Dan & Phil Part 92: japhan 2.0

[liola]

Yeah I don't know how he thinks he can drop a project out of nowhere and have the excitrf audience react to it that he's probably hoping for when he's basically disappeared for a year.

Also you'd think they learned from tabinof that it's a bad idea but eh

[madzilla84]

I think that’s actually the saddest part about all this, for me - not just the loss of the joint content itself, sad as that is, but the loss of the connection we had. (I’m talking about Dan really as I think Phil’s still doing a great job with that, with his liveshows, member messages, tweets, videos etc. As much of a duo as they were, I don’t expect him to speak on Dan’s behalf and feel kind of bad that he seems to have to do all the joint stuff nowadays.) I know we aren’t friends obviously, but he said in his BBC interview this year that his audience *does* know him, but do we, any more? After BIG I understood why he took a break for the first half of the year, and was happy to see him around. He even had a whole line of ‘back from the dead’/‘new chapter’ merch, after which he - promptly disappeared again, except for the merch releases. (Which I admit I was glad for because at least it meant we’d hear from him and see some new pics. Without the merch, will we hear from him at all?) I don’t even mind whether he makes videos or not - if he’s pursuing something new or taking a career break that’s totally cool, good for him, but as others have said - I thought his audience meant more to him than this. (Many people say it does, but - based on what?) I *really* don’t like thinking badly of him like this, it really gets me down, honestly. I hate feeling disappointed in him. But - it’s been a whole year. Is it likely to change? Especially when you consider he has a big audience that really love him and will support whatever he does, it just seems - I dunno. I don’t know any other creators who just dip like this, even if they’re not making anything new at the time.

When he said ‘you can all fuck off and leave me alone’ at the end of BIG he really meant it, huh.

[flarequake]

It’s good pointing out the difference between them doing something distasteful like this and being bad people, as liola did because part of my feeling sad has been thinking of them as maybe being uncaring sh*ts rather than business-minded, etc, though putting the money first while also reducing connection and prompt, clear honesty with the audience is plenty crap enough.

That lack of connection with Dan is one of the saddest things and I also miss his content, though happy for whatever he’s doing, needs, etc. He said he liked talking to us and doing liveshows - was he now lying about that the whole time too? I don’t think so. I can’t believe the times either of them said something that seemed genuine has now been superseded by a different meaning. Dan’s bit at the end of the Tabinof audiobook is the loveliest thing, I know, I listened to that whole book about ten times across many tube journeys.

What changed? He said he stopped doing weekly liveshows in case he wasn’t up for it every week, or maybe he was planning to phase them out. Maybe he found the break far more relaxing and liked it without an audience. If it were me, I would have done, anxiety has always ruined things and made them very hard to go back to. I hadn’t really thought he was actively trying to shed the audience, I thought he needed a break and would want us to watch, or maybe read, the new project when it’s ready. Obviously, as he hasn’t said much, we don’t know all his reasons.

Even before BIG dropped I started to feel fed up with the long wait, though it took until about 4 months in, and I started to think of ‘giving the people want they want’ from ii as being now followed by ‘well, hope you’re happy now, bye’. I’ve watched BIG eight times and that last moment surprises me each time. It sticks out to me as an awful way to end it, it isn’t clear to me if he really meant ‘I’ve got this info out there at last, and now I want to go so don’t bother me’

[stufflizloves]

But Dan's said he's wanted to do this for ages, and now he's put out all the stuff he thinks represents him and his brand, he's stopping for now. Not to mention, IRL is part of his job. It's his business (and Phil's and Martyn's). I want more videos from him and more communication as much as anyone else, but no one is forcing anyone to buy the merch they put out, and we know Dan isn't just working on merch and trying to find new ways for us to fling cash at him.

My main problem with all of this, like I said earlier, is that Dan can't have it both ways but he's trying. He wants to distance himself from his old branding (and audience) and has wanted to do so ever since his "rebranding". He wants to be private and silent on social media and not engage with his old fanbase. He wants time to put into new projects he's excited about. And all of that's fine. But if he choses that path he can't come back to milk the old fanbase he's trying to shrug off for more money along the way by suspiciously only being active on social media when he's got something to sell.

I'm 100% sure all of this wouldn't be happening right now if Dan had said "Hey, I'm working on a big project so I won't be as active on Youtube and social media, I don't know when this will be done, see ya." Because in the end it all comes down to his lack of communication with the audience he expects to support him and that's what people have been saying for an entire year now.

respectfully, i just don’t agree with this? it might have been true pre-merch drop, but Dans been engaged on twitter since halloween (and usually dialogues back and forth after he tweets) on average every few days since Halloween. Perhaps the istastories haven’t been FLOODED with content but Japan very much did happen. For two weeks, he chose to share something with us that was personal and had nothing to do with merch—and i don’t think it’s fair to totally negate that? again, not just attacking your perspective at all, but i see a lot of similar opinions and wanted to voice the minority. just because you aren’t getting the content in the format you want to be, doesn’t mean he’s isnt providing content. just because he’s choosing not to do live shows (and phil is, really that what it seems to come down to—phil is doing live shows and youtube videos.)

anyway. do i miss both of them together? yes. do i miss dans pre-tour solo waffly ass live shows? ...yes? (actually i really don’t. they always, always gave me anxiety) do i think it’s their prerogative to work at being seen as individuals and not selling their relationship? yes. do you have to buy merch? no. i guess for me it’s that simple. (but also everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not trying to force it on anyone.)

[glitterintheair]

anyway. do i miss both of them together? yes. do i miss dans pre-tour solo waffly ass live shows? ...yes? (actually i really don’t. they always, always gave me anxiety) do i think it’s their prerogative to work at being seen as individuals and not selling their relationship? yes. do you have to buy merch? no. i guess for me it’s that simple. (but also everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not trying to force it on anyone.)

They *are* selling their relationship, though. They want to be seen as individuals at work until they have merch to sell - bts vids of their merch photoshoots, joint Christmas cards, joint holiday messages, joint shop for the festivities. If they want to be seen as individual creators, why are they still doing that? That’s a rethoric question because I think we all know the answer.

[sentinel]

Y'all acting like someone is forcing you at gunpoint to buy merch. Vote with your wallets. Show them that misleading you leads to decreased sales and that you won't support them if they won't treat you with respect. No one is making you click "Place Order" on merch made by people who have put out a single video in a 2 years span. No one is making you click "Buy now" on merch made by someone who you think makes uninspired content.

[liola]

I'm sorry are we just not allowed to express an opinion and being critical? No one is saying they're forcing to buy we're jsut saying they're using a bit of misleading tactics or at the very least choose to not deliver certain things until it's convenience to them. We're expressing dissatisfaction, that's how it works?

(I didn't buy any merch this round, mostly because nothing was really my thing, and I also have basically never bought dan's merch because i just don't like it. Does that make me more rightful to express a critique than someone who did buy it or not?)

[glitterintheair]

Y'all acting like someone is forcing you at gunpoint to buy merch. Vote with your wallets. Show them that misleading you leads to decreased sales and that you won't support them if they won't treat you with respect. No one is making you click "Place Order" on merch made by people who have put out a single video in a 2 years span. No one is making you click "Buy now" on merch made by someone who you think makes uninspired content.

Well I am definitely one of those who votes with their wallet because I am currently not buying their merch and don’t intend to if things keep being like this. However that doesn’t mean I am not allowed to express critical thoughts anyway because I see people saying that dnp want to stop being a duo because they want to be seen as separate when they sure don’t mind to be seen together when they want us to buy things. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[stufflizloves]

anyway. do i miss both of them together? yes. do i miss dans pre-tour solo waffly ass live shows? ...yes? (actually i really don’t. they always, always gave me anxiety) do i think it’s their prerogative to work at being seen as individuals and not selling their relationship? yes. do you have to buy merch? no. i guess for me it’s that simple. (but also everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not trying to force it on anyone.)

They *are* selling their relationship, though. They want to be seen as individuals at work until they have merch to sell - bts vids of their merch photoshoots, joint Christmas cards, joint holiday messages, joint shop for the festivities. If they want to be seen as individual creators, why are they still doing that? That’s a rethoric question because I think we all know the answer.

to me, it’s more nuanced than that but maybe i’m just more naive? they own the business together (with martin. maybe that would help, stick martin in those pictures.) i think they can still want to make individual content and yet know that their audiences overlap (or, rather, the venn diagram is a circle) and to maximize sales because they own a business, they combine their shops around the busiest shopping season to encourage people to buy more. that’s...capitalism? i’m not mad at it. i haven’t bought merch, and i do enjoy behind the scenes videos. i don’t feel manipulated because i haven’t felt the need to buy anything? but...they own the business. that employs multiple people, not just dan and phil.

again, i’m not trying to fight. everyone is absolutely allowed to have their own opinion, and be critical of them. i often don’t think they make the best communications either. but at the heart of this, i think it’s frustration over merch and dan has already said he won’t be doing anymore. it feels a little bit like a moot point.

[flarequake]

Merch is part of it, but it’s not all of it - communication is still a large part of it. It can be capitalism and still be kinda gross. A lot of capitalism is these days.

[glitterintheair]

to me, it’s more nuanced than that but maybe i’m just more naive? they own the business together (with martin. maybe that would help, stick martin in those pictures.) i think they can still want to make individual content and yet know that their audiences overlap (or, rather, the venn diagram is a circle) and to maximize sales because they own a business, they combine their shops around the busiest shopping season to encourage people to buy more. that’s...capitalism? i’m not mad at it. i haven’t bought merch, and i do enjoy behind the scenes videos. i don’t feel manipulated because i haven’t felt the need to buy anything? but...they own the business. that employs multiple people, not just dan and phil.

again, i’m not trying to fight. everyone is absolutely allowed to have their own opinion, and be critical of them. i often don’t think they make the best communications either. but at the heart of this, i think it’s frustration over merch and dan has already said he won’t be doing anymore. it feels a little bit like a moot point.

See, I don't think that's the case, though. I, for one, am frustrated because I miss joint content and I am trying to make peace with its death but at the same time I see Dan and Phil releasing cute selfies and of all that in the name of capitalism. Which, okay, fine, actually I applaud them from a business' perspective because that's a good move, but from a fan's perspective not so much? I mean, we can't see them in the same frame together anymore, whether it's in a video or lbr, a picture on instagram, because they're separate creators now, they want to protect their relationship etc but suddenly there they are together again when it's about selling stuff. That's what I have a problem with.

... I'd definitely buy Martyn's merch tho.

[TinkerTaylor]

Phil’s COTY vid is almost to 4M.

Thank you for posting this. I just checked and it is officially over the 4 million mark!

[alittledizzy]

[flarequake]

Cheeky git He’s just there for the silliness and the abs.

[parallel]

Y'all acting like someone is forcing you at gunpoint to buy merch. Vote with your wallets. Show them that misleading you leads to decreased sales and that you won't support them if they won't treat you with respect. No one is making you click "Place Order" on merch made by people who have put out a single video in a 2 years span. No one is making you click "Buy now" on merch made by someone who you think makes uninspired content.

I mean, you can make this argument for almost anything. "If you think this YouTuber is problematic, just don't subscribe to them" or whatever. Just because you don't actively encourage the behaviour, does not mean the behaviour is immune to criticism. You are allowed to not positively engage with something you disapprove of whilst also criticising it for its faults.

[itasca00]

The 2019 Dan and Phil Survey results are here! Go check them out!

[Amiaw]

dnp are at Cornelia’s show

[flarequake]

Oh, they’ve been found. Very cute, all looking good. I hope they’re enjoying it, and others who are there.

The survey’s very interesting. A few thoughts

Amazing to see such a lower number of participants compared to 33,003 in 2015. Also the huge turnover, loads hadn’t taken the survey before, that was also the case in a previous year if not both. And still way more finding them via Dan and enjoying gaming and joint content most. ‘Yikes forever’ as Little Misfortune would say cos it’s a bit of a shame for those preferences now I guess, but what can we do.

[alittledizzy]

Oh, they’ve been found. Very cute, all looking good. I hope they’re enjoying it, and others who are there.

I'm cackling at Dan telling the fan they look drunk. (According to the other tweets they are, in fact, drunk, so it's not like he was wrong.)

The survey’s very interesting. A few thoughts

Amazing to see such a lower number of participants compared to 33,003 in 2015. Also the huge turnover, loads hadn’t taken the survey before, that was also the case in a previous year if not both. And still way more finding them via Dan and enjoying gaming and joint content most. ‘Yikes forever’ as Little Misfortune would say cos it’s a bit of a shame for those preferences now I guess, but what can we do.

Part of that is the core fandom growing smaller and part is just losing the support/networking of some major fandom outlets that used to signal boost us heavily. For example, in the past we had that one youtube channel with over 100k subs posting a video to alert people to take the survey for us, but we couldn't manage that again.

[flarequake]

Ah, I see, interesting to know some details. Yeah, I saw the mention of drunkenness

[madzilla84]

I’m sure that’s the same person who won one of the video messages. Some people get all the luck!! I’m not jealous, not at all.

No, but it’s so lovely they went along, and they look happy. Such a supportive family.

[rizzo]

Oh wow. I'm oddly surprised they're at the show? That's so sweet. :')

I also really hope they're watching from some hidden-away, backstage-type area throughout... for Cornelia's sake.

[Templeofshame]

Oh wow. I'm oddly surprised they're at the show? That's so sweet. :')

I also really hope they're watching from some hidden-away, backstage-type area throughout... for Cornelia's sake.

The fan's Twitter claims she's a few people away from them, so it sounds like they're probably not hidden/backstage.

[rizzo]

Oh wow. I'm oddly surprised they're at the show? That's so sweet. :')

I also really hope they're watching from some hidden-away, backstage-type area throughout... for Cornelia's sake.

The fan's Twitter claims she's a few people away from them, so it sounds like they're probably not hidden/backstage.

[Ataraxia25]

They're gone, they left as soon as Cornelia said she was done. And they were near the door apparently.