Dan & Phil Part 87: post coming out universe

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
Locked
jhamba
procrastinator
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:00 pm
Pronouns: she/her

daichii wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:03 pm It makes me roll my eyes that it is suddenly an issue now that they're out and it wasn't an issue in the past 10 years that they didn't attend pride, since they were even more privileged them *presumably straight until proven otherwise*

I would have loved to see Phil at pride and for him to be more active and vocal on a LOT of things not just pride, but is not something he is into and has never been into. Perhaps if we stop comparing them we would focus on what they do and not what they don't do that the other does. I do imagine that the tune would be even worst if this was the other way around which shows how toxic it is to keep comparing them.
Yeah, this. It's actually been extremely frustrating, as a fan of them, that Phil isn't very active and vocal. I'd love to see more of that. Even a few years ago, I actually did assign malicious intent to him, but honestly, as I've grown older, I've just had to accept that public advocacy isn't for everyone, and sometimes, it's even the better move to shut the hell up. You can even see the times when Dan gets into trouble for saying something wrong, just because he's the more vocal one.

I still want Phil to be more vocal, though. But, it's not his job or something he is obligated to do. You could stop watching him for it. I know I stopped watching them for political reasons for a while (hanging out with pewdiepie. ew), and that's actually a move that's sometimes better for your MH.

So, yeah, Phil needs to stop being Taylor Swift
Last edited by jhamba on Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just trying to spread the Dangirl agenda
User avatar
LtrllySusan
lava lamp
Posts: 954
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 4:09 pm

I was just hoping that the parade day would sort of mark the return of Dan and Phil. But apart from the fact that they both posted a coming out video (which I don't want to take away from!), we're back to the odd tweet or Instagram story. Would love to hear what their YouTube-related plans are.
thatone
delia smith
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:06 pm

Pride is not obligatory.
One does not have any extra responsibility if one is a guy who is attracted to guys. As if it doesn't come with enough extra pressure already.
Howells
first-time poster
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:37 pm

Hi IDB!

LONGGGG time lurker recently joined.
I honestly think that Dan has done AMAZING for his first pride. I was terrified on my first out pride, and only towards the end did it bed in. We have NO clue whatsoever as to what the situation is behind the camera/social media account, so I'm not at all upset with Phil for not showering London Pride with more engagement.

What I DO feel the need to comment though is that PATRONIZING people who you engage with in a conversation and drawing comparisons to movements that are a totally different genre/topic is quite frankly a dreadful way to behave in a community and in general. (Looking at your comments @phanfckingtastic).
As someone who is in a demographic that can often be treated with vile and hateful comments, I'd think you'd take a look at what you're actually saying and take your own advice.

....anyway. HI!!! 😌😌😌
User avatar
AltMay
glabella
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:04 pm
Location: Argentina

I wouldn't have expected Phil to march or be an activist before he came out, and I don't think coming out changes that. He might or might not have a thousand reasons for not going, but it's just as unlikely for me to see him there now as it was before his video.

That said, i believe everything we choose to do or not to do on a day to day basis is a political expression and therefore attending a march is just one side of our involvement. Social change takes a long ass process, it doesn't just happen overnight and every individual has a right to commit to it in whatever way they feel comfortable. I agree there are certain obligations that inherently come with being a public figure, but the way they are met is not for us to decide cause ultimately they are people too.
I think what Phil brings to his fanbase is as important as what Dan brings, they just choose to vocalize it differently.
Image

The world is an amazing place, look at it instead of your flaws.
User avatar
sparkle
blobfish
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:12 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: UK

Fucking hell. Gay man doesn't go to Pride. Gay man who is a real, feeling person and no amount of clout or privilege can change that.
phanfckingtastic wrote: How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019.
And choosing how you live also means choosing to NOT go to Pride. Works both ways.

And I'm speaking as someone who the day after my birthday had to ring 999 due to being followed by someone shouting homophobic abuse out of a car at me and my girlfriend.

Yes I would have liked to see Phil there but he isn't my Barbie doll activist. I like Phil because he makes me laugh, he makes me feel safe, and because when I met him he was one of the nicest people I've ever met who made me feel valued. Not because he suddenly needs to be some Queer Activist.

truth is we don't know his reasons and we don't know what he is planning on doing
:sparkle: dan howell gives me life :sparkle:
don't waste your time
or time will waste you
:sparkle:
User avatar
phanfckingtastic
living flop
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:47 pm
Pronouns: he/him

eevee wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:05 pm
phanfckingtastic wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:54 pm Cool, if it means nothing then let’s just never do anything, especially nothing to ever disturb sweet baby angel phil who apparently everybody knows saves the world in many areas in his spare time, and have celebrities constantly share about clothes and food and animals on social media, but nothing else, ever. That’s great. Fuck the metoo movement, fuck blm, fuck years of insistence and public pressure for marriage equality. We’re fine. How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019. I forgot normal rules never apply to magical deities dan and phil.
You don’t understand how it’s important that people of a group who are better off stand up for the less privileged of that group? Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
I stg it’s almost creepy how dan and phil get away with anything here. (Except droughts. Those are unforgivable.)
Anyway, I’ve said all I had to say. Time to go back to the real world.
You're accusing us of blindly supporting a problematic move by Phil because we love Phil, but in my opinion, if you'd really read our responses, you'd see that we have thought-out reasons for arguing that Phil is not obligated to be a queer activist. You can think that we pulled that out of our butts for this situation, but in reality we all just disagree with you on that point. And trying to call us out for just blindingly supporting Phil really downplays all of our opinions on this. I'm sorry but I don't think you're right about this and I don't agree with what you're saying, and same with many of the other members of this forum. If you were saying this about anyone else I still wouldn't agree.

it is important to stand up for less privileged members of a marginalized community. That does not give anyone an obligation.
We disagree on it being an obligation.

What you ARE pulling out of your ass, is insisting on misreading my posts to have a valid argument, because like I said before, here on idb it’s double down no matter what, and you guys love to gang up on people with criticisms against d&p.

I literally said he doesn’t have to be an “activist”, make serious content or even GO to the parade. So if you reply stating I said that because you can’t justify how he didn’t even TWEET AN EMOJI, then, yes, you’re making stuff up and using hyperbole like a blind cult follower to pretend like I’m demanding impossibly extreme things.
Let’s not even get into the list of made up excuses you guys have, and the secret charity work because that’s just fiction.

A tweet. A scheduled tweet. That he’s tweeted on previous years. At least to cover face that his last tweet is to sell stuff to the now excited post coming out universe inhabitants. The bar is so low it’s insane. A single tweet is now activism I shouldn’t expect from a guy like phil? wow.
People can have good intentions and still fuck up, you know? That’s human. And I can call out public figures even if they’re good people for coming short or being hypocritical.

(Also, a previous post I just saw... pot, kettle, they’re my dolls? Lmao I hope you have never blogged tweeted or posted about them hugging at the parade, holding hands or any other cutesy imagine about their very real lives as a gay couple bc if you have... I mean)
eternal dan and phil mood -> :happytears:
Omgsonew
crusty sponge
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:30 pm

phanfckingtastic wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:54 pm Cool, if it means nothing then let’s just never do anything, especially nothing to ever disturb sweet baby angel phil who apparently everybody knows saves the world in many areas in his spare time, and have celebrities constantly share about clothes and food and animals on social media, but nothing else, ever. That’s great. Fuck the metoo movement, fuck blm, fuck years of insistence and public pressure for marriage equality. We’re fine. How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019. I forgot normal rules never apply to magical deities dan and phil.
You don’t understand how it’s important that people of a group who are better off stand up for the less privileged of that group? Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
I stg it’s almost creepy how dan and phil get away with anything here. (Except droughts. Those are unforgivable.)
Anyway, I’ve said all I had to say. Time to go back to the real world.
I empathise with your frustration so much. In the past, I've also been angry and bitter at privileged celebrities wasting their platforms to do good in the world even at a super basic level.

As you seem to be very goal-oriented and nothing anyone's countered you with regarding ethics/philosophy has affected your opinions, please at least hear this: being tough on queer people and demanding more from them than they give SCARES other queer people from even trying or coming out in the first place. No one wants that kind of pressure and scrutiny; to be thrust into the role of an activist and an ambassador just because of what you are, and then be heavily criticised from a million new angles where people link your failures as an individual to why homophobia exists and people are suffering.

Objectively, yes, battles don't get won if no one fights. Shying away from activism is personally something I don't really like in another person, even if I recognise the unfairness of the situation and their inherent right to not engage with it. But I believe you are doing more harm for your cause than good by spreading the feeling that pride is something you have to do RIGHT. From a moral standpoint, I disagree with placing the responsibility entirely on the shoulders of the oppressed, but if you won't listen to such reasoning, then my standpoint as someone like you who wants practical effect in the world is that you catch more flies with honey.
Last edited by Omgsonew on Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jhamba
procrastinator
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:00 pm
Pronouns: she/her

jhamba wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:15 pm
daichii wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:03 pm It makes me roll my eyes that it is suddenly an issue now that they're out and it wasn't an issue in the past 10 years that they didn't attend pride, since they were even more privileged them *presumably straight until proven otherwise*

I would have loved to see Phil at pride and for him to be more active and vocal on a LOT of things not just pride, but is not something he is into and has never been into. Perhaps if we stop comparing them we would focus on what they do and not what they don't do that the other does. I do imagine that the tune would be even worst if this was the other way around which shows how toxic it is to keep comparing them.
Yeah, this. It's actually been extremely frustrating, as a fan of them, that Phil isn't very active and vocal. I'd love to see more of that. Even a few years ago, I actually did assign malicious intent to him, but honestly, as I've grown older, I've just had to accept that public advocacy isn't for everyone, and sometimes, it's even the better move to shut the hell up. You can even see the times when Dan gets into trouble for saying something wrong, just because he's the more vocal one.

I still want Phil to be more vocal, though. But, it's not his job or something he is obligated to do. You could stop watching him for it. I know I stopped watching them for political reasons for a while (hanging out with pewdiepie. ew), and that's actually a move that's sometimes better for your MH.

So, yeah, Phil needs to stop being Taylor Swift
When I say he needs to do this, I mean, it'll be better for his public image. But, honestly, I've accepted that Phil is not very good at PR, and he should be grateful that he has Dan who is so vocal, loud, and instinctively understands PR extremely well.
Just trying to spread the Dangirl agenda
User avatar
kavat
pastel persona
Posts: 1365
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:36 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: scandinavia

There are a 1000 ways to support the queer community, or any marginalized community. Marching at Pride is one of them. Supporting Pride from the sidelines is another. Supporting charities, publicly or not, is valid. Creating safe spaces is also very important.

Like two days ago this forum was filled with queer stories, and many of them included how they felt safe and supported in the phandom. The community that Dan and Phil has built during the past 10 years has grown into a place where queer people feel safe and supported. And in some weird full circle way, that led to Dan and Phil themselves feeling safe enough to come out to us.

Standing at the barricades is important, but we can't forget all the more silent ways one can take action.
User avatar
nilidh
tol bean
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:55 pm
Pronouns: he/him
Location: scotland

daichii wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:03 pm It makes me roll my eyes that it is suddenly an issue now that they're out and it wasn't an issue in the past 10 years that they didn't attend pride, since they were even more privileged them *presumably straight until proven otherwise*
this is the crux of what is irritating me about the whole debate, i think. phil’s been out online for a week, and suddenly he’s supposed to be the face of queer political activism? it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that gay people are expected to be inherent advocates and experts when we sit by and watch so many straight celebrities do absolutely nothing.

no one saying is that we should just throw all activism out the window. we’re saying that we don’t need to have an all or nothing view. not doing as much as perhaps he could doesn’t mean what he has done is meaningless.

off-topic to the main discussion about phil, but the notion that no one on this forum has experienced the ~real world~ cracks me up. what would i, a homeless, bisexual, university dropout with mental health issues know about ~the real world~?
User avatar
phanfckingtastic
living flop
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:47 pm
Pronouns: he/him

Omgsonew wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:31 pm
phanfckingtastic wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:54 pm Cool, if it means nothing then let’s just never do anything, especially nothing to ever disturb sweet baby angel phil who apparently everybody knows saves the world in many areas in his spare time, and have celebrities constantly share about clothes and food and animals on social media, but nothing else, ever. That’s great. Fuck the metoo movement, fuck blm, fuck years of insistence and public pressure for marriage equality. We’re fine. How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019. I forgot normal rules never apply to magical deities dan and phil.
You don’t understand how it’s important that people of a group who are better off stand up for the less privileged of that group? Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
I stg it’s almost creepy how dan and phil get away with anything here. (Except droughts. Those are unforgivable.)
Anyway, I’ve said all I had to say. Time to go back to the real world.
I empathise with your frustration so much. In the past, I've also been angry and bitter at privileged celebrities wasting their platforms to do good in the world even at a super basic level.

As you seem to be very goal-oriented and nothing anyone's countered you with regarding ethics/philosophy has affected your opinions, please at least hear this: being tough on queer people and demanding more from them than they give SCARES other queer people from even trying or coming out in the first place. No one wants that kind of pressure and scrutiny; to be thrust into the role of an activist and an ambassador just because of what you are, and then be heavily criticised from a million new angles where people link your failures as an individual to why homophobia exists and people are suffering.

Objectively, yes, battles don't get won if no one fights. Shying away from activism is personally something I don't really like in another person, even if I recognise the unfairness of the situation and their inherent right to not engage with it. But I believe you are doing more harm for your cause than good by spreading the feeling that pride is something you have to do RIGHT. From a moral standpoint, I disagree with placing the responsibility entirely on the shoulders of the oppressed, but if you won't listen to such reasoning, then my standpoint as someone like you who wants practical effect in the world is that you catch more flies with honey.
This is why it’s impossible to have a discussion here.
I never said what he had to say or do. Just a simple gesture of acknowledgment. A tweet, a photo, 10 mins at the parade bar, an ig story of a flag. A tweet today, vague and just saying he didn’t go? Yes, I’m very unimpressed.

BUT

My demands, for the 100th time, are from phil. Not all queer people, not each forum user, not your lesbian grandma. I do personally believe we all as people (and LGTBQ+) ought to help those less privileged as much as we can. Again, if you’re safe and out, in case of us queers. I mainly talked about phil, who is barely owning up to the symbolic responsibility that comes with being in the single digits percentage of peoole of certain privilege in the whole fucking wide world. That’s all.

That’s not doing “more harm”, that’s being an adult and telling it like it is.

Not everything you read or hear is secretly about you. Not every comment on dan and phil is about you (collective you), either.
And even if it indirectly touched anybody reading this in any way, it’s on the reader, not on me.
I’ve been clear and I’m understanding of people’s circumstances. I would’ve respected it more if phil had tweeted “I wasn’t able to go”, for instance. Even without further explanation.
I’m not so understanding of the need to jump to the defense of a highly privileged man against valid criticism like I’m punching a baby in the face.
eternal dan and phil mood -> :happytears:
Omgsonew
crusty sponge
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:30 pm

Templeofshame wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:42 pm
Omgsonew wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:13 pm

On another note, the possibility of Dan and Phil's relationship taking different forms over the years is a theory I personally haven't seen brought up. The manner in which he neither confirms nor denies them being together now makes me feel pretty sure that they are -
"And I bet so many people want to know so much more about that, which, honestly, I take as a compliment, but here’s the thing: I’m somebody that wants to keep the details of my personal life private. So is Phil. I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that. I want to do certain things without an audience. I want to be spontaneous. I don’t want to feel afraid to take risks. I want to enjoy totally fucking something up and not have to post a public statement about it. And if anyone thinks people really have to share these things about their life, you need to rethink your position."
- but approaching it from the angle of not wanting to have to make a declaration to the world if something changes might imply there was a time when they weren't. I guess it's still a strong possibility that they have been together the entire time and are just super cautious of the fact that no one can predict the future and literally any couple could break up, but a consistent 10 year relationship seems, to me at least, too stable of a thing to still be dedicatedly doubtful of.

Idk this is just wild speculation on my part, but I could read it as them not wanting to publicly commit to a current relationship status because it has changed in the past and they don't want to say for sure that it won't again. Even though they probably are together and, regardless, will surely always be in each other's lives no matter what form their relationship takes.
It seems pretty clear to me that
"I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that."
is talking about how other YouTubers make their relationship very public and very much a part of their branding and the entertainment they're selling, and that leads to Drama and breakup videos and all of that. While it's not impossible that their relationship status has undergone some change at some point, here Dan seems to be very specifically comparing how other YouTubers produce relationship-based content to what he and Phil want for how their relationship works with their position in the public eye.
I mean, yeah, he is talking about that, but as he jumps from talking about his and Phil's relationship to "as soon as something changes, suddenly it's this huge drama", and then alludes a second time to not wanting public scrutiny in a time of change by saying he doesn't want to post a statement if he fucks something up... I guess it's possible he is just serving us a swerve ball because he didn't switch subject matters clearly enough, and maybe I'm reading into it too much, but closely linking two topics may denote meaning between them.
jhamba
procrastinator
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:00 pm
Pronouns: she/her

Omgsonew wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:58 pm
Templeofshame wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:42 pmIt seems pretty clear to me that
"I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that."
is talking about how other YouTubers make their relationship very public and very much a part of their branding and the entertainment they're selling, and that leads to Drama and breakup videos and all of that. While it's not impossible that their relationship status has undergone some change at some point, here Dan seems to be very specifically comparing how other YouTubers produce relationship-based content to what he and Phil want for how their relationship works with their position in the public eye.
I mean, yeah, he is talking about that, but as he jumps from talking about his and Phil's relationship to "as soon as something changes, suddenly it's this huge drama", and then alludes a second time to not wanting public scrutiny in a time of change by saying he doesn't want to post a statement if he fucks something up... I guess it's possible he is just serving us a swerve ball because he didn't switch subject matters clearly enough, and maybe I'm reading into it too much, but closely linking two topics may denote meaning between them.
Just here to say that I'm very upset that they're choosing not to be like Matthew Lush and Nick Cage, who had the best relationship youtube ever saw.... :ribena: . Dan and Phil could definitely learn a thing or two from them
Just trying to spread the Dangirl agenda
User avatar
eevee
emo goose
Posts: 1183
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 6:26 pm
Location: USA

jhamba wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:03 pm Just here to say that I'm very upset that they're choosing not to be like Matthew Lush and Nick Cage, who had the best relationship youtube ever saw.... :ribena: . Dan and Phil could definitely learn a thing or two from them
nickalaws? or did he date another nick?
Image
Phil looks like he went to sleep at 6 AM and is dying inside, Dan glows like he spent the night having orgasms - Ticia
jhamba
procrastinator
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:00 pm
Pronouns: she/her

eevee wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:12 pm
jhamba wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:03 pm Just here to say that I'm very upset that they're choosing not to be like Matthew Lush and Nick Cage, who had the best relationship youtube ever saw.... :ribena: . Dan and Phil could definitely learn a thing or two from them
nickalaws? or did he date another nick?
oh yeah, nicklaws. Iconic
Just trying to spread the Dangirl agenda
Omgsonew
crusty sponge
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:30 pm

phanfckingtastic wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:51 pm
Omgsonew wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:31 pm
phanfckingtastic wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:54 pm Cool, if it means nothing then let’s just never do anything, especially nothing to ever disturb sweet baby angel phil who apparently everybody knows saves the world in many areas in his spare time, and have celebrities constantly share about clothes and food and animals on social media, but nothing else, ever. That’s great. Fuck the metoo movement, fuck blm, fuck years of insistence and public pressure for marriage equality. We’re fine. How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019. I forgot normal rules never apply to magical deities dan and phil.
You don’t understand how it’s important that people of a group who are better off stand up for the less privileged of that group? Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
I stg it’s almost creepy how dan and phil get away with anything here. (Except droughts. Those are unforgivable.)
Anyway, I’ve said all I had to say. Time to go back to the real world.
I empathise with your frustration so much. In the past, I've also been angry and bitter at privileged celebrities wasting their platforms to do good in the world even at a super basic level.

As you seem to be very goal-oriented and nothing anyone's countered you with regarding ethics/philosophy has affected your opinions, please at least hear this: being tough on queer people and demanding more from them than they give SCARES other queer people from even trying or coming out in the first place. No one wants that kind of pressure and scrutiny; to be thrust into the role of an activist and an ambassador just because of what you are, and then be heavily criticised from a million new angles where people link your failures as an individual to why homophobia exists and people are suffering.

Objectively, yes, battles don't get won if no one fights. Shying away from activism is personally something I don't really like in another person, even if I recognise the unfairness of the situation and their inherent right to not engage with it. But I believe you are doing more harm for your cause than good by spreading the feeling that pride is something you have to do RIGHT. From a moral standpoint, I disagree with placing the responsibility entirely on the shoulders of the oppressed, but if you won't listen to such reasoning, then my standpoint as someone like you who wants practical effect in the world is that you catch more flies with honey.
This is why it’s impossible to have a discussion here.
I never said what he had to say or do. Just a simple gesture of acknowledgment. A tweet, a photo, 10 mins at the parade bar, an ig story of a flag. A tweet today, vague and just saying he didn’t go? Yes, I’m very unimpressed.

BUT

My demands, for the 100th time, are from phil. Not all queer people, not each forum user, not your lesbian grandma. I do personally believe we all as people (and LGTBQ+) ought to help those less privileged as much as we can. Again, if you’re safe and out, in case of us queers. I mainly talked about phil, who is barely owning up to the symbolic responsibility that comes with being in the single digits percentage of peoole of certain privilege in the whole fucking wide world. That’s all.

That’s not doing “more harm”, that’s being an adult and telling it like it is.

Not everything you read or hear is secretly about you. Not every comment on dan and phil is about you (collective you), either.
And even if it indirectly touched anybody reading this in any way, it’s on the reader, not on me.
I’ve been clear and I’m understanding of people’s circumstances. I would’ve respected it more if phil had tweeted “I wasn’t able to go”, for instance. Even without further explanation.
I’m not so understanding of the need to jump to the defense of a highly privileged man against valid criticism like I’m punching a baby in the face.
Hey I understand that you're pissed because the whole forum is arguing against you so you're probably rolling us all into one, but I didn't really defend Phil specifically at any point. I don't even particularly like him. And I agree with your desire for justice. What I'm saying is, no matter WHO your criticisms are directed at, no matter HOW many times you specify it's just the very privileged rich dudes you aren't impressed with, queer people WILL read it and be intimidated by it. I've known too many cases of this over the years.

Let me reiterate since it seems you barely even read my previous post: I'm not saying that's good. I'm not saying they are right and you are wrong. I'm saying that it will happen no matter what. You need to be realistic about that. The best those of us who are out and loud and proud can do for the quieter ones is make the environment feel more comfortable for them to raise their voices if they get there. Harshly criticising a celebrity who just came out for not doing good enough as a queer person is... detrimental to that. And contributes, however marginally, to a culture that places all the responsibility on the oppressed, which just isn't fair.
Last edited by Omgsonew on Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
eevee
emo goose
Posts: 1183
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 6:26 pm
Location: USA

jhamba wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:13 pm oh yeah, nicklaws. Iconic
their relationship ended up ending kinda tragically becaue matthew was way more into nick than nick was into him, and matthew was into these big over the top displays of love, like decorating the whole house for valentines day, and nick was just a little more shy and not so into the youtube PDA. But for a while they were definitely adorable yes.

i think dan and phil acting like jenna and julien on youtube would be ideal scenario for me :)
Image
Phil looks like he went to sleep at 6 AM and is dying inside, Dan glows like he spent the night having orgasms - Ticia
AmethystHollis
smol bean
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:24 pm

phanfckingtastic wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:51 pm
This is why it’s impossible to have a discussion here.
what i'm seeing here and on the last few pages is that YOU have an opinion what nobody fully agrees with and having a discussion about why phil did what he did/not, while YOU try to convince everyone that your opinion is what everybody should agree with on how phil should have acted.

it's discussion but not one you like. move on... or don't and repeat again and again the same thing: phil is a privileged rich white cis man with a platform who doesn't use his influence in a way that you like. that's the only fact here: you don't agree with his actions. and that's of course fine but doesn't mean that you are absolutely right without a question.
User avatar
knq
lava lamp
Posts: 956
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:42 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: USA

Dunno if anyone else is ready to move on to talking about bread again, but

Phil's IG story reminded me of a liveshow where he said romantic compatibility should be determined by the type of Haribo a person likes. Apparently there's 'gummy' haribo and 'foamy' haribo, both of which come in a Starmix Haribo bag. So if you find a partner who likes the type that you don't, you're basically soulmates because you can eat the whole bag of Haribo without fighting.

Now, we know Dan and Phil are compatible from Dan's perspective, but what about Phil's? Which kind of Haribo does Dan prefer?

2013 liveshow timestamp for fun
jhamba
procrastinator
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:00 pm
Pronouns: she/her

eevee wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:15 pmtheir relationship ended up ending kinda tragically becaue matthew was way more into nick than nick was into him, and matthew was into these big over the top displays of love, like decorating the whole house for valentines day, and nick was just a little more shy and not so into the youtube PDA. But for a while they were definitely adorable yes.

i think dan and phil acting like jenna and julien on youtube would be ideal scenario for me :)
I was trying to be sarcastic, but I can't go on any longer. I think matt lush was a creep, and the relationship was the most horrifying thing I've ever seen, and I'm glad Dan and Phil were never like that. I honestly think Dan and Phil don't need to change at all, they've been in the glass closet for long enough that we know how they act on camera, and there doesn't need to be much reason for them to change unless they want to.
Just trying to spread the Dangirl agenda
Templeofshame
rainbow nerd
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:46 pm
Pronouns: she/her

Omgsonew wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:58 pm
Templeofshame wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:42 pm
Omgsonew wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:13 pm

On another note, the possibility of Dan and Phil's relationship taking different forms over the years is a theory I personally haven't seen brought up. The manner in which he neither confirms nor denies them being together now makes me feel pretty sure that they are -
"And I bet so many people want to know so much more about that, which, honestly, I take as a compliment, but here’s the thing: I’m somebody that wants to keep the details of my personal life private. So is Phil. I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that. I want to do certain things without an audience. I want to be spontaneous. I don’t want to feel afraid to take risks. I want to enjoy totally fucking something up and not have to post a public statement about it. And if anyone thinks people really have to share these things about their life, you need to rethink your position."
- but approaching it from the angle of not wanting to have to make a declaration to the world if something changes might imply there was a time when they weren't. I guess it's still a strong possibility that they have been together the entire time and are just super cautious of the fact that no one can predict the future and literally any couple could break up, but a consistent 10 year relationship seems, to me at least, too stable of a thing to still be dedicatedly doubtful of.

Idk this is just wild speculation on my part, but I could read it as them not wanting to publicly commit to a current relationship status because it has changed in the past and they don't want to say for sure that it won't again. Even though they probably are together and, regardless, will surely always be in each other's lives no matter what form their relationship takes.
It seems pretty clear to me that
"I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that."
is talking about how other YouTubers make their relationship very public and very much a part of their branding and the entertainment they're selling, and that leads to Drama and breakup videos and all of that. While it's not impossible that their relationship status has undergone some change at some point, here Dan seems to be very specifically comparing how other YouTubers produce relationship-based content to what he and Phil want for how their relationship works with their position in the public eye.
I mean, yeah, he is talking about that, but as he jumps from talking about his and Phil's relationship to "as soon as something changes, suddenly it's this huge drama", and then alludes a second time to not wanting public scrutiny in a time of change by saying he doesn't want to post a statement if he fucks something up... I guess it's possible he is just serving us a swerve ball because he didn't switch subject matters clearly enough, and maybe I'm reading into it too much, but closely linking two topics may denote meaning between them.
I found some parts of the structure confusing, but that bit seemed pretty clear (sorry if I'm repeating myself). They're private people, they're not interested in monetizing their relationship and making it into a soap opera like some YouTuber couples. They want to do some things without an audience.

Then it does get murkier because it seems to me that he's trying to transition out of talking about their relationship and draw focus back to himself and his journey. He wants to take risks and do things without scrutiny. I guess I don't see the argument that he's talking about his relationship with Phil in that bit at all? Like I don't think he's saying he wants to enjoy fucking up his relationship without judgment, that would be pretty fucked up. I think he's broadening the category of things he wants to do without an audience out (not just relationship stuff). And he invites us not to feel entitled to info about any of that (relationship or risks he wants to take on his own). And then he goes back into sex/sexuality being a personal thing and why people might be closeted and how outing them sucks.

That's my read. I just don't see any indication in there of breaks or open periods in the relationship.
User avatar
eevee
emo goose
Posts: 1183
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 6:26 pm
Location: USA

knq wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:19 pm Dunno if anyone else is ready to move on to talking about bread again, but

Phil's IG story reminded me of a liveshow where he said romantic compatibility should be determined by the type of Haribo a person likes. Apparently there's 'gummy' haribo and 'foamy' haribo, both of which come in a Starmix Haribo bag. So if you find a partner who likes the type that you don't, you're basically soulmates because you can eat the whole bag of Haribo without fighting.

Now, we know Dan and Phil are compatible from Dan's perspective, but what about Phil's? Which kind of Haribo does Dan prefer?

2013 liveshow timestamp for fun
DID SOMEONE SAY BREAD?

how about japanese bread?

Image

Image

Image

also, can any haribo lovers confirm the gummy vs foamy haribo? i googled starmix and there seem to be multiple different types, and they all seem to only have "gummy" snacks, except this one that has eggs that maybe are "foamy"??

Image

edit:
jhamba wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:22 pm I was trying to be sarcastic, but I can't go on any longer. I think matt lush was a creep, and the relationship was the most horrifying thing I've ever seen, and I'm glad Dan and Phil were never like that. I honestly think Dan and Phil don't need to change at all, they've been in the glass closet for long enough that we know how they act on camera, and there doesn't need to be much reason for them to change unless they want to.
oh sorry, guess i was oblivious :shrug:
Image
Phil looks like he went to sleep at 6 AM and is dying inside, Dan glows like he spent the night having orgasms - Ticia
User avatar
poweroftriangles
pumpkin spice pumpkin cookie
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:43 am
Pronouns: he/him
Location: Asia

jhamba wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:15 pm
So, yeah, Phil needs to stop being Taylor Swift
Did I... miss something?

Taylor Swift is a straight cis woman equating homophobia to people talking about her "feud" with Katy Perry.
Phil is a gay man who decided, for whatever reason, not to attend Pride.

I feel like people just want to pile onto famous(ish) people for no reason. If he did talk about BLM or MeToo, someone would say it's not his place, as a white man. Mainly on Tumblr, but sometimes even on other parts of the internet, there's such an urge to be contrarian and criticise public figures just to look more woke or whatever. I think this is an offshoot of cancel/callout culture, the "woker-than-thou" culture.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but I think we can all balance wanting better from our favs and having unreasonable and unfounded expectations.
anti-YouNow club :sarcasticclap:
User avatar
eevee
emo goose
Posts: 1183
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 6:26 pm
Location: USA

poweroftriangles wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:33 pm
jhamba wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:15 pm
So, yeah, Phil needs to stop being Taylor Swift
Did I... miss something?

Taylor Swift is a straight cis woman equating homophobia to people talking about her "feud" with Katy Perry.
Phil is a gay man who decided, for whatever reason, not to attend Pride.

I feel like people just want to pile onto famous(ish) people for no reason. If he did talk about BLM or MeToo, someone would say it's not his place, as a white man. Mainly on Tumblr, but sometimes even on other parts of the internet, there's such an urge to be contrarian and criticise public figures just to look more woke or whatever. I think this is an offshoot of cancel/callout culture, the "woker-than-thou" culture.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but I think we can all balance wanting better from our favs and having unreasonable and unfounded expectations.
I think they might've been talking about how taylor swift was silent on political topics for the first 12 years of her career, comparing that to phil being silent on political or social justice topics. Taylor recently broke her silence though and has endorsed a Tennessee democrat and urged people to support the Equality Act.

edit: oh, and she was literally part of metoo lol

I will also say that we don't know for sure that Taylor is straight thank youuuuu
Last edited by eevee on Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Phil looks like he went to sleep at 6 AM and is dying inside, Dan glows like he spent the night having orgasms - Ticia
Locked