'd say probably Tyler as well.
Wasn't there some comment in a Tomska vlog about not filming Dan and Phil? I think Jack Howard said something?? I'm assuming they knew. Although I could be completely making up that memory.

Edit: I found the clip I was thinking of. Not in a Tom vlog, but he was also there.

There’s probably only a small few that knew firsthand and a wider circle that knew secondhand. For instance, if they ever told Louise directly, then by extension Zoe and Alfie would know, then Joe and Caspar and so on.
It’s natural to assume Cat with all the times they hung out and her awkward “saves”, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they never actually told her (somehow that seems fitting). Tyler for sure (and by extension Troye and Connor). Tomska likely. Probably Mimei and Duncan. Anthony senpai. Pewds and Marzia (mostly because of PJ and Sofia).

I’m actually more curious about his family... I mean, his mom knew right? (Mom's always know). Her comments seemed to indicate that, but she maybe gave him the space to come out on his own terms. His brother... I mean, c’mon. I wonder what the rest of the letter said too... did he reveal his relationship status, or did they all find out in the video like the rest of us? That seems like a heavy lifting letter if so... I’m gay AND dating my best friend of 10 years. Hope he touches on it in the future.

[Ablissa]

I wanted to take a look at Dan's "hacked"? twitter and got the name wrong, found a funny tweet.

I wonder if Dan is aware of it the other twitter possibly being hacked?

[eevee]

Guys I'm genuinely surprised that Daniel's not in taylor swift's new pride video - it has an all lgbtq+ cast of celebrities and youtubers. the single (called You Need To Calm Down) came out June 13 and the video just came out on Monday. With how big a deal Dan made his coming out, merch and all, along with the matching up timing, I'm genuinely surprised he wasn't in it.
Then I thought well, he would have had to either shoot in the dark like "taylor are you making a gay song? i'm about to come out, i'll be in it" or the other way around "Daniel, are you gay? i have a gay video coming out" that being said Todrick Hall was the co-producer and was responsible for picking many of the people in the video. I'm not sure how much Daniel and Todrick interact if at all but if Todrick had known Dan was about to do this, it would've been too perfect. And with Dan planning it for a year, it totally could've worked out. Huge missed opportunity. ):

Also I wonder if he had Hector/everyone else who contributed to the video sign NDAs ahead of time?

In other news:

[Templeofshame]

I think Jack Howard said something?? I'm assuming they knew. Although I could be completely making up that memory.

Edit: I found the clip I was thinking of. Not in a Tom vlog, but he was also there.

I don't actually know things about Jack Howard but I have opinions on this just because the story of Jack outing Jimmy to Chels in 2013 is a pet fascination of mine. In that situation, Jimmy hadn't told him (he was going off rumors and/or guesses) and Jack was meeting Chels for the first time, so it wasn't sticking within a friend group. It seems to me like if Jack knew in a definitive way about D&P, it would have spread immediately, but then again maybe it did and it was just camouflaged by the usual shipping and rumors. And it does seem to me that even if Jack didn't know, he probably guessed and gossiped about it.

[alittledizzy]

My guess would be that almost no one knew for sure (PJ, Bryony, Ian) but that there was a wider subset of people that assumed because either they were present in 2009 and saw the formation of Dan and Phil as a duo (Jimmy, Cat, etc) or saw the Valentine's Day video when it leaked (basically everyone in the UK British youtube circle at that point or that came shortly after - Emma, Evan, Jack, etc) and gossiped as though it was fact but were far too removed Know because Dan and Phil actually wanted them to know.

I also doubt Tyler had it confirmed for him, but don't forget that Tyler and Cat were both VERY familiar with having close friends who were popular youtubers and closeted in that era. I think both of them would be the sort of people to see the situation, make assumptions, and proceed very with an attempt at tact but maybe sometimes clumsily so from that point on.

[eevee]

My guess would be that almost no one knew for sure (PJ, Bryony, Ian) but that there was a wider subset of people that assumed because either they were present in 2009 and saw the formation of Dan and Phil as a duo (Jimmy, Cat, etc) or saw the Valentine's Day video when it leaked (basically everyone in the UK British youtube circle at that point or that came shortly after - Emma, Evan, Jack, etc) and gossiped as though it was fact but were far too removed Know because Dan and Phil actually wanted them to know.

I also doubt Tyler had it confirmed for him, but don't forget that Tyler and Cat were both VERY familiar with having close friends who were popular youtubers and closeted in that era. I think both of them would be the sort of people to see the situation, make assumptions, and proceed very with an attempt at tact but maybe sometimes clumsily so from that point on.

This is the thing. If the entirety of the phandom basically knew, to the point where Daniel admitted it was "obvious," then what constitutes as "knowing" if you're a youtuber? I guess Daniel and Phil actually telling you.

For example Charlieskies and Teoh and Lex and PJ and everyone at that halloween gathering with the fountain and the famous hand-on-waist clip must have known. they weren't hiding it at that point. they kissed in public. so....

but then after that, it was obvious to everyone, general public included. So, if Daniel never told his friends or family, they must have had a pretty good idea just like we did. I personally would guess that some or all members of his family deliberately avoided consuming Daniel's content in order to stay in denial. Or just because it was awkward that it was right there, but Daniel hadn't told them.

I'm getting into hardcore speculation town but hey, what is idb about?

[Templeofshame]

There's also the fact of the Charlieskies outing situation, where people (e.g. Emma, Evan) were actively laughing at Dan and other people (wirrow) tried to deescalate the situation. I think it's tough to draw the lines of who knew for what reasons, when there are so many layers of rumors and assumptions and outings over the years (but probably pretty clear that most of those people knew for reasons that were not Dan or Phil telling them).

I guess basically I'm just agreeing with the previous couple posts and the fact that that YouTuber community gossiped a lot and outing wasn't a thing that just happened once (although I guess with more direct and less direct connections between Dan's sexuality and his relationship with Phil).

[alittledizzy]

My guess would be that almost no one knew for sure (PJ, Bryony, Ian) but that there was a wider subset of people that assumed because either they were present in 2009 and saw the formation of Dan and Phil as a duo (Jimmy, Cat, etc) or saw the Valentine's Day video when it leaked (basically everyone in the UK British youtube circle at that point or that came shortly after - Emma, Evan, Jack, etc) and gossiped as though it was fact but were far too removed Know because Dan and Phil actually wanted them to know.

I also doubt Tyler had it confirmed for him, but don't forget that Tyler and Cat were both VERY familiar with having close friends who were popular youtubers and closeted in that era. I think both of them would be the sort of people to see the situation, make assumptions, and proceed very with an attempt at tact but maybe sometimes clumsily so from that point on.

This is the thing. If the entirety of the phandom basically knew, to the point where Daniel admitted it was "obvious," then what constitutes as "knowing" if you're a youtuber? I guess Daniel and Phil actually telling you.

For example Charlieskies and Teoh and Lex and PJ and everyone at that halloween gathering with the fountain and the famous hand-on-waist clip must have known. they weren't hiding it at that point. they kissed in public. so....

but then after that, it was obvious to everyone, general public included. So, if Daniel never told his friends or family, they must have had a pretty good idea just like we did. I personally would guess that some or all members of his family deliberately avoided consuming Daniel's content in order to stay in denial. Or just because it was awkward that it was right there, but Daniel hadn't told them.

I'm getting into hardcore speculation town but hey, what is idb about?

Yeah, for me I'd count knowing as Dan and Phil telling you, though... like. Dan himself said that late 2009/into 2010 was a period of self acceptance for him, so I think they probably did casually confirm it to a lot of people that they just haru'd later on. Like you said, people at the Halloween gathering, people at parties that year, etc.

But even if they did confirm it via action in front of people but later on went stone-faced about it those people may have just ended up either doubting their perception or doing what most of fandom did and being very confused but taking Dan and Phil's cues on it and not mentioning things they saw/heard/knew previously. Or being Charlie and just cruelly not giving a shit.

[alittledizzy]

He is keeping up with those daily tweets, I'm impressed!

Also, hmmm.

[Birdie]

My guess would be that almost no one knew for sure (PJ, Bryony, Ian) but that there was a wider subset of people that assumed because either they were present in 2009 and saw the formation of Dan and Phil as a duo (Jimmy, Cat, etc) or saw the Valentine's Day video when it leaked (basically everyone in the UK British youtube circle at that point or that came shortly after - Emma, Evan, Jack, etc) and gossiped as though it was fact but were far too removed Know because Dan and Phil actually wanted them to know.

I also doubt Tyler had it confirmed for him, but don't forget that Tyler and Cat were both VERY familiar with having close friends who were popular youtubers and closeted in that era. I think both of them would be the sort of people to see the situation, make assumptions, and proceed very with an attempt at tact but maybe sometimes clumsily so from that point on.

That's what I wanted to say too, just based on the fact Dan wasn't even out to his family. I agree with the second part too. I actually kind of like how Cat apparently tried to protect them with all her awkward saves? She either knew because she's (or at least was) quite a close friend or she assumed and she did the right thing. I'm very curious if Louise knew by the way, but then I've always been curious if her and Dan are really as close as they used to say.

There's also the fact of the Charlieskies outing situation, where people (e.g. Emma, Evan) were actively laughing at Dan and other people (wirrow) tried to deescalate the situation.

This hits so much harder now he's come out somehow, especially considering that there's a good chance Charlie and Emma might have known or strongly suspected it based on what dizzy wrote. What they did is bad even if they'd done it to someone who was actually straight but with all that backstory added to it it's just unbelievably cruel.

(Also I woke up today and my English was weird, it's one of those days, I'm so sorry if I'm not making much sense.)

[Grey]

I’m thinking about the alternate timeline where dan posted that video last June and I’m kind of confused about it. If he had posted it then... they would have finished their tour with this being public knowledge? Would that even be safe? Also, the last PINOF would have been uploaded with this being public knowledge?!?! That’s so weird to me.
I don’t have a point. It’s just something I’ve been pondering.

[Ablissa]

The mysterious "DanHowell" continues to be confusing af, especially if you consider that Dan claims it's not him??

[rizzo]

Dan's been liking some real cute art on tumblr. It all continues to give me a lot of feelings.

[coffeepenguin]

I’m thinking about the alternate timeline where dan posted that video last June and I’m kind of confused about it. If he had posted it then... they would have finished their tour with this being public knowledge? Would that even be safe? Also, the last PINOF would have been uploaded with this being public knowledge?!?! That’s so weird to me.
I don’t have a point. It’s just something I’ve been pondering.

yeah I've been wondering, too! One of the first things I rewatched after seeing Dan's coming out video is that one liveshow he did after "Trying to Live My Truth" where he was being VERY DEFENSIVE about people "detecting penises" in what he said. And it's not like it actually "hits differently", as them kids say, because even then it was obvious he hadn't quite thought it through and was backtracking, but as I was watching it, now with the knowledge of what he went through, and thinking about how I just want to give him a hug, I was also struck by the realisation that in that liveshow he didn't seem in any way prepared to drop a coming out video going into even half as much details about his life as the one that we ended with. In the mukbang, Phil talked about Dan's breakdown before the start of II and how because of it Phil wasn't certain, until the very last moment, that they would be able to do it at all. I wonder if Dan's conflicted feelings about coming out, all while thinking about his relationship with his audience, as it was the show's central theme, is what caused that.

[knq]

The mysterious "DanHowell" continues to be confusing af, especially if you consider that Dan claims it's not him??

The account retweeted then deleted something about Trump. We can safely assume it's not Dan being trollish now.

[RiriPandaHeart2]

One thing that's been on my mind was whether their co-workers at the BBC and their management knew about their relationship or not. I don't think everyone knew (looking back on all the comments they said about being attracted to Dan... cause wouldn't that be awkward kind of jokingly flirting with him when Phil was there too?), but I'm thinking specifically Aled, Molly, and Jameela. I'm not sure who handled them at that time, but do you think at least Marianne knew? (Also, sorry for speculating Dan. i hope you're not on here. )

There's also a part of Dan's video which made me curious about who he was referring to. After saying that he basically shut down after people were prying into their relationship, he said this: "Most I'm sure just wanted what was best for me, and I feel such genuine sadness and I'm sorry that I couldn't be closer to and more truthful with the people in my life that were just trying to be nice, but I wasn't ready to deal with it at this time..."

It makes me think that people who really knew him tried to approach Dan (and probably Phil too) and gave him advice on how to deal with their problems, or who just wanted to be there for him at that time. But I think, from the way he said it, that he (they?) didn't really accept that help and decided on his (their?) own way of "containing" their problem. My other thought is that whether this statement extends to the well-intentioned fans who really just wanted them to be happy or if this was limited to people they know irl. I know I'll probably never know the answer to these questions, but I'm curious about what other people think about this.

[eevee]

One thing that's been on my mind was whether their co-workers at the BBC and their management knew about their relationship or not. I don't think everyone knew (looking back on all the comments they said about being attracted to Dan... cause wouldn't that be awkward kind of jokingly flirting with him when Phil was there too?), but I'm thinking specifically Aled, Molly, and Jameela. I'm not sure who handled them at that time, but do you think at least Marianne knew? (Also, sorry for speculating Dan. i hope you're not on here. )

I would think their coworkers at the BBC would be the last people Daniel and Phil would actually tell, considering it's a professional environment and that's none of their business. It's against social etiquette to ask questions like that at work. That being said it certainly does happen, and i'm sure things are more relaxed in the entertainment biz. Nosy people who would straight up ask them certainly exist, but in a professional environment it's the socially acceptable response to be like "none of your business." So, it's possible their coworkers speculated, but i would think it's incredibly doubtful that daniel or phil would ever tell them, or their coworkers would push the question.
Additionally the BBC job, according to Daniel's new video, was one of the things making him the most paranoid about being out, so I would think that Daniel would be doing everything in his power to keep them from knowing.

There's also a part of Dan's video which made me curious about who he was referring to. After saying that he basically shut down after people were prying into their relationship, he said this: "Most I'm sure just wanted what was best for me, and I feel such genuine sadness and I'm sorry that I couldn't be closer to and more truthful with the people in my life that were just trying to be nice, but I wasn't ready to deal with it at this time..."

It makes me think that people who really knew him tried to approach Dan (and probably Phil too) and gave him advice on how to deal with their problems, or who just wanted to be there for him at that time. But I think, from the way he said it, that he (they?) didn't really accept that help and decided on his (their?) own way of "containing" their problem. My other thought is that whether this statement extends to the well-intentioned fans who really just wanted them to be happy or if this was limited to people they know irl. I know I'll probably never know the answer to these questions, but I'm curious about what other people think about this.

Good question. I'm thinking it's possible and most likely that friends of Daniel's who were there from the start, meaning the halloween party/not hiding the relationship part, would feel they could reach out to Daniel about this once they see him struggling publicly, because they know for sure that he's with Phil. And maybe they did this even after them and Daniel drifted apart. So that could've upset Daniel at the time with how sensitive of a topic it was for him.

If any of his friends didn't get confirmation from him that he was dating Phil, and texted him all like "hey i know youre with phil and see you struggling are you ok" then that could've totally upset Daniel understandably, and i think that would've been a bit more of a dickish move on their part. However, it was incredibly obvious to the entire phandom that daniel was freaking out because he was indeed gay and was indeed with phil, so i can understand how a real life friend would see how obvious it was and think it'd be best to reach out.

I definitely think the statement was about fans however, I hadn't considered before this post that it could've been mainly about irl people. I say this because Daniel literally opened a tumblr called customer service where he WANTED fans to write him about this. In hindsight, terrible idea????? but at the time it was what he was doing. so i'm sure there were many fans who wrote in trying to give advice, which was not the point of the blog, the point was to "debunk the vday video" or whatever, but considering he was openly asking for his fans to write him about this, i can see why a fan would think it's okay to use that to give advice.

Now I'm also wondering if any youtubers reached out to him with advice from a PR standpoint. Like, what's the best way to put out an internet fandom fire? But I'm trying to think of who he would've been close with at the time who could've wanted to help. I guess maybe Charlie McDonnell?? The last video I can find of them together was from 2014, but I know that Dan uploaded a video with Charlie that's deleted, so i'm not sure if that was from before that. Was Dan in contact with the vlogbrothers at that time?? I'm trying to think of youtubers who would be at a big enough scale to have advice on this topic. Obviously chris and PJ are friends who could've reached out to Daniel, but I get the sense they 1. were smaller youtubers anyway and 2. knew everything via Daniel telling them so it probably wouldn't have really upset Daniel if they talked to him about it. Or maybe ???? he was denying it to even his close friends ??????? wow that's a whole nother concept.

You got me thinking a lot about this !!!!