Dan & Phil Part 88: orbit of uranus

[autumnhearth]

New pic?

^ Now *those* look like lilac shorts! Perhaps he didn’t want to wear them as a set.

^ For once I agree with his taste, that man is beautiful (seriously google him)

I also approve of this:

Odd that they are so active on social media this evening.

[Omgsonew]

So are they in the desert again? Or is this just old material? Also, if they are at the Vegas strip, did they split off from Martyn and Cornelia?

Irrelevant rant under here...

Idk if this is a controversial thing, but i kind of annoys me how people thinks it's so funny to joke about Dan's sexuality. Some jokes are in good humor, but like today people were saying how gay he looked in the car-pushing video, and how other people must perceive him as gay.
This just seems like needless stereotyping.
Also when people joke about him not being attracted to women, I can't help but be like,,,, did he actually say that? Or are y'all just making assumptions? Like yes I know that he identifies as gay. I don't mean to imply otherwise. But based on his actual coming out video, I'm p sure that does not mean that he never has been and definitely never will be attracted to a woman/ someone not male. Idk why people take so much glee in implying that he's actually repulsed by women lol.

I find that that's quite a Thing when it comes to gay men; people who seem a little too excited joking about how disgusted they are by girls and want nothing to do with them. It's so weird especially since most of the people joking ARE girls, and I guess it might come down to them just not understanding how gay men work and maybe some internalised misogyny, but I have no idea why they're so into the idea. Maybe it's the 'I'm not like other girls' issue of not knowing how to celebrate something (in this case, gayness) without putting something else down (women).

[PolarFox]

Dan just lowered his larynx for the first words he said. He is really skilled at modulating his voice, and I think a better singer than he would consider himself to be. He has a massive vocal range.

This is my chance to bring back one of my favorite posts on this forum--from the discussion right after "The Internet is Here" came out. It agrees with the above with loads of interesting detail!

I went off on one yesterday and did a whole musical analysis of their song and BiShoe said I should put my thoughts here so they're under the spoiler! I study music and have been training in various styles of singing for 12 years, so them releasing a song gave me an indescribable amount of joy. Honestly, I was having the time of my life; musical analysis and deppy at the same time makes my nerdy heart soar.

OKAY, buckle in friends; this is going to be a long one. First thing's first, I want to say that I'm incredibly impressed. I made a post about their singing last year on the website that shall not be named; I watched about a million videos of them singing for it and I have to say, they've come on LEAPS AND BOUNDS in a very short space of time and they should really be proud of themselves. Can't think who mentioned it now (sorry friend), but the Phantom of the Opera video is a great comparison point. It still sounds good but you can hear the improvement:



Dan has previously relied on his highest register in most of the available examples of them singing (known as falsetto). The only time I can think of where he didn't is this video:



He once said in a liveshow that he sings in his falsetto because he isn't a great singer, so I think he uses it as a coping mechanism. You can hear his lack of confidence in the banana clip, and he goes up to his falsetto at the end anyway. He's done really well to get out of the habit of doing it.

He also said in that liveshow that his voice was very "gappy", and that some areas of it sounded horrible. THAT'S TOTALLY A THING, everyone has that, even professional singers. It's known as the passaggio, and it's just a few notes in between each register that don't sound as nice as the rest of the voice. If you've ever heard people talk about head voice (high) and chest voice (low) the passaggio is the gaps inbetween those sections of the voice, so like: lowest voice --> few dodgy notes --> middle voice --> few dodgy notes --> high voice --> few dodgy notes --> falsetto.

It takes YEARS to fix it. It's been 12 years and mine is still hanging around. The range of the melody in 'The Internet Is Here' is actually quite big, so it would have been impossible to not have parts where their singing is weaker. It's almost 2 octaves, here's an audio representation of what that means:



I think Phil is the main victim of that here. Phil has a low voice type (baritone or bass) and the song is written for a high voice type (tenor). The order goes, from high to low:

Counter Tenor (sings falsetto)
Tenor (most low-voiced pop music, except Hozier lol)
Baritone
Bass
Contra-bass (very low and rare)

The song is bam smack in the tenor range, with Phil's solo at the beginning starting right at the bottom of it:


(he starts on the second yellow piano key on the left, and ends on the second black piano key to the right of the dot in the middle)

The song starts in a different key to the majority of it, because Phil's voice is lower than Dan's and it's his solo. (For anyone who cares, it starts in G major, Phil's solo finishes on V/the dominant, "sing it with a friend" (0:36), and then there's a small jazzy section on the dominant before they move up a semitone into Eb major; a move that I will ALWAYS associate with Westlife when they get up of their stools and the key changes. Anyone know what I'm talking about?)

#spon but I worked out the chords for the first half of the song on the piano and there's some really fun jazzy ones in there!

Also #spon2themax but you should totally follow me and also go 2 my youtube because I sing there and I don't know if you can tell but I love everything about singing

But yeah, Phil is the passaggio victim of it being put in a tenor range. Most musical theatre numbers for low voices are in a tenor range so it might have been a thematic decision, or perhaps Dan might have struggled with his lower register? It's a strange choice but I think they would have had the same struggles in any key because of the song having a fairly wide range and them not having a lot of time to polish it (like I said, it takes years to hone!). Now let's go on a journey where we listen to Phil's passaggio!



He goes flat where he struggles. Some examples: (0:15) "brighten up my day" - day is flat, (0:27) "how the show should end" - how is flat, (0:36) "sing it with a friend - friend is flat.

On "day"; can you hear that the sound is a bit strangled because he's stuck between his chest voice (low) and his head voice (high). What he should do is imagine he has to sit on the note from above rather than attack it from below, but I can literally hear his brain thinking "now is when I go high!" To be fair it is a run upwards so that's natural unless you do a lot of practice to kill the instinct; you can hear how much his voice wants to resonate in his forehead but he panics.

A noticeable one is when both he and Dan sing "when you've got lots of followers" - the fol in followers is FLAT (1:44), and it's especially noticeable because Dan isn't. He does it again the second time, and the third time but it's a lot better, and then his whole end run is a bit dodgy. NO SHAME though, he still sounds great and lord knows I'm pitchy af too after 12 years hahaha. I do want to reiterate that they've done an amazing job, but that doesn't stop my songstress ass analysing their voices. I quite like that it's a bit off tbh, and someone was going to have to sing some notes that they struggled with. Phil took one for the team.

They could both do with work on their support and breath control (same). Support is supporting the sound with mainly your diaphragm/stomach and various other body parts, and breath control is how long you can sustain a note/melody. The better your support, the better your breath control (breath control also includes how to breathe properly/when to breathe). That being said, Dan definitely has a cold affecting his singing; he takes a breath before "me" (1:15) and he didn't do that in the show.

I thought that having Dan sing the lower part and Phil sing the higher part at the end was an interesting choice and a stroke of genius tbh (now a Jimmy Jewell stan), because Dan's voice is higher than Phil's, but I suspect that Phil would be nervous about the harmony/more confident singing the tune. A good example of Dan naturally gravitating higher is this (1:15) (oh hey, Dan's falsetto):



(OT, but I find that singing moment so fascinating because they lose confidence but they didn't even make a mistake!)

ALSO a thing that's really making me laugh is how they pronounce their t's! They're so heavy; I reckon they learned it like that because it had to be audible in a theatre (someone said something a few pages ago about having to over-exaggerate your movements to make them visible to the audience and you also have to do it with speaking and singing). It's not right for a studio recording, but it's cute. Their pronunciation in general is really good, I didn't miss a single word! I find Phil's sliding issue interesting because his solution is to almost bite the sound away and shorten it, if that makes sense? It's noticeable at points but he did a great job of not going to either extreme the majority of the time.

I said it in the post on the website that shall not be named and I'll say it again: they both have really lovely, colourful, warm voices. Dan also has a MASSIVE range, which is probably why he notices so many gaps (not sure what it is, but it's big). If they wanted to, I'm sure they could be really skilled singers. I want Phil to be a bass in a choir, because his bass section is delicious. Imagine him singing this, I think I'd melt:



Dan could be anything from a counter tenor to a baritone, but he should be a counter tenor because there aren't many about. Example of a counter tenor here:



Goddd, It sends tingles all through my body, such a haunting voice type. Mmm.

Both of those dreams of mine would mean they'd have to train classically (there are a few classical styles, but the only one I know about is bel canto, meaning beautiful song in Italian. I think it's the most common classical type?? but I'm unsure so don't quote me on that). Deppy are doing a thing called belt singing which is a really common musical theatre style (think Carrie Hope Fletcher). The main difference between the two, other than the style, is that belt singing is about trying to sing all through the range in your chest voice, whereas bel canto is about changing technique in different sections of the voice (chest voice = low, head voice = high) and learning to do it smoothly. They're both hard techniques to master; singing is a lot harder than it looks.

ANYWAY, that's my analysis, woo! If anyone has any questions feel free to shoot them my way! I never know the balance between under and over explaining things so I'm sorry if this either made no sense to you or was super obvious information. I've gone over everything to check it but I might be wrong in places, so apologies for any inconsistencies!! I hope y'all have a gr8 day.

(Post and surrounding discussion can be found here.)

Sorry to bring this up from previous page but!!! This is such a good post, thank you for writing it their voices are so warm and colourful and I would give up a kidney for them dabbing some more into music and singing. I really feel that “going higher” thing, I have struggled with that through all my 8 years of singing classes which this post also made me miss, same with a choir... Though I genuinely don’t think I learned about the chest vs head voice, I’ve been trained to approach everything in the same way, from the head, even as an alto in the choir. Hmmm. Must have been trained theatrically then.

I also really admire them singing while doing their dance on the stage tbh, when I did theatre I found it a bit straining to keep my technique while dancing around and I had trained for half a decade by then. Are deppy gods or something? Likely. Screw podcast, DAPMusic when.

Ah yes, the podcast. I had it on background while playing Zelda and yknow what, it wasn’t that bad. Could deppy make me listen to their podcast? Probably. What a world we living in.

Speaking of world, I am absolutely living through their holiday instagram posts. Getting to see that beautiful scenery *cough cough Phil cough cough* without having to spend money or leave my bed? Yasssss

plus on the topic of gay jokes, i find them funny, but they gotta be made by queer ppl themselves because in that case it’s kind of like “lmao that me also” kind of making fun/projecting. Or at least that’s how I do it, I make obscene amount of queer jokes around my queer friends... though yes most of the jokes about gay men being repulsed by women are stale and usually not that funny.

Also last minute addition to this post behemoth, leave it to Dan the fellow furry to make my mind wonder what the heck does he search up on furaffinity... but yes I fully agree with his opinion that these are terrifying. Maybe inviting furry artists into these live action anthro movies could prevent these disasters. Oof.

[livoy]

Wow they've met a lot of fans. I realize Vegas is populated, but so is London. Are Londoners just less likely to approach them and request a photo? Do they just genuinely not go outside?

I would say they're just more likely to run into fans in Vegas considering its July so more people are on holiday and generally just out and about. I'd say for London they probably travel more often in Ubers now (I think they can afford not to use the tube) as well lack of going outside haha.

this exact reasoning was why i was so shocked dan never was spotted during his marathon training. some of the runs you do are ridiculously long and he indicated it took him all over London. i’m definitely glad for his sake (and his safety & security) that he was able to do so in a chill, under the radar way but i still am a little surprised he was never once spotted (not even a speculative sighting tweet! eg “did i just see dan howell RUNNING?? can’t be” ..just folks discovering his london marathon registration.) makes me wonder if he goes totally stealth mode.

This is v true, I can only hazard a guess that he would go super early or late, with a cheeky hat or something. Maybe general hiatus time also meant he was a bit more under the radar. Idk I can't really figure out their level of fame, in YouTube terms it is huge but I don't know how that translates to their day-to-day lives.

[spaceguitar]

Thanks guys for the considerate responses.
Someone tell me why I die laughing everytime I read the phrase 'dicked down in the desert'

[sparkle]

Thanks guys for the considerate responses.
Someone tell me why I die laughing everytime I read the phrase 'dicked down in the desert'

this post coming out universe is 50% collective fever dream

[hintatty]

Wow they've met a lot of fans. I realize Vegas is populated, but so is London. Are Londoners just less likely to approach them and request a photo? Do they just genuinely not go outside?

I would say they're just more likely to run into fans in Vegas considering its July so more people are on holiday and generally just out and about. I'd say for London they probably travel more often in Ubers now (I think they can afford not to use the tube) as well lack of going outside haha.

this exact reasoning was why i was so shocked dan never was spotted during his marathon training. some of the runs you do are ridiculously long and he indicated it took him all over London. i’m definitely glad for his sake (and his safety & security) that he was able to do so in a chill, under the radar way but i still am a little surprised he was never once spotted (not even a speculative sighting tweet! eg “did i just see dan howell RUNNING?? can’t be” ..just folks discovering his london marathon registration.) makes me wonder if he goes totally stealth mode.

This is v true, I can only hazard a guess that he would go super early or late, with a cheeky hat or something. Maybe general hiatus time also meant he was a bit more under the radar. Idk I can't really figure out their level of fame, in YouTube terms it is huge but I don't know how that translates to their day-to-day lives.

you'd be surprised how low key londoners are. i've seen half a dozen celebrities walking down the street, totally unencumbered (youtubers included). also seconding the comment about ubers, there's no real need to use the tube unless you can't get somewhere by car. also every possibility he did training at home on a treadmill sometimes, and like others have said, late at night/early in the morning.

i think also people are conscious they're on holiday, so it's an opportunity to talk to them they wouldn't normally have? most londoners are too busy/not paying attention tot he world around them anyway i've blanked my own friends walking down the street many, many times lol

[GalaxyDarling]

Oh my God at Dan's last Tweets. First, the Vitamin D and something else.... Where in the desert would he find dick... unless...

Cats must be a furry dream for him (though not this particular film)

Also, Ratburn's husband, lol, I would be here for him straightening his hair once more.

[GalaxyDarling]

Though I genuinely don’t think I learned about the chest vs head voice, I’ve been trained to approach everything in the same way, from the head, even as an alto in the choir. Hmmm. Must have been trained theatrically then.

Chest voice is the one that we normally speak with, whereas head voice is like when you eat a hot potato and try to speak with that. I understand the head approach for singing voice, but in mainstream music it's all about the chest voice and the power you get with that. Celiné Dion beats her chest when singing sometimes, for that's where her voice is coming from. Very few male singers in mainstream have been known for their voice (alone).

Dan has a lot of potential. He hit vibrato in head voice when singing Phantom of the Opera. Some of his screams have been insanely high. There is so much he could do (singing, running) but hasn't because he doesn't believe in himself. Though the good part about having YouTube presence like his is that he could upload a singing video at any time ever. A Dan and Phil Music Channel would be awesome!

[Susanisnotafish]

The Right Opinion uploaded a video on coming out videos in general and why Dan's is so important:

Thanks for posting this! It was so insightful! Made me think again about the difference between Dan’s and Phil’s coming out vids. I’m not sure if Phil just gives no f***s about needing to explain his confusing (albeit less confusing than Dan’s) portrayal of his sexuality or if his explanation would have just been “because of Dan” and he didn’t want to say that, but either way I respect both of their videos. Dan’s just made me extra happy because it explained so much. I really admire how he acknowledged that he had been confusing (not that he owed us an explanation, but I did appreciate it). This video was filled with such praise (and not empty flattery, but well-thought out ) from a gay peer (granted with a much smaller platform than Dan)! I hope Dan sees it.

[noodlebum]

I always remember during singing yasuhati, when Phil does an awful tuneless beginning of I write sins not tragedies, and Dan's like 'Phil you can actually sing - what are you doing?!' (or words to that effect). I can't imagine them doing any singing videos except in games/tiny little asides, but it's a nice idea for sure.

[Susanisnotafish]

I was just rewatching this joint live show from a year ago and it is so good!!! Just pointing it out to anyone who hasn’t seen it or wants some joint content feels. https://youtu.be/Gaqo8AUPCKk

[Lobster]

Thanks guys for the considerate responses.
Someone tell me why I die laughing everytime I read the phrase 'dicked down in the desert'

There's something about the alliteration that makes it just... *kisses hand*

[jesp]

Not to overload the main thread with "jesp spends his entire evening doing IDB stuff" posts, but we've got a very important post that we'd like as many people as possible to read.

You can find much more information over in the About This Forum thread but, in short, we're looking for your thoughts on adding a thanks button.

This is something that people have asked for over the years, but the forum culture has changed in that time and we want to be sure that it is still something users want.

Take some time to read through the thread linked above - or use this link right here - and please give us your thoughts!

Quoting for visibility.

[PolarFox]

GalaxyDarling that hot potato analogy is exactly what my teacher taught me haha! I have struggled mostly with singing higher notes even with my voice being higher pitched.

Also did Dan delete the dicked down in the desert? I can’t find the tweet in question anywhere

[Amiaw]

Also did Dan delete the dicked down in the desert? I can’t find the tweet in question anywhere

He didn’t delete it - it’s a reply

[noodlebum]

I always remember during singing yasuhati, when Phil does an awful tuneless beginning of I write sins not tragedies, and Dan's like 'Phil you can actually sing - what are you doing?!' (or words to that effect). I can't imagine them doing any singing videos except in games/tiny little asides, but it's a nice idea for sure.

Just to correct myself because I can't bear to leave it wrong, it was welcome to the black parade not I write sins

Also did Dan delete the dicked down in the desert? I can’t find the tweet in question anywhere

It was in the tumblr post here https://pseudophan.tumblr.com/post/1863 ... d-down-in

[phandemonium]

Also did Dan delete the dicked down in the desert? I can’t find the tweet in question anywhere

He didn’t delete it - it’s a reply

I love this "I unapologetically crave the D" stage of Dan's online existence.

[hintatty]

i'm so wigged out that the first time dan replies to me on twitter it's about furries lmao sigh

[noodlebum]

I love Mr Ratburn having a husband so much btw I miss 90's Nickelodeon, Disney Channel and Cartoon Network

(I'm going to try my hardest to resist searching to see if anyone has photoshopped Dan and Phil into Mr & Mr Ratburn's wedding... the idea both horrifies and amuses me)

[Amiaw]

I haven’t seen any fan pictures from last night which is good for dnp although I still wish there was something but I did see this tweet so it sounds like they were out but just got better at being stealthy

I’m still holding out hope for a good joint picture - not one with dan and phil in the same shot somewhere so I’m counting on Phil to deliver one soon

[GalaxyDarling]

dicked down in the desert

That sounds like a video you would find on RedTube

[thatspecificboob]

The Right Opinion uploaded a video on coming out videos in general and why Dan's is so important:

I hadn't hear of The Right Opinion before so looked at a few of his other videos to get an idea of what to expect from his video about Dan before I watched it. He seems to be someone who shares a lot of controversial and potentially divisive opinions particularly on fellow YouTubers and their various scandals and dramas, so I was a bit worried about what he'd say. Actually, he had nothing but praise for Dan and his video, and seems to have been affected by it on a personal level as well as having admiration for the work of a fellow creator.

Made me think again about the difference between Dan’s and Phil’s coming out vids. I’m not sure if Phil just gives no f***s about needing to explain his confusing (albeit less confusing than Dan’s) portrayal of his sexuality or if his explanation would have just been “because of Dan” and he didn’t want to say that, but either way I respect both of their videos.

As a very new fan, I've been going back and watching a lot of older content, and Phil's references to fancying Sarah Michelle Gellar and casual mentions of past/future/potential girlfriends don't quite go along with the impression Phil gives in his video of being happy and confident in his sexuality once he'd started coming out to people. At the same time, if he wasn't going to talk publicly about being gay then it would have left him in a position of literally never saying a word on the topic of sex and relationships which would have been really difficult, so I get why it was easier for him to handle it the way he did.

[Phantasy]

Wonder if they’re gonna catch any shows in Vegas (too bad Brittany’s on hiatus!)—the fan fiction part of my brain would love to see them get tipsy and see one of those cheesy male strip shows.

[alittledizzy]

Made me think again about the difference between Dan’s and Phil’s coming out vids. I’m not sure if Phil just gives no f***s about needing to explain his confusing (albeit less confusing than Dan’s) portrayal of his sexuality or if his explanation would have just been “because of Dan” and he didn’t want to say that, but either way I respect both of their videos.

As a very new fan, I've been going back and watching a lot of older content, and Phil's references to fancying Sarah Michelle Gellar and casual mentions of past/future/potential girlfriends don't quite go along with the impression Phil gives in his video of being happy and confident in his sexuality once he'd started coming out to people. At the same time, if he wasn't going to talk publicly about being gay then it would have left him in a position of literally never saying a word on the topic of sex and relationships which would have been really difficult, so I get why it was easier for him to handle it the way he did.

I think Phil stopped the timeline of his video before the whole career portion for exactly that reason. It kind of excused himself from having to even step anywhere near what being outed did to/for his career, or Dan, or any of that. I think that he's a confident enough person that now he probably feels protective of the choices he made and not ashamed of staying closeted professionally when it was the best decision for him, but it would be fascinated to hear him address that one day.