Dan & Phil Part 89: So what now?

[firsttimeposter]

Also love he drew a little heart between him and dan because I am trash.

When did he draw that? I never noticed that

[Secretstanner]

Also love he drew a little heart between him and dan because I am trash.

When did he draw that? I never noticed that

Wasn’t that him drawing a heart between him interviewing fall out boy? Dan wasn’t in that drawing

[autumnhearth]

^ That’s what I thought as well, just fanboying.

Also are people still doing timestamps? Some quotes from DML2 would be very helpful in clarifying things said about the future. Making them has always given me a headache, otherwise I’d be on it.

There was some done below under the spoiler, although not so much quotes. I'd like a quote one too.

I really enjoyed this video! I learned a lot of interesting (and personal) things about Phil (and Dan) from it, and I'm so glad to see Phil start to open up about some of the struggles he's experienced in his life, both professionally and personally. There were a lot of announcements about the future in this video, but I find the thing I'm most hopeful for is the success of Project Sphere... Anyway, here are my timestamps:

• [0:30] Phil says the only thing he wishes he could change about his previous “Draw My Life” video is that he wishes he could add “P.S. I was gay!” to it.
• [0:36] The last “Draw My Life” story left off with Dan and Phil moving to London around 2013. A year’s rent in London cost Dan and Phil their entire life savings. If they didn’t make a career online happen, they would be left with no money and some student loan debt.
• [1:04] Thankfully, they got a show on BBC Radio 1. The contents of the show were a lot of fun but also very ambitious.
• [1:40] Phil tells a story about the radio show. In the beginning, Phil was in charge of pressing buttons on the control panel during the radio show. However, he once pressed the wrong button, which resulted in a full minute of dead air. After that, Dan was put in charge of pressing the buttons.
• [2:03] Phil talks about hitting one million subscribers on YouTube. This was the point that Phil decided he was certifiably a full-time internet entertainer.
• [2:40] As the radio show continued to get bigger, Phil says that he and Dan got an agent (presumably at FlipSide).
• [2:48] Not having much money at the time, Phil felt like he should say “yes” to every professional opportunity that came his way. He lists a variety of jobs that he agreed to do: presenting at a film premiere, doing a YouTube spon, doing the Brit Awards, interviewing Ed Sheeran on the red carpet, introducing Imagine Dragons at a festival, doing a week-long outdoor shoot in exchange for “exposure.”
• [3:24] Phil’s anxiety got really bad during this time because he was juggling too much. He was working hard, not getting sleep, and worrying about not getting anything done the next day.
• [3:38] During this time, Phil got a call saying that he needed to come home because of his dad’s health. His dad had a very rare form of blood cancer. He was really sick for over a year, but he was upbeat the whole time. Phil considered dropping everything to come home while his dad was fighting cancer, but his dad convinced him that it would be more helpful for Phil to stay in London and continue working. Because he was put on an experimental drug, Phil’s dad has been in remission for five years (since 2014).
• [4:52] Phil shows a photo of his mom and dad holding hands while walking near a beach.
• [4:56] Dan and Phil realized that all the jobs they were agreeing to do were no longer advancing their careers, and they were doing them out of obligation rather than passion. They also wanted full control over the content they created, and they felt that “the internet” was the future. So they decided to focus on their online/YouTube careers, and they decided to stop doing the radio show and everything else. At this point, they also ditched their old agent at FlipSide (who focused on TV) and got a new team from Above the Fray (who focused on the internet).
• [5:28] To celebrate all things Dan and Phil, Dan and Phil decided to make TABINOF. This also felt like the perfect moment to go on tour, which launched TATINOF. Now, there was no one telling them what to do or change, but this also meant that they had to make every single decision, which came with a whole lot of office work while planning and executing an entire world tour.
• [6:51] TATINOF felt like moving to London had because Dan and Phil put all their savings, even the money from TABINOF into it. Thankfully, ~100,000 people bought tickets and made TATINOF successful, and TABINOF was a #1 bestseller.
• [7:52] Meeting so many people during TATINOF really affected Phil. Hearing the stories of how his videos had brightened up people’s days or gotten people through the hard times or really inspired people that related to his life made Phil realize just how special this YouTube thing he was doing was.
• [8:13] During this time, Dan and Phil had to do some press to promote TABINOF and TATINOF. Phil experienced some “gay fear” during some interviews because he was still closeted publicly and to his extended family. Some reporters just wanted to talk about dating and sexuality, and they wanted to ask about liking girls and “hot female celebrities.” Some reporters were also obsessed with the idea of YouTube as a career.
• [8:55] Phil tells a specific horror story about dealing with the press. During a photoshoot, Phil was made to balance on a disco ball with his legs spread out in tight jeans. The photographer sat on the floor with the camera pointed up towards Phil’s crotch, and they asked Phil to look more sensual.
• [9:20] As an aside, Phil says he’s really enjoying drawing. He draws a seal on wheels. It is magnificent.
• [9:32] Phil talks about starting DanAndPhilGAMES. Dan and Phil wanted it to be something they did on the side, but they quickly realized that it was a lot more work than they had expected because they wanted to edit their gaming videos at the same level as they did their other YouTube videos.
• [10:07] Dan and Phil bit off more than they could chew with Gamingmas. It had them up editing until 4am most nights in December, including on Christmas Eve. However, Phil thinks the Undertale Let’s Play was worth it, and he apologizes to and thanks Dan for editing it (I presume).
• [10:22] Phil says that the TATINOF era of life lasted for two years. After he and Dan got through it, their first priority was moving out of their first London apartment, and then they had to face the question of what would come next.
• [10:39] For Phil, 2017 was a sad and death-heavy year as he lost his grandmother and aunt in the same month.
• [11:04] Phil doesn’t like announcing that he’s working on a secret project that he can’t talk about (and that may never come to be) because he thinks it’s an annoying thing to do. He thinks it’s better to drop an announcement when there’s something interesting going on or when the project is fully ready. However, the downside is that some people don’t understand that it takes a lot of work behind-the-scenes to create the project. Phil says that this made him realize that people only know what’s happening in your life if you’re talking about it online. He sometimes wishes that people knew when he was going through a hard time rather than thinking that nothing is happening. At [12:04], Phil concludes this point saying that there’s more to people’s lives than what they’re posting on social media, and you never really know what someone is going through or working on unless they tell you about it.
• [11:46] To give an example of a secret project that never came to be, Phil tells the story of how he and Dan once spent months planning a Dan and Phil travel series. It was just about ready to go when the people that commissioned it said that their plans had changed, and they would have to wait a year to film it. This clashed with Dan and Phil’s other plans, and they had to let it go.
• [12:16] Two examples of secret projects that have come to fruition are: Truth Bombs and IRL Merch. Truth Bombs apparently originated as a party game that Phil would make his friends play on scraps of paper. For IRL Merch, Dan and Phil felt that YouTuber merch could be so much better than a basic T-shirt, and Phil’s brother Martyn knew everything there was to know about building a website and online shopping. Thus, they banded together to form their first business. Phil is grateful that this business allows him to spend so much time with his brother.
• [13:34] Phil lists two random things that he and Dan did over the past few years: release the 7 Second Challenge app and have cameos in Big Hero 6.
• [13:46] In 2017, Dan and Phil started to think about the rest of their lives/their next big dream. They decided that, before doing anything else, they wanted to tour again to try to visit as many places as they possibly could. Getting into more places was a lot easier this time, but some places still wouldn’t let them in. Phil suspects this may be due to Dan’s face looking suspicious. Regardless, Interactive Introverts was born, and they decided to also revisit the places they had already been because the show was so good.
• [14:51] Phil talks about changing his hair. At the same time he changed his hair, Phil says that he also went and got a pair of ripped jeans as part of his character progression.
• [15:14] With regard to Interactive Introverts, Dan and Phil had some “big issues” getting into Manila. This cost so much that they ended up spending their own money in “Asia” rather than making money.
• [15:27] Dan and Phil were zombies when they got home from Interactive Introverts. Phil thinks they pushed themselves slightly too far with this tour. He felt like he had unlimited energy while on tour, but he crashed once he got home. However, he didn’t exactly rest as he and Dan immediately spent three weeks editing the movie version of Interactive Introverts.
• [16:06] Phil talks about having a poor work-life balance from 2013 through 2018:

  P: So if you’ve been paying attention--Hey! Get back to this tab! Don’t you like my beautiful art?--you might have realized that this chapter of “Draw My Life” has been incredibly work related. Where’s all my fun stories about the things in the rest of my life? Well...turns out I don’t really have one.
  
  P: Obviously, this career has given me so many incredible adventures and experiences I could never have dreamed of, but outside of it, I suddenly realized how lame I am. I prioritized work so much, I stopped making friends. I only have about four in London that actually want to hang out, and I’ve got no real hobbies except for exhaustedly plonking myself in front of a video game after writing emails ‘til 5am. And I didn’t do any normal stuff people would do like getting a house or a dog, for dog’s sake! I think the next project should be to give myself a more well-rounded existence: Project Sphere! The sphere is me! I am the sphere! Do you think there’s a flat sphere conspiracy? I’m sorry.
  
  P: We both realized you don’t need to say “yes” to everything. It’s up to me how much work I want to do in order to secure my future, but there should be a balance, so at the end of the day, you’re still happy. This was like the clouds parting to reveal a new land. I like to think this world was in the jurassic period. “Yee.” For the first time in my life, I felt like I could breathe a bit. I wasn’t afraid of risking everything and having to move back into my parents’ if I failed. No offense, fam. So what next?

• [17:25] At the end of 2018, Dan and Phil wanted to think about what was next for them, and Dan wanted to focus on creating his coming out video. As such, they decided to pause making content for DanAndPhilGAMES.
• [17:40] Phil talks about his current thoughts on the gaming channel as well as what to expect from the next big secret project (outside of YouTube):

  P: The thing is: Most people love DanAndPhilGAMES just for being funny and the couch banter rather than hardcore gaming skills action. So I think if we did feel like having that thing on the side again, maybe it could transform into something new in the future. But on the other hand, I think that final Sims video was definitely a perfect ending if it is.
  
  P: As “Dan and Phil,” we definitely feel like we’ve done every genre of big project we could do together over this five years, apart from maybe a cookbook, where we all know how much of a disaster that would be. So while we love creating together, and we’ll continue to pop up together on YouTube for more classic content, maybe for the next secret big project, it’s time for Philly to think about the big dreams he’s always had.

• [18:18] Phil shows himself filming the video, breaking the customary format of a “Draw My Life” video.
• [18:20] Phil talks about coming out:

  P: But before anything else, there was something I needed to do. I just came out as gay! Which still feels slightly weird to say out load on YouTube. I think meeting my audience made me realize is sometimes sharing personal stuff can help others. So to do that and feel comfortable myself talking publicly about parts of my life going forward, I decided to make a YouTube video about it. This also involved telling some of my extended family beforehand, and this, thankfully, was a very positive experience. But when I read the reaction down in the comments, it really warmed my heart and gave me hope for the future of humanity, so thanks!

• [19:16] Phil says that for the secret project he’s currently working on, “some writing is happening.” However, he doesn’t know yet if what he’s working on will ever become real.
• [19:22] In the meantime, Phil’s still on YouTube, and he’ll keep sharing stories from his weird life and strange mind for as long as people are listening. Even if people stop listening, he might still keep sharing stories as that’s what he was doing when he first started YouTube.
• In the video description, there are links to all three versions of the AmazingPhil Shop, and there is no link to the Dan and Phil shop.

Ah! Thank you, I don’t know how I missed that. And thank you itasca00 for the work you put into it! That actually has the important quotes I was thinking of, so let’s drag it over here.

[noodlebum]

I saw Pewdiepie and Marzia got married today. So are we presuming DnP didn't go ?

[obsessivelymoody]

I saw Pewdiepie and Marzia got married today. So are we presuming DnP didn't go ?

I'm pretty sure they didn't. I don't see why they would go tbh. There's been a definite widening gap between them over the last two years, which I'm quite thankful for. I think we would know if they went anyway.

[alittledizzy]

I saw Pewdiepie and Marzia got married today. So are we presuming DnP didn't go ?

I'm pretty sure they didn't. I don't see why they would go tbh. There's been a definite widening gap between them over the last two years, which I'm quite thankful for. I think we would know if they went anyway.

Phil liked the ig picture (just Marzia's, though) and to be honest if that's the only interaction we get out of them, I'm just... I don't like it but I also don't have the energy to care that much. I don't like it, but we all know Phil isn't one for burning bridges and it's clear that whatever actual friendship they had is DOA.

[greenergrass]

Random thought from phil's video - I wonder if his '4 friends in london' include dan, martyn and cornelia, even though those are technically boyfriend and family. (The 4th person being bryony obviously).

Or does he mean 4 friends in the literal definition of the word, meaning bryony and 3 other friends (or even bryony and dan plus 2 other friends since him and dan could qualify as friends even though they are more than that)

I think 4 friends outside of martyn, cornelia and dan (or even 3 friends outside of martyn, cornelia, and dan) in his city is actually a pretty well-rounded relationship life since that would be 6-7 close relationships in his area.

Thoughts?

What about Adam? Does he live in London? He has joined them for game nights in the last year or two. I definitely don’t think he’s counting Dan and *probably* not Martyn and Cornelia. Though if I didn’t count my partner and siblings I’d have only one local friend, so

yeah, I also think he's not including those 3 in that number.

And I'm coming back to this post, not because I'm trying to be nit-picky about the actual number of friends (was more just curious who the other few friends were; a person's total number of friends obviously isn't an indicator of their quality of life), but more because I want to talk about the "I don't have a life" part of the video.

Look, I liked a lot of the video. I sympathize with Phil for stuff he went through, both what we just learned and what we already knew (sick parent, deaths in the family, closeted relationship, etc). I think his feelings are all valid, and I think he obviously did have struggles and he's allowed to feel how he feels about his life.

But something about him stating he doesn't have a life outside of work, doesn't have any hobbies, just seems... wrong? And I'm not saying someone can be wrong about how they view their own life. I don't really know how to word this right, so I'm sorry if I offend anyone. But what I'm trying to say is that Phil comes off just the slightest bit entitled here. Or something, maybe entitled isn't the right word.

It's just that... he has friends. He has a family that he loves. He has money, more than most, which gives him a safety net and security and so many other things. He goes on vacations. He has creative freedom in his work, has had it for years if/when he wanted it.

And I don't see how he doesn't have 'hobbies'. Maybe I need to watch the video back again. But he plays video games. He enjoys a variety of tv shows (and I think fandoms surrounding some of these). He goes to the cinema. He plays board games with friends. This is just naming a quick few off the top of my head, but those all sound like hobbies to me.

His life sounds a lot more well-rounded than he's making it out to be. And I don't think he's lying to us, I more think he's just sort of focusing more on the negatives in that aspect.

I understand he was busy with work, but lots of people are busy with work (and don't make near as much money from it). I understand he couldn't commit to plans a lot and didn't have much time/energy for making new friends, but that is the case for a shit ton of people and isn't specific to phil's choice of career. I understand that they were slightly financially risky when they started out, but the majority of 20-somethings either are being risky or literally can not afford to try to be risky in the way they were (and the second financial risk with Tatinof is a completely different story, because that was a choice based on what they wanted to do and nothing about what they needed to do, and they were only rewarded this choice because they had the financial means in the first place. But that's a whole other story.)

I know I sound critical here, but really I'm just nitpicking small parts of the video because these things stuck out to me and I want to hear other's thoughts. I'm not trying to diminish how he feels, and I'm not necessarily trying to compare him to other people. I know that people can feel things, and that "so-and-so has it worse so you can't feel sad about the thing" is a stupid argument. That's not what I'm trying to do. I'm more just throwing out some half-baked thoughts about privilege and how different people see things different ways despite or because of the privilege they do or do not have.

[bantsandpheels]

Random thought from phil's video - I wonder if his '4 friends in london' include dan, martyn and cornelia, even though those are technically boyfriend and family. (The 4th person being bryony obviously).

Or does he mean 4 friends in the literal definition of the word, meaning bryony and 3 other friends (or even bryony and dan plus 2 other friends since him and dan could qualify as friends even though they are more than that)

I think 4 friends outside of martyn, cornelia and dan (or even 3 friends outside of martyn, cornelia, and dan) in his city is actually a pretty well-rounded relationship life since that would be 6-7 close relationships in his area.

Thoughts?

What about Adam? Does he live in London? He has joined them for game nights in the last year or two. I definitely don’t think he’s counting Dan and *probably* not Martyn and Cornelia. Though if I didn’t count my partner and siblings I’d have only one local friend, so

yeah, I also think he's not including those 3 in that number.

And I'm coming back to this post, not because I'm trying to be nit-picky about the actual number of friends (was more just curious who the other few friends were; a person's total number of friends obviously isn't an indicator of their quality of life), but more because I want to talk about the "I don't have a life" part of the video.

Look, I liked a lot of the video. I sympathize with Phil for stuff he went through, both what we just learned and what we already knew (sick parent, deaths in the family, closeted relationship, etc). I think his feelings are all valid, and I think he obviously did have struggles and he's allowed to feel how he feels about his life.

But something about him stating he doesn't have a life outside of work, doesn't have any hobbies, just seems... wrong? And I'm not saying someone can be wrong about how they view their own life. I don't really know how to word this right, so I'm sorry if I offend anyone. But what I'm trying to say is that Phil comes off just the slightest bit entitled here. Or something, maybe entitled isn't the right word.

It's just that... he has friends. He has a family that he loves. He has money, more than most, which gives him a safety net and security and so many other things. He goes on vacations. He has creative freedom in his work, has had it for years if/when he wanted it.

And I don't see how he doesn't have 'hobbies'. Maybe I need to watch the video back again. But he plays video games. He enjoys a variety of tv shows (and I think fandoms surrounding some of these). He goes to the cinema. He plays board games with friends. This is just naming a quick few off the top of my head, but those all sound like hobbies to me.

His life sounds a lot more well-rounded than he's making it out to be. And I don't think he's lying to us, I more think he's just sort of focusing more on the negatives in that aspect.

I understand he was busy with work, but lots of people are busy with work (and don't make near as much money from it). I understand he couldn't commit to plans a lot and didn't have much time/energy for making new friends, but that is the case for a shit ton of people and isn't specific to phil's choice of career. I understand that they were slightly financially risky when they started out, but the majority of 20-somethings either are being risky or literally can not afford to try to be risky in the way they were (and the second financial risk with Tatinof is a completely different story, because that was a choice based on what they wanted to do and nothing about what they needed to do, and they were only rewarded this choice because they had the financial means in the first place. But that's a whole other story.)

I know I sound critical here, but really I'm just nitpicking small parts of the video because these things stuck out to me and I want to hear other's thoughts. I'm not trying to diminish how he feels, and I'm not necessarily trying to compare him to other people. I know that people can feel things, and that "so-and-so has it worse so you can't feel sad about the thing" is a stupid argument. That's not what I'm trying to do. I'm more just throwing out some half-baked thoughts about privilege and how different people see things different ways despite or because of the privilege they do or do not have.

I don't have time to say too much, because I'm on the way to work... But just 2 points from a different perspective:

- I don't think "having no life" means you do nothing fun, ever. Phil may have his favourite TV shows, play board games etc. But as long as you're putting in an unhealthy amount of time into work, you feel like you don't have a life. Imagine being tired to your bones and all you want to do is curl up in bed with Netflix or call up some friends... But you can't! You gotta wait 2 weeks because you want/need to get x and y and z done first. Those 2 weeks can be excruciating. Maybe I'm projecting my own experiences, but I can empathise with that way too much
- Just because a person is privileged doesn't mean that are happy. I guess it's human nature to want to strive for a better quality of life

I hope this makes sense

Edit: idk, maybe I should also consider the possibility that I'm speaking from a position of privilege myself?

[Amiaw]

Idk I think Phil is going through the same kind of journey dan is but he’s doing it in his own way. Phil’s internet persona/life has been such a big part of what he was about for the last 12+ years and he probably sees people around him making big life changes and he really hasn’t so he probably just needs some time to figure out who he is.

As for the friend talk all i can say is that I hope DnP have more luck than I do lol. Adulting is the worst when it comes to keeping friendships going and making new ones so sending all the positive thoughts to them.

[madzilla84]

I was a little bit *eyebrow raise* at that part too, because his life as he described it sounds quite a lot like mine (outside work), and then he said he realised ‘how lame he was’ and I was like oh. Thanks Phil.

But I’m sure that’s not how he meant it, and I’m sure he has difficulties as someone who works a) for themselves, b) from home and c) mostly alone that I don’t have... but still. His life, even as it is, sounds pretty great to me, with his long term relationship and big, loving family and job doing what he loves and financial freedom. But he was definitely working too much so maybe it’s a balance thing too.

And also, as I commented on the vid, 4 friends you see regularly in your 30s is actually quite a lot. What a fake introvert lol

[Ataraxia25]

@whatdoiknow

I don't really have a set opinion on what you said, just a quick thought :

You said it was hard to find the right words to use to describe Phil's reaction to his own life (paraphrasing). And i thought : maybe it's not you who can't the right words but maybe Phil himself? Maybe he described his life that way because he couldn't find exactly the words he needed to express exactly what he didn't like about that part of his life. And that makes us kinda confused about what he meant too.

Sorry i'm rambling, i procrastinating going to sleep

[greenergrass]

I don't have time to say too much, because I'm on the way to work... But just 2 points from a different perspective:

- I don't think "having no life" means you do nothing fun, ever. Phil may have his favourite TV shows, play board games etc. But as long as you're putting in an unhealthy amount of time into work, you feel like you don't have a life. Imagine being tired to your bones and all you want to do is curl up in bed with Netflix or call up some friends... But you can't! You gotta wait 2 weeks because you want/need to get x and y and z done first. Those 2 weeks can be excruciating. Maybe I'm projecting my own experiences, but I can empathise with that way too much
- Just because a person is privileged doesn't mean that are happy. I guess it's human nature to want to strive for a better quality of life

I hope this makes sense

Edit: idk, maybe I should also consider the possibility that I'm speaking from a position of privilege myself?

I totally agree with all those points. I just also think Phil maybe doesn't realize just how similar he is to a lot of people around his age in those regards. He mentions at one point something along the lines of not yet getting the chance to do "normal things such as getting a house or a dog" (that isn't a direct quote, but something like that), and while I do think he was sort of using that as a way to let us know those are his next plans, it also came across like those are common things to have before his age. When in reality, it's extremely common for a large proportion of 20-30somethings to not yet have a house and settled life in that aspect.

Idk I think Phil is going through the same kind of journey dan is but he’s doing it in his own way. Phil’s internet persona/life has been such a big part of what he was about for the last 12+ years and he probably sees people around him making big life changes and he really hasn’t so he probably just needs some time to figure out who he is.

As for the friend talk all i can say is that I hope DnP have more luck than I do lol. Adulting is the worst when it comes to keeping friendships going and making new ones so sending all the positive thoughts to them.

yeah, I definitely agree it's about his journey. But also your point that "Adulting is the worst when it comes to keeping friendships going and making new ones" is part of my point too - this is a very common thing, not something specific to phil's career and life path up to this point

I was a little bit *eyebrow raise* at that part too, because his life as he described it sounds quite a lot like mine (outside work), and then he said he realised ‘how lame he was’ and I was like oh. Thanks Phil.

But I’m sure that’s not how he meant it, and I’m sure he has difficulties as someone who works a) for themselves, b) from home and c) mostly alone that I don’t have... but still. His life, even as it is, sounds pretty great to me, with his long term relationship and big, loving family and job doing what he loves and financial freedom. But he was definitely working too much so maybe it’s a balance thing too.

And also, as I commented on the vid, 4 friends you see regularly in your 30s is actually quite a lot. What a fake introvert lol

"because his life as he described it sounds quite a lot like mine (outside work), and then he said he realised ‘how lame he was’" - yeah I think that also is kind of what sat weird with me. I know Phil didn't mean any negativity towards other people's lives, but like I've reiterated, from what we know, his personal life is on par with a lot of people his age. Of course, that's just what we see/know, so I cannot fully judge the full picture and I realize that

@whatdoiknow

I don't really have a set opinion on what you said, just a quick thought :

You said it was hard to find the right words to use to describe Phil's reaction to his own life (paraphrasing). And i thought : maybe it's not you who can't the right words but maybe Phil himself? Maybe he described his life that way because he couldn't find exactly the words he needed to express exactly what he didn't like about that part of his life. And that makes us kinda confused about what he meant too.

Sorry i'm rambling, i procrastinating going to sleep

Yes! That's kind of what I was trying to get across in one of my points. I don't think Phil was lying or exaggerating or anything that like, and all his feelings are valid, but I think some of the things throughout the video were maybe not worded in a way that properly expressed everything. Like, for instance, the part about Tatinof being financially risky - while true, he left out the important context of their privilege of already being fairly financially secure. Like, yes, that was implied, but I'm also not going to feel bad for someone who takes that risk when they don't have to and then fail. Most people can't even dream of financially supporting their own world tour to begin with. Again, I'm being nitpicky, but I think I just would have appreciated Phil acknowledging some of these aspects along the way, for a more balanced story-telling.

[Susanisnotafish]

I wonder if this will lure them back to the Sims? Magical themed Devan wedding anyone?

[anna_begins]

...but I'm also not going to feel bad for someone who takes that risk when they don't have to and then fail.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think Phil was looking for your (or anyone else's) sympathy during this video.

[spaceguitar]

Super interesting conversation about the way that Phil talked about his life + career. I liked to hear a retelling of their story, but what struck me was how much it truly is a 'career'. I think this is why people reacted so negatively when Tabinof and Tatinof were announced- because they were a reminder that D+P were in the Youtube game to make a profit, though I'm sure they had other positive motivations as well, perhaps unlike other Youtubers. Now it's lovely what they've done with their content and how they have expanded it, but would they have expanded it in such a way (2 books + 2 tours) if not to make a profit? Presumably not.
That's where the strangeness of the situation lies, because working hard like that was to make a profit, and not simply to expand D+P's platform + to provide more content. So I am glad that they are now financially stable enough to sit back and think about what content they want to create, and to reconsider their working tendencies. It sounds like it has the potential to be a healthier lifestyle for them. Yet they are privileged to be in the position that they are in now where they can take creative breaks- in the past with the way that they intended for their careers to go, that would not have been possible.

I dont really know what the main point of this ramble was lol

[greenergrass]

...but I'm also not going to feel bad for someone who takes that risk when they don't have to and then fail.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think Phil was looking for your (or anyone else's) sympathy during this video.

I'm not sure how to read your tone here, but yes I agree Phil was not particularly looking for sympathy. I also think putting "all their savings" into one thing and having it work out is great, and that it's great they had the opportunity to do that.

I'm not saying they didn't work hard, and I'm not saying phil's thoughts and feelings aren't valid. I'm just expressing other points of view about things brought up in the video. I know it's not that deep, and there's a million positive things I could talk about, but I don't feel the need to right now since others have already voiced my opinions on those.


(side note - does anyone else always post and then decide to proofread their posts after the fact and make a bunch of edits in a row? lmao bad habit sorry)

[socksparadox]

Phil definitely has more of a life than I'll ever have lmao. But everyone's definition of a fulfilling "life" is different. I think it's impossible for anyone to be completely satisfied with their own life, no matter how privileged they may be.

[knq]

And I'm coming back to this post, not because I'm trying to be nit-picky about the actual number of friends (was more just curious who the other few friends were; a person's total number of friends obviously isn't an indicator of their quality of life), but more because I want to talk about the "I don't have a life" part of the video.

Look, I liked a lot of the video. I sympathize with Phil for stuff he went through, both what we just learned and what we already knew (sick parent, deaths in the family, closeted relationship, etc). I think his feelings are all valid, and I think he obviously did have struggles and he's allowed to feel how he feels about his life.

But something about him stating he doesn't have a life outside of work, doesn't have any hobbies, just seems... wrong? And I'm not saying someone can be wrong about how they view their own life. I don't really know how to word this right, so I'm sorry if I offend anyone. But what I'm trying to say is that Phil comes off just the slightest bit entitled here. Or something, maybe entitled isn't the right word.

It's just that... he has friends. He has a family that he loves. He has money, more than most, which gives him a safety net and security and so many other things. He goes on vacations. He has creative freedom in his work, has had it for years if/when he wanted it.

And I don't see how he doesn't have 'hobbies'. Maybe I need to watch the video back again. But he plays video games. He enjoys a variety of tv shows (and I think fandoms surrounding some of these). He goes to the cinema. He plays board games with friends. This is just naming a quick few off the top of my head, but those all sound like hobbies to me.

His life sounds a lot more well-rounded than he's making it out to be. And I don't think he's lying to us, I more think he's just sort of focusing more on the negatives in that aspect.

I understand he was busy with work, but lots of people are busy with work (and don't make near as much money from it). I understand he couldn't commit to plans a lot and didn't have much time/energy for making new friends, but that is the case for a shit ton of people and isn't specific to phil's choice of career. I understand that they were slightly financially risky when they started out, but the majority of 20-somethings either are being risky or literally can not afford to try to be risky in the way they were (and the second financial risk with Tatinof is a completely different story, because that was a choice based on what they wanted to do and nothing about what they needed to do, and they were only rewarded this choice because they had the financial means in the first place. But that's a whole other story.)

I know I sound critical here, but really I'm just nitpicking small parts of the video because these things stuck out to me and I want to hear other's thoughts. I'm not trying to diminish how he feels, and I'm not necessarily trying to compare him to other people. I know that people can feel things, and that "so-and-so has it worse so you can't feel sad about the thing" is a stupid argument. That's not what I'm trying to do. I'm more just throwing out some half-baked thoughts about privilege and how different people see things different ways despite or because of the privilege they do or do not have.

The "not having a life" segment of DML2 struck me as an interesting and unexpected way for Phil to talk as well. Video games are a hobby. Fandoms and keeping up with tv shows you love and lots of other media centered, nerdy activities are hobbies. I'm curious what Phil was thinking of as a 'real' hobby, and if he maybe had something specific in mind and that's why he wasn't considering things he already enjoys.

As far as getting a house and a dog as 'normal stuff people do,' buying a house isn't the norm for Phil's/our generation generally. But it is the norm for YouTubers with money, and that's most likely Phil's reference group. Dan and Phil are (multi)millionaires, and under those circumstances it probably is outside the norm for them to be renting, especially if they want to buy a house and adopt a pet but can't because of the work schedules they've made for themselves.

I also suspect he slipped that part of the video in to signal what he and Dan will soon be doing in their #private lives more than anything else.

I was a little bit *eyebrow raise* at that part too, because his life as he described it sounds quite a lot like mine (outside work), and then he said he realised ‘how lame he was’ and I was like oh. Thanks Phil.

But I’m sure that’s not how he meant it, and I’m sure he has difficulties as someone who works a) for themselves, b) from home and c) mostly alone that I don’t have... but still. His life, even as it is, sounds pretty great to me, with his long term relationship and big, loving family and job doing what he loves and financial freedom. But he was definitely working too much so maybe it’s a balance thing too.

And also, as I commented on the vid, 4 friends you see regularly in your 30s is actually quite a lot. What a fake introvert lol

I had the same initial response and like you I agree that that isn't how he meant it. I think Phil is just unpracticed at expressing criticisms and negativity out loud. It's something he's chosen to avoid for most of his career.

People are so different, and you or I can be satisfied with an amount of friendships and hobbies that to someone else would feel unfulfilling. I'm guessing that's part of what's going on with Phil. He's mentioned old friends have reached out to him after he came out on YouTube, and I wouldn't be surprised if that brought back some nostalgia and made him realize he wants to keep in touch with those people more than he had been. But because he criticizes concrete, measurable aspects of his life (video game hobby, 4 friends in London, no house, no dog) instead of how he feels about those things or how he'd neglected his own needs, those criticisms are applicable to anyone including people who aren't unhappy with their video gaming, introverted lives and shouldn't be considered 'lame' for it.

That's just my interpretation, but it does make me feel even more proud of Phil for expressing some of his less cheerful experiences and thoughts, as that's especially frightening when you're unpracticed at it.

[Templeofshame]

Mostly I just agree with people, but I think the striking thing to me is the harshness of the "no life" description. If he said he realized that he's overworked and he'd like to have more hobbies, a larger social circle, a house, a dog, etc., it would feel different, just like facts of what he's interested in changing about his life. And I imagine that's what he intended. But in describing it as "no life," it does imply judgment, which I think encourages us to reflect on our own lives and leads to this conversation. Because yeah, these are extremely common things in his age group and ones that he's in a much better position to change than most of us. Although making new friends might have more complications for him as a public figure.

The point about him comparing himself to other millionnaire YouTubers rather than "average" Millennials is a great one; I wonder how much he's even aware of the gap there and how normal his "no life" is. And if he's just getting started on expressing negativity and this time came out a bit harsh, I'll be interested to see where negativity takes him (and I'm not seeing anyone actually offended yet, since he doesn't seem to be coming from a place of trying to judge anyone for having fewer friends or hobbies etc.).

i'm upset about the bigot like but i'm trying not to dwell on it 'cause that only hurts myself

[obsessivelymoody]

Super interesting conversations like these make me thankful for the thanks button! I don't have anything to add, but I'm just silently nodding along and very much enjoying it, and everyone's additions to it.

To be completely off topic and to speak of things that hit differently, this popped back up on my twitter timeline and it made me about a million times more emotional than when they announced it:

[coconut]

i don't think his description of "no life" was meant to pass judgment on other people in the 20s/30s age range but it was meant more as a description of what phil idealized his life to be (along the lines of "when i'm 30 i hope i have a pet corgi and my dream car!") so he just feels "lame" to himself, and he wouldn't think of it that way if it was someone else's life. we are all more critical of ourselves than we are of others, after all.
i think the context of that part of the video, where he's talking about realizing his life dreams in general, is important to note too. to me it felt more like "aw in a perfect world i could've had a bit of a head start on these dreams" not a "wow i'm so lame because i didn't hit xyz milestone lol" kind of thing. ((and re hobbies: taking time off from being in "go mode" to learn more about himself seems to be a big (and healthy) priority for him. it's not that he doesn't have interests already, but he wants to know himself better. or at least that's how i interpret it after seeing people from so many different age groups go through the exact same thing. i loved that he mentioned this tbh.))

[flarequake]

Oh, The Sims magic expansion, the memo to me that they’re winding 4 down ready for 5, though I haven’t been keeping up so maybe not at all, but usually the magic one is the end. It looks amazing, though. They do get better every time. I made some Harry Potter Sims in 3 and the broomsticks were fun seeing them whizzing around everywhere.

Lots of other people work until 5am? Holy frick, I never did and I got stressed enough in various jobs. Phil may have meant no constructive, active or social hobby. Board game night I’d call social, not a personal hobby, if we’re nitpicking, and it doesn’t sound like he had time or energy for anything if he was working and emailing to all hours. As has been said, he’s also probably been comparing himself to people who seem to be more active or social, maybe, and who seemed to be moving past him buying a house and having kids. I vaguely remember the feeling from when I was younger before I thought about it more and tried to stop caring. He may not realise everyone, more or less, is in the same boat and he doesn’t need to think of himself as lame.

Risking their whole savings for Tatinof does sound like a huge deal to me. If they hadn’t used that money, they’d have stayed financially secure, but risking it all isn’t so if they’d lost it, they wouldn’t have had much left to fall back in at that point.

[kavat]

I agree with a lot of you, I think it was a clunky way of saying that he wants more out of his life rather than any judgement on others or being entitled (for lack of a better word). I think it's only healthy to step back every once in a while, see what makes you happy and what doesn't, and what you can do to improve your general well being. For some people that might be to get a less shitty job and for others it might be to buy a house (which is something they've been talking about for years so it's obviously something that's important to them). I got the feeling that their personal life goals have been put on hold because of work and that's not a great feeling for anyone, no matter the circumstances.

As for the financial risk of moving to London and doing Tatinof, I think there's an extra layer of not just being afraid to fail, but to fail in public. They took these risks with millions of eyes on them, and the fall would probably been devastating if it didn't work out. I hate to make the comparison, but I keep thinking about how Chris had to leave London, move back with his parents and get a retail job. That probably would have been tough no matter which field he was trying to succeed in, but I think it made it even more difficult because he was some sort of public figure. Moving to London was a make-it-or-break-it-moment and deppy were lucky enough to make it.

[Birdie]

I mean, being in a stable relationship, having a job I like and 3-4 friends is my definition of a good life too but everyone has different standards. I felt like what Phil meant with having no life was more abstract than that though because I feel like that too a lot even though I have a lot going on. Hot take incoming, but I think it’s a generational thing. I’m a millennial, so is Phil, and I know a lot of people in that age group who feel like they’ve missed out on something or haven’t experienced enough, no matter what they’re doing. There’s probably an explanation for that but I don’t know, it just seems to be a thing.

And I know Phil got to have all those amazing experiences, like actually being famous, going on world tours, travelling a lot and so on and so forth but there’s a dark side to everything and I guess his is not really experiencing his 20s like everyone else. There’s a lot of “normal” stuff we might take for granted he missed out on when his fame grew. I’m totally speculating right now but I think this might actually play into what he meant a lot? He worked his ass off to have the career he has now over the past ca. 10 years so I guess there wasn’t a lot of time to build friendships, like he said in the video, or just do normal “guy in his 20s” stuff at all.

Also, we know he wants to write stuff. Whether that's a TV show or a book, no idea, but he's said quite a few times now that he wants to write and didn't have the time. I'm gonna wildly project here but my hobby is songwriting and when I can't write for a few days or even weeks, I feel horrible because I can't do the thing I truly love due to work or other stuff. If he really wants to be a writer and couldn't because he just didn't have the time to sit down and write that might explain why he feels like he never had time for a real hobby, that hobby being writing? Maybe that's just me but having a creative hobby and not being able to practice it is stressful.

[Puffy]

The other day I discovered that when someone’s net worth is reported, it’s an estimate of all the money they’ve earned over the entirety of their career. So I think Dan is estimated to have a net worth of 2 million.... which translates to 200,000 a year. It’s still a LOT of money, indisputably so, but from Phil’s video it sounds like they didn’t reach that level of financial security until they were in II era. I honestly now genuinely don’t think they’re multimillionaires; I think they’re doing very very well but not as well as we might’ve thought. I thought that might be important in the current discussion.