Dan & Phil Part 92: japhan 2.0

[Amiaw]

My least favorite reasoning on this situation is that because Phil said something it’s communication from both of them. That should have stopped being the case the moment they decided to be separate creators.

I’m not saying Phil’s the best communicator because otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation but just because he said something at vidcon or he made a statement in his DML2 video doesn’t excuse Dan’s absence and it just makes dan look bad in comparison.

They both need to take accountability for this brand they built together and if dan wants to leave the statements to Phil he should tell us that but until then I’m assuming he doesn’t care. It also looks bad when he sells DH merch and leaves it to Phil to spon and also when he sells merch and gets backlash so decides not to make anymore instead of just making content because IRL has the Lester’s and he only needs to show up when it’s convenient. And yes now I’m just saying words - I really don’t care about irl that much but I’m just that unimpressed with things right now.

[alittledizzy]

[flarequake]

It’s funny that there’s so much shadow over Dan’s face in the photo, they’re usually so good at that. Phil’s hair looks amazing (tbh I think it’s just isn’t that great a photo). I don’t think the red jumper’s in my size anymore or I’d consider it, I like the pinker-red in the photo of Cornelia.

[glitterintheair]

I mean that’s such a cute pic but we wouldn’t have seen it if they didn’t want to sell us something. Feels odd that it came out today after the backlash they have received. Probably just a coincidence but oh well, I am skeptical about a lot of things right now, so..

[flarequake]

It was probably already planned and the backlash happened, but their plans continue.

[liola]

Oh the rare sight of a joint selfie paired with a merch spon, with a cute obviously personal pic we would've never seen otherwise!

I'm sorry are they joint or not, are the sharing personal or professional because at this point they seem confused

I'm salty yes the pic is cute as fuck but I. Am. Salty.

[Birdie]

Oh the rare sight of a joint selfie paired with a merch spon, with a cute obviously personal pic we would've never seen otherwise!

I'm sorry are they joint or not, are the sharing personal or professional because at this point they seem confused

I'm salty yes the pic is cute as fuck but I. Am. Salty.

This is where I'm at. Everything just feels pretty calculated lately and I just can't enjoy it. And honestly... a cute domestic picture with a merch link attached is a bit tacky considering all the talk about keeping their relationship private and not being a joint brand anymore. I guess that's only true until they have something to sell then.

(Yes, of course it's their business what they want to share publicly and when but I'm gonna be cynical when they only decide to share in order to sell merch.)

[parallel]

Didn't Dan say he didn't want to monetise his and Phil's relationship? :/

So 1/3 of the joint selfies we've had this year were for merch promo? Ok then.

It's not even that I need Dan and Phil to pretend that they care about us as an audience and that they want to give us joint content. I just don't want them to treat us like we're stupid children who can't tell what's going on. They know that we want joint content (or, well, other people do—I don't personally care that much) so they give us joint content but only for the purpose of making sales, and expect us to gobble it up.

If you don't want to make joint content, then don't. Don't grudgingly release joint content to make a quick buck out of your adoring audience who you rely upon to buy anything and everything you put on sale.

Honestly, I didn't care that much about the mukbang situation (although I didn't watch the liveshow), but the fact that it's been followed up by this... I dunno. It's just irritating.

[obsessivelymoody]

So if any phandom creators on here or lurking don't know already, PhandomGives has launched creator sign-ups for another round of commissions! Commissions will be done via donation to DKMS for Phil's 33rd birthday drive, and we welcome any phandom fanworks creators! The post below has more information

[spaceguitar]

I am... frustrated & confused. Like, I don’t even want joint context That badly. Mostly I just want to see Dan, & that prospect is becoming less & less likely. But I am frustrated at the clusterfuck that was Phil’s recent live show, & the lack of tact with the delivery of that news, because damn it I would have loved a mukbang. He probably just should not have said anything about it lol.
Finally, I’m frustrated at how everything just goes back to normal after people have been upset at dnp. Why do I see the same twitter accounts that were complaining suddenly buying merch just to get a Christmas card? Like... if you are frustrated, maybe make a point of that by not buying their products? Just a thought?

[spaceguitar]

I don’t like the ‘just get over it’ sentiment coming from a part of the fandom. I also don’t like the fact that the people who are actually upset are starting to settle for less & less.
Like, a joint selfie with signatures that you can get if you spend money? How does that hold a candle to an unprompted selfie on one of their social media platforms?
I don’t particularly care about a joint selfie, but it really does feel like they dgaf that people are upset & are instead using it to their advantage to make $$$

[alittledizzy]

[Megancita75]

"Fomosexual" is my favorite! I wish he'd been confident enough to tweet that one.

[Tiredone98]

made an acct just to say this. I’ve been a pretty huge fan since 2014/ have occasionally looked at IDB before. I know people need to make money to live but the ratio of merch to content from dan leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. Him dipping out is one thing, but he isn’t dipping out- he’s still selling a LOT of merchandise to us. Just feels crummy.

[obsessivelymoody]

made an acct just to say this. I’ve been a pretty huge fan since 2014/ have occasionally looked at IDB before. I know people need to make money to live but the ratio of merch to content from dan leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. Him dipping out is one thing, but he isn’t dipping out- he’s still selling a LOT of merchandise to us. Just feels crummy.

But Dan's said he's wanted to do this for ages, and now he's put out all the stuff he thinks represents him and his brand, he's stopping for now. Not to mention, IRL is part of his job. It's his business (and Phil's and Martyn's). I want more videos from him and more communication as much as anyone else, but no one is forcing anyone to buy the merch they put out, and we know Dan isn't just working on merch and trying to find new ways for us to fling cash at him.

[Afunnyworld]

I haven't really been very active in the Phandom in the past few months (mostly because there wasn't really much happening). My general feelings toward this are in line with the annoyance of many others, but also somewhat subdued because of my detachment from the day to day excitement and predictions within the Phandom.
Even though I think the end result of what Dan and Phil are doing w/ their content, communication, and merch is pretty shitty, I actually strongly disagree with the sentiment that they have really bad intentions. I just can't believe that they hate the phandom and want to leech money from people, and are calculating how to cause the most grief in the subtlest ways in order to get the most advantage.
They're probably just trying to keep their business afloat, and it might be hard to come to terms with dismantling the businesses they worked to build up for years. The consequences of pulling back from releasing any joint content is their responsibility of course, and I agree that they really should give direct communication, whether the news is good or bad, and that they should figure out what their actual goals are. I just don't think they're being intentionally malicious.

[spaceguitar]

I haven't really been very active in the Phandom in the past few months (mostly because there wasn't really much happening). My general feelings toward this are in line with the annoyance of many others, but also somewhat subdued because of my detachment from the day to day excitement and predictions within the Phandom.
Even though I think the end result of what Dan and Phil are doing w/ their content, communication, and merch is pretty shitty, I actually strongly disagree with the sentiment that they have really bad intentions. I just can't believe that they hate the phandom and want to leech money from people, and are calculating how to cause the most grief in the subtlest ways in order to get the most advantage.
They're probably just trying to keep their business afloat, and it might be hard to come to terms with dismantling the businesses they worked to build up for years. The consequences of pulling back from releasing any joint content is their responsibility of course, and I agree that they really should give direct communication, whether the news is good or bad, and that they should figure out what their actual goals are. I just don't think they're being intentionally malicious.

I think you are right. I am not totally sure how that affects how I feel. It sucks I guess to know that there is a large divide between them & us, & that the days of more direct communication do not seem to be coming back. I want a Dan live show

[Susanisnotafish]

Sorry to have to ask, but where is the picture on the right from?

[blahblahblah8]

Sorry to have to ask, but where is the picture on the right from?

DNPshop was offering the Christmas sweaters with the Christmas card from last year and now they are offering them with this updated Christmas card. I'm guessing they ran out of the old ones. I think a newsletter was sent out about it and they tweeted a pic of the card on inrlmerch's twitter.

[flarequake]

For some reason despite days of back pain and tireds, and being half-zonked on codeine yesterday, I’m awake at this time, and though I thought initially I was ‘meh, mukbang, I’d realised no joint stuff, probably, and forgotten mostly anyway’, though I was missing Dan a bit, boy I feel crappy about all this bad timing of how/what/when they tell us combined with ‘but we can still do a bit of joint merch with a cute photo, lol’.

I can only hope they are indeed not being cynical spoilt bastards, though it’s a shame enough if they’re also just this clueless, cos yikes when you’ve liked someone for long enough, it’s a crappy feeling. I could do without so much thinking about it, but that’s how it works, think through/somehow deal with the sadness until it calms down again. It’s also so frustrating that we can’t really get the message through or really know that they’d listen anyway. I don’t blame whoever apparently emailed their management cos it’s crossed my mind before, they need to be told somehow.

Dream Phil from the other night telling me sadly how he’d fallen off my sofa in his sleep and broken my camera (and bonked his nose on the way down) was a sweet guy. Bleh

[Susanisnotafish]

Phil’s COTY vid is almost to 4M.

[Birdie]

But Dan's said he's wanted to do this for ages, and now he's put out all the stuff he thinks represents him and his brand, he's stopping for now. Not to mention, IRL is part of his job. It's his business (and Phil's and Martyn's). I want more videos from him and more communication as much as anyone else, but no one is forcing anyone to buy the merch they put out, and we know Dan isn't just working on merch and trying to find new ways for us to fling cash at him.

I think a lot of us just aren't sure we truly know this anymore and that's the whole point.

Also I think we need to stop pretending like Dan is some kind of fashion designer. He's not. I don't want to be mean but he slapped some words on some black clothing and is selling said clothing for way too much money lately. (I'm also not sure if he did the designs himself or if he told a designer about his ideas and they did the designs, does anyone know?) If Dan wanted to branch out into fashion design I'd wish him all the best but that's not what his merch is, it's still very much a merch collection connected to his Youtube brand and non-existent content.

My main problem with all of this, like I said earlier, is that Dan can't have it both ways but he's trying. He wants to distance himself from his old branding (and audience) and has wanted to do so ever since his "rebranding". He wants to be private and silent on social media and not engage with his old fanbase. He wants time to put into new projects he's excited about. And all of that's fine. But if he choses that path he can't come back to milk the old fanbase he's trying to shrug off for more money along the way by suspiciously only being active on social media when he's got something to sell.

I'm 100% sure all of this wouldn't be happening right now if Dan had said "Hey, I'm working on a big project so I won't be as active on Youtube and social media, I don't know when this will be done, see ya." Because in the end it all comes down to his lack of communication with the audience he expects to support him and that's what people have been saying for an entire year now.

In the end we really shouldn't kid ourselves. They're not our internet friends, they're business men and making a coin comes first and that's fine, this is their career. I love my job but I'm not doing it for fun either, I'm doing it to earn money and so do they on a way bigger scale and that's also fine. So all I'm asking of them is to treat their audience with a little respect. And especially Dan is not doing that right now at all.

[nephilimcat]

Also I think we need to stop pretending like Dan is some kind of fashion designer. He's not. I don't want to be mean but he slapped some words on some black clothing and is selling said clothing for way too much money lately. (I'm also not sure if he did the designs himself or if he told a designer about his ideas and they did the designs, does anyone know?) If Dan wanted to branch out into fashion design I'd wish him all the best but that's not what his merch is, it's still very much a merch collection connected to his Youtube brand and non-existent content.

My main problem with all of this, like I said earlier, is that Dan can't have it both ways but he's trying. He wants to distance himself from his old branding (and audience) and has wanted to do so ever since his "rebranding". He wants to be private and silent on social media and not engage with his old fanbase. He wants time to put into new projects he's excited about. And all of that's fine. But if he choses that path he can't come back to milk the old fanbase he's trying to shrug off for more money along the way by suspiciously only being active on social media when he's got something to sell.

I'm 100% sure all of this wouldn't be happening right now if Dan had said "Hey, I'm working on a big project so I won't be as active on Youtube and social media, I don't know when this will be done, see ya." Because in the end it all comes down to his lack of communication with the audience he expects to support him and that's what people have been saying for an entire year now.

In the end we really shouldn't kid ourselves. They're not our internet friends, they're business men and making a coin comes first and that's fine, this is their career. I love my job but I'm not doing it for fun either, I'm doing it to earn money and so do they on a way bigger scale and that's also fine. So all I'm asking of them is to treat their audience with a little respect. And especially Dan is not doing that right now at all.

This. I must say, I visit this forum semi-regularly these days not because I still consider myself a fan but because I want to know if anything interesting happens, for old times sake, I guess. I still watch Phil's videos if they interest me but I don't follow either of them on social media anymore. I still have a fondness for the time I was very invested in them and I do wish them happiness.

That being said, the merch thing and lack of communication really angers me. It's not like they aren't doing well financially at the moment and desperately need Dan's merch sales to get by. They are rich. If either of them or both want to take a break, they can do that without losing all their money. And when they announced exactly that and didn't know when they'd return, I thought that was fine because everyone needs a break sometimes and Dan and Phil were lucky enough to be able to afford it. But then Dan disappeared only to return very briefly and disappear once again while Phil continued making his content and began speaking for them both (though he didn't explain much either). And that's the problem.

I really cannot deal with a rich person like Dan continuing to make merch when he doesn't produce content and barely interacts with his audience. Either he doesn't want that audience anymore and stops making merch and gets on with his life in whatever way he wants. Or he does want to keep his audience, in which case he has to communicate properly. And that doesn't mean sharing his private life, a simple, "I don't know what I'm doing right now, please have patience with me as I figure it out" or "Due to personal reasons I am on an extended break and cannot say when it will be over" or "I am working on a big project but I cannot give you any details right now". Stuff like that. And a break, no matter the reason, means no merch drops either. If there's no content, there shouldn't be merch. It also doesn't mean coming back for one video and marketing it as the big return to the Internet only to disappear once more without explanation. I understand that maybe he doesn't know or thought he would come back and wasn't ready but he needs to address that. He can tell people he doesn't know what he wants. He can tell people he isn't ready. But continuing to milk his fanbase without saying anything is just not how you act. It's your job, Daniel. Act like a professional about it!

[liola]

But Dan's said he's wanted to do this for ages, and now he's put out all the stuff he thinks represents him and his brand, he's stopping for now. Not to mention, IRL is part of his job. It's his business (and Phil's and Martyn's). I want more videos from him and more communication as much as anyone else, but no one is forcing anyone to buy the merch they put out, and we know Dan isn't just working on merch and trying to find new ways for us to fling cash at him.

Just because Dan says he's wanted to do so for ages doesn't mean that he can't realize it's a bad move though? Because he did realise, that's why he posted about it after the last merch drop, but he again waited the last possible minute to do so instead of seeing the complains of the last couple of drops and address it then. He just waited so that he could say, I'm done, see, last one, i'm done, you can't complain any more!!

And like, I've always been on team yay merch, it can be separate from content, it's their business that also pays the salary of their employees but there's a balance and he's dipped into the crash grab feeling at the moment, especially when he never interacted except right before a merch drop. It doesn't mean that is absolutely what he wanted to do, but that's what it looks and feels like and worse, he didn't address it. That's the communication issue here. If he distances himself from his brand and then uses the same to sell merch to the same audience that he's ignoring.. it looks bad, plain and simple, it would be like Anthony Padilla suddenly selling merch with smosh quotes when he distanced himself from it

I haven't really been very active in the Phandom in the past few months (mostly because there wasn't really much happening). My general feelings toward this are in line with the annoyance of many others, but also somewhat subdued because of my detachment from the day to day excitement and predictions within the Phandom.
Even though I think the end result of what Dan and Phil are doing w/ their content, communication, and merch is pretty shitty, I actually strongly disagree with the sentiment that they have really bad intentions. I just can't believe that they hate the phandom and want to leech money from people, and are calculating how to cause the most grief in the subtlest ways in order to get the most advantage.
They're probably just trying to keep their business afloat, and it might be hard to come to terms with dismantling the businesses they worked to build up for years. The consequences of pulling back from releasing any joint content is their responsibility of course, and I agree that they really should give direct communication, whether the news is good or bad, and that they should figure out what their actual goals are. I just don't think they're being intentionally malicious.

I don't think anyone is actually saying they're horrible people who only care about the money though? I mean, they do care about the money god I hope so if they're smart it sucks but money makes the world go round etc etc. I don't think they're terrible people, and I doubt anyone that is still here caring and engaging with this argument thinks so.

It's not a black and white issue, they're humans and they fuck up and it's good that we let them know! So they can do better, if they want to succeed. If not, good riddance, their choice, all the luck to them!

Some people expect something from them in terms of activism and let them know. Some people except from them something in terms of equality rights and let them know. I care about all of those things and also a good business behaviour, the right kind of strategy and communication for digital creators with their history and the kind of engaged audience that they have, which is NOT common, and I let them know. That's it. This is about them as professionals, not as humans, I don't know them personally, all I know is what they portray for us to see, they could be animal killing bastards in their private lives or philanthropists who donate every single cent of their merch to the most amazing underrated charities, I don't know that, all I know is what I see and what I see right now kind of sucks, in terms of the dual relationship with the audience and in terms of business behaviour.


And yes I'm still saying them as in DanAndPhil because as long as they use their joint merch shop to sell joint christmas sweaters combined with joint christmas cards while also making joint christmas messages to their joint audience, they can say whatever they want, they have a joint Branding and they're doing shit at portraying it in a different way.

[glitterintheair]

My main problem with all of this, like I said earlier, is that Dan can't have it both ways but he's trying. He wants to distance himself from his old branding (and audience) and has wanted to do so ever since his "rebranding". He wants to be private and silent on social media and not engage with his old fanbase. He wants time to put into new projects he's excited about. And all of that's fine. But if he choses that path he can't come back to milk the old fanbase he's trying to shrug off for more money along the way by suspiciously only being active on social media when he's got something to sell.

Remember when he set up a tumblr queue after being silent for only god’s knows how long before launching merch? And how he did that twice? As if being active on tumblr can excuse another merch drop (but then again we’re at the point where we consider twitter likes actual content, so..)

I'm 100% sure all of this wouldn't be happening right now if Dan had said "Hey, I'm working on a big project so I won't be as active on Youtube and social media, I don't know when this will be done, see ya." Because in the end it all comes down to his lack of communication with the audience he expects to support him and that's what people have been saying for an entire year now.

This. Also I am concerned about the fact that he had originally planned to announce his new project out of nowhere, to pull a Beyoncè. This fandom never reacts well to those things so I am not sure why he wanted to do that.