Dan & Phil Part 87: post coming out universe

[jhamba]

So, yeah, Phil needs to stop being Taylor Swift

Did I... miss something?

Taylor Swift is a straight cis woman equating homophobia to people talking about her "feud" with Katy Perry.
Phil is a gay man who decided, for whatever reason, not to attend Pride.

I feel like people just want to pile onto famous(ish) people for no reason. If he did talk about BLM or MeToo, someone would say it's not his place, as a white man. Mainly on Tumblr, but sometimes even on other parts of the internet, there's such an urge to be contrarian and criticise public figures just to look more woke or whatever. I think this is an offshoot of cancel/callout culture, the "woker-than-thou" culture.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but I think we can all balance wanting better from our favs and having unreasonable and unfounded expectations.

I meant way back, when people thought she was actively a nazi bc she never talked about politics. Now, she's just a mildly unpleasant person, but not really percieved as a nazi. Sorry, I'm really not up to date with pop culture. (although, some people think she is wlw, and there is some compelling evidence for it? idk, I have friends who believe it)

I think they might've been talking about how taylor swift was silent on political topics for the first 12 years of her career, comparing that to phil being silent on political or social justice topics. Taylor recently broke her silence though and has endorsed a Tennessee democrat and urged people to support the Equality Act.

I will also say that we don't know for sure that Taylor is straight thank youuuuu

yeah, this

[knq]

Dunno if anyone else is ready to move on to talking about bread again, but

Phil's IG story reminded me of a liveshow where he said romantic compatibility should be determined by the type of Haribo a person likes. Apparently there's 'gummy' haribo and 'foamy' haribo, both of which come in a Starmix Haribo bag. So if you find a partner who likes the type that you don't, you're basically soulmates because you can eat the whole bag of Haribo without fighting.

Now, we know Dan and Phil are compatible from Dan's perspective, but what about Phil's? Which kind of Haribo does Dan prefer?

2013 liveshow timestamp for fun

DID SOMEONE SAY BREAD?

how about japanese bread?







also, can any haribo lovers confirm the gummy vs foamy haribo? i googled starmix and there seem to be multiple different types, and they all seem to only have "gummy" snacks, except this one that has eggs that maybe are "foamy"??



edit:

I was trying to be sarcastic, but I can't go on any longer. I think matt lush was a creep, and the relationship was the most horrifying thing I've ever seen, and I'm glad Dan and Phil were never like that. I honestly think Dan and Phil don't need to change at all, they've been in the glass closet for long enough that we know how they act on camera, and there doesn't need to be much reason for them to change unless they want to.

oh sorry, guess i was oblivious

That's some cute bear bread.

Having thought about it, and not actually knowing what foamy Haribo is, I think Dan and Phil must both prefer the gummy. What are they if not people who fight over the whole bag of Haribo?

[Omgsonew]

On another note, the possibility of Dan and Phil's relationship taking different forms over the years is a theory I personally haven't seen brought up. The manner in which he neither confirms nor denies them being together now makes me feel pretty sure that they are -

"And I bet so many people want to know so much more about that, which, honestly, I take as a compliment, but here’s the thing: I’m somebody that wants to keep the details of my personal life private. So is Phil. I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that. I want to do certain things without an audience. I want to be spontaneous. I don’t want to feel afraid to take risks. I want to enjoy totally fucking something up and not have to post a public statement about it. And if anyone thinks people really have to share these things about their life, you need to rethink your position."

- but approaching it from the angle of not wanting to have to make a declaration to the world if something changes might imply there was a time when they weren't. I guess it's still a strong possibility that they have been together the entire time and are just super cautious of the fact that no one can predict the future and literally any couple could break up, but a consistent 10 year relationship seems, to me at least, too stable of a thing to still be dedicatedly doubtful of.

Idk this is just wild speculation on my part, but I could read it as them not wanting to publicly commit to a current relationship status because it has changed in the past and they don't want to say for sure that it won't again. Even though they probably are together and, regardless, will surely always be in each other's lives no matter what form their relationship takes.

It seems pretty clear to me that

"I know lots of people these days, thanks to social media, want to share and monetize every aspect of their life. And then, as soon as something changes, suddenly it’s this huge drama because everybody got invested in the story of your life like it’s a soap opera. I don’t want that."

is talking about how other YouTubers make their relationship very public and very much a part of their branding and the entertainment they're selling, and that leads to Drama and breakup videos and all of that. While it's not impossible that their relationship status has undergone some change at some point, here Dan seems to be very specifically comparing how other YouTubers produce relationship-based content to what he and Phil want for how their relationship works with their position in the public eye.

I mean, yeah, he is talking about that, but as he jumps from talking about his and Phil's relationship to "as soon as something changes, suddenly it's this huge drama", and then alludes a second time to not wanting public scrutiny in a time of change by saying he doesn't want to post a statement if he fucks something up... I guess it's possible he is just serving us a swerve ball because he didn't switch subject matters clearly enough, and maybe I'm reading into it too much, but closely linking two topics may denote meaning between them.

I found some parts of the structure confusing, but that bit seemed pretty clear (sorry if I'm repeating myself). They're private people, they're not interested in monetizing their relationship and making it into a soap opera like some YouTuber couples. They want to do some things without an audience.

Then it does get murkier because it seems to me that he's trying to transition out of talking about their relationship and draw focus back to himself and his journey. He wants to take risks and do things without scrutiny. I guess I don't see the argument that he's talking about his relationship with Phil in that bit at all? Like I don't think he's saying he wants to enjoy fucking up his relationship without judgment, that would be pretty fucked up. I think he's broadening the category of things he wants to do without an audience out (not just relationship stuff). And he invites us not to feel entitled to info about any of that (relationship or risks he wants to take on his own). And then he goes back into sex/sexuality being a personal thing and why people might be closeted and how outing them sucks.

That's my read. I just don't see any indication in there of breaks or open periods in the relationship.

I wasn't implying that Dan was talking about his relationship when he said he wants to enjoy fucking things up lol, that would be fucked up. Ofc he is opening up to different themes in this whole paragraph and addressing his personal distance from that style of youtube which has become so especially popular now. My theory was that merely the leap he made to drama scenarios of things in the public eye changing from his and Phil's relationship and desired privacy might indicate something. But yeah this is just me theorising on absolutely nothing concrete so agree to disagree

[Kurapika]

I would join Phil and not go to the GGGG *cough* I mean, LGBT Pride March if I had the choice. I really dislike the social movements lately

Phil's lack of comment on these issues (not only regarding today, he has always been like that) is also one of the things that drove me away from D&P. None of them have any obligation to constantly talk about serious stuff like this, but I found out I was at a period of my life when I no longer felt that much pleasure being a huge fan of people just because. But again, that's me That might be your case as well phanfckingtastic, and we're not gonna get what we want from D&P or IDB, unfortunately

[000dia000]

I mean you have a right to an opinion, but everyone on the forum has a right to disagree with that opinion, so

Phil (and Dan also) is a flawed human being. He isn't a spokesperson, never has been, probably never will be. Phil has always been complacent. Him coming out doesn't magically do a 180 on his personality and turn him into a queer activist. He's honestly just like most white gay cis men who can skirt by doing the most bare minimum.

However, I think the last couple of pages has really underscored a major problem people have about placing celebrities on pedestals. You can be proud of someone you admire spreading a good message, and providing a safe space like Phil has, but please for the love of God stop trying to hold them to a God-like standard. I mean, even most "activism" by tweeting or doing hashtags isn't as progressive as people think it is. Ultimately you're all in a bubble of followers on social media with similar beliefs to you, and the kind of ignorant, homophobic people you think are getting influenced don't actually see it because they're too busy wanking away in their Facebook groups or on reddit.

The one thing Phil has done so far was make a video, announcing his sexuality, and despite being "low-key" (pre-announced and much shorter than Dans) it was still very loud and in-your-face. Yes, Phil could have tweeted something basic, but his video was probably the biggest support he could give because he was actually making himself visible as a gay man.

Anyways, if people are annoyed by the bare minimum, literally just unstan. Watch Tyler Oakley or someone, idk.

[jhamba]

I mean you have a right to an opinion, but everyone on the forum has a right to disagree with that opinion, so

Phil (and Dan also) is a flawed human being. He isn't a spokesperson, never has been, probably never will be. Phil has always been complacent. Him coming out doesn't magically do a 180 on his personality and turn him into a queer activist. He's honestly just like most white gay cis men who can skirt by doing the most bare minimum.

However, I think the last couple of pages has really underscored a major problem people have about placing celebrities on pedestals. You can be proud of someone you admire spreading a good message, and providing a safe space like Phil has, but please for the love of God stop trying to hold them to a God-like standard. I mean, even most "activism" by tweeting or doing hashtags isn't as progressive as people think it is. Ultimately you're all in a bubble of followers on social media with similar beliefs to you, and the kind of ignorant, homophobic people you think are getting influenced don't actually see it because they're too busy wanking away in their Facebook groups or on reddit.

The one thing Phil has done so far was make a video, announcing his sexuality, and despite being "low-key" (pre-announced and much shorter than Dans) it was still very loud and in-your-face. Yes, Phil could have tweeted something basic, but his video was probably the biggest support he could give because he was actually making himself visible as a gay man.

Anyways, if people are annoyed by the bare minimum, literally just unstan. Watch Tyler Oakley or someone, idk.

+1

[citizen_erased]

Dunno if anyone else is ready to move on to talking about bread again, but

Phil's IG story reminded me of a liveshow where he said romantic compatibility should be determined by the type of Haribo a person likes. Apparently there's 'gummy' haribo and 'foamy' haribo, both of which come in a Starmix Haribo bag. So if you find a partner who likes the type that you don't, you're basically soulmates because you can eat the whole bag of Haribo without fighting.

Now, we know Dan and Phil are compatible from Dan's perspective, but what about Phil's? Which kind of Haribo does Dan prefer?

2013 liveshow timestamp for fun

DID SOMEONE SAY BREAD?

how about japanese bread?







also, can any haribo lovers confirm the gummy vs foamy haribo? i googled starmix and there seem to be multiple different types, and they all seem to only have "gummy" snacks, except this one that has eggs that maybe are "foamy"??

That's some cute bear bread.

Having thought about it, and not actually knowing what foamy Haribo is, I think Dan and Phil must both prefer the gummy. What are they if not people who fight over the whole bag of Haribo?

First of all: I love how Japanese bread looks, I do not love how it tastes. I had to eat it for half a year and when I came back to Europe I almost cried over how I much I missed the good bread here

And I don't think they get much of a chance to fight over Haribo because, judging by whenever they used candy in a video ever, Phil just eats it all before Dan ever knows it's even there.

[GalaxyDarling]

TANGENT

Dan inspires me as a foreign guy to speak proper English like himself. I love how he spoke here! Winnie the Pooh would be proud.

[Omgsonew]

First of all: I love how Japanese bread looks, I do not love how it tastes. I had to eat it for half a year and when I came back to Europe I almost cried over how I much I missed the good bread here

Japan's melon bread tho

[knq]

TANGENT

Dan inspires me as a foreign guy to speak proper English like himself. I love how he spoke here! Winnie the Pooh would be proud.

“Oh dear”

[citizen_erased]

TANGENT

Dan inspires me as a foreign guy to speak proper English like himself. I love how he spoke here! Winnie the Pooh would be proud.

“Oh dear”

(I want joint content back, at this point I barely even care about them being gay, let alone who does what kind of activism, I just want to actually see them again )

First of all: I love how Japanese bread looks, I do not love how it tastes. I had to eat it for half a year and when I came back to Europe I almost cried over how I much I missed the good bread here

Japan's melon bread tho

no.

To be fair that was my own fault for expecting melon bread to *taste* like melon, which it doesn't.

[noodlebum]

How does Japanese bread taste in comparison to European? I agree it looks really good, so now I'm sad it's potentially gross haha

[flarequake]

And I don't think they get much of a chance to fight over Haribo because, judging by whenever they used candy in a video ever, Phil just eats it all before Dan ever knows it's even there.

reminded of Dan’s “I’ve had one” when Phil brought out the last macaroon in the “why is there a single biscuit on the table?” gaming video . Btw, the back of the heart-shaped one in Haribo Starmix is also white foam. That one’s my favourite.

[Omgsonew]

no.

To be fair that was my own fault for expecting melon bread to *taste* like melon, which it doesn't.

!!!!!!! Man your tastebuds are wack, my condolences lol

How does Japanese bread taste in comparison to European? I agree it looks really good, so now I'm sad it's potentially gross haha

It's kinda sweeter

[citizen_erased]

no.

To be fair that was my own fault for expecting melon bread to *taste* like melon, which it doesn't.

!!!!!!! Man your tastebuds are wack, my condolences lol

How does Japanese bread taste in comparison to European? I agree it looks really good, so now I'm sad it's potentially gross haha

It's kinda sweeter

thanks

and in my experience it's a LOT sweeter than european bread, at least speaking as someone who's used to fairly dark (? like super wholegrain) dutch bread. It's ALL white and very sweet in japan. I just switched to eating rice at some point, so really it was all fine, but I did really miss bread.

To keep it sliiiightly on topic: I think phil probably loves japanese bread. so if he started a bread restaurant that'd work great for him. just. not for me

[Ataraxia25]

I mean you have a right to an opinion, but everyone on the forum has a right to disagree with that opinion, so

Phil (and Dan also) is a flawed human being. He isn't a spokesperson, never has been, probably never will be. Phil has always been complacent. Him coming out doesn't magically do a 180 on his personality and turn him into a queer activist. He's honestly just like most white gay cis men who can skirt by doing the most bare minimum.

However, I think the last couple of pages has really underscored a major problem people have about placing celebrities on pedestals. You can be proud of someone you admire spreading a good message, and providing a safe space like Phil has, but please for the love of God stop trying to hold them to a God-like standard. I mean, even most "activism" by tweeting or doing hashtags isn't as progressive as people think it is. Ultimately you're all in a bubble of followers on social media with similar beliefs to you, and the kind of ignorant, homophobic people you think are getting influenced don't actually see it because they're too busy wanking away in their Facebook groups or on reddit.

The one thing Phil has done so far was make a video, announcing his sexuality, and despite being "low-key" (pre-announced and much shorter than Dans) it was still very loud and in-your-face. Yes, Phil could have tweeted something basic, but his video was probably the biggest support he could give because he was actually making himself visible as a gay man.

Anyways, if people are annoyed by the bare minimum, literally just unstan. Watch Tyler Oakley or someone, idk.

+10000000000

[i look like a pencil]

Cool, if it means nothing then let’s just never do anything, especially nothing to ever disturb sweet baby angel phil who apparently everybody knows saves the world in many areas in his spare time, and have celebrities constantly share about clothes and food and animals on social media, but nothing else, ever. That’s great. Fuck the metoo movement, fuck blm, fuck years of insistence and public pressure for marriage equality. We’re fine. How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019. I forgot normal rules never apply to magical deities dan and phil.
You don’t understand how it’s important that people of a group who are better off stand up for the less privileged of that group? Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
I stg it’s almost creepy how dan and phil get away with anything here. (Except droughts. Those are unforgivable.)
Anyway, I’ve said all I had to say. Time to go back to the real world.

I empathise with your frustration so much. In the past, I've also been angry and bitter at privileged celebrities wasting their platforms to do good in the world even at a super basic level.

As you seem to be very goal-oriented and nothing anyone's countered you with regarding ethics/philosophy has affected your opinions, please at least hear this: being tough on queer people and demanding more from them than they give SCARES other queer people from even trying or coming out in the first place. No one wants that kind of pressure and scrutiny; to be thrust into the role of an activist and an ambassador just because of what you are, and then be heavily criticised from a million new angles where people link your failures as an individual to why homophobia exists and people are suffering.

Objectively, yes, battles don't get won if no one fights. Shying away from activism is personally something I don't really like in another person, even if I recognise the unfairness of the situation and their inherent right to not engage with it. But I believe you are doing more harm for your cause than good by spreading the feeling that pride is something you have to do RIGHT. From a moral standpoint, I disagree with placing the responsibility entirely on the shoulders of the oppressed, but if you won't listen to such reasoning, then my standpoint as someone like you who wants practical effect in the world is that you catch more flies with honey.

This is why it’s impossible to have a discussion here.
I never said what he had to say or do. Just a simple gesture of acknowledgment. A tweet, a photo, 10 mins at the parade bar, an ig story of a flag. A tweet today, vague and just saying he didn’t go? Yes, I’m very unimpressed.

BUT

My demands, for the 100th time, are from phil. Not all queer people, not each forum user, not your lesbian grandma. I do personally believe we all as people (and LGTBQ+) ought to help those less privileged as much as we can. Again, if you’re safe and out, in case of us queers. I mainly talked about phil, who is barely owning up to the symbolic responsibility that comes with being in the single digits percentage of peoole of certain privilege in the whole fucking wide world. That’s all.

That’s not doing “more harm”, that’s being an adult and telling it like it is.

Not everything you read or hear is secretly about you. Not every comment on dan and phil is about you (collective you), either.
And even if it indirectly touched anybody reading this in any way, it’s on the reader, not on me.
I’ve been clear and I’m understanding of people’s circumstances. I would’ve respected it more if phil had tweeted “I wasn’t able to go”, for instance. Even without further explanation.
I’m not so understanding of the need to jump to the defense of a highly privileged man against valid criticism like I’m punching a baby in the face.

Would a tweet, a photo or 10 minutes at the parade really have changed anything? I think there would always be someone saying that he hasn't done enough, whether he does something or not.

I understand where you're coming from, even if I don't agree with you, I really do. Phil's silence on basically anything but his opinion on food and drinks can be really frustrating. But in my opinion Pride is a different thing. I consider it a celebration and something really personal and while I was sad about Phil not going, I also believe that everyone is different and gets to decide whether to go to Pride or not, for whatever reason they might have. And as others have already said, I would argue that posting a coming out video is a pretty big deal in terms of celebrating queerness.

[socksparadox]

I think the entirety of the phandom would prefer if Phil were more vocal about important social issues. Of course a tweet or an instastory or something would have been nice from Phil, but I don't think the fact that he didn't post inherently cancels out everything else they've done for the community. Just because someone isn't a vocal, public activist doesn't mean they don't support the community in other ways.

Kinda unrelated, but I also think it's important to consider the unspoken things that they've both done for the community - even before they were out. Their core fanbase has been predominantly LGBTQ almost their entire careers. Even just through the magic of a common interest, they've brought so many LGBTQ people together online and given so many LGBTQ people a safe space online that they may have not had in their real lives. Although they didn't directly do anything for that to happen, they've always given their audience a kind and accepting environment, which has been honestly life-changing for me and so many other LGBTQ people. Speaking just for myself, if I hadn't grown up with the community Dan, Phil, and the phandom created together, I wouldn't be anywhere near as comfortable with my identity as I am.

[madzilla84]

So Vidcon week is finally upon us ... any predictions? (Not that it's really possible to predict anything any more where these two are concerned lmao) I know D&P aren't making any joint appearances except VidConNow (which I don't expect to be substantial, but since it'll be their first appearance together this year it's kinda a big deal even if it's like 10 seconds), and the Meet & Greet, but even so, I'm really hoping we get some kind of hint about the future.

Confirmed stuff (in PST timezone):

Thu July 11, 2:30 - 3:30: Tackling Mental Health Online (panel - Dan)
Fri July 12, 4:00 - 5:00: AmazingPhil Q&A
Sat July 13, morning: Meet & Greet
Sat July 13, 5:30 - 8:00: The 3rd Annual Night of Awesome (Dan doing ... something)

The rest of the time I'm guessing we might see them popping up in other Youtubers' content/instas/tweets etc, as well as their own. Hopefully. (Anyone else a bit nervous?)

[sapienveneficus]

I was just hoping that the parade day would sort of mark the return of Dan and Phil. But apart from the fact that they both posted a coming out video (which I don't want to take away from!), we're back to the odd tweet or Instagram story. Would love to hear what their YouTube-related plans are.

I was hoping so too. I wasn't thinking Phil would go to pride for political reasons (that's never been his thing), I figured he'd go to support Dan, since going to London Pride was so important to Dan this year. Them being there would have been a great way to test the waters of being in public together (post coming out videos) before VidCon. I also was thinking they'd do a liveshow today sharing what Pride was like. Ah well, none of that happened.

You bring up such a valid point in terms of their content. We did have those two amazing coming out videos (which I loved and don't want to diminish either) but other than that, nothing has changed for them on YouTube. At this point, I've got to assume they'll be announcing their plans for the rest of the year at or around VidCon, right? I mean, it's July, the 7th month of the hiatus. How long do they think they can keep this up?

If I'm allowed a teensy bit of cynicism, Phil was able to ride the wave of his coming out video to sell his new space themed merch, but if he (and Dan) want to keep selling merch and making money on YouTube, they're going to have to return with joint content. And the whole money thing is still something I wonder about. (I'm nosy, I know, it's a problem). They've taken a massive cut to their revenue stream this year by eliminating gaming videos and liveshows. I know they've done well in the past, but it doesn't seem as though their current approach to YouTube (or content creation in general) is sustainable (from a business perspective). So, yeah, I really do want to know what's next.

[fieldoflovers]

I think everyone's already said what's needed to be said on Phil and pride but I will just add that I don't think you can really gauge someone's morals based on visible activism.

Boris Johnson also tweeted about pride and tweeted a picture of a time he marched, it doesn't change the fact that he is a raging homophobe and has only hurt the community. We live in a world where politicians and public figures want to be seen at pride more to show off that they're a good supportive person, and not to actually understand the current issues that lgbt people face or to help anybody but their own public image. If in this world, Phil doesn't go to pride, that's understandable.

As a fan though, I think demanding stuff from creators is shitty but I do think you can be disappointed. You're entitled to your feelings towards actions they take and those they don't. If more things start disappointing you than making you happy however, maybe step back from fandom because I know not being happy/excited when everyone else is can be draining. Hopefully, they'll do something better that'll make you happier next.

I personally am very disappointed that there's no liveshows, boys I love you both but I really really really want one, they can be solo and glitch the entire time and you can only talk about candy and sell me merch and I'll take it. Please. It doesn't even have to be an hour. 20 minutes on the awful rize app. Please.

Also haven't been on here for a while and it's nice to be back, hope y'all are having a good summer!

[alittledizzy]

[Ataraxia25]

Well, freaking finally.

[obsessivelymoody]

Yay! Finally we can stop waiting on the edge of our seats! I know it's probably only going to be a 90 second bit, but I'm excited to see Dan on the news

[flarequake]

Ah, see, they probably planned to actually tell us the actual day, had a photo prepared and everything (cos we can totally read minds that there’d be definite info after the original ig story). Good that it’ll be online too, saves us screen-recording. Good photo